In the first ever Hello Universe advice column-style episode, we answer two big questions from you, our listeners! In this episode, we tackle: 1. How do I stop projecting my money stuff onto other people? I get honked off when people do something I would want to do differently, but in reality do myself. 2. How do I trust and live more from my desire? In our judeo christian culture and patriarchy, following my desire as a woman feels particularly changed.
In the first ever Hello Universe advice column-style episode, we answer two big questions from you, our listeners!
In this episode, we tackle:
1. (6:05) - How do I stop projecting my money stuff onto other people? I get honked off when people do something I would want to do differently, but in reality do myself.
2. (38:56) - How do I trust and live more from my desire? In our judeo christian culture and patriarchy, following my desire as a woman feels particularly changed.
Do you feel stuck or confused and need some advice?
Is there something troubling you that you'd like us to weigh in on? We can support you! Email your questions to podcast@hellouniversepod.com or DM us on instagram
MORE: a money masterclass
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Hi! I'm Kylie!
Eva: I'm Eva,
Kyley: Welcome back to Hello Universe! Oh
Eva: a very, very special episode of Hello Universe at that.
Kyley: my God, that just made me think of like, um, like, you know, those special episodes of TV from when we were kids
Eva: yeah, they're doing the
Kyley: were like saved by the bell when she takes speed or something
Eva: Or no, or they have like a special guest star, something that makes it special. Yes. Well, we actually technically do have special guest stars this week and our guest stars are you all dear listeners who we love and adore so much. And we're finally doing this thing that we've been wanting to do for so long, which is [00:01:00] to find a way to welcome you all into our conversation more so we can feel more connected and to celebrate the friendship that we feel so strongly about on the show.
Kyley: yeah, maybe these are our best guests yet.
Eva: Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. So, so Kylie, why don't you tell them a little bit about what I mean?
Kyley: So this episode is, um, the first of we suspect many Q and a episodes, uh, advice column style hello universe advice column style. So we recruited some, some questions from you, our listeners, and, uh, even now you're going to unpack some of them. We're going to dive into them. Some of them are very juicy and we have no idea what the answer is yet.
So we're going to find out together, uh, and. We're super fucking jazzed because a, we love nothing more than coaching and unpacking complicated questions for all the obvious reasons. And, um, These are just really gorgeous questions.
Eva: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:02:00] And I mean, um, this is kind of our zone of genius. Like this is what Kylie and I do for each other and what we do, you know, inside and outside of our life, like in our jobs. And one thing that I was saying to Kylie is like, I want to be able to make that happen. Yeah. Available and accessible to more people and sort of take down the wall of like, wait, like, what's actually possible here, you know, for people?
And so, um, yeah, just really excited. And can't wait to see how this unfolds.
Kyley: Yeah. Also, this is now, this is the era of hello universe where we, we, we blow up her advice column. So, so you have to send us really good questions so we can do more of this.
Eva: Yeah, or actually send us really bad, send us all your questions, the bad questions, the good questions. I want, I want
Kyley: I just want juicy questions, you know, like gossipy, messy, like your deep esoteric ones. I also want, we have one in the queue for a future episode about like, is [00:03:00] there free? Well, can't wait for that. But I also like really want like my coworker, he's microwaving fish and I don't know what to do about it.
Eva: Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Or like, okay, your juicy like, yeah, relationship, like sexy polyamorous situation with all of that. So just a bit of background. Kylie has said that like she wants, yeah, like the Advice column style questions like what do I do when XYZ is like driving me crazy and I actually really love esoteric esoteric mystical like cosmos cosmological questions and so send them all to us and um, get ready to have your mind blown. Okay,
Kyley: before we jump in to answer these awesome questions, uh, do you have anything you want our list to promote to our listeners?
Eva: well, I think you had something you wanted to promote, right? Right.
Kyley: I do. Um, I, uh, I have a workshop coming up on the 24th. It's called more a money masterclass [00:04:00] it's, um, I've been swimming in the medicine of it since I picked the date it's with my pal, Liz Simpson.
Y'all, it's been initiating the shit out of me this workshop. Um, so, I am supremely, supremely jazzed for how big this feels, and if you are fucking sick of the feeling of not enough, and the feeling of not having enough, and the feeling of not being enough, come to MORE. It's gonna blow your mind. It's so much fun.
Eva: Oh, more is such a good name. I just love it so much. I can feel the vibe of it. I feel like that might even be, um, speak to one of the questions that we have today around desire that I can't wait to get into. So everybody jump on it. I love Kylie's workshops. They're always just so jam packed with like energy and vibe and I always leave with like clarity and yeah, they're just the best.
And is this one free?
Kyley: They're open. Yeah, it's free.
Eva: That's fucking free y'all. Okay. So
Kyley: always, and here's the secret, I don't do anything different [00:05:00] when I do it for you versus when I make, when I, when it's paid. Uh, and I always, my intention for these workshops is always essential, is always that it is, it changes you. So if you would like a change around money, come to this workshop,
Eva: Oh, I love that. Yeah. And I've, I've experienced that firsthand, so highly recommend. Yay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Yay. Okay. So, Before we jump into our questions, quick reminder that if you have a juicy question for us, you can email us at the email in the show notes, which is podcast.
Kyley: at hello universe pod. com
Eva: Thank you. Or you can find Kylie and I on the Instagrams and our emails, wherever, just drop them in and we will
Kyley: carrier pigeon. At this point, just send us your questions.
Eva: Yeah, I mean, if you're really telepathic, maybe you can just like, you know, just make sure you add a name at the end when you're sending them to us mentally.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: Okay, so let's get to our first question. [00:06:00] Kylie, do you want to start us off?
Kyley: Sure. Okay. Here is our very first question for our advice column. How do I stop giving unsolicited advice and get my ego invested with other people's actions on money? Lots of crying while laughing emojis because right now I get super honked off.
Eva: Yeah, Honk'd
Kyley: this was supposed to say pissed off. Sorry y'all.
I could have
Eva: No, Honk'd Off is a, uh, it's a phrase. I think so, yeah, I'm hopped off.
Kyley: I've never heard that before, but I love it. Okay. Right now I get super honked off when people do something I would want to do differently. But in reality, it's the exact shit I do myself when I'm not managing my money well. In short, I'm getting pissed at other people that they are making the same mistakes I make.
So I'm telling them what to do and then getting irritated when they don't do it. How do I get out of projection?
Eva: Oh, I love this question so much. Thank you, dear one, for sending this in. Um,[00:07:00]
Kyley: Can I say something I love about this question before we even start to tackle it? I love, I can, I can feel that this, this person is. Frustrated with themselves. Obviously, that's apparent in it. Like, I think we all have moments of like, oh, why am I doing this thing? And I really love the compassionate self awareness, right?
Which is like, I am pissed at these other people because I am pissed at me. And so I think I am just loving that this person is acknowledging that they're pissed and frustrated. But they are also not taking risk. I don't mean taking responsibility in a like buck up kind of way, but there is a, there's an empowerment.
I think that comes when we're in frustrating patterns and we recognize that we're in those patterns because on some level, they are our creation. I think that there's actually something really empowering when we can see that. And not slip into self loathing victim y shit, which is tempting, but just see clearly, like, Oh, I'm making this.
So the question is, how do I [00:08:00] unmake it? I'm gonna throw
Eva: Oh, 100%. Yeah, I would agree. And I think the, the last line in that is very telling because she's saying, she's not saying what do I do about these other people who are annoying the fuck out of me. She's saying, she even says that I am projecting, like, what do I do about projection and how do I really stop projecting my stuff onto other people?
Um, okay, so. Do you have any initial thoughts or
Kyley: it to you first.
Eva: Okay. Okay. Let's go. Okay. So, I think this is where I love my mind, because I can think I can come into this from such a, like, clear strategic place. I can already see the outline of the notes that I want to share, which is, like, part one is I want to spend a section of time just talking about what projection is, and, like, looking at that, and then, Part two is like, why is this happening?
And once I think we understand why it's happening, then we can start to, like, awareness is always, like, such an important piece. Then we can start to, um, give ourselves what it is that we need, essentially, so that we don't have to do this anymore. [00:09:00] That's where my mind goes. Okay?
Kyley: great. Can you educate us on projection?
Eva: Okay. Ah.
Kyley: Also, I just got very excited about this segment of our show because I realized that I was going to get to see, I receive your coaching all the time as a recipient and it's. The best, but I'm realizing that what I'm now going to get to see is like, watch, right?
Like watch a genius performance instead of just receive a genius performance. And I am very excited. You know, like when, you know, when like people are like in medical school and they like watch the surgeon, you know, they're like up above peering down. That's, I feel like what I get
Eva: my God. You are so sweet and so kind. Obviously. Okay. I could say so much more about you and how I think we're gonna like make magic here. But, um, let's stop complimenting ourselves and get into the questions. Um, so I think it's really important to see that projection is. [00:10:00] It's a really painful experience, really painful.
And it's the same thing that I feel about being judgmental of somebody. I don't know, I want people to just like notice, like every time you judge someone, the first person who actually suffers in that situation is yourself, is you, right? You can feel it. It doesn't feel, no part of judgment feels good and it can be kind of subtle.
But I think if we paid attention, we would notice that they're suffering there. And then, the person that you're judging may also suffer because it sucks for them to be judged or whatever. But like, energetically also, it just feels like, ugh, so sad. I don't, you know, would you agree? Like, I just don't like the way that it feels.
Kyley: yes. And, and I think, uh, I completely agree. And I also would add. It's really painful and it's protection.
Eva: Mm
Kyley: Right. Because I think projection and judgment are, um, they're, they can create this [00:11:00] weird spiky trap because we're casting out, but actually really casting in. And then when we try to unhook, we, it just can create like more judgment and projection.
And so it's almost like that, like barbed wire. That's like, the more you try to get it out, the more it
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: um, And I'm thinking about, we, uh, we talk about judgment kind of frequently in my house because my six year old is really sensitive as I've shared many times, and I can't tell if this is like an age thing or like a phase or if it's, um.
Uh, you know, a temperamental disposition or what, but he has a tendency to go very quickly to judgment sometimes, um, particularly when something makes him feel really upset in a, when he's, I watch, I watch how he gets sensitive and then will be like, oh, that thing is stupid or terrible or bad. But what he's very clearly responding to is, He just [00:12:00] feels wounded in some way, but he has a sensitive reaction and his sensitivity in that moment is feeling uncomfortable.
So he's pushing away from his sensitivity to cast out an external judgment. And I'm sharing the story because I think sometimes with kids, it's much cleaner and easier to see what the pattern is. Right. So I think we, I think often our projections and our judgments are this protection of this, of this like really kind of scared, sensitive part of ourselves.
And, and one of the things we've been talking about in our house a lot is just noticing the difference, right? I really, with Desi, I'm constantly trying to say like, you know, like, oh, that, that person shouldn't have done that. And I'll be like, okay, well, how did that make you feel? Then I'll say like, okay, that feeling is super valid, but that judgment, like, is it true?
Is it helping you, et cetera, et cetera. And so my follow up to your point about projection and judgment is, is, um, I think one of the ways we can begin to untangle it is just. [00:13:00] Really noticing the feeling or the sensitivity that cuts, it sneaks in before we get to projection and judgment.
Eva: Um, yeah, yeah, because we're doing so to your point where there's a reason that we do this, and I think this is going to get to what I'm speaking to about part two, just then like, okay, so it means that we probably need something, right? So how can we give ourselves what we need in order to not continue this painful behavior?
And I want to add, I think the reason that I'm pointing out that it's painful, you know, dear listener who asked this question, it's like, They know this, they're like, duh, okay, yeah, I already know this, but, but I think, I've heard Byron Katie say, you know, as someone who's considered an enlightened being, she's like, I'm not an enlightened person, I'm just someone who knows the difference between what's painful, what hurts, and what doesn't,
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: and I really think that part of our spiritual experience is To be so kind to ourselves and to love ourselves so much that we no longer want to, like, it's really clear to [00:14:00] us that like, oh, I want to choose behavior that's not painful.
And so, and I think pointing out the pain of this is important because my point is, again, is like, once we see something really clearly, like, for me, with judgment, I'm like, I've seen, I don't want to do this anymore, like, this fucking sucks. Like, when you really see something so clearly, and sometimes it takes us a while to.
We have to suffer a thousand times. I probably made, you know, two million judgments until the point where I got to like, this isn't fun. Like this isn't like, I don't, am I, am I still interested in this? I'm like, I don't think that I am. And so when we, there's a power to seeing something so clearly that you can make a choice, it actually makes it easier to make a choice to be like, okay, I want to do something different.
And I, and, and then let's get to like the, how do I do something different? Right. But another way that I think is. Helpful with, um, something that's like been so apparent to me is that when I am projecting things on [00:15:00] other people. Oh my God, man. I'm a, I'm a violent motherfucker. Like this is another Byron Katie thing.
You know, people listeners know that I'm, you know, a big fan is that, you know, people ask like, why is there a war in the world? And she's like, well, look at it in ourselves. Look at how violent we are too. And I've seen that it's been such like. beautiful heartbreak medicine when I see like with my parents, for example, people who really trigger me and I think they should be doing something different in my head.
I'm like, Oh, like you should be doing something differently. And it's the opposite of love. And again, it doesn't feel good. And so I can see this violence in how I'm with other people. And it's really violence towards myself. And it just breaks my heart open enough to be like, This isn't it. This is not fucking it.
And I don't wanna, I don't wanna do it like this anymore.[00:16:00]
Kyley: I'm thinking about how there's also, I think, two, I experience projection in two ways. Both of which are really violent, and there's a kind of projection that I do where, like, as this list, as this listener wrote in where they are projecting on to other people, their own behavior, and then they're mad about that behavior.
Eva: Mm, mm,
Kyley: There's another kind of projection that I am often guilty of. Which is that I project disappointment and judgment on to other people. So I will assume and cast this character. I will turn somebody that I love into a character and a story that is judging. And they're not,
Eva: Yes, yes, yes. Or, it's like, basically
Kyley: a need that I, that.
They might have, there might be something that they're like, they might have a need that has to be discussed, or they might be literally doing nothing. And I will, I will take my own self loathing, pass it on to them so that I can get mad at them for being mad at me. But they actually might not even be mad at me.
And it's all just me processing my own self loathing.[00:17:00]
Eva: Yes, oh my god. And I'm, and that's happened in our own relationship. It's the story of like, that so many people feel like, Are you mad at me? It's like a version of that. You know, like, And, And what I've seen is when I say that we've experienced that, you know, I've seen you be really hard on yourself and then assume that I'm upset with you when I'm like, maybe I don't like a situation, but I'm like, that doesn't at all change the way that I feel about you.
But what happens when you're. What I've heard you say happens in those moments is that there's a sense of separation, you know, and again, that's also painful. What's happening here is like all of this is just separation, separation, separation, which is not the truth of who and what we are.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. And, and both, I think it's also creating hierarchies, right? So if you're, if, if I, if, if I'm projecting that someone else is mad at me and judging me, then I'm putting myself below them. And if I'm projecting that they're doing dumb shit that I also [00:18:00] do, then I'm putting myself above them. And so either way, it's this like kind of twisted way that we, I think create hierarchies to your point separation and, and like, and, and, and separation that is.
A separation that is of like a valuing and a power dynamic thing that also feels gross.
Eva: I feel so gross. Feels so gross and yeah. Disconnected. So, um,
Kyley: So what do we do?
Eva: yeah. What do we do? Right? Okay. So, okay. And this is where I think I just know you're gonna have. So much wisdom because you're such a queen of compassion and love and being with our own shit, but I mean, I could just like start listing like a gazillion things off the top of my head.
One, it's like, um, once you've noticed, ask yourself, like, what is the trigger here? Right? Because essentially we're being triggered in some way. And as, as we know, a trigger, the noticing of a negative is the greatest positive. It's like, it's here [00:19:00] to show you something that I think and I believe once it arises and you see it clearly, it's ready to be released, right?
So, ask yourself. What is it that like is triggering me here and for this listener, I think like they seem like they have a lot of self awareness and so they're like, I mean, they even said it in the question, right? It's like things that other people, they're judging other people for what they're doing that she knows that she should be doing herself.
And so,
Kyley: Basically sounds like she's like deciding that other people are making, she's judging their quote unquote irresponsible money choices.
Eva: okay, got it. Yeah.
Kyley: Or, or like casting out that they're irresponsible and what I'm, what I'm hearing in the question is a couple of things. One is I'm hearing, she said, like in all capital letters, like I want to do some of these things, right?
So there's a desire. So you spoke about how projection indicates an unmet need. And I think that's really important. I would figure out what the unmet need is. And I think, or needs plural. And I think one thing that's going on here [00:20:00] is that there's desire, right? Whatever these people, the kind of freedom that she's watching these people employ with money.
However, quote, unquote, irresponsible it might be is a thing on some level that she wishes that she could give herself access for and wants and feels like she can't have either because the money isn't there or because she doesn't allow herself that or whatever, whatever,
Eva: Wait, okay. So I want to pause there because I think going back to the question, I'm reading the text. I think she's saying, I get honked off when people do something I would want to do differently.
Kyley: Oh, that's right. But in reality, it's the exact shit. I do myself
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: managing my money well. Okay, I do maintain that desire is a big part of this, right? Because some part of her wants to do something differently, but also some part of her is doing these things, right? So there's, there's some, so much of money is about desire.
Money is about a million things. But money is a lot about our, like, really twisted relationship with desire. And one of the big things that I'm hearing here is basically [00:21:00] disgust towards her own desire.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: Right? She wants, she wants, like, you know, she wants, I'm making this up. I don't know these details, but she wants a new fall outfit.
She spends 200 bucks on new clothes or 600 bucks or 50 bucks. The amount often doesn't actually matter in terms of the emotional thing. And, and so there were, there's a real want the want inspired the spending. And then there's like self loathing and judgment for having spent that. And then whatever's then, then that self loathing and judgment is too hot to even touch.
So we have to project it out and process it via somebody else.
Eva: Mm. Oh my god, I love this.
Kyley: so there's like, first of all, the first, most important thing is the thing this person has done, right. Which is like, see it then. So, and then there's a bunch of drops of compassion that have to happen. And one, I think. Is recognizing that whatever is in this loop, it's actually so painful that you can't look at it directly.
You're creating a system of mirrors because you can't, because it actually hurts to like [00:22:00] you. I'm thinking of when I was a kid, there was an eclipse and you know, you can, unlike, unlike the president,
Eva: Mm
Kyley: don't look at it, eclipse straight in the eyes. And so my uncle had his kids watch it in the hood of the car.
Eva: Oh, wow. Mm hmm. Yep. Yep.
Kyley: And so like, that's kind of what this person is doing, right? It hurts too much. Whatever the trigger is here to your point of like, there's real pain. So whatever the trigger is, it hurts so much that this person can't look right at it. And so they're using other people as the hood of the car so they can touch it without burning their eyeballs.
So again, we could judge the projection or we could be compassionate that. You're still just trying to like wrangle your arms around this really hot, painful thing. And this is the projection in the moment is the best available tool.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And so therefore, what happens if it feels really hot? And this is where like you and I, the work that we do [00:23:00] with people I think really comes in. It's like, okay, another, you know, I was saying I like popcorn, a bunch of things that could be helpful. But uh, it is like learning how to be with the discomfort and your emotions in a really loving, soft, gentle kind way.
Because for example, especially with money, let's just say, it's hard to look at the. The fact that when you're, you're judging someone other, someone else for their money stuff, but actually you're judging yourself. Like that's what's happening, right? Anything that we judge other people for or is we are judging ourselves.
And usually when we judge ourselves, we have two options. Like we can be a total asshole to ourselves and we feel a lot of shame and it's like shame and guilt and some story about how I suck. I'm not enough, like blah, blah, blah. So that's all what's happening. And then I think. skillful approach is to be like, wait a second, wait, wait, wait, wait, what do I need here?
And instead of being an asshole to yourself, it's like, do you know how to meet your shame? Do you know how to, uh, process [00:24:00] guilt? So that's, I think that's what I mean when I say, okay, well, what do we need here? And it's going to be different for every person, but in every combination, it's like self compassion, and a non judgment, and love, and emotional alchemy, and et cetera, et cetera.
But,
Kyley: I'm so glad also that you, everything you just said, I love. And I'm really glad you spoke to shame in particular, because I do think when something's too hot to touch, shame is almost always a part of it. I think it's the it's I've said this before, but I think it is the emotion that we are most prone to, like, squirm away from with at all at all costs.
And so if you feel really trapped in projection, it might be a helpful indicator that somewhere under all the layers is shame and to the point again of compassion. Shame is, you said, like, do you know how to sit with shame? And [00:25:00] one level of learning how to sit with shame is realizing how much perhaps you actually have no idea how to sit with shame.
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: Because one of the other things that I hear in this question, which I can understand, and also it's funny how much I just want to be like, I'm just like pouring compassion down on this question to the listener, but is how much I can, because they're suffering and pain, there's a desire to just like turn it off, right?
I can just feel this energy of like, yeah, Oh, if I could just turn this whole fucking thing off and, and I think what's in there is kind of disgust and shame around want and disgust and shame about like our own behaviors and a kind of. Confusion and overwhelm. It's like, if I could just shut it off, then it would go away, which, which often also shows up.
That's money is a really big place that we often have this, like, you know, flip a switch, shut it off. Like, Oh, I just wish, like, I just wish I could [00:26:00] like quit my job tomorrow or like win the lottery tomorrow. Or right. We often have these kind of like big hunger for some kind of seismic shift. For a lot of reasons, some of which are really fucking material and have to do with like housing and food, but also I think have to do with, you know, when we're when the roots are wrapped around something gnarly, like shame and self loathing.
It can feel almost impossible to go in and so shutting it all, like boarding up the house and setting it on fire feels much easier than, so if you are someone who, you know, might have, might be discovering that there's like shame, shame underneath all the things, but they also can see that maybe they don't have a lot of resources for sitting with shame, how would you encourage them to get support or how would you encourage them to go on that journey?
Eva: I mean, listen to the podcast, . Yeah,[00:27:00]
Kyley: Hi, you're one of us.
Eva: because I mean, this is so much of what we talk about. This is so to, to the dear listener again, I almost wanna say like, congratulations, because the fact, again, the noticing of a negative is the greatest positive. The fact that you notice this again, to me, is a sign that you, this is initiation.
Like you're ready, like you're ready to something. Differently. That feels more aligned. And so, and I think you're ready. I mean, you're this person's probably obviously already on the spiritual path, but we can always deepen that. And I think the spiritual path is how do we love what is, how do we be with ourselves unconditionally?
And that's like, when I say listen to the podcast, what I mean by that is that because it can be a beautiful, slow building over time of just recognizing again and again, where you are abandoning yourself. And then coming back again, again and, yeah. Yeah. And, and also, yes, you can take a class. I [00:28:00] mean, I have emotional alchemy, which is all about being with your emotions, and you don't, you are the queen of shame, you know, and releasing shame.
So, so I don't know. I mean
Kyley: Yes. I really love what you're saying. And I also think what I'm hearing and what you're saying is permission to be gentle and permission for the unfolding to be slow, which can be actually be really uncomfortable, right? So to see a pattern, and especially if we touch into a pattern that has really, really deep roots
Eva: mm-hmm.
Kyley: to give yourself permission for let it to be, but for letting. Unfold gently over time.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Right. And like, and, and, and sometimes the deepest we can go is, oh, my suffering here is caused by shame. Okay. I see that. And now I'm going to go disassociate on my phone for 45 minutes. And, and sometimes that's really care, right? Is that is, is, is [00:29:00] giving yourself. Permission to go all the way in when you are resourced to go all the way in or get support when you are like, ready?
Oh, my God. I'm just sometimes like, there's nothing better than being sick of your own shit and ripping the bandaid off.
Eva: for sure. . Yeah.
Kyley: and I also think that there's something that can be really tremendously potent about giving yourself permission for it to be a, when you see a pattern, especially when the pattern is, has deep roots to let it unfold gradually over time.
Eva: Yeah. And so that's why when you ask me like, what do we do? It's like, it. That's where my mind always goes. It's like, what do I do about this? Right? You know, I'm always asking this question and I think it's a valid question, but also I didn't actually feel like it was appropriate to be like, well, here's a course that you take and then like it's done.
You know, that's our mind being like, let me just get rid of fix this and get rid of this and whatever.
Kyley: the course is called alchemy
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. But it's also like, [00:30:00] I think there's something here about just setting the intention forth, you know, like I think by bringing it into the light, that is already the beginning of something and also trusting that it doesn't have to be an uphill slog. I don't, I actually don't, I think this can be the path of love and grace.
And it's like, if you're in bootcamp, maybe you're in just self love bootcamp, you know, it's not like I'm not in like, you know, how people so often. Refer to the spiritual journey of like it's this hard scary thing where I'm dying over and over again, which sometimes is true But also doesn't have to be
Kyley: and um, um, I love everything you're saying. And I think I, it is also in the spirit of paradox, right? It's like, let it be slow. And, um, I also think the fastest fix quote unquote, uh, It's dive all the way into the unmet need to like, get really clear on what the unmet need is. And, and, and in a funny, and the reason I said [00:31:00] paradox is because I think when we give ourselves permission for it to be a slow unfolding, then that's actually when we have the least resistance, right?
When we need to turn off the faucet as fast as possible, then. We, um, end up actually creating a lot of resistance and when we give ourselves permission for it to be on slow, slow unfolding, which is another way of saying, I am okay. And enough right here right now, even in my suffering, we reduce the resistance.
And so I think in this case, I would really encourage the listener to, um, spend some time on covering the need under the need under the need. Right. So, um, and, and, and what I would point to is something I already kind of. Laid out, which is the pattern that I hear really loudly is this loathing, um, of want, right?
And like, uh, uh, Oh, which is, oh, well, we just queued ourselves up for a great fucking transition.
Eva: Question number [00:32:00] two.
Kyley: Um, so I'll say something just briefly about this and then we can, but I think what I'm um.
When it comes to money is that we have this really distorted relationship with our own desire and our hunger and our wants and our needs. And, um, and then a lot of what I'm actually hearing kind of a subtext here is some disgust with want, which is really, really common. I think a lot of us carry disgust around want.
Um, and, and so when we have something as big as desire that we have this fucked up relationship with, which most of us do, we. end up rejecting it, loathing it, being disgusted by it, and then it ruptures back and is like, uh, hello, you can't fucking ignore me. And this will create, this can create like binge cycles, or this can create some kind of like, um, [00:33:00] hunger and want that gets so
Eva: I'm rebellion. Yeah, like the other loop that I see with money is like, oh, I can't send this money Okay, well then fuck that because I'm not free So I'm gonna go ahead and like and be quote unquote irresponsible and spend all the splurge and then you go back into the shame cycle
Kyley: Yes, right. And then the shame creates the control and the self rejection, but then that eventually ruptures and then we get back to rebellion and it creates this whole, whole cycle of suffering. And so
Eva: we're that we're trapped in. Yeah
Kyley: we're trapped in. And so I think the, you know, definitely there's an emotion of shame here that, that wants some witnessing.
And I think, and again, there's like self loathing and disgust and, Um, and, and I think that they are all specifically wrapped around desire and to the point of projection, they are getting projected onto money, which is a huge way that money, money is like the ultimate someone's like the ultimate projection.
Right. And so I think what's really important to recognize with any money suffering is that the [00:34:00] emotional loops are almost always. Projections, not always, but almost always projections the material suffering. If I don't have my needs met is not projection. Like that's fucking real. But our emotional loops and our patterns are very often us processing these like deeper things that probably this listener experiences in other ways around, um, Rejection and rupture of, of desire and want.
Um, and if we can integrate that we can create like a sense of wholeness and trust and safety with our wanting, then. The whole infrastructure falls away because you don't need to create the cycle anymore. Therefore you don't need to project shit onto other people anymore. Therefore, you don't need to feel ashamed of the cycle anymore.
Eva: And this is what I mean when I feel like I say to people like, things can drop off, you're just not participating anymore, so it's not, you're not efforting so much to make something different, it just, you don't, you no longer participate, and it's amazing, because then you're just like, [00:35:00] oh, like, this isn't a thing anymore,
Kyley: mm-hmm.
Eva: yeah, yeah.
Okay, I want to add though, because I think we're focusing a lot on shame, and everybody should know, Kylie has like, psychic abilities, she's called so many, so much of my, so many things in my life, so, I, I feel just really confident that Kylie can, you know, feel into these questions, but that there is, you know, part of this is the shame thing, but I also just want to offer you more universally.
Um, if we are feeling judgmental about someone or something, or we're projecting on someone else, and then, you know, the task is here, okay, wait, but what is it that I'm actually really, what's my trigger here? A really helpful question to ask yourself is like, also. What are you making this mean about you or what are you making this mean and so for someone it might be like, okay Yes, there's shame here.
But I could for me again. I I'll put it into my own Scenarios is [00:36:00] that oftentimes for me what comes up is I don't feel safe So when I'm projecting on someone else like again, I'll use my parents as an example the reason their behavior is pissing me off isn't because It has nothing to do with their behavior.
It's because, oh, I'm suddenly feeling triggered because I feel unsafe. And so in that situation, my need is more like, okay, how do I make myself feel safe? Right? So essentially, it's looking at how can you give yourself something that maybe the, the external thing cannot give you? Um,
Kyley: Oh, I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because also, , one of my, one of my, um, Shame is the thing that lives like 10, 000 leagues under the sea and I can, like, I can, I can, I, I can see the, I can, I can see the whole layer cake and I can, I can see and sense shame, uh, in some ways, cause yeah.
Um, and just because I can see it doesn't mean that. We can always feel it when we're in it, right? Even some, I was going [00:37:00] through something the other day and I was talking to Liz about it and I was intellectually knew that shame was sitting at the bottom and that wasn't what I felt. What I felt was, actually it was disgust, so to the point of this question.
So what I could feel, it started I started on the level of feeling anxious churn. And then when we talked, I dropped into a feeling of like what, what the emotion that rose up was kind of discussed. And intellectually, I knew that shame was at the bottom, but it wasn't available. So, um, so I really love you speaking to what's the need, what's the trip, what am I making it mean about myself?
Because that will point us to the available emotion. And then we'll just
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: walk, they'll walk us all the way down to the bottom.
Eva: know, I like taking things. You know, I'm making them practical for our listeners, and I just love giving like concrete examples, and we both have spoken to this on the show, but like, another way in which we project, and I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate, is when we project shit onto our partners.
And so... Like, you know, someone doesn't fucking wash the dishes or whatever, whatever, [00:38:00] whatever. It's like, what are you making that mean? And oftentimes it's like, oh wait, this person isn't listening. If they're not listening, it means they don't love me. You know, and some, just, just keep following the fucking trail, right?
Or, um, if as you were saying, like, If, or if, if my partner is constantly reminding me to do things, and you're fucking triggered, what is it that you're making it mean? Is it, well, this person doesn't trust me, this person doesn't think I'm responsible, like, blah, blah, blah. And you can just keep following, like, what is it that you're actually making it mean?
And you'll get to a point where, like, is this actually true? Like, you kind of have, like, the aha moment, and you either, like, have a conversation, or,
Kyley: Yeah, I really love what does this mean? What do I make this mean and then yeah, the question you always ask that I know is a Byron Katie question Which is is this true that that pairing feels? Oh really potent.
Eva: All right. Well, hopefully, hopefully this was helpful to your listener. Okay. Should we jump into our second question?
Kyley: do it. You want to read this one
Eva: Okay. Yes. Okay. So, oh, [00:39:00] I'm so excited about this question because this comes from a dear friend, actually a client, an old, an old client of mine who has become a dear friend as that tends to happen.
Um, and she has a question about desire, which I think is just so juicy. So, okay. She starts off by asking, as two spiritual women, what is your relationship with desire and how does it inform your lives? And then she expounded on that question by asking, do you feel like you're following your desires? Have you always done that? Is it just part of who you are or is that something you have come into? Um, do you trust that following your desires is the answer?
And, you know, with Judeo Christian culture and the patriarchy, following desires as a woman can feel like a very scary thing. You know, sometimes it means maybe embracing craziness and rage, which is pegged on females a lot. Um, and, you know, she's really speaking to how there's something here tied to femaleness and following desires that I think can be really tricky.
Kyley: fucking love this question
Eva: Ooh, it's a doozy, [00:40:00] man. It's a fuckin doozy. Um, could I pass the baton to you?
Kyley: Sure. Oh, I mean this question is so layered. I'm kind of having trying to think through how I would even answer this Um, I think I want to start with one of her first questions, which is as to spiritual women, do I think I follow my desire? I think I want to speak to my own kind of brief history. Um, I think one of the most clarifying things for me has been realizing what is, what is my desire and what is.
X what is me acting according to expectation so that I think I can get what I want, right? There's this thing that we can do where it's like, and I was really guilty of this for a long time and have been unlearning it for quite some time. But like, if I'm a good student and I get good grades and my teachers like me and my boss is like me and I work really hard, then I can have what I want.
And in that case, what I want is like respect and to feel like enough. And, um, [00:41:00] and so for a long time, I was really trapped in the cycle of proving and earning. And it. Distorted my desire because then I thought I wanted things like a particular kind of busyness or, um, uh, you know, more and more work or whatever, whatever the case might be with that.
Um, because I was trying to get to the, I was trying to get to this other thing, which was ultimately, I think, feeling like I was enough. and so, so to me, part of, and so that, that part is true. And then at the exact same time, I think I have always been someone who's. Like known her desire and I am inherently somewhat of a risk taker.
And so there's been a bunch of times in my life where I've done. Uh, I've done the bold thing because my want was so fucking apparent. Like I went, I, you know, I had a pretty good job and I [00:42:00] went back to grad school because I wanted to be a professor. And, you know, I, I left after a master's cause it was, you know, that was the right choice at the time, but, uh, starting my business is the same thing.
Like there's, there's moments where. My desire is so loud and that, uh, that even when I didn't have as, I think, integrated a relationship to it as I have now, um, yeah, I would like, I would do the bold thing because I would hear this part of me who was like. Restless and hungry and. Um, and I think to the point of gender, I think a big part of that actually is because my mom is a tremendous model of that.
So my mom was born when I was born when she was 19. And I think I've shared before and she, um. Obviously didn't have a college degree. She went back to college when my brother and I were little. She now has two master's degrees. She's an ELL director and [00:43:00] owns a yoga studio. She moved us to Maine when we were, when I was in high school and my brother was in middle school because she knew she, she knew that she, and by extension, our family like needed to not be living where we were living.
Like she is someone who, you know, has. Other people have totally projected onto her before, like that she is impulsive and irresponsible and also she's built this incredible life that's really beautiful and takes and, and, um, and, and came, she came from real suffering to build this. And, and I've watched how she has chosen, I've, I've watched how she's centered her desire and it's taken care of all of us.
And so my mom, to the point of patriarchy, I have this really great model of a woman who's willing to be hungry and. And, and I'm, and I, other women in my life have done similar things. Like I have an aunt who is like, has always been really willing to just be fucking loud. And the light liner family is like, we're [00:44:00] Kennedy's we're bossy bitches, you know?
And so, so I have had that as an answer to some of the patriarchal shit. Um, and even with all of that, it's complicated. That's my first pass of an answer.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, shout out to your mom. It's just so amazing. I didn't know that she had two degrees. I mean, amazing. Okay. Yes. So I love everything that you're saying. Yeah. And I think, so I will follow suit by just talking about my relationship with Desire. Um, I'm going to just. Basically say the same thing that you did, which is when she asked this question of like, do you, are you someone who just always follows your desires?
And I was like, yeah, I am, except, except I think my desire, my desires sometimes misguided. So that's speaking to what you're saying. It's like, I think I follow my desires, but the problem isn't the following. It's the fact that our desires are misguided. And oftentimes the quote unquote work is to figure out what do I even really want?
What do [00:45:00] I want? Because It's like my heart and my soul's truth versus what I want because of social expectations and because I think it's going to give me safety and blah, blah, blah. So I think part of it is just being able, like, this is, this is a lifetime of work. Like, this is an ongoing thing. So, dear listener, I say that to say like, oh, if you don't know what you want, like that's not a personal problem.
That's, that's what we're here to figure out. Like this is, I think that's what this life is about. It's the adventure of continuously recalibrating and figuring out what we want, because God knows I wanted 50, 000 different things, which is why my life is always going. In these really kind of, I think, amazing different directions.
So, I think a lot of times we judge ourselves for not knowing what we want, but I'm like, No, I think that's just the, your spirit came here to, your soul came here in this lifetime to try and experience, [00:46:00] like, the adventure of figuring it out.
Kyley: Oh, I love that. I love the permission in that. I think I'm also thinking about how sometimes it's really confusing because. We, we are never just one being, we're always multiple parts and therefore different parts of us want different things, right? So in any given moment, this is actually like a huge part of motherhood for me, right?
So everything I just said about desire also like immediately question if I get really, I'm really, it's, it's motherhood is a place for me where desire is really confusing, right? Cause even though I just talked about how great my mom is as a model of a hungry woman. Motherhood is the place where I'm most anxious and afraid of being selfish and, and having too big a desire.
Um, which is interesting. I've never put that side by side. Um, but. Like in motherhood up, well, there's one part of me that wants to be absolutely everything and anything that my kids could [00:47:00] ever want. Right. So like last night, I'll give it, I'll give a tangible example. Last night, Brittany was taking a bath and she really wanted me to like, play with her in the bathroom.
She's got like her little toys lined up and she wants me to like, be like sitting there and watching her and talking to her. And there's things that are fun as a parent and there's things that aren't. And every parent has different, like Nick and I have wildly different things we enjoy. Listeners, that is not fun for
Eva: Uh huh.
Kyley: I don't, I don't want to pretend to be a unicorn figurine. I just, I'm, I'm immediately
Eva: Right, right, right.
Kyley: and at the time I was like having this really juicy conversation. My, uh, messaging app with a friend of mine and I wanted to have that conversation, right? And so I was watching how I was just watching it and I was watching how I wanted to go in the other room and have this conversation and then birdie would call and I like.
Also wanted to be with her and I wanted to have the like sweet intimate moment of being with my kid. I wanted her to [00:48:00] feel really fulfilled and I wanted to have this really interesting, challenging adult conversation and I wanted them all at the same fucking time. And so I think that that's one of the reasons why desire is confusing is because there's like in that story, there's three different wants.
One is my genuine want to have fun moments with my daughter. One is a genuine want to have interesting, challenging adult conversations, and one is societal projections and my cat, my, my idea of what I want as a mother, which includes sacrificing and always putting my kids first. And all three of those were colliding at the exact same time while she was in the bath.
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: And that to me, I think, and I think that is actually like our ongoing experience with desire all of the time. Um, is this casting of external projections. That we have internalized and think we might think our desires and then genuine desires, but genuine desires [00:49:00] seem to conflict with each other. And then we're holding the whole soup pop feeling like I don't know what I want, or we pick one of the things and we cling to it super, super tightly.
And then that can also create a distortion.
Eva: hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So just, okay. So I want to like speak to that. And I think this all kind of ties together. I think we're just talking about like the complicated nature of desire first. So we're just sort of like laying out the, like, you know, laying out the land. Is that the thing? Getting a lay of the land of like what, what the issue is here.
And I also just want to add to the fact that having different desires at the same time is definitely one thing that's very confusing. And I think for me, you know, we talked about how desire is, I think, tricky. With women and the patriarchy, but I think it's also tricky in the spiritual world. And that's where it's become complicated and confused for me because of my years of meditation practice and like Buddhism and this idea of like sitting on the [00:50:00] mat and noticing that suffering comes from either avoid aversion or Attachment there somewhere along the lines.
I got this message. I think a conflated distorted message that desire was bad because desire caused suffering. Do you know what I mean? Or like as a spiritual person, I shouldn't have these huge desires or somehow that like, if I have these desires, yeah, there's some, something in my brain just like got confused and was like, Oh, the, uh, the wanting is what causes suffering.
And I'm like, no, no. And I have to like, and I'm still constantly undoing. No, the wanting isn't what causes suffering. It's like fierce attachment, believing that like my safety and my happiness is dependent on this thing.
Kyley: Oh, I'm so glad you said that because I also think there's whole, I actually think there's rich and beautiful spiritual traditions that are about. Non attachment to our desires. Like what is it to be a monk? Right. But to shave your head and separate yourself from the, you know, material pleasures of the world and eat really simple foods and wear all the same [00:51:00] clothes.
Like that is actually, I think a really can be really gorgeous and has a long history of being a really powerful way of people to experience like spiritual depths and union and. And in all sorts of religions, there's this, there's a path, the ascetic path of, you know, non attachment to, and in some ways, rejection of wanting. And I don't think that's wrong, but I'm not interested in that.
Eva: Right. Yes. Yeah.
Kyley: So,
Eva: And that's great. I think that's fucking, that's what I'm saying. It's so cool when someone can be like, that's beautiful and I'm not interested. You know, that, that in a way is also just acknowledging what your desire is and what it isn't and not following into should or shouldn'ts because someone might hear that who was maybe not as.
Grounded in their own self and spiritual practice and be like, oh wait, but I should, I feel guilty and I should, that's the direction I should be going in.
Kyley: cause we think maybe like, maybe that would get me what I want. And maybe it does, right? [00:52:00] Again, like, this is why I think it's really important to the, I'm glad, so glad you brought up this kind of spiritually conflicted relationship with desire, because I do think it can be a really beautiful path. And if you feel drawn to it, then honor that.
And also. I'm a hungry motherfucker.
Eva: Oh my god, Kylie, preach girl, say it loud and clear. Like I think, okay, so, so that I think is a beautiful segue into the, what do we do about it piece, because what I just witnessed you do. Is to own yourself and accept yourself completely unapologetically without shame. And I think desire. Okay, so shame is rearing its ugly head again.
Surprise, surprise. Shame's like, okay, well, shame is at the root of so
Kyley: rides into the fucking sidecar with me at this point. And it's like, Oh, do I get a moment? Am I the portal to unconditional love? Hi.
Eva: And, and to me, I just want to clarify though, as actually I'm sure so many of our listeners already know that to [00:53:00] me, the answer to shame. Or what I, I think what the work that I that feels very important to me because I have walked myself through this process and also I'm currently continuously walking myself through this is, um, undoing my story of badness, the trance of badness, because that's what shame is.
And so another plug for another program, but like loving ourselves into power, this like self love course that, you know, I ran last year with Federico and we'll be running again next year. Um, Is that so much of that course is about looking at the illusion about that. Like we're living through the lens that we're bad and that if you feel bad, like you are bad or you're a piece of shit or whatever, then, then you experience shame.
And so if you experience shame and badness, you're going to have a really hard time with desire because essentially what you're saying is I don't. Deserve to have what I want. I am, [00:54:00] who am I to have what I want? Like a disgust essentially with yourself. Oh my God. All the fucking like privilege comparison.
Like, I'm so privileged, like , that, that whole story
Kyley: I be satisfied with
Eva: oh yeah. Is Oh my, yes. Oh my God. The ways that we make our, our desires small. I could like even just saying these things out loud, I can just feel, it's like a sickness. Like I can feel the toxicity in my body. What? And. I'm not immune to these stories like at all, you know, you know, Kylie knows probably better than anyone when I message her and I'm like, I feel bad for this thing.
Um, and I think all of that is really rooted in. It comes in the story of shame and badness and not being deserving, but also that, and also as our speak, as our listener pointed out, it's like the patriarchy and colonialism.
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think, um, I think I also want to [00:55:00] acknowledge that if we're not, if, if. If we allow it, I think desire, like anything, is an infinite teacher, meaning there's no place that we arrive where we have integrated our desire fully. Um. There's actually a way that I think one of the gifts of our desire is that we are always hungry.
You wake up the next day and you're like, cool. What am I eating now? Right. There's a way that, um, and there's a delicious paradoxical way that accepting our desire is actually also accepting. The moment before fulfillment. So one of the things that can happen with desires that we rejected, which we've been speaking about, but then the other thing we can do, which I, this is, this is where I am especially guilty is I can like wrap my claws around it and just grip it.
Right. Like I want a business. And [00:56:00] so I, like, I'm just gonna hold it as tight as I fucking can and just look at it all the time and twist it.
Eva: yeah, yeah.
Kyley: Right. And not only does that create a tremendous amount of suffering, it also suffocates the very thing that you're trying to create. Right. And so there's something really exquisite that can come in the practice of recognizing that part of the ecstasy of desire is anticipation.
Eva: Oh, oh, yeah.
Kyley: Right. So it's like, Oh, like, like, Oh, I want this thing. I can feel how hungry and excited I am for this thing. And now I get to. I have to wait and I get to wait and there's, we can think about this with sex. We can think about this when like someone's cooking a delicious meal and you can smell it and you're hungry.
Like there's all these different ways that anticipation when we're not. Desperately clawing at it [00:57:00] and when we trust, right? When the food is, you can smell the food, you know, you're going to get fed.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And so then there's this, like, there's this own kind of ecstasy in the, in the buildup
Eva: In the wanting, there's a, there's a joy in the wanting for sure. There's joy.
Kyley: so much joy in the
Eva: Yeah, there is. Yeah.
Kyley: Um, and so that's, that has been, that's been a big part for me is like getting into a place of trust and softening my grip. So it's like, I trust the desire. I trust that it's safe, that I'm allowed it. I trust that I trust it's inevitable fulfillment.
Um, and so then I like let go of it. And then the wanting, it just feels really delicious and fun instead of death grip suffocation,
Eva: Yeah. Okay. Oh, I love this so much. Okay. And so I kind of want to move to speaking towards, and just encouragement about following our desires because I know this listener and, um, know, it's, it's, it's just a, for me, like a big opportunity [00:58:00] to be like, I can, you're following like follow your desires. Do you know what I mean?
Um, but I think the, the nature of this question is like, I can hear it, you know, in, in the sentences, like, is it safe to do that? Like, how, how do you do that? Like, um, you know, is this something that comes naturally to you? And I think the answer, I think, is simple in that I don't want to get into too much of black and white, but just for the sake of being, I think, bold, I want to say. think you don't really have an option. I think you either live a life of following your desires, or you get sick. That's honestly what I think. I think you, you, cause essentially what, following your desire means you be, you are true to yourself.
You are living in integrity, you are living an honest life, and you are being a full person [00:59:00] who follows your heart. Right, so first the step is like, get clear on what your desire is, which is already no easy task, and it's a lifetime of work, whatever. But it can be a beautiful journey. But then also, then you follow your desires because you, that's, it's either that, or what, you get sick, and what I mean by getting sick is that can look a lot of different ways, but, you know, in the case of like, I'll say my mother, who was truly like repressed in all these ways, became, I think, you know, mentally, all, a lot of like mental instability came from that, you know, you either, or you get, fall into addiction, or your body starts to fall apart because you're just holding on to years of resentment, or, Uh, you are so suppressed that you don't have authentic connections with people and then you, you know, are really lonely like it's all these really toxic ways that that being inauthentic and untrue manifests in our lives and the problem with a lot of people and I can See some of y'all out there is that y'all have a really high, high tight, like tolerance for pain.[01:00:00]
People have a very high tolerance for pain and I don't really know what else to say about that, but it's true. This idea of like, I'm just women. That's what it's, women have a really high tolerance for pain. That actually feels really true, because we just fucking hold on and hold on and hold on so I'm the good girl, I can do things right, so I'm not outcasted, so I'm not a, so I'm not burned at the stake, you know, this is like generations and generations of shit, of how it doesn't feel safe for us to follow our desires, and I think that's the thing that I want people to watch out for, is that some of y'all women out there have a really high tolerance for pain, and that concerns me, because um, You'll just keep holding on until, you know, the sickness might not, you know, manifest automatically.
Um,
Kyley: or you'll just be, you'll just be quote unquote, strong enough to keep
Eva: keep holding on, yeah.
Kyley: in your sickness and in your suffering.
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: Oh, Eva, Eva Liao. We have been recording this [01:01:00] podcast now for four years, and that might be the wisest thing that it might be the like mic droppiest of mic drop moment. You either follow your desire or you get sick and some of y'all have too fucking high tolerance for pain.
Oh, if you guys could've seen me, I had my eyes closed. It was just like I could've just laid on the floor. You gutted me like a fish. When you said that thing about too, too high tolerance of paint, I literally like felt all of my like crew and ancestors and like Gods just lead in and they're like, yes.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Are you listening?
Eva: And I think that used to be me too, just why I can speak to that. I'm like, and that doesn't feel true anymore. I don't know why. Not that I don't have a high tolerance. I mean, like, it's again, it's kind of going back to the first question where I was like, I think being like an, Like, I'm dedicated to peace, and so, therefore, I have, I can clearly choose what hurts and what doesn't, like, [01:02:00] I want to move to what doesn't hurt.
Yeah,
Kyley: I, I think also what I'm feeling specifically when you were speaking that I was thinking about childbirth. And I was thinking about like, yeah, like it's an initiation that fucking hurts and I mean like pregnancy through childbirth and my whole point that I said about like motherhood being the place of the most, the least clear place when it comes to desire for me.
And, and I can feel how motherhood is also the place where I have. I have the highest, I have the highest threshold for pain because at the end of the day, there's nothing I wouldn't do for my kids, right? I think there's literally nothing that I wouldn't do for them. And like, including throwing myself in front of a bus, right?
Like there's, there is no, there is no point at which I would not take on pain for them. And the constant question in motherhood is like, what is the pain that is actually theirs? And what is the pain that is like, [01:03:00] what, what is the, what is the bus that I throw myself in front of because it saves them? And then what is the pain that's like theirs to experience because they're live, they chose to live in this world.
Right. And who am I to rob that from them? Right. Um, and, uh, yeah. And so recognizing I, yeah, I have a tremendous capacity for pain. When it comes to my willingness to sacrifice for my kids. And so suffering is probably not like, like the early indicator light. Like I got, I got to look for other indicator lights because
Eva: yeah, well, I think, yeah, I think what you're speaking to, which I'm, like, really noticing, is, like, what's hitting me, is, like, oh, like, yeah, no fucking, like, yes, we all know that motherhood is complicated, but also, like, this is partly why, because there's nothing that a mother wouldn't do, right, and so, therefore, that tolerance is so high.
Right. That it can be really hard to acknowledge or give yourself a mother can be really hard for a mother to claim and [01:04:00] acknowledge and give themselves space for desire.
Kyley: Yeah. And know like, and just know in the mundane date, in the mundane minutiae of your life, when is the place that, um, that your, your whole self, yeah, your desire gets to sit in the center. So. Ooh. Thank you for that.
Eva: Wait, can I say one more thing about the tolerance for pain though? And so I think now I'm thinking back, like, why did I say that? Part of the reason I said that also is because it's like, oftentimes something that changes us is suffering. So it's like that. Like, rock bottom moment or you're just so fucking sick of it and you're in so much suffering and you're just like, I see it clearly, I can't do it anymore.
And then that's the catalyst for being like, fuck it, I'm just gonna follow my heart and do what I, you know, do what's true for me. But if we have a really high pain, like tolerance for pain, it's gonna be harder to get there, so I don't know, I don't know the answer to that, I'm [01:05:00] curious, like, what do you think? I don't know if we can answer that on this episode.
Kyley: Well, I, this is a great segue to the one other thing I wanted to say about desire, which is that you are terrified of the things that you want and you want things that you are terrified of,
Eva: Oh my god, I'm laughing at how true this is. Yes.
Kyley: you know, like. Like, we crave freedom, and if we get really, if we drop down deep enough, we can feel how much we are deathly fucking afraid of. The extent of the freedom that we want, right? We want, we talked about this the other up on the other episode about unconditional love. Like we want just like turn the faucet on, let the love come in.
And also we're afraid that we might drown in it. And, and so that's 1 thing. I think it's actually really important to recognize that. We are, we are, we are inherently afraid of our desires. That's, that's actually, I think in the like pain and pleasure mixture. I actually think that's part [01:06:00] of the ecstasy of desire is the way in which it's this knife edge of, I am afraid of this thing, even as I really, really want it.
So, so that's one thing to notice.
Eva: Wait, sorry, hold on to your next thought. I don't want you to lose it. But I just want to speak to that also. This pain pleasure thing. It's also this aliveness, because what's scary about why we are afraid of the thing that we want is because we're vulnerable. And because we're like, we might not get it, we might fail, we might lose something.
But also, I want to spin it as like, vulnerability isn't... Bad. If we can spin our just relationship with this, that's also where we are alive. It's where we are the most fucking alive. So I think we can just change how we relate to these things about the desire, you know, that the vulnerability isn't bad, and also what you're saying, like the, the, the joy and the, we can
Kyley: Yeah, like there's, there's like, there's, there's ecstasy when like friction and right there, pleasure pain combo is a good fucking combo. Right. So recognize that you [01:07:00] are inherently afraid of your desire. And that's actually part of the pleasure of it. Right. Is, is, is, is, I think, I think about it as the knife's edge of desire.
Right. And part of our, yeah. Assignment if we want to keep choosing desire is actually just to keep falling on the sword of desire. I think part of the problem is that we ask our, we, we, we expect or ask desire to only be pleasure, right to right, to basically have, okay, I'm listening to my desire when it's like totally pleasurable and there's no resistance and there's no like, There's no knife edge mixed in here and I think that's a false understanding of desire.
I think desire always, it always brings us to the edge, right? That's the nature of it.
Eva: So good.
Kyley: can recognize that and like wrap it all in, then you basically become less afraid because you can see that. Part of the fucking dance is that you're like, who is, you go to like, put in your resignation. Cause you're going to go like live on a farm in like [01:08:00] Peru.
Who's not a little fucking afraid. Right. And that's part, like, how would, how could you, how could you choose to rob yourself of the fear that is in that moment? That is also the pleasure and the excitement and the aliveness. Right. So you are, you are terrified of the things that you want and that gets to actually be part of the pleasure. And you want things that you're terrified of,
Eva: yes. Yes.
Kyley: if you're terrified of self rejection, you are, you are so hungry for it, right? If you're like number one fear is someone who's been working through an abandonment wound for a second. If your number one fear is abandonment, guess what you crave.
The experience of being alone, of being abandoned, of creating that thing because you know it, right? So
Eva: Okay. I was thinking about it differently because I feel like what's true for me is I've seen time and time again that the thing that I'm most afraid of is also the thing [01:09:00] that I want.
Kyley: yes, yes, that is 100 percent true, but the inverse is also true to the point of like, we have multiple parts who want different things, right? So there's a part of me who wants unconditional love, and there's a part of me that's like, Oh no, I want to keep feeling how much I am a piece of and I'm gonna just keep like Just like an addict, like hoovering that up and the nice edge, that pleasure pain combo is actually the both are true at the same time.
So you fall on the sword of your desire and it hurts so good. Because of these, because these two things are true at the same time.
Eva: Oh my god, fuck yes, dude. Oh, this is so good.
Kyley: This is literally the whole fucking workshop more, so come to this fucking workshop.
Eva: Okay, listener, if you're listening also, maybe this, I actually was thinking about Like, this listener, as you were talking about, more, like, it just makes sense. Anyway, so, whew, that was a journey. [01:10:00] Um, do you think we answered the question?
Kyley: I mean, I think we could do an entire season on this question. I think we could do 800 episodes on this. And... I think we gave it a pretty good, a pretty good first at bat.
Eva: okay, well, okay, so wait, okay, we'll like tie, we'll close this with one more thing about desire, though, is to say, oh, okay, so yes, there is this like pleasure pain thing, and that to let the pain be there too, but I also think there's If the, if you do, so you follow your desire and it feels so terribly scary and you were talking about how part of the, part of the excitement is the fear, but if it's so overwhelming that it prevents you from taking any action at all, I do think that there is, that's where like, I don't know, like spiritual.
That's where I think there's some stuff that can be helpful, which is learning how to skillfully with your fear so that it doesn't stop you. Yeah, you are smirking. Why are you, [01:11:00] why are you smirking? I can see it.
Kyley: your point, which is like, yeah, this, like, you can see everything we just laid out and therefore it could just be completely fucking overwhelming to your system. And I'm smirking because. I don't, I don't have a word for this, although I'm literally in the process of naming this because it is a practice that I, it's a practice that I've been doing for a while.
And I recently forced it on Liz and she was like, what the fuck, this is terrible and great. And, uh, And it, it, there is a way that I, okay, people talk about manifestation and like get in the vibration of the thing that you want and imagine the thing that you want. And we talked about this a little bit, a couple episodes about joy, but I think there is a practice I experienced.
There's this really potent somatic practice where you can basically invite in the energy of the thing you want. And sit on the knife edge of it, [01:12:00] meaning we create confusion in our system when we, I think actually create dissociative imagining where we're like, Oh, and I have a hundred thousand dollars and everything's easy and I feel so great and blah, blah, blah.
And that can be a great, like, it can be a good practice, but it's it ignores the whole part of you. Who's also addicted to your suffering. And so if you, if you, if you. Come tomorrow. I'll make you do this. You sit in the, you sit on what I call a nice edge of desire. Meaning you sit in the place where there's pleasure and pain at the same time.
And you just let it, you just let it live in your body for a minute
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: pulling yourself. Because the other thing that we do is that we pull ourselves into
Eva: Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. It's like welcoming it in. You're just like, let me just actually experience it and see that it's not going to fucking kill me.
Kyley: yes. And, and it is particularly like sitting in the plane, pain, pleasure combo that we. I think integrate duality of our relationship to our hunger [01:13:00] and, and, and start to make safety in, uh, in the allowing of the very thing that we hunger for and are terrified of.
Eva: Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. To all of that. And also I think the piece that you mentioned that I think is worth diving in on is the safety piece because What I want to offer to this listener and anyone else who relates to this question is like, okay, yeah, I get it. I want to, I want to go for my, this person obviously wants to go for their desires, otherwise they wouldn't be asking this question, right?
And I want to, but it's scary. And often times it's scary because of all the things that we've already spoken to, you know? But therefore it doesn't feel safe. And so I think what I want to emphasize is, do what you need to do to provide safety. Like, so that you can kind of like walk through it. And also, you may have more to say about this, but also, The last thing that I want to add is I'm, [01:14:00] I think there was a partner question. It was like, yeah, can I trust this? And I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah. That's the wonderful thing is that you follow your desire enough times. And to, I want to actually, I want to think about this, see if it's true. I guess what I was going to say is I've had enough experience to be like, Oh, I follow my desire and it was, and it was great.
Or it turned and I was safe and, and I do trust, but I can also hear the listener. Who's like, well, no, I follow my desire one time. And, and. It was a traumatic experience. So I don't know. What do you think about that?
Kyley: Okay. Can we do an entire episode on desire and trust, please? Because there's so much there. I actually want to say something. I want to reverse a moment and talk about, um, you know, how can I be some essentially in some part of this question is how can I be someone who follows her desire?
And 1 of the things I actually want to offer is to give yourself more credit than you are, because I think some, a lot of people who have a hard time trusting and following their desire also have a tendency to be hard on themselves. [01:15:00] Um, and. of the ways that we can start, one of the ways that we can tell ourselves that we're good at some, one of the ways we can get good at something is to tell ourselves we're good at it.
Right. So like with my kids, for example, if there's a behavior that I want them to do more of, uh, like, you know, trying to get my kids to clean up their plates after dinner. Right. And so I will point out with great applause every time they remember. And I just ask them kindly when they forget, right?
Versus, Oh my God, you never put your plates away. Right.
Eva: So pod is a reinforcement.
Kyley: right. And so I would invite you, if you are someone who thinks that you have a complicated relationship with desire or difficult relationship to desire is basically just rewind the tape on, on moments and ways that you have given yourself credit that you give yourself credit for ways that you already do or already have honored your desire.
And they can be, they don't, they can be really small things. Like it doesn't have to be [01:16:00] about, we tend to think about trusting our desire in these. Big picture ways, or maybe I do because I'm a big picture person, but, but I think that there's something really profound about, I was hungry and I told my friend that I need to stop and get a snack on our walk
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: and that, that, because it's the little things that build the big things, right?
And so if we're talking about trust, think about how you build any trusting relationship, it's not the big dramatic events. It's the like, kind of daily weaving of safety that create. An ability for us to trust the big dramatic events. Right. Or the big dramatic leaps off the cliff. And so I would say both notice and seed permission for, Oh, you know, for context, even just pause the show.
Cause you had to go to the bathroom. Right? Like it's a great small [01:17:00] example of, Oh, I have a need it's valid. I'm even going to interrupt some shit because my need is important. And, and I think all of those little things are how we build up the muscle and the trust. To be in a healthy relationship with our desire, and then it just gets to grow organically and kind of take up more, it starts to be more and more in our center.
Eva: Mm hmm. Oh, I think that's actually so beautiful. And yeah, a really practical, again, like, actionable thing to do. Yeah. I love that. So, okay. So that's like a good takeaway. And I think one other thing I would add is... A question that came to me while we were on this bathroom break was I was like speaking to okay, how sort of like rounding this all up together is that, um, if we feel like we're bad, if there's a story of badness, which is inherent in so many of us, not inherent, but it gets indoctrinated into so many of us, um, then we [01:18:00] feel shame.
And then if we feel shame for not, it's going to be really hard for us to have our desires. So a question that I would for you to get clear on what your desire actually is or how to move forward is what would you do? You knew that you are inherently good. Like if you moved through the world, remembering that you are a child of God and of nature and of source, you knew your fucking goodness, that you are love that you couldn't.
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you couldn't, that you're not bad. What would you do? And this is a, a question that I used to always ask my clients is like, what would you do if you weren't afraid? What would you do if you didn't have fear? Which I think can be a really helpful clarifying question. But I think in this situation, it's not just like, which is true, like if you have a desire and you're like, well, what would I do if I didn't feel afraid that that could be helpful.
But another question is that I think speaks to more like, yeah, how we get in our own ways. Like, what would you do if you remembered your goodness?
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: Yeah. And [01:19:00] I think that actually really speaks to even your Well, this is because I know a lot about goodness and badness and shame. You know, shame is also like up there for me in terms of like, anyway, all the things.
But for, for example, if we were going to take this to the bathroom situation, you being a mom and wanting to spend time with birdie, but also be with your friend, it's like in that moment, yeah, maybe you can't do it all. But what would you do if you didn't, you have a story of badness? What if God came in and was like, sucked out the story from your consciousness of the fact that good and bad even existed?
Kyley: hmm. Hmm.
Eva: who, it's essentially again, Byron Katie, like, who are you without your story?
Kyley: Oh, I love this. And you know, it's an interesting layer is that, cause that is actually what happened, but it was part of what was cool was that I could just see all the, it's like, I could see all the pieces on the board. Right. And I wasn't having a, like, I wasn't having a badness, not enough response. I was just seeing all the pieces.
And so what happened is that I just saw the pieces, right? [01:20:00] So there was no, there was no rush to fix. It was, Oh, how fascinating that this is the dynamic for me.
Eva: Mm
Kyley: I'm going to talk to my friend and I'm going to check in on Birdie and I'm going to, I'm going to just see that there's actually some conflicting desire here and that's the landscape and And when I didn't have badness, then I didn't have to fix anything.
And so I could actually just be in the kind of, um, muddiness of wanting multiple things at the same time.
Eva: hmm. Okay. Sorry. I just had a very strong visceral reaction because I could see how this could all play out. Like the possibilities of what happens when we don't have a story of badness, which is like, so what you experienced and I don't know, I just had this vision come in of like, this is how I see it working.
Cause it has worked for me is that we drop any story of badness or any story at all. And it's actually like, then. It's [01:21:00] all good. Like you're just, I could see you in that moment of like flowing to the bathroom and then being on the floor and actually just enjoying yourself and being happy because you're like, Oh, I have a beautiful kid in the tub and also I have this friend that I can talk to.
Like there's no conflict. It's like all good. There's no conflict. There's no figuring out. There's nothing to fucking figure out. You're just like, okay, this is existing and this is also existing. And I don't know if that was exactly your experience, but that's what I've experienced time and time again is like, there's no problem when I'm not in a story of badness.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting too, cause even there was some tension, like Birdie was like, mama, mama, mama, mama.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: My friend was like, it's hilarious. Isn't your dog in the background? And then she was like, you're doing the thing where you get distracted and you forget to come back.
Eva: Oh, my God. Oh, birdie.
Kyley: be like, Oh, I'm going to go get you water. And then my ADD kicks over and I'm in the kitchen, like frigging making pancakes or whatever. And, and so there was like, there was some guilt [01:22:00] that was like, Oh, she wants something from me and I don't necessarily want to give it. And that's confusing, but because the guilt didn't go all the way down in that moment too, and therefore I am bad.
I got to just watch like, Oh, this is a complex. This is a complex web that exists and is, um, yeah. And to the pleasure pain thing, I think if we're like really in it, which I was hovering on, I would, but like, we're really in it. There's also this own kind of deliciousness in the, like, how complicated that all of these things exist at the same time.
One time I was sitting on my couch, kind of in meditation, thinking like, like more, prayerful meditation, I'm like. I don't understand how all these things happen at the same time. I want so many things and how do they all happen at the same time? And the answer from like my, you know, spirit crew was they don't.
That's the whole point. Like we are here in this finite experience. [01:23:00] Like, like, this is the point of like our hunger. Like we are, we are voraciously hungry and our hunger actually always expands the bounds of what we can possibly experience and create, because there's a part of us that just wants to touch every blade of grass.
Right? There's a part of us that wants to experience everything in the entirety of humanity. There's a part of me that wants to be entirely immersed in motherhood all the time. And there's another part of me that wants to build an empire that like, you know, changes the whole world. And also there'll
Eva: they're all, and they're, and they're conflict. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah. Can I just speak to my own conflict, which is like, yeah, I see, I think everybody experiences this, which is like, I want a, there's a part of me and this is like in my astrological chart that it wants like a very dynamic, out of the box sort of just like wildlife and.
Yeah. Just something I don't even have words for, something that feels unimaginable to me. And then I also just want to be a homebody, and like, I never want to leave my house. And I just, I would be totally happy having a very set [01:24:00] routine and a schedule where nothing ever changes. And I just want, and I'm like, how do I have both things that seem completely at odds with each other?
Right. Um, and so, so yeah, so yes to that. But can I also add though, that. Like, so yes, I think that's true, and now I'm gonna like, we don't have enough time in this episode to like, even really get in there, so this is just
Kyley: I knew this one. I knew we've already it's been like an hour. We're still like haven't even skimmed the
Eva: I know, yeah. It's like, yes to everything you're saying, 100%, and also, is there a way in which we can go even deeper where it's like, when you were talking about, just using this whole hypothetical kind of example, I guess it's real and also hypothetical of you in that moment as a mother, needing to tend to birdie in the bath, wanting to talk to your friend, and you were saying like, there was guilt there.
I almost feel like there's another Deeper version of this where it could also be like your soul is like, oh, ha ha like this hurt Kylie thinks that she needs to get her kid a glass of water She thinks that that's the thing that she needs to be doing and also haha She thinks that she needs to [01:25:00] be like answering her friend I don't know I feel like there's this this way in which it's like None of its because you mentioned guilt and that was a thing that was striking to me It was like there's also a way in which fucking matter.
Like, it doesn't matter. There's no right or wrong or what you do. It's like, there's a, I don't know. I don't know. I just had this vision of like there could also be a way when you're like Oh yeah, I don't feel guilty, it's just, she wants water, and that's it, and I don't want to give it to her, like, right now, in this moment, and there's
Kyley: yeah. I mean, the whole what's interesting is what we're what we're what we're touching on here is also that in this story birdie has her own desires. Right. And so Because what's interesting is when you said like, oh, you know, like birdie wants you to play with her and not like, you don't want to basically the guilt came in because birdie had a desire, which was like, mom, come play with me.
And I didn't have matching desire. I didn't actually want to do that. And so the guilt for me is my kid [01:26:00] wanted something and I didn't want to give it. And, and so this, I think is, but what feels interesting. So it feels, I like what you're saying of like, they don't, it's like delicious way in which nothing matters.
Eva: Like, they just all exist, like, it's like, oh yeah, she has a desire, and that doesn't, that's it, she wants to play, and there doesn't have to be meaning in that.
Kyley: yes, I can hear you. My body is immediately like, yes, but no,
Eva: Right, right, of course, of course, because what I'm speaking to is like,
Kyley: But I, it did feel, but I like what you're speaking to of. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's, this is like, needs to just be a whole series. Cause I also think there's something fascinating here about, uh, getting, basically getting into right relationship with our own desire and trusting it and then letting that crash into everybody else's desire.
Right. And figuring, cause that, that's really the moment with birdie was like, I was like, so there was no shame, but there was guilt because I was [01:27:00] really unsure about how I manage her desire. Which is valid with my own and motherhood's especially complicated about it for all the reasons we talked about before and also because some of your job as a mother is just to like meet your kids, right?
Validating birdie's desire to play with her is an important part of like creating for her the rich emotional landscape that I want. And self sacrifice doesn't serve any of us. So, um,
Eva: Uh, see, in a, yeah, in a lot of cases, I would be like, I would take the Kylie motto and be like, what's good for you is what's good for everybody else, which I think is so true. But I think motherhood is one of those places where it's really particularly complicated. And so that's why I'm like, listening to my friend, Tom, who's like, if you want to be enlightened, go become a, go get married and have kids.
I'm like, Oh, yep. I see this now because it's like where it is just the most
Kyley: right.
Eva: like messy, not meshed and complicated, especially because like
Kyley: I don't want to put. Yeah, because I don't want to put my kids to bed. Right. [01:28:00] Sometimes I want to just like sit on the couch and read a fucking book or watch a TV show. And they're four, like she's four. She needs someone to bed.
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: Right. Sometimes I, last night Desi got scared and I like. I didn't want, my cousin was visiting.
I didn't want to go back upstairs and tuck him back in and do the whole thing. Like I wanted him to have the safety. And so I did that, but, but my loudest desire was like, Oh, I want to sit on the couch.
Eva: Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so we are coming to an end. Um, so I feel like we have to start wrapping it up. But I just want to say, dear listener, dear, like, long, long time client of mine, I love you so fucking much, and you know this, and thank you for this question.
Kyley: love you.
Eva: also loves you, she mentioned that before many times.
And, um... I don't know, this was, thank you to the both of you who, you know, sent us these questions, I think you really started us off on like a great [01:29:00] path, this was,
Kyley: we, we, I was laughing. Cause we picked four questions that we thought we might be able to answer in one episode. Ha ha jokes on us. We got through two.
Eva: yeah, well it's because the questions that were sent, I felt like, they were really good, yeah. So, um, if you enjoyed this and, uh, have some questions that you would like us to ponder on, you know, like I said, hit us up in all the ways, Instagram, email, whatever.
Kyley: Yeah, we can't wait to answer your next questions.
Eva: Yes. And, and let us know if you're happy with us using your name or if you
Kyley: Well, right. Or give yourself a fun pseudonym.
Eva: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Okay.
Kyley: Eva, speaking of questions, what is bringing you joy right now?
Eva: Okay, so I'm going to say a bunch of nebulous, maybe mysterious things that are all kind of closely tied together.
And I feel like what's bringing me joy is my relationship with my mind, which feels amazing to say.
Kyley: [01:30:00] so much.
Eva: Yeah, it's weird that I can say that.
Kyley: It's cool. No, it is exceptional that you can say that.
Eva: is
Kyley: Actually,
Eva: I can say that.
Kyley: I'm laughing because it's totally interrupting your joy.
Eva: No, please, please, please.
Kyley: But I'm laughing because, first of all, it's just a hilarious statement, right? It just, like, speaks to the delightful, bizarre world we have created in our show. And... It kind of makes me feel teared up because that is such a painful thing for so many of us.
To have a, like, to have a joyful relationship with your mind,
Eva: Yeah,
Kyley: that's the most fucking complicated thing there is.
Eva: know girl. I mean, it's no small feat and I'm kind of just dropping it here in at the end and maybe again, that could be a whole episode but like,
Kyley: we
Eva: what I
Kyley: just make
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: new business slogan? Eva Liao, joyful, come have a joyful relationship with your mind. Okay, we can make fewer words, but
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's basically, yeah, that is the whole game. And I [01:31:00] think what's actually bringing me even more joy than that is that I can say that publicly out loud and claim it without feeling what I would have, like, not without feeling Like an imposter or mostly what I would used to do when I was afraid like when I would claim something is I'd be like, Oh, no, I shouldn't say that because it's gonna go away.
I would get like superstitious. It was really weird I'd be like, oh, I'm getting too big for my britches or Who do I think I am or or like God's gonna come down and smite me somehow. I don't know I don't all these weird ass Beliefs about why it was not safe to just claim something and who cares if it goes away tomorrow like me saying it It's nothing that makes it go away, you know, and you've pointed this out to me.
I think just like there's been some more Claiming in my life, which feels really good. And so, but that's also because of my relationship with my mind. And again, I recognize that that's no small feat. And I think that's just because of, um, the journey that I've been on from the summer and also on a more practical note.
Um. [01:32:00] Eliza and I and her daughter went to go get pedicures yesterday, which was also just so nice. It was Eliza's birthday, and we just had like a nice little girl's day, and I'm not like a big pedicure person, but it's like nice to treat yourself every once in a while, and oh my god, and then we sang together, Eliza and I, like after dinner, and I was like, holy shit, singing together as women, like impromptu.
I was like, oh, I, uh, need so much more of this in my life. It was so healing, and I was like, why haven't we been doing this the whole time? So. Yeah. I'm like, how can we incorporate singing? Okay. Anyway, mental note. Um,
Kyley: That is one fun thing about kids is that
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: I sing at them sometimes they're on board and sometimes they're like mom, which is really it's own fun
Eva: Yeah. And also they'll love that and, you know, have the memories of that when they get older. Oh,
Kyley: Oh yeah.
Eva: um,
Kyley: mom doesn't give you some shit to be like, Oh, I remember she would do that.
Eva: yes, exactly. Exactly. And singing is so healing. So anyway, [01:33:00] what about you, Kylie? What's bringing you joy?
Kyley: work.
Eva: Oh yes. Clean
Kyley: Talk about like unapologetically claiming something see all of my comments about motherhood for the past hour. I Fucking love what I do
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Fucking love what I do and I'm I'm getting ready for a launch of another round of alchemy secrets out and I spent all day yesterday Writing. And it just, it's like this feeling, this culmination of all of this work I've been doing about like permission for my own hunger and ambition and ability to like settle in and drop in and create.
And so maybe HD meds helping at being pals and my kids being in school and not feeling guilty about asking my husband for help, even, [01:34:00] you know, which he's tremendous. Let the record show like does, you know, my guilt has to do with not him. Um, and. Oh my god. It was like, I could just cry for what a great fucking day it was.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Just like, had my big headphones on, uninterrupted for hours. That's what it was with my husband. I asked for extra things. That's what it was. It was like, I was like, I, like, I, to the point of desire, I want to spend hours at the coffee shop, uninterrupted, without a deadline looming to pick up the kids. Can you do that?
And of course he was happy to, but what felt... Special was that I didn't feel bad about asking
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: do those things all the time, but I always feel like a kind of penance has to be served. Just totally my own bullshit. But I didn't, I just was like, I, I see that I want to make all day. Not even because like, I'm going to make and then I'm going to get what I want, but just like, I love what I do.
I have shit to [01:35:00] say and I want to say it. And I just, yeah, put on my noise canceling headphones and sat outside of my coffee shop and just get ready for my emails. But if you are not on my, even if you're not even going to take Alchemy, sign up for the
Eva: Wait, okay, hold on. Now, we got to explain like a quick explanation about what alchemy is, but not all our
Kyley: Oh, oh, that's fair. Alchemy is, Alchemy is, uh, the tagline of Alchemy is liberate money. So it is the program of deep subconscious somatic release rewrite inside out transformation about you and your relationship to having, allowing, receiving. It's about money and it's about every relationship in your entire fucking life. Uh, the secret is that it's a, it's a spiritual revolution and,
Eva: Through money, which I love because,
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: we said
Kyley: the thing that seems like the ickiest, right. Or potentially, um, I feel kind of teared up talking [01:36:00] about it and I've taught it a couple of times and this is like, this is like, just like a big moment in it and in its life and, um, and I've spoken to you before, like it's born out of me and through me and, uh, and it just.
It just felt so good to just like be in reverence and honor to this thing that I love, which is the program, which is my work, which is my ability to be a creator and, um, yeah, I just fucking love what I
Eva: I
Kyley: and I feel really, really happy to do it.
Eva: mean, I can feel, I mean, I know that to be true and I can feel and I can sense it and I just love it. I love it for you and I love, I know what it is, you know, to feel so connected to. I don't know, sometimes it, you know, it's work, but it feels like a calling, you know, that just feels, and also, [01:37:00] just want to speak to the fact that like, I love that you're following, I know that you're, I love your ambition, and I don't ever want you to make that small, not that I think you ever do, but it's always just so nice to be.
In the space of that, because I'm like, I don't know, just, I love it. I think it's beautiful. And I love that about you.
Kyley: Thank you. It's I think, um, you said it, you said like that you don't think I make my ambitions small and I immediately was like, Oh yeah, no, it's even bigger.
Eva: Oh, well, that's true. That's probably true. Like it could, yeah, I could see ways in which it could, but big in ways that I think are like magnificent, you know,
Kyley: Yeah, and like much to the point of, like, Much to the point of asking my husband for things that he's totally fucking on board to do and feeling guilty. I think I've been in a chapter for a while of acknowledging, like, I am hungry and ambitious, but I have had, like, guilt or penance around it. And I think I am, like, I can feel the kind of edifice crumbling that's like, Oh no, I'm just big and hungry and ambitious.
Eva: Yeah. Oh, I want to [01:38:00] do a whole episode on ambition, like women and ambition.
Kyley: Oh, yes. Yeah. This is, this is the desire season. Oh my God. I want to, I want to immediately start recording on
Eva: this is the desire season because I think we even talked about. So the first episode of this, the season folks was about joy, which is obviously related. And I think you should go back to listen to that. And I think I've you, I think you get, I don't know if I said this or you said this, but like, for me, I think the season is about claiming my desires.
Kyley: Oh yeah, I did say that to
Eva: Yeah. Which I think is true in my life, in my life in which things are happening guys. Big changes are coming, and once I figure out how to talk about them, I would love to share them with everybody.
Kyley: you. I love the teasing.
Eva: Yeah, yeah,
Kyley: Because teasing, as we all know, is a great part of desire. We want to be teased. We want to be teased by the universe.
Eva: love it. Thank you for being here with my teasing. Okay, folks, we love you. If you like the show, you know what to do. Hopefully, the [01:39:00] reviews are so helpful. Honestly, the subscriptions are so helpful. Sharing it with a friend is so super helpful. We
Kyley: Send us your questions. We can't wait to answer more of them. We love you.