In this week’s listener Q&A, Eva and Kyley unpack a deceptively simple question:
In this week’s listener Q&A, Eva and Kyley unpack a deceptively simple question:
"Do you resonate with the idea of “emotionally immature” people, or the framework of “old souls” vs “younger souls”? Sometimes these labels help me soften toward challenging people in my life (like parents, in-laws, or bosses). Other times, I worry they’re just ways to avoid looking at my own patterns.
So my bigger question is: when you’re in relationships that really test you, do you find frameworks like this useful? Or are they just the mind trying to control things?"
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In this episode, we explore:
💭 When labels like “emotionally immature” or “narcissist” offer relief—and when they become crutches for self-protection or self-abandonment
🪞 The difference between using frameworks to understand others vs. using them to avoid your own patterns
🌗 Why discernment (not perfection) is the real skill of emotional and spiritual maturity
⚖️ How the “old soul / young soul” hierarchy can quietly feed superiority, ego, or even spiritual elitism
❤️ The power of dropping the story altogether - what happens when we meet people as they are, without a label or framework
💡 How anger, resentment, and cynicism can actually be doorways to deeper acceptance and peace
🌀 What it looks like to balance compassion with boundaries - especially in relationships that are less safe or still painful
🔥 The ongoing practice of holding paradox: seeing what’s true about someone and keeping your heart open
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Hey, it's Kyley.
Eva: And it's Eva,
Kyley: Welcome back to Hello Universe.
Eva: we have another really great question, uh, for our advice column from a listener. Kyley, why don't you kick us off?
Kyley: Yes. I was so excited when this question came in 'cause I think there's lots of juicy layers here. So the question is, hello universe, do you resonate with the idea of emotionally immature people or the framework of old souls versus younger souls?
Sometimes these labels help me soften towards challenging people in my life, like parents in-laws or bosses, and other times I worry they're just ways to avoid [00:01:00] looking at my own patterns. So my bigger question is, when you're in relationships that really test you, do you find frameworks like this useful or are they just the mind trying to control things signed emotionally, mature ish.
Eva: Oh, okay. This question is really fascinating to me because I can see how I do this in some ways too, where I sometimes I like unconsciously or consciously. Put labels on things and I, I understand where this listener is coming from. Sometimes that can seem helpful and sometimes that might be, uh, in my experience, I'm not saying this is the per the, the listener's experience, but like some sort of a separation in a way for me to create separation judgment maybe.
And I think it's like a spectrum.
Kyley: Like everything. I feel like the, the short answer to this is like or is spectrum and paradox. Yes. And
Eva: Yes. Both. It's always both. Exactly.
Kyley: just zoom to the end of the episode, that's our summary.
Eva: Well, I'm curious, is that how you feel like, is it on, on, [00:02:00] on a first glance is, was that your immediate reaction?
Kyley: I mean, I think that there's interesting ways in which. I think labels of any kind are both helpful and unhelpful, right?
Like, um, my label of A DHD is really helpful in giving me permission to be who I truly am and also like invites me to find ways that really work for me. And I also totally use it sometimes be like, oh, I'm so silly and not that, you know, like I just totally use it as a, as a limit, right? And so that's what I feel on this question is that.
Anything that's helping you soften towards people that you are in relationship with in a like authentic way, right? Not a self abandonment way. I feel like great. We love it and I totally think labels like this can end up being, creating this like elitist like judgment separation thing that is also not great.
Eva: Yeah. I really love that distinction that you're making of like, [00:03:00] I experienced that too. I just wanna give examples from my own life of when a story or a label. Has been helpful for me to acknowledge and then, then I go on the deep end and then I get too identified with it. So like I, I noticed for me, one of the things that I noticed when I was younger was that like, I came from a pretty traumatic background, but be, and you know, living with like an alcoholic parent and it's really common when you have that sort of background that.
Your habit is to downplay your trauma. 'cause you need to be like, everything's fine, everything's fine. It's not a big deal. Like I'm really privileged, like have a great life, you know? And then you downplay it, play it. And so that was really not helpful. And then I got to a point where I was like owning my story and being like, wait, this actually was really challenging and traumatic and difficult and.
I started to embrace my trauma and that was helpful. And then I got to a point where I over identified my trauma and I was just like, well, I'm just like a fucked up girl with all this trauma and boo, there was, it was this like victim story of like, boohoo me and you know, I'm just a girl who's gone through all this trauma.
And ultimately that is to say, I think it's all depending [00:04:00] on like how we're using something. How are we relating to something, you know, what, who, what in us who, and or what in us is, is like, um. Is using this label. And I guess really what the question, the answer, what the listener's asking is like, and also is it, well, actually, really what I wanna ask the listener is, is it helpful?
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: and I think they're pointing out like, yes, sometimes it is helpful. Like I have people in my life like parents. In-laws who can be really challenging. And it sounds like this offers like this idea of like, okay, maybe they're just emotionally immature or they're not, they're younger souls and they haven't had had as much life experience.
It sounds like it can offer you compassion where you're just like, okay, it's not personal. You know? I, I can see them for, for how I, how I think they are. And that gives me, um, a tool to respond more kindly,
Kyley: Yeah, [00:05:00] I think a question that I was thinking is, is the label creating possibility or limit or to use words you were using earlier? Is it creating love or separation? Um, and that might be a helpful way. And I think so, and I think it's important to note, like the possibility is not always for the other person, right?
So like, you know, if you grew up with, you know, a, if you grew up with someone. I'm trying to like do this without using labels, which is really interesting, right? But if you grew up in a traumatic childhood, it's probably helpful at a, to your point, to like recognize and label maybe your parent in order to create possibility for yourself, right?
Like, oh, this is like, this is their trauma, this is their right, their baggage, this is their emotional maturity level. And because I label that and see that clearly, it creates possibility for me to not get wrapped up in it, to not make it mine, to not fall into old [00:06:00] patterns. But, but, uh, yes, but also sometimes we use those labels to like overread things or keep people trapped.
Like, I know I have done this with, with people that I love, right? Where I just have the lens that I see them through, and then I read their action through who I've already decided that they are. But that might not actually be what's happening.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: And so is your, and so this to me feels like. Everything. It's like practice more than one constant truth.
Does that make sense?
Eva: Yes. I think, I mean, and I think there's a skillfulness in there and it's like when we have these, any kind of tool or label, the skillfulness is discernment. Like we, I think there's like a wisdom that comes from experience and what you're saying, practice that helps us discern like. Just be really clear and self-aware and honest with ourselves.
Like, wait, am I doing this when I do this? Is this bringing me [00:07:00] closer to love and connection? Or is this bringing me closer to like, judgment and, you know, maybe giving people a pass when they don't deserve one at that moment. Um, and it's gonna change depending on, on a situation, by situation basis, moment by moment basis.
And I think only you two listener, um, emotionally mature ish will know. And that's also a very good thing. Like you get to decide.
Kyley: Yeah. Well, and one of the things that I was also thinking about is that if you are someone who comes from, if one of your trauma responses say is to fawn, if you have a really strong fawn response, which is that people pleasing, that perfectionism, that kind of enmeshment or self abandonment, I think. That is a pattern that really loves external labels because when you have a strong fond response, you have a hard time.
Um. Trusting your inner authority, right? And so the label becomes the [00:08:00] authority, right? That's like, oh, I can set a boundary with this person because I have the label that they're a narcissist. Or I have the label that they're emotionally immature. And so I think there's a way that some people coming out of like codependency or fawning, that label is actually like a really.
I think it's actually a, it's a crutch, but I think it's some people, like if you have a sprained ankle, you need a crutch. Like I don't think it's an inherently bad
Eva: Bad
Kyley: crutches. Right.
Eva: right. Depending on where you are in your journey. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Right. And so you might really need that for the fortification of setting a boundary that previously didn't feel safe to set.
Trusting and trusting your inner authority. Right? And then ideally at a certain point our sprained ankle heals and we don't need the crutches anymore to, that feels really ableist Also, now that I said that, I'm like, but somebody lose crutches forever, and that's fucking great. So anyway, the metaphor's fallen apart, but I think you can't be idea.
Eva: Okay. What's so fascinating to me about this is, I hadn't originally seen this when I read the question, um, [00:09:00] but I'm also seeing, well, one question that I have for the listener. Kylie, I think you have some thoughts on this too, is like, the part of the question that was interesting to me is she's like, you know what she, she uses these labels so that she can, I think sounds like soften to people in her life, but then she's like, I worry if it's just a way to avoid looking at my own patterns.
I'm really curious what she means by that. Like how would using this label prevent you from looking at your own patterns? And I think you have some thoughts on that, but what I'm also seeing in myself is like, like with my mother who know is a challenging person in my life. I was always told when I was young that like she's sick.
And that was always the explanation, like mentally ill and that was always the explanation for everything. So when she did something totally fucking crazy, you know, my dad would often be like, well you, you just have to understand like that's not you. That's just how she is. Like this is like a sickness.
And sometimes that was really helpful, but I saw, and I still do this, I see now that I take that label. Then I use [00:10:00] it to dismiss and invalidate my own experience. Like I'm really mad at her. And that was really fucked up. And that was, and she totally, you know, whatever, oversteps, some boundary, whatever, whatever.
And then I go, oh, but it's not our fault because she's sick. And you know, it's like I give, I give people like this pass, or I don't hold people like accountable. Being, even if you label someone a narcissist, right? You're like, well, this person's just a narcissist. But then you just go, well, that's just like how they are forever.
And, and I think there's a way in which you don't deal with the fact that like, yeah, just because they're a narcissist, it doesn't mean that you don't deserve to speak up and ask for what you need and, and voice your, you know, opinion when something is really not right with you. Do you know what I'm saying?
Kyley: yeah, so you're, that's interesting. That's a different take than I was thinking, but I appreciate that basically using the label helps you soften, but also it's like a sneaky way that
Eva: So you self abandon?
Kyley: abandonment.
Eva: Totally. Yeah.
Kyley: like a well, like, [00:11:00] yeah. Oh, well I can't expect anything better from them.
Which might even be true, right? Sometimes it is like, actually this is what they are capable of, but therefore there can be a kind of like
Eva: You just need to suck it up. That
Kyley: right, A
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, so I think that's one I think I would need to know more from this listener about like ways that she might use this habit of labeling people in her life that she loves at that, that she perceives to be possibly judgemental. But I think you've had some thoughts on that.
Kyley: Well, I was also just thinking about like. Judgment. Right. And thinking about how, I was intrigued by the use of this, the labels old soul and young soul, because I think we see that like a lot in like new age discourse, right? That there's like, there are old souls and there are young souls. And I find this very like eugenic, see, you know,
Eva: Yes, I can't, I wanna talk to you about this idea, this, this, this. Like, we've never really talked about old souls and new souls on this show, and I'd be curious to know what you think, but yes. Continue.
Kyley: Well, I, and I think, [00:12:00] like, you know, everybody has always said about both of my kids, like, oh, you know, like, oh, he's such an old soul. And so like, I think there is a very like, lovely aspect of this thing, right? Which is just like you, I have, I have one friend and her 4-year-old is like basically a 60-year-old man, right?
And it's just like you're like hanging out with this 60-year-old grandpa and you hang out with him. So like. There's a very lovely endearing part of that. But in, I think in new age discourse in particular, there's this construct of like, well, there are young souls and there are old souls, and there are people who are ascending and there are people who are not.
And I, I, especially in this rise of fascism, like I find that language very, uh. Gross. I was looking for a smart word, but because I think it's an, it, it creates this idea of like, oh, well, um, well he's just an old soul. Or he, sorry, he's just a young soul and therefore like, um, his experience isn't [00:13:00] important.
Or there's, there's like just this, like there's this way that we can just write people off that as a, like, collective narrative I think is. Already happening or in all sorts of ways and is like never a good idea. Um, and. I don't think any of us actually know anything about like how old a soul is or like what a soul is with anything that we can nail down.
So it feels like you were just making this shit up anyway, so let's not make it up within like fascist eugenics framework.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And I'm not saying that's the, I'm not saying that's the writer's intent, but I think that is the infrastructure that lives underneath this kind of language. And so. It's important, especially in these moments, just to notice where we might be unintentionally existing within a actually a harmful paradigm.
Um, and so, um, so anyways, I think that this like old soul, young soul language just can reinforce this idea of like, there are [00:14:00] valuable people and there are less valuable people and
Eva: interesting. Uhhuh, I don't know, because I think, okay, so this concept like, you know, old souls, new souls, I would say is like relatively new to me within like the past four, four or five years maybe. Because it's like, you know, I've heard of the concept of like, oh yeah, this person's just like an old soul, but like, I never really understand what the fuck that meant.
You know? Like you could have general sense, like they're so wise and they're, and you know, they could be young, but they're wise and they're deep and they're tender or whatever. Um, but I don't, and I don't know if it's because it's not a language that I use often. Therefore I'm not familiar, but I don't, I don't perceive it with that, with that, the harmful lens.
I think the way that you explained it made made a lot, a lot of sense to me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could see how that could be really problematic. But previous I wouldn't have said that. That was like a construct that I was aware of, but
Kyley: So I feel like I have had more. I've hung out in like woo woo, new age spaces. I've, I, I've been around that discourse more and
Eva: Yes, I
Kyley: as a result, have like, and [00:15:00] you know, I come with my academic background. My grad degree was all in critical race theory, God forbid, um, among other things. And so I didn't have this, I can't help, but I'm really curious about like, you know, the spirituality, AltRight light stuff and I think things like this where we bake.
Hierarchy and then revere hierarchy are the ways, and again, I'm not saying that this person is on the alt-right pipeline. I actually intuitively suspect that they are not. But I think the way these things work is that this kind of hierarchical think thinking is normalized and celebrated and revered, and it feels good to be old school and to be above somebody.
And then all of these subtle little things snowball, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're. Pro man,
Eva: Okay. Yeah, I do think that
Kyley: I didn't want, I tell her I took this in the direction you're not expecting.
Eva: [00:16:00] well, no, because it's, it's, it's foreign to me in that I think that you spend a lot more time in, uh, in communities where, like, this is a. This comes up. Do you know what I mean? And then, and there's all these, I think, associations that people make the concept of missiles. Um, and to bring it back to what the listener is sort of saying, or, and my question to the listener is like, I think one way I think it can unfold.
There are times again where it is. Super helpful, and one way that it might be unhelpful is when it creates this hierarchy, and then I feel like usually that kinda feels gross within ourselves. And I would just, it's just another reflection question of like, okay, is this, you know, to notice when something is helpful, when something's not helpful.
Kyley: Yes, and thank you. I got so excited about my little soapbox. I forgot to tie it back to what you'd actually asked, which is Yeah, I think the. Way that it helps, it, it, [00:17:00] whenever we are creating hierarchy, I, whether we put ourselves at the top or the bottom of that hierarchy, I think it allows us to, um, it reinforces ego, right?
Because the ego is the part that's, that's interested in, in hierarchy. And so I think it's inherently, whenever we're like attached to our role in hierarchy, then I think that reinforces this. Kind of abdication of responsibility, whether it's like, well, I'm just at the top of the hierarchy, so I'm better.
Or, oh, woes me, I'm just at the bottom and I'm worthless. Either way, it can be a kind of, um, I. It can reinforce our blind spots. Um, and so I think that's where like holding labels loosely feels help, feels like the key, right? It's like if this is helping me to be in loving relationship and including loving relationship with myself, great.
And also constantly being aware of where we are [00:18:00] bringing in. Um, yeah, like hierarchical better than thinking
right.
Eva: Yeah, totally. Because ultimately I think what I have noticed is anytime I, I am experiencing better than [00:19:00] thinking. Oftentimes, sometimes it's like so unconscious. I don't even know that I'm feeling that way, you know? But when, when I become conscious of it, I notice that it feels bad, it feels really incongruent with my heart.
I don't like it. It feels gross. And so I think these are just another like sort of checkpoints to be like, is this feeling good or bad?
Kyley: Yeah, I had a big aha. This was a couple years ago where. I had somebody in my life who, you know, was important to me. And also I had some story about like how they could be happier if, and I had some story about their like, you know, emotional maturity or their growth or whatever. And on some level it was really rooted in love.
Like, I love this person, I want them to be happy. Right. And I. Totally had ended up creating this dynamic in a relationship where I was like kind of a bossy know-it-all, where I was basically trying to like, [00:20:00] you know, um, uh, some part of me was trying to love on them, but I was trying to do it by being like, be like me,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: right?
And it was actually like a very unkind thing for both of us. And created, um, like tension where. Actually now it's just like a lot more fun and a lot more loving because the aha for me was like, I don't know what their path is. Right? If we wanna put it in the language of souls, I don't know what their soul signed up for, right?
Like maybe their soul decided to come and really just experience misery. Like who knows, right? Who knows how any of this works. Or like, we think we have theories or we get downloads or get visions, but like, I don't know. And so, um. I just noticed again where like I was like putting myself above them, but to your point, it was unconscious and, and that like really loving and accepting and like was like, wait, no, you are doing your thing and I'm doing my thing and we're walking [00:21:00] along beside each other.
Um, and now that relationship is also like so much more joyous and
Eva: Mm mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: And I can see, I can see their wisdom, like I was a wisdom that they have that I was not counting or wasn't seeing because I had this hierarchy thing going on that again, I wasn't conscious of.
Eva: Yeah, I think you're okay. This is just, I think this question is just getting more and more interesting to me. 'cause I can see I'm being reminded of areas of my life and where I label things and then where like just to see what happens in those situations.
You know, a label that I had for a long time of my partner was that like, he's enlightened, you know, and truly believing that he was like an enlightened being. And that was painful, as we've discussed on previous podcasts, that was painful because it created this sense of separation and also comparison and like all this stuff.
And it, and it was funny because at the time, in the very beginning, I, I kind of perceive that as like a positive story. You know? I thought that it [00:22:00] was a good thing. And then I, and then it. And then it like turned and I was like, oh God, this is actually so fucking stressful. And um, and I think really what I've experienced now, just, you know, being with him for some time now is like, I just experienced him without a story.
Do you know what I mean? Like, it just, it's just nice to be so I, because I think that's really important. 'cause it's not to say like, so it's just take this label of like. Old souls and souls, or even someone's thinking of them as like emotionally immature. It's not, it's not that you're taking emotionally immature, and then you're, you flip the story and you think, well, they're actually mature.
It's actually, it's not, you don't have emotionally immature or mature. You just have no story and to experience. How do you experience these people in your life when you don't have a story without, without any kind of label? And see if in that moment it's, if it's, if it's potentially. A little bit more helpful, and I kind of, because that's kind of what I got from what you were saying with your friendship is that like you had this experience and didn't it not like you changed your experience of this person.
It wasn't like you went from this [00:23:00] person's, uh, I dunno, maybe you were perceiving, perceiving some negative things and all of a sudden like intentionally flipped the script and saw them positively. You just sort of like dropped, dropped everything and you're like, you, you're just like, you be you. I be me.
And then. In that spaciousness, then good things could come, but you didn't have to like, uh, look for them.
Kyley: And I think what's interesting is both your partner and my friend in the story are safe people, right? Like and I, because what I'm thinking is how story can be helpful at keeping us story label can be helpful at keeping us safe, right? And. If you have a history, if you have a history of enmeshment with somebody who is, you know, perhaps not healthy, uh, and you drop the story, you might run the risk of like. Throwing yourself back into enmeshment, right. Or throwing yourself, you right. Your default might be some sneaky back doorway to self abandonment. [00:24:00] And so I think, I don't have a clear answer, but I'm feeling in my body the difference between dropping the story when it's like, oh, like this is a, this is a loving, safe relationship and my story causing suffering and my, and I'm unintentionally creating hierarchy that doesn't need to be there and I'm gonna drop it.
And then how we can bring some of that. Into what this person's talking about, which is like actually more difficult and maybe sometimes like harmful
or
less safe
Eva: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. And I think it really comes down to self attunement, self-checking in self-awareness, moment by moment basis, and that you get to decide and you get to discern if it's helpful for you or not. Like, essentially like I don't think it's helpful to have a hard and fast rule, you know?
Kyley: Okay. Here's the thing. That's on my mind with people who are to this person's question. Like more the relationships that are more difficult. Right. I think one of our assignments is always to see what is right [00:25:00] and what is, is love and also it's the places where we experience where we are currently experiencing not love.
Right? And, and who are. Difficult or, or people who've experienced as difficult for whom labels are, are helpful. I thinking about how much. We need to be able to see clearly what is, and like with my friend, when I dropped the story, I could see her more clearly, right? And so I'm thinking about how like, sometimes the label is the thing that allows us to see clearly like, oh, this person is a narcissist.
This, this, these patterns I have experienced are my whole life come from narcissistic behavior. Like I can now see clearly and things are things that didn't make sense before. Now make sense? And because I can see clearly, I can make. More generous choices for everybody involved. Um, and, and so yeah, again, sometimes I think we need the, the, the [00:26:00] labels become helpful to see clearly, but then to a point earlier, we sometimes can use them to like stay stuck.
But there's something that I wanna just name about, like. If you are in relationship with somebody who has caused you a lot of harm, your job is not to like self abandon and drop the story and like love them at the expense of yourself. Like that's not actually for anyone's highest good.
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: I'm mindful of how easy it is for people who are like to have a tendency to self abandon who are in harmful relationships to just like
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: make themselves the banquet.
Eva: I completely agree.
Which I think goes back to my example with my mother of like, well actually, I guess in my example I was using that I was still a self abandoning, I was using this idea of like, she's sick. Uh, self abandonment. 'cause it meant like, you know, like she doesn't have any responsibility and it's all on me and it's all my fault, and I need to be the one to change myself.
That is, that's a way in which a label, I think is, [00:27:00] in which using a label actually can be a form of self abandonment. You know? Uh, or even, even like, like if this listener that's a person could be like, well, my parents or my, my, my, um, you know, whatever mother-in-law, father-in-law, whatever, they're, they're just a younger soul.
And so therefore. I shouldn't expect them to be able to, you know, communicate.
Kyley: Respect my boundaries. Right.
Eva: You know? Yeah, exactly. Um, and I could see that as a way in which we don't look at our own stuff, which is like, we need to actually, I stand up for ourselves or speak up or set a boundary or whatever.
Kyley: [00:28:00] [00:29:00] Yes. And I think what this person is also speaking to is like. Accepting the truth of who people are, right? Like if your boss is emotionally mature, if your boss has historically shown themself to be an asshole, like you can accept the truth of that and stop railing against it and stop expecting him to suddenly like be [00:30:00] kinder or Right.
And there's a way that I think we can just know, like, this is who they've always been. I'm gonna, I'm gonna expect that I'm going to go in, I'm gonna stop throwing myself against something hoping it's gonna be different. Um, and. And I think it's when we use that, and I think that can be really important for a lot of people, especially when they come from self abandonment.
And I think that we can use that to create a kind of cynicism. So you're talking about how we can use it to create an abandonment where it's like, we don't expect anymore from the situation. But I think there's another way where it can just be like cynical where it's like that's just the way she is and, and your anger is so valid if you're, or a relationship with someone who's causing harm, right?
But there's a kind of cynicism that can come with these labels that's like, well, she's just emotionally immature. And that's the way she, and there's this like a. The expectation and the of, of the, there's a way that there's an exce. We can ex, [00:31:00] there's an acceptance of the behavior that's like, oh, I know what I'm gonna get, so how am I gonna act?
Because I know that's what happens. Versus the expectation that has like a cynicism, which is always barb's pointing inward.
Eva: Yeah. I think that speaks to a really good point of like, what is like the flavor of your acceptance, because I think, 'cause I think real relief and. Liberation comes from like a really rooted in your body acceptance of, of how certain things are or how certain PE people are, and I think it's not always. I think sometimes we get on the surface of that, but we're not, we don't fall into it completely.
So I think you were saying in an example of like, oh yeah, this person is just, well, I don't, can't remember the example. Like she's just a narcissist or whatever. It's like this is just how she is and there's this like blame almost. It's not actual acceptance. It's not, it's not the feeling of [00:32:00] real acceptance.
And I think it's just up to us to, again, the discernment of like. Like labels aside, how are you feeling in your body? You know? Does it feel like peace? Does it actually feel Yeah, and it's like it's, I, I wrote down like, it's not a story, but it's like a feeling. It's like, what are you, how do you feel in that moment?
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and sometimes the way we move through, like cynicism and resentment, say, towards peace is actually to get fucking pissed, right? Like I think often things like cynicism and resentment are like a calcified anchor that just hasn't had a proper outlet. And so. If you've been, listen the show for a while, this is not new information that even I think this, but just restating like to, to soften or to accept, or to be loving. Uh, it's not uncommon that it actually requires us to like, feel the anger that exists that might really [00:33:00] need to be felt. And then what we often, what I often experience on the other side is a kind of relief and acceptance and love, even if the love is, oh, and actually I can never talk to you again. Like, right.
We, we need to, like, I can't even have you in my life. And yet I burned all the way to the end of the anger and I arrived at love.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Anything else you would add to this juicy wide ranging question?
Eva: No, I actually think we did an excellent job being able to really pull this apart for what was, you know, a pretty simple, and again, great, thoughtful question, but like we really went in all directions with this, I think.
Kyley: yeah, I think so. So send us your question and let us go on, you know.
Eva: Really take a deep dive into, yes, we would love to take a deep dive into whatever dilemma or question or conundrum you have going on in your life. And it could be something like this, you know, Kylie has said like, you know, we love the spiritual esoteric questions, the, you know, [00:34:00] but also it's like, what's going on in your dating life?
You know, like, give, get us, give us like the questions about your juicy like drama.
Kyley: Yes, all of the things. Please give us the tea before we bounce. Should we do a round of joy?
Eva: SO I've been, for me, my joy is that I've been in Mexico for almost six weeks now, which is fucking crazy to me. And. Looking back, we're almost, we're getting ready to leave soon.
And looking back, I'm just realizing like the, the, I think it's really dawning on me like how luxurious and like just how luxurious it's been. And by luxurious, I don't even mean like fancy in any way, but so much time and space and it's felt really needed after this year of. Just a lot of ongoing health stuff.
And I do think, like I've been steadily improving, but I'm about to go back to [00:35:00] Taiwan soon too, which like I'm really nervous about. And that's generally like a very, um, demanding time for me, for me physically and mentally. And last year I went back and it got wrecked and I was, so, I'm like a little bit scared and I, but, but also last year before I went to Taiwan, I was doing all this crazy travel and it was like really intense.
And this has just been like. I just feel so grateful. So grateful for the luxury of space. Space. And what I mean by space is also just, yeah. Um, I, I have been not doing a lot of like socializing, you know what I mean? And. I really like that sometimes, sometimes like I go back to remembering like how content I am being living like a very, very simple solitary ish life.
And I love people and community, but um, and that's the rub for me often. But anyway, this has just felt like, but really good medicine for me before I [00:36:00] ramp up for another phase of this year.
Kyley: Yeah, I'm really glad you're getting this little like cocoon of quiet time with Mexico. The gorgeous palm prawns behind you.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I've got a great tan going on. I think I talked about that last week. But yeah, I'm still working on my tan. All right. Kylie, what's going on for you?
one thing that's bringing you joy?
Kyley: I have so many ideas,
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: which is I often, you know, I am, I am, Eva knows very well that I, um, never have a shortage of ideas.
Eva: I love, and it may not always be as enjoyable for you, but I think it's great.
Kyley: Well, 'cause sometimes it's overwhelming, right?
Eva: Yeah. It's like a traffic jam in the head. Totally.
Kyley: the other day I wrote a post, um, uh, for social media. It was actually very sweet. A new client of mine. Was like, Hey, this philosophy that you talked about in your class, which is this whole thing I teach about extraction economy versus generous economy.
And she was like, do you [00:37:00] have that written down anymore? Like I wanna share about it. And I, she's like, you know, do you have anything you wanna write written about it? So I wrote a social media post 'cause it was like a good, it's like, oh yeah, this is a whole thing I got. I could talk about this all day long.
And, um. Then I was done with the one social media post and I was like, I should write a pamphlet. I should write a 40 to 60 page book that's a workbook all about extraction versus generous economy, which is a great idea. And also like, I'm gonna fucking die. I mean, I will someday. But, um, so anyways, sometimes I do get overwhelmed because like, I, like daily have ideas that are like that of that scope, right?
Which is a very A DHD thing. Um, and lately I just feel like. So much inspiration about things that I wanna bring forward in my work, like the, the mission and message and. Direction of my work feels so clear, and I just am so full of possibility around all the different things that I wanna create, um, from like really [00:38:00] fun things.
Like I built a, I built a quiz, you know, one of those like, what's your identity quiz the other day, which is really, really fun, but also like super profound insights in it. All the way to like a really robust curriculum stuff and, um. I'm balancing the like, you know, uh, overwhelm, the overwhelm overflow thing.
I can feel myself teetering between those two. And I'm really, I'm using this joy as a moment to anchor in. That is such a fucking delight to just be on fire with ideas and have a brain that gets to the experience to be on fire and to have made a career for myself where I get to be on fire with ideas.
So, um, get ready everybody. I got some shit coming.
Eva: I, I love this because one, this really is in line with like, the fact that like, you know, you love Fall Energy. We both bought Love Fall energy, just, I'm, I'm not experiencing fall yet here, but you know, there is this energy of like, school year starting, and for me that's always just been like a very alive time of like creation [00:39:00] and ideas and cute outfits for school.
You know, like, just like stuff like that.
Kyley: Yes, yes. New notebooks.
Eva: exactly. So I'm kind of sensing that you're in that vibe, but also it is really nice to be in a really generative place. And I know that it can be stressful sometimes, but I think it's helpful to remember the times when we feel like it's crickets.
You know, that sometimes we've just been, there's times where it's just like uninspired, you know? And yeah, I think as long as you remember that you don't have to do everything, um,
Kyley: is often the thing that I
have to tell my
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: we don't have to do everything right this second, because the tricky thing that happens to me is I want to do it all at once and then I, it's like a traffic jam and so then nothing will happen. So that's always the thing is like the cars got, they gotta get themselves into a little bit
of an order,
Eva: yeah, I think
Kyley: a time.
Eva: so. I think you know that. And also I love that you're just reframing it though, like instead of seeing it something that's stressful, it's like you're releasing the gift of it.
Kyley: Yes, because it is
[00:40:00] fun. It
Eva: is super fun when you're, yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. And as long as, and, and the only thing that actually would cau that actually causes the, like, overwhelmed feeling and the stress of it is the part of me who thinks I can't or won't execute it. Or that there's even a problem if I don't. Right. Because the gift of having a million ideas a day is like, no idea.
No one idea is that precious. 'cause you'll just get another one, right? And so, um, there's also like really letting, really just really letting the ideas be abundance and like, and trusting. Really celebr, really anchoring into like trust. Like there's the only reason to be overwhelmed is if you think there's something bad's gonna happen if you don't do these ideas, which doesn't actually make sense logically.
So we just go back to abundance.
Eva: Yay. Woo hoo. Okay, listeners, we love you so much. If you like the show, subscribe, leave a review, share it with a friend while you, oh yeah, send us your q and a questions. We love those and we love you.
Kyley: See you next week. I.