In part one of this two part series, Kyley brings a long-standing issue to Eva: How to navigate overwhelm when you just don’t have enough time. The answers we found surprised us both!
In part one of this two part series, Kyley brings a long-standing issue to Eva: How to navigate overwhelm when you just don’t have enough time. The answers we found surprised us both!
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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Pocket Mentor(Friend)ship- Eva's Newest Offering!
Kyley: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the show, everybody. and I made a realization recently in season five of the show, which is our cute little theme song says, Hey, it's Kyley.
Kyley: Hey, it's Eva. And then for five, four years, would immediately start with,
Eva: Hi! It's Eva! And it's Kyley! We're just laughing at how long it took us to realize that it's redundant. And maybe no one else even noticed, by the way, but we're just trying to come up with a snappier way to start the show.
Kyley: and as a result, we're like [00:01:00] adrift at sea because we're so used to starting that way.
Eva: Yes. Anything else feels fake. But okay, no. But tell the listeners, what are we going to talk about today?
Kyley: Okay. So we're super excited for this episode. We've been actually planning it for a while. I, at least, am very excited and in need of this. We're going to talk about discipline and structure and routine that doesn't feel like shit. I don't know how one accomplishes that, but I trust we will make headway.
Eva: Yes. Well, and for more context, it's, I think that both you and I, I mean I think it's maybe in different ways, but like, okay, I'll speak For me, there's like sometimes resistance to discipline and structure because I'm like, oh, probably honestly, because of just having been burnt out in the past. I think that's where a lot comes from.
Eva: So that's my whole thing, but also like loving structure and loving routine, and so just. Like, my question [00:02:00] is, like, how do we do that in a way that's true to ourselves, not from a place of force?
Kyley: Yes. And, um, and I. I am an, you know, very busy ADHD mom, so I have a million reasons why structure is the first thing that I abandon. And lately, I've just been, I've been feeling a pull towards it, like a deep, that deep sense that this will help, this will, this will solve a lot of the things that you're bumping into.
Kyley: And so, uh, I'm very excited to get your Capricorn wisdom,
Eva: Mm
Kyley: uh, on how to like, How I think we can look at this differently. And I, and I think for listeners, I know that a lot of us have a hard time figuring out how to engage with structure without engaging with like shame and should and judgment and all that kind of nasty inner critic stuff.
Kyley: Okay. But before we solve the world's problems, uh, I'll tell you a little bit about what's going on in my business. Um, [00:03:00] I have a new workshop coming up. That is maybe the one that I'm most excited about and listeners know I do free workshops all of the time. And I have been like a little kid about Christmas for weeks on this one.
Kyley: And it's called how to quantum leap your business. Um,
Eva: I love this. Okay, this is new. This is new.
Kyley: Yes. Uh, because if you are in, uh, if you have a business and you are spiritual, you have inevitably heard people talking about quantum leap and timeline and, uh, you know, people share their like over, you know, stories of overnight success. I have big air quotes around overnight success.
Kyley: Not because like, I'm here for making possible things that seem impossible and. I think there's ways to engage with this relationship, this idea of like, it's how to unlock quantum leap because I don't want it to seem [00:04:00] like expansive growth is this thing that just happens to you and you're this kind of passive receptacle who like maybe wins the lottery and maybe doesn't, right?
Kyley: I want us to feel really embodied both in our like spiritual relationship to growth and also the practical tangible aspects so we're gonna map it out. Y'all, I have Beautiful diagrams and models and I'm like so deeply nerding out about this. So, uh, the link is in the show notes here. Please come register.
Kyley: It's going to be on November 11th. I cannot wait. Uh, come join
Eva: Oh my god, I come. Yes, go quantum leap. I mean, I will just add that knowing Kylie being able to talk to her offline, you're just in this energy right now that I'm experiencing is like, it's this fire, you know, that's coming out. And it's been sort of there under the surface. And, and, you know, we all go through these phases of like rest.
Eva: And then, um. [00:05:00] What's the opposite of rest like boom, you know this like big energy and I would just suggest that people like jump in on your energy in this way because I think can be really contagious and it's Yeah, in that way, it's like a gift, you know, like people get into that energy and get into your energy and like, they're ready to go.
Eva: And also there's just like so much practical advice that you're always helping me with. That just like, sometimes my brain is overwhelmed with business strategy stuff and you come in and you're like, and then boom, everything is just all organized. You say, yeah, like we've discussed your HD brain. The one thing you're good at organizing his ideas.
Kyley: Yes. I just put all of my effort into organizing ideas. I don't give a care about organizing anything else. Um, uh, November,
Eva: So that's this in November. Woohoo! Awesome. Free
Kyley: my love?
Eva: I have a new offering that I'm excited about. Actually, I guess there's two things. So I'll start with my new [00:06:00] offering. I am offering for the first time a voice messaging, um, voice messaging app only program. So like Telegram or WhatsApp only one on one private coaching, which I'm testing out.
Eva: It's new. Um, I've done, I've always had voice messaging as a part of my like one on ones and my programs, but never just messaging. And I want to try it out. And so I'm sharing this with you podcast listeners, because you guys are actually like my ideal podcast. clients. Like if you are listening to the podcast and you're here every week and you love what Kylie and I are sharing, essentially it's just more of that, but with personal support for whatever it is that you might be struggling with or what you're challenged with, with of course the spiritual teachings behind it all.
Eva: And so this is kind of in its beta phase and also full transparency. I think I'm just trying to figure something out for my business as I'm [00:07:00] constantly moving, like as I become more and more nomadic, I'm looking for like real ways to make this sustainable and also be available to people, even though I might be in like different time zones all the freaking time.
Eva: So. Um, I'm going to be offering this for like a really discounted price since it's kind of in its testing beta phase. If you want to jump on that, um, go to my website. Yeah. Go to my website. EvaLeao. com slash Pocket. Pocket. Oh yeah. The program is called Pocket Mentor Friendship because it's like very much the vibe.
Eva: The vibe very much is like, that is what I do. I am a really good mentor to people, but it's also friendship like the podcast, like what is going on over here. And I just know it's essentially like what I want. I want to offer what Kylie offers to me all the time is like, sometimes I'm freaking out about something or I'm lost or I'm confused.
Eva: And it could be like a big existential question, or it could just be like, I need help with this business thing. And I want your feedback. It's so nice to just have a place to go, you know, like have that support [00:08:00] that works with the rhythm of your own life. Or if you have like a crazy ass schedule, like I do, or if you're in different time zones or whatever, you just like verbally process, which is like so helpful for me.
Kyley: In and of itself, like verbal, even if no one even listens, like just the verbal processing alone is gold. And then, and then you get Eva's like, I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: just. Eva's just like, y'all, I cannot even explain this, this pocket, this pocket friendship has saved my life more times than I could even put into words.
Kyley: Those of you, how many of you have said, like, I just planned to pause the podcast because I had to talk out loud about my own response or to Eva's point or like, you're just going through something and you've got to talk it through with someone and, um, Yeah, you're the way you show up in these kind of offline conversations over over we use the telegram app is just like gold.
Kyley: [00:09:00] And so. Yeah,
Eva: And if you're a verbal processor, if you are down for having a long distance friendship with one of your girlfriends, like if you are a spiritual seeker and are having an existential crisis, like this is just so good. You just wake up and you have a message in the morning, like that's really personalized to you.
Eva: So I'm excited. I want to see how it goes. Oh, and the other thing this is, this is getting long, but I will just make a quick drop off to share more about this. But the next retreat that we're doing in Brazil is March 2025, baby. Oh, Keep your ears and eyes peeled for more information on that. Cool. Cool.
Eva: Cool. Okay, let's dive into today's topic. What's I don't know how What's up? What's up for you in this Kylie? Give us a little bit more. Come
Kyley: I'll just lay out, I'll just lay out, you know, I'll just lay out the kind of what feels messy and then we'll just [00:10:00] dive in. So I have shared many times on the podcast how a million years ago when you were, when I first met you and you were my coach, you may share this phrase discipline without judgment and it blew my mind, right?
Kyley: And it has lived in my brain ever since then because at the time it couldn't even imagine I couldn't even discipline was judgment, right? I was no sense that they could even be separate, right? Um, let alone knowing how to actually engage with discipline without judgment. And, and I think that's like the, that's the underpinning thing here, um, is that I've been in a long journey of imagining, like, what What is structure?
Kyley: What is routine? What is discipline that doesn't come from this place of like shame, judgment should, um, but also supports you. And so to give a little bit more material context, a couple of things are happening. One is you mentioned at the show, there's like a, I'm on fire with about business stuff. Like [00:11:00] I have so much enthusiasm, so much excitement, so much clarity.
Kyley: Like I, I have. Um, there's like a lot that I want to make and do with from a place of real like, I just feel inspired and lit up, right? And, um, I, um, and I know that structure of some kind would really facilitate being able to get the fire, like, out, out beyond my internal little, you know, fire pit. Um, and Also, I have just been feeling, for a while, this steady tug towards a more disciplined spiritual practice. So, I don't have like, you know, I'm not the kind of person who like, meditates every day at the same time, or even meditates every day.
Kyley: It's very, one of the [00:12:00] things I really love about my spirituality is that it's just, It just is, like the fabric of my life is spirituality, and I'm constantly like, you know, talking to spirit while I wash the dishes, and, and Um, and I have just had this knowing for a while that some kind of routine and ritual around my spiritual practices would be really nourishing and also, I think, and I think also feed that kind of creative fire that I have, right?
Kyley: It would, it would, it would, it would support that. And then the final place too is, um. You know, I'm going to be 40 in May and we will have a future episode about age because it's, we were just talking offline. I have a lot, I have a lot of awareness about that in a way that I haven't about other birthdays.
Kyley: And like, I'm the kind of person who's very active because I'm always running around with my kids, my kids. And I am strong and fit and healthy. And also [00:13:00] like a girl's got to get to yoga class, you know, like it's time. And so that's another thing that's like. Well, the way that happens is you put it on your calendar and you commit to it, right?
Kyley: That it's like, okay, there's a routine here. Um, because my life is just too busy to, to not have, it's not happening. So routines probably got to be part of how it happens. Um, and I'm stumped and, and in particular in the past, I've been the kind of person who like comes up with plans. That are just immediately like I stick to for like two days, which I think is a very ADD thing.
Kyley: It's also a very like when you're busy thing. It's a very human thing.
Eva: Sorry, can I just add to that something that I've noticed so much about myself and people in general is like the creating the plan in itself is very fun. We all, not, not all, but a lot of us get really sucked into that because it's fun. It's exciting. It's creative.
Eva: Um, it also makes us feel like we're doing something. And then where we [00:14:00] really struggle is execution. And. I mean, I am, that, I'm also speaking from experience, that is often my experience. I can spend like, I'll spend like a whole day making a fucking plan, and then like, not execute. And then I get really frustrated with myself because I'm like, well, I just wasted a day because I'm not, you know, like, it doesn't matter if I have a plan if I can't execute.
Eva: And so, I don't know. I just think that's good to notice that that can be a habit that we
Kyley: Yes. Yes. And so, and so as a result for a while, I have been like, okay, well just fuck off with the plants, right? Like they're not nourishing you. They're just becoming like perfectionist places where you can like decide that you failed at something, you know, and I've been for a long time, really moving from like intuition and heart and that, that kind of flow.
Kyley: And it's been really good for me and it's really helped me divest from a lot of my perfectionist tendencies and a lot of my overworking tendencies. And. And I want to let the pendulum swing back towards a little bit more, [00:15:00] yeah, like a little bit more structure, um, and I've had, oh, go ahead, but I'm just trying to figure out how to do it without, and I'm figuring out how to do it,
Eva: well, that was gonna, I was gonna ask like, what's the rub? What are the rubs? Because I'm sure like there's, there's. Not just one, I imagine. So, like, where do you feel stuck, or why, what's the bottleneck, or why does it happen, or what's the struggle, you know?
Kyley: yes. Well, I think there's a couple of things. One, I also think some of this relationship to routine is like nervous system stuff. I just, I think for all of us, if we cannot stick to a routine, it's probably because of a nervous system capacity. So some level, I think it's just like, I'm just on a journey and I can feel that we're moving into routine.
Kyley: And part of me is like, maybe we're just not fully there yet. And we're just still, and we just got to like, Let the journey take its time. I think I am not very good at it.
Eva: like, you're speaking, yeah,
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: preaching the choir, yeah.
Kyley: Um, [00:16:00] The other thing, um, I think there's a very practical problem, which is just that my life is very busy. Right. And so like I
Eva: Well,
Kyley: very, you know, and, and it's interesting how, like, I think over the past year, I've been more intentional about like trying to like, let it be less busy, which has actually made me realize how busy it is, you know, like, um,
Eva: can I just
Kyley: Mm hmm.
Eva: Give you some feedback though.
Kyley: Mm hmm. Mm
Eva: more like I just want to mirror and it may not be good news, but sometimes I think it's helpful when people can just, um, like give space to like, you can just name it, which is that like, you've been busy since I've met you, not because of anything, like, not because like you're being a busybody, but because you have two small fucking kids.[00:17:00]
Eva: And you run your own business, and so by nature, like, the structure of your life is in fucking sane. And since I've met you, this has been, um, this has been up for you. This has been like a challenge in your life, but not because I think you're doing anything wrong. It's just the nature of the phase of life that you're in.
Eva: Like, it, it's just true. It is just true. It is motherhood and running, and you know, it's just the bonkers insanity thing that you decided to do, just like to start your own business while you're also having two small kids. Like, it's a huge challenge. And I say, whether you like it or not, I mean, like there's something in accepting that that is the reality of your life.
Kyley: Thank you. Thank you. I need people to like slap that on my forehead as a reminder every day because I think part of part of the problem, too, is that for I think for a very long time, I wanted routines and [00:18:00] structure to so that I could get myself to this perfect place where I would do all of the things right.
Kyley: It was like, I'm overwhelmed, but I want to pretend that I'm not, right? There's, there's, or, or I'm just being, I don't want to say overwhelmed, like, I just have a lot on my plate, to your point, but I want to pretend that I don't, or I want to pretend that I should be able to do all of the things for all of the people, all of the time, uh, and And I think for a long time, one routine that you're helping, you're already helping clarify something for me, one routine was loaded with like shame and judgment.
Kyley: And so I would abandon it because it felt icky, but also it was an unkind routine because its goal was to get myself to the like, now I'm good enough because I've done absolutely everything that I possibly could do. Right. I was like, I set too high a standard. And then I was trying to. Build a routine plan that would get me to execute on the two highest standard.
Kyley: And so it was an inherently unkind. Right? Like I was building a ladder, but it was like, [00:19:00] none of it was nice or kind to myself.
Eva: Okay. What you're speaking to, I think is so fucking important. Okay. So this is so interesting because I think I actually do have a lot to say and a lot of experience around the idea of being like efficient and productive again, maybe it's just my Capricorn nature, whatever. And it's
Kyley: I also think because, yeah, but I also think you've, I feel, I especially wanted to bring this to you because I want to bring everything to you, but I do feel like you have spent a lot of meaningful time engaging in this question of like, flow and productivity and like, And you, I do perceive you as someone who does have discipline around things that are really important to them, like your meditation routine.
Kyley: So yeah, I just want to, I do think you have wisdom on everything, but I also think this is an area that you have spent real
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for saying that. And I think just for context, like time, we've talked about this before on the podcast, but time used to be [00:20:00] like one of my. Biggest sources of suffering and sometimes it still rears its ugly head, but I mean like I would freak the fuck out over being just So tied up in knots and overwhelm and stress because there was never enough fucking time And I was like and so yeah, it has been a long time.
Eva: Like I think it's like healing this relationship, right? And and Um, and it's ongoing But I think there's like a spiritual component here, and I think this is so relatable, like, there's not a single person, I doubt, who's listening to this who hasn't had, you know, that feeling of like, panic almost, you know, where you're like, I can't get this stuff done enough time in time, and there's just too much to do.
Eva: And just even taking care of myself as a human is like a full time fucking job. How am I supposed to take care of these other people too, you know? So, but I think what you're speaking to is so important. You were talking about how like, um, Not making, like, not being kind to yourself. And I think what I saw in myself [00:21:00] is like, well, actually no, what I'm seeing in you and so many of us is that we create like unrealistic expectations and that is unkind.
Eva: Like I saw that so clearly when I day, when I, one day when I was like, wait, I think I'm aiming high. Like, I think it, it's coming from this place of like, let me really push myself and, and, and see if I can challenge myself. But we cross. I think a line where it's just, if it's not realistic, you know, people say this all the time, then you are setting yourself up to fail.
Eva: And, and then you're, it's already game over. And I just saw that it was actually like this cruel cyclical pattern I was in. I was like, let's make it unrealistic, high achieving perfectionism, you know, type A. And I think you have this high achieving thing too, right? It's like,
Kyley: yes. In spades.
Eva: Yes. And like, let's be super overachievers and then never fucking meet that because it's not actually possible.
Eva: I was like, it's cruel. It is like cruel and [00:22:00] unusual punishment. And I was like, Wow. Like, you know, sometimes you see something so clearly that all of a sudden you're just like, like it's easier to not get the fuck off.
Kyley: And I think the high expectations piece has been a really loud theme lately. And I had a really powerful conversation with my amazing therapist who I love. I was talking to my, a good friend. I have a good friend who's like a really, really, really powerful energy worker. Her name is Vanessa Love. If you ever want, like, just blow your socks off energy work, go book a session with her.
Kyley: Um, when I was saying, I was like, this, it's like, it's like getting an energy work session. It's like, it's like he he's just.
Eva: Mm
Kyley: You know, he's just doing deep spiritual work as a therapist. And I'm really like constantly like, I don't know if I found you, but thank you. Um. But anyway, [00:23:00] we were, we were talking about this, this very piece of like high, like too high expectations, which is like, and in some ways, I wouldn't be surprised if the thing we come to at the end of the conversation is like highly as too high of expectations.
Kyley: Um, but one of the things that he pointed out that I found really helpful was like in resetting kinder, more realistic expectations. You might have real grief, right? Some of those, some of the high, some of those high expectations are like, I should do all those things because then I'll be a good person.
Kyley: But some of them are also like, I want to do all of those. Some part of me wants to like call all of my friends all the time, and go to yoga every day, and meditate for an hour, and also sit down and make sure my kids have done their homework with the kindest, most patient mother in the world, and also be the world's best coach, and also post on social media three times a day, and also spend time with my husband, and also read my book.
Kyley: Like, I would love to do that every [00:24:00] day, and also You were all laughing because that's not, that's not possible. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I really loved his reflection is like, resetting your expectations might involve some grief,
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: right? Like there's some things that are important and also they don't fit or they don't fit right now or in this season.
Kyley: And there might be That might be, you might not love that. And that's, but it's also true
Eva: Okay. So I feel like this is like the juicy sort of like that normally we would get to towards the end, like the aha at the end, but I feel like it's coming early now.
Kyley: been prepping, I've been prepping for this conversation for a week and a half and
Eva: you get that intellectually, but I think you have yet to really let it in. And actually, that's not true. Because again, this is an ongoing challenge that showed up in your life.
Eva: And so there have been times already in the past where you've come [00:25:00] to me and you're just Sad, because you have this life that you want to live, of things that bring you joy. Like, they're not, they're all good for you, and you've been like Eva, and it fucking sucks, because I just cannot do it. I cannot do it, and that, and then I've seen you experience grief.
Eva: And I think it comes back down to that a little bit now, of also being like, okay, well first, like, first feeling the feelings that come with that, of like, we do have to set some realistic expectations and they're not, you're not gonna like them. Like, you're not gonna like them because of those 10 things you just said you, you will probably only get to do four.
Eva: And maybe sometimes you'll
Kyley: that would be a great day. Right. If I could do four things on that list in a given day, that's like, we're like all star high fiving ourselves before we go to bed, you know what I mean? Like. Oh,
Eva: piece. And then I think it's about, there's like [00:26:00] so much here I could say, like, but before we, there's so much to say, okay, but before I get too, like, Um, if that sounds depressing, you know, I just want to make a quick reminder to anyone who's listening who might be in the same stage of life is like, it's a season like that's this isn't forever, you know, like, it is a season, and like, all things pass, and this will pass.
Eva: And so it's not forever. But I do think that they're, it's hard. Like this is this kind of like, um, I think it's wisdom. It takes wisdom to fine comb through your shit and be like, of these ten really important things, I choose these three and And for now, for this stage of my life, and then yeah, feeling the grief and also I think like anger, the anger that comes with that because it's like what the fuck, you know, there's rage, I think with this sense of limitation
Kyley: that's interesting. I hadn't tapped into anger, but now that you've mentioned it, I'm sure it will show [00:27:00] up. I want to, I want to like underscore something you said, because I think it's important for anyone who's relates to this. And also it's very true of me, which is that intellectually, I know this is true intellectually.
Kyley: I know that I caused a lot of suffering by having too high standards for myself. No one else set them. I set them and then being really hard on myself. Yeah. I like that. Really hard on myself intellectually. I know that part of the solution to a routine that's sustainable and like the ease and also the creative flow and also all of the thing is about like this kind of compassion towards myself and um and emotionally it feels really scary that Someone would, someone would want something from me that I love, that I want to do, but I'm not talking about like, Oh my God, I don't like that person.
Kyley: Like, I'm talking about [00:28:00] like someone that I love shows up and like wants to talk or wants to
Eva: and needs you and
Kyley: and, and, and my knee and right, right. My, my, and I, and my. And I, because this is a real thing that happens for me, right? I mean, I, like someone that I love will reach out or I will know that something's going on or I will, cause I'm fucking psychic.
Kyley: So I'll just know I'll think about them every day for five days in a row. Right. And they have shit going on. And I, and I don't always have the space to show up the way that I would love to, and I get so hard on myself. In a way that then is unkind to them, because then I'm actually like, then I'm, then all I'm doing is putting all the energy towards shitting on myself instead of offering what I could offer, um, but I,
Eva: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Kyley: yeah, but I, Oh, it doesn't actually even need to be someone having a hard time, right? It could also just be like a fun invitation or it could be an opportunity to [00:29:00] collaborate with somebody. There's lots of different ways this could show up of like some kind of, you know, Nick calls them bid for bids for intimacy, right?
Kyley: Someone reaching out in some way. And, and I, and I, it's like, it's Intellectually, yeah, intellectually, I can, I can sit here and be like, yes, I have capacity versus I emotionally, it's like, we just slip into a black hole.
Eva: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: So I think, so that's what I mean when there's so much here to unpack, cause there's a lot of different angles that we can come at this with. I also want to like offer some like practical advice and all that stuff, but, but like, I think part of it is contending with what you make it mean.
Eva: When you're not available to your loved ones, someone reaches out to you with a bid for intimacy and you would love to answer that call like you really would, but you can't. And then what I suspect when we've talked about this is that it feels like fucking shit because you're letting people down. And yeah, it's a spiral of like, what does [00:30:00] it mean?
Eva: And I feel bad and then I'm resentful and I'm defensive and then I, or hide and I'm avoidant and all of these things. It's like, it's really dealing with that energy and all of that heaviness and all of those stories. And as you know, I'm just saying stuff that you already know, cause we've had this conversation offline and you pointed to them, but it is all about, can I love myself or trust that like I'm loved even if I can't answer this bid for intimacy?
Kyley: can I ask a question of you? Because you're in like a, you know, you just came on this world tour and now you're in Taiwan with a very busy schedule of like, you know, dealing with your parents health stuff. Like, what happens for you if someone reaches out? And you don't have capacity, like what's your process, like what, what's, what's your emotional landscape look like when someone reaches out and you don't have space or capacity,
Eva: That's a good question.
Kyley: because I don't watch you [00:31:00] get swallowed by a shame monster the way I do.
Eva: You know, what's so interesting is that like, when I, there have been periods of, you know, not just my life, but yeah, sure. Even more recently periods of my life where I was so busy and people were reaching out to me and I just like didn't answer, you know, like they were sending me really intimate messages and I, and just like no response from me.
Eva: And, um, there was a, there's a little bit of like, Oh, like I feel bad because I'm like blowing this person off or whatever, something. But it's more like, Hmm. What is the, I think you're, yeah, I want to take a time to think about. It's like, what is my internal landscape? It's really interesting because I've always been somebody who, like, uh, was really good at friendships that, like, didn't need to be maintained. You know what I mean? Like, you know, sometimes you have friends that you, like, don't need to talk to, but you're, like, still really good friends, and so there's almost this sense of, like, I don't think I have the same stories as you.
Eva: [00:32:00] There's a sense of, like, like, an acceptance of like, sometimes people, I'm not going to hear from people. And sometimes people just aren't going to hear from me. And that's just like expected to me. It's like, just, it's not a, there's no story of like, I'm doing it right or wrong or good or bad. It's just like, this is like, and, and I've always lived my life this way.
Eva: And it's, it's so not personal or I don't know. It just feels like built into the fabric. of, of, of my life. But, but I will also say, um, but yes, there are times when people make bids for intimacy. And I would just like, will not respond for months until eventually I, but the internal dialogue is like, I'm just really fucking busy.
Eva: And I think I can just give you the practical answer, which is that eventually when I come up for air, I reach out and I go, Hey, sorry, like I was in the fucking crazy thing, blah, blah, blah. My life was nuts, but here I am again. But yeah, there isn't that much internal dialogue. It's just like, I'm been fucking busy.
Eva: [00:33:00] And the other like strategic thing that I have done, though, is in this year, specifically, because when I was more busy, and there were bids for intimacy, and I didn't respond, or like, I could just sense that it'd been a long like a year since I had talked to somebody that Like it had just been way too long and I recently sent out a message to a couple of people being like hey girl I hope you know that I fucking love you and I appreciate your friendship and Also, just so you know, I'm just in a season of being really crazy right now, and you're probably not going to hear from me for a couple of months, and I love you, and I'll catch up with you again when I, like, have the time.
Eva: Like, so practical, you know, but like, but, but there was a true longing that came from a longing of being like, I miss these people, and, um, I want to let them know that I appreciate them, but I also just don't have time right now. So I sense that that might be more accessible to me, because I'm not, um, carrying the weight of, you know, guilt and shame.
Kyley: Yeah. Right. There's like, it's like I, [00:34:00] I've come a long way. a long way. Um, but it's like very much still a like debt energy, right? So it's like, you know, so you were saying like, okay, you come up for air and you're like, Hey, I've been so busy, but like, I'm back now. This is starting to ship it in the past, I would write that from a place of like, I am like, bravo, it would I would have like a kind of like, I have been like, I'm so sorry.
Kyley: I haven't I've been so busy. I'm like a real like,
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: You know, again, just this word on kindness, I keep using
Eva: Yeah. Like a beggar.
Kyley: Yes. Yes. And, and, um, you know, like I'm thinking of this line in Catholic mass where I, which eight years, I was like eight years old the first time I was like, I'm not saying that shit out loud, but there's this line that you're supposed to recite in Catholic mass that says, Lord, I am not worthy to receive you only say the word and I shall be healed, which I was like.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: But it's like those vibes right of like, I am and I think [00:35:00] actually that we've like reached somewhere that's like, it's like this unworthiness, right? Like, I'm unworthy of this friendship or I'm unworthy of this client or I'm unworthy of, you know, And I should say there are places where this is like the dial goes up, up or down, but it's like this I'm unworthy.
Kyley: Like maybe these like blessings in my life. And so like, if I perceive that I have made like the slightest mistake, it's like, Oh, let's get into gravel
Eva: Yes. Yes. Okay. Can I just talk about this for a second? Because I think that's like, you're hitting a really important point of like, I don't feel bad. Like, yes, I feel, I don't know how to explain it. There's a sense of like, Oh, like I want to be a better friend. you know, to this person, but it's not related to like, um, shame or like, I'm a bad person or I'm like a bad friend.
Kyley: You're not sorry. I just, I have to say something. You're not using your friends to prove your worth.
Eva: [00:36:00] yes. Boom. Wow. Ooh, that's good. No, let that in. Let that in. Let that in. Let that in. I'm, you know, there's plenty of ways that I use my worth actually to use people, use other things to prove my worth. But, but I think what I want to say is that how people react to us is based on they're a mirror of how we are.
Eva: So like, it's like, it's like, you know, when you are over apologetic about a situation and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. That person almost like It's like, Oh yeah, you should be over apologetic because they're responding to you. But when someone's like really sovereign and they come in and they don't even like know that because they don't actually have a story of badness, that other person responds to that too.
Eva: Not, do you know, not all the time, but do you know what I'm trying to say? And I, and again, I can't help but use like my partner, Tom, as an example is like, he doesn't respond to anybody. He doesn't answer fucking text messages. He's like. Just. So, M. I. A. and like, will not, like, will forget to show up for [00:37:00] client calls and like, and just all this stuff, like, he misses client calls, like, sorry, Tom, if you're ever, if you ever hear this, but like, I don't know, two times a week, you know, and, and he's apologetic as in like, oh, I don't want to waste your time.
Eva: But that doesn't come with a story of like, Badness like no self condemnation and it's it's almost like recognizing your own innocence. It's like Yeah, and when i'm not showing up to a situation Groveling because like i'm feeling shame. It's almost that like, um, it's the absence of that like fragility Do you know what I mean?
Eva: And when i'm like fragile then it's like then I also need you to like Love me and blah blah blah blah and you create this really You Um, a dependent cycle.
Kyley: Well, and it's what's interesting too, is. I mean, I love this anecdote about Tom and I have [00:38:00] had, I have some version of that that shows up in my client work, which is that like anyone who's been in one of my group programs or has worked with me one on one knows sometimes I run a few minutes late. And also, uh, sometimes a girl forgets to respond to messages.
Kyley: And I have, and I have had, and I have really transparent conversations with my clients about this. Right. So like just the other day I was talking to a client who also has ADHD and that's like part of like, Part of the container is talking about building an ADHD friendly business, and she sent me a bunch of beautiful messages, and my brain, like, object permanence doesn't exist, right?
Kyley: Ball rolls under the couch, I don't know this ball anymore. And so, um, I I have said to her in the call, I was like, Hey, I always say this transparently to clients like I occasionally like just forget. I try not to. I have some like, you know, I have some safety checks, but also it happens and I always tell clients like you have permission to remind me, right?
Kyley: I want you explicitly know that if you sent me something you [00:39:00] haven't heard within a back from it within a day or two, like you have permission to remind me and I would like it if you did. Um, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to a T, clients have, and also when I say like, I don't love the way that that might, you know, I want people to feel really safe and I don't love the way that for some people that might trigger discomfort and also like, I know who, I know how I'm wired, and to a T, clients reflect back, like And this woman said the same thing, like, it's actually really helpful.
Kyley: It's helpful to see someone model, like, this is how this has to work for me. Or like, if people say, like, this is helpful for me to, like, have to, like, practice advocating for, like, speaking up, like, this is a safe space for me to practice this thing that's hard for me in other places, right? I've had other clients be like, I knew that I had to go to the bathroom for a call, and I just didn't stress, and I knew you'd be fine if I was a minute late, right?
Kyley: So there's this, there's this way that there's certain areas where I watch how the more deeply I give myself permission [00:40:00] to, like, you know, Not have, not, not be achieving some absurdly high standard. It is not only safer for me, but like weaves, actively weaves safety into their experience for other people. And, and I would like more of that.
Eva: You would like more
Kyley: I would, I would like to give myself like just deeper access to that. Like I, you know, it's like I watch it. I know it's, this is the crazy thing too about like the intellectual knowing versus the emotional defense mechanisms. I, it's like, I, I know this because it's intellectual, but I also know it because I watch where it already works.
Kyley: And yet our defense mechanisms are just so fucking strong.
Eva: Well, I actually think there's something here for you. That would probably be like a huge practice.
Eva: Like, I'm almost hearing you say, like, if you could just give yourself complete permission to be who you [00:41:00] are, I actually think somehow, like, life would become more efficient for you. It's like life, you're not trying to pander to life, like, life would actually work in your favor. But it all really comes down to you, like, really giving yourself full permission to be the way that you are.
Eva: And like trust, like, and also I think there's an element of like needing trust too, because I think there's some idea of like, oh, but if I just like let myself, like, essentially what I've been playing with a lot recently is like letting things be totally out of control, which is your area of expertise, by the way.
Eva: It's like, and I don't mean that, and I mean that, you know, that you're the chaos queen, like you, you have helped me embrace the very real concept of chaos. And, and there's something here of like, it's. It's that I think there's something paradoxical here about like, Oh, I think once the minute that you let things be totally out of control, you are going to experience some [00:42:00] version of liberation of, of where life gets to meet you on your terms. And that can be empowering as fuck.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: It's it is actually I think Tom is just I think of you often I think of Tom because he's a perfect example of someone who is a one three in, um, human design, which is
Kyley: Oh, is he also one three girl? You got a type
Eva: Yes, I do. I really do. But for people who don't know, that means like, there's this like creative energy and you just like throw things, like the analogy I've heard is like, you throw things against the wall and see if it sticks.
Eva: It's like the mad scientist. Yes. The mad scientist. But to him, I think in the past, he also had a story like, you know, it's also our conditioning and how, how society tells us we should be. This is what a successful person looks like. They're organized and they're on time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Eva: Like that's, that's the, that's the, Sign of like a really put together person and being put together is also really [00:43:00] valued, right? but I what I've seen in him is like complete acceptance of like his kooky like kooky mad scientist thing and like really freaking owning it and Letting that work towards his advantage
Kyley: I thought I heard somebody talking about me. Oh no, well, we were talking about being a creative kooky explorer. We were talking about me being a creative
Eva: mama's a mad. Your mama's a mad scientist
Kyley: have some of that in you too. So that might be why you thought we were talking about you. You said someone talking about being really creative and a little wild. You have the best day at school. I'm going to pick you up from school. Okay. Because we have birdies dance class. You look so handsome today. You shut the door behind you have the best day.
Eva: Bye, Desi!
Kyley: I know, I know. I'm, we'll be up here probably. Okay. Thanks for [00:44:00] the,
Eva: No problem.
Kyley: for the interjection. Love you Desi. That was really sweet Also. It's getting so grown up. Do you see how he like, didn't make any, he like poked his head and he just waved from the door. He didn't come like barreling in until I like waved and said he could and then he didn't.
Kyley: He just like snugged in. He didn't
Eva: yes.
Kyley: just like on the keyboard.
Eva: Oh, and you're just gonna miss those days. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: I mean, maybe I don't have.
Eva: Well, it's like, you know, the climbing, because it comes also with the climbing on your lap energy. I
Kyley: yes, but I, I guess the point I was going to make is, I don't have, and maybe this will shift, actually, this is interesting, and this is an aside, but I don't know if we should do the podcast or not, it's probably related, okay,
Kyley: slight, slight detour, because my son just came in the room, gave me the cutest, sweetest hug before he left for school, um, And, uh, it prompted something that I thought was an aside, but I actually think it's connected. And so we're gonna, we're just [00:45:00] gonna bomb
Eva: Oh, there. Yep.
Kyley: Um, was we started to talk about how he's gonna be eight in January and how like much bigger he is and also how like he didn't like younger Desi would have like smashed all the keys and like been a little more disruptive in his hug.
Kyley: And, um, And what I was going to say is, listeners might know, or if you've been listening to the show for a long time, one of my number one fears when they were little was like, I'm going to regret I'm not paying enough attention. I'm not loving this. I'm going to be filled with regret. They're going to start to get older, and I'm going to look back, and I'm going to go, I did it wrong.
Kyley: I mean, we have episodes, a lot of episodes where I talked about this,
Kyley: and maybe it's just waiting in the wings that it'll slam me someday in the future.
Eva: cut out there. You said you don't have those yet.
Kyley: I don't have regret.
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: I was so afraid when they were younger that I would be plagued with regret, and it was one of the biggest things that created, like, distance, and [00:46:00] like, and kind of took some of the pleasure out of parenting for me, was the, like, pressure to, like, you know, Soak it all up. I don't I don't have like they are both they are school aides like they are not babies I have a whole bunch of babies coming into my life in the next year One of whom was just born last Saturday, and I can't wait to hold that baby and then give it back I don't I look at little little pictures of my kids and I feel like oh, oh, they're so sweet and cute and then I'm like psyched to turn to my five and almost eight year old and I I'm dropping that in here to this context because I don't actually entirely know why, but Samoa feels connected.
Kyley: But, um, like I don't have regret about that. And I really love this. And I, I guess I was so afraid that I was doing it wrong or that I was like focused, that I was, I was so afraid that I was doing it wrong [00:47:00] specifically in how I was showing up. And it turns out, Well, it turns out that wasn't true. I
Eva: Well, I think why this is applicable is like, let's, let's say. Like this is where wisdom comes in is like let's learn from your experience Which is so valuable because I think it's also kind of applies to what you're saying here Now it's like you think you're doing it wrong. You're doing your life wrong When you're not able to get these 10 things done and actually like you're not like I want you to actually take that And superimpose it right now onto this very instance in your life, because it's just a thought, like a fear, like of a projected future too, of like that you're, that you're doing it wrong and that it should be some other way.
Eva: And it's like, wait, but, but you have experience, like life is actually showing you, you're not doing it wrong. Like this is it.
Kyley: have to sit with that for a second. I have to really let that in for a second. I was wracked with guilt that [00:48:00] I was doing it wrong as a mom and it turns out I loved that chapter and I and I have made improvements but I I don't have regret and so yes I am once again I'm restating exactly what you just said, but I am once again convinced that I'm living my life wrong. You just said that phrase, and I just felt the truth of that go through my whole body. Like, Oh, I, I'm afraid I'm living my life wrong. And then I'm going to wake up. It's the same exact thing.
Kyley: And then I'm going to wake up and I'm going to think I did all the wrong things. And so I'm like, almost, it's about like, overwhelm, trying to do all the things, high standards is also a little bit of like, like a, like, frantic kind of [00:49:00] chicken running around, like, which one do I do? Which one do I do?
Kyley: They're all important. I don't want to regret anything. I don't want to make any mistakes. I don't want to fuck this up.
Eva: Okay. I want it. Yes.
Kyley: one last thing, in part because it's like, This is so great, which is that feels nice because I think an older me was like I don't want to fuck this up because I'm a piece of shit, but and that's still there But it's also like I don't fuck this up because this is so great I have so many like great beautiful things in my life And I and I like I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to fuck this up because it's really good Go ahead, Serge
Eva: I'm just like bursting because I where I'm taking this is like I just had this huge flood of like whoa like this is what flow is all about because I just saw like when you Are free of all of that energy that like chaotic like which one do I do guilt shame? Like I'm doing it wrong. Essentially. I'm doing it wrong It's like it's [00:50:00] taking up so much of your energy and I just saw this image of like this It's like a waterfall like water like water Washing all that away and then all of a sudden you're like left with all of this space You didn't previously have an energy that allows you to like move through your day Really efficiently, like way more efficiently without effort, like with out effort girl Like that is flow and that like exists and I touch into it sometimes and I touch back out But it's like it's creative.
Eva: It's like spontaneous and also I still want to talk about structure but I think what I'm sensing into is like what's available to you is like It's all about releasing self condemnation, releasing concepts of wrong, and then you don't even have to do anything actually, because this is how it works, right?
Eva: So we peel away the layers of the onions, like this is what spiritual growth is, it's like we don't gain anything, we just get rid of everything that gets into the way of our like, like our [00:51:00] natural, like, intelligence. Essentially. And so I see that as like totally available to you. And the assignment is like, really like no, like, like the absence of self condemnation and like, and wrong, which is a tall order.
Eva: Like, you know, like this is,
Kyley: Sure, I'm, I'm really loving this image that you're speaking to, which is like, not only is it unkind and create suffering, which we like have clocked, but it's also like just a waste of energy.
Eva: oh, it takes, it takes a lot of energy. It takes up so much fucking energy. Like even just like a little bit of awareness. will help you see, like, that's where a lot of your energy is going.
Kyley: And then the energy also to, like, to try to diffuse it, right? So it's like the energy drain of, like, the self condemnation, and [00:52:00] then the energy it takes to try to, like, rein in the self condemnation, right? Which, you know, like, that feels like energy well spent in some ways, but it's relentless, right?
Eva: Well, you're still caught up in the back and forth. It's, it's, you're still in the cycle where you could just exit the cycle.
Kyley: So, okay, listeners, if you were listening to this and you are overwhelmed, which you probably are because you're a human in 2024 or whenever you're listening to this, what Eva, the, like, is like the fucking jam that Eve is dropping for all of us is that part of the answer to not being overwhelmed is to drop our, like, Obsession with self criticism because we think it's going to solve the problem. We think it's going to like come up with the systems or come up with a solution.
Kyley: We think it has some like knowledge or wisdom or answers because the voice thinks it does, right? That's [00:53:00] what it's like shattering on about but it is actually like the number one. It's like take take the baseline. fullness of your life, right? And then the, the, the, the inner critic or the self condemnation is like a steroid that turns that fullness into just like total overwhelm.
Eva: oh my God. Yes. Like I actually feel like, I mean, again, speaking from personal experience y'all, like this has been my life for a long time. It's like, it's like, so much of overwhelm and like suffering that we have around time and productivity, like it's Because that's what it does when we're overwhelmed, it turns on the, the self attack, like they go hand in hand.
Eva: And so anyway, I guess what I want to say is just like, the work, some of the big work of my life has been like, um,
Eva: yeah, just like, I don't know, it's something as simple as just seeing that that's not, [00:54:00] that's not working. That's not working. And it sounds so simple, but that's kind of it.
Kyley: The, the thing that's also amusing to me is how often this comes up in my own book. Coaching when I have, for my business clients, because like one of the, anyone, again, anyone who's worked with me intimately knows people will come into a session. They're like, okay, I need to figure out my launch strategy.
Kyley: And I'm like, great. And then we spend the first 40 minutes like peeling back all the self condemnation and pressure and like self blame and like shit that's wrapped up in whatever they're trying to accomplish. Maybe the first 80 of the 90 minutes and then and only then will I let us go to building the strategy, because a strategy built on self condemnation is just inefficient.
Kyley: It doesn't, right, aside from, it's not fun, we abandon it halfway through because it doesn't feel good. And also it's actually a [00:55:00] huge waste of our energy. It's not efficient. It's not flow.
Eva: Yeah. Okay. But there's this other piece that I want to add because before Desi came in, I feel like there was this thing that I was talking about of like, oh yeah, embracing like the mad scientist. I foresee for you, or it's almost like, or maybe this is like what I want for you is like. you know, you're, you're really good.
Eva: You have this whole thing that I would love to embrace more of, which is like this, like queen energy. Like there's this, you know, like, you know, I almost feel like your assignment in life here is partly, maybe it's the Taurus in you or something, but there's this like thing where like, you're just, you know, that you're meant to be treated like a goddess.
Eva: Like there's this thing where like, and that's like what you, like, it's almost like what you came here to also like, I don't know, get from life. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I want
Kyley: do because spirit tells me this all the fucking time [00:56:00] and I'm like, okay, I mean, I've come a long way, but actually, yes, I like regularly in journey and meditation, spirit is just like, here's your throne. We're going to make you sit in it. That's your meditation. Just sit in your throne. And we're
Eva: And that's what you do for people so well. You do this for your clients. You do this for your, like the women in your life, you do this for me of like reminding me of like my power, you know, that's like a big medicine that you offer. And I want to see more of that in how you. Relate to like people being in your time because it is true because I am on the receiving end of it I do see you coming towards me like if a real apologetic energy Um around like if you can or cannot do something I almost want to encourage you to be a bitch and and like and and What I mean by that is like you have a limited amount of time and resources.
Eva: So people should feel honored You [00:57:00] To be in your space but what I actually often see for you again is this apologetic energy because I think it's really wound up in like goodness and Like yeah, like having your worth being measured by What your friendships blah blah blah and I think that's how I perceive people who really do have a short amount of time and they're like you and I know this sounds crazy because I don't actually want you to be like a dick to people, but there's this energy of like, you should be like, so like, lucky and happy, like, to be deemed worthy of my time, because I really only have so little of it.
Eva: And it's such a change in energy where you go from being the beggar to being the queen, essentially. And that's going to be tough for a lot of people. And I'm saying that, you know, like, Fully well knowing that I want you to be a bitch and that's gonna suck for me, too. Because sometimes I will make a bid for intimacy with you or like I want to do a program with you or whatever and [00:58:00] As much as I would love for you to be like, okay.
Eva: Yes, like I could do it, you know I'll make time or whatever. Because I'm your real friend, though, what I really want for you is your, is your liberation, even if that means I'm not going to get what I want. And I think, like, that's the kind of friendship that you should be looking for in your life.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Like, like, the kind of friendship that's like, I'm not gonna get what I want.
Eva: But if it means that you, like, it's a compromise. It's not like I, like you're walking all over me, but like, I need to meet you where you are. Okay.
Kyley: What I am hearing in that also is like really , uh, really centering for myself. I'm the gift, and I think this applies to everybody who's listening. Like, this [00:59:00] isn't just a Kylie thing, , right? If I'm using. External things to tell them and external people to prove that I'm worthy. Cause I think I'm not worthy.
Kyley: Right. If I'm using people to like bandage where I think I'm not good, I mean, that's unkind for all of us and also creates this like, this vicious cycle of overwhelm. But what you're offering is like, if I center, like, sometimes I say to myself in my business, like I'm the talent,
Eva: Mm
Kyley: one of the, that's one of the ways that I really like embrace.
Kyley: Like, yeah, I'm the talent. Like,
Eva: I love that.
Kyley: My team exists to help me get shit done because I'm the talent. My job is to be the talent,
Eva: the Beyonce. You're the Queen B. Mm
Kyley: yes, like Taylor Swift is not like paying attention to her Calendly links, right? Full disclosure, I was just fucking around with Calendly yesterday. So I, you know, this [01:00:00] is a work in progress, but part of that is also like, There are things that are not your job to pay attention to, but also it's like, the job for the talent is to like, just be as authentically and unhinged a version of themselves as they possibly can be, right?
Kyley: And and and there is a little bit of a like You know, like there is a little bit of entitlement, like that could, that could have like a bitchiness to it if I, but, but I don't, I don't carry it out that way. It's just the, it's, it's my reminder of what you're trying to speak to, which is like, everyone's lucky to, and I'm feeling uncomfortable as I'm saying this out loud, please.
Kyley: I feel very uncomfortable saying this out loud because it's not fully integrated, but it's like, everybody's lucky to be in your energy. Um, and so it gets to be on your [01:01:00] terms. And in there is an idea that like, that could be true of all of us, right? Like, right? Like, you're also the talent. It also gets to be on your terms. And then, and then the connection point, yeah.
Eva: Like, I
Kyley: Do our terms meet up?
Eva: Yeah, exactly. Do our terms meet up? Do our terms meet up? Yeah. And also sometimes there's like some communication necessary and some like, um, collaboration and, and compromise or whatever. But I think the point that I want you to really like embrace or tap into is like, yeah, yes, I hear what you're saying.
Eva: Like you're, you're the gift and we all are. But I also think this ties into like what you're saying about, um, like how I think it ties into something about like, being realistic. It ties back to being realistic too, because I think the reason that you apologize sometimes is because, or how I perceive this [01:02:00] again, this is all like a read, but like, um, you have this anyway, it's because again, cause you think that you're doing it wrong because you think that you're doing it wrong and that like, um, that it should be another way.
Eva: And. And that you have these really high expectations and so you should be able to do like all ten of these things. And I, I suspect that like, if that story wasn't there, when someone made a bid for your affection or your intimacy, and you said no, or you didn't answer, or actually, I don't actually think you wouldn't answer.
Eva: I think if you had more space, you would just say no, you just say no. Um, it would be like, it would be because you have such a clear honoring of like, who you are, and like, how much you're already doing. And like, Of course I can't do this. Like, I just, I know, like, it's really clear and, and it, and it's not personal and you don't have to make someone else wrong to, like, own who you are.
Eva: And it would just be, like, such a clear, [01:03:00] kind, neutral, no, like,
Kyley: know what you're also pointing to? Yes, a thousand percent. Yes. If I didn't have the story, I would hear the answer. I would hear the real answer and I would say the real answer and then I wouldn't beat myself up about it. And what you're also pointing to is this little sneaky suspicion I've had for a little while.
Kyley: Overwhelm is a really great defense mechanism. If you're, if you. are a people pleaser who has a hard time saying no. It's really great to be overwhelmed because you have a built in excuse. I can't. Oh, I meant to. I'm so busy. Oh, you know, right. There's this way of like, we were talking about chaos, like divine chaos is this beautiful thing earlier, but there's the kind of like disembodied frenetic, uncomfortable chaos.
Kyley: of suffering that is like that feeling that we think of as overwhelmed. And it's a very, it's doing a great, it's doing, it's a great protector for me, because if I'm too scared [01:04:00] to say no, and I have an excuse.
Eva: I think what we're tapping into, like, I think that sometimes we are really overwhelmed, you know what I mean? And that's like real, but I almost feel like what you're talking about is like, you're up leveling because you're like, I know that that's no longer, like, sometimes it's real and when it's there, like, we honor that, right?
Eva: Like, that's how I'm feeling. Like, I'm overwhelmed. I'll honor it. But there is an up leveling where you're like, Oh, like, I'm, I see that I'm capable. actually now of more. And that's just like the overwhelmed story. Um, like you said, it's just like a comfortable place to be, but it's not,
Kyley: I can.
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: And I think part of why I wanted to talk about discipline is because I've been sort of part of, Part of the tug towards discipline [01:05:00] has been this knowing that maybe I don't need to be overwhelmed anymore because, and this is actually clicking it now, maybe I don't need to be overwhelmed anymore because maybe now, ooh, I can, I can do the thing where I say no.
Eva: Yes. Yes. I think, thank you. I think that's such a good point. It's like, I actually think that if you, what's scary about letting go of overwhelm is that you're going to have to do the other harder thing, which is to set boundaries and say no, and that's feel scarier. But the only reason that that's even like a possibility in this conversation is because you're ready.
Eva: Like, that's what I mean. It's like, it's coming up to the surface because you're, you're, you're ready and you can see through
Kyley: And I'll have to say no, not because I have this excuse of like, oh, I'm too busy. My life is busy. But because I will have to say
Eva: I'm choosing myself and I'm choosing these other, you know,
Kyley: And, um, and I'm afraid that it will hurt people and I'm afraid [01:06:00] that as a result that I will get hurt, um, right, that their disappointment will hurt me and also it actually will be more kind because, and I have to, I'm saying this out loud because I, I need to hear it, right?
Kyley: I'm afraid to say no. That's just the like, you know what? I wish that I could, but I can't. Um, I, I, I'm afraid to say that just like simple no, because I'm afraid that it will hurt people, but I know that I'm actually hurting people a lot more because of this whole like overwhelm thing, right? Um,
Eva: Oh, I'm so with you, girl. So with you, girl, this is very similar to the conversation that we had last week and listen about listeners. If you haven't listened to last week's episode about. We did a whole thing with my mother and caretaking and I don't know. I, I think we
Kyley: of my favorites.
Eva: It's a really good fucking episode about how to love people who are hard to love.
Eva: I'm in the same situation of like, it's essentially kind of saying, you [01:07:00] actually said this, I think you said like, I have to, um, like choose myself or validate, like acknowledge that my needs are valid. And that. feels really scary sometimes because it means that we have to face the shame that we, that comes up with, like, or if there is any shame, it's going to come up and tell us some point to some story of badness or unlovability.
Eva: And that is scarier. Like, that's what we have to contend with when we choose ourselves and, and choose our needs, is that it means that we might disappoint some people. Because essentially when I'm talking with my mom, it's like, there's so many things that I want to say no to her about, and I'm just so afraid that like, it just brings up all this shame in me, all of the shame in me.
Eva: And um, that's like a gift, I think, [01:08:00] because it's showing me where I'm still not loving myself unconditionally. And it is rough. Oh,
Kyley: You know, it's kind of like washing in right now is this, you know, talking about overwhelm as like a defense mechanism and like a protection and the realization of like, maybe I don't need overwhelm.
Kyley: One of the things that I'm receiving as you're speaking is. know, if overwhelm is a protective mechanism, and I'm in this moment, like, okay, I mean, I don't need overwhelm. I'm observing how my, like, spirit and energy has been, like, enmeshed with shame for a long time. And I've been on a journey for a while, like, making peace with shame, like, you know, befriending, loving, letting it be a portal into love. But there's something here about [01:09:00] Like essentially being willing to let go of my attachment to shame, like my, like, almost like addiction to, and like enmeshment with shame as a way of being.
Eva: 100 percent because it's like so tied up with our identity. Like, do you know, like, okay, maybe let's not even go there. Let's, let's, before we, before I even like intellectualize that, let's just like, take a moment to acknowledge like how real that is for so many of us. It's like, whether it's because it's like a comfortable pattern or it's like what we know, or, um, there's a safety in it almost, you know, it's like this familiarity. Go ahead.
Kyley: There's also, so there was a long period where I just experienced deep shame all the time without even being able to name that it was shame. I called it [01:10:00] anxiety, right? But anxiety was just trying to keep me out of and also attached to the shame. And then I've been on a journey for a while of like, You know, like learning to be friends with the shame, but that has also been this like, I go in, I like, wait, it's like a lot of tending and I've like formed a lot of my spiritual experiences and growth and expansion out of this, like, tending to shame and like efforting around and reworking shame.
Kyley: And so there's this Identity layer that was just like, it was the only thing I knew. And then there's this identity layer of like, I am the one who befriends this monster, right? And like, this is like my labor. And this is my, my, I've been thinking a lot about the question connected to discipline. It's like, what am I living in devotion to?
Kyley: And in some ways I've been, I think really living in devotion to like, Loving essentially like learning how to love these like really scary parts of myself shame being, I think, often the
Eva: Like shadow work. Essentially,
Kyley: [01:11:00] Yeah. Right. And I think there's something in here that's like, also, you could just let go of it.
Eva: Well,
Kyley: Not in a gaslighting way.
Kyley: Right. But just in a like,
Eva: I think now you can, I think you can now, because you did all that tending. But what we want to be careful of is like, we don't over tend. Like essentially, you've done all the tending. And I think you're wise enough to catch on and be like, okay, wait, but wait, I'm doing that thing again, where it was really good for me for a while, but now I'm over identified with it.
Eva: And my whole life is about doing shadow work and it's like, well. Wait, what if I just want to fucking go play?
Kyley: Right. And, and I, you know, it's like when I was like walking, working through the Liz breakup, right. There's a point in the breakup where you're like, right. Okay. We just have to be done, right? There's a point where you're like, want to be done and you're not done, which you were very kindly would kind of point out often, like, you're just not done yet. And at a certain point, you just have to decide, like, I have, there is nothing left for [01:12:00] me here, right? In the tending, in the tending in that case to the breakup, there was a point in which, there's a point where I wanted to be done and it wasn't done and there was a point in which I kind of didn't want it to be done and it was done, right?
Kyley: I didn't, I, I realized like, oh, I'm tending something that actually like,
Eva: Yeah
Kyley: for me anymore. There's no more like big healing to uncover. The healing is like, we just let go and That feels like this moment. Like I've been really intentional for a while about like, life gets to be fun.
Kyley: What I'm feeling in this moment as we're having this conversation about shame and like, maybe it's not a garden that needs your tending in the same way. It's how often we look to life to tell us that we're done, like to tell us that we've arrived at these places that we want to go, right? And we like look for life to tell us, yep, you've arrived, but we are actually going to have to be the ones to [01:13:00] decide.
Eva: is ultimately a blessing I think it can feel really really tough but like also think there's something so empowering about that You know,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: yeah I, I would, I mean, it sounds like you're already reaching this place. Like I can sense that it's something that's dropping in for you and you know, like listeners, you know, we're talking about shame, but I'm sure you all have your own thing.
Eva: Maybe for something as someone else. It's like not, it's something, something, you know, different, but similar. But I think a helpful question is like, you know, who, what are you afraid would happen? Like if you, if you didn't feel shame, like, you know, like if, you know, What are you afraid would happen if you let go of all of your shame or if you lived life shame free?
Eva: And again, there's this,
Kyley: Shamelessly. Yeah.
Eva: yeah, I mean, there's a lot of this. Sometimes people I sometimes I ask people that question, like if they're like, of course, all these good things would happen. But there's also, it's just a way to get into touch with like, why do you [01:14:00] hold on to it? You know? Yes. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Kyley: and I think what we're talking about here too is not like that I would never experience shame anymore, but I basically, like, I still think I need it. That's what's being revealed to me is that I still think I need it. And I think we're talking about not banishing the emotion, but releasing the attachment and the like need and the way in which I have these cycles of like, Loki feeding on it. What would happen is that Queen, that's what would happen. What would happen is that, like, without the shame, I am, I am that Queen energy, which is scary and disruptive and, you know, causes harm because she doesn't give a fuck to, like, placate everybody else and And, ironically, the number one reason why I'm afraid to be [01:15:00] that queen, the number one reason why I'm afraid to, like, just say no, is because if they're disappointed, I feel shame. Right? Like, the, the number one reason why I'm afraid to be the queen, if I'm honest with myself, is because Because the Kylie who disappoints people ends up feeling shame. But if I'm not attached to shame,
Eva: Mm hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Kyley: then they can be disappointed. And I might even have a wave of shame, but again, I just don't have to like, grasp it with my claws.
Eva: Yeah. I think, yeah, I think there's like a big cycle there. And to add another gift that I feel like you've given me so many times, I mean, it's essentially, You're this is like your version of like, I think we did some pretty, I think we did some awesome episodes or maybe just one, maybe go back and listen to this resonates with you.
Eva: But like episodes about being misunderstood, like I have to be willing to be misunderstood. And I feel like you've [01:16:00] really just sort of like laid that out for me very direct, you know, very directly. And I think we both need to, I think we're in this place of practicing, like we also need to be willing to disappoint people.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we need to be willing to disappoint some motherfuckers. And by motherfuckers, I mean people who we care about, like people who we care about deeply. And we have to be willing to, and that's like, that's really, it's almost like, yeah. And again, I'm bringing my mother here. I have to be willing to disappoint her.
Eva: And that feels so sad and difficult and, and like, just like some heartbreak there too. But it's almost like, and, It's not like I'm testing life, but it's, it's, it's, I've been brought to these moments of being shown unconditional love of like, can I disappoint this person who I love so much and discover that I'm still safe?
Eva: Like, there's something here for me about wanting to discover, like, the issue is not, not, [01:17:00] not, not avoiding disappointing her. It's like, that's gonna happen and probably has happened, you know, whatever, throughout our entire lives, but like the willingness to do that and see if if, like. God, life, reality, still loves me and deems that I'm worthy.
Kyley: And when we're really in sovereignty around our needs, When we don't have a bunch of, you know, shame and story attached to their existence, it creates all of this amazing opportunity for connection. Like Birdie, who's five, really, really, really loves spending time with her mom and is like in peak, you know, uh, do you want to play with me energy?
Kyley: And sometimes I love that. And sometimes I don't, right. And, um, we had a really cool conversation last week when I was putting her to bed [01:18:00] about like playing. I can't remember. I can't remember exactly how it came about, but basically I said something to her, like, you know, spending time with you is one of my favorite things in the whole world.
Kyley: Like spending time with you and your brother is like Just one of the most important things and the most fun things for me in the whole world. And also, sometimes I just really love to be alone. And it's just important to me. And I really love like kind of to have my time reading my book or, you know, quiet time. And for context, what's not often when I, when I ask for that alone time, it's not always easy for her, right? It's, it's, it's sometimes disappointing or frustrating for her. And I said that to her and she looked at me and she said, yeah, I like alone time sometimes too.
Eva: Mm
Kyley: And it was just like incredibly emotionally mature conversation with a five year old in which, A, I'm modeling something that I think is helpful for her.
Kyley: Uh, but B, there was like a really cool kind of connection there that was I felt different and felt richer than if I just like put out like forced myself to do the thing that I didn't [01:19:00] want to.
Eva: Well, that's another version of Queen Energy, essentially. And I think what is so interesting to me is, again, I get it. I get that the fear is that like, if we adopt this Queen Energy, I'm just gonna like, burn through everything that I love. Or I think, you know, you were just saying like, what were you afraid if you didn't have shame, then you'd adopt the Queen Energy and then that you would, your, I don't know, your true colors would show that you'd hurt all these people or whatever the story might be.
Eva: But you, you've already also given me from like, lived experience, actually, many examples of how actually when you just are who you are, like with your clients, like you're saying, and that's like, you own that, that is actually received so well because people want that. People want examples of liberation and, and truth and people, sovereign people, or you have a conversation with your, an extremely intelligent conversation with your five year old daughter.
Eva: And That happens too. So I mean, this is this, I'm also like saying this for myself, because I'm like, [01:20:00] what's possible, you know, like, if I just, I've had all these things about like, afraid of disappointing my parents, because what are all these factors with them being sick and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Eva: And I can go on and I can make up all of these stories about how it's going to be like the worst. But, you know, it's like they say on the internet, what if it turned out better than you ever expected? Yes.
Kyley: because I've been tending lovingly Garden of Shame for a long time. I don't actually have a ton of stories like meaning. Meaning, I don't have a bunch of stories that feel alive and I'm attached to that when I honor my truth, everyone's going to be mad at me.
Kyley: It's, it's like the stories in large part have burned away. And what's left is just like, you know, like essential oil. That is, I'm afraid that without shame, I will feel shame. [01:21:00] I basically am attached to shame to protect myself from feeling
Eva: Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. Thank you for speaking to this really crazy human thing that we do all the freaking time. It's like, let me feel fear now. So I don't feel fear later. Like that's essentially what we're doing all the freaking time. It actually comes from a very loving place. We're just trying to protect ourselves, but,
Kyley: I
Eva: broken system, inefficient system.
Eva: And I think when we see it and again, could it be that the noticing is enough just, just to notice, like really, really notice it and then see if it can like, If you notice it every time, then it slowly dissolves.
Kyley: mean, and what I'm also, and I'm feeling too in like, you know, my kind of practice is like, I'm seeing shame as we're talking, I'm feeling shame, which has been just like, you know, scary monster that I've kind of befriended. I'm watching as we were having this conversation, this image of the scary monster that I befriended material, like transform into that fucking little [01:22:00] kid. And I am feeling, when we hang up, I'm going to sit with this for longer. I am feeling the freedom of setting her free. She's done a great job, Shane. She has kept me safe. She has walked me through incredible transformation. She has done an incredible job. And I'm feeling like you are free to return to being this little kid that you actually have always been and like, go run around in the woods.
Eva: Oh, my stomach is doing like, there's like something going on in my belly right now that I think he's here really here for me because I'm right there with you, sister. Like, yeah, like what an interesting, what a wonderful investigation. What if I don't like need shame the way that I think I do and I could set it free in this like really loving way.
Eva: Woof. Aye
Kyley: Like, thank you for your service. I [01:23:00] love you. You are free for early retirement. Go have fun in the woods.
Eva: Can you do like a recording? It's just a suggestion. Like I was like, I would love for you to do your magical witchy shit to like do a recording on helping people like really like say goodbye to this whole thing. I just do it like I would just listen to that meditation. It yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Eva: It would be some like energy work type shamanic thing where we can really Dissolve, disidentify from shame, or I don't know, um, or, or fill in the blank too, maybe. But there's something here for me, something here for me too, because shame lives, we all feel it, like it's, yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. I, yeah, I wrote down, um, a journey to set shame [01:24:00] free.
Eva: Yeah, like a graduation, we don't really need it anymore.
Kyley: What's interesting too, is I was like reaching for a piece of paper to write down this note and I grabbed a piece of paper in which the top half of it I had written down, everything works out for me. And now the second half is. Set shame free. I see what you're doing, Spirit. Uh, listeners, uh, in the spirit of honoring my commitments, I'm not making a promise in the time of recording, but
Eva: Nice.
Kyley: if I do record this, which right after we hang up, which I might, and I manage to like put it on a website somewhere, the link for it will be in the show notes.
Kyley: So I'm not promising, but you will find out when you go to the show notes if there's a journey for you or not.
Eva: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. See, you work with how you work, you know,
Kyley: Mm hmm.
Eva: smart working. Okay. So the funny thing about this whole conversation is the same, same thing happened last week. It's like, we started talking about like discipline. It started off being like, okay, let's like explore discipline.
Eva: And it really [01:25:00] evolved into this other rich conversation. And why am I bringing this up? Because, oh, I do want to like, I love, you know, how I, I love tying things together. And maybe we'll have like another conversation about discipline, because I still think there's so
Kyley: like, this is the foundation, right? We went to the
Eva: Or let's maybe let's maybe let's do like a part two, because I would really love to talk about what I hear you say, speak to is like, intuition versus structure.
Eva: You know, it's like these. Yeah. Yeah. or like, you know, the less helpful terminology of like masculine feminine energy or whatever, and how we get imbalanced, you know, between like intuition, overly using our intuition and not having any structure at all, or using all structure and having no intuition. Like, it's kind of, I think there's some of that at play too when we think about discipline. But just as a callback and to like, bring a full circle, We may not get to, okay, but like, because I still hear you, you're saying there is, I think, still like a pull towards like, it would just feel good for your [01:26:00] nervous system if you had some structure, right? And, and, and I do think that this is just part one, but me, but I suspect that what's so important about part one is like, this is tending to your nervous system.
Eva: And like, Everything that we discussed about, like, you know, being willing to disappoint people, letting go of shame, having grief for not being able to do all the things that you want, and also, like, not, not, not expending all of your energy in, like, the apology whatever loop of, like, the energy of all that shit, is actually, I think, gonna, like, clear up so much energy for you.
Eva: And, and maybe the intention could be like, and then also to let, like, and discipline, allowing that to come in easily and effortlessly, as my beloved likes to say, like, I allow it to come in easily and [01:27:00] effortlessly. And I just, those are my favorite instructions.
Kyley: Yes. Yes. Yes. Easy and effortlessly because that's what we want from our structure and our flow and our existence. So yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. This feels. Like, a beautiful place to wrap up, to be continued, um, what's bringing you joy?
Eva: Well, as we discussed last week, I am going through a season of challenge being here in Taiwan. And so it's just a more, a lot of stuff is just up for me. And here's the thing. This is why I feel like I'm a fucking sicko. You know, we've talked about type.
Eva: What is it type one type type type B fun type B fun Which is like the kind of fun that is like grueling sometimes like people who like to run a fucking marathon Or who'd like do Brikham yoga every day. That's like I Love type a fun. I do but I also like type B fun [01:28:00] and Yeah, it's just so weird because Kylie, you know, I've been having a hard time and it fucking sucks when I'm in it But I actually can say, and I think this is the main thing that's, that's bringing me joy because, because everything actually feels really kind of challenging right now.
Eva: Um, it's, it's everything that's, it's all front and center. But I guess the part that brings me joy is like, I'm also getting so much fucking out of this, like so much. And you know, you, you went through a whole rebirthing process last year with your breakup with Liz, you know, so. But there is like, oh my god, I'm like getting hit with like epiphany and aha moment after moment and like seeing myself more clearly and and There's something really Nourishing and exciting and generative about it.
Eva: I'm in the pressure cooker essentially and When I feel like I'm gonna die it sucks, but it passes and that's why I'm no [01:29:00] longer in that like, ah, everything's I Oh, you know, like my melodramatic mind's like, everything's over, this is the worst. Like the moment I get out of that, there's actually like real appreciation for the path, I suppose, the journey.
Eva: I feel really connected to God. There's also that. Oh, can I just share something with you? Actually? I saw someone sent this email. I think it was like a Ram Dass thing. And I don't know, they're teaching some on like some class on like the, I can't, I wish I could remember the name of this person, but the course was like the gift of God and G O D stood for, no, no, gift, no, G O D, God, um, the gift of desperation.
Eva: So God stood for the gift of desperation. And I was like, it is so true that when we are down on our knees because we're having a fucking hard time. That's when we have the humility, I think, to turn to God because it's when we say, you know, like, I don't know how to [01:30:00] fucking do this. Or apparently it's just this humbling moment, you know?
Kyley: Yes, I do. I do. And there's an incredible, there is something incredibly rich about going through something that's really fucking hard. with a deep feeling of connection to spirit. I've had very hard things that brought me closer, right? I've had very hard experiences where I didn't have the kind of connection to spirit that I have now.
Kyley: And they like could have dragged me and pulled me towards what I have now. But this past year was a really incredible experience of like, yeah, the richness of when shits on fire. But you know that you're connected to spirit as you walk through it. There is something, I mean, I'm very, very, very glad to not currently be in said fire.
Kyley: Like, you know, I don't, I don't need to re up in the [01:31:00] immediate future. And I know what you're speaking to. There is something, there is something really beautiful and rich, um, and generous when, but when you have, when you have that, so I am, I'm happy that that I'm happy that that is. Woven through
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: of experiencing.
Eva: Yeah. I just, I think it's just, I don't know, man. I just, It's just, this cannot not be for me. And the reason I say that is because it's just so glaringly obvious, like everything here is pushing me more towards my fucking liberation. Like, there's just no doubt about it. And so I'm like, all right, let's go.
Kyley: Yeah. I mean, I think you can share this on the podcast before, but every day for, you know, eight months I woke up and was like, okay, show me how this is for me. Okay. Show me how this is for me. Okay. Sometimes, again, sometimes it was fucking show me how this is for me. Fine.
Eva: Yeah, totally. Totally. And I think about you saying that often. [01:32:00] Yeah. All right, my friend, Kylie, what is bringing you joy?
Kyley: so we are recording this on the eve of Halloween, and I love Halloween. It's so much fun. I mean, I live in New England. My backyard is like a giant pile of leaves. I have small kids. I have the perfect neighborhood for trick or treating. So like, it's just, it's just a delight. My kids, Birdie's gonna be a ladybug, and Desi's wearing one of those blow up costumes where it looks like he's riding a dragon.
Eva: Yes. Yes. I had one of those the
Kyley: And, uh, and, and so I'm just excited about all of that and all the like cute kid excitement, but specifically about friendship, you know, I've shared in this episode, obviously quite a bit of where, you know, friendship continues to be a like place where I am unhooking from shame and all of that. And I had a joy earlier in the season about.
Kyley: Friendship. So here's another one. [01:33:00] We're having like a party. So we have this great neighborhood for trick or treating and we are having four, maybe five families with their kids coming over
Eva: Wait when?
Kyley: for trick or treating. So we're going to have like a whole horde. So I have like all of these friends and their kids who are coming over, we're going to order a bunch of pizza, drink some beer, wander around my neighborhood.
Kyley: I just am so, and it like, it's like the most effortless thing, right? Because it's like, they're all the kind of friends, and I'm like, I'm not picking up my shit for you, because you also have small kids, and your house is also a mess, or it's not, but like, you get mine. And, you know, people were like, what can we bring?
Kyley: And I was like, I mean, I guess we need a drink. We're literally just ordering pizza. Like, I'm not doing, you know, it's like, it's just so simple. I love these people. Um, we're going to have a fucking blast and we've done this every year, but always just with like one friend and this year it turned into this whole thing
Eva: I also love that like, so you're, so it's happening like at your house. [01:34:00] I love that you guys are the hub and it does sound like Yeah. An evolution of the, um, community that you continue to tend to there. Like it's just growing.
Kyley: and, and, and like reconnecting with like an old friend who actually was Desi and Brittney's nanny for a long time. And, and, and, and we just both were in our little bubble for a while and, and have like, we kept messaging each other being like, she listens to the podcast sometimes. So hi, Kate. If you're Katie, if you're
Eva: I remember Kate, you always
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: anyway, hi Kate.
Kyley: Like just dearest, dearest, dearest human. And her son is like, just so sweet and special. And so, um, I think we've both like reemerged from our bubbles and have been like, actually making plans together more often. And so she's going to, they're going to come and, uh, I'm just, um, I'm delighted by life and going to have so much fun.
Eva: Love that. It sounds so cute. And I demand pictures.[01:35:00]
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes, of course, of course,
Eva: All right, friends, we love you so much. If there was something helpful in this episode, it would help so much if you could share it and tag us in it on social media, share with your friends, write us a review, all the things, all the things.
Eva: Um, yeah, some people have been sending in some really kind words for season five and it is truly you guys like giving me life right now. Seriously.
Kyley: I know, I'm, yes, I'm, I think I shared in a recent email how much like the recording this podcast, it's like the, the, our conversations are such a gift that the fact that we get to share it with people and people are also touched by it is like completely bonus, you know, like it's just like, yes, exactly.
Kyley: Exactly. And, um, and, And so I'm so blown away by that. And I also have a request for folks, which is if you're listening, if you made it this far, and this topic of discipline is alive for you, this like overwhelmed [01:36:00] structure piece. I would love
Eva: or I would say even more about it's also I think more around like disappointing people and like, yeah, any of it, any of it. Yeah.
Kyley: So I think yes, both things, but I was specifically curious to get people's, um, Yeah, where you struggle with the things that we've talked about here, or your relationship to structure, because I would love to bring in other people's, like, questions to part two. So,
Eva: Love this. Yes. Well, it's the ongoing project that will, will emerge of us doing more Q and A's too. Like we love answering people's questions. We've done a couple, so you can always go back and listen to those, but send us your questions, dude. We want to, we want to answer them. Okay. We love you.