Kyley and Eva want to worry less and let go of control—but how? Together they dive in on just that.
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audiokyleycaldwell[sh22640476683 and audioEvaLiao32640476683
Eva: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, it's Eva here.
Kyley: It's Kyley.
Eva: Welcome back to another. Hello Universe.
Kyley: Woo woo. Uh, okay, wait. Uh, I'm so happy to be here. What you all don't know is that Eva just like coached me through a like major life update in which Kylie has her period on this new moon in Pisces vibe and just need some.
Eva: It is so Moon and Pisces, no wonder
Kyley: Yeah. I don't, I try not to like overread [00:01:00] astrology and then sometimes I'm like, oh, hello astrology.
Um, meaning like I try not to let it be prescriptive. Right? Um, uh, so anyways, what you all missed is the off recording epic coaching, uh, that I just received from my best pal Eva. And now that I'm no longer quite as sad of sad potato. We're ready to record
Eva: Yes. It is funny having friends that are coaches, cuz we're like, are we, I mean, are we co, are we having a conversation or is it coaching? It's like really there's no difference. Sometimes it's
Kyley: Yeah. I specifically put it in the context of coaching cuz I feel like, I do feel like when you're a coach there is just this and your friends are coaches. There is this particular way of holding that's like, we, we got
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: big guns coming out, we got
Eva: Totally. Which is great, by the way, when people are open to, so I've had to like, I was in the very, very, very infancy of like becoming a coach. There was definitely a period of time where I was like, oh, I'm a coach now and I'm gonna coach people and all like even friends who [00:02:00] just don't wanna be
Kyley: who aren't asking to be coached.
Eva: just trying to tell me about their life. Like that can be the most obnoxious fucking thing in the whole world. But what I love about a lot of my coach friends is that like they're totally here for it because they know how great it is. And it's also like, yeah, it's free coaching.
Kyley: Yeah. You know that, you know that phrase implied consent about like, when you're in a long-term relationship, like there's implied consent that you can like go up and just like kiss your partner in a way that you couldn't, like random a person in a bar. I feel like there's like implied consent that like you can coach your
Eva: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So that being said, yeah, I mean, we were kind of having the, a big theme that we came around to towards the end of that conversation was once again about the art and gift of surrendering, which,
Kyley: torture. Like, let's be real. No, we all, we all
Eva: you mean like how torturous it can be when you're really attached to something?
Kyley: Well also, like we all, like, you know, surrender is like, [00:03:00] continues to be the medicine and also it's fucking hard to surrender, right? So it's, it's, yes. Control is like, the refusing to surrender is torture and also surrender is terrifying. You know, because a re there's a reason that we resist it,
Eva: Well, I would say, . The higher the stakes something feel like the more important something is to you, the more attached you are because you love it or because it it, you value it, then it feels harder. I'd also say it's also harder when you're like, I wouldn't say not in a good place, but like if you're a really anxious or you're like nervous system, your bo whole body is tense.
And cuz I think sometimes surrenders like can be super easy, but like, and that's actually I think helpful for me to know. It's like when I'm relaxed, I'm like, oh yeah, surrender great. It's easy. Let's do this.
Kyley: Yes, yes. And it is a really good point that if it's a. if it's an area that I already have like a lot of trust around, like, I think about it in terms of if I'm surrendering [00:04:00] into, like, we've talked about feelings, right? And like to feel your feelings is its own kind of surrender. And like if it's grief, I'm like, oh yeah, I can surrender to grief all day, right?
Like, is in like, sadness is like a relatively comfortable emotion for me to experience versus like, you know, if it's shame I'm like, oh, look at me. Resisting. Resisting. Um, or like, I don't know, like, yeah, things that you, that you not either not that not as attached to or I feel like if you have a lot of trust built up, you know, like you and the universe have a lot of trust around a certain topic
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: or area that can also make it easier to surrender, even if it's a dear to you thing,
Eva: That's a really good point. Okay. So that, really helpful. I'm glad you said that because I think what it's making me realize so that I have certain areas in my life right now that I've been having a hard time surrendering to, or [00:05:00] surrendering, surrendering into, and I've realized, oh, it's because I don't trust the outcome.
I don't trust yet that I'm gonna be safe. I don't trust yet that. that the grand plan, essentially that I've signed up for, that I'm on that path.
Kyley: yeah, yeah. So then we like grasp and control, right? Like that's, then it's like, okay, if I don't, if I, uh, I'm wonder, I'm wondering if we should maybe start speaking in like tangible
Eva: Tangible things. Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Kyley: the, basically, I think the basic framing is, To make a binary, but there's surrender and there's control. And when we aren't in surrender mode, we're not like actually kind of like soft and letting go, then we're kind of grasping and controlling.
And I think both of us experience that the graspy controlling place is also the place of suffering.
Eva: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll speak for me. One area that I am that's showing up for me [00:06:00] a lot now is, I think on the last Ky Eileen Eve episode, which I think was last week, I talked about this road trip, you know, leaving Portland, being in transition, getting to Austin. Um, and I still haven't even really talked officially about what it is that I'm doing in Austin.
And maybe I'll save that for another episode, cause that could be a whole thing. But as, so this is like, it's been a little bit over a week and part of my experience here is living in an Airstream trailer. So I'm living on Eliza's, she was a guest on the show a couple weeks ago, but she's also a friend of Kylie's.
She has a piece of property in Austin, which is honestly the perfect blend of what I've been looking for, which is like, I wanna be in nature, but not so far into nature that I don't have my like creature comfort. So like, it's basically this beautiful nature esque place in the city of Boston, which is like, I think just a very rare thing
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: you get to have both.
Kyley: [00:07:00] Yeah.
Eva: and she has this like creek right behind her house. It's, it's like not, it's like, it's like a homestead vibe. Like there's a real home. Like it's, it's not just kind of nature, it's nature, nature. And, um, like I could, I don't feel like I'm in a city when I'm here.
Kyley: Oh
Eva: Yeah. And so I am, she has an Airstream trailer.
I'm living in it. I fucking signed up for it because what I wanted at the time was like to be closer to nature and also to see if I could live a more simple life. And that really appealed to me. And now that I'm here, I'm like, oh my God. There's so many things that are just like driving me nuts. Oh my God.
It's like, Kylie, I can't even tell you like I am, because what, because here's the funny thing folks, is that like, this is what I wanted. And also I'm a bougie bitch and I like comfort and I don't like bugs and I, you know what I mean? And I, I'm a city girl. It's like, That's this part. So it's an [00:08:00] experiment for me because I'm very much trying to figure out, wait, is this something that I really want or is this something that I've just idealized?
And once I got here, I realized like, oh, you know what? I actually, um, do want like, I don't know, working plumbing or something like that, you know?
Kyley: right?
Eva: So like, as we were recording, so we've been talking for a while now, Kylie, but like just about a couple minutes ago, I just got like a whiff of like poop smell because I think every once in a while , there'll just be like, the plumbing in this thing is just like not working well.
And it's just like, okay, yeah, I can just like smell poop sometimes. And that's like not okay with me.
Kyley: No, no, that's not okay.
Eva: okay. So it's like the whole Airstream situation, but it's also being an unknown territory. Also, starting this new partnership with Eliza. I've gone, I saw myself this week go into full hypervigilance of being like, I'm going to get into productivity mode.
And like I have this whole list of stuff that I, that I'm gonna do to like, get [00:09:00] ready, get comfortable to get everything right. And it's, it's, it's a little maddening actually.
Kyley: yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly what happens is like the the maddening feeling of like, okay, if I can just get it, it's like when this control part gets real loud for me, it's always like, okay, if I can just get everything in order, then it'll be in order. Then I can
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and of course like, I don't know, it, it's, it never, you never get to the place where you relax, right?
There's just like, there's just contin. There's always more things to control. You know what I mean? Um
Eva: what I have found is because I've moved so much within the past couple of years, what I've actually found is that actually I will relax over time. Either way, even if I, if I don't get all these things done. Because what happens is [00:10:00] it's just, especially I think with moving or something, but it's just time.
Like it is trust, like trusting, like it, like if I just trusted and I wasn't, like I would still get some of the things done. But also what would happen is even if I didn't get them all done six months from now, I would just be more comfortable just because it's been six months and I wouldn't have had to like effort so much.
And that is like a big, going back to what you're talking about, trust is like, , I've seen it happen. So that has, that has been helpful. Where I've been like, oh, I know this is a pattern that like, I get in this, this mode when every time I move to a new place, um, and things that bothered me, like bother me now, honestly, I can feel, say with confidence, like, just are not gonna bother me in six months
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: I don't, you know, because maybe I'm, I'm like settled in and I'm like, oh, yeah, actually I am safe here.
Kyley: Oh, that's really interesting. Cuz then I feel like my brain is going like, wow. Because you're kind of speaking to like the, the fa the [00:11:00] control phase is also just like part of the process to surrender,
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: right? Because I can be a perfectionist around like, no, the goal is to surrender, da, like stop being a control freak.
But I feel like what you're speaking to is like, I will eventually get myself to a softer. Surrender, like, like control is just part of the cycle. Um,
Eva: Yeah, actually. And I think it's helpful to see that, because then I don't have to be be like, something's wrong or doing it wrong. And
Kyley: you try to control the fact that
Eva: Exactly, exactly. Which is what happens. Cause what really? It's like the second arrow, you're, you're like, you're judging yourself or being so controlling and then you like, like, feel like shit because you feel like, oh, like I should be more chill or blah, blah, blah.
But,
Kyley: Oh my god, I feel so called. I think I'm calling myself out, but I feel so called out right now.
Eva: uh, yeah. Say more.
Kyley: just, uh, so like the theme of my life lately, I feel like [00:12:00] it just keeps being surrender right. In all sorts of different, like, it's not even Gucci really know it's a theme when it's like coming at you from all these different angles, like business, motherhood, body, like, um, A d h D food house, like everywhere it's coming from is like, no bitch surrender
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And um, and my experience has been like, well, actually a lot of confusion of like, that's a great idea. I, I don't understand. How do you ever do, you know, that experience or there's like this sense of like, okay, I'm holding, I'm holding on. And the goal is just if I let go, I will be happier or I will be less wound up or whatever.
And I'm like, and I don't, I don't actually know how to open my hand. I see, I see what I'm doing. I see that it's just me holding on and I could let go. And also, uh,
Eva: I don't know how. Yeah, that's such a good point. I, I think I've [00:13:00] also recently kind of been there too, , so
Kyley: so then I've been like really annoyed at myself cause I'm like, just fucking open your hand. Like, just, just let go and you will stop being in this loop of suffering. Uh, So, yeah, so it's like the, the, the, the resounding theme is surrender and then there's this real confusion that's like, that's a great idea.
I don't get how it works. And then a lot of then frustration and atte basically attempt to control the fact that I'm in control mode.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. You see, you can all see why I was at sad potato. Well, you were stink on the boat.
Eva: Uh, I mean, that's a good point though. So, so what, I don't know if you have the answer because you know, maybe you're like in the middle, in the middle of it right now, but like, what does, what does, what does one do when they actually don't know how to surrender?
Kyley: I mean, it helps if Eve Eva's one of your best friends, highly
Eva: Helps if you have other, if you have other
Kyley: 10 outta 10. 10 outta [00:14:00] 10 make Eva one of your best friends
Eva: Yeah. Or you can just hire me as your coach. That's possible too.
Kyley: That's also true. Yeah. Yeah. Um, . So I think, well, I think that's part of why I'm appreciating you pointing out that like sometimes control like that is its own phase.
And like perhaps, perhaps I've been softened, perhaps like, I don't know, the idea of intention and prayer, right. Of like, okay. I like, one of the things I've been saying is like, I want to be willing to surrender because I can feel that I, I can feel my own resistance to surrender again in all ways. Um, and I have been kinda like practicing saying like, okay, I want to be willing to surrender.
Like, I like at least like, let's like get on the track
Eva: Yeah, yeah,
Kyley: you know? Um, I also think, um,
I think for me the practice of feeling [00:15:00] my feelings is always where surrender happens for me. . And so part of how I've witnessed that I, part of the big way that I think I've known that something's out of kilter is that I've actually been having a really hard time feeling my feelings. I've been like really in that kind of like buffering, anxious, buzzing space that I used to know really well.
It doesn't show up for me that often. And so it, it's been consistent enough that I'm like, and I have, and I have felt like confused about how to feel my feelings, which is just like usually not a thing for me that's like kind of my specialty, you know? Um, and so I think you made a really good point when I was talking to you about that of like, you know, you need space.
And I think control for me is often about like, crowding out space. Like I, right, it's like control doesn't leave room for space cuz control is constantly buzzing and thinking and doing and, and, um, [00:16:00] and then, and then, Being upset that there's no space, but it's also designed to not have any space. So I think again, it's, I, I do think creating space helps because I, I, I think for me it does come back to like feeling what's in my body and what's in my heart.
So, um, at least that's where the relief keeps coming. Like when I can drop in to feel my feelings and when I can drop into, like, experience my body, that's when I get a relief and I feel like, oh, okay. I think I just like opened my hand a millimeter to go back to the hand grasping metaphor. Um,
Eva: Yeah. One thing that I think, so to connect this all together, I feel, feel like something else that offers space is the not judging one's self for being controlling like the comp. I think instead of. I think it's not our go-to instinct, but to be compassionate towards the part that like, there's a reason that we are being controlling.
And so [00:17:00] that actually has been my experience here in Austin is like, oh yeah, I totally understand why I am like in this really controlling, like hyper-focused place. And there's a way in which I'm like, if I give myself space for that or permission in some way, um, it, you know, not, not surprisingly, actually has less of a hold on me.
Kyley: Oh yeah. I really love that. And I also think another layer of compassion that showed up for me that's been helpful was basically, um, realizing, oh, this is hard cuz it's hard. And also in particular noticing like, um, the reminder that. Racist capitalist patriarchy sucks, right? That like, we like this, this is often like a flip thing for me, and it's like this intellectual thing of like, oh yeah, we live, we have built something shitty.
But it landed for me recently, like in my body in a very [00:18:00] like, loving way that was like, I am trying to create something that doesn't exist, right? Like I am trying to, I'm trying to thrive as a, like spiritual being who like wants to like lay on rocks and commune with nature in the world of like, in a world that doesn't, that is, is is not only not built to support that, but it's actually built to separate you from that.
And so the fact that. Like, oh, do I feel exhausted by trying to alternatively school my kid? Because I don't think that the school system is set up to support him while also building a business that changes people's lives, while also like investigating my own inner everything all the time, while also communing with nature, while also occasionally doing laundry and paying bills.
Like, oh, is that a lot? Yeah, it's a fucking, is that really too much? Because it actually is too much. And that [00:19:00] awareness that like, it feels like too much cuz it is too much, has also really helped bring in compassion, which what I'm realizing now is compassion feels like an on-ramp to surrender. Um, because then it has then, because then the energy shifted from me of like, oh, I need to fix this.
And like, it's my fault that it feels overwhelming to like, oh no, this is overwhelming
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: That's, yeah. I'm so. Happy that you said that. And I think it's so beautifully put this idea of like, even as you were talking about that I felt a melting of sorts of like almost a melting, but also like a sense of pride. Cuz it's the acknowledgement of like, actually, you know, we're trying to do something any, not just me and you, but any person who is like trying to follow their heart and um, and is vulnerable enough to be like, this is something that I desire. And, and, and that's why it matters so much.
And I'm just, you know, [00:20:00] and there's these systems in place, it's like, give yourself a fucking break. There's something beautiful in what you're trying to do and like, yeah, no wonder you're tired and like, it's not your fault. Do you know what I mean?
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes. It's not it. The fact that it's hard doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong.
Eva: Yeah. And maybe it means that you're doing something right. Not that I'm saying like, you know, things need to be hard, but meaning like it, I think sometimes it can be a sign that, like, it just means that you're pushing towards your dreams.
Kyley: in it. You're in it. Like, yeah. This is something, I might have even said this in the podcast before, but, uh, I have this, this really great therapist and he, when, you know, I was recently like, I just feel like I'm always, you know, I was kind of like, I was kind of like annoyed at myself and I was just like, I just feel like I'm always in here being like, this is all a lot and my kids are hard and owning a business and trying to do it with my kids hard and blah, blah blah.
And he was like, yeah, hard things are hard. he said it more compassionately than [00:21:00] that, but he was just like, yeah, hard things are hard and like maybe you're asking a lot of yourself to do all of the things and then also ask them to ask you to. basically. Maybe it's not a fair thing to ask yourself to do all of these things and then also ask yourself to experience them as easy.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. But I love what you said about compassion being an on-ramp to surrendering, that definitely feels like a nice, like two puzzle pieces that fit nicely together.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: Um,
Kyley: yeah. Cuz surrender if, like, if you're in, really, if you're in like really big control mode, which I think, you know, we experience as like anxiety or overthinking or like all the, like, all of a sudden I feel like constant like busyness. Um, if you're in that kind of graspy control mode, to go straight to surrender isn't like that.
That I think it, I don't know. For me it brings [00:22:00] up the, like, I forget, I don't, I don't, I forget how to surrender,
Eva: Right. And also I feel like you're like in, if you're in that like tight caught up mode, chances are there's a lot of judgment going on. Meaning like you're in just this mind whirling mind space of like being hard on yourself essentially. Like something's wrong. And so you're like trying to fix it and there's judgment and there it's not, it's not like it's never positive.
You're never like loving yourself so much and you're like, I'm stoked on myself. When you're like in a moment, when you're in a moment of like control, it's,
Kyley: a good point.
Eva: yeah. And so I think the judgment of the self and like how you are and how things are is also a blockage to, um, surrender.
Kyley: yes, yes, yes. So yeah, compassion helps like remove that barrier. And I'm also just seeing it as like a, like a transitory, like a transition step, you know, like, um, yeah. I have like a half more [00:23:00] metaphor in my head. You get the idea. Transition
Eva: Can we talk about trust for a second?
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: So, seeing as this is a spiritual podcast, this is definitely not the first conversation that we've had about trust. I feel like it comes up
Kyley: They like their official voice there that you just used.
Eva: Um, I think I selfishly wanna come back to this because I want to be reminded of trust and that I can trust because what you said earlier was just like really spot on for me.
And, and I think for anyone who is like, you know, if you're, if you're stressed out or if you're in a. State of fear. If you feel fear about something or lack about something and you're in control mode and you can't surrender, it's because we don't trust something. And I don't know, for me, where I am right now is, you know, I've blown up my life [00:24:00] because I had a strong feeling that I wanted. There are three things that I'm really focused on right now, which is like community communing with nature and communing with God. And I was like, those are just like, it's very easy for me to pinpoint, like, that's it for me. Like that's, those are the top three. And like, I, I don't know, there's something, there's something very clear to me about that.
And um, and I felt like I was kind of in a way guided here to this weird place that I never expected myself to be. And. So I wanna trust that, I guess, and I guess, I don't know if there's a question in there, but this idea of God, how do I keep trusting when I don't or, or it's like how I do trust actually why I'm here, but I also feel Hmm.[00:25:00] Fear at the same time.
Kyley: yeah. Like surrender. The, the reason you can surrender is because you trust, right? Like that's the whole thing of like a trust fall
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: like your, like, you know,
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: that you're like camp is that you? , like you can surrender, you can close your eyes and fall backwards cuz you trust that your like fellow camp mates will hold you.
And so I think that's what's like beautiful when we're able to surrender is that it, we do experience like the reward of like, it's like we surrender and then we're taken care of and it's like, oh, okay. in some ways the gift of surrender is that is the trust, like trust is the required ingredient.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: But I feel like it's also the gift of it because then you can trust more because you had that experience of surrender. Um, but I think what I [00:26:00] hear you speaking to is like how, how do we hold ourselves when we need to, when the invitation is to surrender and trust, but we don't really trust all the
Eva: Yeah. Yes. But even as I, like as you're saying that, and I, as I, as I asked the question, I was like, oh, I feel like I'm. Calling myself out a little bit because I'm like, oh yeah, but have I done anything actually to cultivate more trust in a higher power recently? Meaning, so like when I, when I like, like surrender to something, I think it's because I am setting an intention with myself that says like, there's something in my body and in my mind that goes, okay, I am willing to let go and I'm willing to like trust fall, I guess, even though I think trust falls can be kind of like , um, like totally annoying or whatever, but like, yeah, okay, let's [00:27:00] just go with this theme here.
Like, I'm willing to trust fall, but there's an intention set forth where I'm in intending to live my life that way. And really what I've just realized, like I haven't been doing that at all. I mean, I have been
Kyley: move, I do feel like driving across the country to move into an air, like you didn't, you're not exactly like hiding or like,
Eva: I think what happened was like, I was in a moment of like listening and it got me and, and helped me set out the plan, lay out the plan, and then I like follow the plan. But now that I've been here, I've just forgotten that like, oh, that's the thing that I need to continuously do again, because I was stuck in control.
And I, and when you're in control, it's like you forget that you have that option. You forget that you tap into a higher power. You forget that you hand it over to God essentially. And I haven't been doing that at all because I've been so busy trying to tick off my to-do list.
Kyley: Yeah. And I think what's hard is that when [00:28:00] you're in control mode, when the control, because like truthfully, we are always a little bit in surrender and control all at the same time, right? But like, when the control is louder, I think like something I've noticed the past couple of weeks, like my really, my biggest spiritual practice is feeling my feelings.
Like I do occasion, like I do regularly wake up early to like sit in silence. But I don't do a lot of ritual. I don't actually have a regular meditation practice. Like, I really think for me, my most sacred thing is like my willingness to feel my feelings. Um, and that those are, that's one of the biggest ways that I just experience this like kind of transcendence.
Right? Um,
Eva: pause you for a second? So like, do you still actively go into the Akash, like the Akashi records, or is that now just interweaved into your life and that like, you don't,
Kyley: good question that I feel like.
Eva: you don't even need that anymore. You're just always constantly, you know, like getting, getting the vibes
Kyley: Got it.
Eva: from your, from your
Kyley: [00:29:00] such a big question because of course you're asking this now because, anyway, it's been rumbling.
Um, I'm about to, and I'm about to like relaunch single sessions and it's tied up in the answer to this question. So I'm laughing that you're asking this question now. Um, but my feeling, and this has been how I have felt for a long time now, is that all energy work and magic is like a portal. all to same, to to like, to the infinite.
So I almost see it as like, um, like you walk into a foyer and like, it might be like really big and fancy. It might even seem like it's a mansion. You're like, this is the, this is the akasha foyer. And then there's one that's like, and this is the reiki foyer. And this is, and all of them are actually just a portal into this like wild, expansive, infinite magic where there are no limits, there are no [00:30:00] rules, there is no like required entry or required prayer or whatever.
Although you can use ritual cuz ritual is fun. And um, uh, and sometimes we're in the en in that foyer and it feels like, um, and, and, and, and it can feel like, oh, this is it. Like this is magic. This is the akasha, this is, this is the, these four walls are like the limits of this, you know, limitless magic. Um, and also I think that's just like a, uh, Almost like a Hollywood town, like those like fake towns and movies.
Like that's not, that's not actually the real deal, even as you experience it because it's, you pop the way I think of it a lot as like popping through to the other side, right? Like, so the Akash becomes your portal into, or reiki or whatever your magic is, becomes the portal into like this, like infinite well of magic.
[00:31:00] Does that make sense?
Eva: Yeah. I mean, wait, let me, so instead of saying, so you're saying like, oh yeah. So you walk into this foyer, or like into this whole town that you think is like it, but then all of a sudden all the walls fall down and you realize, oh, it's just part of the infinite, is that what you mean?
Kyley: Kind of. And so, I mean, yes, that is what I mean. And that like, um, and it's not that the foyer is false, it's just only a, it's, it's
Eva: It's one of the many thousands of different ways in in one, in which
Kyley: right. And that, and. And it's, and it's like, and really what we're all, what, you know, and it's, and it's a portal to this like big well of infinite magic. And so you can use any of the portals and also you, yourself are a portal. And so like, we can, and for some of us, I think, um, we, ritual can be a really beautiful way to like walk us into the process of being in touch with this infinite magic.
And the ritual might [00:32:00] be a prayer of the Akasha records or Reiki symbols or,
Eva: or a meditation. Yeah.
Kyley: or meditation or like your ancestor, you know, prayers or whatever. Um, but it's not, it, yeah, it's not a finite, it's not a finite thing I guess.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um, so I don't think there's a dis So for me now there's not a distinction from.
Eva: Right. Yeah. Cause I think at one, yeah, I think sometimes you also just get to a point where you just drop all of it and it's just not, I don't, uh, that's, I was gonna say it's not necessary anymore, but I feel like there's, I don't mean that like in a pretentious way. Um, I do think that that's true. Meaning then, then you like, so, you know, for instance, let's just say meditation is a way in at first, but at maybe at one point you get to a point where you can, that that's like a, that is a four Fourier, or, and, but then it's just like, you don't, you can like drop [00:33:00] off. You can just drop off and you don't need that anymore.
Yeah.
Kyley: Yes. And just because you don't need it doesn't mean you don't use it. Right. Um, but uh, cuz I think that's important. Cause I think sometimes we can play a game where we're like, well, I don't technically need this, so I shouldn't use it anymore. And it's like, no, like Terra cards are great, like use them.
Right. But, um, uh, , you know, I don't need more than one pairing knife, but I have a bo, you know what I mean? Like, uh, Um, and, uh, so, so, but I do, I do have journey. So I do have moments where I'm like sitting to answer your question. Like, I will wake up in the morning and sometimes I just sit and I drink my tea, and I just kind of open up what feels like magic in my heart.
It's just like I kind of open up to a transcendent experience. I, uh, it's hard to describe, but it, it feels like a certain kind of way of being alive. And I just [00:34:00] drop into it and I just kind of sit still in that energy. And that's, uh, and sometimes it's just a fat experience and sometimes it's like a journey where my grandmother shows up or I ask a question, um, or sometimes I buffer in and out and like, you know, um,
But I also don't, I do that sometimes in the morning. I do it sometimes at night. I do it sometimes, not at all for weeks. Like I don't have any, um, you know, I, I do it sometimes while I am in the woods, you know, it's, um, Lucy goosey.
Eva: Yeah. And also, sometimes you'll just have your ancestors talking to you in the middle of the day when you're making like peanut
Kyley: Oh yeah. That happens. All that happens all the time. Yes. That's al separately. I also just have like a bunch of chatterbox
Eva: right. But I think that's kind of what I mean when I say like, that's the infinite, that's what just always there.
Kyley: Yes, yes, yes, yes, [00:35:00] yes. Yeah. Sometimes I like intentionally seek out transcendent experiences. Sometimes they seek me out and also sometimes I'm just like chatting with my grandmother in the kitchen.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Okay. So I think we diverged a little bit.
Kyley: those is a fun divergence.
Eva: Yeah, , we were talking about trust though, and I guess I was talking about being intentional in giving it to God, essentially.
Kyley: Hmm. Yeah.
Eva: But even that I have like, again, I can intellectualize it and be like, Hey, that's how, how. But like, and I, I can understand intellectually though, that's a good idea, but also sometimes that's also really hard to do.
Kyley: Oh, and that's what I was speaking to when we went off our little jaunt is, um, the times where I like, because I've been in a kind of extra wound up these past couple of weeks. [00:36:00] The idea, like the, the idea of, it's like I forgot again. I had this forgetting how it was. . Okay. There's something I do here, there's something I do that makes this better and I like, would like wake cuz like I did stick cuz waking up early is one of my like, again, best tricks,
Eva: Wait, is
Kyley: would like wake up is is like, it's just cuz it's like a nice quiet, you know, or I'm not making sandwiches for the whatever. And, uh, I, but I would like wake up and I would have my tea and I would do the same like, like things that I always do and I would just be like, yeah, it's not working
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: right?
Like, , like, I'm still in control mode. Even though I wasn't using that language, I was just like in this like buffering, like stomach, ch like, just like I didn't, I didn't feel the way I wanted to feel, right. I was just in. Um, and so I think that's what's, I don't know, I guess like tricky about [00:37:00] trust and surrendering all of this is, I don't know, we just have these moments of like, I literally forget.
I forgot I, that's like, that's the only way I would describe. It's like I forgot how to surrender and I knew like, something's missing. There's some missing ingredient. Um, and I think, and I think it was in part, you're, you're saying really beautifully, like you can offer it up to God or source or whoever you describe it. But sometimes I think that can feel really intellectual and not embodied, especially when we're in control mode.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: And I guess I'm curious for you, and maybe that's okay cuz maybe that's just the beginning of like, that's the prayer and so you set the intention, but I'm curious how you navigate when kind of offering it up feels just really intellectual.
Does that make sense of the
Eva: it does. Yeah. I mean, I think we're both asking each other the same question. Ann it and it's helpful because I actually turns out I do have some answers [00:38:00] that are becoming more alive for me as we're having this conversation. But I do like what you said about how like maybe you have a hard time, but you set the intention.
And I do think that like once we set the intention somewhere down the line, it happens. I also think we were talking about this just on our, just like through messaging the other day, this idea of like, you're ready when you're ready, . And sometimes it's like, I may not be ready yet, but I think, I think sometimes it requires a humbling of some sort.
Like something has to happen and it, not all the time, but something needs to happen where I'm like, humbled. basically where I've shown like that, when I say humbled, I mean like I've shown that like I was being arrogant or stupid or or, um, or just that I thought I knew when I was, that I was wrong. Do you know what I mean?
And so, or the rock bottom thing, or like really struggling. Those, those things can be a gift sometimes because it's like your perspective just shifts and that suddenly like your [00:39:00] eyes are wide open and you see something clearly and you're like, oh, wait, I, something. It's like something shakes you awake essentially, and you're like, oh, I'm willing.
I, like, it's easier for me to surrender now.
Kyley: you know, I think too, rock bottom can be I think a like scary framing. But I think, I think there's also another way to put it, which is like, you just have a moment where you realize, wait, this isn't working
Eva: Mm-hmm. , right?
Kyley: You know, you just have this moment of like, this is unsustainable or unacceptable or like not something I can continue to exist in, and therefore I'm willing for it to be different.
Eva: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: is different than, therefore I need to fix it. Right? It's that, I think that's the difference. It's like, okay, this isn't working. I gotta fix it. This isn't working. I gotta fix it. This isn't working. I gotta fix it. And then there's a moment of like, this is not working, and also I'm [00:40:00] ready for it to be different.
And those are actually two different, those are two different things.
Eva: Yeah. And I don't know if you experienced it this way, but like when you say that this idea of like, okay, you realize, oh, this isn't working to me, there's also like something humbling about that too.
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: Do you feel that way? I feel like, I mean, there's also something not. on the other end of the spectrum, it's like actually very self-loving to be like, to acknowledge like, oh, this isn't working.
Like it's something like I am no longer available to try and like force this to happen, so therefore I'm open to it another way. But I also think there's something like, yeah, humbling about when I see something that's like not working because it, again, it's me seeing that I was just trying to control the situation.
Kyley: Yeah. You know what's funny is I think I have like a really positive association with like the word humbling. Because when you're saying that, [00:41:00] I'm really feeling how much compassion there is in, in, in, in being humbled for me because what you're speaking this, this experience of like, oh, I can't, this is not, this is, this is basically this moment of.
Oh, this isn't working. Cuz it's not actually my job to fix like it's God's job or it's the universe's job. And so the humility is like, feels like it's full of the compassion of like my laughing ancestors
Eva: Oh yeah. Humility is like my favorite
Kyley: Yeah, right.
Eva: it's, it's definitely a positive, often hilarious experience, but it's that, it's the vibe that I'm always going for when I realize that like, I am teeny tiny and existence and God and, and nature and source are like huge and I don't have to like, I don't know shit.
And I mean that in a good way. And I don't have to control everything.
Kyley: yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, what if this wasn't my job [00:42:00] to
Eva: It's like so freeing. It's so liberating. It's so, uh, heart opening, I think. Yeah.
Kyley: you know, when I had that experience, when I had my drug free mushroom trip, which if listeners have not listened to that episode, please go back cuz it
Eva: a two-parter, so definitely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , check
Kyley: if it's new information to you, like a year and a half ago, I had like the, the most mystical experience I've ever had where I had a like, spontaneous, what essentially I later reflected on felt like a, I guess a psilocybin trip without, cuz I was laughing at seals.
That's really what prompted it. Um, and uh, um, but one of the like phrases I kept hearing in the beginning of that trip was, um, it's never what you think it
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And that's come back to me a bunch of times of, um, Me thinking I need to figure it out, or [00:43:00] thinking that I am figuring it out and just like barreling down on a pathway and like either hit a dead end or finally surrender or like su like get like, you know, kicked into the left or the right.
Like I, I, it's like the blessing comes in and the, or the answer comes in or the solution comes in and it's literally never what I actually thought I needed. Um, which can be like, oh, you thought you wanted an orange and we're giving you an apple. But it can also be like, the way you were solving this problem was entirely upside down.
And what you thought was the nose was the foot. Like you just didn't get it. And you, do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing when you're talking about the humility of like, oh, I dunno, anything.
Eva: yeah, yeah.
Kyley: so, it, I, yeah. Yeah.
Eva: And that's like a wonderful thing to remember and I'm glad we're having this conversation. This is why I wanted to have this conversation because reminding me, I'm like, it's, I'm a giddy with the, the, the [00:44:00] reminder and the hilariousness of like, yeah, I don't know anything. It's cool, it's okay. Like I don't have to control everything.
Like what if I could just relax and, and, and in that relaxation, I feel like my whole chest opens up, my, like arms open up and I'm like, okay, like I am willing to see then like show me, like show me. I'm willing to kind of like play along and listen to the messages and the breadcrumbs and go in that direction and like, but when previously, I don't think I could have even seen it cause I was hyper focused on like, um, making sure I got all the groceries for the week or something.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Um. . I think the thing that I'm also just really reflecting on is how when we're in that hyper fixated, it's like, okay, so say we're using the grocery example, like you get like super fixated on like the [00:45:00] groceries and get us all the problems, the groceries, and I don't know, I guess I'm just, I feel like I'm on a broken record, but I just keep coming back to this idea of how confusing it can feel like I've been, I feel like I've been through this rodeo a million times and also every time I forget how to surrender, I'm confused all over again.
Do you know what I mean? And how Um, I don't know. I wish I had something poignant to say it, but I feel like I just keep going back to that because I think I'm really stuck with some awe and wonder at like how confusing. How confusing it felt, but also what I was looking for was the release of actually just being able to feel instead of holding.
Eva: Hmm. Yeah,
Kyley: One other thing I wanna reflect is, um, Lately I've been really trying to honor paradox. I mean, not lately, that's been a theme for a little while, but specifically the [00:46:00] paradox of things being really great and hard at the same time.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Like, I wrote an email earlier in the, like last week about villain era, and I was just talking about how much of my twenties was me just being a fucking anxious wreck
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and how like really, like how much I squeezed joy out of my life.
And also what I wrote in that email was like, and also I was really happy. I did all sorts of amazing things and I had great friends and like I had a good, like, I was happy and also I was in a lot of suffering. And it is important to acknowledge like both coexisting and that, um, that also feels like the theme of the past couple of probably maybe the past two weeks is like there has been this rumbling like.
Control and anxiety and dis and discomfort, that has been much louder than usual. And it hasn't actually consumed my existence. It has been [00:47:00] unpleasant. And I have been like, I would like this to be different. And also it hasn't been the entirety. It hasn't like, it hasn't been the entirety of the lens that I have seen things through.
Um, and that has also felt really beautiful because I think I used to, when things were hard, be like, well, this is it. Everything hyper, I then hyper focus on the way things were hard. Do you know what I mean? That was part of the control was like, this is hard and we have to just put all our energy into looking at how hard it is and then maybe that's how we'll make it not hard.
It's not how it works,
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: there's been this way that the past, I would say probably the past two weeks have been, have had this kind of like louder rumbling. and also I have been having a lot of fun and very, very, very joyful. And like for example, it's funny, I'm talking about control and anxiety. And then this is the same time that I've been launching [00:48:00] villain era.
I have never been in more surrender of a launch in my entire life. Everything about the launch for villain era feels like simple and fun and hilarious. And I am not like, can't even muster an iota of stress about how many people will sign up for it. So, um, I think that's also worth recognizing that, I don't know, all these things are happening at the same
Eva: Yeah. And it's so good to get outta black and white mode, like all or nothing, you know, like that whole thing. Um, when. Really can see clearly, oh, two things, two opposing things are existing at one time. Yeah. Which is, I think we talked about this last week on the podcast. Maybe this idea of like me crying at, you know, basically I feel like a lot of my convers, well a lot of my conversation when I first got to Austin was like, I'm feel like I'm doing everything right.
I'm following my heart. I'm living like with integrity, I'm living my truth. And also, this is fucking hard. It's like those two things are happening at one same time. And also I'm here and I'm [00:49:00] like in this like wanting, I don't know, just this hyperactive, proactive state of wanting to get things all together.
Um, and also just having moments of like, like this week I've had moments of like, oh, I'm exactly where I need to be. And that has felt like, it's just, it's just so interesting that those two things can exist at the same time.
Kyley: Yeah, and I feel like being able to witness and hold that paradox feels like a big part of surrender.
Eva: Mm. Yeah. Yeah,
Kyley: right? Because control wants to make things black and white and right and wrong. Um, but for me, that willingness to be like, oh, this is hard, joyful. At the same time, that's an, that actually feels like, like compassion.
The willingness to ha hold, allow nuance and complexity and paradox feels like another way of, um, on-ramp, on just surrender for me.
Eva: [00:50:00] yeah, yeah. Um, okay. I'm gonna add one more thing and I think we probably should wrap it up. It's getting pretty late where you are. Uh oh. Just that, you know, this idea of like, trust, um, and setting the intention to give it to God. I mean, I think you can actually be. Active and and intentional about that.
It's like when you see yourself in the day, sometimes it's hard to catch yourself actually when you're in control mode. That's the thing though. But if you are like lucky enough or aware enough to catch yourself, that's a moment where you can, and you can tell, because there's a lot of tension in that moment, probably. You can actually like be like, I'm, I think it's something that happens in your body. It's intellectual and it's in your mind though, where you're gonna be. I'm just gonna, like, I'm still gonna show up, but I'm gonna let go to how this ends up. Um, but I think you asked me earlier, like, you know, what's helpful, and again, this is a practice that I'm gonna [00:51:00] integrate back into my own life because I forgot, is just to commune with God more often.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: like, you know, sure it can be in the morning when it's quiet and you've got your tea and whatever, whatever. Or it can also just be like, you know, in the middle of driving or when you're really fucking pissed off and all of those moments of like, Yeah. I think there's just something about being in connection with source that's like, um, and like continuing to cultivate that relationship that makes it easier for me anyway, to trust
Kyley: Yeah, I love that. And the other thing that came in for me, as you were saying that is, um, there are no rule, there's no conditions on surrender. And in particular, I think I sometimes expect, I, I make the condition on surrender that I stop being afraid.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And that like, because control and fear are so [00:52:00] linked, I then make the story of like, well, I have to stop being afraid so I can surrender.
And maybe that's why I've been so confused cuz I'm like, well, I don't really get how to stop being afraid cuz I'm fucking scared because this, there's so much going on and blah, blah, blah. And what I, as you were speaking, what also came in for me was the reminder that I can bring fear with me and s.
Eva: Yes. Oh my God,
Kyley: You know, like, okay, like hop in the backpack.
We're, we're surrendering, you're with us fear. Um, and that
Eva: That it doesn't always have to feel like this. Yeah. Perfect. Awe-inspiring moment again. The And having paradox.
Kyley: yeah. Like, okay, I am scared and I'm gonna let
Eva: Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eva: Okay. One more thing that I do wanna add, because I think this is, this might be a, a good end note for this idea of surrender, is that like, and this is something that I have access to right now, so I feel grateful for that.
It's the, the belief and [00:53:00] the remembering that like all of this is love, like God and source and reality. and this whole fucking thing that none of us understand. That it, that consciousness, whatever you go on and call it, is so is, is is a form of love that's so great that like we couldn't even comprehend with our minds.
Kyley: Mm
Eva: it's, and I think if, when I remember that, I think I forget that sometimes, but it's like, oh yeah, I really think that, like I'm not a fan of like Gabby Bernstein, but she has that book. The Universe has your back.
Kyley: mm.
Eva: I really do think, not just like has your back, but she's like a benevolent source of love that's so much that like you, we couldn't even hold or contain it.
It's like, it's like when we do actually feel it, it's so overwhelming in those rare moments where you're just like, your whole heart is opening and you're like, oh my God, like.
Kyley: Yeah, you're then you're laughing at seals and the next [00:54:00] thing you know you're on a three hour trip.
Eva: exactly. It's that feeling of like, that what mushrooms does do, it's like, it opens up your heart so much and you're like, oh, wow. The capacity that's available in life is just unlimited. Um, yeah, I think that's, um, I think something that can help me trust.
Kyley: Mm. I really, really, really love that.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. Thanks. That's a good ending note.
Eva: Do you wanna share your joy?
Kyley: Yeah. Okay. Um, so I am in Maine. My kids are on school break. So I came up to Maine, um, to visit my family and my parents have two dogs and my kids and the dogs. Oh my God. I just cannot,
Eva: overload,
Kyley: oh my God. I'm also shadowing my, the, the grandparents. My parents were so great. Was so great with the kids and the kids [00:55:00] and the dogs like, and the like, I don't know, who loves each other more, like the dogs loves the kid.
The kids. It's just like this, like total love fest and they all have their own little dynamic. Like my son loves to go outside with them and he'll just be outside like hours playing with the dogs and my daughter, or the first night we were coloring and like Millie, one of the, my parents' dog like came and just like flopped in between and like laid down on the coloring book and birdie was like, This afternoon I came downstairs and she was like, Bri was like literally jumping up and down and was like, oh, this was what happened. Bri fell and she was very sad and was crying and the dog was just like beside himself, like trying to like, like get at her and like he like literally couldn't calm down till he kissed her.
And then she was like in hysterics. And then my son is just like, it's just really sweet. He just is like, loves to like, just like he's like goes into total caretaker mode and is like, oh, do they have to go to the [00:56:00] bathroom? Do they need to play? Like, it's just like,
Eva: Animals and kids,
Kyley: follow them around. And you know, as I've mentioned on the show, Desi has a lot of, you know, hyperactivity and there's just this really cool way that like he and the dogs just commune and. , there's a way that it mellows him like nothing else. That's really cool to see. Like we do have to sometimes be like, okay, you know, like take it down and watch that the dog doesn't like, you know, they're PS one of a puppy.
It was like, you know, but watching him, I don't know, he's just like a real nature kid and so watching him lock in with them is just, I don't know. So dogs and kids.
Eva: yeah. Dogs and kids, and that makes a lot of sense. I think that's actually really cool because I think it really speaks to. The healing power of animals
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: on, on, on people in general.
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: Uh,
Kyley: Absolutely. Yeah. How about you? My friend was bringing you joy.
Eva: Um, [00:57:00] actually two things. I think one, which I alluded to earlier, which is like, uh, I, I would like to spend some time at one, some point just talking more about how my experience here unfolds in like this weird situation that I'm in or say unconventional situation maybe.
But, um, but it started off rocky and I think I ca Yeah, that's, I called Kylie two weeks ago, like basically having a meltdown and, and, and you so wisely. Were like, yeah, this is it. Like this experience that you're having is part of the whole like healing redemption process. Like, it's gonna be fucking messy.
Like it's part of the eat, pray, love, you know.
Kyley: Yeah, right. I think exactly like I'm supposed moment. I was like, yeah, I think that's what.
Eva: Yeah, it was, yeah, it started off Rocky and my, and I was actually like freaking out. I was like, I don't know if I should be here. Did I make a total fucking mistake? Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, [00:58:00] I was talking to Kylie about like, you know, anyway, yeah, like if this doesn't work out and I'm, what's my gonna be my plan B?
I was already thinking about all that stuff. And since then, as like I've worked out some things, I'm like, oh wait, I, I, this is what I signed up for. Like, and, and it's giving me what I wanted and I am get, getting to experience the things that I want to experience, which is like one of them just being fucking outside, like
Kyley: hmm.
Eva: so much more.
I just can't believe how important that is or how, like that is just worth everything to me. Just that being able to be outside more often. I know that sounds, I don't know. Anyway, also, it, it was like, 80 degrees today, and I was in like shorts and, and a tank top, and that was fucking awesome.
Kyley: Oh, I love that.
Eva: you know, I'm, I'm a big thing about weather, but I will say the second thing that just came to mind, um, as I'm working with Eliza, I think in my relationship with Adam, [00:59:00] there are some things that I liked about myself that were actually perceived as a problem with Adam and with, and I'm realizing with the lights and then what I'm really talking about is like, I think I have this very proactive nature where I like want to like, yeah, I'm just proactive about things.
And I'm like, who wouldn't love that about me? Like, that's awesome. I love this thing about me. I'm very helpful, I'm very supportive. Like I can get shit done. But I think oftentimes with Adam, that would feel like, and I don't mean to say that this was a wrong thing, there is no right or wrong, but I think and understandably like that for the wrong personality, that can feel overwhelming.
And I get that. And so, but here in this setting, and I think I, I don't know, it's something about work. I just love working with women too. I think there's something about that. But my proactiveness is appreciated and I'm coming into this being like, wait, am I like being too proactive? Like, am I in your way?
And I'm, and I'm doing this whole like, I'm self-conscious thing and Eliza's just like, are you kidding me? Like, this is fucking amazing and I see you and this is a [01:00:00] beautiful thing and let's like celebrate it. Which is like, so I'm like, this is, that's huge for me. Like anytime it's huge. When something that you like about yourself, uh, is appreciated, I guess.
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: Especially when previously maybe it was something that you felt like you had to tone down. It just shows you like the kind, like the right sit when you're in the right situation and the right partnership. It who you are works.
Kyley: Thrives. Oh, oh, I love that so much. I really, really, really, really love that. And I also love like, entrepreneurship can be this weird, lonely journey, even as it's also like very, you know,
Eva: Wait, what can be,
Kyley: entrepreneurship, like just working for yourself. And so, yeah. I'm also just jazzed for you that like you're, this proactive aspect of you is also like part of a partnership rather than like, that feels also [01:01:00] really lovely, rather than just like, you being able to like get shit done is also like actually part of this like, fun collaborative creation.
Um,
Eva: Yeah. That is true. That's a good part of it. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: All right everybody. Thanks for joining us as
Kyley: Let us know about surrender in your life.
Eva: Yeah, I know. I feel like, um, I wanna know, there are probably things out there that folks are, that you listeners are doing that are, uh, Kylie and I could probably benefit from . So
Kyley: And any of you like,
Eva: tips.
Kyley: big esoteric topics like, like we love these kind of juicy, you know, big topics. So if there's anything also that you're like, would like us to dive in on, you know, for a suggested kind of question or topic, um, yeah. We
Eva: yeah. Email us or Instagram us. We're available and share, like, I know people say that all the time, but it really does help when you share it, when you like [01:02:00] it, when you write a review. Um, yeah. It's big for little podcasts like ours.
Kyley: Yeah, exactly. We love you.
Eva: By