We're baaaaack, bishes!!!!!! Kyley & Eva dive straight into the esoteric deep-end on joy-as-teacher, effortlessness and what the heck that actually means, and all the other things that life is teaching us after our summer break. We missed you, buckle up for our best season yet!
Joy, bigness, what life is teaching us after summer.
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Eva: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. It's Eva.
Kyley: And it's Kyley!
Eva: Welcome back to season four, bitches.
Kyley: Whoa! Whoa! Siren exclusion sounds!
Eva: boom, boom.
Kyley: All the confetti! We're back, bitches!
Eva: Wow. This feels so good. Good. I am beyond excited and grateful to be sitting here with you, Kylie, to start the fourth season of our baby, our podcast.[00:01:00]
Kyley: I have, obviously, we have been talking a whole bunch, we already have spoken for an hour this morning, and just now I got tears in my eyes, I'm like, oh my god, our show! We're in the sacred space of the whole universe! And I'm already tearing up.
Eva: Yeah, it feels really good to be back. So yeah, we, you know, as, as we do every year, we took a really nice long summer break and both Kylie and I have just been so excited to get back in the sea and connect with all of you and share what's been going on and get back into, I think what we do really best, like what we do best, which is get into philosophical, mystical, tangential, hopefully, um, inspiring conversations about what it means to be a.
Speck of dust in this swirling world
Kyley: Yes! And also, we giggle a lot.
Eva: and love you a lot, swear a lot, love each other a lot, where you probably are going to get on some people's nerves, but I can't help.
Kyley: Yeah, we have, we have one review that says we laugh too much. And we have one review that says we swear too much. And you know what? That's the fucking vibe around here.[00:02:00]
Eva: Yeah. If you don't like giggles and swearing, then you can just keep it moving.
Kyley: Yes. Um, uh, Eve, I'm so happy to be back. Um, do you want to start by talking about it? Do you have any business things to announce
Eva: Oh, oh
Kyley: jump into our, like, you know,
Eva: my God. I like,
yeah.
Kyley: I know I forgot.
Eva: I like forgot how this works.
Kyley: We're rusty, everybody.
Eva: Okay. Well, I actually do have some things brewing. Could I, um, Like toss it to you to go first while I sort of think and reflect on what I want to change.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, guys. A lot is happening. Get ready. Here, like, shit's about to get real. Um, I will, I'm going to tease some things. Enter Your Villain Era is coming back for all the obvious reasons. We will be announcing it again in October. So, if you [00:03:00] can imagine from the name, if you aren't familiar, this is the program for you to kill off your people pleasing, codependent, good girl, prison spaggage. And just step on into your dark goddess, um, it just fucking exuberant self. So it's the most fun. It's a really, really delightful romp of a course that's coming in October. And um, another round of alchemy is coming after that, which I'm really, really talking about tears in my eyes excited for. So that's just a tease for that's like November, but just get yourself excited.
But yeah, the first thing that I'm just teasing is millionaires coming. So. ready. Get on the wait list. That's it. That's my announcement. My announcement is get ready
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: all of the things are happening. They are actively, uh, you know, building themselves or [00:04:00] having been built right now. And, um, there's a lot in the pipeline in a way that hasn't existed for me before.
I usually have a lot of ideas this time. I have a lot of, uh, this year I got a lot of, uh, there's a lot of houses on my monopoly board.
Eva: Mm-hmm . Well also, I just know you so like, you know, we just took this really lovely, glorious summer vacation and like fall is, we've talked about how for us fall still always feels like the new year. 'cause you know, it's like back to school and I think I know you, there's always this like exuberant energy when you come back into fall and you're like, I'm fucking ready to go, you guys.
Buckle up.
Kyley: And this time I'm ready to go. And I have, as we'll discuss in a moment, kids in school and ADHD meds. So like, really like I am fucking judged on fall and
Eva: Yeah, you're playing a different game now.
Kyley: got like a rocket strut, rocket ship strapped to my back.
Eva: I love it. I love it. Okay, so people get on the waitlist. [00:05:00] Um, well, I mean, I, I really like this because I think that's kind of where I would go to. I actually have some things changing in my, my business model that I haven't shared with you yet, Kylie, which I'm Maybe I'll share with you more off the record.
It isn't, it isn't fully fleshed out. So I will just sort of tease that if you want to work with me one on one, just keep an eye out on my Instagram, on my website for I think a really interesting and special promotion in a way that I've never done before. Um, which I'm really excited to because I don't, I just love working with people one on one.
Like that's what I want to do. And I want to help continue to help people experience. Self realization, which this summer is something that I really have experienced just like the infinite possibility of more and more and more and more and I don't think that it's, it's not reserved for a special few.
It's it's experience of, of enlightenment, which is just [00:06:00] like, we don't need to suffer so much is what we're all here for. And I believe that so in my body. I don't know. I just, I want to share it with everybody. I think that's what, yeah, I truly believe that's what we're here for. So anyway, keep your eye out for that.
And I will say, yeah, Federico and I, Oh, we ran our self love course, which Kylie joined us in, and it was a really beautiful experience. That was, um, this summer loving ourselves into power. And we're going to be running that again. Sometime at the end of this year. So it's probably a good idea to start collecting names to the waitlist If self love is something that you struggle with If you want to actually experience a more powerful version of yourself Um without the self criticism the self doubt the self hate and the shame Um hit me up Instagram's probably the best way.
You can email me, get on the wait list. I think the first round was just so powerful and [00:07:00] I can't, I cannot wait for the second round.
Kyley: When it's time to announce the next course, I'm making a request right now that we record and. Hello universe episode exclusively devoted to how deeply you would better go fucked me up in this like gutted me like a fish turn me inside out and then put me back together
Eva: Oh my God, I love that. The
Kyley: I I knew like Eva and Betty together like sign me up wherever we're going I don't even need the details just like yes but get me my get me the train ticket uh and it was It was an experience unlike anything I've, I've really had before of, yeah, being gutted, being held, being put back together.
And I think it would be actually really juicy to share that with people. One, because sales director Kylie was like, this is great material to promote.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: But also because I think it's a good story of, um, [00:08:00] yeah,
Eva: Yeah. Our own personal journey of walking through the shit and coming home on the other side. Anyway, thank you for saying that. And also I think it's just a sign of what a good friend you are. So thank you. Yeah. All right. So, right. Where do we want to begin? I think I would love to do like a recap of summer, where we've been, what we've been up to, what we've been working on, or what's been working on us, maybe some takeaways, some successes, some horror stories, whatever we got.
Kyley: Okay. Um, what if we take our standard question to kick off the show, which is what is life teaching you right now? And maybe we modify it for like, what is, what has the summer taught you? Like, what is life teaching you in the season of summer that has now become fall?
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: You want to go first?
Eva: I think I can. Okay, then. Yeah, I'll go first. I can feel things bubbling up and I feel like I just want to recap by saying beloved listeners. This has been a wild ass fucking summer. Like. [00:09:00] Wild, capital W, life changing, um, like, unexpected, a re reconfiguration of a lot of my beliefs, and an undoing, actually, a lot of my beliefs.
And so, um, what is life teaching me, what has life taught me during the summer, and continues, and it continues, I think, is like,
This is going to sound, um, you know, I'll just say it something that I experienced this summer is I think enlightenment is actually simple and
it's. Not something that's completely out of reach for people, um, and it's just never what you think it is. So that's something, you know, I feel like that's a saying that, like, you've said so many times that it's just become a thing that we say. It stuck for me, like, it's never what you think it is. It's like, nothing is ever what you think it is, and [00:10:00] it's almost like, maybe, I don't know, in a paradoxical way, it's like, you don't even have to, it's almost like enlightenment is the absence.
of effort.
Kyley: Oh, fucking A. I'm writing that down
Eva: And I, and so like, so it's a paradox, right? Because it's like, well, of course we need to like, try and do the things and to, to get us there. But it's also like trust. I truly believe that if we are on the path, like, you know, we set forth the intention that somehow I think a lot of the people who are listening to this show, we are reincarnated into this life as people who want to awaken.
Like, that's just how it is. And if that is what you want, you will. Without it's like your natural, your soul, your natural flow will just guide you in that direction without you even having to effort so much. And it's maybe just more about like a listening [00:11:00] and a trusting, but also that like you aren't the doer, you know, like, that's another thing that just keeps coming up for me.
Like I'm not doing it. You are not the doer. How do you breathe? How do you actually breathe? Are you breathing like you can probably give me a different a scientific explanation of like, oh, yeah Your brain does this and blah blah blah and there's these things that connect and all of a sudden you're breathing But like how does that happen?
Like you don't know and no one fucking knows There's something greater out here I think and I believe that's like incredibly loving and benevolent and powerful that's running the show. And yeah, anyway, I mean, that's just like some of it, but I could go on and on and on and on about the things that I've, I've learned.
And I would love to continue, but I'm going to pass the baton to you. And then maybe we'll go back and forth. Cause I could just
Kyley: oh,
I mean, already get out of town. This is where we have the best fucking [00:12:00] podcast because. Um, enlightenment is the absence of effort. It's just really exquisite listeners. Before we hit record, we even, I did a, uh, a ritual to start off season four, which is not something we've done for the show before we've actually recorded it and we're going to stick it on the end of the show.
If you're, if that's your vibe, um, it's, it's really fun. So you can listen to that. I think one of the things that came up in all these different ways in that ritual was this very thing about. Are not actually required to try. Right. And that's actually something also something I have been receiving in all sorts of different ways. Efforting and resistance are actually the same thing,
Eva: Oh, yeah. Mm hmm.
Kyley: right? Like, um, and it's totally, there's complete paradox here. And so if you, if you brain too hard on it, it doesn't, you know, you, you, you like squash the [00:13:00] bug, but, um, I just, I love what you are speaking to that. Right. All of our fixation on on fixing on busy doing on scheming on plotting and planning. It's like just busy. It's just the busy work, right? To like, but it, it, it, it's, it's the churn and it's neutral. Right. But it's not, uh, it's, it's, um, I really appreciate this concept of enlightenment as the falling away of effort, because what I'm receiving in that is you and I have spoken before on the show and offline, how I think both of you, both of us see this, this arc that people call enlightenment as. As a continuum rather than a destination. Right. And then it's a, it's an evolution of a falling away and a [00:14:00] becoming and falling away and a becoming. It's not like, oh, you passed this benchmark and now you get the check mark badge.
Eva: hmm. Yep. Yep. Uh huh.
Kyley: And, um, and I, I, I have been receiving a lot in different ways about this medicine of like, You can just let go of suffering, of attaching, of efforting, of planning and proving. And, and I appreciate you winking in that that's actually just what enlightenment is. That actually feels really pro Cause I feel like I've already been swimming in that for a while, and then you just dropped in like, uh, like, like Wizard Behind a Curtain style. Are you guys loving that I'm already back with season four with like seven different insane metaphors that don't make any sense?
Have we caught on to that?
Eva: That's your magic, baby girl. Yeah.
Kyley: We're squishing bugs. We're squishing bugs. The wizard's behind the curtain. Um,[00:15:00] and I'm, I'm just relishing that because I, what I'm receiving in that is once again, just the simplicity of this thing that we have made really complicated, right? Simplicity of enlightenment is that it's the place of no effort, which also means, as you know, many teachers have spoken about, you can't fucking effort your way there, right? It's really beautiful.
Like, the moment you're trying to be enlightened, you're just getting in your fucking way, right?
Like, there's no...
Eva: But that, and also what's coming up for me as you're speaking, and this is something I'm, I'm literally, like, I, you know, when we talk about, like, what am I learning, I'm learning this, this isn't fully embodied, like, I'm in the process of continuing to explore, but, like, you can't do it wrong. That's also, like, kind of what I'm feeling, is, like, so, this idea of, like, the moment we start efforting is, is how we actually get out of alignment, which I think is true, but also, it, once you start, once you adopt this idea of, like, actually, you can't do it wrong, then even the efforting isn't wrong, and then you're back to the presence, and then you're just, like, okay, oh, I can't, you know, I can't do it wrong.
Like, it's all [00:16:00] part of it. And what a beautiful orchestration. Like, imagine what it would be like if we all moved through life. Like, we can't get it wrong. We would be, in my experience, so fucking open that it would actually accelerate our process forward. Because there's no judgment. There's no condemnation.
There's no mistakes. It's just, like, I don't know. There's something about if you can't do it wrong, then there's no resistance. And there's also no efforting. And then you're kind of like already there.
Kyley: And there's no, um, what I'm, what I'm feeling as you're speaking to this is how much our commitment to, and programming to make ourselves wrong, just like that's the, that's our reactivity. That's our suffering, right? Is, I see this, I mean, so many times I feel like what it comes back to is. Surrendering the notion that, that I'm, that I'm required to suffer or that I [00:17:00] have earned my suffering in some way, or, um,
Eva: have to suffer in order to,
Kyley: I, right, like, either, right, I have to suffer in order to get where I want to go, or I have earned this and it's therefore my responsibility to, like, be in this place until I'm not. And I just feel like again and again. In particular this summer, in particular, walking with you and Federico and the self love program, watching how yet another layer of suffering is not required. And to make it totally paradoxical and insane, you can't effort. Your way, you can't, like, you can, you can intellectually receive that, but then you kind of can't do anything about it until it wants to drop away.
Right? Like, because all the different ways in which I attach to suffering, it's like, I'm just attached to them until they don't serve, until I have, until I've you. Burnt the candle to the ground, like whatever it is in this particular cycle of suffering that I'm getting something out of, it's just [00:18:00] going to keep burning until I stop getting something out of it. And so it's not required, but sometimes some part of me, for whatever reason, actually wants suffering. And that's also to your point, not wrong.
Eva: yeah, and then I think it's like, um,
this might sound really trite, but it's almost like you suffer until you don't want to suffer anymore. Like at some point you go.
Like, basically, whether or not we know it, I think sometimes the reason that we suffer is because we're attached to it, and we think that it's serving us in some way, or that it keeps us safe, like, like control is a perfect example, control, if you really look at it, fucking sucks, you know, it's a huge source of suffering, but we do it because we think that it's offering us something, so the minute that it's serving us, Anyway, so I guess what I'm trying to say is like, there's a reason that we do it.
We're not wrong, we're doing it because we think that it's actually helpful. [00:19:00] And then at some point we're like, something changes in us where either we're not interested anymore or we see something really clearly and we're like, I don't need this anymore. Or maybe we have a big jolt and something and like life will shove us in the direction of like letting go of control.
But
it's like, that's not wrong. Like none of it's wrong. You can't. So you suffer. Like,
Kyley: Right. Right. Yes. And I think the other thing I'm thinking about too, is everything you just said, I agree with, and I'm also thinking about how sometimes our suffering. Is also for us in particular, I'm thinking about some of the, some of the moments where painful, loud things have come, like, roaring into my experience and, and, um, well, I think 2 things I'll say 1 is I think suffering. You know, lots of great teachers talking about suffering is different than pain, right? So pain is like grief, but [00:20:00] grief is also love, right? Stuff like pain is, it's just a part of being human, but suffering is a little bit different.
Eva: It's like the avoidance of pain. So like, pain is like getting a cut, and that fucking hurts, and then the suffering is, or like, the suffering is being like, I wish I wasn't cut, like, that shouldn't have happened, like, blah, blah, this sucks, blah, blah, blah, what does it mean?
Kyley: right. It's like our looping or avoidance and, and often I think has like suffering has a feeling of like constipation or churning or spinning or like. Prison can't move. Right. And all of that is actually different than feeling the pain.
Um, but I'm also just thinking about like, some of the, some of the painful things that have come into my life that I have experienced as suffering, right?
Like something comes roaring in. And, and I, and it shows up and I experienced a kind of looping about it. I'm thinking about some, some big things that happened this summer is very joyful. Summer, but there were some big things that came in that were [00:21:00] painful. And in particular, this arc that I went through around some relationships in my life, I watched how when the, uh, how do I want to describe this? Basically, some fractures were revealed in an old, like a relationship that I've had with someone for a very long time. And so when those fractures showed up, when I initially experienced them, they were full of like, there was so much churn, right? There was so much suffering, right?
So there was the pain, but there was also like a lot of churn and suffering and, and that suffering. So in addition to like, we think we need it, but the suffering was also showing me. It was, it was like an arrow pointing in, right? Like this place where your instrument is, where you can't stop looping, where you can't stop spinning the stories. This is your place of great suffering go in and down. And so I guess what I'm trying to speak to is how we cling to suffering because we need it. But that also suffering can be this really beautiful [00:22:00] indicator light about where to go to love ourselves.
Eva: Yeah. So then I feel like you're, what you're speaking to essentially is like how we relate to suffering, which then changes our relationship. You know what I mean? It's like, you're talking about how, like, I I'm, I'm in it right now. So I'll just, I'll just preface as you know, Kylie, I have this steamy hot new romance going on in my life and it's like kind of a big deal and it's like wonderful and blissful and blah, blah, blah, and all these things.
And also, yeah. It's bringing up a lot of my shit, and, and I'm experiencing it as suffering, the churning, meaning like the stories, the worry, like the, there are just, it has nothing to do with the relationships, it's, it's pointing at where I'm not yet free, it's pointing at like all the stories that I, that are coming up and like my attachment stuff or non attachment stuff or whatever, it's just pointing at like, oh, in a way I'm like, It feels shitty but I'm also kind of excited because I trust that these things are coming up because they're ready to be released.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: It's like the scene, I give one of them, like this is Vernon Howard [00:23:00] quote from this book that I love, that's also from my teacher Tom who I love, and it's like The noticing of a negative is the greatest positive. And so what you're speaking to is like, yeah, they're suffering, but what you're, but then what you do is that you're noticing that it's a negative, which is then actually changes it to a positive.
Cause you're like, oh, this is a portal to liberation. And then I think that kind of changes our relationship to the whole situation so I can see myself in suffering and I can also be like giddy up like I'm ready to fucking let all of this shit go and it's gonna like it's gonna turn and it's probably gonna suck for a while but that's okay because I really trust the liberation on the other side.
Kyley: Oh, my gosh. Yes. I think this is literally the whole fucking thing, right? It's like, suffering shows up and usually we make it wrong, right? So again, we have pain and suffering. They're different. They're often linked, but stuff. So pain shows up, we make the pain wrong and that [00:24:00] creates
Eva: Yep.
Kyley: Suffering shows up and we make that wrong.
And then we're just in this like trap of however, our resistance is going to show up in that given moment, be it churn, be it avoidance, whatever. And I really love what you are speaking to. And this is showing up as like an actual flowchart in my mind,
Eva: Love it.
Kyley: We're like, if this then,
uh, that, that what you're speaking to is that we've spoken a lot about making space for our pain.
But I think what you're speaking to specifically is really, is a really big deal, which is actually loving the presence of your suffering. Because to your point, it's like the moment you, the moment you see it, it starts to change. And so when are. When our suffering shows up, there's like a, like a, almost like a welcome party vibe, like, oh, I mean, this is good.
How I kind of talk about monsters. Right. It's like, oh, hi Pat, hi monster.
Eva: I mean, this is much what's accept it's, it's like letting it all be there. It's like, what if this is friend, not foe,
Kyley: [00:25:00] And, and then in particular seeing, okay, this suffering is here. And like, to your point, it's like, you know, in this moment, you're experiencing great joy and great suffering
Eva: Yeah, yeah,
Kyley: and the suffering is great because the liberation is great. Right. And that was my experience this summer too, is like, there was this like kind of tidal wave of churn because. The, the, the invitation to freedom was so big and so I, and I can see so clearly how an older version of me would have had this tidal wave, just like knock her over and down and around, and she would have been like lost in it for a long time. And. And this time in part, cause I have exquisite, brilliant friends like yourself, but it was, um, it really had the, the suffering showed up and it was like, you said like, okay, giddy up.
Great. This means I have just boarded a train that is going like [00:26:00] somewhere really fabulous.
As long as I just continue to choose how to love myself through and in this suffering.
Eva: yeah. And also I will say that speaks to experience, like I think, and I say this to all of our listeners, just like trusting yourself. Because the way, the reason you're able to do that is because you had, you've had enough life and spiritual experience now to know that if you show up, You know, that, like you said, the invitation to freedom and liberation is there.
It's almost like, um, I don't know, like it's a kind of a self efficacy, but it's not even, it's like trusting life. It's like saying, Oh, I've been here before. I know what it's like to be whatever. And also there's always something so liberating on the other side. And yeah, it's that trust. I think trust in life.
It's like, I, can you trust? Life, can you trust yourself?
Kyley: Yeah, it feel I think of it as like a muscle memory, right? It's like the, this place of acute suffering can show up and you know, [00:27:00] what be activated is the me who's like, well, I'll never be loved ever. And here we are. Right. And so it can, it can be like gnarly because of what's activated. And also. I have the muscle memory. This is how things were. It was like Pavlo's dog, right? The like suffering, the greater the suffering at this point. I'm not, there's, there is a part of me that's like, oh, this means, this means we've picked, we picked big freedom. This, whatever
Eva: Exactly, yeah, we picked big freedom, I like that. And I truly believe that this relationship that I'm embarking upon, which I hope to be able to divulge to everybody listening at some point, because it is really juicy and magical, but it's also very fresh and, um,
Kyley: Private still.
Eva: private still, yeah, because there's a lot of things going on.
Anyway, but like,
Kyley: So everybody, Eva is just teasing you that you should subscribe and listen to every episode because you don't know which one she's going to just
drop juicy little tidbits about her
Eva: Oh, I'm going to be teasing everybody all season long. [00:28:00] And like, I think the, like, life changes that are going to be unfolding as part of this adventure are going to be so freaking juicy. But to your point, yeah, I almost feel like my soul has chosen, what did you say? Big,
Kyley: Big freedom.
Eva: big freedom. Like to me in a way, it's not even about the relationship.
It's about the experience that I'm already having is that my soul is like, I don't care if you end up with this person. Like you're here to experience big freedom regardless of the outcome.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: That feels very true for me.
Kyley: Well, and I think also what I want to speak to is the, like the link between joy, like, because what you're also speaking to and what I actually wrote down is reweaving the story of our lives and the story of our like operating system of, you know, receiving and all of these things. Through joy. So we are in this instance, we've been talking a little bit about suffering and how suffering shows up, but the [00:29:00] antecedent to it, particularly in what you're speaking to is this tremendous joy showed out. And so what I'm also loving is that yes, suffering can be a portal to big liberation. But also, I guess I'm just thinking about how joy itself is an initiation, right? So rather than trying to make joy, like dessert, right? The reward for good behavior, the place that we arrive, but what I'm feeling in this moment is the way that joy is its own initiator.
And it comes in. I mean, this is, this is motherhood, right? You like hold your baby and you're like, what the fuck, right? Because I've never, I don't have any new mother. And they're like, I have never been so, I've never experienced love like this. And I have also never been so scared or never been so miserable, right. And. And in some ways, I think it's because like, joy is the initiator that's like, I'm almost [00:30:00] getting the image of you and you put on like a, like, this isn't kind of joy because I hate overhead lighting, but you turn on an overhead lighting and then all of the like, shadows are really hard. You know what?
It's like, um, I guess I'm just in this moment feeling how joy is this thing that we love and we seek out and we. Celebrate, but it's a lot spikier than we give it credit for, you know, like it comes in with like a fiery. Joy fucks shit up, like really big joy comes in to fuck shit up because it's like, yeah, would you love this totally, would you love to have this experience of like, totally expansive love?
And now do you have to make the space in your body to like, keep receiving it? Great. Giddy up.
Eva: Okay, so I might be splitting hairs here, but do you mean, so does joy fuck shit up or is joy in itself joy and then it's what follows on the coattails of [00:31:00] joy
Kyley: Oh no, I, in this moment, I'm really feeling like, because I think we make things like love and joy soft. I think we make them like, you know, maybe not you, but I think like our cultural narrative about joy and, and love is that they are soft. They're like a little like warm blanket and like, that can be great.
That can
Eva: shit up? My response was like, no, joy to me feels intense. Like it's hard. It's like, boom. And it's, and sure, it's soft too. Sometimes it's like a warm blanket, but, but anyway, so. So you think that that intense cycle had,
Kyley: Yeah. I think I'm just the, I am feeling in the spirit of paradox and in the spirit of. They're like, I think joy walks into the room and it fucks shit up it is an initiation medicine, like big joy walks into the room and you get this, I mean, how many people, how many people with spiritual, like spiritual awakening or spiritual expansion have this moment? They're just like blown out by some deep [00:32:00] connection with source.
Right. And they're like, and then, you know, it inevitably perhaps fades and they're like, what the fuck just happened? And, and, and that becomes this kind of. initiation into things being turned inside out, right? Um, and
Eva: I
Kyley: in a good way.
Eva: you and I talk about joy though we have a different, and I love it. I love that we have, because like we are, yeah we experienced a lot of things in a similar way but joy is the one area where I think we have a lot of like nuanced debate because when you in that even in that example right let's just say you're taking mushrooms or something and you're like, whatever you're something happens your heart like is like so fucking open and you're connected to all and it's just pure joy I think in.
Yeah. That isolated experience, that's just joy. I feel like everything else that you're talking about is after joy. It's not joy itself. It's, I don't actually like, so what you're saying is like, and you come out of it and you're like, what the fuck just happened? And there's this initiation, but I consider that all separate.
Kyley: Okay. [00:33:00] Yes. I do love when we get into our like joy nuances, because, okay. I actually think I have to, I should clarify. Cause I think I'm actually, those are two different examples. I do think that the, like, You have a mushroom trip and you see God and then you
come out of it and you're like, kind of feel fucked up and scared.
You're right. Those are kind of two separate events. But I also think that joy when I say joy is an initiation. I think what I really do feel is the way in its intensity. Joy doesn't pull punches. And joy itself in its intensity also inevitably highlights for you where you don't have room for joy or where you are scared of joy.
And it's, it's, you could say it's an
Eva: that's fear, isn't it? That's fear, not joy itself.
Kyley: I don't necessarily think it's fear. I also think it's, [00:34:00] I'm feeling that this is like an act of service and love that joy has to offer. Right. Is that joy is saying like, I'm in, I am peak. Bliss with everything. And you want more of me. It's the thing that you are just running around like a nut job chasing. And so here you go. Here's a taste. And in the taste, I'm going to highlight where you don't have room for me.
Eva: Yeah, I love that. this actually... It was a callback to something you and I were talking about even before we started recording where I was talking about how like all this love has come in through this new relationship and
I've just been, there's been some fear that's been popping up and talking. So again, talking actually to my ex partner, Adam, who, you know, we, we've just developed our own really beautiful relationship after our breakup. He was like, you deserve good things. Like, I feel like he was saying like, you're just [00:35:00] worried.
You're imagining that it can't be this good and like it can be this good, but you're not, so you're, you can't accept it into your body yet completely. And that's kind of what you're speaking to. It's like, it's this joy that I'm feeling is pointing to where it's also actually hard for me to believe that it could be this good.
Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Yes, because joy inevitably fills the mark, goes all the way to the margins, and so then it shows you where the margins are. This is where I say, like, joy sometimes feels uncomfortable or spiky because when I'm really in it, I can also feel where it, I can just feel it touching the edges of where it is. Where it exists in my body. And so there's a, it actually, I, I honestly, at this point kind of experienced it as it, uh, like kind of delicious kind of ecstatic tension of like pleasure pain. Right. Cause it's like, it's like, I can feel the spot in my body where joy has found a [00:36:00] limit. And, and so it's just like sitting there like, hi, this doesn't need this limit.
And it doesn't always have like a story or language. It's like a physical sensation where joy is just, you know, they love, but Joy is just. Resting on whatever false limit exists, and it's just leaning there. And so there's this like kind of ecstatic pleasure, pain, tension, and. There's honestly a kind of, for me, somatic resilience that I experienced just in giving myself a moment of feeling into that exact point.
Eva: the part, I mean, oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Kyley: because I think the other thing I would say to reinforce this is that you didn't know about these limits until joy showed up,
Eva: Totally.
Kyley: right? And so
Eva: Basically, things got really good. They got so good that I was like, whoa, like.
Kyley: I need new, I need more space. Like I've outgrown, like you've outgrown [00:37:00] your joy receptacle,
right?
Eva: something, and it almost feels like something that I didn't think was possible then became possible. It really, truly was a breakthrough of limits. And so what I love, what you just said is that joy shows us where false limits exist. And then anyway, that could be an Instagram post that needs to be written down somewhere because it's real good.
Um,
yeah. And yeah, it's so interesting. Like, even as I'm saying, and I've been, I've been feeling this, I've been noticing like, oh, things are so good and blah, blah, blah. One way that I can see myself limiting joy because it feels uncomfortable is like, oh, I shouldn't be allowed to feel this good when other people are suffering.
Or like, I don't want to brag or like, here I am being obnoxious on a podcast telling everybody like how wonderful everything is. And like someone out there who's suffering is just like, shut the fuck up, you know, like. I don't want to hear [00:38:00] that because I'm really depressed right now, you know, whatever.
And joy feels
excessive, you know, in a way anyway. But, but even as I, as I'm saying this, I'm like challenge accepted, bitches. I can feel how I'm like, because I've experienced it because I know that there's like no limit to joy or at least intellectually. I know that. And because of like these new experiences that have come into my life, I'm like, I, I want to really test.
Limits of this and the boundaries of this unapologetically and be like, could it be this fucking good? Oh, so Another. So I went on this retreat this, this, um, summer folks. And that's partly why I think I've been so deep in my spiritual practice and blah, blah, blah. And one of the themes from the spiritual retreat was like, it's a Byron Katie quote where she says, just when you think it can't get any better, it does.
It has to, it's like, it just gets better and [00:39:00] better. Usually I think it gets better and then it gets worse. Like, that's another thing I've been learning this summer. It's like, it gets better. And then all I, all I imagine because I'm such a worry is It is the, um, horror, like, scary movie where everything's really idyllic and all these friends go on summer vacations and everyone's so happy, blah, blah, blah, and what do you, what's gonna happen next is like, someone gets their head chopped off or like, you know, like the, like in Brene Brown's book about vulnerability, which is very much tied to joy, she talks about how like, you see a happy family at the beginning of the movie, they're going on a road trip, everyone's singing, blah, blah, blah, what do you expect to happen?
They get hit by like a two by four, you know, it's like, We think things are good and then the message in society is like, well, you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah. And I'm saying like, you know what? Fuck that.
Kyley: Yes. Okay. I love that. And you've used this metaphor a couple of times as we've been talking over the summer too. And it's funny because every time you use that, that, that particular example, the pattern, I know well, but that particular [00:40:00] example. I have like this cognitive dissonance because all I'm watching is kids movies. And what happens in a Disney movie? They start with singing. There's some experience of conflict and then they end with singing. And so I think what's interesting as you're sharing that is also. Like you, you, go to a, you, you go to a movie and you go to a, you, when you turn on a certain genre, you have different kinds of expectations. So like what, what's the programming that you are plugged into? And if your programming is horror movie for your personal life, you enjoy it for entertainment by all means. But if it's, if that's your programming, could, could you swap it out to. You know, rom com or, you know, stand up comedy
or,
Eva: Yes. Yes. I love this. This is, yeah, this is the perfect metaphor. It's like you can just [00:41:00] Like, put on a different lens, essentially, and it changes your quality.
Kyley: cause when you, when you, when you go to the barbie movie, you let go into that movie knowing it has a happy ending. Um, I definitely did make me stop by the way.
Eva: we didn't even get to talk about it. Okay, so, this is amazing, and I can talk forever more about the things that I'm learning, and I'm beginning to realize I think this is going to be, like, you know, probably a theme that runs throughout the season, like all the things that are unfolding for me. But I want to turn it to you and ask, what's life teaching you right now, Miss Kylie Caldwell?
Kyley: Well, I really am relishing where this conversation turned. Um, because I'm also a really big believer, as you know, in intention. And I always, always find that like firsts set their own kind of intention. So I'm a big, I have a really big practice of setting intention. [00:42:00] I make my clients do it all the time.
I do it myself all the time. Uh, I made us do it for the project all the time. Um, but I also find that when I work with a new client, the first call, whatever we ended up talking about and is the intention for the container.
Or even if I work with a client for six months and they sign up for another three months, the first call of the next three months is the intention for that.
That's just inevitably what happens. So I am really relishing that. We're essentially creating the joy episode as the, or as our, uh, unintentional intention, right? The joy itself is coming in to be like, yeah, have more of me because, and that feels very connected to what I feel like I am learning right now, which is actually allowing things to be easy. And even as I say that, I can feel a little, I can actually feel, again, my body's response. It's like, [00:43:00] don't say that out loud. Are you
sure about that? Are we committing to that? That feels very dangerous. But, um, as I mentioned at the top of the show, my kids are in school. They are loving it.
Eva: I mean, this is like the first for, to clarify, like this is the first time both of them are off to like school. School, yeah.
Kyley: Off to school, multiple out, right? Because last year, for anyone who didn't know, last year, Does he, my, so I have a, I have a six year old and a four year old, my six year old did kindergarten last year, but we did a hybrid homeschool situation where he and my daughter went to an outdoor nature school three days a week for a couple of hours.
And then we did kind of unschooling homeschool and part because he's a really hyperactive kid. And I was really and very sensitive. And so I was very concerned about his combined ability to be still for a full day of school, kindergarten school day in my town and not internalize. Negatively internalize the instruction to be still [00:44:00] right and so I kept I kept him home for a year in part to figure out like what he needed it just my my mama instinct was like, it's not the time and I'm really, really jazzed about that decision because he was so ready this year.
He was excited. He has a lot of confidence academically this year. Um, he's already reading like a friggin 3rd grader. Um, and like, really loves. He loves Matthew. He was like, I'm a scientist. Like, he's really like. Jazzed to be an academic in a way that he didn't, he didn't have access to before. He has a deeper sense of self awareness and a little more access to kind of stillness in a way that he didn't have.
So very jazzed about the decision to stay home. And also y'all, I'm not cut out to be a homeschool mom.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Right. Like I, it turns out I like intellectual rigor for myself.
Right. So, um, so Desi's in first grade at a public school. He's loving it. [00:45:00] Bertie is at preschool five days a week, combo, long days, short days.
She's really, really loving it.
Eva: I mean, girl, this is like a milestone dude, right? The first time in motherhood where your kids are kind of, I mean, you've had childcare before, but this is like, I think these
Kyley: I have,
Eva: moments in and in your own personal life as a parent, not, it's not about your kids. It's like,
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: it's like more space. Is there
Kyley: this is season four and it's the first time we're recording a daytime episode without it being stressful. Like we always have always have recorded 8 30 Eastern time. Cause my kids will be in bed. There was a couple of times where we tried to record when you were in Taiwan before my kids woke up, right?
Like, we have, we have recorded the show around, like, my whole life has run around, like, basically, I've always, I've, aside, for the majority of working for myself, I have given [00:46:00] myself the bare minimum of childcare. Right. And then tried to spend as much other time with my kids, which was both desire and sacrifice all muddled together, like motherhood often is. And so, yeah, so, so, so I have been kind of sitting with this question of like, what if it got to be easy and what would easy look like for a while? And I actually, that's like really big. Uh, hi, just before birdie started school where I realized I had known it for a while, but I'd been like looking at it out of the corner of my eye where I realized like I really needed her to go to school five days a week, but she, I, we had picked three with the idea that maybe would graduate up to five.
And I had this moment, just texted my husband in the middle of the day, we don't really text them all day. And I was like, she's got to do five days. I can't, I can't. And um, and so there's this way that I think for the first, honestly, since the first time my kids were born, that I am actually giving myself space.
Yeah.
Eva: first time in six years, baby?[00:47:00]
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: That's, that's what I'm witnessing. Yeah.
Kyley: And I can, I can already feel the like shift in my body of just. I'm not trying to do everything at the same time. I'm not, and I'm not, um, yeah. So, So, a big realization for me, for me has been, and so that's one thing. It's like the space of, um, my kids being in school and unsurprisingly, they frigging love it.
Right. So it's, it's, you know, I say all the time, what serves you serves others. And it's just another example of like, I needed this space and it's also exactly what they fucking needed. They're so happy. Right. Literally Desi all week has. Gets done with goes to go to bed. He's starving because he's not eating dinner because he wants to talk to us about school.
So it's right. Like,
Eva: Good for you. Good for everyone else. Like take that. We'd be podcast listeners. That's something that Kylie and I both [00:48:00] put in our back pocket and it's. Really helpful.
Kyley: and I think some of the tricky thing is figuring out what good for you looks like, right.
Cause part of the conflict for me has always been a genuine confusion about, well, how much do I want with my kids? How much do I want for my work? How much do I want for like, Sitting in the grass with a book by myself and so, and I don't, I don't think that will ever not be confusing.
I think that's part of the motherhood initiation. Um, but I've been asking the question a lot for a long time. So, so the ease of and space that my kids going to school is. Feels really monumental and as I mentioned, I also started taking 88 HD meds, which turns out when you have an
executive function disorder, and then you get some help with your executive function.
Um, life is. Fucking easier. Go figure. I mean, it. It's that has actually been its own really big spiritual experience of like, I just kind of [00:49:00] feel like I keep seeing wave after wave instead of being like bludgeoned, like wave after wave of like, see how easy this could be. See how easy this could be. See how easy this could be right to the point of like suffering.
It was like all of these things that I was making really challenging because I needed them to be challenging. Right. So there's like real compassion here, but, um, I've always thought of myself as someone who was like pretty compassionate about ADD stuff, and it turns out I wasn't, right?
It's like, like I started taking this pill, and, uh, so many things are easier, like, my house is, you know, my house feels so much easier to maintain, and that's been a place of like, real... Story and suffering and marital struggle and, and it turns out once again, because I was trying to like, white knuckle my way through it, right? Like, it was hard. And, and [00:50:00] I kept coming to the question of home and chores with compassion, but also I was still trying to make it something I singularly resolved.
And so the gift of taking Vyvanse. Which maybe I'll take forever. Maybe I'll take for a year. I don't know. I'm not, you know, it's, it's an, it's a gift right now, but the gift of it is, um, you, you can't do everything all by yourself. And sometimes the things are really hard. It's because they're really hard
and maybe you need to kind of like resource some support. And maybe because you're confused or wrong, you don't know what the right resources, you know what I mean?
Eva: Well, I think what, what strikes me about this is like, okay, so the takeaway is like you don't have to do everything by yourself, but I think that for many of us, we don't know that we're either trying to do it all ourselves or that we are doing it all ourselves. I mean, I think that's what's kind of your experience is that [00:51:00] sometimes you just don't know a better way.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: Yeah, and so, don't know, I guess what I, but again, this is where suffering is friend, not foe, is like, I think you kind of, it's like, how can you tell if you're overextended or if something's, you know, you can, or something it's, you can tell because there's suffering. Like if you're overwhelmed and something's hard and you're just like, what is going on?
Like, I'm trying to figure this out and I can't get it and you're stuck. I don't know, it's probably pointing to, to, You know, to look at how can this be different? And I think that's exactly what you did to get you where you are now. Like, and it wasn't clear to you until then you took the medication. And then now as your kids are going to be away and you're going to notice like, Oh, this is what having a little bit more space feels like.
And I didn't know how hard I was holding on or her heart. I was turning previously because you had nothing to compare it to, but. So sometimes it's like in hindsight, we see what we're doing, but I think what's most important is just [00:52:00] that you are suffering. And that led to an opening of like, Hmm, let me see how I can do it differently.
Kyley: Yes. And what I'm also thinking about is the whole conversation we just had about joy and how you have these moments where you, you basically don't know how good you could feel right. Joy comes in or relief. Cause I think the space to me feels probably the flavor is relief. Um, and relief comes in and it's this moment of, Oh, I didn't see that I was suffering.
Cause I actually didn't know this feeling was available.
Eva: Totally.
Kyley: So there's a certain level of suffering that we. Yeah. There's this, there's the suffering that shows up and we're like, Oh, I got to look at this. And then there's also just like the, the suffering that's so familiar, we don't even see it.
Eva: We're just, we're swimming in it and we just think that that's normal.
Kyley: And then we have a moment of relief or joy bursts in or some kind of like break and the break can be things get worse. Right. But sometimes I think the [00:53:00] break is also like your experience of falling in love or my experience of this like big exhale coming in that gives us a, like a new North star.
Eva: Yeah. That has felt really huge for me. That was actually another takeaway that I had this summer of like, Oh, that's. But yeah, on this retreat, seeing all the ways that I was camping in Canada and I was in this tent and I just remember crying, just crying one night because there was something about the retreat that, um, showed me.
Oh, like the tiny, almost in some ways so subtle that I didn't notice, like you just don't notice sometimes, but all the subtle ways in which I was acting out of integrity with myself or acting like my heart was closed. Well, that's what I mean by out of integrity kind of, it's like my heart was closed when in fact it wants to be open, like just all, it's almost like death by a thousand [00:54:00] cuts.
It's subtle. Like I don't, I don't, I don't know it. But then. Being in a place of peace helps me see what was possible, which then in comparison made me see clearly more like in my everyday ways in which I know I could just have access to more, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so, um, this piece about the other thing about like joy, which I think is really just on topic is,
I think we just think that this is how it's supposed to be, like we're supposed to suffer. I think there's a lot of like negativity and cynicism and maybe even guilt about privilege or for whatever flavor, whatever our flavor is, is like, like, oh yeah, it's, it's supposed to be like hard and, and, and blah, blah, blah.
And again, this thing of like, if it gets too good, um, it's, I don't know, undeserving or something, you know, like it can't just be all good all the time. And I'm kind of like, Why not?
Kyley: Well, and I think when I look at [00:55:00] that, when I have moments of, of looking at, it's almost like I can see the tendrils of where my suffering, um, like, where my attachment, like, my own attachment to suffering, like, almost like, um, like, like, they're like weighted. Yeah. They're waiting me down, right? Sometimes that's how it feels like this, this, this need for, um, or investment in suffering. And I can feel a lot of times that there's this sense that, well, if I'm not suffering, then I'll be alone, which is hilarious, right? Because suffering makes us feel so alone, but there's. There's so much collective suffering and there's sometimes a lot of like ways that humans bond through
Eva: Yeah, trauma exists for sure.
Kyley: Right. And I think that there's, I can see sometimes that there's a part of me that's afraid that basically if I don't suffer, I'll just float away. [00:56:00] I don't, it doesn't seem logical, but I've touched in to see that before that
Eva: What do you mean by float away? Because I can understand the being alone. I interpret that to mean, do you mean like if you're not suffering, but you'll be out of quote, unquote, out of touch with reality or unrelatable. And like, you'll feel like you're, um, not isolated, but you're like, um, displacing other people because you're not suffering and they are.
Kyley: I think it feels like if I'm not that, that. Because the programming is so deep that suffering is the connective tissue between all of us, that if I'm not suffering, then I'm disconnected from everybody.
And so if I want connection, then I need to hold on to suffering. And the first time I saw this, I kind of started the intention, the way I do, I set the intention of like, what if the fabric of weaving was, was love and joy instead of suffering?
And what if these, these threads got replaced and they were, and so I could feel that the connective tissue is that. There's that [00:57:00] everyone is that we all love each other or that we are all love or whatnot, rather than our connective tissue of suffering. Um,
Eva: Oh my God,
Kyley: and so there might be different. There's like, maybe it, it also, when I touch it, it, it's beneath story.
So it's not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily have a, actually, I take it back. I think the loudest story is. If I'm not suffering, I'll be so big that I will destroy people, which listeners will know I'm an elephant. If you get to, if you listen to our little ritual at the end, and that's, that's also, that's the fear.
That's the anxiety. It's like, if I'm not, if I'm not suffering, if I'm not small in some way, and again, this stuff lives like deep, deep, deep, right. But when I touch into it, I can see it. Um, then I'll just stomp all over everybody and I'll hurt them all.
Eva: I'm sorry. I'm just really quiet and reflective because I feel like this is touching like a core thing for me. And again, [00:58:00] like, this is why I love the podcast. Like, oh, I missed this. I've missed diving into, uh, I don't know the inner workings of the psyche with you and all of that, but, um, and the heart and the soul.
But I guess I think that's, that's generally a very common belief. Um, and it's our conditioning and blah, blah, blah. And I guess I just wonder, like, First, I see what's happening is that once we, I think that's really good to see, like once you, at least once you see it, and I think it, you know, you bring something from the unconscious to the conscious level, that's the beginning of it, at least having the opportunity to be released, like that maybe isn't true.
Maybe it's not true that in order to be connected to people, I have to suffer. And then to really look at reality and see. I'm just looking for examples in my own reality where actually it's when people are really joyful and [00:59:00] loving, I actually feel more connected and I guess, do you think that that's true?
Like, I think there's a, there was a past version of me where like when I was really in my shit and I was cynical and depressed that if someone was really happy, I think I might actually have been annoyed, you know, I'm like, I would have been like, but is that even true? Or is, I can't really tell. I can't tell if that's just like a story that I'm telling myself because on, on the other end, there's also like, People who I just find so infectious,
Kyley: mm-hmm.
Eva: people who are genuinely happy and free.
And all I want to do is have more of that and be more around them. And I'm like, you were like medicine for my soul. Um, yeah, I don't know.
Kyley: What I, so what's interesting is you're kind of speaking to unhooking from the suffering that like, who am I to be this happy? Right. Basically, like, can you be happier than other people? And what I'm watching, 'cause I'm kind of sitting with [01:00:00] this and I'm not afraid, parti, I mean, it's there, but it's not the loudest thing that like my joy itself will push people away or will alienate people. What I'm feeling is, oh, this is really beautiful, once again, grateful, what I'm feeling is that the suffering is withholding from myself the things that I want, because it's actually the desire that I think is dangerous and will stomp on everybody. And so the thing that I'm feeling is that, yeah, that the thing that's dangerous, this is not the first time I've seen this, that the thing that's dangerous is. That I have this like big hunger and that if I let it out, I will have the joy of having what I want, but it will come at the cost of everybody in my life because it's this disruptive, selfish, dangerous energy.
Eva: [01:01:00] Yeah. And that's just another version of where we can apply what's good for you. It's good for everyone else. So anyway, I can see, so I see what you're saying. And I think. That's just as we continue to like quote unquote up level or as you could say go deeper within whatever you want to call it Um, that's that story the stories that same stories come up again and again, but like the bigger the quote unquote more high stakes it feels Um, the louder the story will get, right?
And so you experience that story same with your kids of like, what was it? Um, yeah, what's good for you? Well, it's good for you. Putting your kids in school is actually good for everybody else. And like, then there's like some resolution there. Whereas maybe like 2 years ago, you would have felt guilty about that.
You know, like,
Kyley: oh, for two years ago, it wasn't even, it wasn't an, even an
available thing to consider. Right. And also they were younger and I had different desire. Right. But I also think part of why it felt, I think some part of [01:02:00] me knew two years ago that I didn't actually want to be in mom mode as much as I was. And. I felt that that, that desire felt really like I could, I can, I have a moment where I remember standing and brushing my teeth and looking in the mirror and like, really like kind of hear it, hearing spirit being like, you, you aren't interested in stay at home mom, motherhood. Like, this is not actually a thing that you enjoy or like, and then immediately feeling so much tension around that desire. Um, but also to our point in the beginning, I think that's okay because I think, I think actually part of this, like. My desire is safe, and my hunger is like really letting my hunger be a thing that I trust is actually just like one of the journeys that my soul's kind of committed to this whole experience.
Right? And so if motherhood is like this big initiation around desire and there's like lots of layers of nuance and tension and suffering that can show up, [01:03:00] that feels like not a thing I'm doing wrong. It feels like this is the initiation you asked for.
Eva: Yeah, exactly.
Kyley: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Eva: But anyway, just to say that, like, so, you know, that was two years ago and now you're here and you're like, what's good for you is good for everybody else. And you don't feel like, oh, you getting your desire met means that you're going to obliterate everything around you. And so now you're speaking to, it's just another different level of you being, again, we're referencing this elephant, which is the card that Kylie pulled for herself at the beginning that will play for you guys at the end.
Um, and again, it's just all a story. It's all just, yeah. Like, I can see so clearly now, like, obviously you'll have your own journey with this, but I'm like, because, because I'm not identified with the same story and I can like step outside from it. I'm like, easy. I'm like, I'm like, like, there's a way that you could just annihilate, like, see clearly that this is just another story that if you are so big that you're just going to annihilate everyone.
I'm like, it's just a [01:04:00] different iteration of where you're eventually going to get to what's good for you. It's good for everybody else. Like your bigness. Is gonna serve everybody else and which is kind of what I'm also saying, like my joy, could it be that my joy will serve everybody else instead of feeling like I'm going to alienate people.
Kyley: You're going to light us the fuck up.
Eva: Yeah. What if it's like,
Kyley: You're going to glow like a thousand suns and we're just going to like, sunbathe in your warmth. You know?
Eva: yeah, and, and. And can we just speak to maybe the discomfort of like, maybe my joy will rub people the wrong, will rub some people the wrong way, and that's, that's, and also maybe your bigness will rub some people the wrong way, and maybe that's also part of it, which is that we need to learn the lesson of like, we're not here to please everybody, and, and, For me, that definitely feels like, fuck, dammit, like, that's also partly felt by the [01:05:00] initiation because,
Kyley: I'm so glad you said that because this is the gorgeous thing about like, You know, sacred friendship is because I can see with tremendous clarity that if your joy, if your joy pisses somebody off, like that's exactly, they got exactly the medicine they needed, right? Like they have just been sent off to like, they got their homework,
right? And that it is not a thing that you have done wrong. Uh, and that is not only a them problem, but like, that's what they needed.
Eva: totally, yeah, like, yeah, just the idea that triggers sometimes are not bad. It's like, what is it showing you what's unresolved within you? Like if you're so triggered by someone who's joyful, good, go look at that, great,
Kyley: yes, go, go with that. And then what's interesting is because I can see that that's feels like the most obvious thing in the world, but the idea that my stompy feet might, like, you know, someone might feel flattened by them. That feels like, but that's because my feet were too big,
right, Like it's, I can feel the cognitive dissonance.
It's [01:06:00] like, but that's me. I was wrong there.
Eva: Like, it's okay for you, but it's not okay for me, but I think once again, seeing the cognitive dissonance, I actually think it's the beginning of a good thing because you're like, what is the truth of reality here? Like, it can't be true for one person and not the other. It's just that we're really identified with our own stories.
So, thank you, cognitive dissonance. And yeah, I can see, like, if someone is It feels like they're being squashed by your big elephant feet. It's like, triggered by you, good. Like you're offering them some really big medicine. Like you're doing them a fucking favor and not, and I'm not, I don't mean that in a righteous way, but I've had that experience where someone will feel so confident or so big and I feel judgment towards them.
Like maybe it's something that I see on Instagram. And thankfully, in the past I didn't, but now I have the wherewithal to be like, take responsibility for my own shit. Like, this person is not doing anything to make me feel a certain way. I make [01:07:00] myself feel a certain way. And it is so liberating to be able to take responsibility instead of being a victim and being like, Oh, this person stepped on me with their big elephant feet.
And it's like, no, no, it's like, you are not a victim in this circumstance. And again, there's an opportunity for liberation here. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: my God. Okay. This is so good because you're making me think about how a moment where I recently walked myself, I was on the other end. So there's this same thing, a particular woman on Instagram, who's like, her confidence is astounding. Her confidence just actively pisses me and there's like, she's the one person on the internet that I totally hate follow. Like I just,
I unfollow people and I know, like, I see her posts that I'm like, buckle up, let's get ourselves pissed off.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Uhhuh. Uhhuh.
Kyley: Right. And there's some story I can tell about like integrity and this stuff, but basically what I'm pissed about [01:08:00] is that this woman stands up on a stage and is like, I am exceptional. What are you? Doing not getting in line to see what I have to offer. And it makes me furious. And I was watching it the other day, watching like that reaction. And I could see so clearly, like my story about her integrity is entirely meaningless because actually I'm pissed about. Is that I don't give myself permission to that same kind of confidence and it's interesting because I could see that and then, and then, and then had a moment of like being grateful for how pissed off I continue to be like, this is, this is an, we are mid, we are
mid story on this, right? And. And so that actually I'm really grateful you use that you use that example because I can feel how then I can like cast the story the other way. Right. So her confidence and how much that pisses me [01:09:00] off is not a her problem. That is a me problem. So if my big feet make someone feel squashed, maybe that also doesn't have to be a me problem.
Eva: Yeah, for sure. Well, because, okay, I can go on and on, we can talk about this forever, but I will just say, like, this might be a loaded question, maybe you don't have, you don't have the same feelings that I do, but when you're like, oh, you see this person who is so fucking, like, unapologetically herself and super confident and that, like, rubs you the wrong way.
Once you start to see, like, because here's the thing. Judgment of people sucks. Like, there's a quote that says, and I think, feel, I, I feel this way when I observe my own experience. Like, when I judge someone, actually, the first person to suffer is me, like,
Kyley: Oh, yeah.
Eva: because it's like, it's like a, it's almost like a, like a ping pong.
Like, I think I'm throwing a ball at someone, but actually just comes back and hits me right in the face. It's, and so in your example of like, you're judging this person. And again, I have all those [01:10:00] examples to where I judge this person. And it doesn't feel good for me. I feel liberated when I'm like, Oh, I.
She's not doing anything like this is I take responsibility for my own shit. I don't know if that feels so good to me
Kyley: Yes, and I will layer in, I think specifically because I've had, I've had this feeling about this particular person. I fall in line for a little while. The what you're saying about the, like, this is a me thing. I've known that, but it's been intellectual, but I think a turning point. Is when I specifically sat with the, with the kind of nasty feelings to be like, okay, what do you want,
Eva: Yeah,
yeah,
Kyley: right?
So it wasn't just I'm responsible. This isn't right. Because I was doing that intellectual distancing for a while. Like, this is a me thing, not a her thing. But that was not not actually. Resolving it, it [01:11:00] was just, which is its own, that is its own helpful, like to create some distance is a good, is a helpful part, but the actual shift happened when I actually sat down to be like, these nasty feelings have something very specific.
Eva: Like why are they there?
Kyley: sat in and I kind of sat in reverence with them and that's when they were like, yeah, because you're, you're not that and you want to be, you want to be that confident.
Eva: it just shows you what you want. Yeah for sure. That's
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Yeah, and that's kind of what I mean is like taking like once you take responsibility, taking responsibility is being like, wait, what is this showing me? And also in a way, then this person is actually becoming your teacher, because she's giving you this,
Kyley: Oh, for sure.
Eva: gift, right?
Because you're like, you're seeing all the things that. You've seen her that you want to either have seen yourself or experience yourself or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, thank you, whoever this person is. Oh
Kyley: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Eva. I could not love you more.[01:12:00]
Eva: my goodness. I am so back. So glad we are back in action. I just listeners. We really love you and we are excited about season four. We already have some really good guests lined up. I think the energy of this season. I mean, we haven't even really talked about this yet. Maybe we'll like tease it throughout.
But the energy of the season really feels fucking fierce and sassy and
I don't know. We've been around the block, you know, we've been doing this for a while.
Kyley: Yeah. Well, and I think joyful and easy. Right. That's what we spoke to
today. We spoke to joy and ease. And so
Eva: so we, yeah, I think that's what we've actually always wanted though. We've talked about joys and ease before, and I think we've done a pretty good job like with, yeah.
Yeah.
Kyley: I just think it's like to the point of like more, right? Like we've, we're expanding and have expanded the space
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: for even more joy and even more ease
Eva: Wait. So this is coming out on [01:13:00] Wednesday. I just forgot. We're also doing an advice, like we're doing a live launchy. Oh, we should have mentioned that. Well, whatever. We'll, we'll share this on the socials too, but we're doing.
Kyley: the socials.
Eva: A launch party
Kyley: We're going to launch party
Eva: Friday. So two days after this comes out, Friday the 22nd, where we are gonna be answering your questions, y'all.
Um, we're gonna try our first sort of like q and a question advice thing. I, I mean, I think Kylie and I, no, I know Kylie and I are very well equipped to answer all of your fucking existential spiritual also everyday questions about whatever love. health, family, friendship, people, difficult people in your life, making decisions, feeling stuck, like all of it,
Kyley: money. You all know I love to talk about your money.
Eva: money, business. Yes. So we are here for it. If you want to send us your questions, um, there's a million ways you can do that. You can email the podcast, you can email me and Kylie, all that information should be in the show notes, or you can send us [01:14:00] DM through Instagram, send us your questions and we will be able to give you an answer pretty quickly on Friday on the live.
Cool. Read it out loud. It can be anonymous. And if it works out well, we would like to make this a continual thing.
Kyley: Yeah. Should we do this whole episode has been joy, but
should we do a round of joy
Eva: Yes. Okay. Well, the thing, the joy that I want to share is fresh on my, I was gonna say, fresh on my lips, fresh on my hips, fresh on my everything, which is like, I just came back from Mexico. And I am tanned and bronzed like a fucking goddess. I spent a week In this little beach town. Um, I've never been to Mexico before I got there and it was a moment of like, Oh, can life like really be this good?
And it was a dream. It was [01:15:00] unreal. It was like. I got to go there and spend a week with my hot lover dude, and it was just, I don't know, I have no language, but, um, couldn't be, it's like stuff that like, yeah, dreams and movies are made of. It's like, it's being swept away on this romantic week week, which just, It just felt like consciousness and life and the universe and my soul the whole time were just like, this is just all for you.
Like, you are meant to enjoy this. And like, could it not only, but like, could it be that then like, all of life is for you? Like, it was.
Yeah, um, so delicious and felt like a miracle, really, is what it felt like. And also Mexico is just so freaking cool. Oh, just like the colors and the people and everyone was like, yeah, lots of thoughts on like [01:16:00] America and being like, I just, I just felt like everyone there was like middle class, but like happier, like
happier and never, I don't know, there's, I don't know, in America, I don't know, like, This might be like a small thing, but I never once worried about my shit getting stolen on the beach. I like left my phone and my wallet out there. And I don't know, you hear stories about like Mexico is like dangerous or whatever.
I would never do that in the States. I would never, like, I don't, in LA, if I were to go to the beach, no fucking way am I leaving my phone on the beach. Like, I just, like, I don't know. I just feel like Mexico was a place where people were genuinely, at least, where I was just felt like people were there just to enjoy life.
It's simple, not complicated. Food is fucking good. Everyone's drinking tequila. The water is there to soothe your soul. And it's like where life is meant to be enjoyed.
Kyley: Oh, you know, I want to speak very specifically to the part of you who is, [01:17:00] you know, worried that her joy might whatever, whatever, whatever, because as you were saying that, I just felt like head to toe, I was receiving, I felt that felt like energy magic as you were sharing specifically the joy and bliss of your experience. So I, I just want to reinforce, I really do think that you experiencing and receiving and then also pouring forward that this is a chapter of tremendous joy is, is actually really big medicine for those of us who get to receive it.
Eva: Thank you, Kylie. I appreciate that. Yeah, I'll tuck that into my pocket. Death's when you think it can't get any better. It does. It has to. It's the law.
Kyley: What's bringing me joy? Um, I just got cheered up. Um, it's my friends. Uh huh. [01:18:00] What's bringing me joy is how much I feel loved by my friends. And thankful for all the ways that they, uh, walk me through the ability to be held and be more myself and feel that life gets to be good.
Eva: Can I speak on that?
Kyley: Mm hmm.
Eva: So as a friend of yours, people I call Kylie my life wife, I have a couple of life wives. She's one of them. But like, the reason I know this feels, you know, you're getting, you're getting emotional talking about your friendships, because as someone who gets to be in friendship with you, like, this isn't just like, Oh, friends, it's like, Deep and profound and we're like held it feels like we talked to almost like we talked over the summer about like it's almost like romance like maybe not like romance romance, but it's it's not for me.
It's not [01:19:00] any less than I think romantic relationship like these types of things. Deep, powerful, intimate, fun, silly friendships, like they're meaningful, like this isn't just like a passing thing, you know, like a flippant thing, it's like, yeah, you, you, you specifically create friendships that feel like deep wells of comfort and connection.
So yeah, I understand why you get emotional about it because they feel really powerful. I mean, I feel like. It was powerful. I know that you feel that way with other people that you're surrounded with. And like, how lucky are we? How lucky are we? We're so freaking lucky because yeah, I think this is like a privilege and an honor and just something we're lucky that we get to experience in this lifetime.
Kyley: having anything for ages. I have, I have had really, really, really tremendous friendships throughout my life [01:20:00] since I got my first best friend, Megan, in middle school, who's still, you know, still my ride or die. Um, but I, I know for a long time, particularly since my kids were born, I have struggled to balance and receive and like trust that I am. That I am worthy of those friendships that I am, I have the balance of friendship and motherhood has been complicated in ways that have to do with believing I'm worthy of love, believing that the way I can show up is, is, is an acceptable way of communicating what I need, all sorts of layered things. And as a result, I have been in a little bit of a chapter of like really being worried that I'm not a good friend. And, and it feels really, really beautiful to in this moment. Uh, as like, as that initiation continues to unfold, uh, to just actually really be in a place [01:21:00] of, yeah, just receiving the goodness of friendship and my friends in particular, and like actually really being able to receive it in a way that it's like, I've had all these friends who loved me for a while, but there's been a chapter where they were all a little bit at an arm's length. And so in particular part of why I'm crying is because it feels pretty monumental to have even more access to letting everybody.
Eva: Yeah. To letting it in, letting it in and to allowing yourself to be loved. Yeah. I hear you on that.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Oh, so good.
Kyley: I think for both of us and for all of us to love that is not, that is not rooted in a required or required of like performance, you know, but to love that is just unconditional. To see that that's the true nature of the love that's available. Like that's, what's already there. Right. But it's to see that that's, what's actually there is [01:22:00] the love unconditional.
Eva: Yeah, well, I love you, friend. I think that seems like a good note to end things on. Um, if you like this episode, do all the things like subscribe, share it with your people. Um,
Kyley: Share it with your friends, send them, be like, ah, this is how I love you unconditionally. Listen to this podcast.
Eva: yes, yes, share with people. Yeah. And, um, reviews. We had, I think, yeah, we love some fresh reviews. That's always really nice. Uh, we love it when people say nice things. And, um, It's been a while. I would say it's been a while since someone left a review. Again, we've been on summer break. Someone left something.
Um, anyway, before summer break, but, um, please help stroke our egos. We love that.
Kyley: We can't wait to ride with you all season. [01:23:00] well, I wanted to cut the deck and then like, I don't know. That was funny. Okay,
Eva: that.
Kyley: well, first of all, you got the sea serpent
Eva: Ooh, I've gotten that one before, but I can't remember what it is, but I know it's in like the mystical magical realm.
Kyley: magical realm. So I love that. I, I. I mean, so I'm just going to say what I get and then we can
Eva: Oh, I like that. I never do that.
Kyley: Oh, well, as your most, you know, as your psychic friends,
that's the key, right? The key. This is what I do actually do with my kids now. Cause they really like these. Cause we flip that. We flip a card and then I will ask Bertie, like, okay, well, what, what do you see in this picture?
Eva: I love that.
Kyley: just like make stuff up
or gives me [01:24:00] directly channel divine guidance. It's really 50, 50. And, but. Um, but I think that's way more fun than immediately going to the book because it's really about like, these are just prompts for, to tell you what you already know. Right. So, so actually then here's your question.
Eva: Oh,
what do I see? Thank you. I mean I see an eye so maybe something about clear seeing I don't know this card feels very like charged and powerful to me like
Kyley: this.
Eva: I don't know it gives me a feeling of like we're going into the mystical land and Buckle up, but not like in a, there's no good or bad. It's more just like, like, yeah, just like we're going to dive into the mystical, but also something about the fact that it's [01:25:00] a circle, um, feels like what does the circle represent to me?
Like, I don't know. It just feels like, um,
what is that feeling maybe safety or like some continual cycle of some sort. Yeah. Maybe it feels like it feels like it's going to be some sort of cycle. Um, and it feels. Auspicious. I think it's a good sign.
Hmm.
Kyley: you're very excellent at this.
Eva: I love this.
Kyley: I would just add, I think as you were speaking, I was thinking about also the circle feels like care. Going, you're going off into the mystical, this mystical wonderland, but also like you're, you're held, you know, you're
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: a gentle container as you go.
And then also when you were talking about going off into the, into the mystic, [01:26:00] I was thinking about, um, that image and anxiety you've had before, right.
Of like, Oh, the, like, there's a point at which I'll lose my mind. Right. And that, that's the thing that has like, you've found yourself bumping against and this feeling like I'm. Like an echo and an evolution through that, but in like a gentle right now to like, not a forcing through just almost like a, like you drive by and you wave at that,
you know,
Eva: Yes. Yeah. And the, I like, I never saw that there was an eye in there. I've seen the car before, but it looks like just like one giant eye, like staring. I'm like, Whoa, that's cool. Oh, I love, thank you for showing me how to use these cars in
Kyley: yeah, also, uh, you're wearing snake earrings.
Eva: Oh, you're right. And I chose them specifically. I had a, just a feeling today. I also, I read, I wore this red shirt for you, by the way, since you mentioned it.
Kyley: it. It
looks so good. It does look so good. It's the only thing I would say too is that this feels, um, I mean, I do [01:27:00] think the card, the book even might say something to this, but I think there's something to like the snake is Kundalini, right? The snake is the energy of like shedding of skin, but also I think as Federico has spoken to like the energy of, um, you know, Shakti rising of, of
Eva: Oh, really? Oh, really?
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, you talk to Feddy about it more because I only know, like, you know,
Eva: Okay. Okay.
Kyley: like, I've read, like, a chapter of a book about it, but, like, um, but the, the, whole notion of, like, Kundalini awakening is a, it's this image of, like, a snake that's coiled. And, and it rises, and it rises through our spine, and that's like the energy of Kundalini Awakening, or just the energy of, like, kind of, what's the word that's wanting to come through? Kind [01:28:00] of like fast moving. Spiritual expansion.
Eva: Wow. Wow. When you said that, I got like a crazy feeling up my spine, actually. Oh my This is so cool,
Kyley: Okay. Okay. Okay. This was very fun. Um, this is actually, this could just be our podcast episode is us just,
Eva: seriously.
Kyley: okay, wait, um, can I make you do it again?
I'm going to do this one's me.
Eva: This one's even elephant. Oh, well, immediately I just see beauty. Like when I see an elephant, it's majestic and strong and wise and very spiritual. feel like. Elephants are such powerful animals, but it's like they don't even have to try to be powerful because they just, like, you know, I see, think of an elephant, like walking through the safari, like slow and measured and just doing its own thing.
And it's like, it just takes up all [01:29:00] of this space without trying. It just is. And it's just like a miracle to witness. I think the idea of being around an elephant, everyone is just is like. You're enamored. You're in awe of the beauty of something like this. Yeah. And really just speaking to the elephant, but also elephants are playful too.
Like that's, that's what I also getting from this. And I noticed that there's like, so there's like the fire and there's also like this. Like, I guess, uh, Bindi, I don't know if you'd call it that, but like something happening in the third eye. And it looks like it's cradling the fire, like, oh, so, like, gracefully.
Yeah, it's like, almost like a gift of some sort. It's like, hey, I can hold this. I'm not scared of the fire. It's easeful. Maybe I come delivering gifts. I don't know, something about the way that it's, like, [01:30:00] so... Gently holding this fire. Yeah. It's a beautiful card too.
Kyley: I've been getting this card like every day this week
Eva: Really?
Kyley: That's why, well, first I look like, cause this, like, this is like the sexiest card ever for Eva. And then I was like cracking up because this card, I, the, it just keeps,
Eva: Oh, so they really want to come through for you on this one. They're trying to send you a message.
Kyley: um, I could have cried the whole time you were saying that I do feel. I do feel like, um, I do really feel like there's elephant energy in me in terms of like, um, it resonate with the feeling of just being big.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um, [01:31:00] and I really like wanted to cry when you were saying like, just because it's an elephant is big, just, it just is right. It's a feeder giant. It walks and moves and it's big and it's not, it's not like a puffer fish or like a animal raising the hair on its back.
It's just a big, it's just big. It just moves big. I
Eva: And it's not even, yeah, there's no efforting. That's how I get it. It's like, it gets to take up all of this space and everybody wants to be in that space. So yeah. What do you, what do you see? Like when you see the elephant though, anything else that you would add or any differentiation?
Kyley: think the other layer that comes in is this idea of like, maternal lineage, like mother, like mother, because right, I, I, animals are like matriarch societies. And so this [01:32:00] image, idea of like lineage and an ancestry again. And also specifically like matrilineal, that's what I was trying to say, matrilineal.
Eva: What does that mean?
Kyley: Um, I think it means like the lineage from your mother, like the lineage through your mothers and your mother's mothers.
Um, and and so I think what I'm also just feeling is, um, I'm really just, that's funny, I haven't really known what to do with this card. I'm like, okay, I'll, I just sit there and kind of that just anyways, but I think I'm just also feeling like the elephant is, um. I'm feeling this energy of the, the, this is now, you have been this, and this is now the moment where you see that [01:33:00] this is. Who you are and what you come from somehow that feels like the thing that's like, yeah, there's feeling like this is the thing you've always been. And, and, and this sense of this sense of like destiny through the line of mothers. And, um, so thinking of Victoria's choicelessness, you know, and so this is a moment of tremendous power through surrender. Yeah. Like you keep saying there's nothing to do or there's like, yeah, there's just feels like. It feels like this thing of like choiceless destiny and surrender that is power and power that's like, it feels like this paradox of you're here. There's nothing else to do [01:34:00] and there's nowhere else to be, no one else to be, and you're here and yeah, there's, there's just echoes of that kind of language over and over again. So I also just keep seeing this image of like stomping and like, it's like shit just gets like, like, it just doesn't matter because you just stomp
Eva: Yep.
Kyley: like,
there's no such thing as obstacles. You're just a fucking giant elephant is like
parading with all of the paternal elephant, you know,
all of the moms and babies behind you that are just
Eva: It doesn't even see the obstacles. It's just like going over it. Yeah. But yeah, the maternal lineage thing though, it's just interesting. I don't know. I just remember when you were talking about, anyway, I just feel like there's this healing going back, back, back generations. Like, I just know that you and your mom have such a special relationship and you've talked about.
Yep. Like when you shared your adoption story and then she had talked about like, Oh yeah, like I can't remember specifically what she was speaking to, but she was like, Oh yeah, this is stuff that I'm, [01:35:00] do you remember what she was saying? Like what she was speaking to, like, this is stuff that I'm actually, she told you about your ancestors, her and like, this is in your lineage.
Do you
Kyley: Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Well, cause yeah, my, my. My grandfather, my great grandfather, all my, so my mom's dad, his father was adopted.
Eva: Oh,
Kyley: so there is like an actual lineage of adoption, but adoption and secrecy. It was like a very like hot, it was a very,
um, I don't know if that's what you were referring
Eva: Well, there was something where you were talking about, I don't know, some wound that you were healing that your mom was like, Oh yeah, like has gone through our, like the women in our, in our family for years.
Kyley: on, I felt that so much, many times. And I think even like with the, when the adoption story came out and I didn't, I didn't, get a chance to tell my mom it was out. And before I even did, she had found and listened to the show and called me to tell me how proud of me she was. And yeah, I could cry again because I was so, I was so afraid that it would [01:36:00] be hurtful in some way. And she was just really proud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, feeling, yeah, feeling the, like, care and also feeling like that pack, right, that my grandmother stomped through the jungle and my mom stopped through the jungle and my aunts stomped through, right, it's like, and birdies, like, this, like, really cute, ferocious little elephant that's stomping through the jungle, you know, um, and so that's also why there's no obstacles is because we're, like, all in this line of clearing the way, you know, before and before us. So care. Okay. Lastly,
Eva: Ooh,
Kyley: a spider with a
Eva: fighter.
Alright, I see you.
Kyley: web.
Eva: Energy. I've never seen this one before. I would say I, I see you podcast energy. Do you? I do. You wanna go? You, you go.
Kyley: It just feels sexy as fucking hell, right? Like, look at [01:37:00] that. Look at that
spider. Do you have said, you have said like that the energy of like sassy, this spider is like, yeah, bitches. I said, I spin this exquisite iridescent web. And then I just fucking chill
Eva: Ooh. And let things come to me.
Kyley: and let things come to me and you either walk by and you miss it too bad for you, you walk by and you're like, Oh my God, look at that exquisite thing with the raindrops and the sunlight. And look at that master craftsmanship. Bernie and I saw a teeny tiny spider in this incredible web yesterday, and that's what I couldn't get over.
I was like, I was like. The craft behind this fucking spiderweb is so exceptionally mind blowing. So I'm also feeling how much we are in awe of the craftswoman ship of
spiderwebs
Eva: I love this.
Kyley: and also, yeah, the spider doesn't hunt for its dinner. It just fucking [01:38:00] waits. It makes the thing that it loves to make, it creates its art and then it rests in its art
Eva: Wow, that's an awesome interpretation.
Kyley: yeah.
I really like the spider box.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, for me it's just like, I like that it's black. There's something here about the sexiness, but it's like, it's cool. It's like, I don't know. It also feels like mysterious feels badass. Kind of feels like, also like the cool kid in the class. I don't know.
There's something about his coolness here. It's like it's a cool looking fucking card.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Well, it's saying like, I'm kind of a badass. Like, I'm
Kyley: also kind of looks like our hell of a universe logo
Eva: a badass.
Kyley: and it's like circle that's not quite a circle and it's black and it's cosmic colors. Our show's like, yeah, I've been this all along.
Eva: Yeah. Spider, yeah. And I think we're also like, attracting those. Like, we're attracting the things that are like, right. Like, we're gonna bring [01:39:00] things into Yeah, it's like there's a stickiness here is what I'm thinking. So like, People are going to stick like there's going to be like people are going to listen and they're going to stick.
We're going to get like the guests and they're going to stay. I don't know, it just feels like something like there's a, like we have the ability to like, to like stick people in a good way, in a good way,
Kyley: oh, oh, and, yes. The first thing that came to my mind that I also kind of forgot about, it was like, like community, like, like my former client, Kim, who often listens to the show, and it's like an, Really, really gorgeous human loves spiderwebs, and she always talks about them as your web and like the web is your community and is your like interconnected network. And so she's always like part of her like whole vision of the world is just like you grow your web and you build your community. And so that also feels like there's stickiness and there's also like, yeah, just this expansion of this really incredible, interconnected web of community.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. And as you're saying that, I feel like it's like bigger than just us. So like we're in the center, [01:40:00] but this web goes like all like all out here. Yeah. And it's just like, yeah, it is a web, like a community. I really love that. That makes A
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: web of
reading. Cool.
Kyley: This feels like the most exceptional episode, season of our, uh, show yet.
Eva: For sure.
Kyley: It's getting better, it's
Eva: We'll just keep getting better and better. It just, it's inevitable. Okay. So do you, do you usually read the book or no?
Kyley: I'll send us your picture of the book afterwards, but no.
Eva: Wait, I can, I have the book, I'll read it, but I just want to, so it's serpent
Kyley: Mm
Eva: and spider. Okay, cool. Um, well, thank you for that. Continue. I
Kyley: Oh, well, I was just gonna say, because I think, when I read the book, my mind is looking for the answers, but when I do, when we do this, like, we received the answer.
Eva: love that so much. Yeah, I'm going to totally use my cards in a different way. [01:41:00] Yay.