Six months ago, Kyley lost one of her most intimate friendships, when her best friend and business partner abruptly walked away. It’s been rouuuuuugh. We unpack what the hell happened, how to navigate heartbreak, and how to let it change you
Six months ago, Kyley lost one of her most intimate friendships, when her best friend and business partner abruptly walked away. It’s been rouuuuuugh. We unpack what the hell happened, how to navigate heartbreak, and how to let it change you
Free Workshop- Loving Ourselves into Power https://www.federicopetrelli.com/workshop
ALCHEMY - https://www.kyleycaldwell.com/alchemy
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Kyley's free mini-course
[00:00:00]
Kyley: Hello everybody. It's Kyley.
Eva: And it's Eva. Welcome to the morning edition of Hello Universe.
Kyley: Sleeping with our caffeine. I actually really love our early morning
Eva: me too. And there's no literally no one else. I would wake up at six 30 in the morning for while I'm bleeding, by the way, you know, like to, to have these like it's just, I must love this show and you so much. 'cause like as, as much as I hate, you know, waking up early, I'm like, I actually so look forward to our conversation.
So yay us.
Kyley: [00:01:00] Late yes. And also I have the best days after like talking to you, starting the day. It's like better than working out first thing in the morning. It's like. I just have the best
Eva: best serotonin boost. Yeah, so you guys hear that audience. You should also join us here in the mornings and
Kyley: Yes. Everybody will say you're stupidly early. Um, also I'm already delaying because this is a big juicy vulnerable episode and like, let's just keep talking about waking up early for the next hour.
Bye everybody. Bye.
Eva: not what the people are here for. They want the juice. They want the deets.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, you've seen the title of the episode, so I'm sure hot goss coming in, um, but before we get to the gossip, uh, and the tea, um, Eva, let's crack it in your world.
Eva: cracking in my world. That's a good question. I will talk about my work world. We've got [00:02:00] loving ourselves into power, which is a six week group program that I run with my dear friend Federico. And we're running a free workshop. This is actually inspired by Kyley, our business maven. And it's gonna be Amazing.
I think we're taking some of the, some of the pieces from the course, basically one of the pieces that I think has been the most transformational for me in learning how to love myself on fucking conditionally, where I realized like nothing needs to be rejected. I don't need to be afraid of myself.
Everything is welcomed and it doesn't make me a sociopath. It actually makes me more available for life and love. And like, this is the kind of Deep, life changing, profound self love that is eternal that, um, we really, that we're talking about when we talk about, like, loving ourselves into power. So, I don't know, if you are someone who, like me previously, has really struggled with the guilt and the [00:03:00] condemnation and the shame and the self judgment and the overthinking because you don't trust yourself and all of that stuff, that really is a self love.
thing. And if you want support with that, come join us at our free workshop. June 4th and it's free y'all. It's going to be magical.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I would add, I think if you're the kind of person who, because we've talked before how sometimes it can be tricky to diagnose that what you need is self love, right? That that's the missing ingredient. And I would add, if you're on, if you're like, if you're curious, if you're curious, but not sure, um, if you have a lot of that, like loud inner, if your monologue, inner monologue a lot of inner criticism and you kind of struggle to.
Turn it off or turn the volume down on it, and you generally have that feeling of, you know, ease or relief that's around the corner. So there's a lot of like looking for something, looking for [00:04:00] something. I think those are two ways, at least I myself have most profoundly, like the more I love myself, the, the, the quieter those things get.
Eva: Yes. Yes, exactly. Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned this. Yes. Can I, and I want to add one more thing because this was actually an experience that I had recently too. And because The course is called loving ourselves into power because this is work that is eternal that Federico and I also continue to dive deeper into and a way that I was seeing myself loving myself into power was noticing where I was also like feeling like I couldn't take up space, which was like an old thing that I thought had gone away.
And then, you know, sometimes it like rears its ugly head when you up level in your life or, or you're in a more vulnerable situation. And it was like. basically, if you feel like you can't advocate for your needs, if you make yourself small, if you people please, if you are contorting yourself in any way, because you feel essentially like you need love or you're afraid of losing love or, um, [00:05:00] and it's like, it feels disingenuous and you like, can't stand it.
And it feels icky, but also like you're doing it because you're trying to harness your own safety because that's how we feel safe. Um, that's also a self love thing. So yeah, it's really tricky. It's, it's cool to see what can happen when we. When we have an embodied sense of self-love how that radiates out to like every aspect of our life.
Yay. And I'm so excited. I'm getting jazz talking about it. So yes, come join us. It's gonna be medicine and we love you
Kyley: Yay.
Eva: All right, Kyley, why don't you tell our dear friends you got cooking? Mm-Hmm
Kyley: Okay, I finally have build out this thing I've been wanting to do for a long time, which is a resource library. Um, uh, normally I do all sorts of free things and then I immediately just like toss them into the compost bin. But I've actually been like, collecting them. And anyway, so I have a resource library of Free shit that I have done of really cool, powerful workshops [00:06:00] that I, that I love that made a big difference for the people who showed up and, um, and if you missed it, you can do it now.
So that feels just like personally, deeply satisfying in terms of like building the infrastructure of my business and not, and, and, and, um, And not having to always keep like reinventing the wheel, but instead building on top of things. Nervous system work, y'all. Uh, so that just feels very exciting. Um, so check out, uh, some of my recent free workshops if you miss them.
Uh, Alchemy continues to be enrolling, which is if you, if you want to transform your experience with money and safety and joy. This is, that's what this journey is about. Um, it is using money as a portal to understand all of your deeper relationships to care and safety and security and worthiness that will shift the [00:07:00] way you experience money, but it will also shift everything that you are in relationship with, including yourself, including the people in your life, um, including your dreams.
Um, and so money starts to feel safer and more joyful. As do your relationships. It's
Eva: Yep.
Kyley: efficient in that way.
Eva: Mm-Hmm?
Kyley: Um, the course. So I love that program and the people who are in it these days are just like, Oh my God, I got off a call the other day. It was actually during the call. I'm sure you have moments like this too, Eva, but I kept having moments where I got choked up at one point.
It's like these women, the current cohort is all, all women. These women are Un fucking believable. Like, holy, how did I get, how did I, I have these moments sometimes where I'm just like, I built this.
Eva: mm.
Kyley: And it's this dual, it's the same thing if you're a parent you know this feeling well because as soon as you look at your kids and you're, have this combo, [00:08:00] complete and utter humility and, and, and awe and also tremendous pride and it's both in equal measure.
And I've even talked about this on the show before but it's like, so you have this moment A couple of moments when I was in the last class that I was teaching for alchemy of like, just complete and utter awe and humility that this thing that is so beautiful exists and also being really fucking proud of it because it lives like, It bursts itself through me, much like, much like my kids.
Um, and, uh, and anyways, I, so, all that is really, feels really delicious. And, in the spirit of just throwing a million things at you all, uh, the wait list for Enter Your Billionaire is up, and that's just like, like, the most fun course to teach. So if you are a recovering people pleaser, um, go sign up for LOIP, and then after LOIP, come be in Enter Your Billionaire.
Eva: Do them in tandem.
Kyley: Yes, oh my god, actually that would be, that would be a excellent
Eva: That would be, yeah, seriously,
Kyley: That is like, I actually think you couldn't do a, I think you [00:09:00] couldn't do a better, a better pairing.
Eva: Dan, I just love this. You are on fire. I love everything that you are creating. I you feel like you just shared so many things, but I just wanted to go back and note your. Your, what did you call it? Um, your free, like,
Kyley: Oh, resource
Eva: resource library. I just love that so much because you really are a powerhouse of creation.
Like you create so many amazing things that are for free and they're so helpful. And you've sent some of these things to me and I'm just like, Oh my God, I can't believe like you made this Kyley. Anyway. Yes. People go check out all of Kyley's things. I don't know. Your creations are, I feel like you're doing the work of God, especially with this money ship, teaching money in a way that.
You know, is from a place of such healing and love. It's really important work for people out there who are struggling with their money's money shit, which is, you know, lots of [00:10:00] us.
Kyley: appreciate it. And I, it's funny in the past, it's when it comes to the resource library in the past, because I am such a, like, I always have new ideas and I use that to the point of self love. I used My inner critic. So it's like the, my inner critic and my creative drive were unintentionally wrapped around each other.
And so I would create things and I was proud of them in the moment, but then I immediately was like, well, I can do better, which is actually true, right? Because I am, because we all always like, you can always do better. You can always iterate, reiterate
Eva: And there's also a little bit of perfectionism in there, you know,
Kyley: Exactly. So it was, that's, that's where it was like this funny interwoven energy.
Cause it's like, There is one workshop will always give me an idea for another workshop. Right? And, and also my inner critic, the perfectionist was like, well, we can't share that. Like, that's dead now because we can do better as opposed to like, that was great. And also, um, [00:11:00] here's the next thing that I've made.
And just letting them coexist and letting like all the work be an ongoing evolution instead of a pursuit of a singular Perfect.
Eva: Yes. I can totally relate to that. In fact, I'll have to send you some. Anyway, that's a whole nother conversation. I want to, I want to transition into, I think a lot. I want to say for me in some ways, a long awaited episode. Um, that feels important.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, I will cry today. I'm sure I got the little box of tissues right here.
Eva: Oh, good. You came prepared. Okay.
Kyley: Oh, no, no, they just are sitting here conveniently,
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: have tea and any zoom call. That is the 1 thing I will prepare. Um, yes. So, um. Some of you know, either because you follow me on social media or you've been in spaces with me, um, [00:12:00] about six months ago, my Best friend and business partnership burst into what into sudden and dire flames, um, and instantaneous combustion.
And, um, it has been one of the most painful breakups of my life. And I am in the place now where I'm okay. And I want to share the story. Uh, in part, because. We do that on the show. We, we chronic, we chronicle the important chapters of our life and this has been a big one and a hugely spiritual expansive journey.
Um, and as I was saying just before we hit record, it sucks to have your heartbroken and you need resources and you need things to [00:13:00] lean on to get you through it. Um, and. And I hope that I can share, I hope that I can share something today that will be a resource for someone who needs it.
Eva: hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: Because if you're going through the shit, you, yeah, you need all the help you can get.
Eva: Mm hmm. Yes. And also, I think it's important for us to talk about the hard things that we're going through. Like, you know, it's, it's, that's what this show is very much about is doing our best to keep it real where we can as vulnerable as possible. It may feel and, you know, anyway, finding that balance and, um, yeah, I don't know, I, I think modeling.
Yeah, I, I know for me, I, when I listen to other people's stories, I always learn something, you know,
Kyley: Well and maybe this is telling the story out of order, but one of my kind of consistent prayers [00:14:00] throughout this, I've had a couple, but one has consistently been like, show me how this is for me. Right. Right. And this has been ugly and hard and it, I have let it be for me. And I think we always have that choice when we're going through something really painful.
Uh, and I don't want them. I don't, I don't find, I don't personally don't find it helpful. The story of like everything happens for a reason. And therefore you, because I think that can turn into the kind of gas lighting that's like, so I should be happy about it. And as I'll talk about in the episode, I think that's actually really harmful.
But, um, but
Eva: a call back to our previous episode about meaning, making meaning behind everything, which anyway, so you can go back and listen to that one too, because it's a good, they're good.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. And, um, and, um, but I do think when everything falls apart, uh, it can be [00:15:00] for you and what we do have to choose it intentionally to get to let it be is, I mean, we don't have to choose it, but I think that we, uh, are better served and we can experience deeper care in the midst of the fire.
If we can let It before us. And so I think that's also one of the things I want to talk about today is, is how, how, how you, you know, everything can catch on fire, you know, tarot, tarot tower card moment for those of you who read tarot and, and how you can, you know, not just try to survive it, but actually let it be something that transforms you and, and, and, and actually takes tremendous care of you, even as it's, you know, Hard.
Eva: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Kyley: Um, so just to give some of the just like straight logistics.
Eva: Yes, I was saying like I think background information, it will be helpful. Um, uh, again, [00:16:00] some people follow you really closely and know but some people really don't so. Context is, is important. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. So, uh, Liz was my business partner. We had a business together. We, we ran a number of group programs and had one on one clients and did retreats together. We were also Best friends in the and I use that term for a lot. I have a number like you are also my best friend, right? I have a number of best friends, but she is my best friend in the way that we talked all day every day Right, like she was like the person that I was like, oh something has happened I have to share it with this person right and and our relationship was Very intense in a way that we openly acknowledge was confusing and overwhelming to both of us.
Like it was not, it was not, you know, I have a lot of very close friendships and it had a different level of intensity, like a dialed up level of intensity in part because, [00:17:00] uh, as she once said it, she's like, remember when she was like, what a great thing to have a friendship that's an ongoing spirit, that's an ongoing daily spiritual revolution.
And that, that was really what it felt like. Well, like every day we were like, you know, being goofballs together, but also like, actively rebirthing ourselves in this, in this pretty intense process of like volleying back and forth. I don't know, spiritual shit, but like for lack of a better description. And, um, and we were really in love, you know, we had this like a really deep, it was a really deep And very transparent friendship.
I mean, then there was the other thing, right? You look at things that I do now, like, you know, enter your villain era and, you know, calling my retreats monster school and all of that in part came from or was birthed alongside this relationship that was really rooted in pretty [00:18:00] radical trend, but transparency, right?
Bye. say the thing, you know, one of the tenants of our, of our friendship, but also of the work that we taught was like, should is dead. Like you are not bound by what you think you should do. You require like their, your loyalty is to be. radically honest with yourself and, and also like say what you need and say the thing.
And, you know, um, and so it was a really transparent relationship, right. About, you know, no, I don't want to do that. Or, Oh, I feel, you know, uh, I'm putting you on a pedestal about this or right. It was, it was, it was more transparent. It was a very transparent friendship and also a lot of, um, uh, then, then it gave me a lot more.
I then brought to other friendships because I saw how other friendships I was contorting. I was asking myself to be. Like, Oh, I should respond to all these texts. And then I would feel guilty and overwhelmed by [00:19:00] responding to texts. And then it was like, Oh, actually I just get to do what I want. And all of a sudden now it's a lot easier to joyfully engage in all these different meaningful relationships.
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: anyway, so that's
Eva: Wait, can I also just, can I just add also, sorry for, um, As the, as the observer, I'm going to add the observer observation is that it was very clear to me that Liz came into your life like a fucking, like powerhouse storm of some sorts. And I mean, I'm sure it was the same, you entered her life in the same way too.
It was like this unexpected blast and the, I could, I could, you know, from what you had shared with me, I could also sense it. I could sense that in the meeting of your. two souls. I mean, I'm going to talk, you know, you talk about it very, um, using, I mean, using this language because it felt, felt very profound.
You know, it was [00:20:00] like a meeting of two souls that had a huge effect on your life essentially. And that was, and that was very apparent, I think, to everybody around you who probably, who knew you. Yeah.
Kyley: Yes. Abso fucking lutely. I mean, we kind of jokingly refer to the start of our friendship as when we crashed into each other. Right? Because there was no other context for, like, I did not know this person and I like vaguely they were like a vague internet friend and then all of a sudden she was my best friend and we were like joined at the fucking hip and yeah, felt like, yeah, like
Eva: It felt like there was something bigger happening, you know, like, it wasn't, it was like, you know, friendship, but it felt like some sort of weird spiritual life, something like maybe you two were, I don't know what you were in a past life, lives, each other, but like, you know,
Kyley: yes.
Eva: something.
Kyley: Yes, absolutely. And, and, and that was transparent. That felt very transparent to both of us. Right. That like, so there was our friendship, which was very intense and meaningful. There was our business, which was like kind of the [00:21:00] channel that we played in more than anything else. Right. It was like a thing to do.
Right. Um, and honestly, I think sometimes it was like a buffer for the intensity of our, of what we were experiencing. It was like, Oh, well, we can just have this process. Project that we're, that we're working on. Um, and, and then the third piece of it was this like charged, like, like, yeah, like spiritual activation, lightning storm.
That's we couldn't explain. I mean, we had like language for, and we had felt sense of, but it was like, you know, when we would do like magic, you know, we would hold space together for clients or whatnot. Like, What came through us felt so much bigger than either one of us, um, that that also was like very, you know, I mean, just huge, huge, huge, huge.
So yes, I mean, uh, one of the, one of the most impactful relationships I've ever had. [00:22:00] And, you know, if you refer to the beginning of your friendship as a crash, and then all of your work is about death as a portal to life, you might be unintentionally setting yourself up for, you Dun dun dun! Catastrophic explosion at the
Eva: Yes. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, there was a different kind of explosion. Yes. So why don't you tell us a little bit about. About the unfurling of this or really what we're actually what we really are calling like a breakup like,
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: that's the most I think we've said the most appropriate language for this, which maybe we can speak to that too.
Like, I would love for you to speak to that experience of like a friendship breakup, you know,
Kyley: yes. Because actually that's the reason I wanted to do this episode is that friendship breakups are I think are, are they're common and especially among women. I can't speak. I don't think it's always the same for men, um, because of the way we're socialized, but [00:23:00] I think women in particular have really, really intimate, deep relationships. And so that when they end, it's like this, and there's not an expectation, right? When you're dating someone, there's always a little bit of like, well, this might not work out. Right. And so it's devastating. It's there's a, there's a way that friendship breakups, I think often feel like, They have some element of like, this wasn't supposed to happen, or like, why did it have to go this way, or, there's a, there's a kind of confusion just about the like, need to break up in a way that I think adds a layer of complication, and I know they're really common, but there's not actually that much like, conversation about them, and, and I have had people, as I've like shared little bits and pieces of it, I've had people like, Or into my inbox of being like I also have gone like this number of stories people who are like Oh, I have gone through this.
I'm going through this now. [00:24:00] I have been through this
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: this and often with a little bit of a sense of like Isolation in the midst of it. So let's just like y'all friends are breaking up left and right and it fucking sucks But let's not pretend that it's not happening
Eva: Well, I think what you're speaking to is like, there's, there are, okay, first of all, let's just talk about how breakups in general are truly so hard. So hard. And is it okay if I start with, Speak to this. If it's not, we can, whatever we can edit. But like, I think we had talked about how, you know, you've been with Nick for a gazillion fucking years, you know, your
Kyley: Yeah. 20 years. Yeah.
Eva: years. And so, you know, from my understanding, this is probably, yeah. Like you said, your most, um, live experience of like a breakup, breakup.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like my boyfriend that I had when I was 17, like he was a great guy. I'm like great friends with his wife. Like we were like, the breakup was like, okay, bye. Right. Do you know what I mean? It was [00:25:00] not like,
Eva: Life changing. It wasn't life
Kyley: was not life changing. It was.
Eva: are, can be life fucking changing, and so, and, and God, and then I think, you know, divorce, divorce is like really difficult because you have your lives all intertwined, but, but when I'm going through a breakup, I have, it's like I'm reminded of the deep compassion for all the people who have gone through breakups because this shit is, you know, I mean, they say, you know, psychologically, it's one of the, it's up there with like one of the hardest things that you experience in life, like death, because it is a kind of death.
Right.
Kyley: Oh, absolutely.
Eva: so dysregulating and it changes your whole life and blah, blah, blah. But, but because I think romantic relationships are pedestalized as like, you know, like they're the thing we're all supposed to like, you know, couple off, couple up. And therefore there's much more dialogue around the breakup of a relation, like a romantic relationship and like, and, and no one's talking about friendships basically.
And so here we are talking about friendships.
Kyley: Yeah. And I [00:26:00] think, and I think that it can add another, it can add a layer of gaslighting like self gaslighting. Cause you're like, Basically, like, you're, you're, because there isn't as much public dialogue and as many, like, songs and all, right, about a friend breakup, uh, there's a way that I think we can, we can get, we can, you can want to minimize, so you already want to minimize it because it's so painful, and then you can all further want to minimize it because you're like, everyone else seems fine, why am, like, you know, why am I, So upset about this, this friend, this
Eva: Yeah. It's like we can't have permission to be as sad about a friendship breakup as we are about like a romantic breakup,
Kyley: Yeah, this left,
Eva: shouldn't be such a big deal, but it is equally a
Kyley: and as someone who went through two friendship breakups last year, which Jesus Christ, like I'm good for a little bit, okay? I'm good for a little bit. Two of my best friendships ended last year. Um, be a mess. Let yourself [00:27:00] be a mess. It is hard. It is really, really hard. And my other friendship that ended, someone I can, I still love tremendously.
That was a, like, more of a situation. There was a lot of long running, kind of not quite able to fully address it. So when we tried to address it had a little bit of a, of a, like, too little too late kind of, uh, eruption. Um, and, You know, maybe we will find her, find each other again. But, uh, I share that because, so one was this kind of like slow moving train.
Things with Liz was like very sudden. And so to get to some of like what happened, it was literally like, I went to bed one night with the best friend and within a week, everything had just like, it was like, I woke up to something new. Um, it was really, really sudden. And I think it was. You know, and, and I, I wanna share this story.
I wanna share my story, um, and my experience. I don't know, [00:28:00] Liz's story and Liz's experience, it's just part of what's sucked , um, as we'll discuss. Um, and so I want to be, I wanna be mindful of like, uh, of, of that, like, I don't know, I don't know what happened for her because she was unable to actually communicate with me what was happening for her.
Um, but
Eva: wait, can we, can we speak to that piece a little bit more? Because I think that's so important. Like, I didn't know if you were planning on getting more into this, but I think. Part of what made this so confusing. And I mean, I, I will, I also want to be careful. I'll use for me if it were me in my shoes. So what if I were in your shoes, basically, she.
Um, like she couldn't give you any explanation. She basically pulled arou a rug out from under you without telling you why and without communicating with you, without, [00:29:00] um, just kind of going completely
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: like there's a word, cold or like, um, there's another word for not cold, but like, ah, but do you know what I'm saying?
There's a word, there's like an official word that I'm looking for. I don't know. When someone just blanks you, I think is a saying. Yeah, go. Yeah. Kind of like
Kyley: I mean, that's not 100 percent what happened, but it's not not what happened, you know?
Eva: for me, I'm like, I'm always someone who wants to know why, right? So I, I'm over here, even I'm, you know, it's not even me, but I'm like infuriated because I'm like, why? Like, what happened? At least give me a fucking explanation, dude, you know? And so that added, I think, a huge chunk of the, all the emotional. Um, confusion and overwhelm
Kyley: So, so a thousand percent. And I, that's a thousand percent. That's been one of the sources of tremendous [00:30:00] pain in this. And so basically what happened is Liz and I did a workshop. We, you know, like, like I do all the time and. You know, Liz essentially unintentionally tripped and fell into something that was really, really hot for her, right?
So much of our work has always been about like, you go into, you go as deep as you can into the shadows and like, and, and, and love yourself there. And she touched something really, really, really hot. Um, and it just set off an explosion, whether, you know, whether it was because she couldn't face it or whether it was because I mean, my, my, I felt sense now, six months later, was she touched something really hot that was even deeper than, than we really realized in the midst of the, the workshop.
Um, and it wasn't safe to go in. And so she threw up a wall and [00:31:00] tossed me on the other side and fucking ran. She might have a different story, but again, she didn't tell it to me. And I,
Eva: Right. So, so now you, all you can do is fucking guess, you know?
Kyley: a full guest cause I know this person really, really well.
Eva: right. But what I mean is like, you don't know, like you
Kyley: Yeah. Right. And so basically within a couple of days, I mean like the next day after the workshop, she was like acting like a total fucking weirdo, which is fine. Everyone acts like a fucking weirdo. Um, but then like, Never, like never came back from it.
And within, within a couple of days sent me an email that was like, I don't want to be coaching anymore and I want to end our business. And at the time I was like, okay, whatever. We'll talk to you in a couple of days. Like, sure. Right. I was like annoyed, but I was like, okay, fine. Like, fine. Right. For two reasons.
One, because I had such deep trust in our friendship that I was [00:32:00] like, Well, fine, you can end our business. You're still my best friend. Like that will be weird and we'll figure it out, but like, fine. You're my friend first. And also like, yeah, maybe you just need to say that you're going to, maybe you need permission to leave and you don't actually want to, and we'll just talk it through and we'll get, we'll get to the, we'll get to the thing under the thing.
Cause that's what we do really well together. And like, it's fine. But in order for that to have worked, we had to be able to talk. Right. And we got on this phone and phone and it was like, The wall had already started. She'd already started building the wall. Right. And so even when we were on a call together, we were already like, far apart, far apart, far apart, um, and I also think in some ways, in retrospect, like, it's like, um, you know, if you're, if you knit something.
And you're, and you're like, and you start, you're, it's not finished, you're still in the process of it, and you pull on the thread, it's like the whole thing just has, starts to unravel, and in some [00:33:00] ways it feels, and it's, this still feels true to me, it's like, once the rupture happened, it was like, there's not, there is no, I, I felt it in my body, even before I fully understood what was happening, was like, this, the death here has to be complete. I felt it was like, whether it had to happen this way or not, I don't know. But it's like, once the death part, once the, once the death started, there was, it had to be complete. There was, there was no, like,
there's a way in which I can just feel in my own body like there was no, okay, we did, we, we killed off 80 percent and then from the 20 percent we rebuild, it's like, no, the whole thing has to die. And I hate that. It's been awful and ugly. And I have anger and resentment and all, you know, I mean, I've resolved a lot of the most active feelings, but, but, um, but I felt it even, even then that [00:34:00] first week of like, again, I didn't know it, but I can look back on things that I said to her of like, please don't do like, I think I even said, please don't just cut and run and disappear on me.
Eva: Mm-Hmm.
Kyley: Anyway, so, you know, we went through the process of like dissolving our business and doing all the administrative stuff to figure that out. And then, uh, you know, we had, we, we had like one conversation that was like us attempting to like be friends outside of the business. And it was weird and hard because You know, she, because all this was happening and because that wall was still actively, I mean, I could feel it right being built up between the two of us and her story.
I should add her story. The reason she did give was, um, that she thought we were codependent and that that there was this like deep enmeshment and that we needed space. Um, uh, and that that was like, that that was the thing that that was the thing that [00:35:00] she was reacting to. that's where I say, like, yes, and that's a lot of projection, right?
Um, specifically because, uh, there's certain, there's certainly truth in that. And also, you just have conversations, right? Like, you just talk to each other, right? So,
Eva: Or, or, or e Yes. Like, Hmm. That's, I've lost it. Even if that were true, like. Yeah, you can work it out. You can. Yeah, exactly. Like you can, you can always figure it out, but it, yeah.
Kyley: especially because one thing I know to be true about myself, and I don't think I fully claimed this, that's the point of Breakups Will Change You, is I Um, I am, like, if I love you, I love you unconditionally. Like, once you're in, you're in, right? Like, that is, for better or worse, on my part, once you're in, you're in.
And,
Eva: Well, I can say as a receiver of [00:36:00] your love, it feels, it's really nice to be loved by you in that,
Kyley: yeah. It is. You have to be a fucking dummy to run away from it.
Eva: Yeah. It is really, um, I don't know if it's like your Taurus energy or something, but it's also just like, For me, such a beautifully, such a beautiful safe, safe space. Not like in a way where I can be like, I can take advantage of you, blah, blah, blah.
But it's like to know, I mean, that's what love, that's what love is. It's unconditional. It's like, you love me or me, all of it, you know, the good, the bad, the messy, I can totally fuck up and you're not, it doesn't mean that you're not going to call me out of my shit. Um, but you love me and anyway, how,
Kyley: And I trust, and I trust that. And so I trust, like, I trust, I trust that you love me. Because I know you do. And I also trust that I love you. I trust that I trust the way that we love each other.
And because of that, [00:37:00] I trust that if there's a problem, we just fucking talk, you know, and I, you know, I'm lucky enough. I've been married for 20 years or in a relationship for 20 years, we've been married for 10. Uh, so I have, I have a lot of experience of like both my husband and I being willing to with each other.
Right. And I have, my mom in particular, is an incredible example of somebody who, Like faces her shit and changes not for people, but for herself. Right. And, um, you know, my husband's father does too. And we've had this conversation before about how our parents have modeled for us. Like life gets, you get to get better.
Life gets to get better. Um, and your relationships with people are repairable, [00:38:00] you know? Um, and
Eva: well, they're repairable when both parties are. It takes a certain something to make that true. Willingness. Willingness is like one of those. Honesty is another thing. So many, so many pieces. But, um, I thought it also speaks to, like, the long, like, I think longevity of relationships is dependent on that. It takes.
Because we will constantly change we that's that's like the complex thing, or actually I would even say the really generous thing about being in friendship with someone or any relationship with someone is saying like, I'm going to change that's inevitable. And so, in order to love me, and to be, it's a very vulnerable like, you know, are you willing to work with me as I change.
Kyley: and yes, and I think part of my feelings of betrayal was like [00:39:00] that was the patch, right? Of course you can change you can leave our business like okay, right but like but the my felt sense was because that's my model of love is like but we're in it together right and And it, and it still honestly baffles me that you would, um, not put in the effort of transparency and love with someone who loved you in good face, right?
Um, because, yeah, because I'm a great person to be, like, and I, this, this, this, this, I can say this because I walked through the fire of being abandoned and betrayed, right? I can say this now, like, It's a fucking gift. If you are in my circle of love. I did not, I did not fully know. I suspected I intellectually knew, but I didn't let it be true all the way down to my core that like, [00:40:00] wow, I'm a fucking gift.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: I can I just add, I think that's true. We're all gifts.
Kyley: yes,
Eva: are all gifts. And I'm not saying that because I don't think that you, you, you know that I'm saying that because you have, it seems like you've walked through the fire and therefore, you know, this experience, like experientially, you know, this now, not just from your mind, but it's like experientially felt and embodied.
And I think that's the truth that we're all trying to get to is like, we are all people. A gift, but many of us intellectually know it, but don't actually know it. No, I don't believe it yet.
Kyley: Don't believe it.
Eva: and you, yeah, I've seen you like, oh, I've just seen your like metamorphosis and the, that you've gone through in this journey.
I just continue all the ways that you've returned to yourself and claimed yourself. And, and I'm sure we'll maybe talk about that more. Maybe in part 2 of this episode, but, but, you [00:41:00] know. It has been some of the, you know, Caterpillar to butterfly story
Kyley: Yeah, yeah,
Eva: as breakups are that's the other thing though, by the way, breakups are so catalyzing, like they're the worst and the best.
Kyley: Yeah, I mean, I'm good. I'm good for a minute. Like, I feel like I'm good. Um, but, yeah. I mean, I just, I will share this with listeners. There was one point where I sent Eva a message. I mean, like, in the beginning. I mean, there were like two months where it was like a girl could not stop just fucking ugly crying.
And, um, and I should, I should tell the, like, linear the finish the linearity. So basically we started the process of actually dissolving the business logistics, um, and a couple of weeks in. So, and then, you know, we, like, assigned the, we had a phone call that was like, okay, this is us, like, just as friends hanging out.
And it was, it was weird. It was hard. Um, [00:42:00] and. Afterwards, I sent her a message that was like, Hey, this is weird and hard. And I'm, I'm angry. It wasn't, I didn't like, it wasn't a voice where I yelled. It was like a voice where I just said, like, I'm angry. Like, I don't like the way this is going. This is hard.
And it, it basically was what I was trying to communicate was like, this isn't the way we're doing this. So after this one conversation, I sent her a voice note that was like, Hey, this, like the way this is happening, isn't working for me. Right. Not a, like you have to stay or you can't leave our business, but just like. I'm going to communicate what I need and how I feel a tenant of our friendship and I would argue all good friendships and was like, I'm angry.
I'm hurt. Um, and I was, my intention was to open up some conversation about, like, how do we do this in a way that everybody gets what they need? And her response was, Uh, give me space. Maybe we can talk in a month, um, which is a wild response. [00:43:00] Like
Eva: I mean, okay, sorry. There's just more to say about this. I don't, I don't, I, cause like I, I've seen, I saw the whole process and I just want to, like, emphasize that what you, what and how you had expressed was like perfectly reasonable. You were essentially just
Kyley: we didn't I'm not even getting to that email that you're talking about. This was before even I wrote that email.
Eva: yes, I think I remember. Yeah, I remember. I think you had shared this with me. Well, because, because it's all the same. The whole time I felt like you were so, um, like even keeled and thoughtful, maybe, maybe to, to a fault because we do that, you know, when we're like, Oh, am I? And like, none of it was.
Reactionary. You know, it was not like you were in, it was all just like, Hey, I just, as a friend, I just wanna let you know how I'm feeling. And her response was, [00:44:00] well, I can't, like, I don't know. It was, it was a shutting down. It was just continual shutting down.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. It was like, there was no, there was no room for how, for how, for my experience, like she could, she could make zero space for what I was experiencing to her credit. never told me that what I was feeling was wrong. She just could not allow any capacity for it. Right. So it was never a conversation like, well, you shouldn't feel that way.
Right.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Or like, I'm right. You're wrong. That was less the vibe. The more the vibe was like just every single time I would communicate my experience. There was just this huge shoving off. From shore, right? Huge shoving off. And so, so that happened of like, you know, don't basically don't talk to me for a month and that was probably the most devastating moment.
That was probably the moment where the bottom completely fell out underneath me because I was like, what? Like, what is actually happening? Um, [00:45:00] and, um, And to your point, you know, look, my, my trauma response is to fawn, right? That's my go to trauma response is to fawn my, I think part of the pattern that, that this has broken for me is.
pedestalizing people that I love. Like, if I love you, I love you unconditionally. And also I was constantly putting everybody that I love a little bit on a pedestal above me, right? So again, to that idea of like a positive, helpful and unhelpful thing kind of wrapped around each other. My desire to put myself down essentially was, was wrapped around my Um, my ability to love people unconditionally.
And so I would put everybody up on a little bit of a pedestal above me, right? If I love you, you're better than me. That was just the like internal logic. And so when this happened and also like. My primary [00:46:00] wound was abandonment shit. Right. And so when this happened, I mean, I just immediately when I went into like protective mode of Liz and, um, meaning like people would ask me what was going on and I was like very protective of her and, and of her experience, which is its own kind of imbalance.
Um, and,
Eva: also just like, sorry. So common like this isn't, okay. I don't know why this is coming out, so I'm just gonna share it. This isn't exactly the same thing, but there is this sort of thing of like, okay, it's not the same thing at all, but. in a way, I also know, well, this idea of like, um, like that Stockholm syndrome thing, or like when someone, someone like abuses you, but you end up protecting the abuser.
I mean, Liz wasn't abusing you, you know what I mean? But do you know what I mean? This whole thing of like
Kyley: someone hurts you and you, especially someone, someone, if
Eva: someone you love. Yeah. Someone you
Kyley: hurts you, you look for how it must be your fault. I think that's a, and if you look, if you, if you loom down to [00:47:00] childhood, we do that as children because the alternative is to see that the adults in our life aren't trustworthy.
And that's really scary. Like your little kid psyche, it's safer for your little kid psyche to internalize that you must be the problem instead of the adults in your life. And then we just keep fucking marching on with that problem.
Eva: that, sorry, just a little plug for loving ourselves into power because like, That dynamic that you just spoke to, I'm like nodding emphatically and laughing because that has been So much of my experience, and we talked about that in life, um, because it's a story of badness. Basically, it's like, oh, I did something wrong.
And that can't be the person that I love. Like, we internalize it and make it mean something about us. And then that story anyway, just like, uh, can have a huge cataclysmic, you know. Implications on, on how it is that we respond to everybody else anyway. So yes,
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Eva: but I, but I also want to add what you were saying about [00:48:00] protecting people is it's also like, we don't want people to think poorly of the people that we love, you know, it's like, it's like, I don't want, I don't want you're protective of Liz.
Cause you're also, you don't want. I mean, it could be a couple of things. Maybe you don't want people to feel like you're talking shit or which you were not, but you were doing the opposite. You were protecting her, but it's also like, you know, you don't want your friends. Maybe because in part you're, you know, sometimes we're like, well, this person's going to come back or, you know, and like, I don't want people to think poorly of them.
And so, yeah, all these different reasons for why we
Kyley: And I don't want people to think poorly of me. Like if I actually tell you the like full story of the bullshit that he pulled and then two months later I'm like, hey, so guess who called me? Guess who I'm hanging? Right? Then you're all gonna be like, that bitch, what the
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: So I can just skip all of that, right?
By like, no, no, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. And, and again, to make it all complicated, the way that our like self loathing and our love of others is like weird and complicated [00:49:00] and meshed. I also, I still love this woman. I will love her forever and ever and ever. And God, I'm getting teared up. Who knew this would be the thing that would make me cry.
I see. The unimaginable pain that she's in right now, or at least was when this happened. I don't know what's happened since then. I know that she was in unimaginable pain when this happened, right?
I know. That she was reacting to really deep, painful wounds that had nothing to do with me. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing to do with me. Um, and I love her and I am sad for her. She's sad again. I don't know where she's at now, but like part of that protection is again, what is that like?
You know, kind of a self harm pattern, but some of that protection is also, I love this person. I actually have some pretty deep understanding of what's happening and I don't want other people to judge her because, because I want her to be okay in the end. [00:50:00] And yeah, I want her to fucking come back. I mean, even now, right.
I would like right now today for her to send an email that's like, Hey, so I was an asshole. How you doing? Right.
Eva: Yeah. Mm,
Kyley: and And actually a lot, a big part of the, uh, a big part of the journey has been actually really making peace that there is a part of me that forever will love her, that's, that just exists.
There's a part of me that forever will be like, okay, you're just going to call me, right? Then we'll be fine. You're just, you're just going to call me. And there is also a part of me that's like, fuck you.
Eva: yep. Of course, of course. And also, I think that's healthy, by the way. That's healthy in comparison to the fa
Kyley: yes, yes, yes, yes. And so, well, and I say that too, because I think for a while, the pendulum swing of confusion for me was like, that one of those had to be more true, right?
That like, either the fuck you or the I love you, that one of them was the truth and the other was wrong. And I [00:51:00] caused, I experienced a lot of suffering because I couldn't make either one go away because they are just both, they just both are true and they will actually both always be true. Right? Because that fuck you doesn't have to be an active, burning, discomfort anger.
Right? It's not, so, what I'll, I'll, it, it, One of the other, and this might be the thing that I want to talk about most in, in a, in a part two is the anger journey, because that has actually been because a big part of what I had broken is the fond response. It took months for me to even admit to myself, like actually really let myself be, it took months to even fully admit that I was angry.
And so at some point in the, like, we're not talking, you know, for six weeks kind of window or whatever, I eventually wrote it, wrote an email that was another version of that initial voice note that was basically like, I love you. I want to make this work. This is fucked up. And her response to that was [00:52:00] our friendship chapter is complete.
Maybe we'll find each other again some other time. And that was less devastating. Uh, cause I had already, I had felt it coming at that point. Right. Um, And also kind of even more insane,
Eva: Mm-Hmm?
Kyley: right? Because at this point, also, like, a lot of time, like, months have passed at this point, right? Of like, we've all been doing, we've all been feeling our feelings and doing the things.
And, um, and, um, and then there was a point where I realized, thanks to a long conversation with you, that I felt like there were all these unsaid things. Because again, I, like, that's, that's it. Like, as you might be tracking, at no point is there any kind of Kyley gets close to her conversation.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: She woke up one day. With a best friend that had seemingly lost her mind. It was gone forever The only thing offered was I think we're codependent and I'll never talking to you again
Eva: I'm like nodding or like shaking my head. 'cause I'm just like, 'cause. [00:53:00] Like, I saw the whole thing happen, like, like the fucking crazy ass train wreck that it was. And even as you say it that way, I'm like, that is, I would go fucking insane. Like no explanation. Just like, that is, that is like a, yes, I mean, I know that it was anyway, I'm just reseeing like how painful, um, that really was.
Kyley: Yeah, it was really it was really rough. It was really rough because Because I love this person, you know, and what's funny too is I love this person. And I think what this has also taught me is how much I also just trust love because even like, because for me part, I mean, there's a lot of things that were painful about it, but one part of it has always been like, whatever this is, if we just talk like there, the feeling of like, [00:54:00] there's nothing that can't be figured out.
Right. And maybe what's figured out is I love you and we have to walk away. Um, but the complete and utter unwillingness to talk. And this person knows me just as well as I know them. It's a particularly kind of painful thing to do to me. Right? Like we all have our particular, like that's a shitty thing to do to anybody.
But we all have our particular like things, right? We all have things that are like, Ooh, this is extra. This one is I'm extra sensitive and there's nobody who I spent more time unraveling my abandonment wound with than this person, right? There's no one who knew more deeply how much a girl likes fucking closure and hates loose ends, right?
There's nobody who knew more deeply how much I felt peace in talking through things. And so there [00:55:00] is a particular kind of hurt that's like you couldn't, whatever was, you couldn't figure out how to make any, like you knew, you know, like you, you, you, especially as time went on, because then the one other communication we had is that again, I was like, I have all the shit I need to say.
And actually what I most wanted to say, which is interesting. So even I had a conversation in which I realized like, Oh yeah, I have all the shit I want to say. Cause I never got to say literally anything. And, um, And so I reached out and was like, I, can we have a conversation for closure? Right. And, and then I spent a week kind of sifting through like, what is it that I even want to say?
I just knew I wanted to say something. And what was pretty cool was that what I got to was the place of realizing, Oh, what I really want to say is that I love you. You know, what I really want to say is that I love you and that will never change and it's not wrong because that is the thing I had to rescue right [00:56:00] was like you dummy who's in love with someone who's so hurt them so badly.
Um, and, uh, yeah, and I just got to this place of like, really, the thing that I most wanted to say was just I love you. Like, you know, I'm not I'm not I don't, which is different than I love you. Please don't go right. It says a totally different thing. Just the like. Just the acknowledgement of like, this is how big my love is.
And, and I have landed in the place of seeing what a superpower that is, where previously maybe I thought that was a kind of weakness, but yeah, my love is tremendous and I love you. And my love is big enough that it can hold the bullshit that you have done. There was like a kind of bigness that I was feeling in the depths of how much I love this person.
Um,
Eva: we just pause right there? I think you said something really beautiful. Really beautiful and profound. I
Kyley: yeah. Why would you leave this? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Eva: But, but to see, I mean I'm really moved by [00:57:00] how you know that you're That's a superpower and not a weakness. Cause I, yes, I mean, we had that conversation and I saw you struggle with that or, you know, just like play around with the different stories that come in with this and, and the story of like, yeah, my, you know, my SAP, am I a fool?
Am I, um, a dummy, you know, just to like, allow myself to love this big for someone who may not like return that love. And, and I, and I think what you're talking about, at least the way that I sense it's like, it's like, It's like a, there's like a universal love in there too. I don't know. It just feels, it feels big and magnanimous and also, and it's, and I think that's powerful because there's also a vulnerability in that.
Not because you can like get hurt, but because we're trying to always protect ourselves. Right. It's like this idea of like, I need to put up a wall because, [00:58:00] because you bounced without any explanation. And so I should protect myself. And, um, because otherwise I leave myself vulnerable. For more pain or whatever, but in fact, you've done like the opposite, which I just think is, uh, really beautiful and really inspiring.
And it's, and that's when we know really, yeah, that our love isn't a weakness. It really is a power.
Kyley: and I think one of the huge, huge, and by the way, everybody, her response to can we talk for pleasure was it's too soon. So she never got that message. She didn't get to hear it.
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: Um, This thing that you're speaking to the, the way the key anger has been the key anger has been the key. And actually it's afraid it's a line that spirit, like hollered at me over and over and over again. Your anger sets us free. Your anger sets us free. Your anger sets us free.
It was like, like, like drumbeat in the background [00:59:00] because with a fawn response, which those of you who don't know that term, I keep using it, but it's like, it's a fight or flight. It's a trauma response. You know, we have fight, flight, freeze. Fawn is like, what do you need me to be? I will be that. It's like you're, you're, in order to protect yourself, you really end up disconnected from your own needs.
Um, maybe you don't even recognize that your needs are getting trampled because, or even recognize that you're sacrificing your needs because you're so oriented around like, my safety lies in everyone around me being happy, right? And so because that's my go to response, Anger is, like, anger is the opposite of the fond response, right? And I had to really, and this is actually, I would love, this is the thing I think I want to talk about in episode two, is like, really diving into this, but in order to be able to trust the bigness of my love without seeing it as weakness, I had to let myself I had to love how angry I was and I had to love that angry [01:00:00] part of me because she's my boundaries, right?
She's the one who knows what we need and knows how to keep ourselves safe so that it's like, yeah, I love you unconditionally and I will love you until the day that I die. And also I'm not going to chase you. And if you don't have the capacity to come and tell me that you're sorry for what happened, like there's nothing, there's nothing to do with that love except for to let right?
And, and without, without the anger in, in balance. Then that love can can turn into self harm because that's when we self sacrifice in order to like validate that love And that's when we make ourselves right all sorts of fucked up things happen. That is not that the love is wrong It's that there isn't there.
It's that we don't have an equilibrium With the part of us who knows how to throw up, you know Throw down boundaries and self protect.
Eva: hmm. Yeah. Well, yes, there's non equilibrium with a part of us also knows like [01:01:00] we deserve and what's right and wrong for us and how we want to be treated. It's, it's a lot of that sense of like self peace. It's like, um, yeah, what you deserve and what you don't deserve, how you deserve to be treated and how you don't deserve to be treated.
Kyley: And like what you're willing to put up with, right? And that your love is big enough to hold, like, You know, for a while it felt painful to like that, you know, for a while it really, really hurt to like have this huge, huge love and feel like there was like a knife that came back in response, you know, um,
Eva: Which
Kyley: and I think now I really feel like I'm at a place where. I mean, I think if I'm honest, I'm still in, I'm still, I'm still like making peace with the anger or proper, I would say we're at like 89%, you know, like if [01:02:00] integration, but also like, and I cry, I still cry about this situation all the time to the spirit of transparency, but it's like a 10 minute crying jag.
And then I'm like, okay, you know, but, um, Largely it feels like, yeah, of course I love this person. Of course. Um, And, um, and that just is, um, and people do fucked up shit cause they're hurt.
Eva: it's so important that we all clean up our own side of the street, my friends, because her people, her people, even when you, it's. Anyway, I can go on. It's not intentional. Even when we really love, you know, the people that we love, but hurt people hurt people.
Kyley: there's one more thing that I will say in the spirit of, in the spirit of breakout, cause it's funny, we didn't actually talk about this and this has probably been the biggest thing that has taken good care of me and like where my like surrender magic horse that I taught came from. [01:03:00] The number one thing that has taken care of it, the reason that this has been a trend, like a force for good in my life has been because well one because I've had like really fucking amazing friends who had my back like you, um, and has been because nothing wrong so that when I was sad, I was so Yeah.
I mean, like just ugly cry and left and right. And when I was scared, I was scared. And when I was, when I could feel the anger out in the, like out in the wilderness, I invite, I mean, I invited it in. I intentionally was like, come on in anger. Like I, I see you and I need you. Right. Um, and when I felt pathetic, I felt pathetic.
And when I, without making it wrong, right. Like I just, every. What, to the depth that I was capable of, I just felt everything, and I didn't make any of it wrong.
Eva: Oh, my God. That's so good. That's like medicine. That's [01:04:00] like pouring into my veins right now. Because I, yes, yes, yes. Let's, I think that's a great place to sort of have people walk away with and we'll come back with a part two, but just like, like, that could be his own episode. But anyway, just the medicine of noticing when you make something wrong and then, and then just like taking that away and being like, no, it's, you can't do it wrong.
It's not wrong. There's no wrong. There's no right concept of right or wrong. It's so liberating to just let yourself be.
Kyley: because I think actually kind of tying back to our meaninglessness episode, I think part of what we get so twisted up about in life is that we try to make one thing true, right? And by making nothing wrong, I've allowed myself to make right is like, oh no, I'm fucking pissed at this person. This person did a really shitty thing and I hate that they did it, and I'm angry and I love them unconditionally and have tremendous compassion for them.
And, and, and.
Eva: everything can exist, right? Sorry, I just
Kyley: Everything can exist. And if I make something, if I make any one part of me wrong, I'm back to that like pedestal [01:05:00] system, right? I'm back to, um, self self rejection, you know, Thing and and and and they're that and it feels insane, right? I mean the moments where I felt like I was losing my mind were the moments where I was like just Trying too hard to make some part of me wrong.
Eva: Whoo, that was a beautiful fucking ride and I'm so excited that we have part two because I know there's Actually so much more wisdom to be gleaned from this experience. So we will have a part two Fi folks. But before we end this episode, let's get to Joy
Kyley: Yeah, Eva, what's bringing you
Eva: What's one thing that's bringing you Joy
Kyley: Have I talked about cut it out collage on the podcast yet?
Eva: I don't think so.
Kyley: Oh, okay, okay, okay. So I think I should report that I love doing craft projects with my daughter and we have recently started, we do spend a lot of time like coloring together and recently she was like, let's cut this.
We did, it was like a space kitty. She's like, let's cut this kitty out and put it on a black background. [01:06:00] So it's floating in space. And I was like, yeah, let's do that. And then we like added a bunch of stickers. Um, and then Birdie was delighted and it's like, she discovered collage. I mean, right. It's like, she created the medium of collage. And so she was like, so got so into it. And, and I actually really love collage. And it's a kind of craft craft medium that I always want to do more of, but it's like involves a lot of like messy pieces and you know, whatever, anyway, um, so we have started. We started, Bertie calls it cut it out collage. And I like for Mother's Day, I bought a giant bright big poster board and we color in all these pictures.
We cut them out and then we take stickers and we cut things out of other books and we like stick them all together. We made this whole little like scene of horses and unicorns and fairies and umbrellas. And
Eva: Oh my god, that sounds like so much fun.
Kyley: it's so much like so much fun. You've been hearing in my voice. It's just like so [01:07:00] goofy and silly.
And. It helped me. I now also I'm just collaging in my journal. I have been like making some collages of like, from like magazines of like cool shit that for me right so so we will like hang out at night and we'll do her. We'll do cut it out collage and we'll do, I'll do my like, more grown up collaging.
It just feels so fun. It feels so much fun. Birdie's made up a whole thing. If you live near me this summer, you'll see our business model, which is got my daughter is clearly also an entrepreneur. She's like, we're gonna have a lemonade stand and the lemonade stand, we're going to sell cut it up collages. So, you know, you can buy, you can buy your very own. Um, Um, and then she was like, I'll be at the front desk and you can be inside making the cut it out
Eva: Oh my God, what a boss.
Kyley: Will you keep making them for us mom?
Eva: I just love this because I feel like this is one of those examples of how parenthood brings you back to childhood lane, like the best way it just enlivens [01:08:00] us. Cause yeah, we get to do the things, I mean, even in auntie mode, get to do the things that we forget that we love, you know?
Kyley: Yes. Yes. Yes. And that like, Oh, I won't, I wouldn't collage because it was messy for me, but I'll do it for my kid. And it's like, wait, I can make a mess. That's fine. I can manage to clean it up. You know? So like the other day on my birthday, I went, I went to a coffee shop and I sat outside and I just collaged by myself
Eva: that's awesome.
Kyley: coffee.
It was so fun.
Eva: is so fun to be creative too. You know what I mean? Uh, yes, I do. I also really like collaging.
Kyley: And to be creative for me, to be creative in a medium that doesn't fucking matter, right? Because I am really creative in my work and also it matters, right? I care. I have a lot. I care because of ego. I care because of insecurity. I care because I fucking love it. And it's like my sacred work in the world, right? I don't give a shit about this collage, right? It's like literally just for fun and personal inspiration. And like, maybe I'll post a picture of it. So like my
Eva: But also I think that can [01:09:00] inform how we create in other areas of our life, you know?
Kyley: Ah, this is like a movie. Back then, this freedom is like, okay, what does it look like to create social media content like I would a collage,
Eva: Yeah, just for fun,
Kyley: just for fun, which is always my intention, but it's like, okay, but we can, like, there's always a deeper layer. You know,
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: how about you,
Eva: Okay. Um, hold on. I actually need to think because I was too busy listening, which is good. Um, let me think. What's, what's something that made me joy right now? Um, okay.
Kyley: You ready?
Eva: Wow. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. What's coming up is, um, unexpectedly. I don't think I've ever had this answer in maybe the four years that we've been recording. I think my answer, because it's so general, but like really when I took a moment to check in with myself just now, it's like, what's usually I look for something specific and I, you know, I feel like what's making me, bringing me joy right now is my life, which is like an [01:10:00] awesome thing to say. And I'm really, I don't know, I guess I'm just caught by how I'm, I mean, I'm just really happy right now. I'm like, I'm really, really happy. I'm really happy. I don't, I'm really happy, Kyley. I'm really fucking happy. Sorry. I just got to say that over and over and over again. Like,
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
Eva: in the jungle of Brazil.
And, and, and, I don't know. I want to think about all the things that are bringing me joy. It's not one specific thing. It's like, oh, my life gets to be so anyway, the point is, is that, you know, if you've been listening, you know, that I'm on this journey of also how vulnerable, like claiming the things that make me really happy, even though it makes me really vulnerable, because it's like, it's really vulnerable just to be like. I'm so happy right now. But anyway, I love my life in Brazil. I love my life and who I'm surrounded by and the people and my everyday and it feels like a fucking blessing. So maybe more on that some other time. Okay.[01:11:00]
Kyley: I, as someone watching this journey for you, I am so fucking happy that you're so fucking happy.
Eva: Thank you, Kyley. Yeah. I mean, we haven't even unpacked it in the podcast, like at all. I don't think because there's, there's, there's just too much to say, but we'll get to it one day. All right. Listeners. We love you so much. Come back next week for part two.