Buckle up! We’re ending season 3 with a bang. Kyley opens up about a story she never tells as we all get ready for summer vacation.
Buckle up! We’re ending season 3 with a bang. Kyley opens up about a story she never tells as we all get ready for summer vacation.
Free self love breakthrough sesh:
https://calendly.com/bossevaliao/selflove?month=2023-06
Loving ourselves into power:
https://www.evaliao.com/lovingourselves
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Enroll in The Business Incubator
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Hi, it's Kylie. Oh,
Eva: Of course, of course. Welcome to the end of Season Three guys.
Kyley: we're so jazzy recording. We're tripping over each other to say our intros. This is Kylie.
Eva: This is Eva and welcome to Hell Universe.
Kyley: Yeah, before we had on our summer que
Eva: Yeah, I mean, Kylie and I are celebrating the end of three seasons of this show that has changed our lives and hopefully brought [00:01:00] some joy and I don't know, openness into your life as well.
Kyley: Also Eva, I have a celebration to announce that you don't know because I, I didn't telegram message you this, but I was looking at the stats for our show cuz we have been, we set the intention that we were gonna really grow this season and we are like, Uh, only a small handful of listeners short of being in the top 10% of podcasts.
Eva: What?
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. We're a big fucking deal.
Eva: wait, hold on. Sorry. I'm like listeners. I I am, you're sorry. Catching me in real time processing. Like
Kyley: I tricked you. I did it on
Eva: I know. I was gonna say, did you do the, wait, hold on. Let's, let's rewind. Because we had talked about, like, we had seen some of the numbers and I was like, I don't understand numbers. Like I don't know what to do with this information and you're really good with numbers and you're, anyway.
And, um, but we had toyed around with the fact that like, oh, this might mean that we're like in the top 10%, but [00:02:00] I was like, that's not
like, is that
Kyley: So we are so, um, we are, I think 150 listeners downloads a month shy of being in the top 10%. So I imagine I'm rounding us to 11%.
Eva: Motherfucker look
Kyley: So please go find your friends so we can bump that shit up to be solid. 10%
Eva: yes. Like, please, please, please, please, please, yeah, go. If we can get a hundred more, 50 more people to download per week,
Kyley: per month. Per month. Not even that many. That's like, you know, not that
Eva: oh, per month.
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: Dude, that's not, we could do that.
Kyley: Yeah, for real.
Eva: Okay. I think we're gonna have to back to this point at the top of season four cuz this could be a whole podcast episode because I wanna tell you listeners like that is amazing to me because Kylie and I have really tried to stay true to our ethos and creating this is like, let it be fun and let it be [00:03:00] easy and.
To do it our way. And I think that's, if that's something that we can hold for other people, like if you are out there listening, you're like, I just wanna do shit my own way without having to contort myself or, you know, all that stuff. Like, that's something that Kylie and I are talking about all the time.
And
Kyley: I know someone who's really good at coaching you how to do that in your business, but carry on. Carry on.
Eva: I mean basically that's Kylie's whole spiel with business and she helps me that with that, you know, every damn day. So, I am shook it. I'm almost speechless.
Kyley: Well, the other thing that's really cool about it too is that, uh, part of that intention of like, we're gonna do it our way. Has also been this season, we got really intentional about not doing the shit that we didn't wanna do. Right? All of the things that we thought were required or were like the good advice to grow a podcast like we used to.
Early listeners might know, we used to do a lot [00:04:00] of social media, like we would record reels and we would make all these slideshows and we would put a lot of effort into our social media promotion. And it started to get to this point of being, um,
Eva: Daunting,
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: like not as fun, you know?
Kyley: right, like this, this show even. I just love more than almost anything else.
But the, the promotional arm just started to feel like a fucking drag. But going into this season, we just simplified everything. Show notes are a sentence we, like, we promote the show each week, but it's like one slide, this one sentence show note. And I really love that we cut out all the shit that we thought we had to do and the show was like, yeah, we got time to grow.
Eva: Yeah. Well, that's the whole thing. That's what that, that's what we are trying, that's like, like what I'm constantly trying to test out is like, If I just do things in a way that feel in alignment with me and what I believe and my joy can, things still work.
And [00:05:00] I'm like, that's, that's it. I mean, if that's something that resonates with you all, come back to season four and keep listening and be in this energy.
Cause I think it's good, but also like go back and listen to all our past episodes and I think we actually even had an episode about how we wanted to grow the podcast.
Kyley: couple, we did like a, we did a, we did a couple episodes of us. They were like business meetings that we recorded, which I'm putting business meetings in air quotes cuz it's the way that you and I do business or. Which is like, let's talk about our deep heartfelt feelings about like, is it safe to be seen?
Can like, because look, the thing is, yes, you can build a business on your terms and you can be successful doing it, doing what you want to do and not doing what you don't want to do. But if your story continues to be well, right? Okay. A lot of, I think this middle ground that can happen is, I don't wanna do all of the, this grinding promotion, but is required to grow.
Then you can be in this middle ground where you're kinda like a petulant teenager, no shade on petulant teenagers, but where you're [00:06:00] like, no, I refuse, and you're kind of mad about it. And then, and that can be an important part of the process, but what ends up happening then is that that can keep you just as locked in to not growth because you're still carrying the story that it's required.
So you're kind of in rebellion instead of sovereignty. So,
Eva: Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Kyley: And like it's a great phase. Be a rebel, right? Everyone likes to be a petulant teenager, but like then you, then the invitation is like you keep moving through that
Eva: Yeah. Oh, so good. Okay. Um, I don't, you know, I don't know the names of those episodes cuz we've long forgotten, but if that's of interest to you, you can go back to our website, I'm sure and like find it.
Kyley: Yes, yes.
Eva: Um, okay. We have a pretty juicy episode lined up for you today. Um, I'm actually like really excited to dive in.
I think, uh, Kylie, I think we both have things that we wanna [00:07:00] share about, um, doing a bit of a side-by-side comparison of like where we were last summer versus where we are now. And both Kylie and I have been through the ringer, which is why I think it's really interesting, um, for us to show you guys where we're at and what else, what else was it?
We wanna show people where we're at and also like the light at the end of the tunnel
Kyley: Yeah, I think specifically last summer, you and I, for different reasons and in different ways we're each in this place that was fucking hard. Like really hard.
Eva: I was going through like just as a preview some medical shape with my then partner and then contemplating like breakup, which was terrifying to me. And you, Kylie?
Kyley: Had some like really big childhood wounds that I had very lovingly wallpaper over and pretended did not, ex did not exist anymore. Like, you know, the, the, the, the wall, the dam broke, the wall broke [00:08:00] there, and I had to sit in them. And I had a huge shift in my business that was really painful. And it was just this period of like feeling scared and sad and stuck and, um, And, and I think for both of us, things feel different
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: and, and it, we were speaking before this podcast, like it still feels very much like we continue to have this feeling of being like mid evolution, which might be the perpetual feeling, right?
Um, but I think my desire was to record a podcast speaking to the ways in which, like hope in the dark, right? That you have these moments where it feels like everything is falling apart or everything is cratering in, or like I am in over my head or I'm contemplating things that I like. I have to make decisions [00:09:00] that I don't fucking wanna deal with.
And um, and I think I just wanted to speak to all the ways that we get to, I don't know, be transformed and create space through those experiences.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Um, very well said. And I, I'm really excited to diving in. We're looking forward to diving in. But before, before we get, how about this, before we get into the juicy juice of it, let's do a little bit of promotion and
Kyley: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you got some cool stuff coming on.
Eva: I do. Do you want me to hit it?
Okay, cool. So, let's see. This is coming out this Wednesday, which means that by the time this comes out, y'all will have a little less than a week to join. Me and my friend Federico in our new program, loving ourselves into power. Um, Federico's on the podcast a few episodes ago. Um, if you are someone who wants to like, get us dose of like big self-love, I suggest you go and listen to that episode.
Um, this program [00:10:00] is for people who actually like me in Federico, have had a really complicated relationship with our sense of self-esteem, self-worth, self efficacy. Like I look at where I am now and I'm just again, shook to my knees. I think to think that like, um, years ago I was in a lot of suffering because I was, I didn't trust myself.
I doubted myself all the time. Um, yeah, insecure, you know, I had a lot of childhood trauma that just made me be at war with myself constantly, constantly at war with myself, which is a very painful way to live. And it was very exhausting. And so, I see that still in a lot of people, and I want to help people know that they can, that there's a better way that they can feel more free.
And I think the relationship that we have with ourselves, you know, as they say is the most important one, but it really is because you're with yourself [00:11:00] 24 fucking seven, and let's make it a joyful experience
Kyley: You know what else
Eva: mm
Kyley: else? I'm just thinking about how, like when you're, I'm thinking about how something can shift and crack open and you can like, Love yourself deeper or understand a layer of yourself deeper and some suffering can alleviate, and you can have this sense of like, oh, I didn't know I got to feel this way. You know, we walk around and I'm sure I'll look back on me. I mean, I hope I look back on me five years from now and I'm like, oh girl, you had no idea what was po. Like, how good you could feel or whatever. And I think sometimes with something like self-love, it can feel like, yeah, I mean, I think I love myself.
Sure. And what I would speak to with you and Federico both being really trusted teachers for me, is that I [00:12:00] think that this program is a journey of like, oh, I didn't know I got to feel this good.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah,
Kyley: Because that, to me, that's the, there's an infinite opportunity of like, oh, what I could feel this much space. I could feel this much joy, I could feel this much freedom.
Um,
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: a way that I get think gets to surpri really surprise and delight us.
Eva: I mean, yes, and I think that's what I call awakening, right? It's we all, and we, and it's not just like one awakening. We all have these like different moments of awakening, but partly that's been my journey for sure of like, I mean, you just don't know what you don't know, but. I don't know. There these turning points, we were like, wow, I can have this much unconditional love for myself.
But I will say, what points to the fact? Cause what happens is I think we get complacent and we're like, oh, we're in suffering. And we're like, well this is just it. Like this is just part of life. Or, or you don't question if it could be better. I [00:13:00] would say look at, um, your interactions with people. Look at how you show up in situations where you like, have to be seen.
Look at how you move through challenges. If those places are a source of like constant triggers and suffering for you. Cuz you're like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm like, am I, you know, am I too much? Am I not enough? Like, you get into perfectionist mode when you have a big goal. You, you can just kind of tell there are these moments of friction and tension and you're just like, why is this so hard?
That's pointing to. Oh, system that's not working.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: There can be a life of real joy and ease and flow and openness and connection, and if you want to experience that more you, I do really think that it starts with knowing how to skillfully cultivate [00:14:00] a relationship with yourself.
Kyley: I'm also just reflecting right now about how much of our relationship is you actually like, I wanna say like tricking me into loving myself more.
Eva: Wait, please speak to that. I would love to know how I'm doing that.
Kyley: Well, and I say tricking because I do feel like there's this, like some like really, really big moments. Some on air, some off some. Before we had a podcast where like I have like thought that I was like, yeah, I guess I love myself in this category. And then you just like come in like the Kool-Aid man loving me and I'm like, oh, well this is what it feels like to love myself and be loved.
Eva: God. Okay. Well, okay. I think you're speaking to something important, which is that part of, I think building self love also comes in being community with other people so that we can be seen and we can be taught like how we can be loved. And so that's what good friends do, I think. And you do that for me, you [00:15:00] know, we do that for each other, I think.
Um, but what this course offers is if, like, if you don't have that or maybe it feels too vulnerable to, to, to be in that space with people who you're close with. Um, That's why we built this like really intimate community and that's why we wanted this to be a community course, because we will love on you and show you how to be loved.
And not just us, but like other people there as well. And then you'll have a chance to love other people as well. It's, it's, it's just really this beautiful reciprocal thing because again, I say this every time because I feel it so fucking strongly is that like this, all this work has to be done in community with other people.
You cannot, no one can do your work for you and you can't do it alone, right? So, yeah. Um, actually Kylie gave me the really good suggestion right before this call to be like, Hey, if you are interested in the call, I mean in this course, but you want like a little bit more information or you just wanna talk to someone to [00:16:00] see like, you know, this feels like a big investment.
I. Of time or maybe this work feels like it's gonna be a big up level and that feels a little bit, you know, a little bit scary. Um, why don't you DM me on the gram and we can set up a time to chat because I do think sometimes it's helpful just to get, um, some Yeah. FaceTime the confirmation like this is the right space for you.
Kyley: They're called self-love discovery calls, and what Eva's not telling you is that she's gonna blow your mind in 20 minutes and help you pinpoint a huge area, a singular area, where you get to like learn how to love yourself more. In 20 minutes, she will do it. She used two humbles to tell you that's what she's gonna do, but that's what she's gonna do and it's free.
So if the work that Eva puts out in the world, Resonates with you, which duh, it does. Whilst would you listen to our two hour fucking podcast each week, then run. Don't walk. Book a self-love discovery call. Have her blow your mind in 20 minutes, and then you'll feel safe and cozy and comfortable [00:17:00] signing up for her group program.
Eva: I love you. Thank you for just always being the best type woman. I wish we all had a Kylie in our corner. Um, okay. Kylie, what would you like to share with our beautiful listeners?
Kyley: Um, okay, so I have a couple things that I really, I'm really excited about. One is, um, surface announcement. Uh, the only way to work with me as a business coach is the business incubator. It's official. I have formally closed down all other spaces. The business incubator can include one-on-one coaching. So I, I am still offering that.
Um, I have a wait list for the fall. Um, Which that does feel cool to say. Okay, sorry.
Eva: that is very cool.
Kyley: I mean, part of it is because I don't wanna work in the summer, to be clear. And also I have, uh, uh, a great current roster, but, um, I do have a wait list for the fall. Um, [00:18:00] but I have a close on all the ear, other spaces where my business coaching is happening and poured everything into one spot, um, so that I can go deeper with folks.
Um, and that is the business incubator. It's six months long. It's really epic. I'm very jazzed about that. So if you have been curious about getting your business up and running in a way that feels nourishing and supportive and is rooted in self-love instead of self-critique, um, hit me up. Um, and two ways you can test drive that.
One is I have a workshop coming up on July 7th, um, which is a Friday. Um, that's called, what did I call it? Unlock your sales superpower,
Eva: Ooh, love it.
Kyley: which I'm super jazzed about, and is like specifically about looking at the myths that we all carry around what we think is required to be good at sales and actually dropping into what is actually required.
Because most people that are think they're bad at sales or [00:19:00] think that, um, that yeah, or, or, or to hate it or avoid it, um, actually just think they have a false notion. Like they have a boo, they have a sales boogeyman, right? That's like, this is what I have to be and I don't wanna be that. And that's not even true.
So, um, if you feel uncomfortable at sales and also have a business that's a tough combo. Come to my workshop, it's free. Um, and then I also have a very excellent, um, self-study mini course called Money Talks. But we're gonna yell,
um,
Eva: love.
Kyley: and uh, you can sign up for that, that's free, so you can do that on your own pace.
And that all of that is on my website, kylie calwell.com. She's got a very sexy new rebrand for those of you who are interested in that sort of thing. So, uh, take the self study course, come to the workshop. Let's, let's go.
Eva: Yeah,
Kyley: incubator. Doors open until July 16th.
Eva: Okay, let's, it's, now it's my turn to hype you up a little bit. So Kylie just coached me on sales before this whole, we started recording, and I, I [00:20:00] don't, I am, I'm not good at sales and that's a story that you could probably help me also rewrite Kylie, but it's just like, it's not my favorite thing to do.
I don't feel like I'm naturally a magician at it, but whenever I talk to you about sales, I am like jazzed Afterwards, I'm like, oh my God, this is how it gets to be done. Or, I understand the mechanics of sales. I'm like, oh, this makes sense to me. Where before it was just a big old blur and I had said to you like, you really helped me feel like sales is fun, which is a big deal when you really don't like sales.
So that's just like one thing, but your medicine really is. And this is the only fucking kind of co business coach I wanna work with. And you know this because we talk about this a lot on the, like, that's our whole thing. Like it's what we were talking about at the top of the show with the podcast. Like the only kind of business person I wanna work with is someone who helps me do things my way, where I get to be myself, where I don't have to contort and like look at like, you know, whatever.
Like what, where people are like [00:21:00] you, these are the three things that you need to do. Or like you should post once a day because blah, that's the thing. Whatever, all the, all the blah, blah,
Kyley: well, the rules, yeah.
Eva: all the rules. And it's like you allow, you give people the power and you help people actually become more free in the process.
And I think when we are free, that's when we do our best work, so,
Kyley: And if you are a spiritual seeker and entrepreneur, it's a double whammy because. You want to grow your, like your heart desire is both to grow your business and be free. So what I have observed, it's not that like with manifestation hacks, we can get really in our heads of like, oh, well I have to be grateful in order to succeed or whatever.
No. The tricky thing is that you have two very huge desires. You wanna have a business that changes the fucking world and you wanna be free. So you will, um, continue to like experience what feels like tripping because your heart is like, [00:22:00] no, no, no, we're not doing this the shitty way. Right? Because some big part of you knows like, I do get to have this and I do get to have this on my own terms.
And so it's not that you are like, the rule is you have to be high vibe. No. It's just that there's this huge hungry part of you that's like, I want the dream and I want it on my own fucking terms. Like I want to experience sovereignty and freedom and wealth and abundance. I wanna have impact that is like not icky.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And those things come into like, that's the thing, that's the tension that's always there, I think. And also
Kyley: superpower, right? It gets to be actually the door that you, when you fi, when you figure out the like key to
Eva: Well, it's the superpower. When they work with you, when you don't, when they don't, people don't have support, then it just fucking sucks, is what I'm saying.
Kyley: right? Cuz it feels like you're fighting against yourself. But actually there're these two parts of you that deeply want to like sink up and that's when you get the like rocket ship
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: Unless you don't wanna be a rocket ship and you wanna be like cozy [00:23:00] hammock vibe, whatever you want, that's what we're gonna
Eva: right. Love it. Love it. All right, y'all, so yeah, sign up for our stuff. Leave us a review. Tell us that you love us, and that would be great.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Um, okay. I'm, I'm kidding. We love you guys. Okay, let's, you ready to dive in to
Kyley: yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Eva: Where do we begin?
Kyley: I guess I could just tell the story.
Eva: Yes, please. Because you guys, this is like juicy and. Oh, actually, wait. Can we, I wanna acknowledge two things. I want to, sorry, we had to step back. Business incubator. What I didn't get to say earlier is like, congratulations also friend, because
Kyley: you.
Eva: you have talked very clearly on this podcast about how like you really just wanna simplify and like create this thing where it's, you know, you're just focused on one thing and it's cool to see you do that.
That's cool. Like, you are, you, this is one of those moments where you, where you are, where you wanted to be, you know?
Kyley: Yeah. I've been having [00:24:00] so many moments like that lately of like, oh, this is the place I wanted to be. Yes. Also, to be clear, all the stuff that I do with Liz, the Alchemy Money Healing Program, magic Circle retreat, that isn't going away, that's like, it's literally its own other business. But for business coaching, business incubator is, is is the
Eva: right, right, right. Okay. And I also just, so then, and then going back to this speech episode, um, Yeah, I just feel like you're about to let people into this big part of your life, which is really beautiful.
Kyley: yeah. I am a little bit having a moment of like, oh, I said I was gonna tell this story. Okay.
Eva: Here we go.
Kyley: Okay. So, uh, the story is, uh, it's funny also cause before we, we were talking earlier and I was like, my story, this is boring. Nobody wants the details. And it, you was like, yes, everyone wants a details. Okay. So, um, for [00:25:00] context, going back to Little Baby Kylie, um, my, I was born when my mom was 18, um, or which listeners know?
Um, some, some might know and, um, my, oh my God. No,
Eva: This is like a big story.
Kyley: Yeah. It's also a big story. It's, yeah, it's a big story and it's a big story that's like mine, but it's also my mom's and it's my dad's.
Eva: Mm. Yeah, yeah,
Kyley: So it's like, um, yeah. Hmm.
Eva: I ask what's coming up for you right now?
Kyley: So much of my childhood has had a thread of like needing to protect my mom. Cause my mom is young and just looks young, so like Right. She'd like come. Because I like, forget my lunch. And she'd come to school and kids would be like, your mom is so beautiful. Which was great. I was like, the one day people were nice to me in elementary school, but then they would also be like, [00:26:00] uh, but, but then there was always this thread of like, how old is your mom?
And it always came with like some thread of like some sting of judgment. And so I just learned really early on to be protective of her. Right. It was like, you know, um, and so I would always like lie about her age, not because I ever had hangups about her age, but because I had this really like strong sense of like, I don't wanna invite you in to have an opinion about
this. So I would just like add four years or whatever. And I had this one friend who later went on to m i t cuz they're a genius at math and was like, wait, didn't you say last time your mom Max?
Eva: Called out. I kinda love,
Kyley: Yeah. Was like, okay, well now you're my real friend so you can know. Um, uh, so yeah, so telling this story feels complicated because it feels like it's not fully [00:27:00] mine,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: So, uh, my mom was a teenager and, uh, I don't know who my biological dad is. He didn't make an appearance. He didn't, um, he didn't stick around beyond one moment in time. And, um, my dad, who is, my dad has raised me my whole life, is an incredible, incredible human being. Um, He's been in my life since I was like, I don't know.
Two, my parents got married when I was three. Um, he formally adopted me pretty soon thereafter. Um, and so I grew up with my dad, right. And my family very Catholic. Um, like the day that I was like formally adopted, which my parents called my name changing ceremony. Um, cuz I was born Kylie Kennedy. Um,
Eva: didn't know that.
Kyley: yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:28:00] yeah.
Kylie Ann Kennedy. Um, and so
Eva: Sorry, Carly and Kennedy.
Kyley: Anne Ann's
Eva: Oh, and Kennedy, okay.
Kyley: Kylie Ann Kennedy. So now I'm Kylie Anne Caldwell. But um, uh, which when I got married and people were like, you know, what were you gonna change your name? And I was like, I told my dad, I remember my dad asking me and I was like, that's a really fucking big deal to me that I'm Kylie Caldwell.
Eva: Um,
Kyley: that's an incredible like gift. Cuz the thing about my dad is that, um, He, like, he never once in my entire life have, has it ever been a, like, you're my daughter with an asterisk. You know, like, and I know, I know people I once worked with a guy who like, actually is a very similar story and he like adopted his daughter, who was his wife's daughter, you know, when she was two.
And he would tell everybody that he met like the story of like how he had adopted her, right? It
Eva: Oh, wow.
Kyley: this story that he would tell that was like, [00:29:00] you know, he's like an old older guy, whatever. But it was also just very performative and like, that doesn't exist from, that doesn't exist from my dad, right?
Like, he's just my dad, I'm his daughter. Like, that's it. End of story. Um, and um, and in addition to the fact that like, I just think my name sounds fucking cool to get to. Cool. Um, it also like is like one of the biggest blessings of my whole life that I'm Kylie Calwell, right? Because my dad just like stepped in.
Fucking chose me, right? Like chose me. And the same way that my mom did when you were a teenage mom, like she chose to be my mom, thankfully. Because, you know, that's, at least in some states still, that's
Eva: mm-hmm.
Kyley: that's the option. Um, and, um, and, and so doing like, there's a whole bunch of shit that I just didn't have to deal with as a kid, right?
But as a kid that I would've had as a single mom, right? Like all sorts of, like all sorts of things. Um, and, um, [00:30:00] anyway, all that is to say the tricky thing about it, my parents. So, okay, so the tricky thing about it is that, Some part of me also always knew, sorry. So my parents, like the, my cat, very Catholic family was like, great, Kylie's good at dad.
Now no one needs to know the, no one needs to know the quote unquote truth. Like she's good. Right. And my huge extended family, like real, who loved and loved me incredibly, like really genuinely like great. We gave her like, we gave her the upgrade story, right? And like really had this sense of taking care of me.
And, and yet I knew, I always knew that my dad was not my biological dad.
Eva: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How? Wait. What do you mean? How so how did you know? And when you say you always know, you mean like, yeah. Tell me about that.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. I've had, I once had a therapist too is also like, wait, what? Right. Because I was really young. Most, one of my [00:31:00] very first memories of my whole life is of my dad. And it was a birthday party.
And it was this memory of great delight and excitement of my dad coming over to the house. He was, he ca my, in my memory, he came from the outside in
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and when you're as opposed to like my mom and my grandparents who were the like, who were the home, right. And my dad was this like really awesome person who came over and, and that was the way my like early imprint of my dad was that I was like this like really great guy who like came in from the outside.
Eva: I'm sorry. That's just like, okay, it, I wanna take a moment to acknowledge the perceptiveness. I mean, how old were you? Like two.
Kyley: two.
Eva: And again, it's simple. It's simple to be like, oh yeah, this is the person who just comes. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like, it's not like the observation in itself is huge, but like something [00:32:00] as simple as that.
He gave you the meaning and the understanding.
Kyley: And I, but what was complicated was because my family, for reasons of like great motivation, didn't tell me. I walked around with this like really heavy burden of knowing something that I thought I shouldn't know, but I thought made me a terrible person. Right. I really carried, and to be honest, like it's still a thing that I unravel, but it was like I, like, I remember I like, I remember once me a kid, like listening to my mom and some friends, like my dad was there and they were like talking about some old high school friend and I remember thinking I, maybe that's my dad. And then immediately just feeling like you, you're a monster, right? And I'm like this like little kid sitting on the floor playing with toys, having this like existential crisis of like, you are actually who, what kid walks around doubting that their dad is their dad, right? And so it was this sense of like knowing something but then knowing being a burden.
[00:33:00] And, and knowing, being, and it, and the knowing felt like betrayal, right? Because my dad has, is like such a loving person and provided so much like genuine like care. So it felt like, like he is the complicated. He's like, he's a human, right? He isn't imperfect, but it was like a great, and, and that who am I to?
Like, like who am I to doubt my own day? Right? It just felt like, um, it felt like betrayal, right? And so the knowing of something, but, but knowing it in this like vague nebulous way,
Eva: My God, that is just like, uh, I, I, I mean, I think I'm just actually impressed with how you held all of this without necessarily having the language for it even, you know what I mean?
Kyley: yeah, yeah. I know. Sometimes I'm like, oh man, you're impressive for not being more fucked up. Maybe also like, it's a classic example of like everybody doing their fucking best,
right.
Eva: With the, all the best intentions.
Kyley: All the best intentions. Right,[00:34:00]
Eva: Sorry, let me, let me interrupt. Because, because what had happened was like your family had decided to not formally tell you. Is that
Kyley: exactly. Exactly. It was like instead of my adoption day, it was like my name changing day. Um, and yeah,
and, and, I think I also sometimes, because I also knew and didn't want to know knowing, it was a knowing that I didn't want to know. There were also times I think I didn't ask questions. Like I was like, yep.
Name changing day. That makes sense.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Right. And didn't ask like, you know, because I think I also didn't want, you know, I also didn't wanna
Eva: Yeah. You didn't wanna know, didn't wanna rock the boat, you know? Yeah. Get it. I totally get it. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Um, so fast forward, I'm in middle school. My parents sit me down with our family therapist and they're like, we have this like, big thing to tell you.
And I was like, oh, thanks fucking God. Right? And it was just like so much relief because I was like, oh, I am no longer a terrible person. I actually just knew all along, cuz I'm actually really smart. Okay, great. Love you [00:35:00] dad. Thanks
Pat on the
Eva: wait, wait, wait. wait. Hold on. Oh my God. That is okay. Wait, so cuz this was probably a big deal for your parents,
Kyley: Oh my
Eva: They were probably, they cuz they had, they had no idea that you knew and so that they set up this therapy thing. Wow.
Kyley: and like my aunt who I'm very close to had like taken the day off of work the next day to be like in the wings, ready to console me. And I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm totally fine. Cuz I just felt, first of all, so much relief.
Eva: did you tell this, did you explain this to them?
Kyley: I di I didn't, I, it's only like years later that I could understand how I, at the time I was just like, oh, I've always known.
I, I
Eva: But did you, did you say that?
Kyley: And I did at the time. I was like, yeah, I, I actually have always suspected this so great. You know? Um, and so it was like just this huge sense of relief. Um, that distinction about like, my dad being someone who came from the outside. It was only much later that I was able to like put the, like, explain that.
At the time I just was like, no, I've always known. Um, or I've always suspected and yeah. And then they were, everyone was like, well, like, basically they were like waiting for me to fall [00:36:00] apart. And I was like very invested in like, no, I am fine. Like a, cuz I felt relief, but b because I was like, this changes nothing.
And it was really important to me that the story was like, this changes nothing.
Right. Because it was like, I love my family, I love my dad's dad. Like, we're good. We're good, we're good. We're really, really good. La la la. Nothing to
Eva: also with the best of intentions and all this love, you know? And, sorry, can I ask, so then where was your brother in this? Was he, did he know
Kyley: Yeah, my parents totally fucked up and didn't tell my brother until like, much later. And like, like as like an offhand like, oh, by the way, didn't, you know?
Eva: Oh, my, okay. Oh, so you guys didn't go together cuz you were
Kyley: No. Cause I, I don't think that would I, that I don't think would've been because I needed to have, be able to have my
Eva: okay. Right, right. Wow, okay. Anyway, yeah, so that's a whole nother story.
Got
Kyley: was in elementary school. Yeah,
Eva: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: Um, uh, it was like, almost like, it was like such a big thing for me that they were like, oh yeah, what he [00:37:00] did see what he, yeah,
Eva: Oh my God, that is hilarious. If, yeah, if your brother was on this show, I had interview him, ask him some other questions, but, but I wanna get to Yes, let's keep going.
Kyley: yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, um, you know, and so this has been a thing that like I have known but also have had like, Tremendous dissociation from, right? So there's like this like kind of central wound that's also not a wound, right? Because it's like, I have this abandonment wound, I have this like central wounding about like, uh, father while also having a really great father, right?
And so, um, many, many times in my kind of journey of evolution, I've had these moments where I'm like, what is the thing under this thing? And like, you get down to like the kernel, you know, those moments. You like, get to the kernel, you get to the essence and you're, and I would be like abandonment. I'm not afraid of being alone like so many times that I would get down to the bottom of the well and I would be like alone again, [00:38:00] weird.
Eva: like, why is this living? That doesn't
make any sense.
Kyley: that's how deep the disassociation was, that I was like, genuinely confused that like, abandonment and alone was this like cornerstone wound. Um, and I like had, like, I had done like some amount of processing for sure. Like I had a great therapist when I was like in my like, you know, like graduating from college when a lot of this came up for me, that was like a point chapter in my life.
So it's like not, it's not a like, it's a, and it's a story that I've told, right? But it's a, you can intellectually connect to something which is totally different than like emotionally drop in to the
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: tender place. So that's the backstory for everybody.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: And last May, so a year ago, um, I am checking my email before client call and, uh, do you have any other questions about the backstory?
Shit before I go into the
Eva: Um, let me think. Do I listeners, sorry if you have questions out there and I'm not like, [00:39:00] you know, I'm not perceiving them cause I'm like, I think I'm good. But, um, I will say though. Okay. Okay. Speaking about, um, I guess it's, so I just wanna give some context. So this was last May, what you're about to share and last May, so last May, a year ago, by that time, you and I were already best buds, and I did not know this about you until a year ago.
And so you were talking about like the disassociation thing, like you like dropped it to me like in a voice message and I was just like, wait, what? Like I really had to go back and listen. Cause I was like, wait, what? You were telling me about your dad's stuff? And I was like, Kylie, I didn't know this about you.
Like this is a big thing. And you're like, yeah. Like understandably though. Because that's the weird thing is like, you were actually fine. You know, it's not like this was this big wound that was like making you unfunctional in the world. Um,
Kyley: Yeah, cuz I was so disassociated from
Eva: yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Kyley: it, like belonged to [00:40:00] another human, you know?
Eva: Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's how it was.
I mean, it's just, yeah, it was like me understanding in that moment, like, oh, this is a big deal.
Kyley: Yes. Uh, yeah. A thousand percent that, and that was, um, because, and, and, and all, and this is what's, what's beautiful and complicated, right? Is that it also was a thing that like this is what's so beautiful and complex, right? Because it is also a thing that in some ways also doesn't matter, right? It both are true at the exact same time.
Like some of the reasons why I have spent many years disassociating from it is cuz like, I have a great family and I have always had this like nuclear, you know, we're all fucked up in great ways, but I have had this experience of family and so it's this thing that like, like crack, like it's been this like tender place waiting for my attention.
And also at the exact same time I have been fine, which is, it's o which is actually like a layer of what has caused the pain and frustration and confusion is because it's, it's been this confusion of [00:41:00] like, how do I experience not fine at the exact same time that everything also is fine. And, and I, and I actually think that this is something that like a lot of people with adoption stories in general experience, um, I, I don't know actually listeners do know.
I would be interested to hear. I don't know a lot of people with this. Like I'm sure I'm not the only one, but with this particular kind of like, like I once once said to someone, I was like, well, I'm half adopted. And they're like, what the fuck does that mean?
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: You know? No.
Eva: Uhhuh.
Kyley: Um, but like in secret, so anyway, which is also, okay, sorry.
Also fascinating if you wanna like link into ancestry, because I'm Irish and there's a lot of like by ancestry and there's a long legacy of like teenage moms, like the Catholic church would basically like send, take these unwed mothers into like these homes and then they would separate these unwed mothers from the children and they would like, like sell the children [00:42:00] into adoption and like whether the women wanted it or not and often didn't want it.
And so there's like, actually some really interesting public discourse has been happening in Ireland over the past, you know, decade or so about this like, incredible trauma that happened over generations of women being separated from their, from their children. And there's some really cool movies about it too.
So it's also interesting just thinking about like Ancestry and how like this is a story that
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: runs through my D N A.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: Speaking of D n A, so this is, this is brings us to the, to a year ago, um, I, um, I had signed up for 20 23andme that like d n a ancestry thing, lifetimes ago, well over a decade ago in part cuz I was like, even like filling up medical forms is a pain in the ass cuz it's like, do you have heart conditions in your family?
And I'm like, well, I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. Yeah. Um, uh, and so part of me was like, my intellectual thing was like, well [00:43:00] it would be helpful to have like this information, but the truth is emotionally, I was like, maybe I'll find out, maybe, maybe my, maybe my biological father just like filled this information out.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, you're really speaking to just like, you know, things that I, I, I take for granted, you know? Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
And, and it's weird. It's weird having like filling out. Forms at the doctor's office be this kind of like emotional quandary of like, do I tell my doctor? Is it relevant? Do I wanna have that conversation? Does it matter? Right? Like, it's just, it's just interesting how it's like, like it's like just like a checklist I have to kind of run through for myself of like, do I, is it like, do I wanna have the conversation now or
Eva: totally. And this is like, yeah. And it's like, yes, and, and I don't know, it just reminds me of conversation of privilege where like it's a privilege that many of us don't have to navigate that. Whereas like going to the doctor is like, I don't even [00:44:00] think about it. You know, like I simple and then, but this is just a thing that even I, as subtle as it may be, it's still a psychol takes a psychological toll.
Kyley: And I think that is a really good example of like that that is exactly the deal with our privilege, right? It's like we literally like, that's the trick of it, right? It's like we literally don't even see it. And I think for the places where we carry extra burden, I think we also don't, we also take those for granted cuz it's also just like the way we navigate the world and so we can tend to not be compassionate with ourselves about them.
Like, I've noticed that, cuz now when I'm sitting at a doctor's form, I'm like, I just have a little, a little extra space for like, this is complicated emotionally. Like, and, and I can just like feel how, how quick it is for me to want to return to fine, you know?
Eva: And that's, sorry, just a self, just a plug for the self-love piece, you know, like this course, like Yeah. That's kinda what we were talking about before. It's like, uh, [00:45:00] things that we take for, like, even our suffering we take for granted and we're like, oh, this is just like how it is. But, or what I'm hearing you say is like, this process has allowed you to just also be like, yeah, this is.
I'm feeling things and it's okay to feel them and let me like be with them instead of like tuck 'em away.
Kyley: Well and you know what I actually, I will say is it's less of I am feeling things because the history for me of this is like, I am fine. It's more about like making space if I wanted to feel something, so like at the doctor's form, for example, is something that's more about like, Hey, you might have feelings here.
Let's just like open the door.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Because most of my experience with this is that it's like packed in so tight and compact that I, even if I'm feeling something, I don't know that I'm feeling it.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Kyley: and so, so, so, okay, d n A ancestry, I'm like 20 minutes outside of a [00:46:00] client call. I check my email and I see this email from 23 of me.
That's like, you have, you have new relatives, which if anyone's done those, like you get those emails all the time, you get like, you know, Susie, 17th cousin, you know, and
Eva: Do you? That's so interesting because I've never taken that test, but yeah, that's interesting. Okay.
Kyley: Also side note, I did crack up when I took the test because I was like, maybe I'll like have some cool ancestry, right? Like, I don't know, it's, no, I am, this bitch is a hundred percent Irish American, which I find like fills me with great delight. Um, so anyway, I fill out the, I, you know, I check the email, still not thinking anything of it, although there is still some, there is in this moment, some part of me like, oh, I wonder if I will find information. Right? And it says you have an uncle and it is not one of my uncles that I know and love it is a new uncle.
Uh, and what [00:47:00] happened in that moment was the floor fell up from underneath me. It was like all of the years of disassociating, all of the years of fine, all of the years of like. Just not connecting to this. Just like, like got pulled away in an instant. And something about that message just like literally cracked me open in the most, I never would've expected that.
And also it was like, it just literally gutted me and I was like, and I, I had to message a client. I was like, like, this is how intense it was. Right. Which makes sense because it was like literally like decades of unfelt things, right. Came like roaring in, I messaged my client and was like, I cannot meet. I, I know circumstances, can I meet with you?
But I, even as I'm doing this, I'm still having this like, like waffling thing of like, but I'm fine, right? Like, [00:48:00] is is this happening? Am I, am
Eva: and I, and I can confirm by the way, friends, because that's the thing, when you dropped me that message, like you were like, I. Calm about it, which was made me be like, wait, like a record. Cause that's why I was like, wait, I don't know how I'm supposed to respond. Because I'm like, Kylie, this is a big deal.
And then also sim simultaneously, I could see you like navigating, being like, let's take this information in. Like, and also this is, you know, like, like, yeah. Just trying to navigate like, let's, I'm, IM cool, but I'm also taking this information in. And also this is a big deal.
Kyley: And also like I could feel, it was like, it was like the facade of the me who's like, no, no, no, we're always fine with this. Right? Because it was like 38 years of like, we are fine with this. Right? Was like still there, but all of a sudden the like whole, like the whole like, you know, um, stage had fallen apart behind her, right?
So she's still up there like doing her like song and dance performance and like, we are fine. Look at us tossing the baton in the air, our skirt clips. And meanwhile, like behind her, the whole orchestra is like [00:49:00] collapsed,
Eva: minor notes. Yeah. Oh, oh my God. I love that. I, sorry. That's a great analogy. By the way, can I just, I just wanna insert really quickly for context, cuz it took me a second to understand this. Like, the significance of you finding out that you had a brother, is that, that, sorry, that you had an uncle?
Is that, that is a very close blood relative to your biological dad,
Kyley: Right, exactly. Uncle is like not cousin, right? A cousin is like, I don't know. Who knows how Wait. An uncle is like, what? What happened in that moment is a couple things. One is like an uncle is the kind of relative that's fucking real, right? An uncle is the kind of relative that's like this part of you doesn't not exist, right?
This part of you exists. There's a person out there could be dead. They could be dead, but there's a person out there that like is your d n a, and they have a brother, and if you wanted to, you now have a name, and if you wanted to, you could go fucking find out who they are and knock on their door. [00:50:00] Which has been another thing.
We didn't talk about this part yet, but that is also,
Eva: is that true? Because you got your uncle's name. Did you get your bio dad's name
Kyley: I ha I, so I haven't yet, that's a whole thing that I probably, this podcast recording is now tipping me into like, Hey, what if we made a decision about that? Huh. Huh. Um, but, uh, for years that's been like a, that was, so in my early twenties, that was like a big part of the journey for me was like, do I wanna find out?
Right. And my, and my family was like, we could hire a private investigator. Right? And like, for context, this person did not behave well. All signs point to at least the version of them that existed 38 years ago. Pretty scummy. Right? Um, which also adds to layer to the complication. But, um, but you know, my family was like, you know, if you, if this is important to you, like we could hire, hire a private investigator.
Like we can, like do what we can to try to like find this person. And at the [00:51:00] time it felt really clear to me that it would hurt my dad, you know, who would really want to be okay with it. And also it just felt really clear, like it would hurt him. And, and, and at that moment it didn't feel like a choice I wanted to make.
Right. That was like, especially because I had such a great wall up of its fine, that it just felt like, you know, yes, this is big. And also, I, I don't wanna do a thing that I, that will hurt somebody, even though my dad would also be able to understand that it wa it wasn't about him. It also, I just know it would fucking hurt.
Right? Especially at that moment, um, it felt like it would hurt. And so I decided then to kind of like package the whole thing up. It was like one of those moments that was like, like a fork in the road and I decided to kind of like pack everything back in. And so,
Eva: Wait, I'm sorry. Can I interject with a question, and we can cut this out [00:52:00] if, if, if, if we want to, but did you tell your mom,
Kyley: Did I tell my mom when I decided not to
Eva: did you tell your mom that you took this 23 meeting and that you could found out that, that
Kyley: Oh, yes. So we can have that convers. We can, we can, yeah. That I did tell my mom. I, I told her years ago, but I'd done 23 and me and my mom and I, um, she actually came to visit me a couple weeks after the floor. The, the floor fell out, um, from underneath me, and we had a really, really, really, really, really incredible conversation.
We, my mom is,
Eva: Yeah. Your mom's the best.
Kyley: my mom is the best, and my mom is someone who's not afraid of her own gremlins and has like, like waded into the fire about these things, and also has an incredible capacity to like go to the scary places if it's what her kids need her to do, which is pretty fucking great. Um, and so she came to visit a couple weeks after.
And actually that was funny because we were like sitting outside by the fire and I was like, okay, I gotta tell you something. Cause I didn't call her cause I knew she was [00:53:00] coming to visit. So I was like, I'm just gonna wait and we'll have this conversation in person. And I was like, I gotta tell you something.
And I told her like, I found, like I got this email. I found like I have the person's name, they're an uncle. Um, and my mom's first reaction and I was like, you know, I was telling her like this, I have something to say and it might be upsetting. And my mom's first reaction was like, That doesn't, like, why would I be upset about that?
This is like, this is you and this is your story. And I remember like clocking like, okay, give her 15 minutes. And, and then we were both just like sobbing, right? And like, she's like processing all this stuff about it. And I'm, and we had this like real, the whole weekend was us just like being sad and crying and loving each other and it was really, really, really, really beautiful.
Um, but it was funny cuz it's like that has also been her, her way, right? Is like, like there's nothing here. Like, we like put that all on the box. We put it back on the shelf and like, you know, and um, and [00:54:00] um, and it, what happened in that moment for me when I got this email, which again, listeners might be like, well that's a small thing.
Why is this a thing that ripped, cratered everything? And I, I think it's cuz I was ready for it to crater.
Eva: yeah. Yes,
Kyley: know?
Eva: yes, yes. Okay. Cuz you had said something earlier about how like you were fine, but also you had packed it away. And what I had seen was that you had done all of this, like spiritual growth, like you had just evolved to a place of like, I had just witnessed you. Up leveling to this bigger version of you.
Like I've, you know, you continue to do that every, you know, every year and it's like amazing to watch. And so it was suddenly like, my perception of it was like, oh, it's coming in now. Yeah. Because you can handle it and you're ready. You, and there's [00:55:00] something here for you.
Kyley: And I wanted, like the bigger version of me wanted to not carry this like wild disassociation from my innermost wound. Right.
Eva: Yeah. But isn't that just like the, I mean, so, you know, let's talk about, you know, people then the, the thing that people say of like, life happens for you. I, I just think, I think that it's that, and also there's this curious thing that happens where the universe is like, it's like what can our nervous system handle actually is kind of like, it's like, it's like the universe or the, but it's also like nervous system.
It's like, hey, you're. Your future self knows that you are capable of being this kind of amazing person. But in order to do that, so it's almost like your future self calling this in being like, okay, and in order to like do that, we need to get more free. So how do we get more free? We gotta bring in the thing that's not, that's causing you not to be free.
Kyley: One of the things I will also speak to is [00:56:00] like when you set an intention, right? When you have an intention that's like really heart-centered desire and you either speak it or acknowledge it and you like set your intention. The universe instantly reorders itself to make your, in to like create, create what you have intended.
But sometimes the path is like, great, here's all the shit that like can't come with you. You know, here's all the places where you're unfree, unfree, and um,
Eva: Uh, yeah. Here's all the shit that can't come with you. Yep.
Kyley: yeah. And like, and so it can feel like I've asked for something and I got punished, right? Or it can feel like I started to uplevel and then I made all these mistakes.
Or it can feel like, people call it self sabotage, right? And I think often what is happening is that the universe is like, yes, of course you asked for something like the here's here it is, right? And this is the short,
Eva: And I love you. Yeah. It's not a
Kyley: fucking love
Eva: it's not a punishment. It is like, yeah, it's, but, but, [00:57:00] and I, but I think part like, so it's like when we meet the universe, halfway, the universe does this thing, and I think our part is like, how are we gonna choose to respond to this? If you, if you had responded to this as like a Yeah, I'm like, I'm being punished and stuck in maybe like victim consciousness, then it, it, it, it, it would just have been a lot harder and also probably taken a lot longer to move through.
Kyley: Well, and I think, I think the more tempting thing for me was to like keep pulling back on the veil of I'm fine. Right? Like, I think a lot about the moment where I emailed my client to be like, I, I can't have a call right now. And I actually ended up listeners, it took an entire week off of work. I like, I was, this is how much this like, like.
Cratered things for me was that I was not in a position to hold space for any of my clients. I had to message every single one of them and was like, uh, I, I I I I, I have to be sad [00:58:00] this week.
Eva: Yeah. And good for you for doing that, by
Kyley: Yeah, yeah.
Eva: Well, I mean, that's a, that's a way in which you didn't pack it away. That's a way in which you were like, uh, well, also it was probably like your body was like, I can't do it. But you honored that,
Kyley: But Right. Cuz I, I think a lot about how, like if I, if that initial client, if I had been like, oh yeah, I'll just have this client call and then I'll be sad afterwards. Or if I had had all my other client stuff and like tried to like, be sad in the margins. I don't think I, I, I don't think I, I would've been as transformed by the experience, right?
Like, I think that I like, and what, and also to be clear, so what basically transformed was I had this week. I had one week where I was like, I, I can't have calls and. And I messaged Eva in the middle of it. Yeah. In this like weird state where I was like, I'm watching a Marvel movie. I'm so sad. I have no words.
Cause I basically, some part of me was like six months old, you know? Like, I had like, [00:59:00] like really was in this. Like I have no words, there's nothing to talk about, but I also can't really talk. And all I can do is watch like sad movies and, uh, or not sad, like watch movies and be sad and like lay on the couch, you know?
Um, but then from that place, and, and the other thing that was, was profound was that the sadness was because it was this grief of like a six month old, it didn't have language, so there was no fucking story to pro. Right. Which was also made it tempting to be like, I'm fine, I'm fine. Because there's no, like, it just was like this well of grief that had been waiting to be witnessed for my entire life.
That's what it was.
Eva: And you just had to feel it instead of intellectualize it. Cuz like, cuz because that's the other tricky thing when we can't intellectualize it. I think for me, I could easily see my, see myself making it small by being like, well, I can't explain it. Or there's or [01:00:00] there's no like verbalization for
Kyley: be sad. I shouldn't be this upset by it. I've always already known this, so why is it so?
Eva: So I mean, that's a big deal. Like to be able to, not intellectually, you know, Justify it in some way and just to have to feel your feelings I think is like big ups to you. Cuz like that is you showing up for yourself in a big way. Cuz that's hard. We always feel like we need to justify why we feel sad.
Kyley: and I also think I can see it now as like, what an incredible blessing my grief was because it was in a work. I was teaching a workshop last weekend. It was a cacao ceremony, so everybody was crying and then they kept apologizing for crying. I was like, That's the cacao, that's what she does.
Eva: Uhhuh,
Kyley: But also, I was like, what?
Like my grief was so huge that it wouldn't it, like, it wouldn't let me not give it space. [01:01:00] Right. And like, and so my, in addition to that, like my whole business, just like basically fucking stop working for the month for like the next three months. Right? And which was when you're a business coach in a world where people sell their credibility as business coaches by how much money they make, right?
Like you, the, the, the, the rage and the like fear of what I was losing and the self-loathing. Like, it was like, it was like the universe fucking conspired for like, oh, you wanna be a big deal. Oh, you wanna love yourself in like wild and unknown ways. Here, here, giddy up.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Right? And it was like this three month crucible of like, like, here's like your, the deepest unfelt, the deepest grief, unwitnessed, grief of your life that's just been sitting in your body for 38 years and like stacked up on top of that, right?
Of all these times, of all these ways that I needed to be fine. I needed to be fine. I needed to be [01:02:00] fine. And, and then also all the ways in which I had patched over my abandonment wound with, see how good I am, see how hard I work, see how smart I am, see how good I am at making money. See how good I am at making people happy, right?
And so all of those things just stopped working. So it was like, um, it was like rehab, right? It was like, oh, are you a like validation, a addict,
Eva: Yeah. You had to go into Yeah. Detox.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. It was like total detox of like, oh, isn't it nice? Doesn't, haven't you used making money as like this really great crutch for like proving that you can do competent things and therefore are safe even though people might abandon you.
Great. Well now you don't have what
Eva: Or that you're lovable. Oh my God. Damn girl. Holy shit. Like you had not explained it to me in this way, but that's a big old whammy right there. Yeah. You couldn't, you couldn't go back to all your tools. Not, not even that. They're not, you couldn't go back to all your false,
Kyley: coping mechanisms and crutches [01:03:00] and Yeah. And then I was just fucking pissed. Cause I was like, what is happen? And, and I did, I did have so many moments of like, I had so much pity party. I had so much like why is this happen? But I like, I will not pretend that I was just
Eva: Well, which is also valid by the way. Like I, I don't mean to make it seem like that's not okay. It's all okay.
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And there were also moments, like I have this one memory that I, uh, like highlight reel at the end of my life is this day. I know. And it was this moment where I was reading this book and my kids were playing and like coloring outside and my heart was just like, felt shattered. And I was like, it was so raw.
All I could do was feel it, but also I had the capacity to feel it. And so I was just like gutted in grief and the sun was warm and I was reading this book and my kids were coloring and it, and I was like, it, this transcendent experience of my grief and love just being the ex a grief and loving the exact same thing.
When I say that on the show, it's, it's that, it's [01:04:00] always that moment that I'm feeling. I was just like, um, it was one of the most transcendent moments of my life that happened because of this. Just like, you know, um, yeah, just being like turned inside out, you know?
Eva: Yeah. And it, so, and you got to like experience it and know it not just on an intellectual level. Like the way that you speak about it it like Yes, exactly. It totally dropped in like, you got it. You know?
Kyley: yeah, yeah. Exactly. And, and then that changed everything, right? Because then, then my body knows that. So even, even when I forget it, some part of my body always knows like, no, but grief is love, right? Like grief is home. Um, and, and you know, I think this moment for me too, like this, this experience of those, those months is like, you know, when I speak sometimes I talk about rag and rock.
I talk about like things ta like tower card moments.
Like I was so, it was like such, it was so [01:05:00] hard. And I also at the timer, remember feeling like I've already done so many fucking hard things, right? I've already gone into these dark, scary places. So many, I don't want another one, right? Like, I like, haven't I? I remember having this feeling too of like, haven't I already proven that I know how to go into scary places?
Like, can't I have, like, can't I be good? Can't we be done on this test?
Eva: Which, which by the way, cuz like I'm happy to hear you say that cause I feel like those remind me of my like, eat, pray, love moments. So, so for podcast listeners, if you don't know, I feel like that's a euphemism now for the moment where, How would you explain it? It's like, I guess the, the hard moments.
Like, you, you go, you change your life and you do, you think you're doing all these good things and then you're like, isn't it supposed to be great now? Like, you're just supposed to, like, it's supposed to work out and then, and then I'll call you being upset or with something because something's really hard.
And um, and I'm like, I thought it was gonna be like, eat, pray, love. I thought my life was gonna be on eat, pray, love, and I'm gonna go on this like wild adventure and everything's gonna be great. And you're like, no, [01:06:00] but eat, pray, love is like this whole, the whole thing is this woman falling apart and like, having really hard moments and,
Kyley: Right?
Eva: and also like, I get to be, it's so human, I think, to be like, I don't want this, fuck this. Like, and you know why? Just all of the feelings, I guess.
Kyley: also you get to be on an adventure that's like the time of your life while you're fucking falling apart.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: You get to have like this, like one of the most beautiful transcendent afternoons of your life while you actually feel sadder than you can ever remember. Feeling sad, you know, like that. Our tidiness is not required to feel good.
Eva: Yeah. And also I think our life gets bigger when we can hold the contradiction, when we can hold space for both and at the same fucking time. Like that is, I think, a complex thing to do, but it's also closer to the truth of our reality. So if we [01:07:00] can do that, it just feels like that's a, that's like the full life experience.
Yeah. Rather than what you're saying, this idea of it being tidy.
Kyley: Which, and I also think that, I also think this is what we're really hungry for, right? We're hungry to be alive, which includes like alive is like grief and heartbreak and fear and,
Eva: Be and beauty and wonder and all of it mixed together. Yeah. And con and the unknown, you know, like the unknown is also like, you're very alive in the unknown, right? Cause you're out of routine and complacency.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think alive is even like, things like anxiety and depression and like the kind of buffering things. Like, that's also a lot, you know, like I, that's something that I sometimes would be like, oh, I'm not doing it right cuz I'm anxious, and it's like, it's just like a fucking flavor,
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Kyley: Yeah. So, uh, the, the, the story took has taken longer than I like fully expected it to take. But I guess maybe [01:08:00] that's
Eva: No, I mean this, this totally makes sense to me because like, it's silly that I thought, anyway, yeah, this, this is this, this makes sense. I remember thinking like when we talked about what do we wanna talk on this show, talk about, on the show, it was like, no, this deserves its own episode. Like this is a big deal.
Kyley: Yeah. It's funny because I think I, yeah, I can, and, and it's interesting how I am watching, even like, I've shared a lot of things on the podcast and I can feel how much, even just a minute ago I was like, maybe this is a bad one. Maybe we don't release this one.
Eva: Oh, wait, wait. Can you, can you speak to that more like why,
Kyley: Yeah, I mean,
Eva: I'm like, I'm like on the fucking seat of my, what is it? The edge of my seat here. I'm like, oh, this is so juicy. Like this is so
Kyley: which is so interesting, right? Because like, okay, I'm, I'm gonna, I think I can feel, I'm gonna intellectualize this for a moment, but like, what do you want in abandonment other than to be like seen and chosen, right? And so, like, my, I, my center, my center most desire is to [01:09:00] like be seen and chosen right? And taken care of. And also it's the thing that I'm fucking terrified of, right? Because we are, we are so scared of the thing that we are most hungry for, right? Because I am still learning that it is safe to be chosen and taken care of and loved, right? Which, like, within the context of being someone who's been married for 20 years to like the most incredible like human on earth, right?
And. And also like I am still learning in the bones of my body that it's like safe to be loved or that love is unconditional. That I think is really the big thing for me is like, no, but love is like, love is not full of conditions. Right? Because, um, you know, I think I created these stories, so it was like, oh, well, okay, you like, you got left so we'll again, subconscious, like, so we'll just make ourselves like perfect and then, and then we'll be in control and then [01:10:00] we won't get left.
Right. That, that, that must have happened for a reason. You're the reason. So we'll just fix you and perfect you and then you'll be safe. Right. Um, I forget where I was like going with this, about sh Anyways, I guess the point is like, there's a part of me that is so driven to be seen. Like I, right? Like there's a part of me that is like, yes,
Eva: Oh, no, we were talking about why you th well, why you think this episode was isn't interesting or
Kyley: Yeah. Like, yes. See the story like yes, of course. Like please choose me. Please follow me on Instagram. Please love my story. Please like see that I am worthy. And, um, I'm terrified of that,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: right? And I'm terrified to like try and then not get it right. And, and you know, obviously like I do the scary thing, but also I can feel how much there's a part of me that's like, no, but if we just don't put this out, that we don't have to find out that everyone was like, oh my fucking [01:11:00] God.
She talked for 90 minutes about her boring dad shit.
Eva: right. Right. And so, yeah, I mean, and that's just like part of the process. It's like we talked, yeah, you see it, you see the story and you just give it space. It's a lot to be there, you know? And also, but then what's like the most exp expansive, like, you know, we already know. I, I already know that, you know, the answer is like, cuz just the way that you're talking about is like, the answer is not to not share the podcast.
You know what I mean? The answer is like, um, this is almost like a, the, another just small opening, you know, in another way.
Kyley: Well, and I think too, going back to what you were saying about like, feelings being like not logical or, or feelings not being tied to language is like, there isn't even a part of me that's like, like if we, when we put out the show, if like nobody listens to, I want, I'm, I'm not even like, there's no part of me that's even interested in checking the stats.
It's, so that's what's interesting, [01:12:00] right? Is like I don't have some something of like, like. I'm like, I'm not afraid. I, I, the fear doesn't even, isn't, there's not even an outcome that I'm afraid of. Right. I'm not actually afraid of, like, no one will listen or no one will like it. And yet I am terrified to like, let it exist in the world, you know?
Eva: Yeah, and I mean, so. Yeah. And I think what I mean is like, yes there, and I know that you know yourself and your nervous system to like respond to that in whatever, you know, in, in healthy, helpful ways if needed. But I think part of the medicine is being like, oh, I'm afraid to let this exist and let me let this exist and hold space for it and for all, like the discomfort that comes with that.
Kyley: Yeah. Well, it helps to have like a best pal
Eva: Well I'm
Kyley: conditional love. Right. But meaning like, this would be very hard for me to like write as a post. Right. That [01:13:00] would feel very like,
Eva: Well that's gonna be really, yeah. That's very interesting because now that I know that this is your pattern, uh, for around this story about being like, even, okay, even this, the fact that we were like, and that was my bad, like my instinct was like, if we just talked about your story, that is like the most interesting episode.
We're gonna like end season three with a fucking bang. And also it's. Like, I had a feeling that it was gonna take up the whole episode and I was like, we should just lead with that. But the fact that, you know, we had this misguided thought of like, and also we can fit in like some other stuff too, is just silly.
And it's, anyway, so like now that I know that your pattern is like, oh well, you know, maybe this isn't that interesting or whatever. I like wanna sh like, shout this episode from the rooftops. Cause I'm like, this is so fascinating and it's gonna be, I wanna see how you respond to sharing
Kyley: can, I can like already feel all of this stuff getting like, like kicked up. Like all these like, uh, little gremlins that were like asleep in the dust, they're like, oh, are we, are we,
are we having a moment? [01:14:00] Is it our, is our turn to come and dance? So, um, yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. It, yeah, it's just interesting how much it feels indulgent is really the, is actually the thing that comes up for me a lot around this story is like, like I,
Eva: And yeah. And as you've taught me, like, be fucking indulgent. You know what I mean? Like, like I, I had this whole thing not that long ago where I was like, oh, I feel like I'm being, what was it, the character that you had me adopt where I was like, she's not condescending, but she's like, oh, uh,
Kyley: was it
Eva: uh, not,
Kyley: It was like a, it was like about being full of yourself. What was the word?
Eva: not privileged entitled, I had this, I had this fear of being entitled and you were just like, be entitled.
Like, what is that entitled person like? And I'm like, you know, right back at you. Like go and be, what did you say? Indulgent? And I was like,[01:15:00]
Kyley: Int like self-indulgent, like, kinda like naval gazing, self-indulgent.
Eva: Yeah. And I'm like, be self-indulgent.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: But, um, and just as a reminder that the only reason. We are having this conversation now. It's because future self, you wanted it and you're ready for it. Do you know what I mean? For it to be public on the podcast in this bigger way.
Kyley: yeah. Which, because right, that, that's the other part of it that's like, oh my God, you're telling a story that's a year old. Right. Because I was not like, it, I, I was, it was, it was, first of all, it was like way too vulnerable, right? I mean, and like, I haven't hidden, right? I have like referred, I've written emails about like, my business having a, like, adventure crisis past summer.
Um, but this story, you know, one of the conversations we had early on before we started the podcast was like, What's the, what is, what is is vulnerable that has boundaries? Like what is the way that you tell stories [01:16:00] vulnerably that also is like safe, right? And like Brene Brown talks about this, right? And it, and, and it was like very much a story that was like not ready.
And it's interesting how the telling of it I can feel is its own medicine. But, uh, I guess what I'm trying to offer is like, if you are someone who's like, got big shit swimming, like it gets to fucking take time.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: You know? It gets to be like the, this long process cuz like the acute moment of this was definitely like May through August and then, but, and then like the, the rest of the year has still been a like, real journey around like, What if you let yourself experience how loved you are and like, oh, it's, you know, it's still been the theme, but it hasn't been acute.
It hasn't been like, you know, the everything's on fire moment that it was
Eva: Yeah. Well also though, [01:17:00] like what is time? Cause you're like, you're saying. I has to take time implying that it's taken a long time, but I'm like that the, the story you told me feels like fucking yesterday. Like, you know, like, it's such, it's been such a short time. If anything, I'm also feeling like, oh, this so much has happened in a year and I feel like you've,
Kyley: Well, right. But because so much of my ca my like protective conditioning around this is, it's fine that the moment it's no longer an acute crisis, it feels like, but it, it's fine. So like who, like, like who are you to tell a story that's so many months old? Because like, it's fine now. Right? And again, I'm self-aware of this, but it's like just so much of the,
Eva: Interesting. Yeah.
Kyley: is like, That is old.
Like that is old news. Like that has always been my own internalized thing is like, that is old news. Like you have a dad that is old news, right? Like you are an adult now that is old news. Like you've already processed it because you were sad for a summer. Like that is old news. Um, and so I think, I wanna [01:18:00] say like, it gets to take time, meaning whatever.
It gets to be a big deal even when it's no longer a big deal, right? Like grief with grief all the time, right? Like someone that you love dies in the first like couple of months,
Eva: It's like it's acceptable to be crying and
Kyley: and then two years later or 10 years later, you're still fucking sad. Of course you're still fucking sad, right? And it gets to be, it gets to be a thing that's still alive for you, even if it's decades old.
Eva: yeah. And let it take all the time that it wants, which might be I. Forever, you know, especially with grief. Like, you know, especially like with the death of somebody. Like, yeah, why wouldn't you be sad? Because you love this person. Grief is love, you love them. It's just an expression of love. So you will have some homework though, because this episode is coming out on Wednesday, which means Wednesday baby girl, it's time for you to write a post when you share like, Hey folks, we have a top 10% podcast.
Almost. We have a top 11% podcast and we're closing this out with a bang.
Kyley: That's right. Yeah. [01:19:00] You all gotta help us push it over the top. Oh my God. I actually wanna like throw up at that suggestion, diva. That is fascinating how much I am like, oh, nope. I will, I'll die first. Thanks. Thanks so
Eva: yeah. That's so interesting because I was kind of coming in here tiptoeing being like, I wanna respect like, and I still do so that the is open, but I want, you know, this, I think, but that wasn't, I don't actually think that medicine, that's the medicine you need. I was gonna be like, you know, if this is like, um, you know, if this is, if we wanna keep this one quiet, like we can't out of respect for.
Your story, but yeah, the medicine I think you need is to be like, Hey, uh, this, yeah, this, this thing that happened. I don't mean you don't have to say a year ago, but you know, if that feels important and I totally am opening myself up to it.
Kyley: Yeah. It's interesting too, because this is also why I'm fucking fascinated by our subconscious shit like so intensely, [01:20:00] because your conscious story would be like, there's not, the conscious story is it's fine, right? But this is like, This is woven around such deep programming for me. So the other thing that's coming up as you're sharing this is how much like self-trust is.
Self-trust is tricky for a lot of us. And my particular flavor of self-trust is that I am a dangerous person to trust. Meaning me, me trusting me is dangerous
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: knowledge that I hold is dangerous, right?
Eva: What do you mean by the knowledge that you hold is
Kyley: Cause the knowledge that I held at like four years old
Eva: Oh, I see. Oh, I see, I see, I see.
Kyley: And I have oth, I have, I have other trauma about that we won't get into on the show, right?
That's like a reoccurring theme for little kid Kylie, that like I have, the knowledge that I have is like dangerous and disruptive and like it would be better if you, if it would be better if I didn't know the things that I know. And so one of my journeys that I, which is interesting cuz I [01:21:00] also have this like deep relationship, I'm like wildly intuitive, right?
And um, and I think. One of the things for me is about like trusting that it's okay to be big and powerful, which is also interesting cause that's like literally, like I have a client I've been working with for almost a year who's fucking incredible. Like that's, that is like, she came to be like, I wanna be, I wanna feel big.
Right? Um, but uh, like I can feel the resistance of sharing the story. Just like, again, just witnessing, not making anything wrong is like, but the story is dangerous to other people, right? Because the things that you know, and the things that you say hurt people, this is the story,
Eva: Right. Right. Right. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: uh, like are, are harmful and it's better if you're smaller.
It's better if you like, pretend that you don't know what you know. Um, and it's just interesting [01:22:00] how much that is like really a through line in like, I, I watched a lot with like, Business and also with like doing like magic and energy work of like, like there's this threshold of, of bigness and power and taking up space that's available.
And a big part of me that's like, yeah, but if we wa if we, if we, if we walk into that will hurt people, we'll disrupt things will, right? And, and also to like continue to draw this thread, like my business coaching's fucking disruptive, right? Like, like it's not uncommon that you come work with me in the first two months of your business are like, oh, the wheels have fallen off the wagon because the wheels were glued on with your fucking people pleasing, codependent things that were making you sick to your stomach.
And like, and now you don't. And now you are no longer capable of like, of being, of, of sacrificing yourself anymore. And so the old ways fall apart and then we build something new, but like, [01:23:00] like that's dangerous, right? And so this is like, This is, this is like a, this is, this is like, this is like this right here is also the edge for me in my business is like, how much can I not tru?
Like I tr I now trust that process really, really deeply because it is, it's just fucking true. But the new edge for it is like, how much can I, how much is it safe to say it?
Eva: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyley: that it's the sa it's the same thing. It's this, it's like how much is it safe to say your truth and let people hear you? Um, because what you have to say is dangerous
Eva: Right. And yeah, this
Kyley: and then they might not like you and then they'll abandon you.
Eva: yeah, and it's all an initiation. I mean, I wanna be careful because I do think it's important to be like, okay. I'm saying this for listeners, like, check in with your nervous system. Like, are you, you know, like, does it feel safe for you to do, et cetera, et cetera.
But all of this to me, in where [01:24:00] you are just feels like an initiation of being like, um, can I trust? Like essentially sharing this and then holding yourself tightly, being like, can I trust that? What I, by sharing my, my truth? It's not dangerous, but it's actually love.
Kyley: Mm. It just felt like a record scratch moment inside the, some part of me was like, wait, what?
Eva: Yeah. I mean it's, it's always loving when we can tell, speak our truth and, and tell the
Kyley: And, and this is also why like, I am just so fucking obsessed with like dropping, like getting intimate with our bodies and our like emotional body because. Intellectually like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Intellectual. Kylie agrees with Eva a thousand percent. And it would be the, the, it's fine. Kylie is like, yeah, of course she can like talk a good game, right?
But meanwhile there are these other parts that are like, Eva, we're actually running the fucking show. So, [01:25:00] so like developing that ability to like read your subtle body and like be an intimate relationship with what your body and your emotions are telling you and like, and then trusting them and like that's the thing that actually allows you to reorder the world because your conscious self is always, it's fine, let's fix
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And meanwhile these deeper like meaning, like it would be easy for me to, in this conversation about sharing the story, just be like, intellectually, yeah, of course this would be great. And that's true. But there are deeper emotional things that are happening. I don't know if this
Eva: No. Yeah, no. And we had to, yes. Uh, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's always the game. It's like to go underneath the intellectual, because what's happening most of the time is our intellectual and our heart and our body aren't matching up. It's like the brain goes, yeah, of course. Blah, blah, blah. But we don't fully know it yet.
Because if, you know, and our body shows us that by giving us these subtle hints that like through discomfort or something, you know?
Kyley: [01:26:00] Yes,
Eva: Yeah. And yes, and so, so much of the spiritual path as we discuss all the time on the show, right, is the body stuff.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And I would add this idea of like, yeah, you're not, you know, this, to really try on this idea of like, And you, but yeah, and you know this, like the intellectual knows this.
It's like sharing your truth is not harmful, but love loving. And I, and I think what you're, what you're really speaking to is, I think something that so many people can relate to. I think a lot of spiritual people can relate to a lot of women. This, to me is what we call like the witch wound, right? Is that like, I feel like some people refer to it as that it's the same, to me, it's parallel with the story that I have that like, I'm crazy.
Like, you know, so listeners, if you are a longtime listener, you know, my big fear is that like, I'm like, I've, I'm, I'm, I'm s I'm afraid that I'm like, if I go too into the spiritual end, yeah. I'll like lose my mind. And that,[01:27:00] yeah, it feels dangerous. It feels scary and like I will be a danger to other people.
And I think that's, I call it the witch wound because I think like that's what it was to be burned at the stake. It's like, you know something as a woman and like you speak your truth and then you get fucking. Murdered for it.
Kyley: Right. Well, and I also think like, yes, which one? But also I think even bigger than that, like when we're really, our truth is disruptive, you know? Like our truth
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: the status quo.
Eva: Yeah. That's so true.
Kyley: And when you disrupt the straws, cool. Like things are lost. Right? Even if what's lost is like fucking patriarchy. Like maybe you had some comfort foods in the ca in patriarchy, you know?
Eva: I wanna think about this. Our truth is disruptive. Like, yeah. Disruptive not being a bad thing though, which we both know, but like our, yeah, I had actually, that's so funny because I found these notes that I had [01:28:00] from this mushroom trip that I did that by myself. We did a whole episode about that and one, and one of my, I had like this post-it note, and one of the notes was like, A person who is true to themselves is a threat to society.
It's like, what is what I wrote on that post-it note as I was tripping and I kind of remember what happened was because I like have this epiphany of being like, oh, like being bully yourself is powerful and that's why it's fucking disruptive. That's why, that's why it's like a threat to fucking society.
Yeah.
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes. And okay. And so the, the, this is also why I'm like obsessed with like liberation business, right? Because like you could build a business that like, according to the rules of capitalism, but it won't fucking set you free and it won't set us free. Right? And also you [01:29:00] gotta pay your bills. So like, you gotta be where you're at.
But also like, yeah, our truth is disruptive and like, being more and more of ourselves is disruptive. And that is a scary thing, I think, for a lot of us. But I think the other thing that I wanna speak to specifically is cause, like, this is ba this was basically a tower card moment. From, from from Tarot, right?
Eva: By the way, I don't know what that means. Just I, I, I get it in, I get it in context, but because I don't know
Kyley: super, you just Google it afterwards. But it's just like, what? Like this, the, like traditional imagery. Is this like a big tower that lightning is struck and it's on fire and someone's falling out of the
Eva: Oh my god. Okay. Okay. Got it.
Kyley: So it's like, like, like people, like it's, it is like the car that people are like, oh fuck.
Like people think that death is, could the death card scare? But then like, oh, I get it. Death ring broke, blah blah. The tower card is like, no, no. Like shit's getting fucked up,
Eva: Where everything goes as shit. Yeah. Okay. Or is, or is. Right. Got it. The foundation is like
Kyley: Like, just,
Eva: and, yeah. [01:30:00] Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Um, and I, I think what I also wanna speak to is like, I live with safety and love woven in my body. So much deeper, like deeper than I actually knew was possible. And also I can now see that it's just like the tip of the iceberg
Eva: Do you mean as a result of this experience?
Kyley: as a result of this experience.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Because it was an initiation and right, and it's like almost like it was like it was waiting for me to get to the moment where I was ready to see it, you know? And like, and to, and, and to see these parts of myself and it's ongoing, but the like [01:31:00] kind of tsunami of grief and disruption that was last summer, like reordered, my nervous system,
Eva: Yeah,
Kyley: like fundamentally changed my.
Ability to like be a loving partner. And it was hard, this, like, it was hard, like the, like, it was, you know, like it was hard to not make any money in my business when my husband was like, we have kids and bills to pay. Right? And I like, um, and like, I feel like I birthed, I birthed my body of work through that experience of like what it means to actually fucking be safe in the world.
And, um, it felt so much as it was happening, like, why is this happening to me? I hate [01:32:00] this. Like, what have I done wrong? Like, it was really, really hard. And also it's like, through that was one of the most transformational portals ever,
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: you know? And I'm really, really grateful that the floor finally fell out because I was, because I didn't as, I didn't know how to even go to that place.
Or like I said, I kept coming, being like, abandonment again. Huh. How surprised. Like, I didn't know how to go to that place. And I think maybe that's why some people do like a plant medicine, right? There's other ways that you don't, you don't need just a surprise email. But, um, I guess my like initial motivation in making this podcast one is I guess, I think part of me probably needed to tell the story, but I
Eva: Yeah, exactly. I do think that, yeah, we talked about like, the theme is light in the Dark, and I think that's still the theme, but it's [01:33:00] really what I'm seeing is like, God, in a way, I'm kinda like, yes, we're finally getting a chance to talk about this. You know, because I've just been kind of waiting, like, as you know, and just like assuming that when the time was right, the time would be right, and it kind of happened organically.
Like we didn't really, we knew we were gonna talk about this. Um, but I don't think, but in a, in that the same way that, you know, you were talking about how like there's still a way that you make the story small. Like we didn't think that it was gonna be this episode that it, that it
Kyley: No, I literally thought I was gonna come and give like a five minute summary of what happened and then we were gonna tell a whole thing about, I think you had a better sense, but I literally was like, okay, cliff notes version. This will take like five minutes to give backstory and then we're just gonna, um, talk about like hope in the dark.
Eva: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: And it turns out I just had to, you know, oh, this is [01:34:00] fascinating. Oh, hi. Shame again cuz what the phrase that I was about to use was air, my dirty laundry. Hi Catholic. Shame. I see you.
Eva: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And I just feel so great. Grateful.
Kyley: to have observed. Okay.
Sorry, just real time processing on the
Eva: I, I mean, I was just gonna say again, yeah. I feel so honored to be on the receiving end, um, of you sharing this really beautiful, and I think inspiring. Like, I feel very inspired. Um, Difficult human experience. Yeah. It's, I, I, yeah.
I think some of the things that you were sharing in this conversation are gonna stick with me for a while.
Kyley: Thanks. I mean, it's funny, like I've been declaring this is my tourist queen summer and it's meaning like [01:35:00] I actually have access to being slow. Right. I actually have access to like, yeah, we're just gonna sit in a fucking hammock all day. Or like, yeah, we're just gonna like, have a lazy day at home and just be playful here.
And like there's, there's an access to slow that my nervous system has not known. That is also still an edge for me to be clear. Like that's why I had to declare the intention. Right. Because it's like, it's also the curriculum.
Eva: well I, and I don't know if it will ever not be an edge
Kyley: yeah, that's true. That's true.
Eva: and not just for you, I mean for people in American society anyway, like, you know, cuz you can always go deeper into rest. Yeah.
Kyley: yes. And it is, it is like very clear to me that it is like a direct, like, like time, the way, that time is not real. I can feel last summer and this summer, like smooshed up next, right next to each other, that was like this easeful, restful, joyful [01:36:00] Summer is directly because. It was fucking hard and it was restful and easily, it was like everything was, that was the thing that was like the, one of the gifts was like everything was on fire.
Everything felt hard. My heart felt like it was a cracked open in a way that I was very unprepared for. And also, it was so beautiful. There was so much joy. It was so much fun. Like there were so many moments last summer that was like, everything is all the things that I thought I didn't want to happen have happened.
And also I am here. I am fine, right? Not the performative cover everything up here in the place where everything's on fire. It turns out I actually am okay and I'm safe and, and I can carry that with me. And not as like, and not in a like white knuckling, oh, it was hard. But like I can do hard things, but like literally, like I can be soft and fall apart and be loved and safe and taken care of and like I can not have what I need and like [01:37:00] still have it show up as like care and.
And so now in this like more abundant chapter in this, like, in this like more overtly joyful chapter, I'm the joy,
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: I am the sa, I am the safety. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not, it's not conditional. That's like, that's the lesson, right? The deeper and deeper lesson. So, um, I guess I'm just waxing poetic about my hellish initiation of December, 2020.
Eva: And how and how can not, how can sharing this not be helpful? How can this, you know, like this is poetry, you know, like, and yeah. Anyway, just wanna like reaffirm that, uh, the new story of like, you know, or the story that you already know, which is like, sharing our truth is Or, or as you like to say, if it's [01:38:00] good for me, it's good for everyone else.
Kyley: Thank you for always being such a just exceptional witness.
Eva: I mean, you make it easy.
Kyley: Ugh, I love you.
Eva: Ah, this one. Uh, yeah, I mean, truly, I'm like, I'm so honored to end season three with this, like, because I, but I'm learning about a lot all this in real time too, listeners, if you don't know, you know, so I'm just sitting down like my bud learning about some of what I knew and some of it I'm learning about in a deeper way. And yeah, we'll see where this conversation conversation takes you. Everyone. If you're listening to this, go check Kylie's, Instagram
Kyley: really fucking hold me accountable.
Eva: Go check her Instagram, see what she wrote. Go. Yeah,
Kyley: My gosh. Okay. Okay. Come on. The, the pictures just gonna be, Eva made me do it.
Eva: yeah,[01:39:00]
Kyley: It's written on a napkin.
Eva: You can do that. I, I totally, uh, I, I'm happy to be the, the, yeah. Instigator. Um, how are you feeling? Um, Complete. Is there more that you wanna
Kyley: Loved. I feel, I feel complete on the story telling.
Eva: Um, and I'm sure as new wisdom arises, you know, we can come back. Well, it's cool that we can talk about it now, like, you know, when we
Kyley: didn't even really talk about shame in this too, but Yeah. Yeah,
Eva: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Kyley: because I was also drowning in like, that was, that was what I was drowning in all summer. When I wasn't drowning in
Eva: Right, right, right. The shame about Yeah. And yeah.
Kyley: So
Eva: the, around your business, right?
Kyley: Well, but, but also, sorry. I will actually, I guess I will give a, give a plug for shame because the business was, the shame about business was symptomatic, right?
Like my origin story is like, I, I, I said for like, I cooked myself in shame, right? Like my, like the origin story of like, [01:40:00] you know, like not having a father, that having a father, teenage mom, like the way that my family, you know, zipped it all up with the best of intentions. Like, you know, like it's the, it's like the language that I knew and, and my, and my programming because of this and other things that I experienced is that love and shame.
Like, like there was this like wild, um, enmeshment of love and shame. And so that from, and this is something that I'm still unlearning that to like actually sit deeply in the like frequency of how much I am loved also feels like shame to me. To actually just like fall into like, you know, Eva, like unconditionally loves me.
There is a part of me that in res that like experiences that as shame.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: that's like my core programing, right? So all of this, like grief in some ways was actually the easy thing. The other piece of this [01:41:00] was like really developing the resilience to like sit with the intensity of my shame and like let it dissolve and let it, let it trans transmute into like a love that feels comfortable.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: and, and that is big medicine for me. That is like perpetual and ongoing. Um, but also so much of my like inability to be still is because still and also is like, oh, are we still great? Here's shame,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Do you have us per second? So, um, uh, you and so, so then the, like, the shame of like, oh no, and also my business isn't making, isn't making money.
Was like a great opportunity to process the, like, the symptom that of, of this like deeper shame that I could, that was like much harder to access, which is the shame of like being loved is shame, um, uh, or experiencing love. I, anyways, um, and that's also a thing that feels really [01:42:00] beautiful. It feels honestly like what, it is like such a delicious thing to be like, yeah, I'm a business coach and a really exceptionally good business coach and I'm very comfortable talking about the times that I haven't made money that I've failed.
Right? Like, it, it, that to me feels like such a delicious
Eva: Liberation, honestly.
Kyley: fucking liberation.
Eva: Yeah, yeah. And you know, we're both here for liberation.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: That's like our old jam.
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: And yeah. And, uh, I just wanna gift it an honor that we get to learn from you. And I think it's gonna be ongoing. And now it's this cool thing that it's like you've liberated the story in a way and we can, I don't know, always go back and be like, and also go check out season three, like last episode.
If you hear us referring to something cuz like, this is it, this is what we're referring to.
Kyley: Thank you.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: joy.
Eva: Yeah, let's, yeah, let's do joy. Let's, as, as is tradition. And since we are, ugh, I [01:43:00] can't believe we're three seasons in here. We are, we always take a summer break, which is very in line with our values.
Kyley: Yeah. Also, we've like expanded it like the first season I think we like took like two weeks and we like played replays the whole time. And now we're like, yeah, we're gone for two months. Catch up. Catch find the archives. We love
Eva: yeah. Um,
Kyley: Let's bring you joy.
Eva: well I have something locked and loaded cuz I'm very excited about it. Um, and it feels Okay. Lemme just tell you what it is and then I'll, I'll explain. So my joy is that I started knitting and
Kyley: Ooh.
Eva: actually, okay. My joy is a combination of things I started knitting. Wow. Okay. Sorry.
This is gonna be a bit of long story. This is a, this is a long episode, but you know, whatever Season three and, and we'll just,
Kyley: We gotta, we gotta hold people over for the whole
Eva: Exactly. This is
Kyley: peace. Feel this
Eva: exactly, exactly. Okay. Why is me knitting important? Um, [01:44:00] first of all, when I was in having a real existential crisis about like my purpose in life in my twenties and I was like feeling really lost.
I was so, so desperate that I paid like a shit ton of money to take this jo, this test called the John Johnson O'Connor. Oh God. Johnson O'Connor, like aptitude test. And it was like a two day thing where you go there in person and they measure all these different skills and I don't think I've ever told you.
It was actually really interesting. And they make you like, there's physical stuff and there's like, uh, word stuff and spatial stuff. I have terrible spatial recognition, which is very affirming to know, which is why I always get fucking lost and like, I don't know. Yeah. I don't have a sense of direction.
What I found out that was very interesting was through that test is I actually have very good. Finger dexterity. And so the whole point of that test is like if you learn what you're good at, you'll be more engaged. And it's good to use these skills, right? So if you have good spatial reckoning or if you have good I, the other thing, okay, actually you'll find this funny, the thing that I tested [01:45:00] off the charts in was this thing called ideaphoria, which is to mean like, you can think really sort of like big and like constantly have thoughts.
Like this is why we're able to have a podcast. Cuz me, I can just talk about shit forever.
Kyley: Fucking obsessed with this word, ideaphoria.
Eva: And I was actually really pissed off about it because I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do with this? Like, this is not a skill, this is a burden. It was a burden previously because I didn't know how to use it.
Kyley: my God,
Eva: And I tested, I tested like 98th or 99th percentile where, and like, um, which I think is like anyway.
And then anyway, so I have good finger dexterity and I just think it's really helpful for me to do something with my hands. So that's why knitting. Feels so satisfying for me and I can like get in there like real quick. Um, but the other reason this is really important is because I think this is a symbol, symbol of how singledom, a way in which Singledom [01:46:00] is very for me because there were so many things that I wanted to do when I was in a relationship that for whatever reason got pushed to the wayside and I always wanted to knit.
And this is something that I've wanted to do for like a really long time, just like a creative project, a craft. Like it really, it's, it's not just, to me it's much bigger. Like this is good for my soul. Do you know what I mean? And I just find like little ways in which I am sort of showing up for myself.
When I didn't necessarily maybe have to when I was or get to, I don't know, when I was in a relationship, and I have thoughts about this all the time of like, this always happens when I get into a relationship there, I lose little parts of me, even if I'm somebody who's like very intentional, like I'm very intentional about also being as much as I can, like, you know, authentically me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But no matter what happens, I think it's just, [01:47:00] I, this is a topic I would love to talk about on the episode, on the podcast at some point in general, like, how do you be in a relationship and also get to keep all of your things and maybe you can't be right Because life is so much people, people are always like, relationships are compromised, blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, so
Kyley: is just this way that you, not even the compromise thing, but there is a way that a separate, like not, I'm not speaking to codependency here, but like there is a way that you like blend with your people, right? Like, like I, I speak like you and Liz and Nick, right? Like, like there's, there is just way that you, yeah.
Eva: that's you. Were you getting meshed? And like that can be a beautiful thing. And also that's okay. So like that's that. This is why it's such a big topic for me because I think I'm very impressionable. And so whether I like it or not, I think that's why it's so, that's why, [01:48:00] if anything, I probably am a try hard at trying to keep myself, myself because of how impressionable I am and like whoever I'm spending the most time with, I just like fall into that a little bit.
And I wanna be very clear. I think there's some people who like really lose themselves and I'm so vigilant against not doing that, that I don't think that I'm doing that because I just really don't want to. Anyway, so it's like this whole complicated thing where like, whatever, so.
Kyley: yes.
Eva: Anyway, this is the long answer to say.
Kyley: of you on your own terms, choosing a project that you
Eva: Yeah. And also like having the time to do it, actually, there's actually little ways in which that's been showing up. Another thing is just like eating differently because Adam was like the main cook and that was great. And, and this isn't like a thing about like Singledom being better than Coupledom.
It's not that. It's that there's joy in Singledom and
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: I like being single, like for this reason. And also I [01:49:00] like being coupled, right? This isn't a declaration about like, whatever. But anyway, I, I just feels like a big deal because of how long I've been wanting to do this. And the fact that I'm finally fucking doing it has felt so nurturing.
Kyley: I love this.
Eva: Yeah. So that's,
Kyley: I'm very excited to like see that visual evidence of your knitting,
Eva: know I'm gonna see like, Yeah, I'm trying to do the thing where that you've talked about with like, I think you used to crochet, right?
Kyley: uh, EM
Eva: Yeah. Brain embroider. Part of it is also like, I want to, like, immediately my like, type A brain wouldn't be there. I'm gonna make the best fucking blankets in the world, you know?
But I also think part of this needs to be like, it doesn't matter, like what the outcome is. Um, and I just wanna hold the balance of those two things
Kyley: Yeah. It feels really delicious to do a project that's like, you know, this can
Eva: just to, just to do it, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah, yeah.
Eva: So, yeah, we'll check in, uh, in the fall and see how, how it's going.
Kyley: Go, go.
Eva: [01:50:00] Okay. What about you, Kylie? What's one thing that's bringing you joy?
Kyley: Okay. So Desi, the six, um, has learned how to read and reached the point of reading where he can like, read with enough fluency that he's reading himself books. And in particular, he loves graphic novels, which makes sense. Cause I wish they were like a thing when I was a kid. And so one is just like, I'm a reader and he, it's like, I just am like really loving, watching how much he can fall into the world of story.
And like, sometimes he'll like be like, start like reading, like kapow
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: to himself. He's
Eva: my God, that's so cute.
Kyley: really cute. And he'll like get like lost, like, like something when I was, anyways.
Eva: Yeah, that's one. It's one of the great, great joys, you know?
Kyley: his whole relationship to books just feels like such a delight. Um, We're reading a book together right now that's like really genuinely fun where I'm like, I wanna, I wanna put you to bed.
Cause I wanna know what happens next. But the specific joy that I wanna share is that [01:51:00] every time when I like, like a true mom, I go in and I kiss my head kids on the head before I go to bed when they're asleep. Um, and, uh, he always has a book in his bed that he's like, fallen, like, right? We put him to bed and then he like pulls a book out from under his bed and it's like, every night I go in there and he's fallen asleep, like draped over the book.
And it is just so fucking sweet to me that like, ugh. It's just, I just like cherish so much, like taking the book out from underneath him, putting it on the floor, it just, ugh. I loved those moments so much as a kid. And I would like, pretend like I would, I would, I like, would like had a flashlight and
Eva: Hmm. Under the blanket. Yep.
Kyley: And like everyone fucking knew what they were doing, what I was doing, you know?
Yeah. And so I think I also like reliving some of my childhood joy, um, and also[01:52:00]
Eva: Yeah. Seeing someone that you love so much, like you know, what they're experiencing, and that was such a joyful thing for you, that it's almost, I don't think I'm using the word compersion properly, this idea of like just finding joy in the
Kyley: else's
Eva: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And I think like there's so much solace and adventure and joy in that's available in book. Like if you're someone who loves reading, it's like a holy fucking universe
Eva: best fucking feeling. Like, and I remember actually, yeah. So I think what you're speaking to is like that feeling. Sorry, I just got excited because you reminded me of like, that I, that moment the first time I got like, really swept up in a book and I was like, this is so enjoyable. And again, and seeing that, and I'm sure it happened previously, but for some reason I have a very, um, like clear memory of just loving Matilda such a, such a [01:53:00] good book
Kyley: Oh my God. Of course. That's like the perfect book for kid you to love, like the like brilliant girl who outsmarts negligent parents with magic.
Eva: Oh my God. I actually go like re Yeah, revisit that book. But anyway, it's kind of magic, I guess that that feeling is what you're describing. And then to see Desi experience it. Yeah. Must be really, yeah. Beautiful.
Kyley: love, I love it. And I like, love the fact that he like, thinks he's getting away with something. You, you know, it's like, oh, ugh. The whole thing. I just, it's my favorite. So.
Eva: Oh, it's just like a good summer. I don't know. Now this is like, I hope this like inspires someone to go out there and do some summer reading because, you know, I feel like I'm always like, I don't read enough books, but there's something about summer, I don't know, maybe like having a hammock helps me. Like, and I remember last year getting like unhealthily actually sucked into a fucking trilogy, a sci-fi trilogy.
And it was like,
Kyley: No such thing as unhealthily sucked
Eva: oh no. It was like I, I get really [01:54:00] addicted to the point where like, You know, I would go to sleep at like 5:00 AM and and then like be
miserable. I mean, it is so
Kyley: so delicious.
Eva: So it is so great. But it is so,
Kyley: like how, what an amazing thing to like be so invested in this completely made up story that you fuck up your whole sleep schedule. Like, how great to be lost in the like in this world. Uh, I've been, I'm wrapping up a book that's like a seven part series and I have like a hundred pages left in this last book, and I literally was like something the other day about like, whatever's happening to the characters.
I don't, I don't actually cry when I read that often, and it's pretty rare for me. But just saying something is across time anyway, but like, ugh, this, the, the, these books have fucked with my sleep so much over the past few months and like, what a great thing to love something that
Eva: Yeah, it is. It is. It's a great fucking feeling. But I think I could set myself up better, like [01:55:00] literally my life. It just had to be put on pause.
Kyley: Yeah, I know that, I know that feeling.
Eva: I remember Adam being like, dude, like,
Kyley: I need to know what this syp what is, what was this trilogy?
Eva: fuck. Um, hold on, let me think. Um, red Rising, have you heard of it? Does Nick Oh, you're de sci-fi,
Kyley: I read sci-fi. Nick is, Nick had Nick reads
Eva: Oh my God, maybe.
Kyley: wrenching novels.
Eva: Oh, okay. Okay. Um, yeah, red Rising. Um, I think it's really popular. Uh, I think the first one is called Red Rising, and it's,
Kyley: I've seen it. I can picture it. I've seen it at the bookstore. Okay,
Eva: yeah. I won't even, I won't, I, I could like wax poetic about it, but this podcast is already very long, so.
Kyley: very long.
Eva: Yeah. Um, all right.
Kyley: Happy summer everybody. Send us your favorite summer book recommendations since even gonna be reading in her hammock all summer.
Eva: Yes, yes, yes. Come find us on Instagram. If you like this show. Can you share it? Share this episode with someone who you [01:56:00] think maybe can benefit from it. Uh, write a review.
Kyley: Despite doubling our listenership in the past year, um, we have not had a new review in a year, so I just wanna invite all of our new listeners who came post Kylie Diva's ragner book last summer to review.
Eva: Yeah. Um, but I also wanna give a plug about writing review. I, it's actually like, super quick and I say that because before I had ever written one, I'd always be too lazy, even if I really liked the show and I'd be like, I had to get to it. But literally it's like you just go to the thing and swipe up and you'll see a place to do it.
Like, yeah. Wham. Bam. Thank you ma'am.
Kyley: Um, we love you. Thank you for helping us all make this space cause we love the show and, uh, we're so grateful to make this creation. So thanks for being on the ride with us.
Eva: Are you in season four?