Kyley and Eva start a new series, exploring aging and our own inevitable deaths. Bonus: Kyley takes us on a mystical journey to sit comfortably with the discomfort of our own mortality.
Kyley and Eva start a new series, exploring aging and our own inevitable deaths. Bonus: Kyley takes us on a mystical journey to sit comfortably with the discomfort of our own mortality.
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Hi, it's Kylie.
Eva: and it's Eva
Kyley: Welcome back to Hello Universe.
Eva: We're here. I'm recording from an Airstream chair and, um, making it work.
Kyley: Yeah, I do like that every time we drop, jump on there's like a new backdrop, which feels especially great cuz I know how tiny it is. But somehow you're managing to have like variety in your
Eva: you are just trying to find the right position. Hopefully I'll get there. Yes,
Kyley: I figured. That's what I figured. Nick and I were talking today over dinner about um, like getting like a tiny [00:01:00] shed for our backyard for me to have an office.
And I was like, now I'm like obsessively researching office sheds.
Eva: I love that. I think you can do a lot, which is, yeah. Yeah. Ooh, exciting.
Kyley: I know. We'll see. We'll see. Um, Do you have anything before we guys, we have a very juicy topic that, um, we are very excited to dive into today, but before we do, um, which is formed by like one of my favorite topics, which is like a low key existential crisis on one of our behalfs in this case, maybe mine turns into a show topic.
But before we do that, do you have anything you wanna discuss?
Eva: Yeah. You mean share,
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. Like anything D
Eva: Yes. Okay. So there's a couple things. Well, I'll keep it simple. So, um, I promoted a program last week, um, about sup like Al-Anon adjacent. So if you're not familiar with that means it's just to support people whose lives have been affected by a loved one's addiction.
I actually had someone reach out to [00:02:00] me who was like, who actually wanted support with their own addiction, and I was like, oh, I must, I just wanna clarify. It's like if that's what the, if that's how the message came across, I don't think I was clear. So this program that I wanna run is really about supporting people who may not be in the throes of addiction themselves, but maybe your parent is your child, your, your spouse, your partner, your friend is struggling with some kind of addiction and you are like overwhelmed and.
You don't know how to set boundaries, and there's a lot of resentment, and this is happening now. Maybe this happened 20 years ago, and you're, and because of that, you have all the residual hangups that come from having someone who's struggling with addiction. If that's you, then this program is, I think, a wonderful alternative to Al-Anon us a spiritual space, really, um, where we're going to interweave using spirituality to help us, um, manage these relationships, but also some of like the scars and the trauma that we still hold because of that.
So [00:03:00] that's a program that's near and dear to my heart as someone who, um, was raised by an alcoholic and also dated, um, recovering alcoholic for five years. I think this work is really important and I really enjoy holding the space for people. So that's, that's one thing that's coming up. Um, and then the second thing is I am gonna be doing a one day retreat online, um, sometime.
Like, I think in April, I don't know the date yet, but just kind of, kind of front load that if people are interested in digging deeper into your meditation, that's also coming up. So just get in touch with me via Instagram.
Kyley: that sounds so juicy.
Eva: I know. I'm ex,
Kyley: I love this one day retreat.
Eva: I know. I'm excited. Okay. What about you, Kai?
Kyley: Um, come hire me to be your coach.
Eva: Love
Kyley: feel like, I feel like I'm always promoting like a group program or a free workshop or whatever, but. [00:04:00] I'm a fucking great coach, so you could come hire me for that. Uh, skip right over the group program.
Eva: Kylie's a great coach. She's, I feel like they're, I'm always, yes. She just coached me on something really big. Like just in the most practical way too though. Like that's the thing. Like you can be so. Witchy magical, but then also come through, which is like the most practical things too, which speaks to my Capricorn mind.
So,
Kyley: My favorite is like to do all the like, like seemingly gun, sometimes gunky, like the deeper emotional spiritual stuff and like go in and then be like, also, here's the practical
Eva: Yep. Yeah, I hear you.
Kyley: I think cuz I think especially with the business coaching people, I think they tend to look at like, well, what do I need to do and what do I need to fix?
And what's the strategy and what's the messaging? And all of that stuff, I think can be really potent. But it's gotta line up with the gunky sometimes gunky like the. Inner shifting sands. [00:05:00] Um, and so that's where I want to go. And then I, I don't actually know if I've shared this on the post, but on the post on this show, but I have, um, recently like claimed a new title, which is that I'm calling myself a liberation coach rather than a business coach.
Um, meaning like we are all trying to fucking get somewhere with our businesses or our dreams or our desires and we're trying to prove to ourselves something and control things. And there's all sorts of emotional shit woven through your money story and your work story. And I will help you liberate yourself from that.
And then what you do with your freedom is up to you. And if you wanna make a lot of money, once you're free, you probably will make a lot of money. And also you might decide like, fuck it. I don't want a business at all. I've been to.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, so you know, as a business owner, [00:06:00] um, yeah. My biggest shifts have happened when I was looking. Like, I would go in hiring someone to help me with my business, thinking it was about business. But it was, you know, I mean, as we all know, it's never about it. It's like that's the secondary thing. It was more like they helped to liberate me in some way.
And then of course, when you're more liberated, that ripples out to every aspect of your life, including your business. So, yeah. Yeah, that makes complete sense to me. But also, I think people end up getting a lot more out of it than just, how do I do a funnel? You know, or how do I do a launch successfully?
Like, if you get to be fucking free, uh, you know, you sh that's a priceless endeavor right there.
Kyley: Like the, the, my fucking favorite thing for my clients above and beyond. Even when they, my client did text me today that was like, I did my numbers for February. It's so great to have a lot of money. So like, I love that. Don't get me wrong. And the biggest thing that I want for [00:07:00] us is that you have safety that lives in your body, independent of how many dollars are in your bank account.
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: And that's the thing that I can do with you, that I can hold space for you to uncover for yourself. Uh, and that's what I mean when I say like liberation, right? Is like, I want you to have access to a sense of self-worth and, um, power and clarity
Eva: And safety.
Kyley: and safety that lives in your body, regardless of the external circumstances.
And then you get to make choices and actions and play in the arena from that place, which is a way fucking more magnetic, way more fun, and just
Eva: sustainable.
Kyley: sustainable.
Eva: Yeah, for
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. So,
oh, go ahead.
Eva: Well, it's just that it's the real deal. It's like, it's not, you're feeling your bucket from within, not needing some external.
Kyley: , yeah, because that safety is the real deal. And when you have that, uh, when you have access to that, whatever the world around you [00:08:00] does, you get to move powerfully and you get to have access to feeling okay
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: regardless.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: And I think that ultimately that's what we're all seeking anyway when we're seeking a partner or a business success or Right. Like yes to all those things. Yes. And, but like in the meantime, like let's root it into the safety and the magic that's fucking you. So
Eva: Yeah. Love
Kyley: you want all of that, which of course you do, everyone does
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Hi. Re to your coach.
Eva: Cool. Kylie caldwell.com. Kylie Caldwell on Instagram,
right. Okay,
Kyley: DM me on Instagram. Yeah. Kylie called well on Instagram.
Eva: Yeah. Awesome. Okay, let's dive into this week's juicy, juicy, juicy, juicy topic, which like, I think we may have multiple episodes about, because I will just say, you were talking about an existential crisis. To be clear listeners, I've been in an existential crisis [00:09:00] my entire life, which is why I am a fucking spiritual mentor.
Kyley: so true.
Eva: Like, that's it. Like, and a lot of this age thing comes up, uh, pretty well. You know, I'm 39. I'm almost 40, so it makes sense that I feel like it comes up at every, especially at every turn of the decade.
Kyley: Oh, I love that you pointed that out. Yes. I actually don't know if I've ever not been in an existential crisis. It's just like, how loud is it? What do you do for fun? This is what I do for fun.
Eva: yeah. Yeah. That, let's just be real
Kyley: Um, yeah, so the topic is that we wanna talk about age and uh, and in particular, I will be 38 in May, Eva's 39. Um, so the particular way with which we are both experiencing age in our late thirties.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. A little bit of context. So [00:10:00] how this is coming up for me specifically is like, so I just turned 39 in January a couple months ago, and, but you know, if you've been following the pod or whatever, my story is that I also just recently blew up my life. And so I have been going through a lot of transition and the story in my head is like, oh, I'm almost 40 years old and I just keep rounding myself up to 40.
I'm like, I'm 40 years old and I've just moved to a city where I don't know that many people. I'm starting all over and I'm living in an Airstream trailer and like, I, you know, it's these, these like questions about like, oh, well, By this time, most people like settle down and they have kids and they're married.
And I've chosen to go on this very different path, and so I can't help but have that, that like the, the age concept come up a lot because I think specifically of not just like the transition in my life, but the age in which I'm having this transition, like if I did this when I was 35 or you know, I don't think I would've been like, oh, this is like, it's the two of those [00:11:00] things combined.
I think that Make the question more loud.
Kyley: that makes a lot of sense. And also like, you know, we had an episode not that long ago that was like you being like, I don't know if I want kids or not. And like, you know, that being. . Um,
Eva: such a big thing in a woman's life. Like you have you Unfortunately it is one of the undeniable truths. It's like there is a time limit on that when people save time's not real, like, yeah, but like you're uterus,
Kyley: you're right. Has not gotten that memo
Eva: Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah,
Kyley: Yeah. And so I think, like I was talking to a good friend of mine about this topic earlier today. Um, and that's what we were like talking about this idea of like, you make decisions or, you know, life makes decisions for you either way and doors open and doors close.
And there's something for me lately about time, [00:12:00] like I just noticed my age in a way that I don't think I ever have for, so my relationship to age has always been, um, that I like getting older. Oh, like unequivocally, right? I didn't actually, I was a kid who didn't really like being a kid. If we're honest, like
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: like I didn't understand recess.
I just like very confused by it. Um, no one, no one is surprised by this. Like I, yeah. Anyway, that's the story for another day. But I have like, I liked middle school more than elementary school. I liked high school, more college, more like, I just like being older. Um, and have increasingly felt like more of myself as time goes on. And so like when I turned 30 I was like, this is fucking great. I love it. Right. And um, similarly, 35, I remember just saying like, yeah, like, I'm just me. This is cool. And in this moment I am more of me than I have ever been before. [00:13:00] Um, and there's a lot of things. I think I'm hotter than I've ever been before.
Right?
Eva: Fuck yeah.
Kyley: Like there's a lot of, like, there's a really deep level of self-confidence that I have that I, and I've never, was never like a shrinking violet to be clear, but like, but anyways, like, so there's all this way in which I'm like, this is great and feel my age and I can feel time like slipping between my fingers in this weird way that I've nev I've, I've experienced in watching my kids age, but I'm experiencing it for me, like all of a sudden I've noticed like the skin on my neck being like
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: older and it's, there's sure some vanity thing, but it's also just like, oh fuck, I'm gonna die
Eva: Oh, interesting. Yeah.
Kyley: then brings up all these questions around. Have I gotten everything done? And anyway, there's like, oh, we can, we can go down that rabbit hole, [00:14:00] but I'll, I'll pause here. But, but, um, I'm just, I feel like I'm in this interesting place of like, it's, it's almost like I'm having this feeling of like, I think I've finally figured out who I am and is it all too late that I somehow like, like, like figure it out too.
Like I've still missed the train because now I am old, which I'm not actually old to be
Eva: Yeah, exactly. Like a 60 year old is listening to our conversation right now and being, and she's really annoyed and raw. Yeah,
Kyley: and I am fully, like, I am fully aware, like logic me is very aware of how ridiculous this isn't. Also the heart is processing with the heart's gonna process. So here we are.
Eva: Exactly. Okay, wait. Okay. Yes. Let's pause here cuz there's so much to just address there. Um, but gosh, where do we even begin? I can, I, I just wanna. Say that you helped me realize something as you were talking. I had the opposite thing of you. I never wanted to get older. I've, I fucking kicked and screamed my entire life.
While also, except for when I actually, no, except when I got to [00:15:00] 30. But anyway, when I, I was all, even at five, I remember being like, I'm old, five years old. Cause I was in kindergarten. I remember going to first grade and being like, oh my God, like I'm too old. Like, I just wanted to stay where I was always.
And I remember like, but, but, but here in Utah, I had this realization of like, oh wait. But every age of getting older was better than the last, like junior high was better than elementary school. High school was better than junior high. College was better and the 2020s were better. And my thirties have been better than my twenties.
Like it's all been better. So I just wonder if I've been like sweating this shit for no fucking reason.
Kyley: I mean, isn't that always the case? The answer to that question is yes.
Eva: Yes. Yeah.
So,
Kyley: It's yeah,
Eva: Which is also really great news cause I'm like, wait. . Um, well when I got to my third, okay, so I, to be clear, I also had an existential crisis when I was in my 29 turning 30 and I was like, oh my God, turning thirties like such a big deal.
I was freaking out until finally some people who were wise enough in their thirties were like, finally like [00:16:00] woke me up and were like, no, no, no. Let me tell you girl, your thirties are gonna be fucking awesome. Like you'd get 30 and it is amazing. And it was, and I was like, why did anyone tell me this sooner?
Cause I had, I was like, I think ingesting the society's image of like age and how like at 30 you should have like these things figured out and like I do, you know, our society values youth like that is just undeniable in many ways. And so, but now I am, because I've had this experience in my thirties, I can say there's wisdom where I'm like, oh, I'm actually excited for my forties so this is the first time I'm like, oh, I fucking can't wait.
Cuz like I do think something magical happens. I don't. I was gonna say for women, maybe for men too, but like when you just, there's just like this power, you just come into yourself and it's just like, yeah, vi, enter your villain era type energy. It's like womanhood. It's like, and also I can't wait to get to Crohn Energy too, when I'm like in my fucking sixties.
So I am looking forward to all of that. But I say that, but also, but maybe not. Also because there's a conflict there of [00:17:00] like,
Kyley: conflict.
Eva: there's a conflict. But I will say, I don't think about it in that this is the reason we started having this conversation is cuz you messaged me and you're like, I'm thinking about death a lot,
Kyley: Yes. I'm also doing all the time. So it's not, yes.
Eva: I'm not, when I think about age, I don't think about death. I just think about like in the context of society.
Kyley: Oh, that's interesting. Cuz this is also why the age thing has, this has surprised me because like, my, my, one of my best friends, Ray and I, every time we get a gray hair, we like, like screw, like take a picture for each other. Right. And they have a lot of grays, Ray does. But like, like I have, like, like generally like, I don't know, I, I, I, I, I have not felt the same societal pressures around age and beauty.
Like, I have felt maybe because of the women in my life and, and the ways that I've watched them relate to aging like it's felt. Um, and like the, all those like very cool women who I've been lucky [00:18:00] enough to be friends with who are older than me. Like, it's just felt very clear to me that there's a million different ways to age.
And like, you get to pick your, I don't know, I haven't had, um,
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: I haven't had, uh, thankfully the, like, societal pressures until they didn't. I have, I have started now to notice them a a little bit, but, but it's more like, it's more like this, like, it's like, it's like the time is, it's like this pressure, which also I can see is like another societal thing and also kind of completely made up. Like I, I, there's a part of me that as I'm having this conversation, feels self-conscious. Like I'm thinking of my friends that I know who are older than me who listen to the show and I'm like, I can hear you all laughing at me and I'm sorry.
Eva: yes. But I do think this is a natural, you know, I don't wanna, I'm happy that we're convers having this conversation because even though our logical com theological brain can say like, this is silly. Like this is, um, I think normal, right? Like
Kyley: I, yes. And I think why it feels silly is because I'm so aware that 38 is not old. And so the fact that I [00:19:00] am feeling like. The fact that I'm feeling all of this emotional stuff is like, it's really surprising me, I think is the thing. Cuz I,
Eva: I
Kyley: because it's really logical, it logically doesn't make sense and also it feels really loud.
Um,
Eva: I think to say is like, I, is, is that social programming? I don't know. Like, is it that, like even when logically we're like, oh, this is great. I love being this age. There's still some like weird part of us that's like, Hmm, but this thing,
Kyley: it comes back to death for me where I'm like, yo, this age is great, but like, God damn, you're running out of time. Not because, just because like there's an expiration date, right? And I'm just like, every day I think it's like that. It's like every day I'm getting closer to the expiration date. I don't know when it is, but I'm getting closer to it.
And somehow that feels present for me. That knowing feels.
Eva: So that, that expiration date gets, I didn't, because like, I, okay, so I also just wanna pause really quick before we talk [00:20:00] about death and the expiration date is that I, I do think that having. People model for you what badass, wonderful, graceful aging looks like is so fucking huge. Um, and if you don't have that in your life, I would think, I would say like, get some.
And I, I do have that in my life now, but I feel like I, I could always use more of it. Um, that to me feels like a, like, I don't know if, if it's like a patriarchy issue, meaning like, Hmm, yeah, I don't, I, it's just very apparent to me that we're coming from this at two different angles. I'm really thinking about like societal pressure, about around age and you're thinking about death, which I think are both relevant. Oh, and the other thing that I wanted to say is the reason I think it's funny cuz we're not, we're not old, but you approached me saying that like you wanted to talk about middle age.
And I was like, wait, are we middle age ? Like that's.
Kyley: I think I called it a midlife crisis. [00:21:00] I
Eva: midlife crisis. Okay, so, sorry. Those are, but those are true fir terms or have been thrown around in my world a lot recently, which is I think is 40 middle age. That's the thing I'm confused about. I'm like, wait, but if you live to a hundred, which I feel like if you're, if you're privileged enough to not, if you're
Kyley: is the girl who still has all of her grandparents. You're like, yeah, I'm, I'm sticking around for a long time.
Eva: Then 50 is middle age. But I guess, yeah, that's just a trip to me because when I was younger I was like, oh, if you're middle age, you're like an old fart . That's like one thing. And then, yeah, you were talking about midlife crisis, which is also interesting to me. Cause I'm like, oh, is that, is this the age when people have that?
Kyley: I mean, so I think this is what's also, uh, so, okay, so there's kind of two things that are feel connected to me. One is this just awareness of like, I'm gonna die. And it just, sometimes I have greater access to that than others. And it doesn't necessarily like fill me with like overwhelming dread and horror, [00:22:00] but it's like, you know, but we're being real.
That's an uncomfortable thing to like, sit with. So that's one aspect that just just feels like, um, you know, like my body is like achy in a way that it wasn't when I was 27. And so, so there's that,
Eva: My body's body's achy all the time.
Kyley: yeah. And so, so there's like just my own imminent mortality that I'm aware of. Um, and, um, and then all of the like kind of spiritual philosophical implications therein.
And then there's. Feels like you could go into a midlife crisis bucket, which is like, oh, like did I do ever, did I do what I wanted to do? And like it feels like a, you know what it is? It feels like a, it feels like a moment of taking stock.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: like we make, our life is made of decisions, but so many of the decisions are like just passive train of like, you do one thing and then you do the next thing you do.
And there are just these moments [00:23:00] where I think when we're in integrity with ourselves, we like pause and reflect and kind of check in like, is this the path I wanna be on? And I can feel myself sitting with some of that energy it feels like, and it feels not dissimilar from the way people describe and it doesn't feel like overwhelming.
It doesn't feel, I don't feel full of regret. I don't have some desire to blow up my.
Eva: exactly, I don't get a sense that you're trying to like date a 25 year old and drive like a red convertible right now.
Kyley: Right. Correct. Correct. It's not, it's not like grasping for my youth per se, it's just more the sense of like, oh, there is an expiration date you don't like. You will at some point expire and so are you doing the things that you want to be doing? Are you living the life in integrity with your vision and your values?
Or are there changes that you need to make big or small? And then that those very questions and looping back to being kind of [00:24:00] uncomfortable cuz they're rooted in the fact that I'm gonna fucking die.
Eva: yeah. Okay. But, so this to me sounds like a good thing though. I think my question is, is the energy behind this like panicked though, or is it like a really grounded, like, oh, this is a good time to reassess Because essentially the questions you're asking I think are great and we're lucky if we can have the awareness to be like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Second. I really need to like reassess or like evaluate something so that I can course correct if I need to.
Kyley: It doesn't, it doesn't feel, it doesn't, definitely doesn't have the energy of like panic. I can see how if you ignored, right, if this is like a natural phase of like, you know, at some point between like 35 and 55, you assessed your life choices and I could see how if you ignored it and you got to 55, you might hit the explode by a red convertible date of 25 year old button, right?
Because like, because they're not inherently comfortable
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, so then I wanna know, like, do you wanna [00:25:00] talk about like, what's come up for you? Like, that's what I wanna know. Like
Kyley: Well, now that I've talked for all this time, I wanna talk about your stuff and I wanna talk about like societal pressures,
Eva: Okay. Okay. Hold on. I, I wanna talk about, I wanna talk about societal pressures. I also wanna talk about death, like
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: I feel like death is more pre present for a second. What, earlier you said sometimes you, you know, you have a sense that you're gonna die and you have more access to that. I'm curious what you meant.
Did you mean you can really feel it? Cause I think that's the truth. If there's any, if there's anything that's true in life is that we're gonna die. But I think we oftentimes, , it doesn't land for us because we're so in our day to day that we're like whatever. Right. And that's why when people have those near like near death experiences and they wake up, they're like reawakening.
They're like, oh my God, I'm a new person because I really see how valuable all of this is. Um, I think, is that what you mean by you have more access to it? Like you can really feel
Kyley: Yeah. It's like, I mean, I think we mostly have to disassociate from the [00:26:00] knowing that we're gonna die because how do you,
Eva: Well then I wonder if I'm disassociating because I don't, my feelings around death are like, like you're right. If I think if I really sat with it and knew that it was, it could all end tomorrow, it would be like just, it would knock me off my feet in like a
Kyley: couldn't function.
Eva: Yeah, exactly. It could also be really beautiful, but like it would just overwhelm me with if, with a lot of different things.
But I think right now, I don't know. I, I, I think a lot of my attitude about death oftentimes is like, I don't wanna suffer when I die, like a long death where I'm like bleeding out or something. But I don't know. I feel like if it were all over, and this is gonna, I don't mean this like in a depressed way. Cause I think I have experienced depression before, and I've said this in a depressed way, but like, if it was all over, I'd be like, I don't know. There's just, I don't know how to explain it. It would be like, [00:27:00] I, okay, hold on.
I need to pa I, Jen, I might ask to edit this out, but what I kind of wanna say is like, I'd be like, cool. Like, like, like, because there wouldn't be, cuz it's, it, I don't know how to explain it. I don't know how to explain it. So I'm really self-conscious about saying it. Cause I don't wanna sound flippant about death, but, but I am like, if it ended and I didn't know that it ended, I.
Kyley: Mm,
Eva: I would be like, if I got like in a car accident and I just died instantly,
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: I couldn't be afraid.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: Sometimes how, what I feel about death is like, you know, if I didn't have to suffer and I just died instantly, it would just be, and I didn't know it, it would just be done
And that's kind of how I feel sometimes about death. And I don't know if that sounds too flippant, but.
Kyley: it doesn't sound flipping to me, but I think what I'm feeling is a little, a little bit different. Um, which is, how do I say this? [00:28:00] I think what I'm, I have these moments. Where it's like, I'm just sitting in the awareness that I will cease to exist as I know myself, right? It's like, yes, obviously I believe that we continue in some form.
Like I talk to my grandmother every fucking day and she's not in Embody anymore, right? Like, like obviously I have like a deep sense of like, something, some way I don't completely cease to exist and I will, I will cease to exist , right? Like that's the paradox. And I sometimes have these moments where I can like feel the truth of that. And it isn't necessarily like, um, it's not, it's not panic, but it's also [00:29:00] not. easy to like sit to like truly sit and like feel in your body. The awareness that at some point you will not exist.
Eva: so I, one of my teachers does this thing where, you know, cause that this is, this is basically what Buddhism is all about. In, in, in some ways it's this idea of, um, change and immortality. Like how it's, that this is like a finite experience that we have.
Um, and when I have teachers who have people sit with that and it's like, it can be like so, like, whoa revelatory and, and amazing and scary and whatever. And when you, it's true. When you put it that way, like, I will cease to exist. That does feel a little, yeah. Way more intense. I think what's interesting about it is the, it's the awareness of the fact that you will cease to exist that causes the suffering or not the suffering,
Kyley: I don't even, it's, sorry. It's not even [00:30:00] suffering though.
Eva: No, not suffering. The, the, the, feeling of just. Yeah, it's not, it's not suffering. The feeling of
Oh,
Kyley: It totally could be, but it, I'm not experiencing it as suffering.
Eva: yeah.
Right. I think the difference is, well, I feel like we're talking about two different things, and one is like when you actually die, you're done. So you don't have the consciousness to go and, and intellectually or physically understand that I will cease to exist. And so I think that's why that doesn't, that moment doesn't scare me so much because at that time I won't be, I think what is more all consuming is the ability to have the consciousness that you will cease to exist.
Do you know what I mean?
Kyley: Yes. Um, yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying is like, I can't fucking control it, so I'm like, there's like an element of surrender that I hear feel like you're speaking to because there's just this awareness of like, well, I can't control it. It's coming for me. So,
Eva: Yeah. And also [00:31:00] when it happens though, . But before it might suck. I might be suffering, but when it happens, it will be release.
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: But I think the thing about being a human though, is that we do have the capacity to consciously understand that we will cease to exist. And that's a fucking trip.
Kyley: Right. And again, like some version of you can continue to, right. So this isn't a,
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. We, this isn't a pa this we, we could have many conversations about what happens after death.
Kyley: right. And I, for the people who are listening, like, I thought this was a spiritual podcast, and now they're saying that I stop existing. Like, I really like this whole soul business so
Eva: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. But you, as you current, like you, as you currently experience
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: We don't know what it'll be, but it won't be exactly this.
Um, uh, I think what has been interesting to me is, These [00:32:00] moments of like really feeling and witnessing mortality. There are times that they feel anxiety provoking, but there are other times that they feel like, like, like the best fucking seasoning,
Eva: Ooh, the best loving seasoning. Is that what you said?
Kyley: Like if you were like cooking and it was like, like the perfect season, right?
There's like, there's like a way in which it's like, okay,
Eva: I just love that analogy.
Kyley: there's like a part of me that's like, oh, if I gave myself permission to like hold in my heart the potency of this, how could I give a fuck about all the stupid things that I worry about, right? Like, how could I get, like if I carried in my heart, not the fear, not the existential dread of like time's running out.
So I gotta make sure I get, make the most of it, which is also there for me. But if I could hold in my heart, like the raw awareness like this. Ceases to exist. Like [00:33:00] the moment it happens, it ceases to exist. Right? All of that. If I could actually hold that awareness and like be that awareness, oh my God, how amazing would
Eva: your, your whole life would change. Your whole life
Kyley: life would change and it would just be like, I mean, in some ways it would be ecstasy and like wild grief all at the same time, you know?
Eva: Well, I, I think that's what enlightenment is.
Kyley: Yeah, I do.
Eva: like, like I think that, this is what I say when I, when I said that this is what Buddhism is all about, one of the primary tenets of Buddhism is impermanence. So it's like, if you are actually aware that, which is what I think you're experiencing right now, I think you're experiencing a moment of awareness of like a live awareness of your impermanence and therefore it's putting everything into perspective for you.
Cuz you're like, oh, these things that I. Worry about so much. Don't actually matter so much. There's like a lightness in that.
Kyley: And it's funny cuz I think the word perspective usually feels very mind for me,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: but it's like, . It's like when, and again, again, these are not all the time, and [00:34:00] some of the times they kick me into like a panic. I gotta like write, I gotta start the book. Oh my God, I haven't written the book yet. Right. So again, it's, it's a spectrum of responses, but when I have access to it and I can sit in it, it's, it is like, it's, it's, when I think of perspective, I often think of a thing that I need to do and I need to like, fix my mind, like focus, focus here instead of there. And, and so I'm, um, and I'm offering that it's, it's the kind of perspective shift that happens without efforts. Like, if you sit in the energy and allow the honesty of your own impermanence, then everything just is different. You don't have to like, make yourself think, right? You don't have to make, you don't have to do anything with that knowing.
Just the, the awareness of that changes everything.
Eva: Yes. It's, well, I think it's like, or yeah, it's like, uh, it's the difference between like intellectually [00:35:00] knowing and knowing, knowing . Right. So, okay. So what I wanna know is what's come up for you in these moments of like, like I think you, you have, you have access to something right now that's actually.
Powerful, right? That like everyone can benefit from when we can sit with our impermanence in a, in a way that isn't freaking us out. So as I feel like what I'm hearing is there's a little bit of like taking stock.
Kyley: Well, I think that's what I'm, I think the language of taking stock feels like it's, again, that feels very like, oh, okay. So there's kind of two responses that happen. One is the taking stock, which is my mind taking over. That's like, that's right, you are gonna die. So like, go do things. And like
Eva: So that's more of the anxious,
Kyley: that feels more.
Eva: the graspy controlling, yeah.
Kyley: And it can, and the volume can be loud on that. That's like Google. How late do people start writing their first book, right? Like, that's an actual thing that I thought about doing the other day. [00:36:00] Or it can be like a quieter rumbling that's like, huh, is this a midlife crisis? Right? So it can be like quieter, loud, but the taking stock feels like my mind being like, well, this is uncomfortable.
Let's do something about it. But there's other moments that mostly happen. Like if I'm putting Birdie to bed, she's really a great empire. , that's like, can just see differently for a moment
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and I can just like hold, um, maybe hold isn't the right word, but it's like this feeling moved through me that's just like ho like my body remembering like, oh yeah, this, we don't, this doesn't forever.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and I can't. Um, and I think the, the more magical experience happens when I don't try to do anything with the, like, when the awareness shows up, and then I just let it keep showing up as opposed to the awareness [00:37:00] showing up and then me being like, oh yeah, let's go take stock. Does that answer your question?
Eva: yeah, yeah. Yes. But also as someone who's like greedy and I want like the goods , I'm like, okay. So then when you feel that way with birdie, not that there's anything to do, but it's like, um, well I guess maybe it's like, I think I'm asking all these questions cause I wanna understand the experience. So then my question's like, so then how do you feel or what, is there a change that happens? Like e even if that change is that simply you are present because you're like, oh, this is it.
Kyley: Okay. I, I wonder if maybe the way to answer this is to. Walk us through a like mini journey.
Eva: Ooh, I, ooh, I
Kyley: Are we gonna do a death journey on the podcast
Eva: Okay. Welcome to the first official death journey on the podcast. I'm like a little nervous.
Kyley: Uh, yeah. Should we try that?
Eva: I'm
Kyley: Okay. All right. All right. I'm also [00:38:00] chuckling that I'm just chuckling that this, this is the episode that I was like, Hey, hire me to be your business coach. And then it's just me being like, also, you're gonna die.
Eva: Yeah. I mean that's, you know, you've got range
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Um,
Eva: but, and, and for people who are listening, know that you may not have turned tuned into this podcast, you know, signing up for a, a death journey, but I encourage you to like, you know, you can skip, you know, like listen to this part, but if you are actually interested, like to, if you are gonna practice this to find space later on in the day when you're not like driving or washing the dishes and maybe like, go on this little journey.
Right?
Kyley: Yeah. Oh, but also do this while you're doing washing the dishes, like, don't make
Eva: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Kyley: mean, maybe like, if you're driving, don't close your eyes, but like, you know, I think,
um,
Eva: isn't like a, okay, I got it.
Kyley: yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I could, I could record if people are interested, I could record like an actual, like, big journey.
That could be fun. I love killing people in Journey. I do it kind of a [00:39:00] lot, but I was just thinking more of a like, like a mini like drop in journey.
Eva: Okay. Yeah. Let's do it.
Kyley: Close your eyes and just take a moment to pull yourself back to yourself. Just with each in breath, just notice how wide reaching your energy is and just invite it to pull back into your body. It can come fast, it can come slow. Just observe. Each time you inhale, more of you comes back to you and the exhaler a soften and a release. And then on the inhale there's a return and release. And feel for a moment how [00:40:00] your breathing the earth moves through you and out and the air around you shifts according to your. and begin to invite an awareness of your heart center. And perhaps there's a door in your heart. Perhaps you see the door in your heart and you swing it wide open and you let yourself fall in and through and down. And perhaps now that you have opened [00:41:00] the door of your heart and you are falling and falling and falling, and you are held as you fall, perhaps it is floating. and in this space of floating in between, welcome the knowing that you time will not last. Invite in the remembering that you are fluid and that this is not real static [00:42:00] and begin to dissolve the edges. What you think you are, what you think you must hold.
And as you breathe in the oxygen that gives you life, breathe in the awareness that you will die. And as you exhale the release, surrender to that which is [00:43:00] your permanent state of impairments. See this like the seeds of a garden planted this knowing, this, remembering the liberation. That is the remembering. And as you breathe, you continue to draw in the remembering and surrender to your own impermanence. [00:44:00] There's nothing to hold or. Breathe in and witness your existence as the paradox of life and death. Whenever so slowly pour yourself back into your physical form. Bring your awareness to your toes, your ankles, your knees, your hips. Pour yourself back into your intestines and your lungs and your heart through your throat. Pour yourself back into the mind, [00:45:00] down your fingertips. When you are ready, return and open your eyes. How you feeling pal?
Eva: I love that
I came back in, but, um, [00:46:00] I didn't wanna come out of that.
Kyley: Oh, I love that response.
Eva: I mean, honestly, like, I, like I really wanted to sit in it for longer and maybe I will take a listen again after this and say that, but, um, how was that for you,
Kyley: I mean, it was fun. That's why I fucking love magic.
Eva: I mean, can I share about my experience? Um, yeah, I, listeners, I would really love to know how other people experienced it, if you were able to, you know, like, like fall into that with us. But, um, I don't.
Kyley: Oh, also, let me just add, if you, if you listened and there was a lot of buffering, if you sat through that and it was not, and you didn't have some transcending experience, I always like to remind people like, The journey you need is a journey you have. And the resistance is often its own delicious medicine.
Like there's no getting it right. I think that's just important cuz sometimes people journey and they're like, well I was distracted and I wasn't in it [00:47:00] so I did it wrong.
Eva: Right. Right, right.
Kyley: little psa.
Eva: Yes. I think that's always a good thing to say, and I'm glad you said there's no getting it, no getting it right or wrong, because I think that was actually my, what I, I was just about to say like, I don't know what experience I was supposed to have, but like, I felt happiness. I felt like, um, that's why I didn't wanna come out of it.
I was like, I can say this forever. I felt a deep appreciation for my life and I felt, um, yeah, I don't know how to explain it. Just like relief. I think I feel relief when I'm like, oh, , this is all gonna end, but not like, in a bad way. Not like in a, oh, life is suffering and I'm suffering. And I, I'm like in a pretty good place right now.
And I, and also I'm like, and then you could just let go Like, that's how [00:48:00] my, that feeling was, was like, oh yeah. Sweet, sweet surrender. And when you were talking about the edges of you dissolving, I was like, yeah. I was like, I was like, yes. Like I wanna dissolve, like, I don't like holding onto the edges of myself. I just wanna, I just wanna blur, I just wanna, I feel like I am just by, you know, molecules and, and, and energy and that's meant to be mixed in with everything.
It's not meant to be this like solid form that, that felt like going back to my natural state of being
Kyley: oh.
Eva: and it felt useful. But that's why I'm like, wait, I don't know if I had the right response because. I don't wanna sound flippant. I also know people have a real fear of death, and so I know people who like, you know, it's scary and I get it, so I don't wanna sound insensitive.
Kyley: I don't think it sounds insensitive. That was your experience.
Eva: Yeah,
Kyley: [00:49:00] Um,
Eva: just wonder. Yeah, it's just interesting how I also have so many stories because on that coattails of that, I'm like, oh, yeah, I, I think I have a weird thing about how I, I'm like, oh, is this gonna come bite me in the ass? Like, of course tomorrow something's gonna happen and I'm gonna like start fearing death now.
Kyley: which then, great, because then that's just, that's the constant shifting stands, right? Because that's, that's my, um, I mean, thank you for letting me, it's funny. I think that's the first time I've done magic on the podcast.
Eva: No, you've done it before. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: I have no recollection. My can't . Um,
Eva: but yeah. But mm-hmm.
Kyley: Um, but I think I'm always so grateful.
Cause what rises up in those, those moments is like, it's the remembering of like, oh, I can feel in those moments a [00:50:00] deep connection to the me who remembers that she's everything and nothing. And so then I, in those moments, it's easy for me to remember, like, control how funny, uh, like what a funny thing to think.
You could control anything. Right? Then I immediately come out and I'm like, grasping, controlling like 10 minutes later. Right? So,
Eva: Yeah, so that's the other thing that I wanna say is like, that's a really interesting experience that you just facilitated for us, and I am also. Still worried that, I'm trying to think of some superficial thing that I'm worried about. I'm still worried that my hands are gonna be really wrinkly at 50 if I don't start putting, putting sunscreen screen on my hands.
like that's the funny thing. That's like what's hilarious about all of this
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think the gift that I keep coming back to lately is just the reminder of how much there, like not, there's no such thing as static. [00:51:00] And so much of my, like control seeking or like worrying or fixing is trying to create some static place that that static place will be sta by static I just mean like thing, nothing's changing, right?
And that in that place, then it will be safe and. This is why, if you remember a while ago, I've had an whole episode where I like wax poetic about chaos because that's what impermanence is, right? Impermanence and chaos are the same, are like the same kind of energy. And my experience in facilitating that and holding that was just like reweaving. That the only thing that is, the only thing that's true is that everything is like that.
Everything's, IM permanent and everything is chaos. And so how funny that I think I even can control, nevermind that I think I need to, or that it would be a good use of my time. So yeah, of course surrender who you're speaking to feels like I, I don't know, I'm getting kind of trippy, but like basically [00:52:00] death is life.
Surrender is the access point to being alive.
Eva: Yeah, I mean, honestly, you sound like a Buddhist like that. That's it. Death is life and yeah,
Kyley: Yeah. I mean, you know, my, I had some early, early teachers who were Buddhist. It's, uh, it's not, not in, it's not,
Eva: right, right, right, right.
Kyley: you know?
Eva: How you ever talked to the, the, oh God. There's this quote that I, we talked about in my like teacher course where they're like oh yeah. The cause of death is birth
Kyley: Oh, yeah.
Eva: Have you ever heard people say that the cause of death is birth and I, and I just think they're, yeah, they're the same fucking thing.
but Yes, and I just, I love that saying because I just, I think it shows us how they're, the two are really just so closely related.
Kyley: And I think the thing I've been really witnessing is how this idea of [00:53:00] surrender is this deep, infinite, well, that there's like only more to go. And somehow that feels deeply connected to feel your feelings instead of fix and death is life. And like hold the discomfort, allow the discomfort of your own impermanence being the entry point to ecstasy.
I don't know all, it's like all of these different places are cooking inside of me and I can feel them like weaving together. in this really beautiful tapestry that's also happening at the same time that I'm like on my phone fucking five hours a day. Right. Like
Eva: I know, right? This is why the human experience is so fucking weird, because it's like layered and nuanced and
Kyley: it's like if [00:54:00] I had heard myself, if I had heard like, you know, 28 year old will all her tick nut Han books, like talking like this, I'd be like, hi girls. If fucking figured out, right? Like, I bet she meditates all the time. And like, you know, is like, that must be, and yes, like my life is so great and I feel so joyful for who I am becoming.
And also I'm a still also a neurotic nutball, you know?
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: You know.
Eva: Um, but I think being able to actually hold space for the contradiction is also growth, like, for sure, because it's not the black and white, like back and forth, back and forth thinking, you know.
Kyley: I think I could be better at that.
Eva: Mm. But I think, I feel like really, I feel like you just explained that's what you're doing. You know, you're experiencing
Kyley: I'm, I'm acknowledging that both are true, but I'm really hard on myself about like, you know, oh, like you have these transcendent moments about death and then you're like spending [00:55:00] hours playing solitary and you're like, I just, I I definitely, that's definitely the thing that I judge myself for that.
Um,
Eva: Yeah, I get it. That's true.
Kyley: you keep touching into mag this like deep transcendence and then like you're making dumpy choices of how to spend your free time.
Eva: Yeah. I get, I don't know, I guess the compassionate, like the, because I hear you. I, so I, to give you, I feel the same way. Like I was saying, like I can have this deep understanding of impermanence or infiniteness, but I am still, and like we, maybe this will be a conversation for another time, but I'm still hung up on some of like the, the.
Superficial or like things about aging and, but none of it's wrong. I think we don't make any of it wrong. You know, I think that's something that you often say, and I think that that's
Kyley: yeah. It's like your second arrow story. Your second arrow. I'm thinking of your second arrow lesson
Eva: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: Which we're new to the [00:56:00] podcast. Eva often points out this parable about the first arrow hurts, but then we new in the
Eva: ourselves a second time. Yeah. That's usually the judgment that actually, like, then we like wound ourselves even more and it hurts even more when we're already suffering for some reason. Yeah. All right.
Kyley: This didn't go where I thought it would.
Eva: No, well, I think it's because there's more to unpack. I, I feel like actually I would love to make this like a series or maybe what, I definitely wanna have more conversations about it cause I, yeah.
Um, I don't wanna open this can of worms now, but I, I do wanna have the conversation. , the superficial like societal things about aging that I feel sometimes, and that you can probably walk me through in a really brilliant way. I will say that like I, and I do think of the two of us, that has come up for me a lot more.
Cause I think I oftentimes I bring to the table this idea of like, oh, because I'm not living a traditional life and by traditional life I just mean like, I'm not married and I don't have kids by a certain age or whatever. [00:57:00] Um, and then now I've also kind of like have gone in this other, I I feel like I'm diving deeper into, maybe more off the beaten pathway of life possibly.
Um, that comes up against societal expectations a lot. And so for me that's like all mixed in with age.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Yeah. Um, so I wanna have a conversation about that and then we are gonna invite your friend back on. And then we also invited this. What middle age, like she talks about middle age a lot. Right. This other person who, I don't know if she's gonna come out on the show, but if she did, that'd be amazing.
Kyley: We've been inviting some very cool people on the show to talk about death and aging. Um, um, yeah, so more to come on this topic, but I, I, I am really grateful for this space because I don't think I realize that before, but it has, it feels really cool to talk about to like sit with this questioner on.
without making it right or [00:58:00] wrong.
Eva: Mm, mm-hmm.
Kyley: Right. Um, so
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, there's a lot more to explore here because also aging is really just about time. And you and I have huge hangouts about time. Like that's, that's, that's what it really is. It's like, it's just another measurement of time. Or like, is there enough time? Is there enough time?
Like, like I really, so you know, you said for you there's different ways that this. Death stuff is showing up. And one of them is this really beautiful way that you just walked us through. And then also there's the neurotic part. I wanna talk about that too. Cause I think that's, yeah, I think that's relevant.
And I think a lot of people, yeah, it's like the assessment of like, well I, I, I mean I think, yes, we talked about how that's like a doing mode, but I think there's value in assessing at some point of like, wait, am I living my life the way that I want to?
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And that kind of was also where I was when I broke up with Adam, this idea of like, wait, I [00:59:00] like, this is supposed to be my forever person, but like, we're not happy.
And I had to just like, there was a reflection period of like, wait. And also I don't want this to be the rest of my life. Like,
Kyley: yeah, yeah.
Eva: all of that is lumped together somewhere, some.
Kyley: Which is funny cuz um, I think we're talking about it within the lens of like being a particular age, and also that's also like a que like that's a question that we're constantly have the opportunity to be asking, right? It's like, is this, is this what I want?
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Kyley: whatever this is, is this what I want?
And then if it's not, what comes next? And there's like small ways that we ask this question and there's like the kind of like wrangling, overthinking ways that we ask this question. But then I think there are these like bigger moments
Eva: How like powerful where you're asking it from a place of like feeling empowered [01:00:00] rather than like flustered?
Kyley: I mean, I don't know. I imagine you didn't always feel empowered when you're making your decisions about
Eva: Oh no, not at all. You saw me, I was always, there's a lot of flu, there's a lot of flubbing, flustering going around. Um,
Kyley: I think I, I think, I mean more like, there's like these big moments, like there's, there's like these reckoning moments in our lives where we're like, is this what I want in a big picture kind of way? And then I think there are these times that we're just kind of like nitpicking of like, I don't think my job, my job is stress, but it's not the same as like, is this what I want with my life?
And it's like the scope of the question and the like, I think like weight that we give our hungers shifts. Does that make
Eva: yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: All right. Well, I guess we know what we're gonna be talking about
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: here for a while.
Kyley: The death season. Also, I will say, um, if you loved my death [01:01:00] journey, which come on, it was great. Everybody loves a good death journey. Um, uh, aside from hiring me to be your business coach, that is Magic Circle. Magic Circle is just more of that with a dialed up intensity with me and Liz, uh, in community.
So if that was something that spoke to you, uh, a thousand percent come and sign up for me. Magic Circle like tomorrow.
Eva: You love it? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I feel like I could probably use a couple more magic circles in my life too. Yeah.
Kyley: technically stop selling singles tickets. You just have to join the membership. But I might be able to, I know a person I
might be able to let you in. Um,
Eva: Do you wanna do joy? Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. What's bringing you.
Eva: Mm. Okay. So what's bringing me joy this week? There? Uh oh. Um, oh, okay. Can I share two things? Okay. Two things. Um, sometimes, you know, you just have two things. Okay. This one's actually a really, uh, the small [01:02:00] one, and then the bigger one is I just discovered bon hair bonnets slash really, really what we all know is a do rag.
So my mind is fucking, I didn't know this was a fucking thing, but you like, put a bonnet over your hair. I mean, this is just gonna sound so fucking dumb because people have been doing this forever. But essentially what I'm saying is like, I've never actually had one and Eliza had a bonnet. She sleeps when you put it over your hair at night and then you wake up in the morning and your hair's like so fucking awesome still, and you have really short hair, so this like probably doesn't
apply to
Kyley: is not gonna work for me.
Eva: Yeah. But you know, for us, um, essentially what black people have been, have been knowing for a long time is like, this is how you protect your hair at night. It's, I don't know, I'm just like, wow, I'm really, really late to the game, . So
Kyley: I love this.
Eva: that is like a little joy in my life and the bigger joy. Oh yeah. So do you remember me telling you that I want to sing and dance more in my life? Did I ever say that? [01:03:00] Yeah. That, that was like, and yeah, I think part of what happened when I was in a relationship, and this happens all the time, this isn't like a. I just think it's sometimes natural. You just kind of get stuck in your ways, right?
And you get comfortable and there are things that you say you're gonna do and then you never fucking do them because it's just easier to like snuggle at home and watch Netflix. Um, but singing and dancing were things that I, my like body and my soul craved.
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: I didn't fucking do them. And anyway, so now that I'm here in Austin and like, that's part of what I was looking forward to in my singledom was like having like a push to just do what I really wanted to do.
And so on Monday, I went to go check out a choir because like, how else do you sing in life? Sure I can go to karaoke, but like to me, like wanted to sing and like with people, and it just reminded me of being in my like twenties when I was living in New York. And I would go out and I would like do new things and actually like [01:04:00] put myself out there.
And that's like, I'm proud of myself because this is, this is what I wanted. This is like what I imagined for myself that I would do and I'm doing it. , and I don't even know if I'm like, really gonna join this choir long term. I might, but it just feels like something, like I'm feeding, like a nourishing thing that I'm, that I've been like de like really hungry for that.
I'm filling my cup in this way. And yeah. I'm just like, you know, that's the thing about moving to a new city is that it forces you to like try things and open up and meet people. And I was really hungry for that. For, yeah, for a while. So. Yay.
Kyley: so much.
Eva: Yay. Yeah. Um, what about you, Kylie?
Kyley: Okay. I also have two
Eva: Ooh, yay.
Kyley: is, um, so listeners might remember that my mentor Will Wise passed away a little over a year ago. I have tattoo in part memory [01:05:00] of him, um, to remind me of who I wanna be instead of what I wanna do. Anyway, he's a real, like a, a giant in my life, and I, um, really love all the ways that he, um, helped me become me.
Um, and one of the ways that I, um, was in community with him is that he had this group, this, let's call it this, connect the connectors. and, uh, it was this small group of, there were like, maybe like six of us, and we met every other week, said like, workshop, how to weave connection. That was ostensibly, it was also about like a million other things.
Um, but anyway, he ended up running two sections of it. And, um, long story short, those, like a bunch of us from Will's Connection Lab have continued his work. And so over a year later, we still meet every other week, um, to wi like just to like [01:06:00] to, to particularly to commit to the kind of the ways that Will taught us to exist in the world and to stay in integrity with like his magic and to make it our own and to hold each other.
And,
Eva: as a way of honoring him. Like that's how I see it. It's like you're doing your own work, but you are honoring him in this way.
Kyley: and it's like one of the things that will always taught was, um, , like who you are gonna be if you were like, when you are, your intention, like when you are embodying your intention, like the, the magic that happens so far exceeds what you can imagine. And like , you brought a bunch of people together to talk about connection and then so thoroughly embodied connection that a year and a half later after he is died, we're still meeting every other week.
Like, like, like it's just such a perfect example of the very medicine that he offered. Anyway, I love these humans so much. Shout out to Ellen who listens to the podcast if you're listening to this one. [01:07:00] Um, um, I've been trying to convince Ellen to come on the show, so maybe this will be her, her push. But anyway, um,
Eva: Do it.
Kyley: I'm just like so grateful for this space.
Like it's just so, and there are people from a whole variety of ages and different parts of the country and different backgrounds and. every single week. I just feel like, or every single time we meet, I'm just like, oh, that completely changed my life. every time. Like, they're just the best. I love these humans.
So, um, shout out to Will's connectors lab. Um, and as if that alone wasn't enough, um, I went sledding in a snowstorm with my kids and like, what the hell is better than that?
Eva: Nothing. Oh, man. Playing in the snow, I think, with kids is just like, yeah, that's, those are those pure, joyful moments.
Kyley: was really, really, really, really fun. And then one point that Desi like fell off of his sled and like face planted in like you, like you [01:08:00] do, and he just was like cracking out. He just thought it was the funniest thing in the world. And yeah, we just had, it was like a huge snowstorm in Maine, my visiting my parents and ugh,
it
Eva: That just sounds cozy and nice and wintry.
Kyley: in the snow.
So,
Eva: Hmm. Yay. Yay for, yeah. The fun winter moments,
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you listeners. We love you so much.
Eva: Um, if you like the show, subscribe, that really helps. Share it with a friend. If you wanna talk to your friends about death,
Kyley: yeah, yeah. This would be like, that's what I want. Send your friends this podcast and then be like, let's all discuss.
Eva: all death and aging. Yeah. Um, if there's a show that you think we'd be a good fit for, let us know. We're always trying to get onto other podcasts. Um, anything else? I forgot, Kylie.
Kyley: What do you think? You're the greatest?
Eva: Yeah. We love you guys.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Bye.