We talk to the Sensual Chef, Kiele Jael, about eating with our senses, her journey to Mexico for IVF, and washing the dishes.
We talk to the Sensual Chef, Kiele Jael, about eating with our senses, her journey to Mexico for IVF, and washing the dishes.
Kiele-Jael Stanton aka The Sensual Chef is a certified Health-Supportive Chef and the founder of Kiele Jael Wellness.
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The Sensuality of Food with Kiele Jael
Eva: [00:00:00] Hello? Hello? Hello, Univers listeners. It's Eva here. We have another wonderful episode for you this week, all about food cooking, connecting with our food in a more embodied and meaningful way. Oh, we also ha sidetrack. Actually, no, we start with a really interesting conversation about IVF as well, because our guest was just so open and sharing about her experience and hoping to, and hoping to.
Be able to, um, support anyone else who might be interested in ivf and that was also really appreciated. I always just think that's a really interesting topic. Um, but before [00:01:00] we get to the show, I have some really exciting things to share with you. Me and Kylie both do. We're both, um, Working on projects that we are in love with right now.
Uh, Kylie is, um, in the middle of her launch for Sovereign Sales. Uh, if you haven't heard us talk about this program already, uh, I'm a, I'm a huge fan personally as a business owner who has struggled with sales, um, and really just like the whole online industry. To begin with because I've, I've had coaches who have burned me.
I started off, you know, when I was quite vulnerable trying to like figure out how to do the damn thing and signed up with people who made it sound like there was like a specific way to be for things to be done. Where it's like, follow these three steps and you'll make a million dollars. And just really getting sucked into that loop of, I think artifice and.
Um, that's like not taking into account the person and like how can we sell in a way that actually feels in [00:02:00] integrity with who we are rather than I think the bro marketing that's often out there. Right. So Kylie of course, no surprise, takes her magic. I mean, she's been doing sales for 15 years. So, I mean, she has like the, the experience, the practicality, um, the, the sort of like the foundational understanding of how sales works and then she gets to take it and weave it with all of her magic.
Um, not just magic, but I think. For me, it seems like it's just a much more conscientious way of running your business because you're not trying to mold yourself to some way that other per some, some something that's worked for someone else. It's she's saying like, Hey, here are the rules. I'm gonna teach them to you, cuz it's helpful for you to understand just like what the, like what, what the matrix is saying, what works.
And then you get to decide what actually does work for you. What doesn't work for you? How can you make adjustments and adapt some of these rules? And essentially also break the rules so that you're making con like conscious choices about how [00:03:00] you're doing things in your business rather than just flailing, feeling more in control.
Um, Yeah, like the tagline for this, for this course, which I love, is you learn the rules and then you break the rules so that then you can kind of like do your, your, your, your sales and run your business your own way, um, without feeling like you're doing something wrong or like getting overwhelmed. Um, but also understanding the dynamics of.
So to me that just feels really invaluable. It's the kind of course that I wish that I had when I was starting out and I mean even now I'm sure there's like a lot in there that would be really helpful for me to learn. So if you are an entrepreneur of some sort, um, I think, you know, Kylie mostly works with a lot of coaches and other healers.
Um, this course I think would be a really great place to. Jumpstart and or revitalize some, like bring some life into your business if you're feeling [00:04:00] really stuck. Um, Kylie has helped me many times with my own sales stuff, so obviously I personally recommend her if you are interested. Um, she's also offering some, like, I mean her, her Instagram, she's offering a lots of just like, um, coaching there and she's been doing some free workshops and stuff.
So like if you aren't already following her on Instagram, go find her. Check out her stuff. And go to her website to, to learn more about sovereign sales. Um, as for me, I am working on a project called Flow Healing. Your relationship with productivity , and even as I say this, I feel this warmth in my belly because I feel so passionate about being able to help people and wanting to help people who find a lot of suffering in their day to day lives revolving around how they are spending their time.
Worrying constantly about what needs to get done. Feeling stressed out, feeling like you're not doing enough. [00:05:00] Pressuring yourself if maybe, you know, you feel like you need to, to rest, but then you can't rest because when you're resting, you're just thinking about work. And then when you're working, all you really wanna do is rest.
Um, the fact of the matter is, mm. Few of us are impervious to, um, the toxicity of capitalism where we, our whole, not just our days, but also our sense of self and our sense of gratification and worth comes from, Okay, how much am I getting done? How much am I accomplishing? And really like, That gives us a sense of safety.
Um, the reason that, that so many of us are in the loop of like obsessing or worrying about getting things done or, or, that seems to be like the only time we feel a sense of accomplishment is like when we check something off our bar list and then if we don't check something off of our list, we feel. I don't know, shitty or bad about our day, like that is just no way to live.
But the reason that that that's true is because we have [00:06:00] been taught that safety comes from getting shit done, . When we get shit done, we feel like we can finally, Feel a sense of, uh, self-worth and safety. Like that's how our needs are gonna be met. That's how we can feel responsible. Um, that's how we don't disappoint people.
There's just a lot of stuff that goes and like messiness and stories and of our own personal hangups that get caught up in our relationship with productivity. Really what I see is that, um, For a lot of us, our need to be productive is a trauma response. We, we, we get into this hyper vigilance about, um, and I, and I'm, as I'm speaking, I want you to sort of run this through your own system and see if this is true for you, this hyper vigilance of like, Yeah, I'm the type A person who gets things done.
And, and the reason that's really tricky is because in our society that's often like rewarded actually in our insane backwards. Unhealthy [00:07:00] society, we're rewarded for that. And so we've, we built our whole identity based on like, okay, well I'm the kind of person who gets things done. Um, And I think many of you are starting to see through the illusion that like that's actually not where joy comes from.
That's actually not where safety and satisfaction come from. And if we're, it's like dangling a carrot in front of us. And if that's like the thing, that's the carrot that we're always going for it. It never ends. Like the carrot just keeps moving and moving and moving and moving and suddenly we wake up and we see clearly and we're like, Wait, wait, wait a second.
This is a trap. I'm never gonna get to that point where I finally feel totally fulfilled by doing, by all the things that I need to do because. Uh, surprise, surprise. That type of safety and fulfillment and embodiment comes from a spiritual place. It comes from within, it comes from our connection with our bodies.
It comes from being embodied. It comes from being present . It comes from knowing how to move through the difficult stories and emotions that come up that we tell ourselves, which is the trauma of like, when we don't get things done, like [00:08:00] something's like not gonna be okay, or I'm not gonna have my needs met, or, you know, the, the fear and just the stress and the anxiety.
I have so much compassion for, um, and compassion and I think understanding of this because this was me, uh, for so much of my life. And also it's, it's just the suffering that I see in so many people like. So, so, so, so, so many people, and I think a lot of us, again, are coming to a place where we're waking up.
We're like, we know that we can, there's a different way. This isn't the truth of my, our reality, but at the same time, I still struggle with it and I don't know how to get out. So flow healing is all about healing your relationship with productivity, because what I have found is that when you heal your relationship with productivity, it's actually.
Easier to get things done. You get to do, you get to move through your day and accomplish things in a sovereign way where [00:09:00] you're making a choice about what gets done and doesn't get done, rather than being compulsive and reacting to things, feeling like you're totally outta control. So a lot of this is actually just about noticing where you are not yet free so that you can gain your power back. And to me that is a really important spiritual evolution.
This, my friends, is spiritual work. Your, um, the illusions that you. Or that you are hooked into about what it means to be productive and how you're always in do doing mode rather than being mode. You, this is a portal to your own personal liberation . This is very much, um, an awakening of some sorts, like a, it's a path towards awakening.
So if you are interested in not only, uh, healing your relationship with productivity so that you can work the way that you want to, but also in, in through the process of healing, feel more spiritually connected to [00:10:00] yourself and to God, this program is for you. I feel. So, uh, just fired up and passionate about the transformation that I want to be able to share with you guys.
And really it just like help people because this is huge source of suffering for people that I think. Um, is tragic . I mean, that's it, it's tragic and it's, it's our own insanity. Um, there is a link in the show notes where you can sign up to be on the wait list because, um, doors haven't opened yet. I haven't started launching yet, but, um, people who are on the wait list will get, you know, the early bird discounts.
You'll get some extra bonuses, some extra goodies. It's always good to be on the early bird list. So click on that link and just add your name. And then once I have launch information, you guys will be the first to know. Um, I think that's it. Yeah. All right. So sovereign sales for Kylie. Flow for me. And if you like this episode, as always, [00:11:00] go to the gram, um, tag us, tag our guests and share this episode with your loved ones.
This week we are speaking to Elli Jelle, who calls herself the sensual chef, which I really love. Um, As I mentioned before, we actually had Keele on the show so she could talk to us more about, um, deepening our relationship with food.
But we got into this, she shared with us in the beginning just like her experience of going to Mexico to do ivf, um, which I think can sometimes be an isolating experience for women, which is why I'm so happy that we made space to have this conversation to. Be be to have a transparent conversation about it so that we can normalize it and also make sure that people who are choosing to go in this direction can get like the best care.
Um, in addition, uh, Keelie shared with us, gosh, we talked about like. Cookings. That's something that I've noticed that I've been sort of disconnected with. Um, as much as I love Food , [00:12:00] um, because Adam has always historically done all the cooking in our relationship, it was really helpful for me to have this conversation to be like, Wait, wait, wait.
There's like, there is a spiritual and soulful reason for why we wanna cook and be reconnected with our food. Um, we talk about how to connect with Con Connect, uh, nutrition. Cooking and sensuality together, essentially like using our senses through food, um, which are all really imperative for our health.
We are really excited to share this episode with you. We hope you guys enjoy it.
Hi Kaylie. Welcome to Hell Universe. Thanks so much for joining us.
Kiele: Hi. Thank you for having me.
Eva: Uh, as you know, our first question for all of our guests is, what is something that life is teaching you right now?
Kiele: Uh, can I say one or two things?
Eva: You can say all the
Kiele: two things.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Um, there are two things that life is teaching me right now. One is to have extreme patience. Um, [00:13:00] another one is to create boundaries more than ever of what I take into my life. And I actually have a third is to have no expectations of how anything will happen, and just know that life is good no matter.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: those three again cuz I feel like they just should be the rules for living
Kiele: So the first one is to have extreme patience. Um, I've had to have a lot of patience with what I've been going through lately. Big things, big changes. The second thing is to create major boundaries around what I take in in my life. And that includes information, people, food, like everything. Mostly things that have to do with my emotions.
And then, uh, the third would be have no expectations at all. So I don't get disappointed with anything. And, uh, know that no matter what, life is great. Life is grand. I'm really happy to be [00:14:00] alive,
Eva: Hmm.
Kiele: And that's pretty much.
Eva: So we've had we, cuz we had a little bit of conversation off the record before we started recording and so I was wondering if you could maybe share with the audience what you shared with us, because knowing the, so Kylie and I have context for what is going on in your life to teach this. And I think it'd be really interesting for our listeners to know also I through what means you're, you're learning these lessons,
Kiele: Yeah, no problem. Um, I'd love to share this. I had just spent two months in Cancun, Mexico doing three rounds of IVF treatments, and I had a fibroid removal surgery while I was there, and it was. An incredible experience. Um, some people in my life were very weary of the fact that I was going to Mexico because I live in the States.
I live in Austin, Texas. And for me it was an opportunity for my husband and I to have a vacation. [00:15:00] Um, we both work for ourselves. We're in the same time zone as Texas, so it was easy for us to just continue about our day. And also the healthcare in Mexico, at least in Cancun, at my specific clinic, has been fantastic and it's not what people think.
And we actually signed up for two rounds, but ended up doing three. Um, and that's where what I was talking about with the patients and no expectations and, um, really being strict about creating boundaries. And it had a lot to do with just what has happened, um, with those three rounds of ivf. And, uh, but overall it was a really fantastic experience.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, and I have two embryos out of everything, out of all of it. And so I'm really thrilled because I'll be 41 this year and I know for women over 40 it can be difficult to conceive naturally. And also, um, a lot of women have fertility [00:16:00] problems and you don't even have to be over 40. You could be 20 and have fertility problems.
So it's a big issue right now, uh, with, uh, with women and women's health.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, I'm thrilled to hear about this because IVF may be in my future and I actually, to be honest, never considered, just didn't have the awareness of Mexico being an option and the healthcare system in America is fucking disaster . So like, I'm like, this sounds really appealing. And also, you know, I like that you're coming on here to share the possibility with other people who also may need this as an option.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to share. And you know, just so your listeners know, I'm very much one to do all of my research and I'm very strict about what I get myself into. And I would, I err on the side of cautiousness, but at the same time, I am one to be very impulsive. And if I feel intuitively that something is right, I just go for it.
And this was one of those things that I [00:17:00] went for. Um, and I decided to go to this specific clinic in Cancun because when we did, uh, a telemedicine, uh, video call with the doctor really had a good feeling about him. And then not only that, one of my best friends that I grew up with, who's an anesthesiologist, um, she has a colleague who's also an anesthesiologist.
Him and his husband went to this clinic to have their surrogate, um, or to do surrogacy and have their baby. And so he vetted for this clinic. And if it's good enough for an anesthesiologist outta San Francisco, it's good enough for me. So, and he had the same issues with just the healthcare system, even though he is an anesthesiologist, he was just, I guess like it's just really expensive and why not go somewhere else where the healthcare is just as good, if not better.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: So,
Eva: Um, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you, you know, you, you talk about this experience, um, I can just tell that [00:18:00] it felt, it seems like almost maybe transformational or very nourishing in some ways. So I was wondering if you could talk about what made the experience so wonderful.
Kiele: Well, like I said earlier, for us it was really important to be. In a place where we felt like we were on vacation. So it was really nice to be by the water.
Eva: Mm.
Kiele: and it was really nice to be out of our home. And that's something I wasn't sure how I would feel if I don't, I didn't know if I would wanna be in the comfort of my own home or be somewhere else in a foreign country.
Um, but it ended up being a great choice because, you know, it was, everything was so smooth and I felt every day, like I could really relax. I mean, I'm in
Eva: I think that's okay. So I just wanna punctuate that because I know people who've gone through IVF and it's stressful. Like that pressure and just, just all of it. And I think,
Kyley: [00:19:00] And the whole idea that like, oh, you just need to relax and like with the, the pressure to relax, which only makes it harder, right? That's like if I don't relax properly, then this won't work and so I really can't fucking relax. Like that is excruciating
Kiele: Yes, Yes. And, and sometimes you think you're relaxed and you're not,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: and you know what, what I was afraid of was being in a relaxing environment and not being able to relax.
Eva: right. Right.
Kiele: yeah, I, I'm also in a position where I could go for. Two months and just be there. And I'm also in a position where I don't have to work for two months if I don't want to.
And I know a lot of people don't have that luxury. However, I will say that if you do work for yourself and you have the ability to take off, and you're in this position where you are thinking about having a baby and want to go through ivf, it is worth it to go because the cost of IVF treatments there are way less [00:20:00] expensive than here.
Granted, you pay out of pocket there, but still if you compare apples to apples, it is way less expensive. Another thing that I really loved that would made it way less stressful was the fact that everything is included. All of the ultrasound appointments that's included, and in the states, it's not included.
And some of the appointments can be anywhere from $200 to 800. Per appointment and you're going every other day. Right. Another thing that's included when you go to Mexico is the, uh, medication. And in the states it can be anywhere on average of 3000 to $500 per, per round.
Eva: Wow. Wow.
Kiele: you know, in, in Mexico it's very, it's way less expensive.
Um, like I said earlier, I just believe that the culture really has to do with what you experience there. I mean, everyone is so service-oriented and hospitable and really nice and that really translates [00:21:00] over to the care, I believe. And when I was at the clinic, I mean, I saw foreigners every time I was there from Europe, different countries in Europe, from the states, locals in Mexico, um, I mean, all over the place.
I've met three women from San Francisco, you know, so it's a, it was a really cool to see other women, um, Coming to the clinic and experience this and, and having a good, uh, yeah, having a good time. So,
Kyley: breaking news. Other countries have better reproductive health than the
Kiele: yep. Breaking news. We actually looked at Greece initially, to be honest. Um, but with the time difference, it was just too much because they were about 10 hours ahead of us and we just couldn't swing it. We also looked at wow, Sweden. But again, same thing, time difference. And my husband was so funny, he cracked a joke.
He's like, If only Cuba was open, um, which it wasn't. He's not wrong, but I would be kind of fearful for the, their updated equipment. Um, but you know, that's not happening.[00:22:00]
Eva: you know, so, okay, so we had a guest, Nike on the show a couple weeks ago, and she talked about like, I can't get this Ever since she said it, I can't get outta my head. She was like, we talk about other countries as quote unquote Third World, and there's this connotation of like, Oh, America's more developed and better and these other places are somehow more poverty stricken.
And we have these ideas of like how they are. with everything and all of our rights being stripped away, like all of this, I, you know, it really feels like Handmaid's tale. Like, and we're becoming third world. Like I really, my, my
Kyley: Nike's work phrase is just, we are a third world country. Like, you know, in terms of, uh,
Eva: And I, when I, I see that like, there's, so the, the, the houseless population in Portland is fucking insane.
And I just like, who are we to stick our noses up at like, other country thinking that we're better when, like, there's other countries are doing so many things, right? And America is just, as we all know, I don't, you know, I, Yeah. Lots
Kiele: [00:23:00] doing it a bit wrong lately. Um, you know, we used to be, The greatest country we used to be. And things have just gone real sour. It's so funny that you mention about other countries cuz my, my virtual assistant is in Zimbabwe and I tell her about the healthcare here and she is just floored.
She's like, I can't believe that, you
Eva: Same in Taiwan. And when I, my cousin, when I tell her about like mass shootings, she's like, cannot comprehend. And she literally said, she was like, If that, if I lived where that was happening, I couldn't live my life. Like that's what she said. Cuz that's, how do you explain that to people and like that children are dying And she's like, I don't understand how that exists.
It's, You shouldn't be able to understand that, you know?
Kiele: Yeah. I agree. Last week was really, um, eye opening because, you know, the gun rights laws, um, got passed in a way. Yeah. And then, uh, that the same, on the same [00:24:00] day. Women's rights were taken away. So it's just like a weird place we're in. Um, I just, I don't wanna get too far in the negative of it because the, I can really go down that rabbit hole I'm sure a lot of us can.
Um, which is why I just, I just live my life every day to the fullest and just try to be as happy as possible because we're only here once. Right. Um, but it is, going back to what you were saying, it is really scary here and a lot of other countries are, they just, they're doing it right. And, um, most people think of Mexico like, Oh, Super third world, but they're not, They're so not, it's not even like that.
It's, that's, that's laughable.
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And I will say though, cuz we actually, you know, we're, we have you here to talk about other things and so I definitely wanna make sure that we focus on that.
So, but if you are feeling like, you know, maybe it's overwhelming and the news is like, you know, you can spiral down the, down into the hole.
I just wanna recommend that you guys all check out our last week's episode with Marissa [00:25:00] because it was such a great, short and sweet actually, um, support for both. Yeah. Nourishing, I think about, about all of this stuff. Yeah. So we have that
Kyley: So you're off the hook from having to solve our emotional distress. Kelly
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Oh my gosh.
Kyley: I will actually say, when your name came across our inbox, I got so excited because obviously like our, you know, our show's about spirituality and, you know, the kind of journey of dropping deeper into ourselves and, um, all transparency food is just a complicated place for me personally, and I know for a lot of us.
And so, um, yeah, it is with entirely selfish reasons that I'm just really excited to learn more about, um, the, the space that you hold. Because immediately upon like reading more about your work, it was clear to me that you're holding space in a different way, right? That's not about this, like, you know, Diet culture or, you know, fix it [00:26:00] oriented mindset around food.
And I think, again, just speaking of my own personal history, I have, it has often felt unavailable for me to engage with that kind of like diet culture stuff. And also I have for a long time wanted a different relationship with food, right? I've wanted it to feel more like nourishing and easeful. And it has felt like, okay, there's, there is a, there is a good solution out there, but I don't know what it is.
Um, and so, so I'm just really thrilled to have you here and, and, and, yeah, speaking from your wisdom,
Eva: Yeah, and, and bef, I'm gonna jump in real quick slide in here. To add to that, I also really love this idea of food connected to sensuality because it's something that I think I've. often thought of, but don't think I have the language or the experience for, and I think you're the person, perfect person to come on here and maybe shed some sh shed some light on that connection.
Kiele: very excited about this conversation and I, um, thank you for, for, for sharing all of that. And, uh, [00:27:00] yeah, I'm excited to shift to your thought process on food and not just food cooking. You know, really a lot of what I talk about is how to prepare your food and how to connect to your food and, um, it's a skill that a lot of people look at as a pain in the ass and they don't have time.
And what they're really saying is they don't have time to nourish themselves and they don't have time to. Feed themselves good food to gain energy and feel satiated and feel good about themselves. And, um, that's really where I start the shift with the people that work with me. So I love this topic. I could talk about it all day.
It lights me on fire. It's really
Eva: Well, I know when I think that I don't have time to cook, really what that is, what's happening in those moments is I feel disconnected from food. And I think, and I I I, I have the experience of both of being really connected with food in like a, in a beautiful way in like this. [00:28:00] It does feel spiritual.
Um, and also then getting really busy or caught up in other things. And really, when I say I don't have time, yeah, it just feels like I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting actually that there's something joyful about, about our connection to food if we have the space and, and, and the resources and, and all that stuff.
So, yeah.
Kyley: And just to, uh, add on that too, one of the big things that I've observed is for years I've been the kind of person that's like, um, like, oh, I don't, like, I don't, I don't enjoy the day to day cooking, Right. I'm a like, I'll cook on Sunday. I use every dish in the house and then I won't cook again for the rest of the week.
Right. But, um, but often have felt like, Oh, it's just annoying. I don't know. I'll just eat cereal. Right? Like, I'm kind of famous for like, just, I'll just have toast. I'll just have cereal because it's just too much work. I'll eat, I eat a lot, you know, a lot of
Kiele: We all, we all go through that. I go through that. I'm not saying that that's gonna disappear, but what I'm saying is that, you know, there are [00:29:00] other ways to enjoy even that process.
Kyley: and what was fascinating to me and like a really big light bulb moment was once my kids were born, and I made all the time in the world like, Oh, my daughter will, my, like, she needs all, she needs the crus cut off my, my son wants this food. My daughter, Oops. You don't want the oranges. I just cut off like, Right.
Like I will, I will my, my, my, you know. Oh are you, I I I watch their emotions as it relates to when they might be hungry. I like really make ti time to, oh, we're leaving the house. Has everybody had fruit for the day? Right. Like I put so much energy and attention and it really made me realize how much it wasn't that, uh, and isn't that food is complicated or too much, it's that, uh, like my kids' needs are fine.
Right. It really was, is very clear to me that it's actually a better relationship with like, am I willing to make my own needs and desires important? Um,
Kiele: Like you love
Kyley: do it for them.[00:30:00]
Kiele: Right. But where's the love for yourself in those moments? Where's the love for yourself? I have to tell you a story. I have a client, um, who. For her 60th birthday. Her two daughters gifted her my program. This was a couple years ago, and at the time I had a six week program and I extended it to 12 now.
So anyway, um, she, her whole life had a very terrible relationship with food because she felt like, She wasn't worthy. And it all stems from your childhood and your past. And from when she was a very young age, she had a lot of siblings and her family was very poor. And so she was told she can't eat a lot of food, and food is too expensive and only certain days of the week they can have like a full meal and they could only afford to eat really bad food.
So she grew up with that thought and belief in her head and made that her story her entire life. And that [00:31:00] bled into her relationships, her work, her family, everything. And it wasn't until she was like in her late fifties, she started realizing that she was worth it. Within all that time of her whole entire life, she had eating disorders.
Um, she had a terrible relationship with any kind of food. She didn't like to cook, she didn't like to nourish herself and really struggled with depression until her late fifties. Then she started realizing, Wait, wait, wait. I can rewrite this narrative and these are my beliefs that I've had since I was a kid, but they're actually not my.
At all. So it took some time for her to rewrite her beliefs and create a new story for what was current in her life. And so then together we learned, uh, she took my group program. So she learned how to find the joy in cooking and make it pleasure filled and accept herself and give herself the self love that she deserves.
And it's still a [00:32:00] struggle for her today. You know, I'm not saying that, Oh my God, after my program, you'll be cured. No, This is gonna be a constant in your life if you spent 60 years of your life feeling and thinking one way and not nothing overnight is gonna change. Right. And it's, um, it takes a lot of willpower and uh, and strength and courage to bring it back to yourself and say, No, I deserve this.
And take the steps, um, and take action to change. It really does. You know, So
Eva: Yeah, it is beautiful.
Kiele: I just had to share that.
Eva: It's beautiful.
Kiele: We all go through our struggles. Um,
Eva: yeah, we do. But also food is hu I don't know. Food is, I, it's just I love food. I, and I think anyone who knows me, like in real life, like Kylie and I, we don't get to eat together that often, but like, I think
Kyley: Even I know you love
Eva: Yeah, okay. You know, I love food.
Like I think I'm a, my friends associate with me with food because it's just, I think part of it is also culturally like Taiwanese people,
Kiele: you guys got great [00:33:00] food.
Eva: great food, great
Kiele: all about it. You're all about the food. Mm-hmm.
Eva: tourist, you're not going to go see things. You come to Taiwan to eat things. And the question that we ask ourselves, like, you know, instead of asking How are you, The version of that in, in Chinese is like, Have you eaten yet?
Yeah. Because food, So when I see my grandparents or when the first question they ask me is like, Have you eaten? Because that's how we check in and say, How are you? Like, are you okay? Are you getting getting what you need? And then they feed you. So
Kiele: I feel that in my culture, I'm from Guam and so it's very close to Asia. And instead of, you know, when someone comes in, you don't say, How are you? You say, come and eat. Like immediately you're forced to eat something and if you don't eat something it's disrespectful. So, you know, that's how it is in my culture.
Culture. It's hilarious.
Eva: But it's complicated. It's also complicated. So it's like there's all this cultural stuff around it and also biological stuff. So I think food is just an interesting topic because it's this beautiful thing, but it's also really fucking [00:34:00] complicated. And it, and to, I think what the story, what your story reminded me of is that food can really fuck some shit up too.
You know what I mean? and play a huge role in our life.
Kiele: yeah, it can, it can go in all different directions. Um, and then to get to the part where you enjoy cooking is like a totally different hurdle too. Um, I, I love talking about sensual cooking and sensual nourishment. It's really sort of my bread and butter and what I've created with my company. And no one else is really doing this, but I just, the two just fit together for me.
Um, but I wanna explain to your listeners what that means. Cause I'm sure they don't know what the heck it means. Um, so to me, sensual nourishment means experiencing life, using all of your senses and living in gratitude every day. That is sensual nourishment. It's the ability to nourish your whole self and soul with healing in mind.
A thing I really focus [00:35:00] on in my work is healing. It's not healthy, it's healing. There's a big difference. I think too many people focus on what's healthy and what's right they associate healthy with. Right. And I think that's wrong because that doesn't help someone connect to yourself and your body. So, You know, really for me, one of the core focuses of of my work is nourishment through self-love, self-acceptance and having a deep understanding of your own nourishment needs is imperative because eva, what you need is very different from what Kylie needs and very different from what I need.
The truth is there is no one diet, there's no one way of living, and there's no one way of eating because everyone is different and requires different nourishments. So I really help women identify what that is for them while tapping into their sensuality and teaching them how to nourish themselves. So my methodologies are very different.
I like to connect nutrition, wellness, sensuality altogether in [00:36:00] one big yarn, ball of love.
Eva: I love
Kiele: Yeah.
Kyley: Can I ask what your own journey with, um, cooking and whatnot is?
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Where should I start? Um, let me see. I'll start from the beginning. Uh, I grew up, um, on Guam and I live in Austin, Texas now. And, uh, I'm a natural born creative. I graduated in 2004 from Pratt Institute in Brooklyn.
It's an
Eva: Oh, I lived right next to Pratt on
Kiele: Did
Eva: Yeah, . And I actually had a bunch of friends who went to Pratt. Yeah.
Kiele: I I, Man, I know Taffy so well, like that street. I lived on Clifton Place between Classon and Franklin for like two years. Uh, Brad is a, it's a, it's a fun place to be and a lot of people live around there. It's
Eva: Yeah. Great people. Great neighborhood,
Kiele: When did you live there?
Eva: Uh, I think I left in 2016, so I think I was there from like, for like five years before that. 11 maybe? 2011, 2016. Yeah.
Kiele: Wow. So the neighborhood changed by [00:37:00] the time you got there. It already was like getting super nice. When I was there, it was the ghetto and
Eva: Oh yeah.
Kiele: have a bicycle, um, with an easy lock, like a secure lock, but an easy one. So if you were like running from gangs, you could just like go. It was like that
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, it was a rough, It was a rough, yeah, it was definitely gentrified by the time I got
Kiele: Oh my god.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's changed a lot. So anyway, I lived in New York, um, for 20 years and was, had a totally, totally different career. I worked as a handbag and accessories designer in the fashion industry for 15. And, uh, in 2008, I suffered a seven month long metal poisoning that left me very sick and in need of some serious, like self care, self-love, and I needed to prioritize my nourishment.
And at the time I was like 27 or something and I didn't know what the heck to do. So anyway, I just was like feeling all the things as, you know, a New York woman like hustling, you know, just not taking care of myself in the [00:38:00] ways that I should. And I suffered from burnout, confusion, illness, stress, all of those things.
Eva: Can I interrupt really quick and ask, how did you find out that you had a metal poisoning?
Kiele: Oh, um, I was in China. With my coworker. I used to travel to China like six times a year all the time back then. And, uh, both of her parents were research doctors. And so she took pictures of my body because I had rashes and lesions from like the top of my head to the bottoms of my feet. Like I looked like my skin was just falling off and red and gross, and I was on a lot of steroids.
So she sent pictures to them and they were both research doctors in Seattle, and they were like, It looks like you have some kind of poisoning something, it like inflammation and poisoning. And by the way, the doctors at NYU and the New York Allergy Center did not know what the heck was wrong with me.
Like they just kept giving me steroids and kept taking biopsies and saying, You have an infection. And I'm like, Yes, I know. Tell me where it's coming from. And they just couldn't do it. And so it took [00:39:00] that, and plus the internet back then wasn't as great. And so I was just researching for hours. And so then it turned out they were like, it seems like a metal thing in your body.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: I realized that six months prior I got metal braces in my mouth to straighten my teeth and hadn't, hadn't thought about it because who thinks about that kind of stuff? So I went to my orthodontist and she confirmed that the brace system that I had in my mouth had 15% nickel and I just happened to be allergic to nickel and they didn't test that at the allergy center.
So they, once she took them out, I felt better, but I wasn't anywhere near healed. So,
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, I mean, it was affecting my nervous system, my skin, um, I, my liver, my kidneys, like all of my elimination organs, my stomach, I mean every organ was kind of in shock, my lungs. Um, so.
Eva: crazy.
Kiele: it was crazy. So I took a year to clean myself out and got really [00:40:00] strict, um, about what I put in my body and just got off all the drugs and stopped going to the doctors and just read every book I could about food and healing.
And back then, plant-based veganism was just coming out as popular in like 2007, 2008. So I just hopped right on that bandwagon and became fully vegan back then. I. It, it evolved into plant base, but because, but back then they had like, you know, vegan burgers of everything. Vegan was just coming out. It hasn't turned cultish yet at that
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: so and so, uh, I, it, it, it took me a year to clean myself out and, um, then I became like a super preacher, veganism, and, uh, when was that? 2008, 2009. And then in 2014, I decided to enroll myself, um, in the right education because I really wanted to learn more. What I found was I love knowing, like, and I love this [00:41:00] knowledge.
Um, I love being passionate about my nutrition. But I didn't really know where to take it. And I wanted to have like a health coaching kind of certificate. But at the same time, I really wanted to learn good skills. And so I found this great school in New York called the Natural Gourmet Institute, and it is the only, I think, found there's more.
But at the time, it was the only health supportive culinary school in the States. And I enrolled myself for a year. So I learned, I mean, about cooking, healing, nutrition, Chinese medicine, our Veda, um, it was a real culinary school. So I learned about all the things and it was a great year of my life. And I was still working full-time in the fashion industry throughout all of this.
And I started part-time chefing gigs. I started, um,
Kyley: Can I, Can I, Sorry, can I just pause cuz I love the sound of this school. Like I wanna like [00:42:00] create an alternate path in life in which I go to this school cuz it sounds so fucking great. I'm like, I wanna know all of these things.
Kiele: It was fantastic. Um, I, I didn't just want like a health coaching certificate. I, I didn't, and I looked up all the, you know, health coaching places and was like, eh, this isn't really what I want. I want skills. Because during the time that I was healing, I found that I really loved eating. I loved to cook, but I didn't have the proper skills and I wanted to learn the proper skills.
And I found that cooking was really the barrier that people have when it comes to getting better. If you don't like to cook, you're never gonna do it because you can hand someone like a meal plan all day long and say, Here, follow this. But if they don't have the passion to be in the kitchen, and if they don't have the skills to know how to chop, you know, a carrot properly in like five different ways, or, you know, if they don't understand temperature, they don't understand the energetics of cooking, they're never gonna do it.
Eva: It's
Kyley: if every single step feels [00:43:00] complicated, Right. This is why like, you know, my husband is mostly cooking. I have like five recipes because it's like, um, if every single step feels complicated, then it, it's emotionally it's a huge lift. Right? Whereas if you have the foundation of like, Oh, okay, I know, like I know the foundations, it's just not the same emotional
Kiele: No, yet you'll love it. Even something like cleaning and doing dishes all is incorporated in this training. You learn cuz a lot of people hate to wash dishes. You learn how to
Kyley: Oh, have you been the fly on the wall in my marriage,
Kiele: No,
Kyley: I even have a therapist once who was like, You've been fighting about the dishes for a decade. I'm like, I know. I know. I know.
Kiele: I have a YouTube video on my YouTube channel of how to find pleasure in washing dishes. I'm gonna send it to you
Kyley: Please do. My husband would He'll yeah. It would be very pleased if I watched this video,
Eva: hope. Yeah.
Kiele: I, I got together at like a, a women's, not a group, but like a women's wellness get together here in [00:44:00] Austin of just like, actually it wasn't even wellness. It was like female entrepreneurs in Austin just getting together and hanging out. And there's one girl on there who is hilarious. She was just like, Oh, I hate to cook.
And I was like, Is it cooking though? She's like, No, I just hate washing dishes. And in about five minutes I single-handedly switched and changed her mind and shifted how she thought about dishes just by talking about and identifying little things that she hated. And I'm like, Well, what if you like got better? Like dishware? What do you what? And she's like, Oh, I hate my dishes. I was like, Then get new ones. And she was like, Oh, you solved my problem. I'm like, And then I was like, And what if you got the dishware you like and think about it like an honor. The dishes that feed you, you know, then connecting it back to spirituality, that's what you guys talk about, right?
And so like the, these dishes are what feeds you and your family. And if you honor that, like think of them as another tool in your kitchen that you use. And that's how you start to think about all the stuff, um, and all the things in your kitchen. So you [00:45:00] respect them
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: completely different thing. It kind of changes the game a little bit.
Kyley: interesting. Okay. Sorry, I'm just gonna follow this train. Uh, I'm feeling resentful as you're proposing that I like my dishes. Like, like actual, my body's response is like,
Kiele: You're like, No,
Kyley: like cranky. It's like I'm cranky at the dishes themselves that I'm like, How dare you ask me. Anyways, this is an interesting, Clearly the dishes have a lot of emotions that I can sit with, is what I'm trying to say.
Kiele: Nice. I have, um,
Kyley: watch your YouTube video and then consult my journal
Kiele: Yeah, write it out. Um, I have one client that realized like, Oh my God, I eat on paper plates and all of my cups are plastic. And I'm like, Why is that? She said, Because I have a kid. I'm like, So she was like, Oh my God. It just, she just, her per perspective changed and she was like, I gotta get better dishes.
And then she really started loving cooking and plating things taking pictures of [00:46:00] her food and like showing it off. It was like completely game
Kyley: are actually giving me a huge aha. Oh my God, this is fucking great. Okay, so what I'm realizing, cause I'm sitting here thinking like, what is the part of the dishes that I hate? And you know what it is? It's when like, things are really, Cause we don't have a dishwasher, so
Kiele: that's a big thing.
Kyley: it's terrible. And our, we just don't, like, there's no way to, to fix anything in our kitchen is like a hundred grand project.
So like, we don't have a dishwasher. Um, and, um, and I don't, I, it's actually when like dishes are gr like, like really dirty,
Eva: Yeah. I think things are like caked on there.
Kyley: or just like, like if it's like, like if it's like a plate that had toast on it, or even like your plate that had chicken on it, that's fine. But it's when there's like gunky stuff on it. So I'm realizing if I just rinse off all the gunky stuff when I first put them in the sink,
Eva: Oh my god. Girl. Facts. Like that's a thing. Like, that's like how my, like my parents are like, they like instilled [00:47:00] that in me cuz they could get mad when things got stuck on the dishes and No, you always have to like rinse it off
Kiele: Yeah. Or soak it or soak
Kyley: I soak, so I'm a big, That's, that's what I do is I soak it. But what I'm realizing is that soaking, it still leaves it like grow. Like I don't wanna touch it later.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: So if I just rinse it out,
Kiele: rinse it out.
Kyley: it by the way. I just rinse it out. And then I have just a stack of dishes that are like, eh, not that dirty. don't have to touch anything gross.
Eva: Oh, this is real. I mean, I know this is like a, a small quote, small thing, but I actually find it very
Kiele: But it's a big thing though. It's a really big issue because a lot of people equate not liking to cook with dish washing, and then they realize, oh, it's not even the cooking thing. It's dish washing, which is like step three, right?
Kyley: like also, yeah, and it's like a big emotional component of like, honestly, since apparently I'm just making this my own personal coaching session. Thanks everybody. It's also like a big component of like, Like a certain guilt that I feel in my marriage, cuz my husband does like, like cooking more.
So he [00:48:00] cooks more often, but he also notices when things is full more so he ends up cooking and cleaning more, which is like, that's shitty, that's not fair for anybody. Right. Um, and so, so I just feel like a kind of low grade guilt all the time in the kitchen. So this feels,
Kiele: It's triggering.
Kyley: it's actually like I'm almost sitting here like, oh, I could even split the task in half where like in the morning I just rinse everything out and then I come back in the afternoon and actually wash them.
Like, like space is actually, this literally has been an issue in my marriage for 10 years. So like, this is big pal. Thanks a bunch,
Kiele: now, no problem. I, you know, I have my rules about like being in the kitchen and things being clean. So one of them is, don't fuck with my knives, because I love my knives and I'm very OCD about my knives. And if someone uses it, wash it and wipe it clean and dry right away. And I, I, I have to, It's a thing.
Um, and [00:49:00] another tip, if you don't like to wash dishes is when you cook, make sure your sink is completely clean and clear because it sucks to cook. And then have your, your sink completely filled with stuff already. It's. Making the problem even worse. So what I like to do is have my sink completely clear of any dishes so that way I can get as messy as I want if I want to.
But that's one thing I really do love to teach is the the dance between the kitchen sink and the stove and the cutting board and just how it could all be like one amazing dance. You know?
Kyley: Well, and I mean, I know I'm being kind of silly and really like making us
Kiele: You're not being silly.
Kyley: but I think what's, what feels so beautiful about this is like what I, I can see in your magic is the overwhelm of kitchen cooking food that keeps people feeling like, I don't know what to do with any of it.
I just don't like any [00:50:00] of it. I'll keep eating toast. It's like, uh, yeah. This way of like breaking it down into tinier pieces and then making those pieces feel safe and accessible. And that is, yeah, this is just very
Eva: Yeah. And examining things I think that maybe people don't usually examine
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Um, I really love, so you mentioned toast. One of the things I really love to do is help women understand why they want to eat certain foods. Because we all have cravings, right? And cravings stem from a feeling they stem from, you know, something we're doing. They stem from so many things. And since we're women, we're cyclical.
So like, we're feeling all kinds of things every week, like, and it's all different at all times. So one of the things I really love to focus on is teaching women. Not just what, but why? Cause I think that's super important. Um, a lot of what my work, uh, how do I say this in English? A lot of what my [00:51:00] what, uh, the focus of my work has to do a lot with Chinese medicine and how it relates to food.
So I teach about flavors and you know, how to not only make food delicious, but actually how certain flavors can heal your organs and control your emotions that you go through. So you mentioned toast and anytime people have toast, a lot of times it's wheat, right? They're at some kind of bread sourdough.
Internally that's very grounding. You wanna feel very satiated and grounded. And a lot of times people have that with butter or a jam, right? Um, and so that sweet flavor of a jam, if you have it on your toast, like paired with the crunch that you have, and then the silkiness and savoriness of like the butter and saltiness of the butter, it all sort of works together.
And all of those things do something different for your body. Um, and so it's really fun. So the sweet flavors, let's say if you have Strawberry Jam, I like to get really scientific with this stuff. And this is all Chinese medicine. [00:52:00] Um, the
Eva: mouth. I'm laughing because, Yeah, sorry, I'm laughing because I met my, my, I can feel myself salivating the, the, the, just like the talking about like the crunch of the toast and like the, the sweetness of the jam. It's like, it, uh, it's just, I'm having a physical reaction
Kiele: Yeah. Like do I want that right now?
Eva: Well, I love jam and toast. That's why, And I know like crave it for comfort. Like for me it's very much like a, this feels like it's, Yeah. Grounding
Kiele: Grounding. Mm-hmm. . Like, who doesn't love it? If you don't love it? You, I hate to say it, but you're a little crazy. But anyway, um, the sweetness of the jam also makes you really excited because sugar brings that feeling of joy in you. Also, on top of that sweetness, just sweet as a flavor. And I'm not talking about like sugar, right?
But I'm talking about sweet, natural flavors, like sweetness from strawberry, your cherry grape jam that actually is really nourishing for your stomach and your spleen according to Chinese medicine. And so there's so many different things that go on, and I really love to educate women, not just like what, but [00:53:00] why and how, and how all of the flavors connect to each other four different purposes.
Um, and that's how you connect to nature. I mean, it's all crazy complicated and really fun to learn. Not complicated. I think it's complicated at first, but you, you end up real, Yeah. You end up realizing that like, Every decision that you make about food, there's a purpose behind it. And there are certain, there are certain things that you crave and there are reasons why.
I'll give you a great example. So whenever people have hangovers, you wake up the next morning and you're feeling like absolute garbage crap shit. And a lot of times people just feel like they're not, like, they're just kind of out there, you know, like, like you can't really focus very well,
Eva: totally out of it. Floating. Like, I get really bad hangovers now, which is one reason I, I barely drink anymore, cuz my hangovers are just not worth it. But yeah, it is like a, it's like I'm not here. It's like I'm just, [00:54:00] I,
Kiele: You're somewhere else.
Eva: yeah. My brain isn't working.
Kiele: So in Chinese medicine, that's what's called expansive, right? There are two, um, opposing, um, theories. Uh, let me say that again. There's a theory in Chinese medicine, um, about expansiveness and ness, and they're polar opposites from each other, but they need each other. Sort of like the concept of yin and yang.
It's the same kind of thing. And I know everyone's heard of yin and yang, so when you are hung over, you are expansive, you're feeling very outward, like you're, you're the opposite of grounded. And so the first thing that people reach for when they're hung over, um, besides if you're the type of person, if you know you need another drink, that's very. But the first thing that people reach for is some kind of breakfast, comfort food, like eggs with bacon and toast and potatoes, right? Oftentimes like hash browns or something else. So if you think about the flavors and you think about what those foods are, [00:55:00] um, especially potatoes, they're grown in the ground, right?
So they're immediately kind of grounding. And the way people like it is salty because you need to replenish all the salt in your body, right? So what you're really craving is something super grounding. My favorite thing to have and to eat when I'm hungover is me. So soup, it'll cure you. Like that
Eva: Really?
Kiele: thing?
Yes,
Eva: were you? Like five years ago
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: or like 10 years ago?
Kiele: Favorite thing. So for all listeners, if you ever get hung over, have some miso soup because the salt from the miso is super nourishing for you. It'll give you the electrolytes you need, the seaweed, um, and the nutrients from the seaweed will give you all the vi the vitamins and minerals that you just got rid of.
The tofu will give you protein if that's in it, you know, I mean, it's like the greatest thing for you. So if you ever get hung over, trust me, have some miso soup the next day you will feel right as rain. It's fantastic. But that's just the power of flavor. And not [00:56:00] just that, the miso and the seaweed, they're all part of the water element in Chinese medicine.
So that brings the hydration back into your body and makes you feel really calm and soothed and, uh, all of that. So it's pretty fun to learn about.
Eva: that's really cool.
Kiele: So,
Kyley: Yeah, I am. Oh my God, the nerd in me is like, wants to just break down every favorite
Eva: food. Yeah.
Kyley: and like why and what it's doing.
Eva: can, can we do one, I'm curious, like what, is there like a go-to that you have,
Kiele: Um, What do you mean?
Eva: Oh, I'm talking asking Kylie if
Kiele: Oh, okay.
Kyley: I mean, for me it's like my go-to is always like some kind of like, like crunchy red product
Kiele: Crunchy bread, product
Kyley: Like, um, like, like crackers, toast, cereal, sometimes chips, but less so. Oh, you know what? Okay. Recently, this is a new, this is like my, like the past, like in a couple of months my like go-to comfort snack food.
Not, it's not historically, but it's been recently is what my kids call cheesy chips. [00:57:00] Aka like tortilla chips with some cheddar cheese on them. But for some reason they call them cheesy chips instead of nachos. Um, but it's like, not it. Yeah. I was actually just thinking, I wonder why this has become a, like, snack that I want all the time because it's not, it hasn't like historically been a comfort food, but
Kiele: So chips, like potato chips or like
Kyley: No, like tortilla corn, tortilla
Kiele: Okay. I mean, you know, corn and just, I mean, forget the chip part of it, but just corn as a food is part of the earth element. And I can go over the elements just to give you a little bit more knowledge. Um, if your listeners don't know and if you don't know about the elements, but corn is an earth element.
Food, which is immediately, again, like very grounding. It's grown on a stock. And so it's super strong for your body if you like, begets like, so if something grows in a stock and is really strong, it's like close to the ground. Also, earth element foods are almost always orange, yellow, or light brown in color.
That immediately is going to ground you. And again, corn is sweet, right? [00:58:00] Sweet, sweet flavors are part of the earth element. And so the sweet flavors nourish your stu and your spleen. They make you feel like really creative and imaginative, but you know, there's a yin and yang in everything. So if it goes a little bit dark, having too much of earth element foods like.
Corn, potatoes, uh, sweet potatoe squashes. It could actually create some worry within you. And so it's really fun to kind of learn what food can do for your body and also to note where you're at emotionally and mentally, um, and how to combat that with food and with cooking, because the way you prepare your food also makes a difference, right?
So, you know, a raw onion is a very different thing from like a cook sweet onion. And that process is very different in your body and you have different reactions from that. So super fun to learn about. And the cheese on top of that. Um, So it, what? It depends on what kind of cheese, I guess, like cheddar, something like that.
[00:59:00] Um, I mean, cheese is super salty. It has that really umami, savory flavor. Um, and it's just so, I mean, I love cheese even though having too much of it is like not so good for me. But cheese is really, really good because it brings feelings of, let me see, like, hmm, how do I say this in English? Um, like being organized.
I mean, it sounds kind of crazy that like cheese will help you be organized. I don't mean that, but it's all, I promise it all like works together in Chinese medicine, but it really benefits like sluggish people. It makes you feel like really good. It's a great source of, um, protein, you know, nutrients, vitamins, all of that stuff.
And so, and it's also like fat too. It's good quality fat. So that on top with the, you know, nachos or the tortilla chips, it kind of makes sense to me, you know?
Kyley: What's funny is also just for the record, like I also eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I'm just being honest about [01:00:00] like, you know, my comfort foods just for the
Eva: so funny, Kylie. I hadn't even thought of that,
Kyley: I self conscious, like, um, but what I think is, I'm really intrigued by what your point about like too much. Um, earth element can bring on worry because one of the things like when I was, especially when I was younger, I've talked on the show often about high, like had like a ton of anxiety in my twenties, um, and into my thirties.
Um, and I had this like really cyclical relationship with like, like that I was really aware that I started to become very aware of, of how like my anxiety would spike and I would re, I would reach for like, uh, earthy, mostly carbohydrate, like red products. Um, like literally to like quell an anxiety attack.
And, and I started to observe how like, it was also like, anyway, there's just this, there was like very clearly like a link between these two things. So, um, I like that Chinese medicine speaks [01:01:00] to what some, a pattern that I saw in myself when I was in my twenties. So I think that's, that's super fascinating.
Kiele: lot of people go through that and I think, um, that. Clearly you have your comfort foods. I mean, we all have comfort food. Um, but it's so fun to learn about how Chinese medicine works when it comes to food and learn about cravings and like why certain things exist.
Kyley: Because then you can actually tend to the real thing,
Kiele: you can, Yes, and I think the main.
Um, the main message here is to just, with Chinese medicine in general and even our veta, is to have balance. You know, Um, no one element is better than the other. No one food is better than the other. I am not your typical nutrition and cooking wellness expert that says, Oh my God, don't eat bread. Because I do think that bread, if you know, baked well, and it has good ingredients, has a place in our life.
I'm not the type of person to say, Oh, don't have butter and make everything low fat. [01:02:00] No, I, I think the more natural and whole, the better. And I think the main message is have a variety of all of those things, and make sure you have foods of all color and all texture, variety is really what's going to make you live longer and make you feel good in a whole, and balanced.
And that's just it. So for me, the five elements really helps with this.
Kyley: Actually speaking on the five elements, um, I, I mean, I know them from like a witchy perspective, , but I would love it if you could walk us through the five elements and sort of put them in the context of, of, of your work and Chinese medicine. I think
Eva: And I would say, I feel like my aunt's been trying to teach me about my element since I was like a kid. And sometimes I would just be like, Oh, like I don't, you know, I don't know if you guys know, but like Asian parents, families can be so particular about Chinese medicine and like they get really, you're not supposed to eat anything cold, essentially, like ever.
And they give you [01:03:00] shit for eating cold things, which is
Kiele: Yes.
Eva: anyway, so that's a whole thing. So sometimes I like, I want, I think it'll be good for me to hear it from you also, from someone who I think can break it down in like really practical terms
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Kyley: this like what reminds me of when, Sorry. Just as an aside, like my husband will say the same thing, like he'll like give me the same advice all the time and then I'll come home one day and I'll be like, You know what Eva said? And he's like, What
Eva: totally. Exactly. Exactly. It's like it's, it sinks in so easily when it's from
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. He's like, Oh really? That's great advice. I'm so glad you heard that
Eva: Okay.
Kiele: Oh my gosh. Um, I know what you mean about, uh, Asian parents. I've been to China a lot in Hong Kong, a lot in Japan and different parts of Asia. And the, the one, number one rule is always don't have anything cold. You have things warm all the time. I'll tell you a funny story really quick before I dive into it.
Um, I used to go work at factories a lot because I was a designer and I'd stay at these factories, you know, all day for like [01:04:00] two to four weeks at a time. And I was always so confused because in like downtown Shenzen in a factory, There would be like these cool, not coolers, but these dispensers of tea and with piping hot tea and it's like 105 degrees in this factory, but these people are drinking tea.
And I'm like, What are they doing? I don't get
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: You know, like, what is happening? And they're like, Oh, actually internally it cools you down. I'm like, Still don't get it. But the more I learned, the more I started to understand that process, that it wasn't necessarily about the heat of the liquid, it was about what happened internally in your body, um, and how it cooled things down, and also more importantly, how it kept your digestion flowing properly.
And so it was really, yeah, it was really interesting. So my nutrition philosophy is very different from other nutrition experts and professionals out there. I really love to focus on root cause healing, mind body, soul connection, and ancient food wisdom, which is [01:05:00] based on traditional Chinese medicine and Aveda, which are for people who don't know, to ancient medical practices that have existed for thousands of years.
So that's really one of, um, my core philosophies in my work is educating women on the healing energetic properties of food versus, like I said earlier, the healthy nutritional properties of food. So I really love to teach about the energy system and how the energy system rules all other systems in your body.
It rules the digestive system, the nervous system, the circulatory system, the respiratory system, the reproductive system, all the other systems. Um, and additionally, I love to take it to the next level by teaching the healing energetic properties of cooking. all is based on our senses because in order to really understand what is going on with our bodies and understand these, um, this ancient food wisdom, you have to start with what's closest to nature.
And that's what I [01:06:00] love about Chinese medicine. So let's talk about the elements really quick. So for those of you who don't know, there are five elements. There's fire, earth, water, metal, and wood, right? Did you know what those elements were?
Eva: Yeah. I mean, those are the elements that I, I know. I know, but I don't know. I don't know that I'd, How to dis distinguish them.
Kiele: Okay, so there's, there's five elements, and these five elements correspond with different things in nature and in real life, right? Just in life. Uh, they correspond with a season with organs in your body, with emotions that you feel with flavors like we talked about, and it's a really great way to see what's going on with your body where.
Signs of imbalance and where you feel balanced. So let's go over one at a time since we're in the summertime. Let's start with fire right now. Um, it's, we're in the heat of the fire element. We just kind of started in Austin. It's like 105 degrees. So it's very hot. Um, and the season, like I said, is like [01:07:00] summertime.
Um, the fire element corresponds with your heart and your small intestine. So any food that is part of the fire elements, um, and in that category nourishes your heart and your small intestine. Typically, they have to do with. Red foods. So think of a red bell pepper. If you look at it, it kind of looks like a heart.
Think of a strawberry. Same thing. It's a fire element. Food that nourishes your heart and your small intestine. The emotions that fire, the fire element brings to your body and brings to your life are feelings of joy and laughter. If you also think about how people are in the summertime, everyone's happy, everyone's out, it's hot, everyone feels great, and when you feel really good, your heart is nourished.
Right now, everything can go dark too, right? If you have too much fire, you can get really overheated, and that can cause anxiety. You know, you can become [01:08:00] manic about certain. So it can also go that way. But really, you know what the fire element foods should do is bring you feelings of joy and laughter.
Now, if you, if you have too much of the fire element within you and you're eating too much fire foods, um, there are certain things that show you signs of imbalance. So let's say you're depressed, um, you have insomnia, you have really heavy heart palpitations. Anything that has to do with your heart, like panic attacks, you feel restless, you have too much mental stimulation going on, or you feel really overwhelmed.
That's too much of the fire element that you need to cool down
Eva: Oh, interesting. So how do you Cool that down.
Kiele: Well, I would combat that with, um, water element foods for sure. And having wood element foods. So that's why it all is connected
Kyley: Mm
Eva: Okay. That
Kiele: Yeah. So moving on. So after summertime, we're gonna get into the period where we used to call Indian summer, but I guess we can't for like political politically correct reasons now.
So we just call it late summer and [01:09:00] um, that's represented by the earth element. So the earth element is super important because it still has the largest category of foods, and to me it's the most important I like to look at. Earth element, like the buffer element. So if ever you're feeling imbalanced in any way, bring it back to earth, which is why Kylie, for you, you know, whenever you're feeling a certain kind of way, your comfort food, I mean both of you, your comfort foods are like starchy, earthy kind of foods.
It's very natural what you go through. So again, um, the earth element corresponds with the late summer season, which is right before fall. And if you think about what's going on, everything's kind of turning orange. And yellow. And you know, outside like leaves are turning, um, the foods that are the most dominant are squashes, um, zucchini, yellow squash, corn, um, rices and grains.
Carrots. Yep, exactly. So all of those foods are pretty orange and yellow in color. And all of those, um, nourish our [01:10:00] stomach and our spleen. That's the corresponding organ organs with the earth element. The feelings that the earth element brings you are to feel really grounded and at peace and comforted, right?
Again, if it goes in a bit of a dark direction. If you're like too grounded, you can feel very, you know, worried and pensive. Um, and signs of imbalance there. If you know the earth element's completely imbalanced at your body are gas, bloating, poor digestion, loose stools, constipation, um, fatigue, weight gain, ibs, anything that has to do with the stomach, basically.
Oh, um, I forgot to mention, unless I did, I don't know. I'm just going on. I'm talking. Um, the dominant flavor for the earth element, air sweet flavors and the dominant element element for the fire, I'm sorry, the dominant flavor for the fire element are bitter flavors.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: anything bitter in flavor, that's what you want during the summertime.
So like, think beer, right? Like [01:11:00] beer, like, like a ni there's nothing better than like a nice cold beer in the summer, right? I've been actually craving a lot of very bitter tea and it's just the summer heat and like what we talked about earlier with the tea, if it's really hot outside, the bitter flavors, they cool the inside of your body down.
So it's just kind of interest. Um, and then we move on to the metal element, which is right after, which is the dominant, um, element for the fall season. And those correspond with your lungs and large intestine. And again, this is like information that's out there. And this has existed for like thousands of years.
I mean, the first documents of um, Chinese medicine stem back to like, you know, 3,500 bc I'm not making any of this up. This is just what so many cultures around the world have adopted and have taken on as truth and has actually healed them. If you think about what did we do 200 years ago, you know, how did we heal ourselves?
It was really through [01:12:00] herbs, understanding the energetics of food and understanding what things did for you, and understanding just how we connected to nature. It's really cool and interesting. So anyway, um, the me metal element corresponds with the lungs and large intestine. The feelings that it brings you are like pride.
You know, you feel really proud. A lot of metal element people, um, are like, know-it-alls in like such a good way. Like they're never wrong about anything. But again, if that goes dark, you can feel a bit more sadness and grief. And the dominant flavor of the metal element is salty flavors. So think like I'm, I'm sorry, spicy pungent flavors.
So think like onions or think garlic and ginger. Those are the flavors of, um, the metal element. And if you have any signs of imbalance there, it's low energy, cough, phlegm, um, sore throat, ear, nose and throat problems, congestion. It's all kind of connected in really cool. Um, once you start to learn all of it.[01:13:00]
Kyley: like, And so, uh, yeah, so what's the, like
Kiele: Sure.
Kyley: to
the metal once.
Kiele: my, my, we, I'll give you an example. My weakest organ in my body, cuz we all have one week organ that we have to pay more attention to are my lungs. Um, I've suffered from a lot of ear, nose and throat problems and oftentimes I would get bronchitis, um, and allergies really kick in. So for me, I have to focus a lot on the metal element and nourish my lungs.
So pretty much in every meal or every day, I. Onions, garlic, ginger. A big thing I like to make is just slice ginger tea with like lemon in it and call it a day. It's really easy for me. Or if I, if I have, um, a sore throat, I'll take sliced garlic with some sliced onion and just take a ton of honey and just like squeeze it on top.
Let it sit for about five minutes. The honey will actually become more liquid instead [01:14:00] of thick because the moisture from the garlic and the onion will seep into it and make it really liquidy. And then you just eat the honey for a week and your throat problems will go away. It's so cool.
Kyley: Wow.
Eva: Cool.
Kiele: but that's like very metal element stuff, right?
So, um, oh wait, what was your question,
Kyley: Oh, I mean, I've just, I, I, I, I feel like just the nerd in me, like, like the academic, he was just like, hungry for this information. Like, it's just really fascinating to me. So I'm like putting the, the pieces, the pieces together. It's also just interesting cuz like, I always feel like, uh, if you cut up garlic, I always feel like your fingers smell kind of med afterwards.
Does
Kiele: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: else has?
Kiele: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Um, I wanna explain the other two elements and then I'll talk about how they work together. So you can kind of, I'll, I'll go as quickly as I
Kyley: I'll stop interrupting you,
Kiele: No, no, no, no. Interrupt me if you want. You know, I mean, this, again, this is a fluid conversation. So after we exit the metal element and the fall season, we go into the water element, [01:15:00] winter season, those two correspond together.
And the corresponding organs for the water element and winter season are your kidney and your bladder. And if you think about it, right, the winter time is toward the end of the year. And what's one thing that people are like doing in their lives, like new?
Eva: stock, You mean like taking stock of their reflecting? Is
Kiele: Reflecting. Yeah. And, and also like making resolutions, eliminating what they don't want. Like saying, Oh, next year I'm gonna do this and this and that. So it's a process of elimination for them. And that relates to our kidneys and our bladder, because those are elimination organs. So even though we're like eliminating things from our body and our mind and our spirit subconsciously, we're like shedding things.
And that's what the water element does in your body. A lot of the foods in the water element are salty. And what salty foods do is like flush everything out. So think like [01:16:00] miso, seaweeds, mushrooms. Mushrooms hold a lot of water. Um, anything dark or. Yeah, blue or dark green in color. Um, like eggplant, black foods are in this category, so like black sesame, charcoal, um, not like everyone's eating charcoal all the time, but you know, there we had this whole thing with charcoal bread and using charcoal that eliminates, um, toxins in your body.
Let me see what else. Black beans are really good. So anyway, what those do for you emotionally is make you feel more calm. Remember what I talked about with the miso soup? Like it makes you feel more calm and in flow, but it could also go dark if you have too much water element where you almost are fearful to like step outta your comfort zone.
And the way you know that you are out of balance in the water element is if you have anything bad that has to do with your bladder, like UTIs or frequent urination or even sexual dysfunction, um, lower back [01:17:00] pain, um, kidney stones, bladder infection, stuff like that. That's how you can tell that there's something up with, you know, the water element within your body.
And then the last one is the wood element. And that's when spring comes, right? And the corresponding organs with that, um, element and that season are your liver and your gallbladder. And so what happens in the springtime, everyone gets really excited. Shit, it's blooming. We're starting to feel good, things are turning green.
Um, and that brings on excitement and you feel like you are progressing. You know that phrase spring cleaning that's like exists for a reason where everyone just wants to like start fresh, start a new start eating all the salads and doing all the things. It's that same feeling, but if it goes too dark, you can get like really irritable and angry.
Um, if, if you have that in you, right? If you're prone to that. Um, and the dominant flavor for the wood element is sour. And sour [01:18:00] brings on purification in the body and purification of your liver and your gallbladder. So foods, basically everything green is a wood element. Food. That's like the dominant color and dominant like food.
So salads, lettuces, celery, um, zucchini, um, lemons, limes, anything sour and flavor like vinegar, also, um, eggs, chicken, these, all things. Um, these are all foods that are within this element. And if you're feeling imbalanced, you know, within this element you have anger issues, um, joint pain, um, tendon pain, muscle aches, difficulty making decisions even, or arthritis basically.
So there's my main, my main point is it's so helpful to learn about all of these elements and how they play together. And again, the key is balance here. If you have a bit of everything in, you know, all the foods, in every category, every day, which [01:19:00] is basically. Every color, you know? Um, and every flavor. If you corporate all the five flavors in your diet every day, if you have all of the colors every day, you're good.
You'll always feel balanced and feel right, always. It's really fun to learn about.
Eva: So when you're talking about balancing things out, so let's just say like you talked about joint pain or like UTIs or back pains or, uh, I can't remember what else, but the heart, like heart palpitations, right? With the fire. So she has fire. So is the idea of like if you have heart palpitations because um, that's like not aligned, do you eat the opposite to like help balance that out?
So then you would eat like fire or water foods.
Kiele: Yes, Yes. So all of these elements can either nourish or extinguish something that's going on in your body. So for example, If you can just imagine all of the elements kind of together, um, all of them nourish each other. So earth, nourishes, metal, right? Metal nourishes water. Water, nourishes, wood, wood, nourishes, fire, fire, nourishes earth.
And if you think about [01:20:00] what all of those elements do in real life, like when you have a fire and you create ash, that creates earth, right? And then the earth creates metal because within the earth, like crystals are grown, right? And then in metal that creates water from the minerals, from the crystals and then water.
It's, it's so crazy. Like if you really think about it, it's so nuts. Water creates wood because they grow the trees, right? And then wood creates fire because you cut down the trees and you create the fire. And if you abide by that and understand how all of them play together, it really will start to make sense.
And so the way that you can also extinguish all the elements. So for example, if you have a lot of anxiety and you're like, Oh my God, like I'm having heart palpitations, like my, my heart is off and beating in weird ways, you have just too much fire in you. You can counter that with and cool that down with water element foods.
[01:21:00] So literally have water or you can have earth element foods to like ground you a bit, just kind of bring you back down to earth a bit.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, it's, it all kind of works together. It's really fun to learn
Eva: I really love like the nature aspect of this. I think that like really speaks to me. It just makes sense to me that of course, Before technology or I, this kind of technology anyway, like that
Kiele: Modern medicine before modern medicine.
Eva: Yeah, yeah. That like this really, it's an advanced system, you know? This advanced system was created of course in conjunction, in connection with Earth and nature.
That just makes so much sense to me.
Kiele: Yeah, it, Go ahead.
Kyley: I'm just also like, kind of relishing in, like, we've had these systems of knowledge for thousands of years and like how modern medicine has been around for like, just like a tiny little spec.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: And it's interesting how [01:22:00] like, like how intense the investment is in being like, oh, like. not real, right?
Like, that's like you, that's not safe to trust. I think that's like a really reoccurring idea for people, right? Is that it's not safe to trust this knowledge that's been around for, you know, thousands of years,
Eva: got, that eventually like, like essentially got us here like
Kiele: yeah, yeah. Essentially you're, you're right. And I think, you know, part of the problem is that now in our modern era, we rely so much on research and proven research, right? Um, and if there isn't research done and there's no statistics, then it's questionable. And with these types, Wisdom, you know, with, with these types of philosophies, um, and way of living, it's very difficult to prove.
And that's really the hardest thing. And so, you know, [01:23:00] only recently has the, um, World Health Organization recognized Chinese medicine as actually being very beneficial to, um, our health. And that happened two years ago only. And think about, you know, how long this education has existed. I mean, thousands of years.
Aveda is the oldest form of medicine. It's like 5,000 years old. Chinese medicine came from Aveda and I think, like I said, the first records of Chinese medicine or about 3,500 years old.
Eva: yeah. But what's interesting is that that's only. In, I think like western cultures, meaning like, there is such a, this, this is colonialism, right? It's like the high, the pedestal of like, um, the clinical and over, um, something maybe Yeah. More traditional or
Kyley: the earth.
Eva: Yeah. Closer to the earth
Kiele: It, you know, if you follow this philosophy and you learn this education, you really start to understand how connected to the [01:24:00] earth you actually are. And you start to understand your place. Um, because we are all organisms in this world and on this earth just like everything else. And it goes back to the energy system, that everything is energy, right?
We are energy and we focus on our energy system. And that's not something that Western Medicine talks about. They have no regard to the energy system and they've never even heard of it. But what do we do as human beings? Every day we consume energy and we, cuz we need more energy, right? We need energy to live and survive.
And so if you focus on your energy system and ask yourself, how am I feeling? What do I need today? Things will really start to shift, and that leads to your senses and becoming a more sensual person, because all five, actually six of your senses, if you include intuition, you use them every day. And they're the one tool that you have to feel extremely grounded and connected to nature.
[01:25:00] Because we have five main, um, senses, right? We have our sense of sight, smell, taste, touch, and sound, and all of these things help us feel and be human. Um, and they all do specific things for us. And so it's all really connected, right? Um, it's, it's so fascinating to talk about and learn about and, you know mm-hmm.
Eva: can you like, So in our time, in our remaining time together, I feel like, you know, you talked about how, um, like sensuality and food is a big piece of your work. So can you maybe speak on that a little bit and what, what does that, what does that even mean be like, Cause I read that and I was like, that sounds cool, but I have no idea what it means.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said earlier, you know, I mean for me, my definition of sensual nourishment is really experiencing life using all of your senses, and it helps you live with gratitude every day. And, um, my methodologies is just to [01:26:00] teach exactly that. You know, how all of these senses can help you feel grounded and feel connected to yourself.
Because in this modern world, we're just always so busy doing all the things, you know, I mean, we're like a fast paced train all day long. Like just do, dealing with our to-do list, checking everything off, not taking time to actually ask ourselves how are we doing? What do we need? And if you take the time to focus on your senses every single day, I promise you will feel so much more alive.
Um, and. And just, I mean better about yourself. And so I think what would help is maybe if I go over the five senses, um, and what they are and what they do. So, um, our first sense is sight. And it is one of the most important senses. Like we use our site every day. Um, and what it actually does, and, you know, instead of just helping us see, is our site actually gives us the ability to like, create things.[01:27:00]
If we didn't have our site, we wouldn't be able to like make something or do something. It really gives us the ability to be creative, and that's important because that gives us direction and purpose. , Right. Um, and so a way I like to honor it and if people who are listening would wanna do this, um, I like to do like five senses cleanses.
And so the way I like to honor it is just observe your surroundings a lot more than usual. Like, take the time to, especially in nature, take the time to like look at something you've never really focused on, like, you know, a bush in near your house or, you know, just something else that you've never taken the time.
And just, just focus on that for like five minutes and see what happens. Um, the next sense is smell. Our senses of smell really influences our moods. So, you know, as if you, when you smell like baked bread, that's a very different smell from if you're like in a New York City subway,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: right? [01:28:00] Like just to give a completely gross exam.
Or like, if you walk into a bathroom after someone took like a massive shit and you're like, Whoa, I gotta get out of here. Like
Kyley: were so funny today. We, everywhere we went, my son kept being like, and he wasn't wrong for some reason. We kept being places that smelled bad and he was just like, It does not smell good, mom. And I would just be like, Just don't, you know, Like, I don't wanna ever shame them, but like, stop being so loud about, you know, this place that does not smell good.
Kiele: That's hilarious. Oh my God,
Eva: I never.
Kiele: meet your son.
Eva: I never thought about smelling mood, but it is true, like when you smell something bad, you're like, like it, like you're like upset.
Kiele: Yeah, you're, you're completely
Eva: like fresh laundry, I'm like, Oh, like, it's just like the, It's uplifting. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kiele: It completely influences your mood like that. It's so insane. And then the deeper level of that, and why that's important is. It heightens your confidence and decision making. So [01:29:00] imagine, you know, you go in a bathroom and you're like, Oh, it smells absolutely gross in here. Your decision, you walked out of there right away, right?
It's like instant. But if you are in a place that smells like lavender, You're like, you, you, it actually triggers something in your brain to like, think of good things or like maybe something you wanna accomplish. Like it's just, it completely changes your mood, um, and helps build your confidence and decision making.
It's really crazy. Um, and so what I love to do every day is do like a smell cleanse and just smell different things that I really enjoy just to kind of ground myself. So I always have, I mean, I have some here, I have like essential oils all the time that I carry with me. Um, if it doesn't smell good, I don't even bother with it.
It's, and I'm very sensitive to smell. Um, touch is really important because it connects us to humanity and to nature and touch makes us feel grounded and very conscious. Also aware of like if something doesn't feel good, like if something's sticky or if [01:30:00] you touch something that feels a bit bumpy, it immediately just kind of, um, dictates what you think about this thing.
Right? So it just immediately makes you really conscious. And a good way to nourish that sense, especially when you're cooking, is to, um, touch your food a lot more than usual, like clean fruits and vegetables with your hands. I know a lot of people that don't love to like, touch their food, they get really freaked out by touching their food.
Um, but what that does, if you, you know, have like a sweet potato, I wish I had one in my hand right now, but
Kyley: note, not my children who eat cereal with their hands like, like wet, soggy cereal with their hands. I'm like, That is disgusting,
Kiele: that's them also experiencing something, you know, I mean, you know, it's like an Indian culture. Everything tastes better with your, and you use your hands. Um, but I, I would say, you know, touch food a lot more, eat with your [01:31:00] hands because when you touch it, you
Kyley: So, okay, I'm so sorry. I'm just gonna tell another hilarious kid story. That's what this is all did today. Desi goes, he goes, You know what mom? It's my five year old waffles are a great finger food
Kiele: He's not
Eva: not wrong. Yeah, he's not
Kiele: not wrong.
Kyley: You know what? Yeah, you're right. Anyway, it's
Eva: the texture, like I, Yeah, I like, I feel like that's, there's something intuitive about that actually. Cause like, you just wanna pick that thing up. You don't wanna, I don't wanna cut my waffle. I wanna eat it with my hand.
Kyley: well, and the thing too that's making that, I'm also thinking about like the way I keep bringing up my kids' stories is like they don't have all of our stupid conditioning of separate being separate from the earth and like embodiment. And so of course I'm thinking of kids' stories in response to these because my kids like, smell something and then they respond to it.
It smells bad here, Mom. Right? As opposed to me who's like, well gotta keep it under wrap. So it smells like, you know,
Kiele: I actually really love how you're bringing up your kids because they do react very [01:32:00] differently. They have a visceral reaction to everything and I think it's really cool that they love to touch everything. That's how they experience life. And so for me, you know, when I have kids soon I won't, I thought about this a lot.
Like, Oh, will I get mad if they just like touch their food all the time? I don't think they will. I think teaching proper manners is good too, but there's a fine line cuz I don't wanna take that experience away from them. You know, if they're touching their food and eating their food, like, hey listen, you know, you'll learn a, learn a, how to use a fork and knife like when you're five or something.
Maybe all the parenting coaches out there may think I'm crazy. But I do believe that touching your food as you eat it is really important.
Kyley: Well, and that's just also just interesting, like kind of, cuz that's always how I've been. Um, and it's only recently, my son is five and a half and it's only recently that I've been like, Okay, actually you're grossing me. Like, like, and it was just totally this internal switch where I went from being like, Hey, do whatever you want to.
Being like, Oh, now I'm actively grossing out by you . [01:33:00] And I don't feel that way about my three year olds. And I actually do think it's kind of like a developmental thing where I'm like, like, like some, some, some kind of mom part of my brain has like registered like, Oh actually you are old enough now to handle napkins and like proper silverware and I don't shame my kids.
But like, it's just interesting observing Exactly your point of like, oh no, we're that, we're wrapping up this like wet cereal with your hands face
Kiele: Yeah. It comes a point. It comes a point like let them experience life, but then also
Kyley: But it wasn't like an intellectual decision. It was like my body was like, Oh no, mom, you're done with this phase. So anyway,
Kiele: Oh my God, that's great. I love it when you bring up your kids' stories.
Kyley: There are many of them.
Kiele: I can't wait to live your life. Um, so then the next one is taste right? And that's like everyone's favorite when it comes to food and. The sense of taste settles our emotions. You know, that's why we taste certain things. Like if you, it just [01:34:00] settles your emotions for whatever you're going through.
Simple as that. Like we talked a lot about like comfort food, right? And that those emotions need to be settled. There are even foods and drinks out there that if you wanna feel like more excited or veracious or whatever, more happy, more alive. There are the foods for that, right? That's what fruits do For me.
Fruits make me feel really like excited and you know, that fresh feeling. Um, and it's important because it communicates with our bodies and brings happiness. That's what it does for us. Um, and so what I love to do and tell people to do is taste your food as you cook. A lot of times people just throw shit in a pot and just let it go and not taste the flavors and see how they blend together.
And then they're like, Oh, this wasn't great. I'm a bad cook. Like immediately. That's what they say. But I think it's best to always have a tasting spoon in your kitchen and by the stove. So as you go every step, taste your food, see what it needs, it starts to listen to [01:35:00] your senses. Cause it really will make a difference and then it'll build confidence, right?
Um, and then the last one is sound. And that's super important. So sound soothes and transforms our feelings and it stimulates the vagus nerve, um, and makes us feel safe. This is why it's important. Sound is safety. So think about the sound of like a rolling, gentle boil. and how that sound is so soothing or think about something sizzling and what that does for you.
You know, it's a little bit exciting, like, oh, something sizzling. Sounds like great. Or like the sound of like sh frying, right? That's really exciting. Um, or, you know, I mean all of these sounds just make a huge difference. And so that can really affect, you know, your experience with food and cooking and your experience in the kitchen.
So sound is super important. So what I like to do is infuse all of this ancient food wisdom mixed with [01:36:00] tapping into your senses as you cook, and then mixing that with actual tangible skills. So I teach women how to cook properly. So I teach proper knife skills. I teach little tricks and tips and all the things in your kitchen, and I teach about different concepts like temperature and the energetics of food.
And what really all of that does is connect to our senses and to nature and. What happens is you get rid of the diet culture in your brain and you get rid of the fact that there are right and wrong foods and that, Oh, I can only, I'm only, I can only do keto or I can only have this, and, you know, I don't, I don't eat dairy because, you know, some magazine told me so, and I think I'm intolerant.
Like, no. What you start to realize is that every food and flavor does something for your body and you, unless you have a serious allergy like peanuts, like that's very different. But you know, you start to understand that there's a purpose for everything. [01:37:00] And at the end of, at the end of it all, it's about creating balance and understanding what you are personally going through and how to nourish that within you.
And so it's, it's just so fun and way more scientific than most people think. And uh, to me that is sensu nourishment and that's what I love to teach. And I've just seen. So many women just have serious breakthroughs. And I have at this point with my work, I've helped hundreds of women and they've not only healed themselves from the inside out when it comes to their emotions and their thoughts and beliefs around food and cooking.
Um, they've also done really great things like healed their P C O S and endometriosis and adenomyosis and, um, fear of cooking even. And, um, anxiety and depression and eating disorders. Uh, I mean, diabetes. It's just been so cool to see them overcome certain things [01:38:00] and really start to embody sensuality in their lives and focus more on themselves and how to nourish themselves properly.
And so that's just been really like the magic that, that I've been able to witness and share. So, Hmm.
Eva: I love this. I just, I love it. It's interesting because you can argue that everything is essential experience, you know, like creativity, art, music, and everything is, But I do think that food is a special medium in which it makes sense. Like it really is a sense oriented thing like, Just on a biological level.
Like I, I've noticed like when people sit down on a table and they're hungry, it's like you fucking dive into that food and you're like, if you're like really hungry, you're like an animal. You become really instinctual and, and, and your sense, all of your sense is like, yeah. Smelling the food, tasting the food, like, you know, touching all of it, like cooking.
And when you're talking about the sizzling, like, I really, it yeah. I could really resonate with that of like, I get excited when I [01:39:00] hear something and smell something getting cooked and it, yeah, it brings up, you know, all this stuff. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm inspired actually to, to, um, clarity or love food, but I think, Okay, so actually, so my question is actually bringing it back to the very top, do you have any suggestions for, for people who are like, Yeah, but I'm too, I don't have enough time.
Or like, when you struggle with feeling like, um, it. Because I actually enjoy cooking. And also sometimes I'm like, it's easier not to . And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that or any guidance that you offer to people who maybe feel like they don't have enough time to cook?
Kiele: I mean, my question to you would be what makes you feel like you don't have enough time?
Eva: Um, I mean, that's a great question. It's more, it's not, it's more of like, I know that I could, uh, spend an out, you know, I go to the grocery store, spend 45 minutes cooking, or I could like order something online and that would be much faster. Do you know what I mean? It's more of like the, the ease. And I will say [01:40:00] I'm also spoiled because my partner is a cook, so he does all the cooking.
And so I've just gotten into a habit of just letting him, like do it all and.
Kiele: lucky lady.
Eva: I am very lucky, but, but I also, But I have to say, I also miss it. Cause I think there's something really special about cooking, and I've been noticing that, like, I don't do it anymore because I just default it to my partner,
Kiele: I think the first thing I would say is don't put any pressure on yourself to like feel like, Oh, I need to change and like, cook three meals a day and just stick to that. No, because you'll burn out. Um, if you are the type, well, first of all, it, it stems down to the experience you want because getting takeout and going out to a restaurant is a very different experience from cooking at home.
And I think both have its time and place and they're both good. My, what I like to talk about is really your experience with the food. If you're just the type that's very mindless with food and you just. Eat really quickly. I would work on your connection with food in general, because my rule of thumb is I don't [01:41:00] care if you're sitting down eating a McDonald's burger or you're having like a home cooked meal.
What matters is how you feel about that food. If you sit down to eat with feelings of guilt or shame or fear or worry that, Oh my God, this is gonna make me fat, or whatever your worries are, you're gonna have a hard time digesting, You know, your body's not gonna respond well to it, and it's gonna become a pattern.
And so it's better to just resolve to the fact that you're having a good time and enjoy
Eva: Yeah. And enjoy it. Like,
Kiele: and, and, and digest. Yeah. And then you'll have feelings, you know, your digestion will be a lot better. Um, I don't, don't care what you're eating, just know that. But at the same time, I do think it is better to have like whole real food, right?
I'm not saying go out and eat a McDonald's burger all day every day, but just note how you're feeling about that experience. And I think for you, Um, I think once in a while, tap into the feelings that you experience when you cook. Do once a week, you know, one day a [01:42:00] week,
Eva: what you said already was just really simple and helpful cuz it made me realize like, Oh, I'm comp, I'm comp, I'm, I'm conflating and, um, making takeout the same as cooking. And what you pointed out for me is like, wait, I have to remember they're not, they're two totally different experiences and I'm noticing, I'm craving the experience of cooking.
Like, I like connecting with my food. So I like touching food. I like washing my, like, I like all the things that you have said. And even this conversation has made me realize that. And so it really is as simple as realizing, wait, I can't order food, but it's not gonna give me the satisfaction of the thing that I'm really craving, which is like a moment of like putting on some music and like fondling my lettuce
Kiele: Yep. Not looking at the clock. I think also not looking at the clock really helps because a lot of people are like, Oh, this needs to take 45 minutes. And I get it. If you have kids and there's like bedtime and all of that. But if you have a partner, create an experience for yourself and just say, This is my night to do this and I'm just going to enjoy it [01:43:00] and make something you really love and enjoy it
Eva: I love that.
Kiele: and then wash your dishes really, essentially
Eva: already. Super helpful. I
Kiele: Great. Awesome.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: Um, what else should we talk about? So many things we've covered.
Kyley: Oh my gosh. I know I could, uh, I just also feel there's a couple, I mean there's actually a lot that's come up for me in this conversation. The dishes thing really, really feels big, uh, that I guarantee you a month from now, my joy is gonna be like, guess what guys? Turns out I figured out dishes because of Kelly.
Um, uh, but I'm also in this moment thinking about like based on your, what you just shared with Eva is like, yeah, I do a lot of food prep for my kids and you know, and I managed to be, get myself something in the process and I'm now in this moment thinking like, how can I make it more delicious? Like, of an experience?
Like how can I make it more like sensual and, and playful [01:44:00] when I'm making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as opposed to like, cuz it is a thing that I have to do. You know, most days I'm the breakfast and lunch person and so like, can I. Just like make that a richer experience as a way of actually nourishing myself more instead of, um, uh, instead of like a thing.
I have to check
Eva: And sort of like a chore. Yeah.
Kiele: you, do you have them come in and help you in the kitchen? I know they're
Kyley: son is so cute. He's so, he's the five year old and he's like really into making his own food, like as of like a month ago. And so , he was so funny, He was so proud of Look at my Sandwich Mom. And the bread is like in like 17 different pieces, like a total shit.
And I was like, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. I mean, my house is never clean, so I don't care about them making a mess, you know? Um, so yeah,
Eva: think that's so important though, cuz
Kiele: think so too.
Eva: I know, I don't know, I just know people who never got the chance to be in the kitchen when they were kids, and [01:45:00] then they're like totally disconnected from that whole experience. And that's up.
Kiele: Yeah, and they, I, I know them as adults and they don't feel, uh, competent. Um, they don't have a lot of confidence and they don't know what to do. A lot of those people are my clients, and so it's really interesting that
Eva: that impacts your entire life, because food is something that you do every fucking day, multiple times a day, unless you're fucking, you know, whatever, doing. What's the thing where you inter fasting,
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, I think that, you know, bringing them into the kitchen and asking more them, more, like letting them taste the only, the peanut butter and only the jelly, and saying like, Oh, how does this taste alone? And seeing what they say and what they experience, and then how does the jelly taste alone?
Kyley: I mean, you're totally right as a mom, as like a, like giving your kids the fun experience, but I'm actually thinking about like,
Eva: You're,
Kyley: booting them, but like, like really letting it be for me, right? Cause like, I bake with them all the time and like, they cook dinner, My husband like, brings 'em into the kitchen for cooking dinner.
[01:46:00] So they're pretty integrated into that. But I'm actually thinking of like, for me, how can I let it be like, like,
Eva: Yeah. You taste the jelly. You taste the peanut butter
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Kyley: Um, and uh, and that feels actually really, really fun, which may ultimately include them, but there's actually like a particular thing that I'm envisioning of like, Oh yeah, can I just let this be something that I slow the fuck down about and like, enjoy slicing the strawberries into a million pieces for them instead of just like, you know.
Eva: Instead of like chop chopping or.
Kiele: of just, Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say this is a tough one because I'm not a mom yet and I can't wait to explore all of these things. Um, but I would say, um, wow, this is tough. What I would do is just be more creative, um, with like the [01:47:00] way I cut things and um, like do fun things like. Cut the strawberries in just a different kind of way.
Or maybe even like top them with, I don't know, whipped cream or something. I'm making it
Kyley: But I'm
Kiele: you probably already do that
Kyley: Well, I mean, I'm, I, I'm also even just thinking of like, honestly of everything you shared about like the, like the five senses. Right. And I'm actually like just seeing like the exact same sandwich and the exact same strawberries, but just showing up for it. Right. As opposed to just like this kind of mindless, I have to get through it.
Eva: Having that sensual experience,
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: just slowing, slowing myself down and being present for making them lunch as a way of allowing it to be a nourishing experience, which then probably does make space to be playful and creative cuz it's not a should. It's a like, like,
Kiele: it's not a should, it's, it's more of like, what are you experiencing in this moment? Like how are these [01:48:00] strawberries looking? Right? Um, What is this? What, how is this jam going down, like on the, on the bread, Like just making it like a bit richer and just
Kyley: exactly. Just the
Kiele: rather than just slapping it on?
Um, there's a big difference between, Oh, I'll give you a great example. Um, my ex-husband's sister, so I guess effectively my ex sister-in-law, um, was really good at this where he described there's an eight, eight and a half year age difference between the two of them. And so she kind of like raised him in some way, but when he was a little kid, he always described the way that she put jam on bread and she would like very gingerly do it and like the knife down properly and like spread it all the way to the ends of the, of the bread and like make it all even.
And in my mind I'm like, Whoa, she really thought about that because I used to just like slap it on and not care. You know, and she, he was like, Oh, I just [01:49:00] really loved the way she would do that. And he remembers that as like a three year
Kyley: Yeah,
Kiele: And so that type of thing is what I'm talking about. And I think maybe what you're alluding to
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: what you want, just like,
Eva: Yeah,
Kiele: savoring the moment a bit more rather than making it into a chore and just shifting your perspective a bit.
Um, so just spread that jam on, you know,
Eva: that's gonna be your motto. Spread that jam baby
Kyley: of all of you when I am
Eva: when you're spreading that
Kyley: spreading the jam,
Kiele: I love it. I love it so much. It's so great.
Eva: Okay.
Kyley: this has been the best.
Kiele: been really fun,
Eva: has been great. . Um, I think it's time for joy.
Kyley: Yeah. Should we do a round of joy?
Eva: Yeah. Let's do it. Um, do you want, do you wanna
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: Sorry.
Kyley: Okay. What's something that's bringing you joy right now?
Kiele: Um hmm. The possibility is of making [01:50:00] a family that's bringing me major joy. Um, yeah. Big time. I'm ready
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: That's
Kiele: here for it.
Eva: Yay. That's
Kyley: Ugh.
Kiele: Big? What, what about you?
Kyley: Um, so my friend, uh, the other day just pointed out it was, it was Liz listeners. No, Liz. Um, she was like, I just love your summer. Every time I talk to you, you're like going on a new adventure. And that really does feel like this summer has been like, I went to the, I like, What, what?
Just like going and being in adventure mode with my kids is so much fun. Like that is like the way that I feel like that, like that is like a way in which I shine as a mom is like, get in the car. Like to the food piece, I'll like literally like throw the loaf of bread and the peanut butter and jelly in a bag and just be like, just get, get out the door as quick as possible.
I'll make us lunch when we get there. I don't even know where we're going. And, um, and we've been going to the [01:51:00] beach and the playground and we've just been like, on the go. And with Covid, that wasn't always an option with cold weather, that isn't always an option. And I fucking love summer. I love being on the water.
Like yesterday we were at this, we went to this pond that I'd never been to before, and we were there from like, uh, like nine 30 in the morning until four in the afternoon. And, uh, everyone, like I saw Birdie today had like the little, like, you know, when you, she's got her little tan lines from her little bathing suit and I just feel like, okay, yeah, we're nailing like we're nailing summer this summer.
And uh, it feels like, it just feels really delicious. So
Kiele: Oh, that's fantastic.
Eva: love that. You know, I love suck. Who do I, Yeah, I think you were saying, you were saying, Kay, that like everyone loves summer. I do think some people don't love Summer, and so I try to be sensitive towards that because I'm a summer freak and I don't wanna like rub it in people's noses, but I fucking love summer
Kiele: I fucking love summer.
Eva: it's just like where I thrive, so, And I [01:52:00] could feel that vibe from you Kylie, as you're talking.
Kyley: And I feel like sometimes at the end of summer, cuz I also, you know, summer person, sometimes at the end of the summer, I feel like there's can be this moment of like, grief that's like, Oh, did I, did I do it right? Did I do it enough? Did I, like, you know, this moment of like, I should have played more dumb.
And I, this feels like a summer, like it's still June and already we're like, we're fucking doing summer. And I, I feel really good about, I feel really good about my odds of remorse being limited.
Eva: Love it. Cool. That
Kyley: about you?
Eva: Okay, so mine's also somewhat summer related. I want to give a shout out to my joy of, of Hammocks Haven. I talked about hammocks, yet, I think I've talked about it last year. I will probably always come back once a year to talk about my joy of hammocks because I just, I don't know what the fuck I was doing with my life before I had a hammock, like
I like being in a hammock is truly [01:53:00] just the best feeling. Like I love the feeling of being cocooned in something and rocking and looking up at the trees in the sky, and it's such a summer thing. And, um, so now we have two hammocks in our house, and so I'm just like, I think I've
Kiele: I was just gonna ask that. I was just gonna ask you have a hammock in your bedroom.
Eva: no, I don't have, I thought about putting one actually here in my, in my attic space, but I like being like kind of outside and so, um, but, but I'm not, you know, who knows? That could happen. It was more also that, um, this is a bit of like a detailed rant, but like, when I think about women on their period and on their bleed, I have this vision of like, what I want, which is like, I really wanna be like eating grapes, like off the vine, being fanned, like Greek goddess style, naked in a garden with other women.
Like that's how I think the period should be. And so I was on my period and like in fetal physician in this like hammock and eating cherries that were growing off of my tree. And my partner came out, he's like, [01:54:00] You look like a painting right now. Just like, And I was like, Yes. Like that is what I'm fucking going for.
Like, I, I manifested that because that's how I think it should be one on a period. Just if you, if you are not spending time in a hammock, I just highly recommend that you go and, Cause you can get one. I recommend Cammock. It's a brand. It's like that kind, like you can like pack it and just bring it to the park.
You don't need to like, have all the tools to like put it up. You just need two trees, some type of sturdy thing. If you can't do it at home, you can like bring it out into nature. It's the shit.
Kiele: I'm all about the hammocks. Um, and I love, I was just envisioning you like on your bleed in a hammock eating cherries. Also, I wanna mention just from like a, you know, five element Chinese medicine perspective, cherries are one of the best things you can have during your period. Be. Yep. Because if you think about cherries, what are they?
They're red food and red foods and they're, if you think about like the cherry juice, it's really
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kind of bloody. And so it's nourishing [01:55:00] for your blood. And as women, we lose blood every month and we have to regenerate that blood every month. So things like cherries, beets,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kinds of other berries, um, even red.
Eva: red bean every
Kiele: Red bean is very good. Red meat is very good when you have your bleed. So all of these things are really good for your period. So when you said cherries, I was like, See, it's natural. You know these things and you're doing them already, so it's just you're already connected in a way. What I love to educate on is, is the why and how, and so it's just so fun.
So,
Eva: Well, why don't you tell our audience our awesome be of audience? Well, how they can find you and how they can work with you.
Kiele: Oh my God, I loved being here and, um, I, I just love podcasts and thank you so much for listening everyone. Um, you can find me on my website. It's www.keylejl.com, so k i e l e j a e l.com. [01:56:00] Browse the website. I have two awesome online courses. I have a mini course that's called the Intro to Sensual Cooking 1 0 1, and it's like, A very simple 21 day mini course if you wanna do one lesson a day or just binge on it.
Um, it's super fun. And then I have my full course, The Art of Sensual Cooking, and that has six modules in it. It's really rich. I basically dive into all of this and teach everything I know in this one course. And if you wanna just book a call with me, I give free consultations. I love talking to people.
So just go on my website, click I think contact, and uh, fill out my form and we will chat. Mm-hmm. hang out. So thank you so much for having me and
Eva: you. This is really awesome.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: [01:57:00] Hi.
Kyley: No,
Kiele: Hi.
Kyley: how are you?
Kiele: I'm great ladies. How are you?
Kyley: Oh God, that's wonderful. Sorry,
Eva: to meet you. Kellye, right? Is it
Kiele: Keelie, You said it perfectly
Kyley: but I've Say it again so I don't screw it up.
Kiele: now. It's all good. Key. Ellie like a
Kyley: Really. Oh, that's beautiful.
Kiele: Oh, thank you. It's um, Hawaiian.
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: just, But what about the hyphenated part? Do you go by your, Is there full
Kiele: you know j l yeah. Like j l for my business I do, but most people, when they get to know me, it's just Kee.
Eva: I mean, do you have a preference? We're happy. [01:58:00] Whatever makes you happy.
Kiele: Um, Kee is good if you, um, if you're talking about my company, then Kee j l Wellness, But if it's just me, then Kee.
Eva: Okay, cool. Cool, cool,
Kiele: all good.
Eva: Well welcome to the show.
Kiele: Thank you. Can you hear me okay?
Kyley: Ken?
Eva: Yeah, I'm trying to set up my mic so we'll see if you guys can hear me okay on you guys hear this?
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: Okay, cool. Then we're good to go.
Kyley: Do the same thing.
Eva: Um, I'm good. I'm snacking and I'm freshly showered, which is always nice.
Kiele: Oh, that's good. She just loved being freshly showered.
Eva: I love, I, you know. Yeah. I love being fresh that you showered. It doesn't have not option enough as often as it should, if I'm being totally honest.
Kyley: Oh, I'm the same way. Although the shower, I'm a mom of two small kids, so the shower is my like, uh, goat. It's like, where do I go when I'm stressed? I mean, even before kids, but now like, especially so , sometimes I just [01:59:00] take like two showers, three showers in a day, and then
Kiele: know what?
Kyley: like five days go by. It just really, it's really about my mood more than my cleanliness.
Kiele: how? How old are your kids?
Kyley: Um, I have a three year old and a five year old.
Kiele: Mm. What great ages.
Kyley: there's,
Kiele: Great ages.
Kyley: they are a ridiculous amount of fun and um,
Eva: I'm super cute.
Kyley: Yeah. I'm biased, but they're
Eva: They're pretty dang cute.
Kiele: That's so awesome.
Kyley: call my daughter, my three year old, my best girl, and the other day she climbed into bed in the morning and she goes, Good morning.
Best mama.
Eva: Aw.
Kiele: Oh my god.
Eva: I gotta just melt your heart.
Kiele: Uh, do you have kids? Eva? Is it Ava or Eva?
Eva: Oh, thanks for asking. It's Eva and No, No kids. It's a topic of conversation on this podcast,
Kiele: Yeah, I just got done, you know, on a private note, I just got done with, uh, being in Mexico for two months doing IVF down there
Eva: Oh wow.
Kiele: and uh, it was great.
Kyley: Oh, [02:00:00] great. Yeah, yeah. I have a friend who went there for, um, for stem cell. Um, she has ms, and so they have like this really incredible, uh, stem cell treatment for ms. So,
Kiele: that's fantastic.
Kyley: yeah. How was your, Was would, it was a good experience
Kiele: thought it was a great experience. Um, I mean, I live in Austin, Texas and if ever I need surgery or anything, I'm going to Mexico. The healthcare there is fantastic. The doctors are also good looking, right? Like all of them, um, nurses, doctors, all of them, doesn't matter. They're all super good looking and the thing I loved about being in Mexico versus here, Is that they are really a service-oriented, hospitality oriented kind of country, and that applies to their medical care.
Like they, they just wanna do the best job. And that's what I think is great. Not like here. A lot of it has to do with what their doctors, um, what they're, what they're able to do when it comes to liability or, you know, [02:01:00] um, even just, I mean, there's so many complications and so I,
Eva: insurance allows, or what
Kiele: Yeah.
What insurance Exactly. And it's, uh, it's just a crock of crap. So, um, so just, no, Mexico is pretty dang great.
Kyley: yeah, yeah.
Eva: to know. That's really good to know.
Kyley: totally Katie's experience and people like kind of gave her side eye that was like sort of like, Oh, you're gonna go to Max. Like, it was like this, like, you know, weird thing that she was doing, and she was just like, You all have no idea what you're talking about. This is like America wishes that.
Kiele: I know. Yeah. It, I, I felt that way too. And um, if someone would've told me a year ago that I was gonna go to Mexico to do, first of all, to do ivf and then secondly to go to Mexico to do ivf, I'm like, Oh, you're crazy. And now I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. So I got home like a week ago.
Kyley: Oh, wow.
Kiele: of them.
Eva: Yeah, that's quite, I'm You say you've just been on an journey and an adventure
Kiele: yeah, yeah. So I have two embryos now, and I can't wait to get them [02:02:00] put in and I'm probably gonna put both of them in and have twins.
Eva: Well that's
Kiele: likely
Kyley: I wanna cry. Mm.
Kiele: It's so fun.
Eva: I mean, honestly, I might have to pick your brain if I end up going down that route cuz So things something that we talk about all the time. It's like, I'm, so, I'm 38, I still don't know if I wanna have kids and if I decide that I do, I may have to go that route. So, um, I may pick her brain one day if I
Kiele: Yeah, totally. I'm really open to talking about it. I'm, I'll be 41 in December and so for me it was sort of like the good thing to do. Um, I met my now husband, I, I've been through a previous marriage for 16 years. Um, never wanted to have kids with him. He didn't wanna be a dad, left him, got divorced, moved to Austin.
Two weeks later, find my current husband and I got married at 39 pretty much right when I turned 39 a year of trying, naturally had one chemical pregnancy and we were like, Okay, it's kind of now or never cuz he's like, I don't wanna be 50 and like have a newborn
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Um, so we did [02:03:00] that for a year and then decided on IVF and just looked at the options and met with doctors here in Austin that we just weren't feeling it.
And then found this clinic in Mexico and, uh, talked to them and felt great and, um, yeah, definitely pick my brain if you want. It's, uh, it's, it was a great experience and I find that a lot more women are having to do this and go this route.
Eva: Yeah. I just appreciate you being so open about it. And Mar, I already need to wanna ask all the questions, but Kylie and I, we know like, so we tend to get going already before we even like officially start. So I kind of wanna like pump the breaks a little bit before we, um, before we jump in. Cause I can tell this is already gonna be a great conversation.
Kyley: just thinking that. I was like, Oh my God. Like we're all best friends already. These are
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: conversations.
Kiele: I'm, I'm very much an open book, so, you know, sometimes I have to reel it in with what I say cause I don't want people to get misconstrued by what I say. So, um, yeah,
Kyley: We are also very open book and very informal here, so, uh, no [02:04:00] realing necessary unless you'd like to, which is actually a question I wanted to ask. Um, is this a topic you'd prefer to keep off the show, your ivf, or are you happy to? Okay.
Kiele: I'm happy to talk about it. I'm even happy to talk about how I prepared for it. Um, I mean, whatever you wanna ask, I'm open to sharing if it's relevant to the conversation and, um, yeah, I'm very open to talking about it.
Kyley: cool. Yeah, we never know where we'll go, but I did wanna, like, confirm beforehand just because I know some people have different, you
Kiele: Yeah, I did have a question. Um, I noticed that the time blockage is two hours. Is it gonna be the full two hours you think?
Kyley: we, we, we often block for two hours. Um, because if we're really, if we really get going, like if the conversation's really flowing, we do, we do have to have longer episodes. Um, I think the actual interview usually lasts about an hour. But also if you have a cutoff time, we're more than happy to honor that.
Kiele: I don't really, I just wasn't sure.
Kyley: Yeah, we tend to, we, we do have long [02:05:00] episodes cuz we really
Eva: Yeah, our, our episodes are very like long form, windy, we'll be going like it's not very much as much as an interview as it mu as it is just like us connecting and Yeah, going with the flow.
Kyley: And also we interviewed someone on Monday and she was like, I have 60 minutes max for you. And we had a great conversation and the interview was like 45 minutes. So whatever people need, we, we can do. Yeah.
Eva: would even say, yeah, so I actually do have a hard cutoff today. So this is more for Kylie, so seven 30. So that does give us the 2 7 38 at latest. So that does give us the two full hours. And then Kylie and I, if we need to connect af you know, afterwards we can, but, um, but yeah, and
Kiele: are you? Both.
Kyley: Um, I live outside Boston.
Kiele: Oh,
Eva: And I'm in Portland
Kiele: Oh, so wow. Polar opposite. Okay.
Kyley: sometimes Eva's in Taiwan and then it's actually like a literal 12 hour difference.
Kiele: yeah, yeah. No, that's, uh,
Eva: that is true.
Kyley: Yeah. So this, we're closer this way.
Kiele: Got it.
Eva: Yeah. Um, [02:06:00] I'm like so excited to jump in. Okay. Wait, hold, Let me think of all the logistical things. Um, you can, we're very casual open. You can curse, um,
Kyley: I definitely will curse
Eva: we will, We will curse.
Kiele: I'll probably curse too. It's my favorite thing.
Eva: Yep. Yep. Um, if there is, like, we do have an editor, so if at any point you wanna like, take a long pause, if you need to go to the bathroom, if you need to like, retract something or like say something over again, we can definitely do that.
We'll clean, we'll clean it up. Um, and, you know, the first question of the show and the last question just to
Kiele: I think, so the first question is like, what's something life is teaching you right now? What lesson And then the last one it's, is about joy.
Eva: Joy. Yeah. And that's like a round, So the three of us will go for that.
Kiele: Yeah. Okay. My, I mean, my first answer has everything to do with IVF and having a kid. So I mean, both are like, that's my world right now, so, um, yeah, it's crazy.
Eva: Okay, cool. Uh, did I forget anything? Kylie?
Kyley: Oh, we'll [02:07:00] do a formal intro for you later, so we just jump right in. We'll just say your name and, and, and go and we'll, we'll do the, the fancy part later.
Eva: Cool.
Kyley: All right. You wanna bring her
Eva: Yeah. Uh, so any more questions though before we start?
Kiele: Yeah.
Eva: Okay, cool. All right. Um, right. Hi Kaylie. Welcome to Hell Universe. Thanks so much for joining us.
Kiele: Hi. Thank you for having me.
Eva: Uh, as you know, our first question for all of our guests is, what is something that life is teaching you right now?
Kiele: Uh, can I say one or two things?
Eva: You can say all the
Kiele: two things.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Um, there are two things that life is teaching me right now. One is to have extreme patience. Um, another one is to create boundaries more than ever of what I take into my life. And I actually have a third is to have no expectations of how anything will happen, and just know that life is good no matter.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: those three [02:08:00] again cuz I feel like they just should be the rules for living
Kiele: So the first one is to have extreme patience. Um, I've had to have a lot of patience with what I've been going through lately. Big things, big changes. The second thing is to create major boundaries around what I take in in my life. And that includes information, people, food, like everything. Mostly things that have to do with my emotions.
And then, uh, the third would be have no expectations at all. So I don't get disappointed with anything. And, uh, know that no matter what, life is great. Life is grand. I'm really happy to be alive,
Eva: Hmm.
Kiele: And that's pretty much.
Eva: So we've had we, cuz we had a little bit of conversation off the record before we started recording and so I was wondering if you could maybe share with the audience what you shared with us, because knowing the, so Kylie and I have context for what is going [02:09:00] on in your life to teach this. And I think it'd be really interesting for our listeners to know also I through what means you're, you're learning these lessons,
Kiele: Yeah, no problem. Um, I'd love to share this. I had just spent two months in Cancun, Mexico doing three rounds of IVF treatments, and I had a fibroid removal surgery while I was there, and it was. An incredible experience. Um, some people in my life were very weary of the fact that I was going to Mexico because I live in the States.
I live in Austin, Texas. And for me it was an opportunity for my husband and I to have a vacation. Um, we both work for ourselves. We're in the same time zone as Texas, so it was easy for us to just continue about our day. And also the healthcare in Mexico, at least in Cancun, at my specific clinic, has been fantastic and [02:10:00] it's not what people think.
And we actually signed up for two rounds, but ended up doing three. Um, and that's where what I was talking about with the patients and no expectations and, um, really being strict about creating boundaries. And it had a lot to do with just what has happened, um, with those three rounds of ivf. And, uh, but overall it was a really fantastic experience.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, and I have two embryos out of everything, out of all of it. And so I'm really thrilled because I'll be 41 this year and I know for women over 40 it can be difficult to conceive naturally. And also, um, a lot of women have fertility problems and you don't even have to be over 40. You could be 20 and have fertility problems.
So it's a big issue right now, uh, with, uh, with women and women's health.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, I'm thrilled to hear about this because IVF may be in my future and I actually, to be honest, [02:11:00] never considered, just didn't have the awareness of Mexico being an option and the healthcare system in America is fucking disaster . So like, I'm like, this sounds really appealing. And also, you know, I like that you're coming on here to share the possibility with other people who also may need this as an option.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to share. And you know, just so your listeners know, I'm very much one to do all of my research and I'm very strict about what I get myself into. And I would, I err on the side of cautiousness, but at the same time, I am one to be very impulsive. And if I feel intuitively that something is right, I just go for it.
And this was one of those things that I went for. Um, and I decided to go to this specific clinic in Cancun because when we did, uh, a telemedicine, uh, video call with the doctor really had a good feeling about him. And then not only that, one of my best friends that I [02:12:00] grew up with, who's an anesthesiologist, um, she has a colleague who's also an anesthesiologist.
Him and his husband went to this clinic to have their surrogate, um, or to do surrogacy and have their baby. And so he vetted for this clinic. And if it's good enough for an anesthesiologist outta San Francisco, it's good enough for me. So, and he had the same issues with just the healthcare system, even though he is an anesthesiologist, he was just, I guess like it's just really expensive and why not go somewhere else where the healthcare is just as good, if not better.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: So,
Eva: Um, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you, you know, you, you talk about this experience, um, I can just tell that it felt, it seems like almost maybe transformational or very nourishing in some ways. So I was wondering if you could talk about what made the experience so wonderful.
Kiele: Well, like I said earlier, for us it was really important to be. In [02:13:00] a place where we felt like we were on vacation. So it was really nice to be by the water.
Eva: Mm.
Kiele: and it was really nice to be out of our home. And that's something I wasn't sure how I would feel if I don't, I didn't know if I would wanna be in the comfort of my own home or be somewhere else in a foreign country.
Um, but it ended up being a great choice because, you know, it was, everything was so smooth and I felt every day, like I could really relax. I mean, I'm in
Eva: I think that's okay. So I just wanna punctuate that because I know people who've gone through IVF and it's stressful. Like that pressure and just, just all of it. And I think,
Kyley: And the whole idea that like, oh, you just need to relax and like with the, the pressure to relax, which only makes it harder, right? That's like if I don't relax properly, then this won't work and so I really can't fucking relax. Like that is excruciating
Kiele: Yes, Yes. And, and [02:14:00] sometimes you think you're relaxed and you're not,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: and you know what, what I was afraid of was being in a relaxing environment and not being able to relax.
Eva: right. Right.
Kiele: yeah, I, I'm also in a position where I could go for. Two months and just be there. And I'm also in a position where I don't have to work for two months if I don't want to.
And I know a lot of people don't have that luxury. However, I will say that if you do work for yourself and you have the ability to take off, and you're in this position where you are thinking about having a baby and want to go through ivf, it is worth it to go because the cost of IVF treatments there are way less expensive than here.
Granted, you pay out of pocket there, but still if you compare apples to apples, it is way less expensive. Another thing that I really loved that would made it way less stressful was the fact that everything is included. All of the [02:15:00] ultrasound appointments that's included, and in the states, it's not included.
And some of the appointments can be anywhere from $200 to 800. Per appointment and you're going every other day. Right. Another thing that's included when you go to Mexico is the, uh, medication. And in the states it can be anywhere on average of 3000 to $500 per, per round.
Eva: Wow. Wow.
Kiele: you know, in, in Mexico it's very, it's way less expensive.
Um, like I said earlier, I just believe that the culture really has to do with what you experience there. I mean, everyone is so service-oriented and hospitable and really nice and that really translates over to the care, I believe. And when I was at the clinic, I mean, I saw foreigners every time I was there from Europe, different countries in Europe, from the states, locals in Mexico, um, I mean, all over the place.
I've met three women from San Francisco, you [02:16:00] know, so it's a, it was a really cool to see other women, um, Coming to the clinic and experience this and, and having a good, uh, yeah, having a good time. So,
Kyley: breaking news. Other countries have better reproductive health than the
Kiele: yep. Breaking news. We actually looked at Greece initially, to be honest. Um, but with the time difference, it was just too much because they were about 10 hours ahead of us and we just couldn't swing it. We also looked at wow, Sweden. But again, same thing, time difference. And my husband was so funny, he cracked a joke.
He's like, If only Cuba was open, um, which it wasn't. He's not wrong, but I would be kind of fearful for the, their updated equipment. Um, but you know, that's not happening.
Eva: you know, so, okay, so we had a guest, Nike on the show a couple weeks ago, and she talked about like, I can't get this Ever since she said it, I can't get outta my head. She was like, we talk about other countries as quote unquote Third World, and there's this connotation of like, [02:17:00] Oh, America's more developed and better and these other places are somehow more poverty stricken.
And we have these ideas of like how they are. with everything and all of our rights being stripped away, like all of this, I, you know, it really feels like Handmaid's tale. Like, and we're becoming third world. Like I really, my, my
Kyley: Nike's work phrase is just, we are a third world country. Like, you know, in terms of, uh,
Eva: And I, when I, I see that like, there's, so the, the, the houseless population in Portland is fucking insane.
And I just like, who are we to stick our noses up at like, other country thinking that we're better when, like, there's other countries are doing so many things, right? And America is just, as we all know, I don't, you know, I, Yeah. Lots
Kiele: doing it a bit wrong lately. Um, you know, we used to be, The greatest country we used to be. And things have just gone real sour. It's so funny that you mention about other countries cuz my, my virtual assistant is in [02:18:00] Zimbabwe and I tell her about the healthcare here and she is just floored.
She's like, I can't believe that, you
Eva: Same in Taiwan. And when I, my cousin, when I tell her about like mass shootings, she's like, cannot comprehend. And she literally said, she was like, If that, if I lived where that was happening, I couldn't live my life. Like that's what she said. Cuz that's, how do you explain that to people and like that children are dying And she's like, I don't understand how that exists.
It's, You shouldn't be able to understand that, you know?
Kiele: Yeah. I agree. Last week was really, um, eye opening because, you know, the gun rights laws, um, got passed in a way. Yeah. And then, uh, that the same, on the same day. Women's rights were taken away. So it's just like a weird place we're in. Um, I just, I don't wanna get too far in the negative of it because the, I can really go down that rabbit hole I'm sure a lot of us can.
Um, which is [02:19:00] why I just, I just live my life every day to the fullest and just try to be as happy as possible because we're only here once. Right. Um, but it is, going back to what you were saying, it is really scary here and a lot of other countries are, they just, they're doing it right. And, um, most people think of Mexico like, Oh, Super third world, but they're not, They're so not, it's not even like that.
It's, that's, that's laughable.
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And I will say though, cuz we actually, you know, we're, we have you here to talk about other things and so I definitely wanna make sure that we focus on that. But I will say for anyone who does feel like, you know, you're go spiraling and we can, and it gets dark. We actually just had a wonderful conversation.
Uh, so last week's podcast, um, with uh, Okay. Do you remember her name?
Kyley: Jennifer, please edit this out while we look up her name. So we aren't really truly the worst. Hos hosts
Eva: Oh my god, I feel awful
Kiele: No, you guys do this all the
Eva: it was like such a great conversation. Hold on.[02:20:00]
Kyley: Um, yeah, I couldn't remember her last name. Um,
Kiele: over
Kyley: Okay.
Eva: Yeah, do over. Okay. Uh, Jennifer, we're gonna, we're gonna pick up again. Um, Oh yeah. So, but if you are feeling like, you know, maybe it's overwhelming and the news is like, you know, you can spiral down the, down into the hole.
I just wanna recommend that you guys all check out our last week's episode with Marissa because it was such a great, short and sweet actually, um, support for both. Yeah. Nourishing, I think about, about all of this stuff. Yeah. So we have that
Kyley: So you're off the hook from having to solve our emotional distress. Kelly
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Oh my gosh.
Kyley: I will actually say, when your name came across our inbox, I got so excited because obviously like our, you know, our show's about spirituality and, you know, the kind of journey of dropping deeper into ourselves and, um, all transparency food is just a complicated place for me personally, and I know for a lot of us.
And so, [02:21:00] um, yeah, it is with entirely selfish reasons that I'm just really excited to learn more about, um, the, the space that you hold. Because immediately upon like reading more about your work, it was clear to me that you're holding space in a different way, right? That's not about this, like, you know, Diet culture or, you know, fix it oriented mindset around food.
And I think, again, just speaking of my own personal history, I have, it has often felt unavailable for me to engage with that kind of like diet culture stuff. And also I have for a long time wanted a different relationship with food, right? I've wanted it to feel more like nourishing and easeful. And it has felt like, okay, there's, there is a, there is a good solution out there, but I don't know what it is.
Um, and so, so I'm just really thrilled to have you here and, and, and, yeah, speaking from your wisdom,
Eva: Yeah, and, and bef, I'm gonna jump in real quick slide in here. To add to that, I also really love this idea of food [02:22:00] connected to sensuality because it's something that I think I've. often thought of, but don't think I have the language or the experience for, and I think you're the person, perfect person to come on here and maybe shed some sh shed some light on that connection.
Kiele: very excited about this conversation and I, um, thank you for, for, for sharing all of that. And, uh, yeah, I'm excited to shift to your thought process on food and not just food cooking. You know, really a lot of what I talk about is how to prepare your food and how to connect to your food and, um, it's a skill that a lot of people look at as a pain in the ass and they don't have time.
And what they're really saying is they don't have time to nourish themselves and they don't have time to. Feed themselves good food to gain energy and feel satiated and feel good about themselves. And, um, that's really where I start the shift with the people that work with me. So I love this topic. I could talk about it all [02:23:00] day.
It lights me on fire. It's really
Eva: Well, I know when I think that I don't have time to cook, really what that is, what's happening in those moments is I feel disconnected from food. And I think, and I I I, I have the experience of both of being really connected with food in like a, in a beautiful way in like this. It does feel spiritual.
Um, and also then getting really busy or caught up in other things. And really, when I say I don't have time, yeah, it just feels like I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting actually that there's something joyful about, about our connection to food if we have the space and, and, and the resources and, and all that stuff.
So, yeah.
Kyley: And just to, uh, add on that too, one of the big things that I've observed is for years I've been the kind of person that's like, um, like, oh, I don't, like, I don't, I don't enjoy the day to day cooking, Right. I'm a like, I'll cook on Sunday. I use every dish in the house and then I won't cook [02:24:00] again for the rest of the week.
Right. But, um, but often have felt like, Oh, it's just annoying. I don't know. I'll just eat cereal. Right? Like, I'm kind of famous for like, just, I'll just have toast. I'll just have cereal because it's just too much work. I'll eat, I eat a lot, you know, a lot of
Kiele: We all, we all go through that. I go through that. I'm not saying that that's gonna disappear, but what I'm saying is that, you know, there are other ways to enjoy even that process.
Kyley: and what was fascinating to me and like a really big light bulb moment was once my kids were born, and I made all the time in the world like, Oh, my daughter will, my, like, she needs all, she needs the crus cut off my, my son wants this food. My daughter, Oops. You don't want the oranges. I just cut off like, Right.
Like I will, I will my, my, my, you know. Oh are you, I I I watch their emotions as it relates to when they might be hungry. I like really make ti time to, oh, we're leaving the house. Has everybody had fruit for the day? Right. Like I put so much energy and attention and it really made [02:25:00] me realize how much it wasn't that, uh, and isn't that food is complicated or too much, it's that, uh, like my kids' needs are fine.
Right. It really was, is very clear to me that it's actually a better relationship with like, am I willing to make my own needs and desires important? Um,
Kiele: Like you love
Kyley: do it for them.
Kiele: Right. But where's the love for yourself in those moments? Where's the love for yourself? I have to tell you a story. I have a client, um, who. For her 60th birthday. Her two daughters gifted her my program. This was a couple years ago, and at the time I had a six week program and I extended it to 12 now.
So anyway, um, she, her whole life had a very terrible relationship with food because she felt like, She wasn't worthy. And it all stems from your childhood and your past. And from when she was a very young age, she had a lot of siblings and her family was very poor. [02:26:00] And so she was told she can't eat a lot of food, and food is too expensive and only certain days of the week they can have like a full meal and they could only afford to eat really bad food.
So she grew up with that thought and belief in her head and made that her story her entire life. And that bled into her relationships, her work, her family, everything. And it wasn't until she was like in her late fifties, she started realizing that she was worth it. Within all that time of her whole entire life, she had eating disorders.
Um, she had a terrible relationship with any kind of food. She didn't like to cook, she didn't like to nourish herself and really struggled with depression until her late fifties. Then she started realizing, Wait, wait, wait. I can rewrite this narrative and these are my beliefs that I've had since I was a kid, but they're actually not my.
At all. [02:27:00] So it took some time for her to rewrite her beliefs and create a new story for what was current in her life. And so then together we learned, uh, she took my group program. So she learned how to find the joy in cooking and make it pleasure filled and accept herself and give herself the self love that she deserves.
And it's still a struggle for her today. You know, I'm not saying that, Oh my God, after my program, you'll be cured. No, This is gonna be a constant in your life if you spent 60 years of your life feeling and thinking one way and not nothing overnight is gonna change. Right. And it's, um, it takes a lot of willpower and uh, and strength and courage to bring it back to yourself and say, No, I deserve this.
And take the steps, um, and take action to change. It really does. You know, So
Eva: Yeah, it is beautiful.
Kiele: I just had to share that.
Eva: It's beautiful.
Kiele: We all go through our struggles. Um,
Eva: yeah, we do. But also food is [02:28:00] hu I don't know. Food is, I, it's just I love food. I, and I think anyone who knows me, like in real life, like Kylie and I, we don't get to eat together that often, but like, I think
Kyley: Even I know you love
Eva: Yeah, okay. You know, I love food.
Like I think I'm a, my friends associate with me with food because it's just, I think part of it is also culturally like Taiwanese people,
Kiele: you guys got great food.
Eva: great food, great
Kiele: all about it. You're all about the food. Mm-hmm.
Eva: tourist, you're not going to go see things. You come to Taiwan to eat things. And the question that we ask ourselves, like, you know, instead of asking How are you, The version of that in, in Chinese is like, Have you eaten yet?
Yeah. Because food, So when I see my grandparents or when the first question they ask me is like, Have you eaten? Because that's how we check in and say, How are you? Like, are you okay? Are you getting getting what you need? And then they feed you. So
Kiele: I feel that in my culture, I'm from Guam and so it's very close to Asia. And instead of, you know, when someone comes in, you don't say, How are you? You say, come and eat. Like [02:29:00] immediately you're forced to eat something and if you don't eat something it's disrespectful. So, you know, that's how it is in my culture.
Culture. It's hilarious.
Eva: But it's complicated. It's also complicated. So it's like there's all this cultural stuff around it and also biological stuff. So I think food is just an interesting topic because it's this beautiful thing, but it's also really fucking complicated. And it, and to, I think what the story, what your story reminded me of is that food can really fuck some shit up too.
You know what I mean? and play a huge role in our life.
Kiele: yeah, it can, it can go in all different directions. Um, and then to get to the part where you enjoy cooking is like a totally different hurdle too. Um, I, I love talking about sensual cooking and sensual nourishment. It's really sort of my bread and butter and what I've created with my company. And no one else is really doing this, but I just, the two just fit together for me.
Um, but I wanna explain to your listeners what that means. Cause I'm sure they don't know what [02:30:00] the heck it means. Um, so to me, sensual nourishment means experiencing life, using all of your senses and living in gratitude every day. That is sensual nourishment. It's the ability to nourish your whole self and soul with healing in mind.
A thing I really focus on in my work is healing. It's not healthy, it's healing. There's a big difference. I think too many people focus on what's healthy and what's right they associate healthy with. Right. And I think that's wrong because that doesn't help someone connect to yourself and your body. So, You know, really for me, one of the core focuses of of my work is nourishment through self-love, self-acceptance and having a deep understanding of your own nourishment needs is imperative because eva, what you need is very different from what Kylie needs and very different from what I need.
The truth is there is no one diet, there's no one way of living, and there's [02:31:00] no one way of eating because everyone is different and requires different nourishments. So I really help women identify what that is for them while tapping into their sensuality and teaching them how to nourish themselves. So my methodologies are very different.
I like to connect nutrition, wellness, sensuality altogether in one big yarn, ball of love.
Eva: I love
Kiele: Yeah.
Kyley: Can I ask what your own journey with, um, cooking and whatnot is?
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Where should I start? Um, let me see. I'll start from the beginning. Uh, I grew up, um, on Guam and I live in Austin, Texas now. And, uh, I'm a natural born creative. I graduated in 2004 from Pratt Institute in Brooklyn.
It's an
Eva: Oh, I lived right next to Pratt on
Kiele: Did
Eva: Yeah, . And I actually had a bunch of friends who went to Pratt. Yeah.
Kiele: I I, Man, I know Taffy so well, like that street. I lived on Clifton Place between Classon [02:32:00] and Franklin for like two years. Uh, Brad is a, it's a, it's a fun place to be and a lot of people live around there. It's
Eva: Yeah. Great people. Great neighborhood,
Kiele: When did you live there?
Eva: Uh, I think I left in 2016, so I think I was there from like, for like five years before that. 11 maybe? 2011, 2016. Yeah.
Kiele: Wow. So the neighborhood changed by the time you got there. It already was like getting super nice. When I was there, it was the ghetto and
Eva: Oh yeah.
Kiele: have a bicycle, um, with an easy lock, like a secure lock, but an easy one. So if you were like running from gangs, you could just like go. It was like that
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, it was a rough, It was a rough, yeah, it was definitely gentrified by the time I got
Kiele: Oh my god.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's changed a lot. So anyway, I lived in New York, um, for 20 years and was, had a totally, totally different career. I worked as a handbag and accessories designer in the fashion industry for 15. And, uh, in 2008, I suffered a seven month long metal poisoning that left me very sick and in need of [02:33:00] some serious, like self care, self-love, and I needed to prioritize my nourishment.
And at the time I was like 27 or something and I didn't know what the heck to do. So anyway, I just was like feeling all the things as, you know, a New York woman like hustling, you know, just not taking care of myself in the ways that I should. And I suffered from burnout, confusion, illness, stress, all of those things.
Eva: Can I interrupt really quick and ask, how did you find out that you had a metal poisoning?
Kiele: Oh, um, I was in China. With my coworker. I used to travel to China like six times a year all the time back then. And, uh, both of her parents were research doctors. And so she took pictures of my body because I had rashes and lesions from like the top of my head to the bottoms of my feet. Like I looked like my skin was just falling off and red and gross, and I was on a lot of steroids.
So she sent pictures to them and they were both research doctors in Seattle, and they were like, It looks like you have some [02:34:00] kind of poisoning something, it like inflammation and poisoning. And by the way, the doctors at NYU and the New York Allergy Center did not know what the heck was wrong with me.
Like they just kept giving me steroids and kept taking biopsies and saying, You have an infection. And I'm like, Yes, I know. Tell me where it's coming from. And they just couldn't do it. And so it took that, and plus the internet back then wasn't as great. And so I was just researching for hours. And so then it turned out they were like, it seems like a metal thing in your body.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: I realized that six months prior I got metal braces in my mouth to straighten my teeth and hadn't, hadn't thought about it because who thinks about that kind of stuff? So I went to my orthodontist and she confirmed that the brace system that I had in my mouth had 15% nickel and I just happened to be allergic to nickel and they didn't test that at the allergy center.
So they, once she took them out, I felt better, but I wasn't anywhere near healed. So,[02:35:00]
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, I mean, it was affecting my nervous system, my skin, um, I, my liver, my kidneys, like all of my elimination organs, my stomach, I mean every organ was kind of in shock, my lungs. Um, so.
Eva: crazy.
Kiele: it was crazy. So I took a year to clean myself out and got really strict, um, about what I put in my body and just got off all the drugs and stopped going to the doctors and just read every book I could about food and healing.
And back then, plant-based veganism was just coming out as popular in like 2007, 2008. So I just hopped right on that bandwagon and became fully vegan back then. I. It, it evolved into plant base, but because, but back then they had like, you know, vegan burgers of everything. Vegan was just coming out. It hasn't turned cultish yet at that
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: so and so, uh, I, it, it, it took me a year to clean myself out [02:36:00] and, um, then I became like a super preacher, veganism, and, uh, when was that? 2008, 2009. And then in 2014, I decided to enroll myself, um, in the right education because I really wanted to learn more. What I found was I love knowing, like, and I love this knowledge.
Um, I love being passionate about my nutrition. But I didn't really know where to take it. And I wanted to have like a health coaching kind of certificate. But at the same time, I really wanted to learn good skills. And so I found this great school in New York called the Natural Gourmet Institute, and it is the only, I think, found there's more.
But at the time, it was the only health supportive culinary school in the States. And I enrolled myself for a year. So I learned, I mean, about cooking, healing, nutrition, Chinese medicine, our Veda, um, it was a real culinary school. [02:37:00] So I learned about all the things and it was a great year of my life. And I was still working full-time in the fashion industry throughout all of this.
And I started part-time chefing gigs. I started, um,
Kyley: Can I, Can I, Sorry, can I just pause cuz I love the sound of this school. Like I wanna like create an alternate path in life in which I go to this school cuz it sounds so fucking great. I'm like, I wanna know all of these things.
Kiele: It was fantastic. Um, I, I didn't just want like a health coaching certificate. I, I didn't, and I looked up all the, you know, health coaching places and was like, eh, this isn't really what I want. I want skills. Because during the time that I was healing, I found that I really loved eating. I loved to cook, but I didn't have the proper skills and I wanted to learn the proper skills.
And I found that cooking was really the barrier that people have when it comes to getting better. If you don't like to cook, you're never gonna do it because you can hand someone like a [02:38:00] meal plan all day long and say, Here, follow this. But if they don't have the passion to be in the kitchen, and if they don't have the skills to know how to chop, you know, a carrot properly in like five different ways, or, you know, if they don't understand temperature, they don't understand the energetics of cooking, they're never gonna do it.
Eva: It's
Kyley: if every single step feels complicated, Right. This is why like, you know, my husband is mostly cooking. I have like five recipes because it's like, um, if every single step feels complicated, then it, it's emotionally it's a huge lift. Right? Whereas if you have the foundation of like, Oh, okay, I know, like I know the foundations, it's just not the same emotional
Kiele: No, yet you'll love it. Even something like cleaning and doing dishes all is incorporated in this training. You learn cuz a lot of people hate to wash dishes. You learn how to
Kyley: Oh, have you been the fly on the wall in my marriage,
Kiele: No,
Kyley: I even have a therapist once who was like, You've [02:39:00] been fighting about the dishes for a decade. I'm like, I know. I know. I know.
Kiele: I have a YouTube video on my YouTube channel of how to find pleasure in washing dishes. I'm gonna send it to you
Kyley: Please do. My husband would He'll yeah. It would be very pleased if I watched this video,
Eva: hope. Yeah.
Kiele: I, I got together at like a, a women's, not a group, but like a women's wellness get together here in Austin of just like, actually it wasn't even wellness. It was like female entrepreneurs in Austin just getting together and hanging out. And there's one girl on there who is hilarious. She was just like, Oh, I hate to cook.
And I was like, Is it cooking though? She's like, No, I just hate washing dishes. And in about five minutes I single-handedly switched and changed her mind and shifted how she thought about dishes just by talking about and identifying little things that she hated. And I'm like, Well, what if you like got better? Like dishware? What do you what? And she's like, Oh, I hate my dishes. I was like, Then get new ones. And she was like, Oh, you solved my problem. I'm like, And then I was like, And what if you got the dishware you like and [02:40:00] think about it like an honor. The dishes that feed you, you know, then connecting it back to spirituality, that's what you guys talk about, right?
And so like the, these dishes are what feeds you and your family. And if you honor that, like think of them as another tool in your kitchen that you use. And that's how you start to think about all the stuff, um, and all the things in your kitchen. So you respect them
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: completely different thing. It kind of changes the game a little bit.
Kyley: interesting. Okay. Sorry, I'm just gonna follow this train. Uh, I'm feeling resentful as you're proposing that I like my dishes. Like, like actual, my body's response is like,
Kiele: You're like, No,
Kyley: like cranky. It's like I'm cranky at the dishes themselves that I'm like, How dare you ask me. Anyways, this is an interesting, Clearly the dishes have a lot of emotions that I can sit with, is what I'm trying to say.
Kiele: Nice. I have, um,
Kyley: watch your YouTube video and then consult my journal
Kiele: Yeah, write it out. Um, I have one client that realized like, Oh my God, I [02:41:00] eat on paper plates and all of my cups are plastic. And I'm like, Why is that? She said, Because I have a kid. I'm like, So she was like, Oh my God. It just, she just, her per perspective changed and she was like, I gotta get better dishes.
And then she really started loving cooking and plating things taking pictures of her food and like showing it off. It was like completely game
Kyley: are actually giving me a huge aha. Oh my God, this is fucking great. Okay, so what I'm realizing, cause I'm sitting here thinking like, what is the part of the dishes that I hate? And you know what it is? It's when like, things are really, Cause we don't have a dishwasher, so
Kiele: that's a big thing.
Kyley: it's terrible. And our, we just don't, like, there's no way to, to fix anything in our kitchen is like a hundred grand project.
So like, we don't have a dishwasher. Um, and, um, and I don't, I, it's actually when like dishes are gr like, like really dirty,
Eva: Yeah. I think things are like caked on there.
Kyley: or just like, like if it's like, like if it's like a plate that had toast on it, or even like your plate [02:42:00] that had chicken on it, that's fine. But it's when there's like gunky stuff on it. So I'm realizing if I just rinse off all the gunky stuff when I first put them in the sink,
Eva: Oh my god. Girl. Facts. Like that's a thing. Like, that's like how my, like my parents are like, they like instilled that in me cuz they could get mad when things got stuck on the dishes and No, you always have to like rinse it off
Kiele: Yeah. Or soak it or soak
Kyley: I soak, so I'm a big, That's, that's what I do is I soak it. But what I'm realizing is that soaking, it still leaves it like grow. Like I don't wanna touch it later.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: So if I just rinse it out,
Kiele: rinse it out.
Kyley: it by the way. I just rinse it out. And then I have just a stack of dishes that are like, eh, not that dirty. don't have to touch anything gross.
Eva: Oh, this is real. I mean, I know this is like a, a small quote, small thing, but I actually find it very
Kiele: But it's a big thing though. It's a really big issue because a lot of people equate not liking to cook with dish washing, and then they realize, oh, it's not even the cooking [02:43:00] thing. It's dish washing, which is like step three, right?
Kyley: like also, yeah, and it's like a big emotional component of like, honestly, since apparently I'm just making this my own personal coaching session. Thanks everybody. It's also like a big component of like, Like a certain guilt that I feel in my marriage, cuz my husband does like, like cooking more.
So he cooks more often, but he also notices when things is full more so he ends up cooking and cleaning more, which is like, that's shitty, that's not fair for anybody. Right. Um, and so, so I just feel like a kind of low grade guilt all the time in the kitchen. So this feels,
Kiele: It's triggering.
Kyley: it's actually like I'm almost sitting here like, oh, I could even split the task in half where like in the morning I just rinse everything out and then I come back in the afternoon and actually wash them.
Like, like space is actually, this literally has been an issue in my marriage for 10 years. So like, this is big pal. Thanks a bunch,
Kiele: [02:44:00] now, no problem. I, you know, I have my rules about like being in the kitchen and things being clean. So one of them is, don't fuck with my knives, because I love my knives and I'm very OCD about my knives. And if someone uses it, wash it and wipe it clean and dry right away. And I, I, I have to, It's a thing.
Um, and another tip, if you don't like to wash dishes is when you cook, make sure your sink is completely clean and clear because it sucks to cook. And then have your, your sink completely filled with stuff already. It's. Making the problem even worse. So what I like to do is have my sink completely clear of any dishes so that way I can get as messy as I want if I want to.
But that's one thing I really do love to teach is the the dance between the kitchen sink and the stove and the cutting board and just how it could all be like one [02:45:00] amazing dance. You know?
Kyley: Well, and I mean, I know I'm being kind of silly and really like making us
Kiele: You're not being silly.
Kyley: but I think what's, what feels so beautiful about this is like what I, I can see in your magic is the overwhelm of kitchen cooking food that keeps people feeling like, I don't know what to do with any of it.
I just don't like any of it. I'll keep eating toast. It's like, uh, yeah. This way of like breaking it down into tinier pieces and then making those pieces feel safe and accessible. And that is, yeah, this is just very
Eva: Yeah. And examining things I think that maybe people don't usually examine
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Um, I really love, so you mentioned toast. One of the things I really love to do is help women understand why they want to eat certain foods. Because we all have cravings, right? And cravings stem from a feeling they stem from, you know, something we're doing. They stem from so many things. And since we're women, [02:46:00] we're cyclical.
So like, we're feeling all kinds of things every week, like, and it's all different at all times. So one of the things I really love to focus on is teaching women. Not just what, but why? Cause I think that's super important. Um, a lot of what my work, uh, how do I say this in English? A lot of what my what, uh, the focus of my work has to do a lot with Chinese medicine and how it relates to food.
So I teach about flavors and you know, how to not only make food delicious, but actually how certain flavors can heal your organs and control your emotions that you go through. So you mentioned toast and anytime people have toast, a lot of times it's wheat, right? They're at some kind of bread sourdough.
Internally that's very grounding. You wanna feel very satiated and grounded. And a lot of times people have that with butter or a jam, right? Um, and so that sweet flavor of a jam, if you have it on your toast, [02:47:00] like paired with the crunch that you have, and then the silkiness and savoriness of like the butter and saltiness of the butter, it all sort of works together.
And all of those things do something different for your body. Um, and so it's really fun. So the sweet flavors, let's say if you have Strawberry Jam, I like to get really scientific with this stuff. And this is all Chinese medicine. Um, the
Eva: mouth. I'm laughing because, Yeah, sorry, I'm laughing because I met my, my, I can feel myself salivating the, the, the, just like the talking about like the crunch of the toast and like the, the sweetness of the jam. It's like, it, uh, it's just, I'm having a physical reaction
Kiele: Yeah. Like do I want that right now?
Eva: Well, I love jam and toast. That's why, And I know like crave it for comfort. Like for me it's very much like a, this feels like it's, Yeah. Grounding
Kiele: Grounding. Mm-hmm. . Like, who doesn't love it? If you don't love it? You, I hate to say it, but you're a little crazy. But anyway, um, the sweetness of the jam also makes you really excited because sugar brings that feeling of joy in you. [02:48:00] Also, on top of that sweetness, just sweet as a flavor. And I'm not talking about like sugar, right?
But I'm talking about sweet, natural flavors, like sweetness from strawberry, your cherry grape jam that actually is really nourishing for your stomach and your spleen according to Chinese medicine. And so there's so many different things that go on, and I really love to educate women, not just like what, but why and how, and how all of the flavors connect to each other four different purposes.
Um, and that's how you connect to nature. I mean, it's all crazy complicated and really fun to learn. Not complicated. I think it's complicated at first, but you, you end up real, Yeah. You end up realizing that like, Every decision that you make about food, there's a purpose behind it. And there are certain, there are certain things that you crave and there are reasons why.
I'll give you a great example. So whenever people have hangovers, you wake up the next morning and you're feeling like absolute garbage [02:49:00] crap shit. And a lot of times people just feel like they're not, like, they're just kind of out there, you know, like, like you can't really focus very well,
Eva: totally out of it. Floating. Like, I get really bad hangovers now, which is one reason I, I barely drink anymore, cuz my hangovers are just not worth it. But yeah, it is like a, it's like I'm not here. It's like I'm just, I,
Kiele: You're somewhere else.
Eva: yeah. My brain isn't working.
Kiele: So in Chinese medicine, that's what's called expansive, right? There are two, um, opposing, um, theories. Uh, let me say that again. There's a theory in Chinese medicine, um, about expansiveness and ness, and they're polar opposites from each other, but they need each other. Sort of like the concept of yin and yang.
It's the same kind of thing. And I know everyone's heard of yin and yang, so when you are hung over, you are expansive, you're feeling very outward, like you're, you're the opposite of grounded. And so the first thing that people reach for when they're [02:50:00] hung over, um, besides if you're the type of person, if you know you need another drink, that's very. But the first thing that people reach for is some kind of breakfast, comfort food, like eggs with bacon and toast and potatoes, right? Oftentimes like hash browns or something else. So if you think about the flavors and you think about what those foods are, um, especially potatoes, they're grown in the ground, right?
So they're immediately kind of grounding. And the way people like it is salty because you need to replenish all the salt in your body, right? So what you're really craving is something super grounding. My favorite thing to have and to eat when I'm hungover is me. So soup, it'll cure you. Like that
Eva: Really?
Kiele: thing?
Yes,
Eva: were you? Like five years ago
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: or like 10 years ago?
Kiele: Favorite thing. So for all listeners, if you ever get hung over, have some miso soup because the salt from the miso is super nourishing for you. It'll give you the electrolytes you need, the [02:51:00] seaweed, um, and the nutrients from the seaweed will give you all the vi the vitamins and minerals that you just got rid of.
The tofu will give you protein if that's in it, you know, I mean, it's like the greatest thing for you. So if you ever get hung over, trust me, have some miso soup the next day you will feel right as rain. It's fantastic. But that's just the power of flavor. And not just that, the miso and the seaweed, they're all part of the water element in Chinese medicine.
So that brings the hydration back into your body and makes you feel really calm and soothed and, uh, all of that. So it's pretty fun to learn about.
Eva: that's really cool.
Kiele: So,
Kyley: Yeah, I am. Oh my God, the nerd in me is like, wants to just break down every favorite
Eva: food. Yeah.
Kyley: and like why and what it's doing.
Eva: can, can we do one, I'm curious, like what, is there like a go-to that you have,
Kiele: Um, What do you mean?
Eva: Oh, I'm talking asking Kylie if
Kiele: Oh, okay.
Kyley: I mean, for me it's like my go-to is always like some kind of like, [02:52:00] like crunchy red product
Kiele: Crunchy bread, product
Kyley: Like, um, like, like crackers, toast, cereal, sometimes chips, but less so. Oh, you know what? Okay. Recently, this is a new, this is like my, like the past, like in a couple of months my like go-to comfort snack food.
Not, it's not historically, but it's been recently is what my kids call cheesy chips. Aka like tortilla chips with some cheddar cheese on them. But for some reason they call them cheesy chips instead of nachos. Um, but it's like, not it. Yeah. I was actually just thinking, I wonder why this has become a, like, snack that I want all the time because it's not, it hasn't like historically been a comfort food, but
Kiele: So chips, like potato chips or like
Kyley: No, like tortilla corn, tortilla
Kiele: Okay. I mean, you know, corn and just, I mean, forget the chip part of it, but just corn as a food is part of the earth element. And I can go over the elements just to give you a little bit more knowledge. Um, if your listeners don't know and if you don't know about the [02:53:00] elements, but corn is an earth element.
Food, which is immediately, again, like very grounding. It's grown on a stock. And so it's super strong for your body if you like, begets like, so if something grows in a stock and is really strong, it's like close to the ground. Also, earth element foods are almost always orange, yellow, or light brown in color.
That immediately is going to ground you. And again, corn is sweet, right? Sweet, sweet flavors are part of the earth element. And so the sweet flavors nourish your stu and your spleen. They make you feel like really creative and imaginative, but you know, there's a yin and yang in everything. So if it goes a little bit dark, having too much of earth element foods like.
Corn, potatoes, uh, sweet potatoe squashes. It could actually create some worry within you. And so it's really fun to kind of learn what food can do for your body and also to note where you're at emotionally and mentally, um, and how to combat that with food [02:54:00] and with cooking, because the way you prepare your food also makes a difference, right?
So, you know, a raw onion is a very different thing from like a cook sweet onion. And that process is very different in your body and you have different reactions from that. So super fun to learn about. And the cheese on top of that. Um, So it, what? It depends on what kind of cheese, I guess, like cheddar, something like that.
Um, I mean, cheese is super salty. It has that really umami, savory flavor. Um, and it's just so, I mean, I love cheese even though having too much of it is like not so good for me. But cheese is really, really good because it brings feelings of, let me see, like, hmm, how do I say this in English? Um, like being organized.
I mean, it sounds kind of crazy that like cheese will help you be organized. I don't mean that, but it's all, I promise it all like works together in Chinese medicine, but it really benefits like sluggish people. It makes you [02:55:00] feel like really good. It's a great source of, um, protein, you know, nutrients, vitamins, all of that stuff.
And so, and it's also like fat too. It's good quality fat. So that on top with the, you know, nachos or the tortilla chips, it kind of makes sense to me, you know?
Kyley: What's funny is also just for the record, like I also eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I'm just being honest about like, you know, my comfort foods just for the
Eva: so funny, Kylie. I hadn't even thought of that,
Kyley: I self conscious, like, um, but what I think is, I'm really intrigued by what your point about like too much. Um, earth element can bring on worry because one of the things like when I was, especially when I was younger, I've talked on the show often about high, like had like a ton of anxiety in my twenties, um, and into my thirties.
Um, and I had this like really cyclical relationship with like, like that I was really aware that I started to become very aware of, of how like my anxiety would spike and I would re, I would [02:56:00] reach for like, uh, earthy, mostly carbohydrate, like red products. Um, like literally to like quell an anxiety attack.
And, and I started to observe how like, it was also like, anyway, there's just this, there was like very clearly like a link between these two things. So, um, I like that Chinese medicine speaks to what some, a pattern that I saw in myself when I was in my twenties. So I think that's, that's super fascinating.
Kiele: lot of people go through that and I think, um, that. Clearly you have your comfort foods. I mean, we all have comfort food. Um, but it's so fun to learn about how Chinese medicine works when it comes to food and learn about cravings and like why certain things exist.
Kyley: Because then you can actually tend to the real thing,
Kiele: you can, Yes, and I think the main.
Um, the main message here is to just, with Chinese medicine in general and even our veta, is to have balance. You know, [02:57:00] Um, no one element is better than the other. No one food is better than the other. I am not your typical nutrition and cooking wellness expert that says, Oh my God, don't eat bread. Because I do think that bread, if you know, baked well, and it has good ingredients, has a place in our life.
I'm not the type of person to say, Oh, don't have butter and make everything low fat. No, I, I think the more natural and whole, the better. And I think the main message is have a variety of all of those things, and make sure you have foods of all color and all texture, variety is really what's going to make you live longer and make you feel good in a whole, and balanced.
And that's just it. So for me, the five elements really helps with this. Just on a side note, I want to send you, is the chat available? Okay. I wanna send you, let me see, um, a graphic so you can, Is that all [02:58:00] right? So just so you can edit this out if you want, but I want to give you a couple BR graphics that I give my, um, my people.
Eva: Can we share, Is it, is it like a link?
Kiele: um, it's not a link. I'm trying to, it's a jpeg I just pulled it up, but I'm trying to like put it in, but I can find a link somewhere and then add it to your, Why isn't it working? Sometimes this doesn't work and it's so annoying. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to like drag it there and it's not, Oh, it's like the worst. Anyway, Sorry. I don't know if it's gonna work cause I'm trying to drag it and it's not working. Mm-hmm. . No. I don't know why like the plus sign comes up, but it's just not working, so.
Eva: Oh,
Kiele: I know. I know. Anyway, I will, um, I'll figure it out. , I'm sorry. Or I'll send it to you after. Um, and you can edit this out.
Eva: I'm gonna make a note for Jennifer. Jennifer who's our editor. Jennifer, can you might, would you mind mind editing that part out? Cool. Thanks.
Kiele: Um, what was I [02:59:00] talking about? I completely forgot.
Eva: You talking about the elements?
Kiele: Oh right.
Kyley: was actually gonna ask, I actually have a question that I can jump back in
Kiele: yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, oh,
Kiele: What happened?
Eva: I
Kyley: hello? Hello? Hello.
Eva: Oh, now we can hear you. Yeah. You
Kyley: That was weird. I froze.
Eva: but we heard you. Yeah. You said something
Kiele: You have a question?
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, well, yeah, hold on. And actually, I'm realizing I'll use this moment to plug in my laptop. Um, since, So we're, we're doing, we're doing all of our interruptions at the same time. Um, catch myself on, Sorry,
Eva: No worries.
Kyley: here we go. Okay. Um, actually speaking on the five elements, um, I, I mean, I know them from like a witchy perspective, , but I would love it [03:00:00] if you could walk us through the five elements and sort of put them in the context of, of, of your work and Chinese medicine. I think
Eva: And I would say, I feel like my aunt's been trying to teach me about my element since I was like a kid. And sometimes I would just be like, Oh, like I don't, you know, I don't know if you guys know, but like Asian parents, families can be so particular about Chinese medicine and like they get really, you're not supposed to eat anything cold, essentially, like ever.
And they give you shit for eating cold things, which is
Kiele: Yes.
Eva: anyway, so that's a whole thing. So sometimes I like, I want, I think it'll be good for me to hear it from you also, from someone who I think can break it down in like really practical terms
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Kyley: this like what reminds me of when, Sorry. Just as an aside, like my husband will say the same thing, like he'll like give me the same advice all the time and then I'll come home one day and I'll be like, You know what Eva said? And he's like, What
Eva: totally. Exactly. Exactly. It's like it's, it sinks in so easily when it's from
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. He's like, Oh really? That's great advice. I'm so glad you heard that[03:01:00]
Eva: Okay.
Kiele: Oh my gosh. Um, I know what you mean about, uh, Asian parents. I've been to China a lot in Hong Kong, a lot in Japan and different parts of Asia. And the, the one, number one rule is always don't have anything cold. You have things warm all the time. I'll tell you a funny story really quick before I dive into it.
Um, I used to go work at factories a lot because I was a designer and I'd stay at these factories, you know, all day for like two to four weeks at a time. And I was always so confused because in like downtown Shenzen in a factory, There would be like these cool, not coolers, but these dispensers of tea and with piping hot tea and it's like 105 degrees in this factory, but these people are drinking tea.
And I'm like, What are they doing? I don't get
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: You know, like, what is happening? And they're like, Oh, actually internally it cools you down. I'm like, Still don't get it. But the more I learned, the more I started to understand that process, that it wasn't necessarily about the heat of the [03:02:00] liquid, it was about what happened internally in your body, um, and how it cooled things down, and also more importantly, how it kept your digestion flowing properly.
And so it was really, yeah, it was really interesting. So my nutrition philosophy is very different from other nutrition experts and professionals out there. I really love to focus on root cause healing, mind body, soul connection, and ancient food wisdom, which is based on traditional Chinese medicine and Aveda, which are for people who don't know, to ancient medical practices that have existed for thousands of years.
So that's really one of, um, my core philosophies in my work is educating women on the healing energetic properties of food versus, like I said earlier, the healthy nutritional properties of food. So I really love to teach about the energy system and how the energy system rules all other systems in your body.
It rules the digestive system, the nervous system, the circulatory system, the respiratory [03:03:00] system, the reproductive system, all the other systems. Um, and additionally, I love to take it to the next level by teaching the healing energetic properties of cooking. all is based on our senses because in order to really understand what is going on with our bodies and understand these, um, this ancient food wisdom, you have to start with what's closest to nature.
And that's what I love about Chinese medicine. So let's talk about the elements really quick. So for those of you who don't know, there are five elements. There's fire, earth, water, metal, and wood, right? Did you know what those elements were?
Eva: Yeah. I mean, those are the elements that I, I know. I know, but I don't know. I don't know that I'd, How to dis distinguish them.
Kiele: Okay, so there's, there's five elements, and these five elements correspond with different things in nature and in real life, right? Just in life. Uh, they correspond with a season with organs in your body, with emotions that you feel [03:04:00] with flavors like we talked about, and it's a really great way to see what's going on with your body where.
Signs of imbalance and where you feel balanced. So let's go over one at a time since we're in the summertime. Let's start with fire right now. Um, it's, we're in the heat of the fire element. We just kind of started in Austin. It's like 105 degrees. So it's very hot. Um, and the season, like I said, is like summertime.
Um, the fire element corresponds with your heart and your small intestine. So any food that is part of the fire elements, um, and in that category nourishes your heart and your small intestine. Typically, they have to do with. Red foods. So think of a red bell pepper. If you look at it, it kind of looks like a heart.
Think of a strawberry. Same thing. It's a fire element. Food that nourishes your heart and your small intestine. The emotions that fire, the fire element brings to your body and brings [03:05:00] to your life are feelings of joy and laughter. If you also think about how people are in the summertime, everyone's happy, everyone's out, it's hot, everyone feels great, and when you feel really good, your heart is nourished.
Right now, everything can go dark too, right? If you have too much fire, you can get really overheated, and that can cause anxiety. You know, you can become manic about certain. So it can also go that way. But really, you know what the fire element foods should do is bring you feelings of joy and laughter.
Now, if you, if you have too much of the fire element within you and you're eating too much fire foods, um, there are certain things that show you signs of imbalance. So let's say you're depressed, um, you have insomnia, you have really heavy heart palpitations. Anything that has to do with your heart, like panic attacks, you feel restless, you have too much mental stimulation going on, or you feel really overwhelmed.
That's too much of the fire element that you [03:06:00] need to cool down
Eva: Oh, interesting. So how do you Cool that down.
Kiele: Well, I would combat that with, um, water element foods for sure. And having wood element foods. So that's why it all is connected
Kyley: Mm
Eva: Okay. That
Kiele: Yeah. So moving on. So after summertime, we're gonna get into the period where we used to call Indian summer, but I guess we can't for like political politically correct reasons now.
So we just call it late summer and um, that's represented by the earth element. So the earth element is super important because it still has the largest category of foods, and to me it's the most important I like to look at. Earth element, like the buffer element. So if ever you're feeling imbalanced in any way, bring it back to earth, which is why Kylie, for you, you know, whenever you're feeling a certain kind of way, your comfort food, I mean both of you, your comfort foods are like starchy, earthy kind of foods.
It's very natural what you go through. So again, um, the earth element corresponds with the late summer season, which is right [03:07:00] before fall. And if you think about what's going on, everything's kind of turning orange. And yellow. And you know, outside like leaves are turning, um, the foods that are the most dominant are squashes, um, zucchini, yellow squash, corn, um, rices and grains.
Carrots. Yep, exactly. So all of those foods are pretty orange and yellow in color. And all of those, um, nourish our stomach and our spleen. That's the corresponding organ organs with the earth element. The feelings that the earth element brings you are to feel really grounded and at peace and comforted, right?
Again, if it goes in a bit of a dark direction. If you're like too grounded, you can feel very, you know, worried and pensive. Um, and signs of imbalance there. If you know the earth element's completely imbalanced at your body are gas, bloating, poor digestion, loose stools, constipation, um, fatigue, weight gain, ibs, anything that has to do with the [03:08:00] stomach, basically.
Oh, um, I forgot to mention, unless I did, I don't know. I'm just going on. I'm talking. Um, the dominant flavor for the earth element, air sweet flavors and the dominant element element for the fire, I'm sorry, the dominant flavor for the fire element are bitter flavors.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: anything bitter in flavor, that's what you want during the summertime.
So like, think beer, right? Like beer, like, like a ni there's nothing better than like a nice cold beer in the summer, right? I've been actually craving a lot of very bitter tea and it's just the summer heat and like what we talked about earlier with the tea, if it's really hot outside, the bitter flavors, they cool the inside of your body down.
So it's just kind of interest. Um, and then we move on to the metal element, which is right after, which is the dominant, um, element for the fall season. And those correspond with your lungs and large intestine. And again, this is like information [03:09:00] that's out there. And this has existed for like thousands of years.
I mean, the first documents of um, Chinese medicine stem back to like, you know, 3,500 bc I'm not making any of this up. This is just what so many cultures around the world have adopted and have taken on as truth and has actually healed them. If you think about what did we do 200 years ago, you know, how did we heal ourselves?
It was really through herbs, understanding the energetics of food and understanding what things did for you, and understanding just how we connected to nature. It's really cool and interesting. So anyway, um, the me metal element corresponds with the lungs and large intestine. The feelings that it brings you are like pride.
You know, you feel really proud. A lot of metal element people, um, are like, know-it-alls in like such a good way. Like they're never wrong about anything. But again, if that goes dark, you can feel a bit more sadness and grief. And the dominant flavor of the metal element is salty flavors. So [03:10:00] think like I'm, I'm sorry, spicy pungent flavors.
So think like onions or think garlic and ginger. Those are the flavors of, um, the metal element. And if you have any signs of imbalance there, it's low energy, cough, phlegm, um, sore throat, ear, nose and throat problems, congestion. It's all kind of connected in really cool. Um, once you start to learn all of it.
Kyley: like, And so, uh, yeah, so what's the, like
Kiele: Sure.
Kyley: to the metal once.
Kiele: my, my, we, I'll give you an example. My weakest organ in my body, cuz we all have one week organ that we have to pay more attention to are my lungs. Um, I've suffered from a lot of ear, nose and throat problems and oftentimes I would get bronchitis, um, and allergies really kick in. So for me, I have to focus a lot on the metal element and nourish my lungs.
So pretty much in every meal or every day, I. [03:11:00] Onions, garlic, ginger. A big thing I like to make is just slice ginger tea with like lemon in it and call it a day. It's really easy for me. Or if I, if I have, um, a sore throat, I'll take sliced garlic with some sliced onion and just take a ton of honey and just like squeeze it on top.
Let it sit for about five minutes. The honey will actually become more liquid instead of thick because the moisture from the garlic and the onion will seep into it and make it really liquidy. And then you just eat the honey for a week and your throat problems will go away. It's so cool.
Kyley: Wow.
Eva: Cool.
Kiele: but that's like very metal element stuff, right?
So, um, oh wait, what was your question,
Kyley: Oh, I mean, I've just, I, I, I, I feel like just the nerd in me, like, like the academic, he was just like, hungry for this information. Like, it's just really fascinating to me. So I'm like putting the, the pieces, the pieces together. It's also just interesting cuz like, I always feel like, uh, if you cut [03:12:00] up garlic, I always feel like your fingers smell kind of med afterwards.
Does
Kiele: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: else has?
Kiele: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Um, I wanna explain the other two elements and then I'll talk about how they work together. So you can kind of, I'll, I'll go as quickly as I
Kyley: I'll stop interrupting you,
Kiele: No, no, no, no. Interrupt me if you want. You know, I mean, this, again, this is a fluid conversation. So after we exit the metal element and the fall season, we go into the water element, winter season, those two correspond together.
And the corresponding organs for the water element and winter season are your kidney and your bladder. And if you think about it, right, the winter time is toward the end of the year. And what's one thing that people are like doing in their lives, like new?
Eva: stock, You mean like taking stock of their reflecting? Is
Kiele: Reflecting. Yeah. And, and also like making resolutions, eliminating what they don't want. Like saying, Oh, next year I'm gonna do this and this and that. So it's a process of [03:13:00] elimination for them. And that relates to our kidneys and our bladder, because those are elimination organs. So even though we're like eliminating things from our body and our mind and our spirit subconsciously, we're like shedding things.
And that's what the water element does in your body. A lot of the foods in the water element are salty. And what salty foods do is like flush everything out. So think like miso, seaweeds, mushrooms. Mushrooms hold a lot of water. Um, anything dark or. Yeah, blue or dark green in color. Um, like eggplant, black foods are in this category, so like black sesame, charcoal, um, not like everyone's eating charcoal all the time, but you know, there we had this whole thing with charcoal bread and using charcoal that eliminates, um, toxins in your body.
Let me see what else. Black beans are really good. So anyway, what those do for you emotionally is make you feel more calm. [03:14:00] Remember what I talked about with the miso soup? Like it makes you feel more calm and in flow, but it could also go dark if you have too much water element where you almost are fearful to like step outta your comfort zone.
And the way you know that you are out of balance in the water element is if you have anything bad that has to do with your bladder, like UTIs or frequent urination or even sexual dysfunction, um, lower back pain, um, kidney stones, bladder infection, stuff like that. That's how you can tell that there's something up with, you know, the water element within your body.
And then the last one is the wood element. And that's when spring comes, right? And the corresponding organs with that, um, element and that season are your liver and your gallbladder. And so what happens in the springtime, everyone gets really excited. Shit, it's blooming. We're starting to feel good, things are turning green.
Um, and that brings on excitement and you feel like you are [03:15:00] progressing. You know that phrase spring cleaning that's like exists for a reason where everyone just wants to like start fresh, start a new start eating all the salads and doing all the things. It's that same feeling, but if it goes too dark, you can get like really irritable and angry.
Um, if, if you have that in you, right? If you're prone to that. Um, and the dominant flavor for the wood element is sour. And sour brings on purification in the body and purification of your liver and your gallbladder. So foods, basically everything green is a wood element. Food. That's like the dominant color and dominant like food.
So salads, lettuces, celery, um, zucchini, um, lemons, limes, anything sour and flavor like vinegar, also, um, eggs, chicken, these, all things. Um, these are all foods that are within this element. And if you're feeling imbalanced, you know, within this element you have anger issues, [03:16:00] um, joint pain, um, tendon pain, muscle aches, difficulty making decisions even, or arthritis basically.
So there's my main, my main point is it's so helpful to learn about all of these elements and how they play together. And again, the key is balance here. If you have a bit of everything in, you know, all the foods, in every category, every day, which is basically. Every color, you know? Um, and every flavor. If you corporate all the five flavors in your diet every day, if you have all of the colors every day, you're good.
You'll always feel balanced and feel right, always. It's really fun to learn about.
Eva: So when you're talking about balancing things out, so let's just say like you talked about joint pain or like UTIs or back pains or, uh, I can't remember what else, but the heart, like heart palpitations, right? With the fire. So she has fire. So is the idea of like if you have heart palpitations because um, that's like not aligned, do you eat the [03:17:00] opposite to like help balance that out?
So then you would eat like fire or water foods.
Kiele: Yes, Yes. So all of these elements can either nourish or extinguish something that's going on in your body. So for example, If you can just imagine all of the elements kind of together, um, all of them nourish each other. So earth, nourishes, metal, right? Metal nourishes water. Water, nourishes, wood, wood, nourishes, fire, fire, nourishes earth.
And if you think about what all of those elements do in real life, like when you have a fire and you create ash, that creates earth, right? And then the earth creates metal because within the earth, like crystals are grown, right? And then in metal that creates water from the minerals, from the crystals and then water.
It's, it's so crazy. Like if you really think about it, it's so nuts. Water creates wood because they grow the trees, right? And then wood creates fire because you cut down the trees and you create the fire. And if you abide [03:18:00] by that and understand how all of them play together, it really will start to make sense.
And so the way that you can also extinguish all the elements. So for example, if you have a lot of anxiety and you're like, Oh my God, like I'm having heart palpitations, like my, my heart is off and beating in weird ways, you have just too much fire in you. You can counter that with and cool that down with water element foods.
So literally have water or you can have earth element foods to like ground you a bit, just kind of bring you back down to earth a bit.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, it's, it all kind of works together. It's really fun to learn
Eva: I really love like the nature aspect of this. I think that like really speaks to me. It just makes sense to me that of course, Before technology or I, this kind of technology anyway, like that
Kiele: Modern medicine before modern medicine.
Eva: Yeah, yeah. That like this really, it's an advanced system, you know? This advanced system was [03:19:00] created of course in conjunction, in connection with Earth and nature.
That just makes so much sense to me.
Kiele: Yeah, it, Go ahead.
Kyley: I'm just also like, kind of relishing in, like, we've had these systems of knowledge for thousands of years and like how modern medicine has been around for like, just like a tiny little spec.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: And it's interesting how like, like how intense the investment is in being like, oh, like. not real, right?
Like, that's like you, that's not safe to trust. I think that's like a really reoccurring idea for people, right? Is that it's not safe to trust this knowledge that's been around for, you know, thousands of years,
Eva: got, that eventually like, like essentially got us here like
Kiele: yeah, yeah. Essentially you're, you're right. And I think, you know, part of the problem is that now in our modern era, we rely so [03:20:00] much on research and proven research, right? Um, and if there isn't research done and there's no statistics, then it's questionable. And with these types, Wisdom, you know, with, with these types of philosophies, um, and way of living, it's very difficult to prove.
And that's really the hardest thing. And so, you know, only recently has the, um, World Health Organization recognized Chinese medicine as actually being very beneficial to, um, our health. And that happened two years ago only. And think about, you know, how long this education has existed. I mean, thousands of years.
Aveda is the oldest form of medicine. It's like 5,000 years old. Chinese medicine came from Aveda and I think, like I said, the first records of Chinese medicine or about 3,500 years old.
Eva: yeah. But what's interesting is that that's only. In, I think [03:21:00] like western cultures, meaning like, there is such a, this, this is colonialism, right? It's like the high, the pedestal of like, um, the clinical and over, um, something maybe Yeah. More traditional or
Kyley: the earth.
Eva: Yeah. Closer to the earth
Kiele: It, you know, if you follow this philosophy and you learn this education, you really start to understand how connected to the earth you actually are. And you start to understand your place. Um, because we are all organisms in this world and on this earth just like everything else. And it goes back to the energy system, that everything is energy, right?
We are energy and we focus on our energy system. And that's not something that Western Medicine talks about. They have no regard to the energy system and they've never even heard of it. But what do we do as human beings? Every day we consume energy and we, cuz we need more energy, right? We need energy to live and survive.
And so if [03:22:00] you focus on your energy system and ask yourself, how am I feeling? What do I need today? Things will really start to shift, and that leads to your senses and becoming a more sensual person, because all five, actually six of your senses, if you include intuition, you use them every day. And they're the one tool that you have to feel extremely grounded and connected to nature.
Because we have five main, um, senses, right? We have our sense of sight, smell, taste, touch, and sound, and all of these things help us feel and be human. Um, and they all do specific things for us. And so it's all really connected, right? Um, it's, it's so fascinating to talk about and learn about and, you know mm-hmm.
Eva: can you like, So in our time, in our remaining time together, I feel like, you know, you talked about how, um, like sensuality and food is a big piece of your work. So can [03:23:00] you maybe speak on that a little bit and what, what does that, what does that even mean be like, Cause I read that and I was like, that sounds cool, but I have no idea what it means.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said earlier, you know, I mean for me, my definition of sensual nourishment is really experiencing life using all of your senses, and it helps you live with gratitude every day. And, um, my methodologies is just to teach exactly that. You know, how all of these senses can help you feel grounded and feel connected to yourself.
Because in this modern world, we're just always so busy doing all the things, you know, I mean, we're like a fast paced train all day long. Like just do, dealing with our to-do list, checking everything off, not taking time to actually ask ourselves how are we doing? What do we need? And if you take the time to focus on your senses every single day, I promise you will feel so much more alive.[03:24:00]
Um, and. And just, I mean better about yourself. And so I think what would help is maybe if I go over the five senses, um, and what they are and what they do. So, um, our first sense is sight. And it is one of the most important senses. Like we use our site every day. Um, and what it actually does, and, you know, instead of just helping us see, is our site actually gives us the ability to like, create things.
If we didn't have our site, we wouldn't be able to like make something or do something. It really gives us the ability to be creative, and that's important because that gives us direction and purpose. , Right. Um, and so a way I like to honor it and if people who are listening would wanna do this, um, I like to do like five senses cleanses.
And so the way I like to honor it is just observe your surroundings a lot more than usual. Like, take the time to, especially in nature, take the time to like look [03:25:00] at something you've never really focused on, like, you know, a bush in near your house or, you know, just something else that you've never taken the time.
And just, just focus on that for like five minutes and see what happens. Um, the next sense is smell. Our senses of smell really influences our moods. So, you know, as if you, when you smell like baked bread, that's a very different smell from if you're like in a New York City subway,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: right? Like just to give a completely gross exam.
Or like, if you walk into a bathroom after someone took like a massive shit and you're like, Whoa, I gotta get out of here. Like
Kyley: were so funny today. We, everywhere we went, my son kept being like, and he wasn't wrong for some reason. We kept being places that smelled bad and he was just like, It does not smell good, mom. And I would just be like, Just don't, you know, Like, I don't wanna ever shame them, but like, stop being so loud about, you know, this place that does not smell good.
Kiele: That's hilarious. Oh my God,
Eva: I never.
Kiele: meet your son.
Eva: I never thought about smelling mood, [03:26:00] but it is true, like when you smell something bad, you're like, like it, like you're like upset.
Kiele: Yeah, you're, you're completely
Eva: like fresh laundry, I'm like, Oh, like, it's just like the, It's uplifting. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kiele: It completely influences your mood like that. It's so insane. And then the deeper level of that, and why that's important is. It heightens your confidence and decision making. So imagine, you know, you go in a bathroom and you're like, Oh, it smells absolutely gross in here. Your decision, you walked out of there right away, right?
It's like instant. But if you are in a place that smells like lavender, You're like, you, you, it actually triggers something in your brain to like, think of good things or like maybe something you wanna accomplish. Like it's just, it completely changes your mood, um, and helps build your confidence and decision making.
It's really crazy. Um, and so what I love to do every day is do like a smell cleanse and just smell [03:27:00] different things that I really enjoy just to kind of ground myself. So I always have, I mean, I have some here, I have like essential oils all the time that I carry with me. Um, if it doesn't smell good, I don't even bother with it.
It's, and I'm very sensitive to smell. Um, touch is really important because it connects us to humanity and to nature and touch makes us feel grounded and very conscious. Also aware of like if something doesn't feel good, like if something's sticky or if you touch something that feels a bit bumpy, it immediately just kind of, um, dictates what you think about this thing.
Right? So it just immediately makes you really conscious. And a good way to nourish that sense, especially when you're cooking, is to, um, touch your food a lot more than usual, like clean fruits and vegetables with your hands. I know a lot of people that don't love to like, touch their food, they get really freaked out by touching their food.
Um, but what that does, if you, you know, [03:28:00] have like a sweet potato, I wish I had one in my hand right now, but
Kyley: note, not my children who eat cereal with their hands like, like wet, soggy cereal with their hands. I'm like, That is disgusting,
Kiele: that's them also experiencing something, you know, I mean, you know, it's like an Indian culture. Everything tastes better with your, and you use your hands. Um, but I, I would say, you know, touch food a lot more, eat with your hands because when you touch it, you
Kyley: So, okay, I'm so sorry. I'm just gonna tell another hilarious kid story. That's what this is all did today. Desi goes, he goes, You know what mom? It's my five year old waffles are a great finger food
Kiele: He's not
Eva: not wrong. Yeah, he's not
Kiele: not wrong.
Kyley: You know what? Yeah, you're right. Anyway, it's
Eva: the texture, like I, Yeah, I like, I feel like that's, there's something intuitive about that actually. Cause like, you just wanna pick that thing up. You don't wanna, I don't wanna cut my waffle. I wanna eat it with my hand.
Kyley: well, and the thing too that's making that, I'm also thinking about like the way I keep bringing [03:29:00] up my kids' stories is like they don't have all of our stupid conditioning of separate being separate from the earth and like embodiment. And so of course I'm thinking of kids' stories in response to these because my kids like, smell something and then they respond to it.
It smells bad here, Mom. Right? As opposed to me who's like, well gotta keep it under wrap. So it smells like, you know,
Kiele: I actually really love how you're bringing up your kids because they do react very differently. They have a visceral reaction to everything and I think it's really cool that they love to touch everything. That's how they experience life. And so for me, you know, when I have kids soon I won't, I thought about this a lot.
Like, Oh, will I get mad if they just like touch their food all the time? I don't think they will. I think teaching proper manners is good too, but there's a fine line cuz I don't wanna take that experience away from them. You know, if they're touching their food and eating their food, like, hey listen, you know, you'll learn a, learn a, how to use a fork and knife like when you're five or something.
[03:30:00] Maybe all the parenting coaches out there may think I'm crazy. But I do believe that touching your food as you eat it is really important.
Kyley: Well, and that's just also just interesting, like kind of, cuz that's always how I've been. Um, and it's only recently, my son is five and a half and it's only recently that I've been like, Okay, actually you're grossing me. Like, like, and it was just totally this internal switch where I went from being like, Hey, do whatever you want to.
Being like, Oh, now I'm actively grossing out by you . And I don't feel that way about my three year olds. And I actually do think it's kind of like a developmental thing where I'm like, like, like some, some, some kind of mom part of my brain has like registered like, Oh actually you are old enough now to handle napkins and like proper silverware and I don't shame my kids.
But like, it's just interesting observing Exactly your point of like, oh no, we're that, we're wrapping up this like wet cereal with your hands face
Kiele: Yeah. It comes a point. It comes a point like let them experience life, but then also
Kyley: But [03:31:00] it wasn't like an intellectual decision. It was like my body was like, Oh no, mom, you're done with this phase. So anyway,
Kiele: Oh my God, that's great. I love it when you bring up your kids' stories.
Kyley: There are many of them.
Kiele: I can't wait to live your life. Um, so then the next one is taste right? And that's like everyone's favorite when it comes to food and. The sense of taste settles our emotions. You know, that's why we taste certain things. Like if you, it just settles your emotions for whatever you're going through.
Simple as that. Like we talked a lot about like comfort food, right? And that those emotions need to be settled. There are even foods and drinks out there that if you wanna feel like more excited or veracious or whatever, more happy, more alive. There are the foods for that, right? That's what fruits do For me.
Fruits make me feel really like excited and you know, that fresh feeling. Um, and it's important because it communicates with our bodies and brings happiness. That's what it does for [03:32:00] us. Um, and so what I love to do and tell people to do is taste your food as you cook. A lot of times people just throw shit in a pot and just let it go and not taste the flavors and see how they blend together.
And then they're like, Oh, this wasn't great. I'm a bad cook. Like immediately. That's what they say. But I think it's best to always have a tasting spoon in your kitchen and by the stove. So as you go every step, taste your food, see what it needs, it starts to listen to your senses. Cause it really will make a difference and then it'll build confidence, right?
Um, and then the last one is sound. And that's super important. So sound soothes and transforms our feelings and it stimulates the vagus nerve, um, and makes us feel safe. This is why it's important. Sound is safety. So think about the sound of like a rolling, gentle boil. and how that sound is so soothing or think about something sizzling and what that does for you.
You know, it's a little bit exciting, like, oh, [03:33:00] something sizzling. Sounds like great. Or like the sound of like sh frying, right? That's really exciting. Um, or, you know, I mean all of these sounds just make a huge difference. And so that can really affect, you know, your experience with food and cooking and your experience in the kitchen.
So sound is super important. So what I like to do is infuse all of this ancient food wisdom mixed with tapping into your senses as you cook, and then mixing that with actual tangible skills. So I teach women how to cook properly. So I teach proper knife skills. I teach little tricks and tips and all the things in your kitchen, and I teach about different concepts like temperature and the energetics of food.
And what really all of that does is connect to our senses and to nature and. What happens is you get rid of the diet culture in your brain and you get rid of the fact that there are right and wrong foods and [03:34:00] that, Oh, I can only, I'm only, I can only do keto or I can only have this, and, you know, I don't, I don't eat dairy because, you know, some magazine told me so, and I think I'm intolerant.
Like, no. What you start to realize is that every food and flavor does something for your body and you, unless you have a serious allergy like peanuts, like that's very different. But you know, you start to understand that there's a purpose for everything. And at the end of, at the end of it all, it's about creating balance and understanding what you are personally going through and how to nourish that within you.
And so it's, it's just so fun and way more scientific than most people think. And uh, to me that is sensu nourishment and that's what I love to teach. And I've just seen. So many women just have serious breakthroughs. And I have at this point with my work, I've helped hundreds of women and they've not only [03:35:00] healed themselves from the inside out when it comes to their emotions and their thoughts and beliefs around food and cooking.
Um, they've also done really great things like healed their P C O S and endometriosis and adenomyosis and, um, fear of cooking even. And, um, anxiety and depression and eating disorders. Uh, I mean, diabetes. It's just been so cool to see them overcome certain things and really start to embody sensuality in their lives and focus more on themselves and how to nourish themselves properly.
And so that's just been really like the magic that, that I've been able to witness and share. So, Hmm.
Eva: I love this. I just, I love it. It's interesting because you can argue that everything is essential experience, you know, like creativity, art, music, and everything is, But I do think that food is a special medium in which it makes sense. Like it really is a sense oriented thing [03:36:00] like, Just on a biological level.
Like I, I've noticed like when people sit down on a table and they're hungry, it's like you fucking dive into that food and you're like, if you're like really hungry, you're like an animal. You become really instinctual and, and, and your sense, all of your sense is like, yeah. Smelling the food, tasting the food, like, you know, touching all of it, like cooking.
And when you're talking about the sizzling, like, I really, it yeah. I could really resonate with that of like, I get excited when I hear something and smell something getting cooked and it, yeah, it brings up, you know, all this stuff. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm inspired actually to, to, um, clarity or love food, but I think, Okay, so actually, so my question is actually bringing it back to the very top, do you have any suggestions for, for people who are like, Yeah, but I'm too, I don't have enough time.
Or like, when you struggle with feeling like, um, it. Because I actually enjoy cooking. And also sometimes I'm like, it's easier not to . And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that or any guidance that you offer to [03:37:00] people who maybe feel like they don't have enough time to cook?
Kiele: I mean, my question to you would be what makes you feel like you don't have enough time?
Eva: Um, I mean, that's a great question. It's more, it's not, it's more of like, I know that I could, uh, spend an out, you know, I go to the grocery store, spend 45 minutes cooking, or I could like order something online and that would be much faster. Do you know what I mean? It's more of like the, the ease. And I will say I'm also spoiled because my partner is a cook, so he does all the cooking.
And so I've just gotten into a habit of just letting him, like do it all and.
Kiele: lucky lady.
Eva: I am very lucky, but, but I also, But I have to say, I also miss it. Cause I think there's something really special about cooking, and I've been noticing that, like, I don't do it anymore because I just default it to my partner,
Kiele: I think the first thing I would say is don't put any pressure on yourself to like feel like, Oh, I need to change and like, cook three meals a day and just stick to that. [03:38:00] No, because you'll burn out. Um, if you are the type, well, first of all, it, it stems down to the experience you want because getting takeout and going out to a restaurant is a very different experience from cooking at home.
And I think both have its time and place and they're both good. My, what I like to talk about is really your experience with the food. If you're just the type that's very mindless with food and you just. Eat really quickly. I would work on your connection with food in general, because my rule of thumb is I don't care if you're sitting down eating a McDonald's burger or you're having like a home cooked meal.
What matters is how you feel about that food. If you sit down to eat with feelings of guilt or shame or fear or worry that, Oh my God, this is gonna make me fat, or whatever your worries are, you're gonna have a hard time digesting, You know, your body's not gonna respond well to it, and it's gonna become a pattern.
And so it's better to just resolve to the fact that you're having a good time and [03:39:00] enjoy
Eva: Yeah. And enjoy it. Like,
Kiele: and, and, and digest. Yeah. And then you'll have feelings, you know, your digestion will be a lot better. Um, I don't, don't care what you're eating, just know that. But at the same time, I do think it is better to have like whole real food, right?
I'm not saying go out and eat a McDonald's burger all day every day, but just note how you're feeling about that experience. And I think for you, Um, I think once in a while, tap into the feelings that you experience when you cook. Do once a week, you know, one day a week,
Eva: what you said already was just really simple and helpful cuz it made me realize like, Oh, I'm comp, I'm comp, I'm, I'm conflating and, um, making takeout the same as cooking. And what you pointed out for me is like, wait, I have to remember they're not, they're two totally different experiences and I'm noticing, I'm craving the experience of cooking.
Like, I like connecting with my food. So I like touching food. I like washing my, like, I like all the things that you have said. And even this conversation has made me realize that. And so it really is as simple as realizing, wait, I can't order food, but [03:40:00] it's not gonna give me the satisfaction of the thing that I'm really craving, which is like a moment of like putting on some music and like fondling my lettuce
Kiele: Yep. Not looking at the clock. I think also not looking at the clock really helps because a lot of people are like, Oh, this needs to take 45 minutes. And I get it. If you have kids and there's like bedtime and all of that. But if you have a partner, create an experience for yourself and just say, This is my night to do this and I'm just going to enjoy it and make something you really love and enjoy it
Eva: I love that.
Kiele: and then wash your dishes really, essentially
Eva: already. Super helpful. I
Kiele: Great. Awesome.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: Um, what else should we talk about? So many things we've covered.
Kyley: Oh my gosh. I know I could, uh, I just also feel there's a couple, I mean there's actually a lot that's come up for me in this conversation. The dishes thing really, really feels big, uh, that I guarantee you a [03:41:00] month from now, my joy is gonna be like, guess what guys? Turns out I figured out dishes because of Kelly.
Um, uh, but I'm also in this moment thinking about like based on your, what you just shared with Eva is like, yeah, I do a lot of food prep for my kids and you know, and I managed to be, get myself something in the process and I'm now in this moment thinking like, how can I make it more delicious? Like, of an experience?
Like how can I make it more like sensual and, and playful when I'm making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as opposed to like, cuz it is a thing that I have to do. You know, most days I'm the breakfast and lunch person and so like, can I. Just like make that a richer experience as a way of actually nourishing myself more instead of, um, uh, instead of like a thing.
I have to check
Eva: And sort of like a chore. Yeah.
Kiele: you, do you have them come in and help you in the kitchen? I know they're
Kyley: son is [03:42:00] so cute. He's so, he's the five year old and he's like really into making his own food, like as of like a month ago. And so , he was so funny, He was so proud of Look at my Sandwich Mom. And the bread is like in like 17 different pieces, like a total shit.
And I was like, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. I mean, my house is never clean, so I don't care about them making a mess, you know? Um, so yeah,
Eva: think that's so important though, cuz
Kiele: think so too.
Eva: I know, I don't know, I just know people who never got the chance to be in the kitchen when they were kids, and then they're like totally disconnected from that whole experience. And that's up.
Kiele: Yeah, and they, I, I know them as adults and they don't feel, uh, competent. Um, they don't have a lot of confidence and they don't know what to do. A lot of those people are my clients, and so it's really interesting that
Eva: that impacts your entire life, because food is something that you do every fucking day, multiple times a day, unless you're fucking, you know, whatever, doing. What's the thing where you inter fasting,
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, I think that, you know, bringing them into the kitchen and [03:43:00] asking more them, more, like letting them taste the only, the peanut butter and only the jelly, and saying like, Oh, how does this taste alone? And seeing what they say and what they experience, and then how does the jelly taste alone?
Kyley: I mean, you're totally right as a mom, as like a, like giving your kids the fun experience, but I'm actually thinking about like,
Eva: You're,
Kyley: booting them, but like, like really letting it be for me, right? Cause like, I bake with them all the time and like, they cook dinner, My husband like, brings 'em into the kitchen for cooking dinner.
So they're pretty integrated into that. But I'm actually thinking of like, for me, how can I let it be like, like,
Eva: Yeah. You taste the jelly. You taste the peanut butter
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Kyley: Um, and uh, and that feels actually really, really fun, which may ultimately include them, but there's actually like a particular thing that I'm envisioning of like, Oh yeah, can I just let this be something that I slow the fuck down about and like, enjoy [03:44:00] slicing the strawberries into a million pieces for them instead of just like, you know.
Eva: Instead of like chop chopping or.
Kiele: of just, Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say this is a tough one because I'm not a mom yet and I can't wait to explore all of these things. Um, but I would say, um, wow, this is tough. What I would do is just be more creative, um, with like the way I cut things and um, like do fun things like. Cut the strawberries in just a different kind of way.
Or maybe even like top them with, I don't know, whipped cream or something. I'm making it
Kyley: But I'm
Kiele: you probably already do that
Kyley: Well, I mean, I'm, I, I'm also even just thinking of like, honestly of everything you shared about like the, like the five senses. Right. And I'm actually like just seeing like the exact same sandwich and the exact same strawberries, but just showing up for it. Right. As [03:45:00] opposed to just like this kind of mindless, I have to get through it.
Eva: Having that sensual experience,
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: just slowing, slowing myself down and being present for making them lunch as a way of allowing it to be a nourishing experience, which then probably does make space to be playful and creative cuz it's not a should. It's a like, like,
Kiele: it's not a should, it's, it's more of like, what are you experiencing in this moment? Like how are these strawberries looking? Right? Um, What is this? What, how is this jam going down, like on the, on the bread, Like just making it like a bit richer and just
Kyley: exactly. Just the
Kiele: rather than just slapping it on?
Um, there's a big difference between, Oh, I'll give you a great example. Um, my ex-husband's sister, so I guess effectively my ex sister-in-law, um, was really good at this where he described there's an eight, eight and a half year age difference between the two of them. And so she [03:46:00] kind of like raised him in some way, but when he was a little kid, he always described the way that she put jam on bread and she would like very gingerly do it and like the knife down properly and like spread it all the way to the ends of the, of the bread and like make it all even.
And in my mind I'm like, Whoa, she really thought about that because I used to just like slap it on and not care. You know, and she, he was like, Oh, I just really loved the way she would do that. And he remembers that as like a three year
Kyley: Yeah,
Kiele: And so that type of thing is what I'm talking about. And I think maybe what you're alluding to
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: what you want, just like,
Eva: Yeah,
Kiele: savoring the moment a bit more rather than making it into a chore and just shifting your perspective a bit.
Um, so just spread that jam on, you know,
Eva: that's gonna be your motto. Spread that jam baby
Kyley: of all of you when I am
Eva: when you're spreading that
Kyley: spreading the jam,
Kiele: I love [03:47:00] it. I love it so much. It's so great.
Eva: Okay.
Kyley: this has been the best.
Kiele: been really fun,
Eva: has been great. . Um, I think it's time for joy.
Kyley: Yeah. Should we do a round of joy?
Eva: Yeah. Let's do it. Um, do you want, do you wanna
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: Sorry.
Kyley: Okay. What's something that's bringing you joy right now?
Kiele: Um hmm. The possibility is of making a family that's bringing me major joy. Um, yeah. Big time. I'm ready
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: That's
Kiele: here for it.
Eva: Yay. That's
Kyley: Ugh.
Kiele: Big? What, what about you?
Kyley: Um, so my friend, uh, the other day just pointed out it was, it was Liz listeners. No, Liz. Um, she was like, I just love your summer. Every time I talk to you, you're like going on a new adventure. And that really does feel like this summer has been [03:48:00] like, I went to the, I like, What, what?
Just like going and being in adventure mode with my kids is so much fun. Like that is like the way that I feel like that, like that is like a way in which I shine as a mom is like, get in the car. Like to the food piece, I'll like literally like throw the loaf of bread and the peanut butter and jelly in a bag and just be like, just get, get out the door as quick as possible.
I'll make us lunch when we get there. I don't even know where we're going. And, um, and we've been going to the beach and the playground and we've just been like, on the go. And with Covid, that wasn't always an option with cold weather, that isn't always an option. And I fucking love summer. I love being on the water.
Like yesterday we were at this, we went to this pond that I'd never been to before, and we were there from like, uh, like nine 30 in the morning until four in the afternoon. And, uh, everyone, like I saw Birdie today had like the little, like, you know, when you, she's got her little tan [03:49:00] lines from her little bathing suit and I just feel like, okay, yeah, we're nailing like we're nailing summer this summer.
And uh, it feels like, it just feels really delicious. So
Kiele: Oh, that's fantastic.
Eva: love that. You know, I love suck. Who do I, Yeah, I think you were saying, you were saying, Kay, that like everyone loves summer. I do think some people don't love Summer, and so I try to be sensitive towards that because I'm a summer freak and I don't wanna like rub it in people's noses, but I fucking love summer
Kiele: I fucking love summer.
Eva: it's just like where I thrive, so, And I could feel that vibe from you Kylie, as you're talking.
Kyley: And I feel like sometimes at the end of summer, cuz I also, you know, summer person, sometimes at the end of the summer, I feel like there's can be this moment of like, grief that's like, Oh, did I, did I do it right? Did I do it enough? Did I, like, you know, this moment of like, I should have played more dumb.
And I, this feels like a summer, like it's still June and already we're like, we're fucking doing summer. And I, I feel really good about, I feel really good about my odds [03:50:00] of remorse being limited.
Eva: Love it. Cool. That
Kyley: about you?
Eva: Okay, so mine's also somewhat summer related. I want to give a shout out to my joy of, of Hammocks Haven. I talked about hammocks, yet, I think I've talked about it last year. I will probably always come back once a year to talk about my joy of hammocks because I just, I don't know what the fuck I was doing with my life before I had a hammock, like
I like being in a hammock is truly just the best feeling. Like I love the feeling of being cocooned in something and rocking and looking up at the trees in the sky, and it's such a summer thing. And, um, so now we have two hammocks in our house, and so I'm just like, I think I've
Kiele: I was just gonna ask that. I was just gonna ask you have a hammock in your bedroom.
Eva: no, I don't have, I thought about putting one actually here in my, in my attic space, but I like being like kind of outside and so, um, but, but I'm not, you know, who knows? That could happen. [03:51:00] It was more also that, um, this is a bit of like a detailed rant, but like, when I think about women on their period and on their bleed, I have this vision of like, what I want, which is like, I really wanna be like eating grapes, like off the vine, being fanned, like Greek goddess style, naked in a garden with other women.
Like that's how I think the period should be. And so I was on my period and like in fetal physician in this like hammock and eating cherries that were growing off of my tree. And my partner came out, he's like, You look like a painting right now. Just like, And I was like, Yes. Like that is what I'm fucking going for.
Like, I, I manifested that because that's how I think it should be one on a period. Just if you, if you are not spending time in a hammock, I just highly recommend that you go and, Cause you can get one. I recommend Cammock. It's a brand. It's like that kind, like you can like pack it and just bring it to the park.
You don't need to like, have all the tools to like put it up. You just need two trees, some type of sturdy thing. If you can't [03:52:00] do it at home, you can like bring it out into nature. It's the shit.
Kiele: I'm all about the hammocks. Um, and I love, I was just envisioning you like on your bleed in a hammock eating cherries. Also, I wanna mention just from like a, you know, five element Chinese medicine perspective, cherries are one of the best things you can have during your period. Be. Yep. Because if you think about cherries, what are they?
They're red food and red foods and they're, if you think about like the cherry juice, it's really
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kind of bloody. And so it's nourishing for your blood. And as women, we lose blood every month and we have to regenerate that blood every month. So things like cherries, beets,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kinds of other berries, um, even red.
Eva: red bean every
Kiele: Red bean is very good. Red meat is very good when you have your bleed. So all of these things are really good for your period. So when you said cherries, I was like, See, it's natural. You know these things and you're doing them [03:53:00] already, so it's just you're already connected in a way. What I love to educate on is, is the why and how, and so it's just so fun.
So,
Eva: Well, why don't you tell our audience our awesome be of audience? Well, how they can find you and how they can work with you.
Kiele: Oh my God, I loved being here and, um, I, I just love podcasts and thank you so much for listening everyone. Um, you can find me on my website. It's www.keylejl.com, so k i e l e j a e l.com. Browse the website. I have two awesome online courses. I have a mini course that's called the Intro to Sensual Cooking 1 0 1, and it's like, A very simple 21 day mini course if you wanna do one lesson a day or just binge on it.
Um, it's super fun. And then I have my full course, The Art of Sensual Cooking, and that has six modules in it. It's really rich. I basically dive into all of this and teach everything I know in this one [03:54:00] course. And if you wanna just book a call with me, I give free consultations. I love talking to people.
So just go on my website, click I think contact, and uh, fill out my form and we will chat. Mm-hmm. hang out. So thank you so much for having me and
Eva: you. This is really awesome.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And we're out
Kiele: Wow.
Eva: Hi.
Kyley: No,
Kiele: [03:55:00] Hi.
Kyley: how are you?
Kiele: I'm great ladies. How are you?
Kyley: Oh God, that's wonderful. Sorry,
Eva: to meet you. Kellye, right? Is it
Kiele: Keelie, You said it perfectly
Kyley: but I've Say it again so I don't screw it up.
Kiele: now. It's all good. Key. Ellie like a
Kyley: Really. Oh, that's beautiful.
Kiele: Oh, thank you. It's um, Hawaiian.
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: just, But what about the hyphenated part? Do you go by your, Is there full
Kiele: you know j l yeah. Like j l for my business I do, but most people, when they get to know me, it's just Kee.
Eva: I mean, do you have a preference? We're happy. Whatever makes you happy.
Kiele: Um, Kee is good if you, um, if you're talking about my company, then Kee j l Wellness, But if it's just me, then Kee.
Eva: Okay, cool. Cool, cool,
Kiele: all good.
Eva: Well welcome to the show.
Kiele: Thank you. Can you hear me okay?
Kyley: Ken?
Eva: Yeah, I'm trying to set up my mic so we'll see if you guys can hear me okay on [03:56:00] you guys hear this?
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: Okay, cool. Then we're good to go.
Kyley: Do the same thing.
Eva: Um, I'm good. I'm snacking and I'm freshly showered, which is always nice.
Kiele: Oh, that's good. She just loved being freshly showered.
Eva: I love, I, you know. Yeah. I love being fresh that you showered. It doesn't have not option enough as often as it should, if I'm being totally honest.
Kyley: Oh, I'm the same way. Although the shower, I'm a mom of two small kids, so the shower is my like, uh, goat. It's like, where do I go when I'm stressed? I mean, even before kids, but now like, especially so , sometimes I just take like two showers, three showers in a day, and then
Kiele: know what?
Kyley: like five days go by. It just really, it's really about my mood more than my cleanliness.
Kiele: how? How old are your kids?
Kyley: Um, I have a three year old and a five year old.
Kiele: Mm. What great ages.
Kyley: there's,
Kiele: Great ages.
Kyley: they are a ridiculous amount of fun and um,
Eva: I'm super cute.[03:57:00]
Kyley: Yeah. I'm biased, but they're
Eva: They're pretty dang cute.
Kiele: That's so awesome.
Kyley: call my daughter, my three year old, my best girl, and the other day she climbed into bed in the morning and she goes, Good morning.
Best mama.
Eva: Aw.
Kiele: Oh my god.
Eva: I gotta just melt your heart.
Kiele: Uh, do you have kids? Eva? Is it Ava or Eva?
Eva: Oh, thanks for asking. It's Eva and No, No kids. It's a topic of conversation on this podcast,
Kiele: Yeah, I just got done, you know, on a private note, I just got done with, uh, being in Mexico for two months doing IVF down there
Eva: Oh wow.
Kiele: and uh, it was great.
Kyley: Oh, great. Yeah, yeah. I have a friend who went there for, um, for stem cell. Um, she has ms, and so they have like this really incredible, uh, stem cell treatment for ms. So,
Kiele: that's fantastic.
Kyley: yeah. How was your, Was would, it was a good experience
Kiele: thought it was a great experience. Um, I mean, I live in Austin, Texas and if ever I need surgery or anything, I'm going to Mexico. The healthcare there is fantastic. The [03:58:00] doctors are also good looking, right? Like all of them, um, nurses, doctors, all of them, doesn't matter. They're all super good looking and the thing I loved about being in Mexico versus here, Is that they are really a service-oriented, hospitality oriented kind of country, and that applies to their medical care.
Like they, they just wanna do the best job. And that's what I think is great. Not like here. A lot of it has to do with what their doctors, um, what they're, what they're able to do when it comes to liability or, you know, um, even just, I mean, there's so many complications and so I,
Eva: insurance allows, or what
Kiele: Yeah.
What insurance Exactly. And it's, uh, it's just a crock of crap. So, um, so just, no, Mexico is pretty dang great.
Kyley: yeah, yeah.
Eva: to know. That's really good to know.
Kyley: totally Katie's experience and people like kind of gave her side eye that was like sort of like, Oh, you're gonna go to [03:59:00] Max. Like, it was like this, like, you know, weird thing that she was doing, and she was just like, You all have no idea what you're talking about. This is like America wishes that.
Kiele: I know. Yeah. It, I, I felt that way too. And um, if someone would've told me a year ago that I was gonna go to Mexico to do, first of all, to do ivf and then secondly to go to Mexico to do ivf, I'm like, Oh, you're crazy. And now I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. So I got home like a week ago.
Kyley: Oh, wow.
Kiele: of them.
Eva: Yeah, that's quite, I'm You say you've just been on an journey and an adventure
Kiele: yeah, yeah. So I have two embryos now, and I can't wait to get them put in and I'm probably gonna put both of them in and have twins.
Eva: Well that's
Kiele: likely
Kyley: I wanna cry. Mm.
Kiele: It's so fun.
Eva: I mean, honestly, I might have to pick your brain if I end up going down that route cuz So things something that we talk about all the time. It's like, I'm, so, I'm 38, I still don't know if I wanna have kids and if I decide that I do, I may have to go that route. So, um, I may pick her brain one day if I
Kiele: Yeah, totally. [04:00:00] I'm really open to talking about it. I'm, I'll be 41 in December and so for me it was sort of like the good thing to do. Um, I met my now husband, I, I've been through a previous marriage for 16 years. Um, never wanted to have kids with him. He didn't wanna be a dad, left him, got divorced, moved to Austin.
Two weeks later, find my current husband and I got married at 39 pretty much right when I turned 39 a year of trying, naturally had one chemical pregnancy and we were like, Okay, it's kind of now or never cuz he's like, I don't wanna be 50 and like have a newborn
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Um, so we did that for a year and then decided on IVF and just looked at the options and met with doctors here in Austin that we just weren't feeling it.
And then found this clinic in Mexico and, uh, talked to them and felt great and, um, yeah, definitely pick my brain if you want. It's, uh, it's, it was a great experience and I find that a lot more women are having to do this and go this route.
Eva: Yeah. I just appreciate you being so open about it. [04:01:00] And Mar, I already need to wanna ask all the questions, but Kylie and I, we know like, so we tend to get going already before we even like officially start. So I kind of wanna like pump the breaks a little bit before we, um, before we jump in. Cause I can tell this is already gonna be a great conversation.
Kyley: just thinking that. I was like, Oh my God. Like we're all best friends already. These are
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: conversations.
Kiele: I'm, I'm very much an open book, so, you know, sometimes I have to reel it in with what I say cause I don't want people to get misconstrued by what I say. So, um, yeah,
Kyley: We are also very open book and very informal here, so, uh, no realing necessary unless you'd like to, which is actually a question I wanted to ask. Um, is this a topic you'd prefer to keep off the show, your ivf, or are you happy to? Okay.
Kiele: I'm happy to talk about it. I'm even happy to talk about how I prepared for it. Um, I mean, whatever you wanna ask, I'm open to sharing if it's relevant to the conversation and, um, yeah, I'm very open to talking about it.
Kyley: cool. Yeah, we never know where we'll go, [04:02:00] but I did wanna, like, confirm beforehand just because I know some people have different, you
Kiele: Yeah, I did have a question. Um, I noticed that the time blockage is two hours. Is it gonna be the full two hours you think?
Kyley: we, we, we often block for two hours. Um, because if we're really, if we really get going, like if the conversation's really flowing, we do, we do have to have longer episodes. Um, I think the actual interview usually lasts about an hour. But also if you have a cutoff time, we're more than happy to honor that.
Kiele: I don't really, I just wasn't sure.
Kyley: Yeah, we tend to, we, we do have long episodes cuz we really
Eva: Yeah, our, our episodes are very like long form, windy, we'll be going like it's not very much as much as an interview as it mu as it is just like us connecting and Yeah, going with the flow.
Kyley: And also we interviewed someone on Monday and she was like, I have 60 minutes max for you. And we had a great conversation and the interview was like 45 minutes. So whatever people need, we, we can do. Yeah.
Eva: would even say, yeah, so [04:03:00] I actually do have a hard cutoff today. So this is more for Kylie, so seven 30. So that does give us the 2 7 38 at latest. So that does give us the two full hours. And then Kylie and I, if we need to connect af you know, afterwards we can, but, um, but yeah, and
Kiele: are you? Both.
Kyley: Um, I live outside Boston.
Kiele: Oh,
Eva: And I'm in Portland
Kiele: Oh, so wow. Polar opposite. Okay.
Kyley: sometimes Eva's in Taiwan and then it's actually like a literal 12 hour difference.
Kiele: yeah, yeah. No, that's, uh,
Eva: that is true.
Kyley: Yeah. So this, we're closer this way.
Kiele: Got it.
Eva: Yeah. Um, I'm like so excited to jump in. Okay. Wait, hold, Let me think of all the logistical things. Um, you can, we're very casual open. You can curse, um,
Kyley: I definitely will curse
Eva: we will, We will curse.
Kiele: I'll probably curse too. It's my favorite thing.
Eva: Yep. Yep. Um, if there is, like, we do have an editor, so if at any point you wanna like, take a long pause, if you need to go to the bathroom, [04:04:00] if you need to like, retract something or like say something over again, we can definitely do that.
We'll clean, we'll clean it up. Um, and, you know, the first question of the show and the last question just to
Kiele: I think, so the first question is like, what's something life is teaching you right now? What lesson And then the last one it's, is about joy.
Eva: Joy. Yeah. And that's like a round, So the three of us will go for that.
Kiele: Yeah. Okay. My, I mean, my first answer has everything to do with IVF and having a kid. So I mean, both are like, that's my world right now, so, um, yeah, it's crazy.
Eva: Okay, cool. Uh, did I forget anything? Kylie?
Kyley: Oh, we'll do a formal intro for you later, so we just jump right in. We'll just say your name and, and, and go and we'll, we'll do the, the fancy part later.
Eva: Cool.
Kyley: All right. You wanna bring her
Eva: Yeah. Uh, so any more questions though before we start?
Kiele: Yeah.
Eva: Okay, cool. All right. Um, right. Hi Kaylie. Welcome to Hell Universe. Thanks so much for joining us.
Kiele: Hi. Thank you for having me.[04:05:00]
Eva: Uh, as you know, our first question for all of our guests is, what is something that life is teaching you right now?
Kiele: Uh, can I say one or two things?
Eva: You can say all the
Kiele: two things.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Um, there are two things that life is teaching me right now. One is to have extreme patience. Um, another one is to create boundaries more than ever of what I take into my life. And I actually have a third is to have no expectations of how anything will happen, and just know that life is good no matter.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: those three again cuz I feel like they just should be the rules for living
Kiele: So the first one is to have extreme patience. Um, I've had to have a lot of patience with what I've been going through lately. Big things, big changes. The second thing is to create major boundaries around what I take in in my life. And that includes information, [04:06:00] people, food, like everything. Mostly things that have to do with my emotions.
And then, uh, the third would be have no expectations at all. So I don't get disappointed with anything. And, uh, know that no matter what, life is great. Life is grand. I'm really happy to be alive,
Eva: Hmm.
Kiele: And that's pretty much.
Eva: So we've had we, cuz we had a little bit of conversation off the record before we started recording and so I was wondering if you could maybe share with the audience what you shared with us, because knowing the, so Kylie and I have context for what is going on in your life to teach this. And I think it'd be really interesting for our listeners to know also I through what means you're, you're learning these lessons,
Kiele: Yeah, no problem. Um, I'd love to share this. I had just spent two months in Cancun, Mexico doing three rounds of IVF treatments, and I had a fibroid [04:07:00] removal surgery while I was there, and it was. An incredible experience. Um, some people in my life were very weary of the fact that I was going to Mexico because I live in the States.
I live in Austin, Texas. And for me it was an opportunity for my husband and I to have a vacation. Um, we both work for ourselves. We're in the same time zone as Texas, so it was easy for us to just continue about our day. And also the healthcare in Mexico, at least in Cancun, at my specific clinic, has been fantastic and it's not what people think.
And we actually signed up for two rounds, but ended up doing three. Um, and that's where what I was talking about with the patients and no expectations and, um, really being strict about creating boundaries. And it had a lot to do with just what has happened, um, with those three rounds of ivf. And, uh, but overall it was a really fantastic [04:08:00] experience.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, and I have two embryos out of everything, out of all of it. And so I'm really thrilled because I'll be 41 this year and I know for women over 40 it can be difficult to conceive naturally. And also, um, a lot of women have fertility problems and you don't even have to be over 40. You could be 20 and have fertility problems.
So it's a big issue right now, uh, with, uh, with women and women's health.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, I'm thrilled to hear about this because IVF may be in my future and I actually, to be honest, never considered, just didn't have the awareness of Mexico being an option and the healthcare system in America is fucking disaster . So like, I'm like, this sounds really appealing. And also, you know, I like that you're coming on here to share the possibility with other people who also may need this as an option.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to share. And you know, just so your [04:09:00] listeners know, I'm very much one to do all of my research and I'm very strict about what I get myself into. And I would, I err on the side of cautiousness, but at the same time, I am one to be very impulsive. And if I feel intuitively that something is right, I just go for it.
And this was one of those things that I went for. Um, and I decided to go to this specific clinic in Cancun because when we did, uh, a telemedicine, uh, video call with the doctor really had a good feeling about him. And then not only that, one of my best friends that I grew up with, who's an anesthesiologist, um, she has a colleague who's also an anesthesiologist.
Him and his husband went to this clinic to have their surrogate, um, or to do surrogacy and have their baby. And so he vetted for this clinic. And if it's good enough for an anesthesiologist outta San Francisco, it's good enough for me. So, and he had the same issues with just the [04:10:00] healthcare system, even though he is an anesthesiologist, he was just, I guess like it's just really expensive and why not go somewhere else where the healthcare is just as good, if not better.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: So,
Eva: Um, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you, you know, you, you talk about this experience, um, I can just tell that it felt, it seems like almost maybe transformational or very nourishing in some ways. So I was wondering if you could talk about what made the experience so wonderful.
Kiele: Well, like I said earlier, for us it was really important to be. In a place where we felt like we were on vacation. So it was really nice to be by the water.
Eva: Mm.
Kiele: and it was really nice to be out of our home. And that's something I wasn't sure how I would feel if I don't, I didn't know if I would wanna be in the comfort of my own home or be somewhere else in a foreign country.
Um, but it ended up being a great [04:11:00] choice because, you know, it was, everything was so smooth and I felt every day, like I could really relax. I mean, I'm in
Eva: I think that's okay. So I just wanna punctuate that because I know people who've gone through IVF and it's stressful. Like that pressure and just, just all of it. And I think,
Kyley: And the whole idea that like, oh, you just need to relax and like with the, the pressure to relax, which only makes it harder, right? That's like if I don't relax properly, then this won't work and so I really can't fucking relax. Like that is excruciating
Kiele: Yes, Yes. And, and sometimes you think you're relaxed and you're not,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: and you know what, what I was afraid of was being in a relaxing environment and not being able to relax.
Eva: right. Right.
Kiele: yeah, I, I'm also in a position where I could go for. Two months and just be there. And I'm also in a position where I don't have to work for two months if I don't want to.
And I know a lot of [04:12:00] people don't have that luxury. However, I will say that if you do work for yourself and you have the ability to take off, and you're in this position where you are thinking about having a baby and want to go through ivf, it is worth it to go because the cost of IVF treatments there are way less expensive than here.
Granted, you pay out of pocket there, but still if you compare apples to apples, it is way less expensive. Another thing that I really loved that would made it way less stressful was the fact that everything is included. All of the ultrasound appointments that's included, and in the states, it's not included.
And some of the appointments can be anywhere from $200 to 800. Per appointment and you're going every other day. Right. Another thing that's included when you go to Mexico is the, uh, medication. And in the states it can be anywhere on average of 3000 to $500 per, per [04:13:00] round.
Eva: Wow. Wow.
Kiele: you know, in, in Mexico it's very, it's way less expensive.
Um, like I said earlier, I just believe that the culture really has to do with what you experience there. I mean, everyone is so service-oriented and hospitable and really nice and that really translates over to the care, I believe. And when I was at the clinic, I mean, I saw foreigners every time I was there from Europe, different countries in Europe, from the states, locals in Mexico, um, I mean, all over the place.
I've met three women from San Francisco, you know, so it's a, it was a really cool to see other women, um, Coming to the clinic and experience this and, and having a good, uh, yeah, having a good time. So,
Kyley: breaking news. Other countries have better reproductive health than the
Kiele: yep. Breaking news. We actually looked at Greece initially, to be honest. Um, but with the time difference, it was just too much because they were [04:14:00] about 10 hours ahead of us and we just couldn't swing it. We also looked at wow, Sweden. But again, same thing, time difference. And my husband was so funny, he cracked a joke.
He's like, If only Cuba was open, um, which it wasn't. He's not wrong, but I would be kind of fearful for the, their updated equipment. Um, but you know, that's not happening.
Eva: you know, so, okay, so we had a guest, Nike on the show a couple weeks ago, and she talked about like, I can't get this Ever since she said it, I can't get outta my head. She was like, we talk about other countries as quote unquote Third World, and there's this connotation of like, Oh, America's more developed and better and these other places are somehow more poverty stricken.
And we have these ideas of like how they are. with everything and all of our rights being stripped away, like all of this, I, you know, it really feels like Handmaid's tale. Like, and we're becoming third world. Like I really, my, my
Kyley: Nike's work phrase is just, we are a third world country. Like, you know, in terms of, uh,
Eva: And I, [04:15:00] when I, I see that like, there's, so the, the, the houseless population in Portland is fucking insane.
And I just like, who are we to stick our noses up at like, other country thinking that we're better when, like, there's other countries are doing so many things, right? And America is just, as we all know, I don't, you know, I, Yeah. Lots
Kiele: doing it a bit wrong lately. Um, you know, we used to be, The greatest country we used to be. And things have just gone real sour. It's so funny that you mention about other countries cuz my, my virtual assistant is in Zimbabwe and I tell her about the healthcare here and she is just floored.
She's like, I can't believe that, you
Eva: Same in Taiwan. And when I, my cousin, when I tell her about like mass shootings, she's like, cannot comprehend. And she literally said, she was like, If that, if I lived where that was happening, I couldn't live my life. Like that's what she said. Cuz that's, how do you explain that to people and like that children are [04:16:00] dying And she's like, I don't understand how that exists.
It's, You shouldn't be able to understand that, you know?
Kiele: Yeah. I agree. Last week was really, um, eye opening because, you know, the gun rights laws, um, got passed in a way. Yeah. And then, uh, that the same, on the same day. Women's rights were taken away. So it's just like a weird place we're in. Um, I just, I don't wanna get too far in the negative of it because the, I can really go down that rabbit hole I'm sure a lot of us can.
Um, which is why I just, I just live my life every day to the fullest and just try to be as happy as possible because we're only here once. Right. Um, but it is, going back to what you were saying, it is really scary here and a lot of other countries are, they just, they're doing it right. And, um, most people think of Mexico like, Oh, Super third world, but they're not, They're so not, it's not even like that.
It's, that's, that's [04:17:00] laughable.
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And I will say though, cuz we actually, you know, we're, we have you here to talk about other things and so I definitely wanna make sure that we focus on that. But I will say for anyone who does feel like, you know, you're go spiraling and we can, and it gets dark. We actually just had a wonderful conversation.
Uh, so last week's podcast, um, with uh, Okay. Do you remember her name?
Kyley: Jennifer, please edit this out while we look up her name. So we aren't really truly the worst. Hos hosts
Eva: Oh my god, I feel awful
Kiele: No, you guys do this all the
Eva: it was like such a great conversation. Hold on.
Kyley: Um, yeah, I couldn't remember her last name. Um,
Kiele: over
Kyley: Okay.
Eva: Yeah, do over. Okay. Uh, Jennifer, we're gonna, we're gonna pick up again. Um, Oh yeah. So, but if you are feeling like, you know, maybe it's overwhelming and the news is like, you know, you can spiral down the, down into the hole.
I just wanna recommend that you guys all check out our last week's episode with Marissa because it was such a great, short and sweet [04:18:00] actually, um, support for both. Yeah. Nourishing, I think about, about all of this stuff. Yeah. So we have that
Kyley: So you're off the hook from having to solve our emotional distress. Kelly
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Oh my gosh.
Kyley: I will actually say, when your name came across our inbox, I got so excited because obviously like our, you know, our show's about spirituality and, you know, the kind of journey of dropping deeper into ourselves and, um, all transparency food is just a complicated place for me personally, and I know for a lot of us.
And so, um, yeah, it is with entirely selfish reasons that I'm just really excited to learn more about, um, the, the space that you hold. Because immediately upon like reading more about your work, it was clear to me that you're holding space in a different way, right? That's not about this, like, you know, Diet culture or, you know, fix it oriented mindset around food.
And I think, again, just speaking [04:19:00] of my own personal history, I have, it has often felt unavailable for me to engage with that kind of like diet culture stuff. And also I have for a long time wanted a different relationship with food, right? I've wanted it to feel more like nourishing and easeful. And it has felt like, okay, there's, there is a, there is a good solution out there, but I don't know what it is.
Um, and so, so I'm just really thrilled to have you here and, and, and, yeah, speaking from your wisdom,
Eva: Yeah, and, and bef, I'm gonna jump in real quick slide in here. To add to that, I also really love this idea of food connected to sensuality because it's something that I think I've. often thought of, but don't think I have the language or the experience for, and I think you're the person, perfect person to come on here and maybe shed some sh shed some light on that connection.
Kiele: very excited about this conversation and I, um, thank you for, for, for sharing all of that. And, uh, yeah, I'm excited to shift to your thought process on food and [04:20:00] not just food cooking. You know, really a lot of what I talk about is how to prepare your food and how to connect to your food and, um, it's a skill that a lot of people look at as a pain in the ass and they don't have time.
And what they're really saying is they don't have time to nourish themselves and they don't have time to. Feed themselves good food to gain energy and feel satiated and feel good about themselves. And, um, that's really where I start the shift with the people that work with me. So I love this topic. I could talk about it all day.
It lights me on fire. It's really
Eva: Well, I know when I think that I don't have time to cook, really what that is, what's happening in those moments is I feel disconnected from food. And I think, and I I I, I have the experience of both of being really connected with food in like a, in a beautiful way in like this. It does feel spiritual.
[04:21:00] Um, and also then getting really busy or caught up in other things. And really, when I say I don't have time, yeah, it just feels like I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting actually that there's something joyful about, about our connection to food if we have the space and, and, and the resources and, and all that stuff.
So, yeah.
Kyley: And just to, uh, add on that too, one of the big things that I've observed is for years I've been the kind of person that's like, um, like, oh, I don't, like, I don't, I don't enjoy the day to day cooking, Right. I'm a like, I'll cook on Sunday. I use every dish in the house and then I won't cook again for the rest of the week.
Right. But, um, but often have felt like, Oh, it's just annoying. I don't know. I'll just eat cereal. Right? Like, I'm kind of famous for like, just, I'll just have toast. I'll just have cereal because it's just too much work. I'll eat, I eat a lot, you know, a lot of
Kiele: We all, we all go through that. I go through that. I'm not saying that that's gonna disappear, but what I'm saying is that, you know, there are other ways to enjoy even that [04:22:00] process.
Kyley: and what was fascinating to me and like a really big light bulb moment was once my kids were born, and I made all the time in the world like, Oh, my daughter will, my, like, she needs all, she needs the crus cut off my, my son wants this food. My daughter, Oops. You don't want the oranges. I just cut off like, Right.
Like I will, I will my, my, my, you know. Oh are you, I I I watch their emotions as it relates to when they might be hungry. I like really make ti time to, oh, we're leaving the house. Has everybody had fruit for the day? Right. Like I put so much energy and attention and it really made me realize how much it wasn't that, uh, and isn't that food is complicated or too much, it's that, uh, like my kids' needs are fine.
Right. It really was, is very clear to me that it's actually a better relationship with like, am I willing to make my own needs and desires important? Um,
Kiele: Like you love
Kyley: do it for them.
Kiele: Right. But where's the love for yourself in [04:23:00] those moments? Where's the love for yourself? I have to tell you a story. I have a client, um, who. For her 60th birthday. Her two daughters gifted her my program. This was a couple years ago, and at the time I had a six week program and I extended it to 12 now.
So anyway, um, she, her whole life had a very terrible relationship with food because she felt like, She wasn't worthy. And it all stems from your childhood and your past. And from when she was a very young age, she had a lot of siblings and her family was very poor. And so she was told she can't eat a lot of food, and food is too expensive and only certain days of the week they can have like a full meal and they could only afford to eat really bad food.
So she grew up with that thought and belief in her head and made that her story her entire life. And that bled into her relationships, her [04:24:00] work, her family, everything. And it wasn't until she was like in her late fifties, she started realizing that she was worth it. Within all that time of her whole entire life, she had eating disorders.
Um, she had a terrible relationship with any kind of food. She didn't like to cook, she didn't like to nourish herself and really struggled with depression until her late fifties. Then she started realizing, Wait, wait, wait. I can rewrite this narrative and these are my beliefs that I've had since I was a kid, but they're actually not my.
At all. So it took some time for her to rewrite her beliefs and create a new story for what was current in her life. And so then together we learned, uh, she took my group program. So she learned how to find the joy in cooking and make it pleasure filled and accept herself and give herself the self love that she deserves.
And it's still a struggle for her today. You know, I'm not saying that, Oh my God, after my [04:25:00] program, you'll be cured. No, This is gonna be a constant in your life if you spent 60 years of your life feeling and thinking one way and not nothing overnight is gonna change. Right. And it's, um, it takes a lot of willpower and uh, and strength and courage to bring it back to yourself and say, No, I deserve this.
And take the steps, um, and take action to change. It really does. You know, So
Eva: Yeah, it is beautiful.
Kiele: I just had to share that.
Eva: It's beautiful.
Kiele: We all go through our struggles. Um,
Eva: yeah, we do. But also food is hu I don't know. Food is, I, it's just I love food. I, and I think anyone who knows me, like in real life, like Kylie and I, we don't get to eat together that often, but like, I think
Kyley: Even I know you love
Eva: Yeah, okay. You know, I love food.
Like I think I'm a, my friends associate with me with food because it's just, I think part of it is also culturally like Taiwanese people,
Kiele: you guys got great food.
Eva: great food, great
Kiele: all about it. You're all about the [04:26:00] food. Mm-hmm.
Eva: tourist, you're not going to go see things. You come to Taiwan to eat things. And the question that we ask ourselves, like, you know, instead of asking How are you, The version of that in, in Chinese is like, Have you eaten yet?
Yeah. Because food, So when I see my grandparents or when the first question they ask me is like, Have you eaten? Because that's how we check in and say, How are you? Like, are you okay? Are you getting getting what you need? And then they feed you. So
Kiele: I feel that in my culture, I'm from Guam and so it's very close to Asia. And instead of, you know, when someone comes in, you don't say, How are you? You say, come and eat. Like immediately you're forced to eat something and if you don't eat something it's disrespectful. So, you know, that's how it is in my culture.
Culture. It's hilarious.
Eva: But it's complicated. It's also complicated. So it's like there's all this cultural stuff around it and also biological stuff. So I think food is just an interesting topic because it's this beautiful thing, but it's also really fucking complicated. And it, and to, I think what the [04:27:00] story, what your story reminded me of is that food can really fuck some shit up too.
You know what I mean? and play a huge role in our life.
Kiele: yeah, it can, it can go in all different directions. Um, and then to get to the part where you enjoy cooking is like a totally different hurdle too. Um, I, I love talking about sensual cooking and sensual nourishment. It's really sort of my bread and butter and what I've created with my company. And no one else is really doing this, but I just, the two just fit together for me.
Um, but I wanna explain to your listeners what that means. Cause I'm sure they don't know what the heck it means. Um, so to me, sensual nourishment means experiencing life, using all of your senses and living in gratitude every day. That is sensual nourishment. It's the ability to nourish your whole self and soul with healing in mind.
A thing I really focus on in my work is healing. It's not healthy, it's healing. There's a big [04:28:00] difference. I think too many people focus on what's healthy and what's right they associate healthy with. Right. And I think that's wrong because that doesn't help someone connect to yourself and your body. So, You know, really for me, one of the core focuses of of my work is nourishment through self-love, self-acceptance and having a deep understanding of your own nourishment needs is imperative because eva, what you need is very different from what Kylie needs and very different from what I need.
The truth is there is no one diet, there's no one way of living, and there's no one way of eating because everyone is different and requires different nourishments. So I really help women identify what that is for them while tapping into their sensuality and teaching them how to nourish themselves. So my methodologies are very different.
I like to connect nutrition, wellness, sensuality altogether in one big yarn, ball of love.[04:29:00]
Eva: I love
Kiele: Yeah.
Kyley: Can I ask what your own journey with, um, cooking and whatnot is?
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Where should I start? Um, let me see. I'll start from the beginning. Uh, I grew up, um, on Guam and I live in Austin, Texas now. And, uh, I'm a natural born creative. I graduated in 2004 from Pratt Institute in Brooklyn.
It's an
Eva: Oh, I lived right next to Pratt on
Kiele: Did
Eva: Yeah, . And I actually had a bunch of friends who went to Pratt. Yeah.
Kiele: I I, Man, I know Taffy so well, like that street. I lived on Clifton Place between Classon and Franklin for like two years. Uh, Brad is a, it's a, it's a fun place to be and a lot of people live around there. It's
Eva: Yeah. Great people. Great neighborhood,
Kiele: When did you live there?
Eva: Uh, I think I left in 2016, so I think I was there from like, for like five years before that. 11 maybe? 2011, 2016. Yeah.
Kiele: Wow. So the neighborhood changed by the time you got there. It already was like getting super nice. When I [04:30:00] was there, it was the ghetto and
Eva: Oh yeah.
Kiele: have a bicycle, um, with an easy lock, like a secure lock, but an easy one. So if you were like running from gangs, you could just like go. It was like that
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, it was a rough, It was a rough, yeah, it was definitely gentrified by the time I got
Kiele: Oh my god.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's changed a lot. So anyway, I lived in New York, um, for 20 years and was, had a totally, totally different career. I worked as a handbag and accessories designer in the fashion industry for 15. And, uh, in 2008, I suffered a seven month long metal poisoning that left me very sick and in need of some serious, like self care, self-love, and I needed to prioritize my nourishment.
And at the time I was like 27 or something and I didn't know what the heck to do. So anyway, I just was like feeling all the things as, you know, a New York woman like hustling, you know, just not taking care of myself in the ways that I should. And I suffered from burnout, [04:31:00] confusion, illness, stress, all of those things.
Eva: Can I interrupt really quick and ask, how did you find out that you had a metal poisoning?
Kiele: Oh, um, I was in China. With my coworker. I used to travel to China like six times a year all the time back then. And, uh, both of her parents were research doctors. And so she took pictures of my body because I had rashes and lesions from like the top of my head to the bottoms of my feet. Like I looked like my skin was just falling off and red and gross, and I was on a lot of steroids.
So she sent pictures to them and they were both research doctors in Seattle, and they were like, It looks like you have some kind of poisoning something, it like inflammation and poisoning. And by the way, the doctors at NYU and the New York Allergy Center did not know what the heck was wrong with me.
Like they just kept giving me steroids and kept taking biopsies and saying, You have an infection. And I'm like, Yes, I know. Tell me where it's coming from. And they just couldn't do it. And so it took that, and plus the internet back then wasn't as great. And so I was just [04:32:00] researching for hours. And so then it turned out they were like, it seems like a metal thing in your body.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: I realized that six months prior I got metal braces in my mouth to straighten my teeth and hadn't, hadn't thought about it because who thinks about that kind of stuff? So I went to my orthodontist and she confirmed that the brace system that I had in my mouth had 15% nickel and I just happened to be allergic to nickel and they didn't test that at the allergy center.
So they, once she took them out, I felt better, but I wasn't anywhere near healed. So,
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: yeah, I mean, it was affecting my nervous system, my skin, um, I, my liver, my kidneys, like all of my elimination organs, my stomach, I mean every organ was kind of in shock, my lungs. Um, so.
Eva: crazy.
Kiele: it was crazy. So I took a year to clean myself out and got really strict, um, about what I put in my body and just got off [04:33:00] all the drugs and stopped going to the doctors and just read every book I could about food and healing.
And back then, plant-based veganism was just coming out as popular in like 2007, 2008. So I just hopped right on that bandwagon and became fully vegan back then. I. It, it evolved into plant base, but because, but back then they had like, you know, vegan burgers of everything. Vegan was just coming out. It hasn't turned cultish yet at that
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: so and so, uh, I, it, it, it took me a year to clean myself out and, um, then I became like a super preacher, veganism, and, uh, when was that? 2008, 2009. And then in 2014, I decided to enroll myself, um, in the right education because I really wanted to learn more. What I found was I love knowing, like, and I love this knowledge.
Um, I love being passionate about my nutrition. [04:34:00] But I didn't really know where to take it. And I wanted to have like a health coaching kind of certificate. But at the same time, I really wanted to learn good skills. And so I found this great school in New York called the Natural Gourmet Institute, and it is the only, I think, found there's more.
But at the time, it was the only health supportive culinary school in the States. And I enrolled myself for a year. So I learned, I mean, about cooking, healing, nutrition, Chinese medicine, our Veda, um, it was a real culinary school. So I learned about all the things and it was a great year of my life. And I was still working full-time in the fashion industry throughout all of this.
And I started part-time chefing gigs. I started, um,
Kyley: Can I, Can I, Sorry, can I just pause cuz I love the sound of this school. Like I wanna like create an alternate path in life in which I go to this school cuz it [04:35:00] sounds so fucking great. I'm like, I wanna know all of these things.
Kiele: It was fantastic. Um, I, I didn't just want like a health coaching certificate. I, I didn't, and I looked up all the, you know, health coaching places and was like, eh, this isn't really what I want. I want skills. Because during the time that I was healing, I found that I really loved eating. I loved to cook, but I didn't have the proper skills and I wanted to learn the proper skills.
And I found that cooking was really the barrier that people have when it comes to getting better. If you don't like to cook, you're never gonna do it because you can hand someone like a meal plan all day long and say, Here, follow this. But if they don't have the passion to be in the kitchen, and if they don't have the skills to know how to chop, you know, a carrot properly in like five different ways, or, you know, if they don't understand temperature, they don't understand the energetics of cooking, they're never gonna do it.
Eva: It's
Kyley: if every single step feels complicated, Right. This is why like, you know, my husband is mostly cooking. I have [04:36:00] like five recipes because it's like, um, if every single step feels complicated, then it, it's emotionally it's a huge lift. Right? Whereas if you have the foundation of like, Oh, okay, I know, like I know the foundations, it's just not the same emotional
Kiele: No, yet you'll love it. Even something like cleaning and doing dishes all is incorporated in this training. You learn cuz a lot of people hate to wash dishes. You learn how to
Kyley: Oh, have you been the fly on the wall in my marriage,
Kiele: No,
Kyley: I even have a therapist once who was like, You've been fighting about the dishes for a decade. I'm like, I know. I know. I know.
Kiele: I have a YouTube video on my YouTube channel of how to find pleasure in washing dishes. I'm gonna send it to you
Kyley: Please do. My husband would He'll yeah. It would be very pleased if I watched this video,
Eva: hope. Yeah.
Kiele: I, I got together at like a, a women's, not a group, but like a women's wellness get together here in Austin of just like, actually it wasn't even wellness. It was like female [04:37:00] entrepreneurs in Austin just getting together and hanging out. And there's one girl on there who is hilarious. She was just like, Oh, I hate to cook.
And I was like, Is it cooking though? She's like, No, I just hate washing dishes. And in about five minutes I single-handedly switched and changed her mind and shifted how she thought about dishes just by talking about and identifying little things that she hated. And I'm like, Well, what if you like got better? Like dishware? What do you what? And she's like, Oh, I hate my dishes. I was like, Then get new ones. And she was like, Oh, you solved my problem. I'm like, And then I was like, And what if you got the dishware you like and think about it like an honor. The dishes that feed you, you know, then connecting it back to spirituality, that's what you guys talk about, right?
And so like the, these dishes are what feeds you and your family. And if you honor that, like think of them as another tool in your kitchen that you use. And that's how you start to think about all the stuff, um, and all the things in your kitchen. So you respect them
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: completely different thing. It [04:38:00] kind of changes the game a little bit.
Kyley: interesting. Okay. Sorry, I'm just gonna follow this train. Uh, I'm feeling resentful as you're proposing that I like my dishes. Like, like actual, my body's response is like,
Kiele: You're like, No,
Kyley: like cranky. It's like I'm cranky at the dishes themselves that I'm like, How dare you ask me. Anyways, this is an interesting, Clearly the dishes have a lot of emotions that I can sit with, is what I'm trying to say.
Kiele: Nice. I have, um,
Kyley: watch your YouTube video and then consult my journal
Kiele: Yeah, write it out. Um, I have one client that realized like, Oh my God, I eat on paper plates and all of my cups are plastic. And I'm like, Why is that? She said, Because I have a kid. I'm like, So she was like, Oh my God. It just, she just, her per perspective changed and she was like, I gotta get better dishes.
And then she really started loving cooking and plating things taking pictures of her food and like showing it off. It was like [04:39:00] completely game
Kyley: are actually giving me a huge aha. Oh my God, this is fucking great. Okay, so what I'm realizing, cause I'm sitting here thinking like, what is the part of the dishes that I hate? And you know what it is? It's when like, things are really, Cause we don't have a dishwasher, so
Kiele: that's a big thing.
Kyley: it's terrible. And our, we just don't, like, there's no way to, to fix anything in our kitchen is like a hundred grand project.
So like, we don't have a dishwasher. Um, and, um, and I don't, I, it's actually when like dishes are gr like, like really dirty,
Eva: Yeah. I think things are like caked on there.
Kyley: or just like, like if it's like, like if it's like a plate that had toast on it, or even like your plate that had chicken on it, that's fine. But it's when there's like gunky stuff on it. So I'm realizing if I just rinse off all the gunky stuff when I first put them in the sink,
Eva: Oh my god. Girl. Facts. Like that's a thing. Like, that's like how my, like my parents are like, they like instilled that in me cuz they could get mad when things got stuck on the dishes and No, you always have [04:40:00] to like rinse it off
Kiele: Yeah. Or soak it or soak
Kyley: I soak, so I'm a big, That's, that's what I do is I soak it. But what I'm realizing is that soaking, it still leaves it like grow. Like I don't wanna touch it later.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: So if I just rinse it out,
Kiele: rinse it out.
Kyley: it by the way. I just rinse it out. And then I have just a stack of dishes that are like, eh, not that dirty. don't have to touch anything gross.
Eva: Oh, this is real. I mean, I know this is like a, a small quote, small thing, but I actually find it very
Kiele: But it's a big thing though. It's a really big issue because a lot of people equate not liking to cook with dish washing, and then they realize, oh, it's not even the cooking thing. It's dish washing, which is like step three, right?
Kyley: like also, yeah, and it's like a big emotional component of like, honestly, since apparently I'm just making this my own personal coaching session. Thanks everybody. It's also like a big component of like, Like a certain guilt that I feel in my marriage, cuz my husband does like, like cooking more.
So he cooks more often, but he also notices when things is [04:41:00] full more so he ends up cooking and cleaning more, which is like, that's shitty, that's not fair for anybody. Right. Um, and so, so I just feel like a kind of low grade guilt all the time in the kitchen. So this feels,
Kiele: It's triggering.
Kyley: it's actually like I'm almost sitting here like, oh, I could even split the task in half where like in the morning I just rinse everything out and then I come back in the afternoon and actually wash them.
Like, like space is actually, this literally has been an issue in my marriage for 10 years. So like, this is big pal. Thanks a bunch,
Kiele: now, no problem. I, you know, I have my rules about like being in the kitchen and things being clean. So one of them is, don't fuck with my knives, because I love my knives and I'm very OCD about my knives. And if someone uses it, wash it and wipe it clean and dry right away. And I, I, I have to, It's a thing.
Um, and another tip, if you don't like to wash dishes [04:42:00] is when you cook, make sure your sink is completely clean and clear because it sucks to cook. And then have your, your sink completely filled with stuff already. It's. Making the problem even worse. So what I like to do is have my sink completely clear of any dishes so that way I can get as messy as I want if I want to.
But that's one thing I really do love to teach is the the dance between the kitchen sink and the stove and the cutting board and just how it could all be like one amazing dance. You know?
Kyley: Well, and I mean, I know I'm being kind of silly and really like making us
Kiele: You're not being silly.
Kyley: but I think what's, what feels so beautiful about this is like what I, I can see in your magic is the overwhelm of kitchen cooking food that keeps people feeling like, I don't know what to do with any of it.
I just don't like any of it. I'll keep eating toast. It's like, [04:43:00] uh, yeah. This way of like breaking it down into tinier pieces and then making those pieces feel safe and accessible. And that is, yeah, this is just very
Eva: Yeah. And examining things I think that maybe people don't usually examine
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Um, I really love, so you mentioned toast. One of the things I really love to do is help women understand why they want to eat certain foods. Because we all have cravings, right? And cravings stem from a feeling they stem from, you know, something we're doing. They stem from so many things. And since we're women, we're cyclical.
So like, we're feeling all kinds of things every week, like, and it's all different at all times. So one of the things I really love to focus on is teaching women. Not just what, but why? Cause I think that's super important. Um, a lot of what my work, uh, how do I say this in English? A lot of what my what, uh, the focus of my work has to do a lot with Chinese [04:44:00] medicine and how it relates to food.
So I teach about flavors and you know, how to not only make food delicious, but actually how certain flavors can heal your organs and control your emotions that you go through. So you mentioned toast and anytime people have toast, a lot of times it's wheat, right? They're at some kind of bread sourdough.
Internally that's very grounding. You wanna feel very satiated and grounded. And a lot of times people have that with butter or a jam, right? Um, and so that sweet flavor of a jam, if you have it on your toast, like paired with the crunch that you have, and then the silkiness and savoriness of like the butter and saltiness of the butter, it all sort of works together.
And all of those things do something different for your body. Um, and so it's really fun. So the sweet flavors, let's say if you have Strawberry Jam, I like to get really scientific with this stuff. And this is all Chinese medicine. Um, the
Eva: mouth. I'm laughing because, [04:45:00] Yeah, sorry, I'm laughing because I met my, my, I can feel myself salivating the, the, the, just like the talking about like the crunch of the toast and like the, the sweetness of the jam. It's like, it, uh, it's just, I'm having a physical reaction
Kiele: Yeah. Like do I want that right now?
Eva: Well, I love jam and toast. That's why, And I know like crave it for comfort. Like for me it's very much like a, this feels like it's, Yeah. Grounding
Kiele: Grounding. Mm-hmm. . Like, who doesn't love it? If you don't love it? You, I hate to say it, but you're a little crazy. But anyway, um, the sweetness of the jam also makes you really excited because sugar brings that feeling of joy in you. Also, on top of that sweetness, just sweet as a flavor. And I'm not talking about like sugar, right?
But I'm talking about sweet, natural flavors, like sweetness from strawberry, your cherry grape jam that actually is really nourishing for your stomach and your spleen according to Chinese medicine. And so there's so many different things that go on, and I really love to educate women, not just like what, but why and how, and how all of the [04:46:00] flavors connect to each other four different purposes.
Um, and that's how you connect to nature. I mean, it's all crazy complicated and really fun to learn. Not complicated. I think it's complicated at first, but you, you end up real, Yeah. You end up realizing that like, Every decision that you make about food, there's a purpose behind it. And there are certain, there are certain things that you crave and there are reasons why.
I'll give you a great example. So whenever people have hangovers, you wake up the next morning and you're feeling like absolute garbage crap shit. And a lot of times people just feel like they're not, like, they're just kind of out there, you know, like, like you can't really focus very well,
Eva: totally out of it. Floating. Like, I get really bad hangovers now, which is one reason I, I barely drink anymore, cuz my hangovers are just not worth it. But yeah, it is like a, it's like I'm not here. It's like I'm just, I,
Kiele: You're somewhere else.
Eva: yeah. My brain isn't working.[04:47:00]
Kiele: So in Chinese medicine, that's what's called expansive, right? There are two, um, opposing, um, theories. Uh, let me say that again. There's a theory in Chinese medicine, um, about expansiveness and ness, and they're polar opposites from each other, but they need each other. Sort of like the concept of yin and yang.
It's the same kind of thing. And I know everyone's heard of yin and yang, so when you are hung over, you are expansive, you're feeling very outward, like you're, you're the opposite of grounded. And so the first thing that people reach for when they're hung over, um, besides if you're the type of person, if you know you need another drink, that's very. But the first thing that people reach for is some kind of breakfast, comfort food, like eggs with bacon and toast and potatoes, right? Oftentimes like hash browns or something else. So if you think about the flavors and you think about what those foods are, um, especially potatoes, they're grown in the ground, [04:48:00] right?
So they're immediately kind of grounding. And the way people like it is salty because you need to replenish all the salt in your body, right? So what you're really craving is something super grounding. My favorite thing to have and to eat when I'm hungover is me. So soup, it'll cure you. Like that
Eva: Really?
Kiele: thing?
Yes,
Eva: were you? Like five years ago
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: or like 10 years ago?
Kiele: Favorite thing. So for all listeners, if you ever get hung over, have some miso soup because the salt from the miso is super nourishing for you. It'll give you the electrolytes you need, the seaweed, um, and the nutrients from the seaweed will give you all the vi the vitamins and minerals that you just got rid of.
The tofu will give you protein if that's in it, you know, I mean, it's like the greatest thing for you. So if you ever get hung over, trust me, have some miso soup the next day you will feel right as rain. It's fantastic. But that's just the power of flavor. And not just that, the miso and the seaweed, they're all part [04:49:00] of the water element in Chinese medicine.
So that brings the hydration back into your body and makes you feel really calm and soothed and, uh, all of that. So it's pretty fun to learn about.
Eva: that's really cool.
Kiele: So,
Kyley: Yeah, I am. Oh my God, the nerd in me is like, wants to just break down every favorite
Eva: food. Yeah.
Kyley: and like why and what it's doing.
Eva: can, can we do one, I'm curious, like what, is there like a go-to that you have,
Kiele: Um, What do you mean?
Eva: Oh, I'm talking asking Kylie if
Kiele: Oh, okay.
Kyley: I mean, for me it's like my go-to is always like some kind of like, like crunchy red product
Kiele: Crunchy bread, product
Kyley: Like, um, like, like crackers, toast, cereal, sometimes chips, but less so. Oh, you know what? Okay. Recently, this is a new, this is like my, like the past, like in a couple of months my like go-to comfort snack food.
Not, it's not historically, but it's been recently is what my kids call cheesy chips. Aka like [04:50:00] tortilla chips with some cheddar cheese on them. But for some reason they call them cheesy chips instead of nachos. Um, but it's like, not it. Yeah. I was actually just thinking, I wonder why this has become a, like, snack that I want all the time because it's not, it hasn't like historically been a comfort food, but
Kiele: So chips, like potato chips or like
Kyley: No, like tortilla corn, tortilla
Kiele: Okay. I mean, you know, corn and just, I mean, forget the chip part of it, but just corn as a food is part of the earth element. And I can go over the elements just to give you a little bit more knowledge. Um, if your listeners don't know and if you don't know about the elements, but corn is an earth element.
Food, which is immediately, again, like very grounding. It's grown on a stock. And so it's super strong for your body if you like, begets like, so if something grows in a stock and is really strong, it's like close to the ground. Also, earth element foods are almost always orange, yellow, or light brown in color.
That immediately is going to ground you. And again, corn is sweet, right? Sweet, sweet [04:51:00] flavors are part of the earth element. And so the sweet flavors nourish your stu and your spleen. They make you feel like really creative and imaginative, but you know, there's a yin and yang in everything. So if it goes a little bit dark, having too much of earth element foods like.
Corn, potatoes, uh, sweet potatoe squashes. It could actually create some worry within you. And so it's really fun to kind of learn what food can do for your body and also to note where you're at emotionally and mentally, um, and how to combat that with food and with cooking, because the way you prepare your food also makes a difference, right?
So, you know, a raw onion is a very different thing from like a cook sweet onion. And that process is very different in your body and you have different reactions from that. So super fun to learn about. And the cheese on top of that. Um, So it, what? It depends on what kind of cheese, I guess, like cheddar, something like that.
Um, I [04:52:00] mean, cheese is super salty. It has that really umami, savory flavor. Um, and it's just so, I mean, I love cheese even though having too much of it is like not so good for me. But cheese is really, really good because it brings feelings of, let me see, like, hmm, how do I say this in English? Um, like being organized.
I mean, it sounds kind of crazy that like cheese will help you be organized. I don't mean that, but it's all, I promise it all like works together in Chinese medicine, but it really benefits like sluggish people. It makes you feel like really good. It's a great source of, um, protein, you know, nutrients, vitamins, all of that stuff.
And so, and it's also like fat too. It's good quality fat. So that on top with the, you know, nachos or the tortilla chips, it kind of makes sense to me, you know?
Kyley: What's funny is also just for the record, like I also eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I'm just being honest about like, you know, my [04:53:00] comfort foods just for the
Eva: so funny, Kylie. I hadn't even thought of that,
Kyley: I self conscious, like, um, but what I think is, I'm really intrigued by what your point about like too much. Um, earth element can bring on worry because one of the things like when I was, especially when I was younger, I've talked on the show often about high, like had like a ton of anxiety in my twenties, um, and into my thirties.
Um, and I had this like really cyclical relationship with like, like that I was really aware that I started to become very aware of, of how like my anxiety would spike and I would re, I would reach for like, uh, earthy, mostly carbohydrate, like red products. Um, like literally to like quell an anxiety attack.
And, and I started to observe how like, it was also like, anyway, there's just this, there was like very clearly like a link between these two things. So, um, I like that Chinese medicine speaks to what some, a [04:54:00] pattern that I saw in myself when I was in my twenties. So I think that's, that's super fascinating.
Kiele: lot of people go through that and I think, um, that. Clearly you have your comfort foods. I mean, we all have comfort food. Um, but it's so fun to learn about how Chinese medicine works when it comes to food and learn about cravings and like why certain things exist.
Kyley: Because then you can actually tend to the real thing,
Kiele: you can, Yes, and I think the main.
Um, the main message here is to just, with Chinese medicine in general and even our veta, is to have balance. You know, Um, no one element is better than the other. No one food is better than the other. I am not your typical nutrition and cooking wellness expert that says, Oh my God, don't eat bread. Because I do think that bread, if you know, baked well, and it has good ingredients, has a place in our life.
I'm not the type of person to say, Oh, don't have butter and make everything low fat. No, I, I [04:55:00] think the more natural and whole, the better. And I think the main message is have a variety of all of those things, and make sure you have foods of all color and all texture, variety is really what's going to make you live longer and make you feel good in a whole, and balanced.
And that's just it. So for me, the five elements really helps with this. Just on a side note, I want to send you, is the chat available? Okay. I wanna send you, let me see, um, a graphic so you can, Is that all right? So just so you can edit this out if you want, but I want to give you a couple BR graphics that I give my, um, my people.
Eva: Can we share, Is it, is it like a link?
Kiele: um, it's not a link. I'm trying to, it's a jpeg I just pulled it up, but I'm trying to like put it in, but I can find a link somewhere and then add it to your, Why isn't it working? Sometimes this doesn't work and it's so annoying. [04:56:00] I don't know what to do. I'm trying to like drag it there and it's not, Oh, it's like the worst. Anyway, Sorry. I don't know if it's gonna work cause I'm trying to drag it and it's not working. Mm-hmm. . No. I don't know why like the plus sign comes up, but it's just not working, so.
Eva: Oh,
Kiele: I know. I know. Anyway, I will, um, I'll figure it out. , I'm sorry. Or I'll send it to you after. Um, and you can edit this out.
Eva: I'm gonna make a note for Jennifer. Jennifer who's our editor. Jennifer, can you might, would you mind mind editing that part out? Cool. Thanks.
Kiele: Um, what was I talking about? I completely forgot.
Eva: You talking about the elements?
Kiele: Oh right.
Kyley: was actually gonna ask, I actually have a question that I can jump back in
Kiele: yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, oh,
Kiele: What happened?
Eva: I
Kyley: hello? Hello? Hello.
Eva: Oh, now we can hear you. Yeah. You
Kyley: That was weird. I froze.
Eva: but we heard you. Yeah. You said something
Kiele: You have a question?
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, well, yeah, hold on. And actually, I'm realizing I'll use this moment [04:57:00] to plug in my laptop. Um, since, So we're, we're doing, we're doing all of our interruptions at the same time. Um, catch myself on, Sorry,
Eva: No worries.
Kyley: here we go. Okay. Um, actually speaking on the five elements, um, I, I mean, I know them from like a witchy perspective, , but I would love it if you could walk us through the five elements and sort of put them in the context of, of, of your work and Chinese medicine. I think
Eva: And I would say, I feel like my aunt's been trying to teach me about my element since I was like a kid. And sometimes I would just be like, Oh, like I don't, you know, I don't know if you guys know, but like Asian parents, families can be so particular about Chinese medicine and like they get really, you're not supposed to eat anything cold, essentially, [04:58:00] like ever.
And they give you shit for eating cold things, which is
Kiele: Yes.
Eva: anyway, so that's a whole thing. So sometimes I like, I want, I think it'll be good for me to hear it from you also, from someone who I think can break it down in like really practical terms
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Kyley: this like what reminds me of when, Sorry. Just as an aside, like my husband will say the same thing, like he'll like give me the same advice all the time and then I'll come home one day and I'll be like, You know what Eva said? And he's like, What
Eva: totally. Exactly. Exactly. It's like it's, it sinks in so easily when it's from
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. He's like, Oh really? That's great advice. I'm so glad you heard that
Eva: Okay.
Kiele: Oh my gosh. Um, I know what you mean about, uh, Asian parents. I've been to China a lot in Hong Kong, a lot in Japan and different parts of Asia. And the, the one, number one rule is always don't have anything cold. You have things warm all the time. I'll tell you a funny story really quick before I dive into it.
Um, I used to go work at factories a lot because I was a designer and I'd stay at these factories, you [04:59:00] know, all day for like two to four weeks at a time. And I was always so confused because in like downtown Shenzen in a factory, There would be like these cool, not coolers, but these dispensers of tea and with piping hot tea and it's like 105 degrees in this factory, but these people are drinking tea.
And I'm like, What are they doing? I don't get
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: You know, like, what is happening? And they're like, Oh, actually internally it cools you down. I'm like, Still don't get it. But the more I learned, the more I started to understand that process, that it wasn't necessarily about the heat of the liquid, it was about what happened internally in your body, um, and how it cooled things down, and also more importantly, how it kept your digestion flowing properly.
And so it was really, yeah, it was really interesting. So my nutrition philosophy is very different from other nutrition experts and professionals out there. I really love to focus on root cause healing, mind body, soul connection, [05:00:00] and ancient food wisdom, which is based on traditional Chinese medicine and Aveda, which are for people who don't know, to ancient medical practices that have existed for thousands of years.
So that's really one of, um, my core philosophies in my work is educating women on the healing energetic properties of food versus, like I said earlier, the healthy nutritional properties of food. So I really love to teach about the energy system and how the energy system rules all other systems in your body.
It rules the digestive system, the nervous system, the circulatory system, the respiratory system, the reproductive system, all the other systems. Um, and additionally, I love to take it to the next level by teaching the healing energetic properties of cooking. all is based on our senses because in order to really understand what is going on with our bodies and understand these, um, this ancient food wisdom, you have to start with [05:01:00] what's closest to nature.
And that's what I love about Chinese medicine. So let's talk about the elements really quick. So for those of you who don't know, there are five elements. There's fire, earth, water, metal, and wood, right? Did you know what those elements were?
Eva: Yeah. I mean, those are the elements that I, I know. I know, but I don't know. I don't know that I'd, How to dis distinguish them.
Kiele: Okay, so there's, there's five elements, and these five elements correspond with different things in nature and in real life, right? Just in life. Uh, they correspond with a season with organs in your body, with emotions that you feel with flavors like we talked about, and it's a really great way to see what's going on with your body where.
Signs of imbalance and where you feel balanced. So let's go over one at a time since we're in the summertime. Let's start with fire right now. Um, it's, we're in the heat of the fire element. We just kind of started in Austin. It's like 105 degrees. So it's very hot. Um, [05:02:00] and the season, like I said, is like summertime.
Um, the fire element corresponds with your heart and your small intestine. So any food that is part of the fire elements, um, and in that category nourishes your heart and your small intestine. Typically, they have to do with. Red foods. So think of a red bell pepper. If you look at it, it kind of looks like a heart.
Think of a strawberry. Same thing. It's a fire element. Food that nourishes your heart and your small intestine. The emotions that fire, the fire element brings to your body and brings to your life are feelings of joy and laughter. If you also think about how people are in the summertime, everyone's happy, everyone's out, it's hot, everyone feels great, and when you feel really good, your heart is nourished.
Right now, everything can go dark too, right? If you have too much fire, you can get really overheated, and that can cause anxiety. You [05:03:00] know, you can become manic about certain. So it can also go that way. But really, you know what the fire element foods should do is bring you feelings of joy and laughter.
Now, if you, if you have too much of the fire element within you and you're eating too much fire foods, um, there are certain things that show you signs of imbalance. So let's say you're depressed, um, you have insomnia, you have really heavy heart palpitations. Anything that has to do with your heart, like panic attacks, you feel restless, you have too much mental stimulation going on, or you feel really overwhelmed.
That's too much of the fire element that you need to cool down
Eva: Oh, interesting. So how do you Cool that down.
Kiele: Well, I would combat that with, um, water element foods for sure. And having wood element foods. So that's why it all is connected
Kyley: Mm
Eva: Okay. That
Kiele: Yeah. So moving on. So after summertime, we're gonna get into the period where we used to call Indian summer, but I guess we can't for like political politically correct reasons now.
So we just call it [05:04:00] late summer and um, that's represented by the earth element. So the earth element is super important because it still has the largest category of foods, and to me it's the most important I like to look at. Earth element, like the buffer element. So if ever you're feeling imbalanced in any way, bring it back to earth, which is why Kylie, for you, you know, whenever you're feeling a certain kind of way, your comfort food, I mean both of you, your comfort foods are like starchy, earthy kind of foods.
It's very natural what you go through. So again, um, the earth element corresponds with the late summer season, which is right before fall. And if you think about what's going on, everything's kind of turning orange. And yellow. And you know, outside like leaves are turning, um, the foods that are the most dominant are squashes, um, zucchini, yellow squash, corn, um, rices and grains.
Carrots. Yep, exactly. So all of those foods are pretty orange and yellow in color. And [05:05:00] all of those, um, nourish our stomach and our spleen. That's the corresponding organ organs with the earth element. The feelings that the earth element brings you are to feel really grounded and at peace and comforted, right?
Again, if it goes in a bit of a dark direction. If you're like too grounded, you can feel very, you know, worried and pensive. Um, and signs of imbalance there. If you know the earth element's completely imbalanced at your body are gas, bloating, poor digestion, loose stools, constipation, um, fatigue, weight gain, ibs, anything that has to do with the stomach, basically.
Oh, um, I forgot to mention, unless I did, I don't know. I'm just going on. I'm talking. Um, the dominant flavor for the earth element, air sweet flavors and the dominant element element for the fire, I'm sorry, the dominant flavor for the fire element are bitter flavors.
Kyley: Mm
Kiele: anything bitter in flavor, that's what you want during the summertime.
So like, think beer, [05:06:00] right? Like beer, like, like a ni there's nothing better than like a nice cold beer in the summer, right? I've been actually craving a lot of very bitter tea and it's just the summer heat and like what we talked about earlier with the tea, if it's really hot outside, the bitter flavors, they cool the inside of your body down.
So it's just kind of interest. Um, and then we move on to the metal element, which is right after, which is the dominant, um, element for the fall season. And those correspond with your lungs and large intestine. And again, this is like information that's out there. And this has existed for like thousands of years.
I mean, the first documents of um, Chinese medicine stem back to like, you know, 3,500 bc I'm not making any of this up. This is just what so many cultures around the world have adopted and have taken on as truth and has actually healed them. If you think about what did we do 200 years ago, you know, how [05:07:00] did we heal ourselves?
It was really through herbs, understanding the energetics of food and understanding what things did for you, and understanding just how we connected to nature. It's really cool and interesting. So anyway, um, the me metal element corresponds with the lungs and large intestine. The feelings that it brings you are like pride.
You know, you feel really proud. A lot of metal element people, um, are like, know-it-alls in like such a good way. Like they're never wrong about anything. But again, if that goes dark, you can feel a bit more sadness and grief. And the dominant flavor of the metal element is salty flavors. So think like I'm, I'm sorry, spicy pungent flavors.
So think like onions or think garlic and ginger. Those are the flavors of, um, the metal element. And if you have any signs of imbalance there, it's low energy, cough, phlegm, um, sore throat, ear, nose and throat problems, congestion. It's all kind of connected in really cool. Um, once [05:08:00] you start to learn all of it.
Kyley: like, And so, uh, yeah, so what's the, like
Kiele: Sure.
Kyley: to the metal once.
Kiele: my, my, we, I'll give you an example. My weakest organ in my body, cuz we all have one week organ that we have to pay more attention to are my lungs. Um, I've suffered from a lot of ear, nose and throat problems and oftentimes I would get bronchitis, um, and allergies really kick in. So for me, I have to focus a lot on the metal element and nourish my lungs.
So pretty much in every meal or every day, I. Onions, garlic, ginger. A big thing I like to make is just slice ginger tea with like lemon in it and call it a day. It's really easy for me. Or if I, if I have, um, a sore throat, I'll take sliced garlic with some sliced onion and just take a ton of honey and just like squeeze it on top.
Let it sit for about five minutes. The honey will [05:09:00] actually become more liquid instead of thick because the moisture from the garlic and the onion will seep into it and make it really liquidy. And then you just eat the honey for a week and your throat problems will go away. It's so cool.
Kyley: Wow.
Eva: Cool.
Kiele: but that's like very metal element stuff, right?
So, um, oh wait, what was your question,
Kyley: Oh, I mean, I've just, I, I, I, I feel like just the nerd in me, like, like the academic, he was just like, hungry for this information. Like, it's just really fascinating to me. So I'm like putting the, the pieces, the pieces together. It's also just interesting cuz like, I always feel like, uh, if you cut up garlic, I always feel like your fingers smell kind of med afterwards.
Does
Kiele: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: else has?
Kiele: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Um, I wanna explain the other two elements and then I'll talk about how they work together. So you can kind of, I'll, I'll go as quickly as I
Kyley: I'll stop interrupting you,
Kiele: No, no, no, no. Interrupt me if you want. You know, I mean, this, again, this is a fluid conversation. So after we exit the metal element and the fall [05:10:00] season, we go into the water element, winter season, those two correspond together.
And the corresponding organs for the water element and winter season are your kidney and your bladder. And if you think about it, right, the winter time is toward the end of the year. And what's one thing that people are like doing in their lives, like new?
Eva: stock, You mean like taking stock of their reflecting? Is
Kiele: Reflecting. Yeah. And, and also like making resolutions, eliminating what they don't want. Like saying, Oh, next year I'm gonna do this and this and that. So it's a process of elimination for them. And that relates to our kidneys and our bladder, because those are elimination organs. So even though we're like eliminating things from our body and our mind and our spirit subconsciously, we're like shedding things.
And that's what the water element does in your body. A lot of the foods in the water element are salty. And what salty foods do is like flush everything [05:11:00] out. So think like miso, seaweeds, mushrooms. Mushrooms hold a lot of water. Um, anything dark or. Yeah, blue or dark green in color. Um, like eggplant, black foods are in this category, so like black sesame, charcoal, um, not like everyone's eating charcoal all the time, but you know, there we had this whole thing with charcoal bread and using charcoal that eliminates, um, toxins in your body.
Let me see what else. Black beans are really good. So anyway, what those do for you emotionally is make you feel more calm. Remember what I talked about with the miso soup? Like it makes you feel more calm and in flow, but it could also go dark if you have too much water element where you almost are fearful to like step outta your comfort zone.
And the way you know that you are out of balance in the water element is if you have anything bad that has to do with your bladder, like UTIs or frequent urination or even sexual [05:12:00] dysfunction, um, lower back pain, um, kidney stones, bladder infection, stuff like that. That's how you can tell that there's something up with, you know, the water element within your body.
And then the last one is the wood element. And that's when spring comes, right? And the corresponding organs with that, um, element and that season are your liver and your gallbladder. And so what happens in the springtime, everyone gets really excited. Shit, it's blooming. We're starting to feel good, things are turning green.
Um, and that brings on excitement and you feel like you are progressing. You know that phrase spring cleaning that's like exists for a reason where everyone just wants to like start fresh, start a new start eating all the salads and doing all the things. It's that same feeling, but if it goes too dark, you can get like really irritable and angry.
Um, if, if you have that in you, right? If you're prone to that. Um, and the dominant flavor for the wood element is [05:13:00] sour. And sour brings on purification in the body and purification of your liver and your gallbladder. So foods, basically everything green is a wood element. Food. That's like the dominant color and dominant like food.
So salads, lettuces, celery, um, zucchini, um, lemons, limes, anything sour and flavor like vinegar, also, um, eggs, chicken, these, all things. Um, these are all foods that are within this element. And if you're feeling imbalanced, you know, within this element you have anger issues, um, joint pain, um, tendon pain, muscle aches, difficulty making decisions even, or arthritis basically.
So there's my main, my main point is it's so helpful to learn about all of these elements and how they play together. And again, the key is balance here. If you have a bit of everything in, you know, all the [05:14:00] foods, in every category, every day, which is basically. Every color, you know? Um, and every flavor. If you corporate all the five flavors in your diet every day, if you have all of the colors every day, you're good.
You'll always feel balanced and feel right, always. It's really fun to learn about.
Eva: So when you're talking about balancing things out, so let's just say like you talked about joint pain or like UTIs or back pains or, uh, I can't remember what else, but the heart, like heart palpitations, right? With the fire. So she has fire. So is the idea of like if you have heart palpitations because um, that's like not aligned, do you eat the opposite to like help balance that out?
So then you would eat like fire or water foods.
Kiele: Yes, Yes. So all of these elements can either nourish or extinguish something that's going on in your body. So for example, If you can just imagine all of the elements kind of together, um, all of them nourish each other. So earth, nourishes, metal, right? Metal nourishes water. Water, nourishes, wood, wood, nourishes, fire, [05:15:00] fire, nourishes earth.
And if you think about what all of those elements do in real life, like when you have a fire and you create ash, that creates earth, right? And then the earth creates metal because within the earth, like crystals are grown, right? And then in metal that creates water from the minerals, from the crystals and then water.
It's, it's so crazy. Like if you really think about it, it's so nuts. Water creates wood because they grow the trees, right? And then wood creates fire because you cut down the trees and you create the fire. And if you abide by that and understand how all of them play together, it really will start to make sense.
And so the way that you can also extinguish all the elements. So for example, if you have a lot of anxiety and you're like, Oh my God, like I'm having heart palpitations, like my, my heart is off and beating in weird ways, you have just too much fire in you. You can counter that with and cool that [05:16:00] down with water element foods.
So literally have water or you can have earth element foods to like ground you a bit, just kind of bring you back down to earth a bit.
Eva: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, it's, it all kind of works together. It's really fun to learn
Eva: I really love like the nature aspect of this. I think that like really speaks to me. It just makes sense to me that of course, Before technology or I, this kind of technology anyway, like that
Kiele: Modern medicine before modern medicine.
Eva: Yeah, yeah. That like this really, it's an advanced system, you know? This advanced system was created of course in conjunction, in connection with Earth and nature.
That just makes so much sense to me.
Kiele: Yeah, it, Go ahead.
Kyley: I'm just also like, kind of relishing in, like, we've had these systems of knowledge for thousands of years and like how modern medicine has been around for like, just like a tiny little spec.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: [05:17:00] And it's interesting how like, like how intense the investment is in being like, oh, like. not real, right?
Like, that's like you, that's not safe to trust. I think that's like a really reoccurring idea for people, right? Is that it's not safe to trust this knowledge that's been around for, you know, thousands of years,
Eva: got, that eventually like, like essentially got us here like
Kiele: yeah, yeah. Essentially you're, you're right. And I think, you know, part of the problem is that now in our modern era, we rely so much on research and proven research, right? Um, and if there isn't research done and there's no statistics, then it's questionable. And with these types, Wisdom, you know, with, with these types of philosophies, um, and way of living, it's very difficult to prove.
And [05:18:00] that's really the hardest thing. And so, you know, only recently has the, um, World Health Organization recognized Chinese medicine as actually being very beneficial to, um, our health. And that happened two years ago only. And think about, you know, how long this education has existed. I mean, thousands of years.
Aveda is the oldest form of medicine. It's like 5,000 years old. Chinese medicine came from Aveda and I think, like I said, the first records of Chinese medicine or about 3,500 years old.
Eva: yeah. But what's interesting is that that's only. In, I think like western cultures, meaning like, there is such a, this, this is colonialism, right? It's like the high, the pedestal of like, um, the clinical and over, um, something maybe Yeah. More traditional or
Kyley: the earth.
Eva: Yeah. Closer to the earth
Kiele: It, you know, if you follow this philosophy and you learn this [05:19:00] education, you really start to understand how connected to the earth you actually are. And you start to understand your place. Um, because we are all organisms in this world and on this earth just like everything else. And it goes back to the energy system, that everything is energy, right?
We are energy and we focus on our energy system. And that's not something that Western Medicine talks about. They have no regard to the energy system and they've never even heard of it. But what do we do as human beings? Every day we consume energy and we, cuz we need more energy, right? We need energy to live and survive.
And so if you focus on your energy system and ask yourself, how am I feeling? What do I need today? Things will really start to shift, and that leads to your senses and becoming a more sensual person, because all five, actually six of your senses, if you include intuition, you use them every day. And they're the one tool that you have to [05:20:00] feel extremely grounded and connected to nature.
Because we have five main, um, senses, right? We have our sense of sight, smell, taste, touch, and sound, and all of these things help us feel and be human. Um, and they all do specific things for us. And so it's all really connected, right? Um, it's, it's so fascinating to talk about and learn about and, you know mm-hmm.
Eva: can you like, So in our time, in our remaining time together, I feel like, you know, you talked about how, um, like sensuality and food is a big piece of your work. So can you maybe speak on that a little bit and what, what does that, what does that even mean be like, Cause I read that and I was like, that sounds cool, but I have no idea what it means.
Kiele: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said earlier, you know, I mean for me, my definition of sensual nourishment is really experiencing life using all of your senses, and it helps you live with gratitude every day. And, um, [05:21:00] my methodologies is just to teach exactly that. You know, how all of these senses can help you feel grounded and feel connected to yourself.
Because in this modern world, we're just always so busy doing all the things, you know, I mean, we're like a fast paced train all day long. Like just do, dealing with our to-do list, checking everything off, not taking time to actually ask ourselves how are we doing? What do we need? And if you take the time to focus on your senses every single day, I promise you will feel so much more alive.
Um, and. And just, I mean better about yourself. And so I think what would help is maybe if I go over the five senses, um, and what they are and what they do. So, um, our first sense is sight. And it is one of the most important senses. Like we use our site every day. Um, and what it actually does, and, you know, instead of just helping us see, is our site [05:22:00] actually gives us the ability to like, create things.
If we didn't have our site, we wouldn't be able to like make something or do something. It really gives us the ability to be creative, and that's important because that gives us direction and purpose. , Right. Um, and so a way I like to honor it and if people who are listening would wanna do this, um, I like to do like five senses cleanses.
And so the way I like to honor it is just observe your surroundings a lot more than usual. Like, take the time to, especially in nature, take the time to like look at something you've never really focused on, like, you know, a bush in near your house or, you know, just something else that you've never taken the time.
And just, just focus on that for like five minutes and see what happens. Um, the next sense is smell. Our senses of smell really influences our moods. So, you know, as if you, when you smell like baked bread, that's a very different smell from [05:23:00] if you're like in a New York City subway,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: right? Like just to give a completely gross exam.
Or like, if you walk into a bathroom after someone took like a massive shit and you're like, Whoa, I gotta get out of here. Like
Kyley: were so funny today. We, everywhere we went, my son kept being like, and he wasn't wrong for some reason. We kept being places that smelled bad and he was just like, It does not smell good, mom. And I would just be like, Just don't, you know, Like, I don't wanna ever shame them, but like, stop being so loud about, you know, this place that does not smell good.
Kiele: That's hilarious. Oh my God,
Eva: I never.
Kiele: meet your son.
Eva: I never thought about smelling mood, but it is true, like when you smell something bad, you're like, like it, like you're like upset.
Kiele: Yeah, you're, you're completely
Eva: like fresh laundry, I'm like, Oh, like, it's just like the, It's uplifting. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kiele: It completely influences your mood like that. It's so insane. And then the deeper level of that, and why that's important is. It [05:24:00] heightens your confidence and decision making. So imagine, you know, you go in a bathroom and you're like, Oh, it smells absolutely gross in here. Your decision, you walked out of there right away, right?
It's like instant. But if you are in a place that smells like lavender, You're like, you, you, it actually triggers something in your brain to like, think of good things or like maybe something you wanna accomplish. Like it's just, it completely changes your mood, um, and helps build your confidence and decision making.
It's really crazy. Um, and so what I love to do every day is do like a smell cleanse and just smell different things that I really enjoy just to kind of ground myself. So I always have, I mean, I have some here, I have like essential oils all the time that I carry with me. Um, if it doesn't smell good, I don't even bother with it.
It's, and I'm very sensitive to smell. Um, touch is really important because it connects us to humanity and to nature and touch makes us feel grounded and very conscious. Also aware of like if [05:25:00] something doesn't feel good, like if something's sticky or if you touch something that feels a bit bumpy, it immediately just kind of, um, dictates what you think about this thing.
Right? So it just immediately makes you really conscious. And a good way to nourish that sense, especially when you're cooking, is to, um, touch your food a lot more than usual, like clean fruits and vegetables with your hands. I know a lot of people that don't love to like, touch their food, they get really freaked out by touching their food.
Um, but what that does, if you, you know, have like a sweet potato, I wish I had one in my hand right now, but
Kyley: note, not my children who eat cereal with their hands like, like wet, soggy cereal with their hands. I'm like, That is disgusting,
Kiele: that's them also experiencing something, you know, I mean, you know, it's like an Indian culture. Everything tastes better with your, and you use your hands. Um, but I, I would say, [05:26:00] you know, touch food a lot more, eat with your hands because when you touch it, you
Kyley: So, okay, I'm so sorry. I'm just gonna tell another hilarious kid story. That's what this is all did today. Desi goes, he goes, You know what mom? It's my five year old waffles are a great finger food
Kiele: He's not
Eva: not wrong. Yeah, he's not
Kiele: not wrong.
Kyley: You know what? Yeah, you're right. Anyway, it's
Eva: the texture, like I, Yeah, I like, I feel like that's, there's something intuitive about that actually. Cause like, you just wanna pick that thing up. You don't wanna, I don't wanna cut my waffle. I wanna eat it with my hand.
Kyley: well, and the thing too that's making that, I'm also thinking about like the way I keep bringing up my kids' stories is like they don't have all of our stupid conditioning of separate being separate from the earth and like embodiment. And so of course I'm thinking of kids' stories in response to these because my kids like, smell something and then they respond to it.
It smells bad here, Mom. Right? As opposed to me who's like, well gotta keep it under wrap. So it smells like, you know,
Kiele: I actually really [05:27:00] love how you're bringing up your kids because they do react very differently. They have a visceral reaction to everything and I think it's really cool that they love to touch everything. That's how they experience life. And so for me, you know, when I have kids soon I won't, I thought about this a lot.
Like, Oh, will I get mad if they just like touch their food all the time? I don't think they will. I think teaching proper manners is good too, but there's a fine line cuz I don't wanna take that experience away from them. You know, if they're touching their food and eating their food, like, hey listen, you know, you'll learn a, learn a, how to use a fork and knife like when you're five or something.
Maybe all the parenting coaches out there may think I'm crazy. But I do believe that touching your food as you eat it is really important.
Kyley: Well, and that's just also just interesting, like kind of, cuz that's always how I've been. Um, and it's only recently, my son is five and a half and it's only recently that I've been like, Okay, actually you're grossing me. Like, like, and it was just totally this internal switch where I went from being like, Hey, do whatever you want to.
Being like, [05:28:00] Oh, now I'm actively grossing out by you . And I don't feel that way about my three year olds. And I actually do think it's kind of like a developmental thing where I'm like, like, like some, some, some kind of mom part of my brain has like registered like, Oh actually you are old enough now to handle napkins and like proper silverware and I don't shame my kids.
But like, it's just interesting observing Exactly your point of like, oh no, we're that, we're wrapping up this like wet cereal with your hands face
Kiele: Yeah. It comes a point. It comes a point like let them experience life, but then also
Kyley: But it wasn't like an intellectual decision. It was like my body was like, Oh no, mom, you're done with this phase. So anyway,
Kiele: Oh my God, that's great. I love it when you bring up your kids' stories.
Kyley: There are many of them.
Kiele: I can't wait to live your life. Um, so then the next one is taste right? And that's like everyone's favorite when it comes to food and. The sense of taste settles our emotions. [05:29:00] You know, that's why we taste certain things. Like if you, it just settles your emotions for whatever you're going through.
Simple as that. Like we talked a lot about like comfort food, right? And that those emotions need to be settled. There are even foods and drinks out there that if you wanna feel like more excited or veracious or whatever, more happy, more alive. There are the foods for that, right? That's what fruits do For me.
Fruits make me feel really like excited and you know, that fresh feeling. Um, and it's important because it communicates with our bodies and brings happiness. That's what it does for us. Um, and so what I love to do and tell people to do is taste your food as you cook. A lot of times people just throw shit in a pot and just let it go and not taste the flavors and see how they blend together.
And then they're like, Oh, this wasn't great. I'm a bad cook. Like immediately. That's what they say. But I think it's best to always have a tasting spoon in your kitchen and by the stove. So as you go every [05:30:00] step, taste your food, see what it needs, it starts to listen to your senses. Cause it really will make a difference and then it'll build confidence, right?
Um, and then the last one is sound. And that's super important. So sound soothes and transforms our feelings and it stimulates the vagus nerve, um, and makes us feel safe. This is why it's important. Sound is safety. So think about the sound of like a rolling, gentle boil. and how that sound is so soothing or think about something sizzling and what that does for you.
You know, it's a little bit exciting, like, oh, something sizzling. Sounds like great. Or like the sound of like sh frying, right? That's really exciting. Um, or, you know, I mean all of these sounds just make a huge difference. And so that can really affect, you know, your experience with food and cooking and your experience in the kitchen.
So sound is super important. So what I like to do is infuse all [05:31:00] of this ancient food wisdom mixed with tapping into your senses as you cook, and then mixing that with actual tangible skills. So I teach women how to cook properly. So I teach proper knife skills. I teach little tricks and tips and all the things in your kitchen, and I teach about different concepts like temperature and the energetics of food.
And what really all of that does is connect to our senses and to nature and. What happens is you get rid of the diet culture in your brain and you get rid of the fact that there are right and wrong foods and that, Oh, I can only, I'm only, I can only do keto or I can only have this, and, you know, I don't, I don't eat dairy because, you know, some magazine told me so, and I think I'm intolerant.
Like, no. What you start to realize is that every food and flavor does something for your body and you, unless you have a serious allergy like peanuts, like that's very different. But you know, [05:32:00] you start to understand that there's a purpose for everything. And at the end of, at the end of it all, it's about creating balance and understanding what you are personally going through and how to nourish that within you.
And so it's, it's just so fun and way more scientific than most people think. And uh, to me that is sensu nourishment and that's what I love to teach. And I've just seen. So many women just have serious breakthroughs. And I have at this point with my work, I've helped hundreds of women and they've not only healed themselves from the inside out when it comes to their emotions and their thoughts and beliefs around food and cooking.
Um, they've also done really great things like healed their P C O S and endometriosis and adenomyosis and, um, fear of cooking even. And, um, anxiety and depression and eating disorders. Uh, I mean, diabetes. It's just been so [05:33:00] cool to see them overcome certain things and really start to embody sensuality in their lives and focus more on themselves and how to nourish themselves properly.
And so that's just been really like the magic that, that I've been able to witness and share. So, Hmm.
Eva: I love this. I just, I love it. It's interesting because you can argue that everything is essential experience, you know, like creativity, art, music, and everything is, But I do think that food is a special medium in which it makes sense. Like it really is a sense oriented thing like, Just on a biological level.
Like I, I've noticed like when people sit down on a table and they're hungry, it's like you fucking dive into that food and you're like, if you're like really hungry, you're like an animal. You become really instinctual and, and, and your sense, all of your sense is like, yeah. Smelling the food, tasting the food, like, you know, touching all of it, like cooking.
And when you're talking about the sizzling, like, I really, it yeah. I [05:34:00] could really resonate with that of like, I get excited when I hear something and smell something getting cooked and it, yeah, it brings up, you know, all this stuff. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm inspired actually to, to, um, clarity or love food, but I think, Okay, so actually, so my question is actually bringing it back to the very top, do you have any suggestions for, for people who are like, Yeah, but I'm too, I don't have enough time.
Or like, when you struggle with feeling like, um, it. Because I actually enjoy cooking. And also sometimes I'm like, it's easier not to . And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that or any guidance that you offer to people who maybe feel like they don't have enough time to cook?
Kiele: I mean, my question to you would be what makes you feel like you don't have enough time?
Eva: Um, I mean, that's a great question. It's more, it's not, it's more of like, I know that I could, uh, spend an out, you know, I go to the grocery store, spend 45 minutes cooking, or I could like order something online [05:35:00] and that would be much faster. Do you know what I mean? It's more of like the, the ease. And I will say I'm also spoiled because my partner is a cook, so he does all the cooking.
And so I've just gotten into a habit of just letting him, like do it all and.
Kiele: lucky lady.
Eva: I am very lucky, but, but I also, But I have to say, I also miss it. Cause I think there's something really special about cooking, and I've been noticing that, like, I don't do it anymore because I just default it to my partner,
Kiele: I think the first thing I would say is don't put any pressure on yourself to like feel like, Oh, I need to change and like, cook three meals a day and just stick to that. No, because you'll burn out. Um, if you are the type, well, first of all, it, it stems down to the experience you want because getting takeout and going out to a restaurant is a very different experience from cooking at home.
And I think both have its time and place and they're both good. My, what I like to talk about is really your experience with the food. If you're just the type that's very mindless with food and you just. Eat really [05:36:00] quickly. I would work on your connection with food in general, because my rule of thumb is I don't care if you're sitting down eating a McDonald's burger or you're having like a home cooked meal.
What matters is how you feel about that food. If you sit down to eat with feelings of guilt or shame or fear or worry that, Oh my God, this is gonna make me fat, or whatever your worries are, you're gonna have a hard time digesting, You know, your body's not gonna respond well to it, and it's gonna become a pattern.
And so it's better to just resolve to the fact that you're having a good time and enjoy
Eva: Yeah. And enjoy it. Like,
Kiele: and, and, and digest. Yeah. And then you'll have feelings, you know, your digestion will be a lot better. Um, I don't, don't care what you're eating, just know that. But at the same time, I do think it is better to have like whole real food, right?
I'm not saying go out and eat a McDonald's burger all day every day, but just note how you're feeling about that experience. And I think for you, Um, I think once in a while, tap [05:37:00] into the feelings that you experience when you cook. Do once a week, you know, one day a week,
Eva: what you said already was just really simple and helpful cuz it made me realize like, Oh, I'm comp, I'm comp, I'm, I'm conflating and, um, making takeout the same as cooking. And what you pointed out for me is like, wait, I have to remember they're not, they're two totally different experiences and I'm noticing, I'm craving the experience of cooking.
Like, I like connecting with my food. So I like touching food. I like washing my, like, I like all the things that you have said. And even this conversation has made me realize that. And so it really is as simple as realizing, wait, I can't order food, but it's not gonna give me the satisfaction of the thing that I'm really craving, which is like a moment of like putting on some music and like fondling my lettuce
Kiele: Yep. Not looking at the clock. I think also not looking at the clock really helps because a lot of people are like, Oh, this needs to take 45 minutes. And I get it. If you have kids and there's like bedtime and all of that. But if you have a partner, [05:38:00] create an experience for yourself and just say, This is my night to do this and I'm just going to enjoy it and make something you really love and enjoy it
Eva: I love that.
Kiele: and then wash your dishes really, essentially
Eva: already. Super helpful. I
Kiele: Great. Awesome.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: Um, what else should we talk about? So many things we've covered.
Kyley: Oh my gosh. I know I could, uh, I just also feel there's a couple, I mean there's actually a lot that's come up for me in this conversation. The dishes thing really, really feels big, uh, that I guarantee you a month from now, my joy is gonna be like, guess what guys? Turns out I figured out dishes because of Kelly.
Um, uh, but I'm also in this moment thinking about like based on your, what you just shared with Eva is like, yeah, I do a lot of food prep for my kids and you know, and I managed to be, get myself something in the process and I'm now in this moment thinking like, how can I make it more delicious? [05:39:00] Like, of an experience?
Like how can I make it more like sensual and, and playful when I'm making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as opposed to like, cuz it is a thing that I have to do. You know, most days I'm the breakfast and lunch person and so like, can I. Just like make that a richer experience as a way of actually nourishing myself more instead of, um, uh, instead of like a thing.
I have to check
Eva: And sort of like a chore. Yeah.
Kiele: you, do you have them come in and help you in the kitchen? I know they're
Kyley: son is so cute. He's so, he's the five year old and he's like really into making his own food, like as of like a month ago. And so , he was so funny, He was so proud of Look at my Sandwich Mom. And the bread is like in like 17 different pieces, like a total shit.
And I was like, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. I mean, my house is never clean, so I don't care about them making a mess, you know? Um, so yeah,
Eva: think that's so [05:40:00] important though, cuz
Kiele: think so too.
Eva: I know, I don't know, I just know people who never got the chance to be in the kitchen when they were kids, and then they're like totally disconnected from that whole experience. And that's up.
Kiele: Yeah, and they, I, I know them as adults and they don't feel, uh, competent. Um, they don't have a lot of confidence and they don't know what to do. A lot of those people are my clients, and so it's really interesting that
Eva: that impacts your entire life, because food is something that you do every fucking day, multiple times a day, unless you're fucking, you know, whatever, doing. What's the thing where you inter fasting,
Kyley: Yeah.
Kiele: Yeah, I think that, you know, bringing them into the kitchen and asking more them, more, like letting them taste the only, the peanut butter and only the jelly, and saying like, Oh, how does this taste alone? And seeing what they say and what they experience, and then how does the jelly taste alone?
Kyley: I mean, you're totally right as a mom, as like a, like giving your kids the fun experience, but I'm actually thinking about like,
Eva: You're,
Kyley: booting them, but like, like really letting it be [05:41:00] for me, right? Cause like, I bake with them all the time and like, they cook dinner, My husband like, brings 'em into the kitchen for cooking dinner.
So they're pretty integrated into that. But I'm actually thinking of like, for me, how can I let it be like, like,
Eva: Yeah. You taste the jelly. You taste the peanut butter
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Kyley: Um, and uh, and that feels actually really, really fun, which may ultimately include them, but there's actually like a particular thing that I'm envisioning of like, Oh yeah, can I just let this be something that I slow the fuck down about and like, enjoy slicing the strawberries into a million pieces for them instead of just like, you know.
Eva: Instead of like chop chopping or.
Kiele: of just, Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say this is a tough one because I'm not a mom yet and I can't wait to explore all of these things. Um, but I would say, um, wow, this is [05:42:00] tough. What I would do is just be more creative, um, with like the way I cut things and um, like do fun things like. Cut the strawberries in just a different kind of way.
Or maybe even like top them with, I don't know, whipped cream or something. I'm making it
Kyley: But I'm
Kiele: you probably already do that
Kyley: Well, I mean, I'm, I, I'm also even just thinking of like, honestly of everything you shared about like the, like the five senses. Right. And I'm actually like just seeing like the exact same sandwich and the exact same strawberries, but just showing up for it. Right. As opposed to just like this kind of mindless, I have to get through it.
Eva: Having that sensual experience,
Kiele: Got it. Okay.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: just slowing, slowing myself down and being present for making them lunch as a way of allowing it to be a nourishing experience, which then probably does make space to be playful and creative cuz it's not a should. It's a like, [05:43:00] like,
Kiele: it's not a should, it's, it's more of like, what are you experiencing in this moment? Like how are these strawberries looking? Right? Um, What is this? What, how is this jam going down, like on the, on the bread, Like just making it like a bit richer and just
Kyley: exactly. Just the
Kiele: rather than just slapping it on?
Um, there's a big difference between, Oh, I'll give you a great example. Um, my ex-husband's sister, so I guess effectively my ex sister-in-law, um, was really good at this where he described there's an eight, eight and a half year age difference between the two of them. And so she kind of like raised him in some way, but when he was a little kid, he always described the way that she put jam on bread and she would like very gingerly do it and like the knife down properly and like spread it all the way to the ends of the, of the bread and like make it all even.
And in my mind I'm like, Whoa, she really thought about that [05:44:00] because I used to just like slap it on and not care. You know, and she, he was like, Oh, I just really loved the way she would do that. And he remembers that as like a three year
Kyley: Yeah,
Kiele: And so that type of thing is what I'm talking about. And I think maybe what you're alluding to
Kyley: Yes.
Kiele: what you want, just like,
Eva: Yeah,
Kiele: savoring the moment a bit more rather than making it into a chore and just shifting your perspective a bit.
Um, so just spread that jam on, you know,
Eva: that's gonna be your motto. Spread that jam baby
Kyley: of all of you when I am
Eva: when you're spreading that
Kyley: spreading the jam,
Kiele: I love it. I love it so much. It's so great.
Eva: Okay.
Kyley: this has been the best.
Kiele: been really fun,
Eva: has been great. . Um, I think it's time for joy.
Kyley: Yeah. Should we do a round of joy?
Eva: Yeah. Let's do it. Um, do you want, do you wanna
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: Sorry.
Kyley: Okay. What's something that's bringing you [05:45:00] joy right now?
Kiele: Um hmm. The possibility is of making a family that's bringing me major joy. Um, yeah. Big time. I'm ready
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: That's
Kiele: here for it.
Eva: Yay. That's
Kyley: Ugh.
Kiele: Big? What, what about you?
Kyley: Um, so my friend, uh, the other day just pointed out it was, it was Liz listeners. No, Liz. Um, she was like, I just love your summer. Every time I talk to you, you're like going on a new adventure. And that really does feel like this summer has been like, I went to the, I like, What, what?
Just like going and being in adventure mode with my kids is so much fun. Like that is like the way that I feel like that, like that is like a way in which I shine as a mom is like, get in the car. Like to the food piece, I'll like literally like throw the loaf of bread and the peanut butter and jelly in a bag and just be like, just get, get out the door as quick as [05:46:00] possible.
I'll make us lunch when we get there. I don't even know where we're going. And, um, and we've been going to the beach and the playground and we've just been like, on the go. And with Covid, that wasn't always an option with cold weather, that isn't always an option. And I fucking love summer. I love being on the water.
Like yesterday we were at this, we went to this pond that I'd never been to before, and we were there from like, uh, like nine 30 in the morning until four in the afternoon. And, uh, everyone, like I saw Birdie today had like the little, like, you know, when you, she's got her little tan lines from her little bathing suit and I just feel like, okay, yeah, we're nailing like we're nailing summer this summer.
And uh, it feels like, it just feels really delicious. So
Kiele: Oh, that's fantastic.
Eva: love that. You know, I love suck. Who do I, Yeah, I think you were saying, you were saying, Kay, that like everyone loves summer. I do think some people don't love Summer, and so I try to be sensitive towards that because I'm a summer freak and I don't wanna like [05:47:00] rub it in people's noses, but I fucking love summer
Kiele: I fucking love summer.
Eva: it's just like where I thrive, so, And I could feel that vibe from you Kylie, as you're talking.
Kyley: And I feel like sometimes at the end of summer, cuz I also, you know, summer person, sometimes at the end of the summer, I feel like there's can be this moment of like, grief that's like, Oh, did I, did I do it right? Did I do it enough? Did I, like, you know, this moment of like, I should have played more dumb.
And I, this feels like a summer, like it's still June and already we're like, we're fucking doing summer. And I, I feel really good about, I feel really good about my odds of remorse being limited.
Eva: Love it. Cool. That
Kyley: about you?
Eva: Okay, so mine's also somewhat summer related. I want to give a shout out to my joy of, of Hammocks Haven. I talked about hammocks, yet, I think I've talked about it last year. I will probably always come back once a year to talk about my joy of hammocks because I just, I [05:48:00] don't know what the fuck I was doing with my life before I had a hammock, like
I like being in a hammock is truly just the best feeling. Like I love the feeling of being cocooned in something and rocking and looking up at the trees in the sky, and it's such a summer thing. And, um, so now we have two hammocks in our house, and so I'm just like, I think I've
Kiele: I was just gonna ask that. I was just gonna ask you have a hammock in your bedroom.
Eva: no, I don't have, I thought about putting one actually here in my, in my attic space, but I like being like kind of outside and so, um, but, but I'm not, you know, who knows? That could happen. It was more also that, um, this is a bit of like a detailed rant, but like, when I think about women on their period and on their bleed, I have this vision of like, what I want, which is like, I really wanna be like eating grapes, like off the vine, being fanned, like Greek goddess style, naked in a garden with other women.
Like that's how I think the period should be. And so I was on my period [05:49:00] and like in fetal physician in this like hammock and eating cherries that were growing off of my tree. And my partner came out, he's like, You look like a painting right now. Just like, And I was like, Yes. Like that is what I'm fucking going for.
Like, I, I manifested that because that's how I think it should be one on a period. Just if you, if you are not spending time in a hammock, I just highly recommend that you go and, Cause you can get one. I recommend Cammock. It's a brand. It's like that kind, like you can like pack it and just bring it to the park.
You don't need to like, have all the tools to like put it up. You just need two trees, some type of sturdy thing. If you can't do it at home, you can like bring it out into nature. It's the shit.
Kiele: I'm all about the hammocks. Um, and I love, I was just envisioning you like on your bleed in a hammock eating cherries. Also, I wanna mention just from like a, you know, five element Chinese medicine perspective, cherries are one of the best things you can have during your period. Be. Yep. Because if you think about cherries, what are they?
They're red food [05:50:00] and red foods and they're, if you think about like the cherry juice, it's really
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kind of bloody. And so it's nourishing for your blood. And as women, we lose blood every month and we have to regenerate that blood every month. So things like cherries, beets,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kiele: kinds of other berries, um, even red.
Eva: red bean every
Kiele: Red bean is very good. Red meat is very good when you have your bleed. So all of these things are really good for your period. So when you said cherries, I was like, See, it's natural. You know these things and you're doing them already, so it's just you're already connected in a way. What I love to educate on is, is the why and how, and so it's just so fun.
So,
Eva: Well, why don't you tell our audience our awesome be of audience? Well, how they can find you and how they can work with you.
Kiele: Oh my God, I loved being here and, um, I, I just love podcasts and thank you so much for listening everyone. Um, you can find me on [05:51:00] my website. It's www.keylejl.com, so k i e l e j a e l.com. Browse the website. I have two awesome online courses. I have a mini course that's called the Intro to Sensual Cooking 1 0 1, and it's like, A very simple 21 day mini course if you wanna do one lesson a day or just binge on it.
Um, it's super fun. And then I have my full course, The Art of Sensual Cooking, and that has six modules in it. It's really rich. I basically dive into all of this and teach everything I know in this one course. And if you wanna just book a call with me, I give free consultations. I love talking to people.
So just go on my website, click I think contact, and uh, fill out my form and we will chat. Mm-hmm. hang out. So thank you so much for having me and
Eva: you. This is really awesome.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: And we're out
Kiele: Wow.