Kyley’s business/chaos partner, Liz Simpson, joins the show to discuss money, the body, surrender, and changing the world.
Kyley’s business/chaos partner, Liz Simpson, joins the show to discuss money, the body, surrender and changing the world.
Alchemy- https://portal.ravenandmerope.com/alchemy
RESET- https://www.evaliao.com/reset
Liz - IG @ravenseyehealing | ravenseyehealing.com
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Hi, it's Kyley.
Eva: And it's Eva.
Kyley: Welcome back to Hello Universe. I am beside myself with Glee because I have my two favorite humans in the entire world, uh, sitting in front of me on Zoom.
Uh, Obviously Eva, uh, Liz Simpson, we are gonna go down a whole rabbit hole of God knows what, but somehow also related to money in a moment. Uh, but before we do that, uh, Eva, you have something super juicy going on, so you wanna share.
Eva: Yeah, so this coming Sunday folks, reset is [00:01:00] happening. Reset is my first ever one day meditation retreat that's happening online. Um, created this because this is what I always want and this is what I always need. Like my life has just been going through transition and I've been really busy, you know, settling into a new city, which has been all wonderful.
I just know when I get really busy and I'm in that space, I can feel my energy going in different directions and I'm just not as focused. I'm not as present. And anytime I'm in that space, I'm like, I just would really love a day to be by myself and be still, and essentially reset my system. Like that's what I'm looking for and that's what I'm always trying to cultivate in my life because I think I'm very impressionable and I pick up a lot on a lot of like stimuli and people stuff, which makes me lose my center of gravity.
Um, and I think so much of like the work that I do requires me to be really in my own energy and in my own lane. So anytime other people have facilitated this space for me of like, Reset space. I'm like, yes, thank you so much. The [00:02:00] past teachers who have given me that gift, so I wanna be able to share that with other people too.
Just a day of observed silence, mostly. Um, no cell phones, no technology, no family, no friends. Just you and your own energy so that you can hear and experience yourself clearly. I think it's gonna be a really beautiful day. So if you are interested in joining me for this reset, for this meditation, you can DM me and look at my website and find me on Instagram. Yay.
Kyley: Oh God, it sounds so beautiful. Um, So the other big thing that I have cooking is, as you might have heard, is Alchemy, which is super bananas amazing, uh, money program. And I run it with Liz Simpson. Uh, welcome back for the third time. Uh, my
Eva: that's a good [00:03:00] sign. We only have real special people back for the, for the third time. I think you're our first.
Kyley: Yes,
Eva: Okay. Yeah,
Kyley: Yeah. You were a little sad that you weren't the first person to be back twice, but you are the first person to be back three times.
Liz: Great job you have, you have redeemed yourselves. We are now back on track. I appreciate it.
Kyley: uh, so anyone who doesn't know, uh, Liz is the person that I host Monster School retreats with. Run Magic Circle with. We did villain era together. So basically if I'm not creating a project with Eva, I'm creating it with Liz. Um, Liz, we'll, we'll kick you off with our official question that we ask everybody when they first come on the show. Uh,
Eva: glasses. She's ready.
Kyley: she's ready. Um, what is something that life is teaching you right now?
Liz: I knew you had a standard question and right as I was logging on I was like, uh oh. I should think about the standard question, but I didn't remember what it was. Um, I think this is both new and not new at all is. [00:04:00] Reminder of how my body communicates. So this is an ongoing thing, right? This isn't new really, but I'm just hearing on different on, I'm just hearing differently lately.
So I'm super grateful for that. E almost everything that Kylie and I talk about or teach on ends up being in this like spiral, right? You're, you're circling back and you're getting deeper and you're circling back and you're getting deeper. And I feel like I am in a, um, uh, a window of, in that cycle where it's like, oh yeah.
Again and deeper. And I love when that happens because so frequently Kylie and I will be like, okay, we've said this before, but now it's new. And that's how this feels also, right? Yeah. I'm like, this is, this is not new at all. Right? I do somatic coaching, like this is my jam and [00:05:00] also it's fresh and reignited,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Liz: I'm jazzed about that.
Eva: I mean, I, I just wanna say to that, I, I mean I love that reminder cause I think sometimes people feel like you're supposed to learn and be done with it. But the truth is, is I think you just learn it more deeply or you experience the nuances it of it more deeply. And, um, yeah, I know I say that to people who are like, oh, it's, it's this again, which I've had that story too, but it's like, oh no, but it's, it's this.
But the depths to which we can understand this, even something like, especially like something like the, the body or money liberation, like there's no end to it. It's literally bottom list. So that's why you can continue to go on and on and thank God, or else life would be boring.
Liz: Yeah, and that is also, I feel like that adds in the rich pot of soup where you can be thoroughly frustrated that you're back in the same thing, right? You can be not jazzed to once again be like, oh, I'm still [00:06:00] traumatized by this, this event, or whatever, right? You don't have to be pumped about it while at the same time you're experiencing deeper levels of liberation or clarity or whatever.
Eva: Yeah. I wanna give a, sorry, a quick plug. Also, that last time you were on the show, we talked about the body, it was called, it's called the Body Episode. Folks, if you have not listened to that, I highly recommend you go back. It was, I thought, one of my favorite conversations, a really beautiful dive into the magic of the body.
So,
Liz: I'm pretty sure we all got high at the end of that one. Wasn't that, wasn't that at the end of that one where we were all like feeling into something and then we're all like, woo, wasn't that that episode? I dunno, I've been on so many times, you know that it's hard to keep, keep track of them,
Kyley: also conversations in which we accidentally get ourselves high on magic are also so common that, uh, I do think, I do think that Wes, how that episode ended. I, I also wanna offer like of course [00:07:00] your swimming deeper in the. Wisdom of your body communicating, um, potentially in uncomfortable ways because also we're launching alchemy.
And Alchemy is a money course above the body, right? So, uh, I think this is the conversation I have with clients all the time too. It's like, you know, someone will be in the middle of a launch and they'll be like, oh, I'm supposed to be teaching like confidence and why am I so insecure? And it's like, cuz you're teaching confidence so you're like literally being initiated deeper into the very space that you hold.
Um, cuz there's nowhere else to go, as you said, Eva, other than just like, you just keep going deeper in and deeper in and deeper in. So, um, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for listening to the BOD for US Pal.
Eva: Well, I
Liz: I mean, the gift is that I don't have a choice,
Kyley: Yeah.
Liz: So,
Eva: That's true too. That is true. Well, that's not true. You have the choice to avoid and ignore and pretend like this is just, you know, not, [00:08:00] you could say, you know, not take the hint or listen to the messages.
Liz: Hmm.
Eva: That is true. Um, okay. I think
Kyley: Actually, can I add, add some of that because I, I do think, so before we hit record, you were sharing about some, uh, migraines you've had this week. And I think that one of the things you do really beau like migraine is a migraine is loud enough that you can't ignore it, right? Like it's, it demands attention.
And I think one of the things that you do so beautifully is, uh, like meet that as wisdom, even with, without making it, without asking yourself to like that you have a fucking migraine, you meet the migraine at some kind of wisdom. And I think we can often feel like our option is to rail against the thing and be pissed about it and like, what do I need to do to fix this?
And why won't this go away? Or, um, pretend that we like it. And I think that you do this re you, you hold this really beautiful space of like, oh no, this is [00:09:00] excruciating. And also like, there's wisdom or nourishment here in this experience. And I can, I can be present with it without pretending that I like it.
And that's, um, that's something, that's a gift that takes care of me many times, so.
Liz: mm Thank you. I appreciate you reflecting that. That is a, it has been a long path to be at the place where that is my, my genuine, authentic experience and not just something that I feel like should be the case. I appreciate that reflection.
Kyley: Yeah. No problem.
Eva: that's beautiful. Um, I mean, I wanted to like sort of jump in on this topic of going in deeper. I think money is one of those places that has no end. And um, yeah, it's interesting. Hmm. You can be someone who's like done a lot of work on, I know, work on money [00:10:00] and I think what you guys are sharing takes people even deeper than that.
You know, it's not just like the surfaced, it's like, it's not even about money, that's the thing. Right. So I kind of wanna open up that conversation.
Liz: Oh, what a great, what a great intro. Have you been reading all the Alchemy copy, because you nailed it.
Eva: I mean, yeah, basically. And I, you know, talked to Kylie and, you know, follow you guys on the gram so,
Liz: That is our, that is what makes speaking about alchemy both complicated and also really fun, is that it's ostensibly about money, but money is just a monstrously powerful teacher and a doorway to look at so many other things that are hungry to be witnessed and seen and that you are hungry to experience.
So it's, it's a, it's beautiful as a, as a topic and as a teacher because everybody has an experience with it, right? If you are existing in society, money is [00:11:00] foundational to the way that you move through the world. And so it is both very, uh, visceral for people and also immensely triggering. And it's, and the way that we speak about it, the way that we're like, oh, haha, it's not about money.
And people are like, you could just fuck off cuz I have to pay my bills. Right? So it's, it makes for this, uh, Deliciously, um, swirly experience of, yeah, huge portal, huge teacher, and nobody comes to it neutrally. Maybe not nobody. There are probably some people who it's like actually neutral experience, but largely everyone comes to money with some sort of spice, right?
There are peppers implanted throughout. Maybe you have a ton of peppers, maybe you only have a couple. But everyone has some sort of experience where they can get into the juice via money. And I think that's why Kylie and I are jazzed about it because there is a wealth. [00:12:00] Oh, there is such depth in the experience of what we can have a 10 minute conversation with someone and be like, oh yes, there's so many great places to go here.
And I love that component of it. And then of course, we were joking last week. We're in the middle of this launch and we're like, why did we pick fucking money as like the hardest, deepest, it's so entrenched for people. There's so much about it. We're like, great, we just picked on this little topic to get into.
So on the one hand, it not being little makes it powerful and so juicy. And then on the other hand, it's like, I don't know, could we have picked something like simple
Eva: Yeah.
Liz: to invite people into?
Kyley: Well, and I think, I think one of the things about money, I've been thinking a lot about money lately as symptom, right? Um, and meaning that it is often playing out something that lives much deeper. And I don't say that to discredit, right? [00:13:00] Like, I have a symptom right now of plantar fasciitis that I've had for 10 months.
It fucking hurts every morning when I wake up and I limp, right? Like, uh, so it is not, or your migraines might be symptomatic of something deeper that doesn't make the tremendous discomfort of the symptom less so when I speak to many a symptom, it's not a, um, it's not to diminish the very real suffering that we have around money.
Um, and also it is, Calling, it's, it's, it's calling us to something deeper, right? Like, my foot is calling to my hip and my low back and my pelvic floor, right? Like, there's this way that um, there's this way that we have these, uh, deep parts of ourselves that are wrapped around the story of money. And the pressure to either be fine or scramble and fix doesn't actually allow us to go deep enough to tend to the root, right?
[00:14:00] So where most of the advice that you get is like, be grateful, be high vibe, like get into the right money mindset. Well, that doesn't give you any fucking space to dive into what, like, you know, tender places might be lurking beneath money. And then the other alternative is like, budget better, work harder, like control your actions.
Um, and that also doesn't make space for the way in which like, your current experiences with money might be. You know, anywhere from tremendously painful to mildly uncomfortable. But, but that means its fucking moment.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: I mean, it's almost like a missed opportunity when people aren't able to like, I'm like, you guys are missing out on like the, you're getting to the dirt and play around. Like that's where all the worms and all the composts, like, that's where the good stuff is. And both of those things that you talked about, Kylie, like they're not long-term solutions, you know?
They're not, it don't, it doesn't, they, they, they're great for the short term and. It [00:15:00] might give you the illusion of relieving some kind of stress, but if you're not getting underneath it and understanding where all of this like struggle and resistance and shame, whatever it is that you have around money, then it's just gonna come back and I think you guys are offering something else.
It's like, no, like let's really like, like cultivate, like develop a whole new relationship with ourselves and also then thus money. So yeah, it's like a missed opportunity. Right. I think we talk about this a lot on the podcast. It's like where, where the suffering is is like the greatest opportunity for change
Kyley: And I think yes. And the stakes with money are so fucking high, right? Because it's like the suffering is, is very emotional, but it's also very material, right? The suffering is like, can I pay my credit card bill this month? Right.
Eva: Survival. It is
Kyley: suffer. Yes, exactly. The suffer the suffering is also our survival.
And so it's often, so there's two things [00:16:00] happening at the same time. One, whatever is lurking underneath might be so, um, uh, dangerous feeling that it might not feel safe to go in by yourself. Right. And, and often it's not right often, especially when it's, when it's like kind of really deeply about shame or, or deep anxiety about our survival.
Like you need a pal to go into that cave. Right? Um, and then also the. Volume of like can't stop to look at the emotions, can't stop to go in because I need to keep scrambling for survival is also so loud, right? So there's the like daily present need to like, to tread water, uh, in order to survive. And then at the same time there's the real anxious fear of what might be underneath the water, right?
Like one of the clients who just signed up for was like, I had this dream that I was swimming and then I was drowning. And I was like, yeah, cuz you're literally coming into a container around like diving into your subconscious and your [00:17:00] somatic experience around money, which is where your whole money story is written and where um, your, your entire experience with money can be rewritten.
And I just wanna offer, like you said, it's a missed opportunity and I think that's true, but I also think, I don't know anywhere where we're held safely to do this kind of work.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And it's probably not comfortable to do on your own. Um, and so yes, it's a missed opportunity and yes, I believe it's the only space things actually change.
And also how the fuck are you gonna figure out how to do it on your own? No one, no one is making space for it.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, if you're in survival mode or if this is about your survival, there's, it's really hard to try and I, it's almost, I would feel, I don't wanna say it's impossible, but yeah, I guess what you're saying, the stakes feel too high to fuck around on your own. You're like, I can't just like go and play in this area that I might go and play in other areas of my life.
Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Liz: when you have no model to look at, especially [00:18:00] when the only things you've ever been taught or the only things that you are offered as a way to deal with it, are falling back into those same two things that Kylie described. Like it isn't even, I, I a hundred percent agree. It's like, I can't do this by myself or, or this is way too scary to do.
There's the stakes are too high. But even if, even if you're willing to take that risk where the, where the, where do you go?
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Liz: With what are you reshaping things, right? Okay, yes, I'm gonna go play in the dirt. What the hell does that mean? How do I even go about doing that? I think this is one of the, I mean, Kylie and I always think that we're special, no question there,
Eva: I love this because you are, and I think everyone should feel that way about, yeah.
Liz: you. But also I think what we're offering here is truly unique. The space that Kylie described of like, there's nowhere else to be held in this way. Agree. I think we hold space differently, but further what we're teaching [00:19:00] here is just not available. It's just not, it isn't like this is common knowledge and you just have to like jump in and do it, right?
Nobody talks about this this way. Nobody engages with money in this way. Um, that feels, um, That's why we are so jazzed about it is because this isn't something that we feel, oh, you can get this else. We may not be the right coaches for you. You can get this elsewhere or whatever. Like, we may not be the right coaches for you, but also, I don't think this is happening elsewhere.
I don't think this is a thing that you can just roll through and Instagram's gonna pop somebody else in front of you who's, who's looking in the same way.
Eva: Hmm. All right. I mean, so like, I wanna get into it. Y'all, I'm gonna put both of you in the hot seat.
Kyley: Love it. Love
Liz: Welcome to a daily conversation between Kylie and I. That's perfect.
Eva: Okay. I think I have, I have two questions are kind of the same. I'll you, this can be like a choose your own [00:20:00] adventure. You guys can choose whichever one you wanna go down. I think my question is like, okay, so like what money stories are you? Like, what are your money stories, you know, and let's. Give people an idea of, um, where you have experienced this own, you know, own your own fuckery around money.
And the second question was maybe if not, what was your story? But like, if we talk about a launch being an initiation, that means both of y'all must be learning something about money. And I'd be curious to know what those lessons and initiations are. And it's a juicy question because it means if you're in the middle of the launch, it's alive for you, you know?
Kyley: Mm-hmm. Who's going first?
Liz: Yeah, you, I'm going here we
Kyley: great. Love it.
Liz: I feel like your question is the same thing. It's like choose your own adventure. It's the same question really. And it's very easy to point back to migraine as being like the fresh teacher on this front for me. [00:21:00] Um, I'm always hesitant to like fully ascribe story because there is space for it to be more and deeper into other things.
And I don't want to like lock it down as this is the one lesson and the only way that it goes. But yesterday I was doing my conventional job, and this week was bouncing back and forth between coaching with Kylie and my conventional job. And it takes no real leap for me to see how much my story about money is that I have to sacrifice in order to get my needs taken care of and get my needs met.
And yesterday was a prime example, right? I I made it through the day barely, but why was I trying to make it through the day? Oh, because I have to pay my bills. Oh. Because this is where I have like, really consistent, trustworthy income, and that comes at the price of, it's not good for my body. [00:22:00] It's not good for my spirit.
I feel like I have to lock away who I am, right? I'm not showing up there and talking about, um, Creating and, and magic and all the ways that are, so, I mean, in small conversations perhaps, but like generally speaking, I'm showing up as a very normal human as much as I can. And, um, and what's the, the, there's a very direct path to, I have to show up as less than myself in suffering, in actual sacrifice in order to have my needs met, be able to be confident that I can pay my bills, whatever, um, whatever the, the chain reaction of that is.
So, you know, when we're talking about migraine has been extra loud and has a lesson to teach, I have at the same time actively called in that I want to close the door on this source of income. I have actively called in that I want to [00:23:00] end that relationship and move on into a different place. And this has been an ongoing.
Again, the like spiral cycle of noticing, oh, that popped up again. Oh, here it is. In this way. Here's another way that I think I have to strap on sacrifice in order to have my needs met. And so days like yesterday where migraine is almost impossible to ignore because it is so very loud, um, it's, it's also then very loud of you continue to believe that sacrifice is required for to survive, just to survive in general.
And on the one hand, I don't believe that's true. And also it's clearly woven into, you know, the fabric of my experience.
Kyley: And I will like also speak to the, we have these stor, we have these beliefs, we have these stories woven through our subconscious, our body, um, because we think they are [00:24:00] required to create safety, right? So it's like, like there are, like Liz is not the only one with the story that sacrifice is required in order to have my needs met, right?
We're all walking. I mean, this is one, if anyone calls me on Instagram for Easter, I was just like a, you know, posting constantly about alchemy because I actually think there's a tremendous link between this idea of, you know, dying for our sins as valuable and sacrificing for our needs as our continued model of, you know, existence.
And, and I think what is complicated is this moment where we start to witness the story. then also, like as you were speaking, Liz, I could just like feel in my, like this, like all throughout my chest. This like aliveness and also this tingling of like, yeah, but what happens if we let go? Like, right, like, like the danger of letting go of that story, right?
And the, and the body's response, it's like, yeah, this story might suck. And also it is the only thing keeping us alive. So like, fuck off trying to get rid of this [00:25:00] sacrifice story. Um, and, and I think that that is, and, and so that's also, and I don't, I'm not skipping your question. I will come back to it, Eva, but I think that's also, that's part of what we're wanna walk through in alchemy is like, understand what your stories are and then watch the way your body is like, like has its claws perhaps into those beliefs for certain, for safety, right?
And how do we like, like actually breathe space and safety into letting go of these things that actually are keeping us sick and miserable and, and suffering. Um, I also lost, I got a little short of breath as I was saying all that.
Liz: This week in particular, I have noticed how much my, I like hold or lock my diaphragm. I just keep, keep noticing like, oh, drop the diaphragm. Oh, take a breath. Right. Have really been aware of that this week in particular. So of course when speaking [00:26:00] to this, that came forward for you cuz that has been particularly loud.
I've actually been doing it multiple times in this conversation.
Kyley: yeah, yeah. I wa I watched my brain being like, wait, when do we take a breath? I'm confused.
Um, and I think that's also like, you know, Alyssa was saying, we do something different. I think that's part of it, right? Is like, how often are we able to actually observe the minutiae of our body's reaction to our, to, to like the play between our stories and our body and our beliefs and our body and the way that they are, like voling back and forth.
Um, Anyway. Um, my answer to your question, um,
it's not dissimilar from Liz's. Um, perhaps unsurprisingly, I think that I am watching a story about needs being met and what I am defining as needs to be enough versus like a limping, right? We all heard that. I talked about limping in the morning and [00:27:00] now I'm talking about limping again. Yeah. We all know.
We all know. Um, but, uh, watching how I have had a very long and old story that, um, what I want is too much and that if I need something, I need to make it less, right? So, um, you know, I might want a hundred percent so I can, so 80% is acceptable. And I've watched this play out in a million different ways throughout my life.
Um, and, um, And it's been something I've been walking through and I've shared on the podcast about like making more space for the balance between motherhood and, and, and my business and the space to be creative. Right? It's, it's the, it's the same thread of like, can I, can I exist as I am and get everything that I want and need?
Or do I have to settle for less and do I have to make my hungers and needs smaller and more palatable in order for it to be comfortable for them to be met?
Eva: That's interesting. Can I just [00:28:00] interject and say, uh, It's interesting that your story is like, I have to make myself smaller or less, which I think I completely do and think a lot of people can relate to. And also I think often my story is, can I get, I feel my story is the opposite. I, I have to do more. It has to be like my, my like icky, stressful feeling is the like, oh, can I, I can only have all my needs met if I like, it is a sacrificing myself, but it's just like, oh, I, I have to do more.
This isn't enough. I have to work hard. I have to push, I have to essentially make myself sick and feel completely out, uh, you know, not in alignment with what I, what my ideals are and what I want to be true. And that's the only way that I'll be safe, you know, that's like the hypervigilant version of this.
Kyley: Yes, yes. Some say what we're all speaking to is like something has to be given in order to get what I need, right? Like in some way what I need is not acceptable on its face value. [00:29:00] And either I must sacrifice my, like spirit, my physical comfort. I have to overgive or I have to under receive. Like it can't just be as simple as I have needs and they're valid.
Um, and we just.
Eva: and can I, and I mean, part of it is like, and also can I trust that I can just, I don't know, be who I be and follow my joy and that that will give me what I need. Like I really wholeheartedly wanna believe that so bad you guys like so bad. And that is also my relationship with work too. It's like, I wanna believe that I can just do whatever the fuck I wanna do, which sometimes is gonna be work because I enjoy it.
And also that I can trust life to give me exactly what it is that I need. And um, and even as I say that, I can hear my like immigrant, like p parents and the cultural culture being like, that's. You're, that's some spoiled millennial bullshit, you know, like, well, blah, blah, blah, [00:30:00] blah, blah. The story can go on and on that, like that you're entitled.
Um, you are privileged. You are. Oh, entitled. Yeah. Kylie helped me with entitled the other day. Anyway, so those, those stories constantly creep up. It does feel like, to me, oftentimes a war between the practical and the spiritual, the, the mind and the heart.
Liz: When, when you, when both of you were speaking, but particularly even when you were speaking, what started to get really loud is this conversation, Kylie, have had multiple times about, um, this, this win loss model. So to, to pull that back. Last week or the week before, Kylie and I, we didn't have a fight, but we definitely had a, an impassioned engagement.
And, um, it was, we were both very uncomfortable. It was not, this was not like the
Kyley: And also though to be, uh, yes. And also we made ourselves feel [00:31:00] really safe through it. Right. It was actually a really great moment of like, oh, we have to do the scary thing and also we can make it a safe experience.
Liz: Yeah, it was fun. We got, it was fun. It was just like, we're not gonna pick that for fun,
Eva: Yeah,
Liz: know? Um,
Eva: sorry. Can I, I'm just so glad that you like, are naming that and speaking to it candidly because, um, I think that's just such an important part of like a healthy, successful partnership, friendship, romantic or business, you know, or otherwise. And, um, that just shows me that you guys are like, you know, in it to win it.
You're here for, you know, this is, this is, yeah. This is, that's, that's part of what Yeah. Makes this work.
Kyley: Oh,
Liz: Yes. And it was a really, yes. Say something,
Kyley: Okay. As the one who is in creative partnership with both of you, um, yeah. It is the only fucking way. If you are listening and you have a creative partnership or you would like a creative partnership, you have to be willing to say the fucking thing. And if you can't say the thing, and if you cannot listen to somebody else, say the [00:32:00] fucking thing.
Work by yourself, because, uh, like I trust you two with my life and my heart, and also with each of you, we've, I've had con we've had conversations that have been. Like difficult or a challenge or uncomfortable and that those are the moments in which like something that was something tremendous was birthed, right?
The, the, I see each of those moments of us being willing to hold each other and ourselves in like compassionate, like tension or disagreement as the moments that these relationships birth themselves into. Something like truly fucking remarkable.
Liz: Mm-hmm.
Eva: Yeah. Completely agree.
Kyley: go say the
Liz: it was really, it was really great because we continue to come back to the same core wounds, right? Every, every time Kylie and I have been at odds about something, it's pointing back to the same thing every time. Right? It just shows up with [00:33:00] like a different, it's got a different mask on and it's like, haha, I'm this, and then we pull off the mask and it's like, it's the freaking, you know, it's always the same.
Scooby do unveil. But it does give us these really beautiful checkpoints to be like, do you remember when we had this conversation a year ago and how that felt and how we navigated it? And that each time it is, as Kylie spoke to a building of We are safe. We are safe, we do get to speak to this and still be okay and still be safe.
And I did not have that as my foremost experience as a child. Right. I don't think that was Kylie's foremost experience as a child. So we're reparenting that with each other in a way that is, you can't put a pr, you can't put like a value on that. Right? It's, it's an invaluable experience
Eva: Yeah. I almost feel like it rewires your nervous system in a way, cuz your body is being like, oh wait, this is safe. Like, I can do this. It's, yeah, it's, it's pretty rad.
Kyley: I mean, can I, can I just actually share even, and I once [00:34:00] had a conversation and I, I think of reference on the show, but even I once had a conversation about like essentially the, the Hello universe to-do list and, uh, my, at the time, flakiness and us trying to navigate that. And I came to that conversation.
Anyway, long story short, at, at one point I just started sobbing because I was realizing in my body unconditional love in a way that I had not previously experienced, right? So this is a conversation where Eva's basically saying like, Hey, pal, like, I'm upset. And where it ended was me crying because I was realizing and experiencing and receiving so deeply that my friend is upset and also it does not impact how much she loves me.
And I didn't, I literally cognitively didn't understand that that was available, even as I have all sorts of friends that love me, right? Like in that moment, my, like, my reality expanded. Because Eva was a, willing to say the thing, and then B, also like wasn't [00:35:00] rescinding her love from me.
Eva: Right. I think it was like I was saying both things at one time, I actually couldn't remember. I, I didn't know what incident you were talking about until the end, but yes, it was the conversation of like, oh, I'm annoyed, but also I still love you. Like, those two things exist at the same time. And I, I didn't understand actually at the time, how, um, how I knew that you intellectually understood it, but I didn't understand that you didn't like in your body underst like understand it and that you had the strong reaction of like, oh, this is a possibility.
And I was like, oh, of course it's a possibility. Like it's a no-brainer. It's a possibility. And I think being in that space was like just really Yeah. You're, you're almost like, oh, this is interesting.
Kyley: Yeah, like a record skipped and was like, whoa, whoa. Cause your point is exactly right. Intellectually, I was like, yeah, like Eva doesn't stop loving me if she's annoyed at me. And also my body to the didn't, didn't know that to be true, right? My body and my subconscious, or whatever you wanna call it was like holding a memory of if people are upset there withdrawing their love.[00:36:00]
And so your job is to make sure that nobody's ever upset. And, and if someone's upset, like, hello, tsunami, shame, right? And so, um, and so I think that also just kind of speaks back to the power of what we're inviting people into in alchemy because we carry so much of this story of like, don't fuck up.
Because if you fuck up everything you need gets, gets taken care of. And intellectually you might have a story of gratitude, affirmations and like hustle isn't required. And also you. There's a really good chance you're carrying something different in these like deep underbelly parts of yourself, and if you don't meet them or have an opportunity where your friend sits down and and asks you to meet them, then you just keep fucking going on autopilot.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Liz: So the reason I brought up us fighting is
Eva: Oh yeah.
Liz: I'm actually like the, the [00:37:00] line is still very strong. My
Kyley: I'm impressed. I am very
Liz: I know. Usually the hamster's like I'm outta here, but this time he's still run, he's still connected. Um, um, which you've spoken to in other ways of like the, even when you spoke to like both things are true at the same time, I'm holding both things Right.
Annoyed and still love you. That the and both am situation. What was really clear in the conversation that Kylie and I had was we can both be fully valid in our experience, right? Kylie experienced what we both constantly experience ourselves as wrong. Like that's always default programming, you know, make no bones about that.
Like, well, I'm always wrong, it's fair, but as my first assumption, uh, we could both be. Our experiences were both totally valid. Kylie's experience rolling in was fully fucking valid. Mine was also fully valid. And so it wasn't that either one of us had to be wrong, right? Uh, especially when we can get down to the heart of it and we see, oh, Kylie's back to this [00:38:00] core wound, Liz is back to this core wound.
And of course, we just keep getting the opportunity to notice those in our interactions. Um, but the, we, we both noticed in the conversation how we felt somebody had to be wrong, right? Kylie wanted, well, Liz has to be wrong. She's not doing these things, and therefore she's wrong. And Liz, at the same time from her place is like, no, Kylie has to be wrong.
Stop doing this, that, or whatever. The, the real space starts to happen of like, oh no, you're valid. This wound is valid. Your experience in this wound is valid. The thing is also not the thing, right? We are, we are talking about the Scooby Doo mask and actually we're both in this entirely deeper place of soup, but uh, we are both right there.
There is no, there is no right or wrong happening here. And I think most of our stories as you were speaking to Eva about [00:39:00] I want to believe that I can do what I want and be okay and also do I have to like hustle and, and press and struggle and what we are weaving and why Kylie and I believe this is a medicine to actually change the world is a place where it is not either or.
We can, in so many different paradigms and frameworks, we can see how dichotomy is both the story of earth and also the. The struggle of earth, the, the poison of experience or the, the suffering of experience. And so when we step into alchemy and we're speaking about money as this teacher or the body, as this teacher, it's really opening up the space that it no longer has to be a dichotomy.
It no longer has to be either or, and it's coming to a place of, well, I guess oneness. But this place of both and, and the hugest part is this. Like nobody has to be wrong. [00:40:00] We don't have to pick, you are right or I'm right and if I'm right, therefore you are wrong. And I, I think over and over again, we witness with money how that is really like the base assumption is this place of dichotomy.
And I think that is part of why this is a big deal program, but also why Kylie and I are really passionate about this is only the beginning of how this spreads out because. We are truly here to change the world. We are not here to like coach five people and then go to bed. I mean, actually that's a great day.
But you know, I'm
Kyley: Your dream day,
Liz: that actually sounds really, really good. Can I be in bed by eight o'clock? Um, but from a perspective of this is actually ripples that, that start to shift an entire experience of humanity. You know, just little things that we're up to on a
Eva: deal.
Liz: Yeah.
Kyley: uh, cosign everything. Also, what I wanna point to is, so you're speaking to this, um, [00:41:00] you know, Someone must be right, someone must be wrong. Dynamic. And I wanna, you, you indicated this, and I wanna kinda underline it, that this is also the narrative we have within ourselves, right? That like Eva speaking to two parts, right?
One part who like wants to just like let go and trust and surrender. And another part that wants to make sure that she's fucking safe, right? And the one who wants to make sure he's fucking safe is holding on and grasping and hustling and controlling. And she is not wrong. Even as the experience of be, of the experience of being that kind of grasping, controlling self is exhausting and is actually creating friction and resistance and all of these things, the existence of that and the, and, and the pattern of that and acting out of that isn't wrong.
And in fact that part of you like our, our, our most uncomfortable monsters, these parts of ourselves that cause discomfort. They're just trying to take [00:42:00] care of, right? All of our, all the parts of us are just trying to accomplish some version of like self safety and self-preservation. Um, and when we drop the wrong narrative, then we can integrate each of these aspects of ourself with some kind of curiosity and compassion.
Like, okay, hustle. Eva, what does she need? Right? Graspy, Eva, what does she need? Okay. Like lounge in the fucking hammock. Eva, what does she need? Right?
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Rather than ping ponging between, this is what I see so often is like we go back and forth. It's either or and then, and then that's exhausting. It's just this rebellion thing. It's like, well, fuck it. Like I don't wanna, I don't need money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you go and you like retaliate by, and maybe overcompensate by being in like a.
It's almost like too loosey goosey and you're like, I'm just, I'm just a free soul and I'm just doing whatever I want. And then in that space, you've, you've gone too far, you've overcorrected and then you're like, and then you jump back into fear and you're like hypervigilant again. Cuz you're like, oh, well that doesn't work either.
Apparently I'm just [00:43:00] irresponsible and I'm a mess. So now I have to go back and work really hard. And so it's just this never, yeah, it does feel like a ping pong and never ending cycle. So yeah. I love this vision that you've painted of like the integration of the both, like really, I mean, everything that you put to our speaking to about like cultivating relationship and partnership, it can be applied to this too.
It's like all we want is just to be seen and heard and felt and validated and that's, no, that sounds simple. I don't think that's a small thing that is truly where so much of the, the like, I guess the, what you might call quote unquote healing happens. It's the beginning, you know?
Kyley: And, oh, were you gonna say something pal?
Liz: No, no, go.
Kyley: Okay. And I also wanna speak to the ping pong that you're talking about. So lots of people with money talk about going through cycles of boom or bust, right? This is very common in entrepreneurship, but it can also be common in like a regular, regular, you know, you have a, a, a more, um, [00:44:00] predictable income is these cycles of like, all right, I've got a lot.
Oh, it's all gone. I've got a lot. Oh, it's all gone. Right? And you're speaking about it. Perhaps, you know, you're also speaking about an energetic swing of like, I can rest, I gotta hustle, I can rest, I gotta hustle. If you experienced emotional instability, if you experienced like really dramatic upheaval as a child, you are more comfortable.
The dramatic swinging back and forth, right? You are most comfortable in like, okay, so we think we want stability and safety and security, right? But when you're a kid who only knew like cycles of crisis, when everything's going well, that's when your inner child is like most fucking primed to be in panic mode, because that means you're that much closer to the other shoe dropping, right?
And so this plays out with money all the time, where like, you get a bunch of money and then [00:45:00] immediately you wanna just throw it away. You, you watch yourself like, I had it, and it's instantly gone. Why? Because having that security actually felt scary because it freaked out your nervous system. Because your nervous system said, well, if we're safe, that means we're actually closer to crisis.
So if we throw ourselves into crisis, at least we understand the lay of the land and we know how to be in. Us. Um, and so one of the things that happens is, is that we are creating these cycles literally for self-preservation. And then to your point about the second arrow that you always bring up, we just like are so fucking cruel to ourselves for it, right?
And so it's like, I always do this thing and why am I here again? And what
Eva: And then your second shame and
Kyley: and then your second, and it's like,
Eva: shame bubble, then you can't get out. Then it's literally just a cycle.
Kyley: yeah. And everything that you are playing out with money is an act of self-preservation. Every single thing that you are doing around your relationships with money and how it's showing up in your life is oriented around self-preservation. And if it is not actually feeling [00:46:00] safe, it's because you have some fucking crossed wires around what the cost or tax or sacrifice of safety must be.
And also it doesn't have to stay that way, but willpower alone is not gonna change the.
Eva: Hmm. Yeah. So what does change the thing then? I mean, I think that's, yeah, that's a million dollar question. I know it's not an easy answer. There's no, or is it? I don't know, but that is my question to y'all.
Kyley: I feel like I'm talking a lot. Do you wanna turn or should I just keep,
Liz: If, if you're feeling jazzed, you're welcome to carry on. I'm also happy to field this one. So it depends on where you're at on your soapbox.
Kyley: I'm like midway. I'm also like midway down my soap. Right. Uh,
Liz: I think, think my, when you ask that question, Eva, there's a part of me that's like, it is actually very simple and that's immediately followed up. Like, Liz, how dare you with the hubris,
Eva: Hmm mm-hmm.
Liz: having an [00:47:00] answer to such a big question. But this, I, I can also,
Eva: yeah, that makes, because most of the time the answer is simple. Like it's simple, but, but not simple. It's, yes, I get it.
Liz: yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is why Kylie and I continue to step into more and more confidence about, What we offer because we continue to witness like, no, for real though, this works. No for real, though. This, this does make it different. This actually does change everything. We picked that as a motto over a year ago and at the time knew that it was true and also maybe didn't know how it was true.
And then we've witnessed over the last year of like, no, no, no, this, it's really true. It really does change everything. And that is the, this place of the witnessing, sinking in, further witnessing, sinking in further in [00:48:00] this for in our practice, which includes this really compassionate experience of looking at the body and emotions with. Real curiosity and then also the, the immense patience of like, okay, that's scary. Is this a kind of scary that we wanna ask a question about? Is this a kind of scary that we just need to like, give a chance to sit there is And trusting that also in even asking and even noticing, we are already shifting.
Things are already moving because we have brought attention to it. And I know there are other traditions where this is a part of, of the teaching, right? That, that we are not unique in. Um, but this, this practice of witness hold compassionately, witness hold compassionately immensely simple on the surface.
And also really a practice of falling in [00:49:00] deeper, falling in deeper. And while we continue to come back to the place of this really is best done with a friend, this really is most. Nourishing when you are not alone in the wild drowning. And that's not to say you couldn't do it alone in the wild, but I think part of the reason Kylie and I have come to a place where we can have these like very passionate conversations where we're both activated, like almost some point of being activated out of our bodies.
Right? So heightened and yet continue to move through this place is because this practice of witnessing, sinking, witnessing, sinking really does work.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Liz: I did I answer that?
Kyley: Great. Yes and beautiful. And I think when you apply the lens of there is no right or wrong when you apply the lens that you are not [00:50:00] wrong and also not right, then there's nothing to fix. And so, Oftentimes like what we're conditioned for is to witness and then immediately fucking fix, right? Fixing is controlling, right?
Fixing is actually like an opting out. So Liz is speaking to witnessing and sinking in deeper. Witnessing is like engaging curiously with whatever is loud, which might be the body, which might be the emotion, which might be the story, and then sinking in deeper. Fixing is an opting out, right? So for example, say you get a bill in the mail and you immediately feel like shit, okay, to fix would be to start running The numbers to fix would be to start beating yourself up about how you suck at money, right?
To fix would be like action and, and, and perhaps avoidance or grasping control. What we would hold is in that moment of being triggered that there's something, there's some tremendous wisdom and, and the [00:51:00] portal for transformation and I think. That it is specifically in the place of friction or trigger or ragner rock, as we sometimes say, that you get, that you get to fallen deeper.
So where you have been conditioned to like pull away because the stove is too hot, we invite you to pull yourself in. So, um, you know, another story that I almost shared about
Eva: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So so, so, okay. So I'm gonna do that thing where the Capricorn thing, where I'm like, okay, let's take that and like really ground this
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: into like at, I don't know, Tangible things. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Tangible things. So I want you to walk us through that experience, because I think that's really important for people to understand like what, what, what's possible and what your own experience has been with this.
So like, so, okay, so you get the bill. Like this is something that I think a lot of people can, can relate to. It's like something happens, you're triggered about money, may, maybe it's a bill. Maybe you go out to dinner with your friends and like you can't, I don't know, [00:52:00] like something about splitting the bill triggers you or uh, whatever.
There's a million different things in the way. It's just triggered, right? And so let's just say, so then you feel shame or you feel just that, that feeling. Then what?
Kyley: Okay, perfect. So, all right, you, something happens about money. The bill splitting the bill, something comes in the mail, whatever, and you immediately feel the feeling, right? That's, that's the starting point, right?
Liz: I'm so here for the walk feeling. If y'all could just keep passing that back and forth.
Kyley: Um, because probably immediately you don't actually have a name for that feeling, right? And so most of the time what we, my what, what we, what you might be inclined to do, if you have some capacity for some tools is to like, okay, I feel, I feel a, I'm squirmy, I'm having to split the bill with my friend. I, I'm a little worried about how much money I have.
I feel like, shit, I'm gonna take some deep breaths and let this. Right. And so you might sit there, you might take a deep breath, kind of regulate your nervous system, and then let the whole thing go and then move on. There's some great compassion in there. And what Liz and I would offer is that, speaking of missed [00:53:00] opportunity, that feeling whatever was getting stirred up, there is a portal.
You don't have to take every fucking portal that comes along, right? Like you also get to opt out, but, but the, there is something tremendously rich happening in that moment of like, I have to split the bill, and all of a sudden I feel like shit. Right? And so what we would hold is that perhaps you take a few deep breaths and you start to notice what the fuck is going on, right?
Which maybe starts with noticing in your body. That's really Liz's area of expertise. Maybe starts noticing like the emotions or sensations. Maybe just starts with like, my mind won't stop racing about how like, This friend always asked me to split the bill, but I only had a like cup of soup and they got a steak and I can't say anything.
Right? Like it's whatever's a, whatever's available. Right. Um, um, so there's story, which is the mind. There's the feelings, the sensations of like, you [00:54:00] know, fear or dread or there's the body sensation. Those are kind of three different portals that might be available to you. And what we would, what we would offer.
And then I wanna throw to you to gonna bring us deeper in this, Liz, is like that, that the point of friction is the place to sink in deeper and find out like, okay, maybe the first thing that's available is the story about the friend and the splitting. And what you notice is how much you are wanting to say no and how deeply unsafe it's, it feels to say.
And again, that might be a place where you're like, oh, okay, well then I opt out. I, I hop out and I fix and I say, no, that's totally a choice. And also there's another layer deeper around like, okay, body, I see how scary no feels. I, I'm noticing my heart is racing and my shoulders are tense, and I'm feeling into the layers of no being really fucking unsafe.
And then that might then bring you a layer deeper to, you know, oh yeah, you know, here's all these experiences in my life where no hasn't been [00:55:00] available, or No, hasn't been safe, or I've been punished for no. Or right. There just gets to be to your point of infinite. There's like infinite layers. And also like the, the, the, the, the, the trigger here has an anchor that goes down to something really.
I think that's really the thing about money is that the anchors go really, really deep. And so you don't, you're not gonna go all the way down to the very bottom every single time, especially if you're still sitting here. This is happening live while your friend's like calling the waiter to get the bill.
Right. um, and also this is why I continue to be so fucking grateful to like have a partnership with Liz per, like, in this personal practice because some of the places that I am asking myself to go are actually really uncomfortable, right? Because they are these like, Look, it is touching into survival, right?
It is touching into the part of me that thinks if we say no, we cannot survive. Right? And therefore, we have to say yes to [00:56:00] things that we don't wanna fucking say yes to. And therefore we have to give of ourselves in ways that we don't want to in order to survive. And that's trickling all the way back up to your inability to say, no but's putting the bill and your inability to set boundaries with your mom and the fucking undercharge prices that you have in your business.
It's all the same. And also, if you're only changing those actions at the surface level, they're unsustainable because your nervous system is fucking terrified by all these boundaries that you're trying to set.
Eva: Right. Yeah.
Liz: I wanna mark for our brains right now. Can, if one of our wind Sox can hold onto this, Kylie, uh, I feel like we could do a whole workshop on consent. There's so much deliciousness wrapped up in consent that's come up multiple times in the last couple of weeks, and I just wanna drop that, uh, for us to do on and, and soon.
Um, there are, there are two ways that I would follow up on that. The first is that you said, uh, this thing that's happening is like potentially dropping down to something big. And I wanna note how often [00:57:00] I witnessed this in my family recently. How often if the surface story doesn't feel big enough that on its own is a dismissal.
So like the other day, my sister was, I was just like pooped after work, right? And, and everything was grading for her and she was like, I don't, I don't have a good reason for this. I, I feel X and I don't have a good reason for it. And part of what Kylie and I would hold again and again is like, because all of these things are dropping to the same place.
There is no point of that that is bigger or more valid or whatever. Your experience might be bigger, but, but it's pointing you in. It's an opportunity to drop into these places so much cheaper. So there is not, you know, like someone telling you you smell like a cat, uh, that seems maybe on the surface, like not a big deal, but actually is pointing to something really big.
And it doesn't have to be racked and stacked as to like, this is valid for the reaction that I'm feeling. On the contrary, [00:58:00] the reaction that you're feeling is this beautiful opportunity into what is really fucking valid as your experience. Um, and that's often then how we invite people back into these really potent places.
So again and again, the invite is to be compassionate with yourself, which means truly everything is neutral. You cannot choose wrong. If you choose to dive in, great. If you choose not to dive in, great. If you react out of anger, great. If you don't react out of anger, great. Right? Like actually everything is neutral, which I'm sure for people we've coached what I've been like, you can't choose wrong.
They're like, why don't you, you're the worst coach ever. You know, like, like, get outta here.
Kyley: And we're like, great response, cuz that's not wrong.
Liz: Right, right, right, right, right. And it's like, this is, this is challenging advice. Um, and also when everything is neutral, then you have this really beautiful place to just watch. How things, what is actually [00:59:00] bubbling, right?
Instead of immediately slapping the labels of Right, wrong, choose, don't choose. Okay, so in that vein, very rarely can we in the moment actually fall into the portal. Very, very rarely, right? Life is still happening around you. You're probably engaging with another human. It, it's, it's unreasonable that you're like, oh, I'm gonna take this moment to close my eyes and like, you know, dive into some really deep wound that I'm experiencing.
Eva: the middle of this restaurant.
Liz: yeah, yeah. Like that's not compassionate to yourself. That's a whole growth. Should that further, uh, instigates on safety. But when we are then holding space after the fact, we can use those, those triggers, which might be little frigging things. It may not be. Think back to the last time you were in this.
Atrocious situation. We don't have to go back to the most, um, traumatic [01:00:00] experience of your life. To find these drops into the center, we can go back to really little things and just start to ask some of those curious questions. Okay. When you think about that situation, what do you notice in your body?
What do you notice happens with your breath? What thoughts immediately come up to the surface and we can start to make our way in. And that's part of how, uh, Kylie and I work together is like weaving the deeper and the deeper and the deeper. Sure, it may not be available right off the top to get to the heart of it, but really your body is hungry to communicate what is there.
It is hungry to share with you what is below the surface, so it doesn't actually take. It doesn't take that much like prodding and prying for those, for those things to start to be available and for you to be able to sink down below the layers. Um, I've, since people listening, can't see all my hand motions as I'm talking, what I hope
Eva: got good hand. You [01:01:00] have great hand motions. By the way, I was thinking like this should really be on YouTube. Cause I feel like it really land a little bit better, but okay.
Liz: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that is, I do feel like we're missing something in the translation, but what I hope comes through is that we are very committed to holding space of ease and that we are not going into the mine with our helmet on and our pickax, and we're gonna start like sweating away, hacking away at these things.
We're moving into them with gentleness and with ease, and in that way we can start to really see and experience and uncover without. One further destroying your nervous system. Um, but, but even in that witnessing to start to shift what is happening, that is, that is how it begins to shift. Because we're not saying, come in here and frigging work hard to uncover something.
Okay, well then we're just buying back into the same thing that we know doesn't work. So,
Eva: Then you go in there brace like, you know, like this program. Yeah, I [01:02:00] totally hear what you're saying. You're not bracing yourself to be like, oh, I have to go do all this inner child work and it's gonna, no, it's, it's, I don't, I, cuz then you don't, you can't even get in because you're just like so braced for something difficult.
But I think we can only ever really enter into this work with some grace and some ease and some like hum humil like laughter, you know, like have a beat. Hilarious too.
Kyley: Yes.
Liz: I mean, that's why it helps if you pick a pal who's going to laugh as soon as you're like into the shit every time one of us is like, oh man, this is really bad. Inevitably the other one's response is like, Ooh, how fun. What else is happening in here? Right.
Eva: Exactly.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: true. Like, oh my God. Yeah. Kylie does that very well for me. But basically like anyone who, I think it's mostly like my coachy friends because they're like, And I lo it's, I'm so thankful for that all the time. Cause I come in here being like, oh, this is so serious.
Like, this is, I'm, I'm so invested in this story. And then when someone, I mean, sure, sometimes it's a little bit annoying when, but annoying in a good way when [01:03:00] someone's like, ha, haha. Like, you cho you have created this way for yourself. You know? Like, I know you chose this story and it's like, uh, it's a breath of fresh air, you know, to not have to be so identified and feel like, oh, this is the end of the world.
Kyley: Can I also, um, share something, which is that I think, you know, Liz and I talk a lot about like, going into the muck as we do here on the show, Eva, but you know, we talk a lot about like, you know, go into the uncomfortable place and, and, you know, dive into the, the, the, you know, places you've been avoiding going and, and I appreciate that you're both saying like, it doesn't have to be hard.
And also I want to acknowledge that the, that there is a way that in my life I have a greater capacity for joy that I have ever experienced before, that often happens at the exact same time that I am perhaps witnessing something that feels sharp or painful or uncomfortable. Right? What's, [01:04:00] what, what's happened as I like, continue on this path of going into the muck is that, My grief is no long, and it changes from time to time, but often my grief is not all consuming, right?
It can sit right alongside my joy and my ability to laugh. And I might have even enjoyed this on the, the show recently, but I had an evening where, you know, I had kind of like unearthed something very sharp and pointy and, and uncomfortable, and I was witnessing the shape of it in my heart at the same time that I was like feeling so joyful and content to read my book on the couch with my husband.
And, and I think I also wanna offer, you know, we're talking a lot about like going in and, and, and, and meeting the friction or the trigger. And what I wanna offer is it's not because then you heal and then you get to have what you want. Although I do think [01:05:00] we write, rewrite our stories and actually create and receive what we want, but it's because.
You also get to experience that the constant churn of like grief and complex emotions sit alongside our contentment and they no longer threaten. Right? I, I guess I no longer feel like my sadness threatens my happiness and I experience them both coexisting at the same time. Um, and so it's, it's also I think, important when we are speaking to alchemy.
Much, much like the work that you do, Eva, that it's, it's not about arriving at some place and earning something that lives off in the distance, but dropping in and giving yourself permission in a deep, embodied way to experience safety now. Right? Fucking now
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. So many good things said there. Okay, so I don't wanna, I, I, I feel like I wanna emphasize your point about how your sadness doesn't, what did you say? Like, take [01:06:00] away from your happiness. It doesn't threaten your happiness, just take a moment to like, enjoy that for a second. I think that's a big fucking deal.
That's a big deal. It's, it's actually similar also to what you were saying about Liz earlier, about how it's like, uh, you know, having these migraines and not loving them, but also seeing them as like a, as as evaluating them for what they are. Don't know, I just, this idea that you both and, and you and everything can exist, but especially this idea of Yeah, it doesn't have, that's, that to me, I think is a wisdom.
Like instead of this chasing of the happiness, it, I think my 20 year old self would've been like, that doesn't sound as sexy or as fun, but I actually think that's it. Wait, like if you can get to a space where your sadness doesn't threaten your happiness, um, yeah, I think that's like a, that's born from wisdom and maybe maturity and growing up and I think it's a beautiful thing.
Cause I think there's [01:07:00] liberation in that. And oh, what was the second thing that you said about, um, what was the last thing that you were talking about, Kylie, do you remember?
Kyley: It's been two minutes, so no, I've already forgotten.
Eva: um, yeah, it's gone. It's
Kyley: It's okay. I do have a whole nother thing that I
Eva: Okay. Yeah.
Kyley: to.
Eva: Let's, let's do it. Let's do it.
Kyley: Well, I, you know, we've spoken a lot about like the emotional and thematic journey around money. And I also wanna speak to like the material experience around money too, right? So there's a million programs out there that are like, come for your glitzy a hundred K months, blah, blah, blah.
And I find them very to often very toxic. And you will not hear that language in this program. And. I don't want to act like this is a program that doesn't take account for the actual material experiences that you are having with money, right? Like we are interested in holding space for the deep emotional nuances that are under [01:08:00] the surface of your money story so that you can create a different kind of experience.
And also that's really for both of us, fucking rooted in the fact that you have bills to pay, right? And that you have money owed, money desired, a vacation you wanna buy, or a mortgage you have to pay, or a school lunch that you have to scrounge up fucking quarters for, right? And so this is not a program to discredit or diminish or ignore the very real material experiences that you may be having and hating about money, but in fact, to create like a more generous holding.
Around those experiences. And also as someone who has a really fucking complicated emotional history with money, which is ma mostly like shame, right? That's the, the overarching theme was shame. Um,
the, my ex, my very lived experience is that it is in rewiring these deep emotional stories and it is in like [01:09:00] tending to the things we have been talking about here, that you create space to have receiving feel safe or have consistent wealth, feeling safe or having consistent safety actually feel safe, right?
So the, the external experiences begin to reorder themselves and reorder themselves quickly. And also we begin to carry a story in our bodies that are, that is a kind of rooted safety that isn't defined by the external.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: get to have this deep sense of safety and validation and contentment that isn't attached to the external, and also the external gets to change.
Yes. And right. Um, and so if you're listening to this and you're like, well, it sounds like I'll feel better about money, but I'll still be fucking broke. What I wanna offer is like, this is the container for radically transforming your inner world through the portal of money and [01:10:00] 1000% it will also change your external reality.
What your external reality changes into is gonna be rooted in what you actually fucking want, which might be a lot of money. It might be something entirely different. It might be quitting your high paying job and like living in the fucking woods. Like, I don't know. Because it's your story and your journey and your experience of safety and liberation.
Um, but this is the path to creating both the external and internal experiences that you're hungry for.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Preach sis.
Kyley: Do we do joy? it that?
Eva: I mean, yeah. I don't know how you guys feeling? Do you feel like. You know, as I would ask some people, is there anything that we didn't discuss that we didn't ask that you wanna touch?
Liz: I just wanna underline, I think Kylie's last point, which was there's no place to get to. We are, we are interested in creating a rich and full life [01:11:00] and interested in cultivating for ourselves and with our clients the experience of holy living, living fully. Having a robust and rich experience in the world and in our current paradigm, yes, money is integrated with that, but that is the place where sadness and joy exist, coexist.
That is the, that is the space where big emotions don't need to be feared. Big experiences don't need to be avoided because we can, uh, richly weave our way through them and and experience them robustly like the real spice. That is life, the real flavor that is life comes not from clamping down on our experiences or trying to make sure these terrifying things don't happen to us.
They come [01:12:00] in the place of really living and relishing being. I don't say that lightly, as in that means only positive things happen. Um, positive, right, with, with big air quotes. But that I think what we are all hungry for is to live richly and to know the experience of being whole. And that is everything that Kylie and I are continually in personal practice for.
And also the space that we desire to hold and cultivate for other people is this experience of a rich, vibrant, whole life. Um, which we just have a lot of different teachers offering us. The way to pour into that money is one of those things. Our bodies are one of those ways, right? There are portals to get there, but that's always what we're pointing back to.
Eva: Yeah, that's really beautiful. I mean, to when you, you know, [01:13:00] when you were speaking was language that I. That I don't know if other people would agree with, but it's, I think again, it feels like a very Capricorn mind thing of, of there's like practicality. But I think there is, it's like a skillfulness I think there is such a thing as skillfully living life, as in which means oftentimes how like means knowing how to be your whole full human self.
And you know, it sounds like that's what you are offering, but you're essentially, you know, yeah. Offering and holding space for, and teaching people in this course through money. It's how to skillfully move through these things so that you're not a victim to these like, really difficult situations or uncomfortable situations.
Um, which is like, honestly, yeah, all, like, all I ever really want is like, it's not the promised land of like, oh, being a millionaire and like, you'll get to this like whatever place and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cause like, that's like not it, [01:14:00] um, I'd rather like everything that I do myself, like course, you know, classes that I take and teachers that I work with, it's like, how can I skillfully move through this life?
And I just feel like that's such a gift. Yeah.
Kyley: If your desire is to be a millionaire and you're a millionaire, you're still gonna have experiences of friction with money. Right? And so there isn't some place, even though we're constantly told the story, that you will arrive at some magic place where you will have made enough money that you no longer worry about money anymore.
And also, that's not fucking true unless you have an experience. Like, unless you learn how to skillfully embody not being worried about money, right? Or perhaps more potently, learning how to dance with the money, with the worry that shows up so that the friction becomes a portal, right? So that every time, at this point, every time I have a point of friction around money, there's some part of me that's like, Ooh, liberation lives
Eva: Mm-hmm. [01:15:00] Mm-hmm.
Kyley: because I have a set of like, I, I ha I have a, a way of moving through the friction where I know I am freer on the other side and therefore, Happier, more content and also removing resistance to receiving what I actually fucking want. Um, um, which is sometimes more money, which is sometimes less work, which is sometimes like, you know, I don't know.
It, it, it, it sometimes has nothing to do. It often has nothing to do with money and sometimes it has a lot to do with money. Um,
Eva: yeah, yeah,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: yeah. Let's do joy.
Kyley: Liz, how, what's bringing you
Liz: with me. Don't start with me.
Kyley: You're
Liz: the other
Eva: We, we, we always start with the guest.
Kyley: We're very strict around here.
Liz: yeah. I know. The rules are really what dictates how you exist. Yes. I believe this, this story.
Kyley: Uh, Eva, do
Eva: I mean [01:16:00] for you, Liz, we can bend the rules. I like that. I like that you're pushing back. I like that you're pushing back. So, so I will share, I've got one locked and loaded. Cause I was thinking about it before the show. Um, what is bringing me joy? It's an amalgam of different things. It's this, being able to, to work after I think a couple of months of having my life be in transition and, um, upheaval, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And just this feeling of like, oh, I, yeah, it, it does really ground me. It gives me a sense of focus and I just really like working and even like being on social media, which at times if listeners listen to the podcast, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh fuck, social media. I can't take blah, blah, blah. And now I'm in this space where I think it's a gratitude.
You know, it's like whenever you don't have access to something, when you suddenly have access to it again, you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I ever took this for granted. You know, it's like you, it's, I. I'm so lucky that I get to work and that I have this stability. [01:17:00] I'm back in a place of like the stability of life where I can anyway, just like do, do that.
And so, yeah, I guess it's, if it's a feeling of gratitude and while in my work, because I'm working on like I'm, I'm launching different things and every time Kylie's always saying, you know, when you do a launch, like you get a dose of your own medicine. So I've gotten doses of a lot of my own fucking medicine and I've been, um, working through like some self-love shit and I dunno, I, I, this is kind of a, a, a random mix of things that are bringing me joy, but Kylie also helped me through some like self-love stuff that I was really like struggling with and Oh God.
And it's, I think it, it's just been a really beautiful experience. I think I get to experience learning more about myself because of work as well. And so that's another way in which I feel like my relationship with work. Can be really beautiful sometimes. So anyway, I don't know. Hopefully that made sense.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: All right. How about you, [01:18:00] Kylie? You wanna go next?
Kyley: sure.
Eva: you'll go last.
Kyley: Um, okay, so both of you already actually heard a little bit of what I'm about to say, but it's too good not to share it to the podcast. We went to a Red Sox game yesterday with the kids, and it was just the most hilarious, totally spectacular, goofy day with my kids. Um, I think we watched like, you know, one half of one inning, right?
And we just spent all the time like exploring Fenway Park. Um, but highlights included. We got like a sideway frank, like a hotdog for birdie that was like a giant hotdog, like right, it would be a large hotdog for an adult man. And birdie ate the entire thing.
Eva: Oh, she ate the whole thing.
Kyley: the entire thing. At one point,
Eva: her body.
Kyley: it was at one point I said, birdie, can I have a bite?
And she said no.
Eva: Yeah, I see. This is what I'm saying, like, kids, like she just, she just knows her boundaries. She's not apologetic
Kyley: especially birdie. God
Eva: story about being [01:19:00] spoiled or entitled.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: I'm like, yes, give me birdie energy.
Kyley: Seriously. And then later, like, like 15 minutes later, she's just like in the like bubble, the like ecstasy bubble with the hot dog and 15 minutes later she looks up at me and goes, it's cuz you didn't say please
Eva: Damn, girl. That's sass.
Kyley: hard about that in our house. Like, we're like, you know, but also I just love that she was so in the bubble of the hotdog that like no time had elapsed right? Like that She was like coming up for air and was like, oh, that moment, all that time ago. It's cuz you didn't say please. It was so great. Um, and Desi was just like so excited and beside himself and, uh, just like, he's like in an age where he's like really into watching sports with Nick.
And so they were just like very cute [01:20:00] and um, Yeah, this is like a great, you know, I shared on the podcast recently that I am loving this age because my kids are not tiny, tiny anymore. Like they're old enough for us to like, go have adventures, have fun, funny conversations. And it felt like that, it felt like another moment of like, yeah, okay, this is fun.
I really like this, this cha I, I really feel jazzed about this chapter of parenthood.
Eva: Hmm. Yeah. Um, sorry, this is a hard pivot. Before we jump to you, but before we jump to Liz, are you a Red Sox fan?
Kyley: I mean, I went to college like a block from Fenway Park and when the Red Sox won the World Series, so like when everybody like stormed into Fenway and like flipped cars and I didn't flip cars, but I was like there amongst the mayhem. Um, and so I did, that was the first sports team that I, cause my dad's not a sports fan, so it was the first time that I was like, oh, sports are, he would be like my entire.
[01:21:00] You know, for context, people like the Red Sox hadn't won since, like, we hadn't won a World Series in like 70 years or something ridiculous up until that point. And so my entire college, like every door, like every every dorm room people were watching the game. It was like this very exciting community event.
Um, and, um, my husband really loves sports in a very, like, he's really good at telling the story of the characters, like the players and the coaches. Um, so I did, I, I did like sports and then I had kids and now I have such limited like time for myself that I'm like, if I'm spending time on something, it's just not gonna be the Celtics or the Red Sox, but maybe when my kids are older, I'll care again.
Eva: Okay. Okay. Sorry. I, I mean, that's a weird question coming from me as someone who doesn't know fuck all about sports or does not care. But I do think there's something about like you, like you live outside of Boston. Like I feel like Boston is like a sports city. I lived in Philly.
Philly is a sports city. Like I don't care about football, but I know I love the Eagles just by through association. So like, [01:22:00] anyway, it's sports are interesting to me. I don't know anything about it, but I do think there's this culture there. So I was just, I was just curious and I've never asked you before.
Kyley: Yeah. It, it, I, I, it was a fun chapter and I'm not opposed to reemerging like becoming a sports fan again, but I'm enjoying my reprieve from sports
Eva: cool, cool, cool. All right, Liz, now we finally have come to you.
Liz: Yes, thank you. The extra time was very helpful. Since I didn't do my homework, I knew there was homework and I also didn't do it. So thank you for the reprieve. Um, I, at the risk of being too on the nose, I. I've really been getting joy from our villain error program and from watching our villains like walk through.
Okay, so Kylie and I know that what we do worse, right? That's like we know, and also to watch it work and to watch the ways that it's unfolding. And we're like, we're, we're throwing these people into deep things and it's so [01:23:00] beautiful to watch them come into the chat and be like, oh my gosh, like baba yaga, what is happening?
Right? Or when Cali, it was Cali Week and everybody was like deep in the rage and it was, it's, it's just so nourishing one because this is always medicine for us, right? Every program we launch is medicine for us both in the launch and the execution, but then to witness this unfolding for other people in these just fun ways.
I mean, sometimes really spicy. It's not always fun, spicy, but watching this unfold for people is. Uh, it's, it's just great. I'm having a great time with it, so I'm extra thankful for that. And it's really big joy. This has been so far, this has definitely been our funnest program. It's the program that we launched fully off of vibes and ugh, it's, I'm just really jamming in it, so,
Kyley: yeah. Speaking of which, uh, if you wanna be on the wait list for the next round, shoot me a DM[01:24:00]
Liz: yeah,
Kyley: cuz we're already talking about that.
Eva: I mean, I can already just feel the energy of this. It's like, duh. Of course. It's gotta be fun to allow like wake people up into their villain era. Like how can that not be fun? That just sounds like fun.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Liz, how can people follow along with you?
Liz: Oh, uh, well just Instagram because that's the only way I choose to engage with the world, and that's always. Ravens eye healing. But then we also have started our meme account, Raven and Marro, and it's for all the delicious memes that Kylie collects, like a, you know, there are bobs that she collects. So those are two great ways too.
Eva: that you called it your meme account.
Kyley: yeah. It's Raven Dot and Marro.
Eva: yeah. Yeah. It's great though. It's great.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: All right.
Kyley: Thank you so, so much. [01:25:00] Um, yeah. I love your, I just love you both so much.
Eva: Yes, and Liz. Uh, there will, yeah. Anyway, I'll see you next time. You'll be on again. Yeah, again as soon, soon, I know it. So we'll see you again soon.
Liz: So much fun. Thanks y'all. Love you both.