We know that trusting that everything works out makes life much easier....but how exactly do you trust, especially when you're feeling unsure? Kyley shares about somatics of softening and her journey with pelvic floor PT, while Eva continues to understand trust on the other side of her cross country travel
We know that trusting that everything works out makes life much easier....but how exactly do you trust, especially when you're feeling unsure?
Kyley shares about somatics of softening and her journey with pelvic floor PT, while Eva continues to understand trust on the other side of her cross country travel
Money Magic Workshop: https://portal.ravenandmerope.com/money-magic
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Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Join Kyley’s Facebook group: Monsters & Magic
Grab your ticket for Magic Circle
audioEvaLiao42105985757 and audioKyleyCaldwell[sh32105985757
Eva: [00:00:00]
Hey everyone, it's Eva here.
Kyley: it's Kylie.
Eva: Welcome back to another episode of Hello Universe.
Kyley: You moved your desk at the same time as you were saying hello universe. And so it was like this zoom effect, like we were zooming into the universe of Eva, which I'm here
Eva: Oh, amazing. Like, um, wanting Change, Cameron Movie Effect.
Kyley: Yes. exactly.
Eva: uh, hello Friend, and all you listeners out there. It's good to be here.
Kyley: Yeah, it's really good to be here. We got a beautiful note last time [00:01:00] we aired an episode about surrender that we made, um, one of our listeners cry the whole time. So buckle up this, this might be surrender part two,
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: the Trust Edition.
Eva: Yeah. The trust. Oh my God. The trust and the letting go of addition. Yes, because that conversation did feel unfinished to me actually.
Kyley: Yeah. Which makes sense because I also feel very much in process and surrender, like Right. If I feel in the middle of a cycle of surrender. So the conversation felt like, like one mark on the journey as opposed to like,
Eva: Oh yeah. We're done. We're
Kyley: yes. Like where is, there are moments where you kind of like close a chapter and you look back.
This felt like, just like Paige in the middle of the book. But I have a question for you, Eva, before we do, um, before we do surrender and trust and, and everything that you're like, what, what's going on for you and Austin and why you've moved to Austin? Um, aside from the taco, some good one. you have anything [00:02:00] you wanna promote?
Eva: Y'all. Thank you for asking. Um, I have two things I wanna promote. One is my program for, I don't have a title for it yet, so this is just what I've been calling it, and so I, I'm gonna figure that out. But the program is for, it's like an Al-Anon or Adult Children of alcoholics adjacent program. So people, if you are someone who is feeling frustrated or trapped or overwhelmed because you have a loved one who's struggling with addiction of some sort, whether it's, um, I mean, last cohort it was, you know, there was definitely people who in their family who had, uh, you know, like porn or, you know, partners with porn addictions and also alcohol, uh, or drugs and narcotics.
And, um, either now or 20 years ago, those were the people who had signed up for the course. And so, if. That's you, and you feel alone and pissed, and rageful and [00:03:00] frustrated, and there's this codependency thing going on, and, um, you feel like it's finally time to take care of yourself. And you wanna do that in community with people who get it, who understand.
Um, that is the program that I'm running, so
Kyley: add something
Eva: yes, please, please.
Kyley: So yes, if you're feeling angry and pissed, or b, if you're feeling a lot of nothing, right? Like if you grew up, say, with, you know, parents who are or who are addicts and, uh, and now you think, like, you just think it feels like nothing. There's a good chance that you've created a lot of like protection for yourself from those feelings and that they're just living inside you, subconsciously running the show.
And those, and that causes things like, oh, why do I always end up with a boss who's X, Y, and Z? Or, why am I always kind of
Eva: Have trouble with relationships or like, have trusting people or like, yeah.
Kyley: yes, like, or why am I always worried that someone's about to be mad at me? Right? There's a good chance that like [00:04:00] under the surface, are these. Still very kind of live wire emotions, but to protect yourself, you've just created all this distance from feeling them. And so, um, like yes, if the emotions feel active and loud, but maybe even more so, if you just kind of intellectually know, this probably impacted me, but emotionally I think I'm fine.
You are fine. And also stepping into Eva's space will help you experience just how fine you are, right? Like it will create space in your life that you maybe didn't even know was the space you were looking
Eva: Yeah. Oh, thank you for selling that so well for me, sometimes it's just easier for someone else to, to say it for you, but Yes, yes, yes. Snaps to all the things, um, and. . Yeah. This work is just really near and dear to my heart cuz this has been my experience. I'm not surprised that, you know, this was my, I grew up struggling with this so much because of, you know, being raised by my mother who was an alcoholic.
Um, and here I am now, [00:05:00] like, you know, 30 years later teaching on it. So it feels really, uh, sacred. This work feels sacred to me. Yeah. Um, the second thing I wanna plug really quick is, uh, gosh, I think April 21st or 22nd, I don't have it in front of me right now. Um, I'm doing a one day online meditation retreat, which I'm actually very excited about because, uh, I've been getting back into meditation.
I was kind of off of my routine when I was traveling and now that I'm back into it, I'm like, oh, right. I remember what this feels like for, for me, this space of like, Centering a presence of feeling at home in my own body. And sometimes it takes longer than just doing like a, you know, maybe 20 minute meditation.
There is something that happens I think when we like sit our ass down and we devote a whole day to spaciousness and to presence. And then it just kind of sets us up for, I don't know, days, weeks, months to come. And so that's like the power, I think of a one day retreat. It's like you're really [00:06:00] reprogramming your brain and like letting stuff go.
Um, and so I'm really thinking about it as a reset. So if you want to deepen your meditation or if you're just like, I just need to fucking reset. That sounds amazing. Um, you can also just message me about that D m e. I can send you all the details at I am Eva on Instagram
Kyley: Yeah, this sounds amazing. Um,
Eva: Yeah. Okay. And what about you friend?
What would you like to share with our people?
Kyley: Um, so as I was recording, I still have some spots open for one-on-one coaching. If, if listeners remember, I think it's still in the show, but I recently realized like, oh, I actually wanna work a lot more. So I opened up like quite a few spots in my calendar where I previously had only held them to four maximum for one-on-one clients.
So still have a few of those spots open as of this recording. Um, and, um, I have a little promo going on for single sessions are half off. If you wanna get a sense of what working with me is like before, if, you know, if you like, I wanna [00:07:00] commit, but I'm afraid to commit, just buy a single session, we'll take for a test drive.
Um, so all that's going on right now, but I also wanna do a little bit of a tease, which, um, speaking of programs born directly out of our heart, uh, Alchemy's coming back, which
Eva: Oh.
Kyley: might remember, is my course on. Like 10, like lovingly tending to your complicated relationship with money Um, and it's, I'm running it with Liz.
So Liz and I are, are holding this space together and I'm really jazzed because there are a million courses out there that will tell you the strategy of how to make money. And there are a million courses that will tell you how to like manifest and be high vibe. This course is looking at all of your grief, all of your tenderness, all of your rage and disappointment and hurt.
Like all the ways in which [00:08:00] money has been this place of perhaps really tremendous anxiety or discomfort or shame or confusion, right? Like there's so many emotional layers to our relationship with money and also all of the resources that I find tend to look at it as a budget to fix or a mindset to fix.
Eva: Um,
Kyley: are, so there is such a rare place to look at like the emotions that go into this relationship, to the actual energetic, re energetic frequency of having your fucking needs met, right? Like this is deep, deep, deep stuff. Um, it's like the energy of your very survival is wrapped around money. And also we expect people to like not have a complicated relationship to it.
Eva: that's so true. That's so true. Yeah. That is, yeah, this because money goes Yeah. That. I just love the way that you put that. It is. I think some people think like, oh yeah, like, I don't know how, I don't have money stuff, but like, or maybe they don't, I don't know. But it [00:09:00] is survival and in our capitalistic world it's, yeah, it's very much like, uh, so it can be like, Just such a stressful thing and I just love the way that you teach about money.
I love the way that you talk about money. I love having money conversations with you. I feel like you're always offering me something, some perspective, cuz it's not about money, it's about, well it is about money, but it's also about do we deserve that We can have our needs met? Do we believe that we can have our needs met?
Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: It's this really, it's this really tender place and you know, going back to something I said on the show a little while ago, like, my interest is in your liberation, and then what you do with that liberation is up to you, right? So I wanna hold this space where you feel less like pit in my stomach, terror around money.
Or like deep avoidant shame, right? Like the check the bill comes and you're just like, I'm gonna hide this in the boat of my bag. That's how I'm gonna handle it. Because it feels so full of like dread and shame or the. The grief that I see a lot of entrepreneurs [00:10:00] have of like, I just need to make it, and then I'll believe in myself or then I'll be kind to myself, right?
There's so many ways in which we play out these really deep stories around money and my, my will, my want for you is to have the safe space to unpack those stories and then decide from a place of sovereignty and tremendous self-compassion, what you actually wanna build, which might be a fucking million dollar empire and also might be something totally different.
But I want for you to feel freedom and space and safe in your relationship to money. Um, and, uh, yeah, and I don't, I don't know a lot of other places that actually can hold this, hold this in this way. So if you have a complicated emotional relationship with money regardless, that's the other thing. I've worked with people who are millionaires and I've worked with people who were like, you know, delivering GrubHub to make ends meet.
Right? , everyone, like the stories are pretty fucking similar. you know, like, [00:11:00] it's not, the, the stories are pretty similar. So if you have a complicated relationship with money, if money is a place of like emotional complication for you and you would like it to feel like you can breathe easier, um, shoot me a DM and I'll make sure you get the details as the program starts for, I'll be doing a workshop we're doing, you'll be hearing about it a lot.
But, um, I've been like waiting for the moment that it was ready to come back. You know, I've like a couple of times been like, is it alchemy? Nope,
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Uh, but it's here now, so, uh, I'm really fucking jazzed. So get ready. This is my teasing.
Eva: A little tease. I love the teaser. Numb. Numb. Numb. Tastes good. . Okay. Um, alright. I don't know. I'm gonna spray my room. Spray. I'm gonna like brushing it up in here a little bit.
Kyley: little curtains.
Eva: Oh yeah, they, um, so people can't see, but they have these roots 66 curtains in my Airstream trailer.
Kyley: And I am recording for my son's bedroom, so I have a Celtics poster[00:12:00]
Eva: Oh yeah, I did notice that.
Kyley: a little
Eva: Yeah. Um, okay, so we wanna con con, continue this conversation about, well actually, let me first ask you, Kylie. So you've been, you know, you've been, and we've been messaging back and forth even, you know, edges our every day about like how surrender feels like a big, big medicine for you right now.
It's really coming up. Um, I use the word trust a lot
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: and I'm wondering to, to you do trust, surrender and letting go all kind of mean the same thing because, and that's a loaded question because I have an answer sort of in, in the chamber,
Kyley: Uh, that's interesting. I'm kind of curious to hear you, what you have, because I Yes, question mark. So you tell me.
Eva: Well, I guess I just mean you, I, you know, I noticed that you, when we talk, you call it surrender, but I keep calling it trust because I feel like there is no surrender without trust. And when I'm fully trust, like I am surrendered. So I think, I guess what I'm trying to say is I think they feel [00:13:00] like they go very much hand in hand.
Kyley: Oh, you know what? That also actually makes sense, makes sense for the moment we're both at because, uh, you're, the story you, we've been speaking about on the podcast and offline is this relationship around like, can I, can I trust that this is gonna be okay? Like this big new adventure that I've stepped into.
And there is like, um, kinda like a narrative component to it for you, right? so that actually makes sense, the language that we're both using.
Cause we are, I think, speaking to the same thing. Um, but from what I, on some level, trust feels the, what you're experiencing is like, can I trust that this experience in Texas is gonna be safe and okay. And therefore can I surrender to it? But trust feels very rooted in like the way I'm talking to myself.
Right. And my experience right now, which I can talk about in the episode, is like, [00:14:00] really rooted in my body and like, unrelated to like, it's like it's, the stories irrelevant because it's like very somatic. So surrender feels more appropriate because it's like the, the, it's, it's lit. It's literally the muscles in my body.
Eva: Right. Okay. Yeah. That, that totally makes sense.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: But
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: oh,
Kyley: because there have been moments where trust felt really loud to me, and I'm not opposed to, it just feels like less. It is like it's on the same, it's like, it's like they're all the same, but it's not the the loudest flavor right now.
Eva: Hmm. Okay. I love that. Um, so a little bit of context. I feel like, uh, I wanna share with everybody a little bit about what I'm doing in Austin, Texas. I feel like I've been dancing around it for a while. Um, and I've never really taken a, taken a beat to really explain. And I think that's because, um, Eliza, my, my partner and I, who I'm like currently.
[00:15:00] Working with, and I'm living on her in her space. We've sort of had to take our time to piece out like how exactly we wanna talk about this new project. But, um, backtracking even before I, you know, broke up with Adam back in like October, I think I remember Yeah. Reaching out to you Kylie, like actually during the summer, and I was like, I feel really strongly in my body that I wanna be like in community with people and I'm looking for some type of like, but I wanna be con more connected to nature.
Like, I was thinking about joining a commune. Like even when I was in a relationship, I had talked to Adam. I was like, would you be okay with me? Maybe like going away for six months and just doing my own thing. I just had this like very strong desire that get away from. Right. Um, and then I messaged Kylie and Kylie's, like I know the perfect person.
Kyley: Although what's hilarious is that I literally was like, oh, I, I think you should ask my friend Eliza, who's been a guest on the show before, under the names Aley Kane, same person. Um, But not because I thought she would be the [00:16:00] person you would build a community with, but because I literally, my, I just was like, oh, she feels like the person who could point you in the right
Eva: Right, right.
Kyley: delightful to me is that the right direction was like, yeah, come live in my
Eva: Yes. Yes. Because you're like, I feel like Eliza would know something, like, would know these things. And it turns out she is trying to cultivate something like this for herself. So my desire is
Kyley: to your intuition,
Eva: Yeah. . Yeah. I mean, really, I, I just wanna take a moment to, to speak to the fact that like, I don't think that I am alone in this desire.
I know, Kylie, maybe you have said that. Like, this is not something I think you've joked before, like, yeah, this is like totally not ever something that I would wanna do. But I do think that it's, it's like, it's those
Kyley: never, it's something my husband would never wanna do. And since I like him,
Eva: right, right, right. I think really what I'm speaking to is more like, you know, the memes that go out are on the internet, that they're about, like, you know, the, the urge to wanna like, kiss a plant or like the urge to wanna like, you know, Uh, just like rub your face in the dirt, like those sorts of [00:17:00] things.
And I think there is this longing for us to return and, you know, people talk about, they joke about wanting to quit their job and join a commune, and I think there's a real longing here that people are just like, I need this, this way of like my nine to five, or not even my nine to five, but just this constant, um, sometimes boring turn is not the way that it's meant to be.
Kyley: mm.
Eva: um, yeah, and I know that I've, for me, like I just feel like, I don't know how, but this strong urge to move my life in a direction that's more in tune with like the cycles of, of the earth, whatever that really look means or looks like. So then I got in touch with Daley and, um, yeah, so she has this really beautiful space, uh, [00:18:00] in Austin, which is kind of amazing because it's, to me, part of the draw is that it's this acre of land that's very homestead, and then right behind it, there's like miles of trails by, by this creek.
And when you're here, you feel like you're in the middle of like a beautiful meadow. But then you're actually in the city of Austin, like, she's not, like outside of Austin. She's like in a very cool part of Austin. So I kind of get to have the best of both worlds because I like city life too. You know, like I, I, I've often taught, I think I've talked about before, how when I wanna be in nature, I'm afraid that it means that I'm gonna have to sacrifice.
People that I'm gonna have to be like isolated because I have to be so far out and I don't want that either. Um, so yeah, she offered me this opportunity to come do a residency stay, which she's done a couple times before, and stay in this Airstream trailer. It's like this old 1960s Airstream trailer and oh my God, that'll, that's the story for another time because that has been an adventure in and of itself a [00:19:00] lot to figure out there and, and, um, it's required some work, but so, you know, yeah.
So now I'm like living here. Um, and we want to turn her space into like a community space where we can bring practitioners together and hold events. And also Zale's like an artist and a creators by, in every sense of the word. She's like one of the most resourceful, creative people I've ever met. Like, her whole vibe is just like, There is this like magical vibe to her where she just has this imagination and she can just like, make things out of nothing.
And it's just, there's just like a lot of play going on. Um, and so, uh, the why, you know, when I was deciding where I wanted to move after I broke up, I did have the sense of like, I can go fucking anywhere. Like I can go to Brazil, I can go to Costa Rica, I can go back to Taiwan. Um, but there was something really appealing about the potential of what we could be doing here at Hy, what we call Hyper Brasil house.
So you guys may be hear referring, hearing me, [00:20:00] refer to Hyper Brasil house a lot. Um, and it sounds really nice in theory, like is something I, I think I have the tendency if I'm being totally honest, to idealize things and
Kyley: Oh, same.
Eva: Yeah. And I think that's a beautiful thing, right? It's really like there's a part of me that just wants to imagine the best possibility, like how magical everything can be.
Um, But of course I think, you know, every every organization or anyone who's ever tried to do anything big for themselves, really, like, they probably have a million nightmare stories about all the fucking bullshit that they had to go through in order to actually make it work, right? Like, it's all not all this glamorous. It's not just glamorous and idealistic like the whole way through.
Um, and so I'm here and there's [00:21:00] basically once a day I get this like, you know, like fear comes in and is like, oh my God, what are you doing with your life? You're 39 years old, you're living in an Airstream trailer. You know, I, okay, we've joked how I just, I just say I'm 40 now. I'm 40 years old. I'm living in a str in an Airstream trailer.
Like the, it was infested with mouse shit. Like the plumbing doesn't work. like it, you know, just like stuff like that. I like, uh, there's just so much to figure out, like, are we actually gonna make this work? You know, there's conflict. I mean like a lot of my experiences also here about learning how to be more with people, which is what I want.
Like, cuz if you want community, you're gonna be around people. And I think inevitably there's gonna be like conflict and there's like conflict management that needs to be learned and like, you know, oh God, there's just so much that goes into it. Even like my, my tendency to be conflict averse. Do you know what I mean?
Like when you finally get into conflict and you're like, oh my God, this feels so bad. It feels like awful. Like when, when, and it hasn't happened to me in a really, really long time because I think I've just been safe with like [00:22:00] the peop like my small group of people who I'm really comfortable with, you know?
Um, so I think what we're doing here is amazing and, um, playful. and I get to just like tend to this piece of land. And I think that's like really beautiful and I, and I would like to be able to share about more, more about my experience as it unfolds. Um, cause I definitely think I'm gonna be learning a lot.
I already have been learning a lot. Um, and, and also as Kylie has heard, just, you know, offline, there've been so many moments where I'm just like freaking out
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Cause I'm like, I moved all the way over here. Like, what if it doesn't work? Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? It's just story, story, story, story, story stories.
Yeah. That's
Kyley: Yeah, I have so loved witnessing your journey and it's funny you're talking about like the, uh, talking about, you know, [00:23:00] the, the big vision and the idealism and then like the reality is more complicated. First of all, Nick is forever the person who.
I love that you have these big fishs and also you have a tendency to bite off more than you can chew. As I'm like crying about how like I've bitten off more than I can chew . Right. Um, so I see you there and I love that about, I love that about myself because I would never be able to create things if I
Eva: I love that about myself too. Yeah, exactly. . Yes. I love it about myself too. And it's fun. It's fun to live life that way cuz you're like infinite possibilities, you know?
Kyley: Yes. It's fun to live that way and. . I would never build new realities if I was committed to, like, what won't work with the current reality. And also I'm really grateful for my husband's ability to be like, you know, a realistic one. Um, and it was reminding me of a client session I had last night where we were talking about something and we were basically, she was, [00:24:00] she was like, this sounds like real, like dancing around the fire, naked at night vibes.
And we were laughing. Then she goes, too bad. I always get bit by mosquitoes when I'm like, by the fire. And I was like, that's,
Eva: so funny.
Kyley: but those are like, how? Right? That's like a total thing of like, IDOs, I'm gonna be this wild woman who's like out frolicking and unencumbered and also, yeah, you're gonna get mosquito bites on your ass then.
Like, that's, that's just what happened.
Eva: it goes. Sorry, I just had to know, because by the way, there is a literal, huge fucking fire pit in the middle of this, of this land. And Zale's talking about how like, yeah, she will do like naked, topless, like dances around this. So like just one. That is something that we're aiming towards.
But also I'm laughing because my life has, I have so many more bugs in my life now, Kylie. There's just so many bugs. In fact, my whole fucking face got like, not okay, my whole face, but my eye, I got like a bug bite on my eye, my forehead, my cheek last night. Like something just came in and like ravaged my face and I was just like, yeah.
It's just like, it's, it's the real, it's the reality, meaning the idealism. And that's not a, that's not like a bad thing. And I think it's like figuring [00:25:00] out what I am like available for, like what my limits.
Kyley: Mr. Laar. And also I think, I think the, the reality like when the, when the difficult, when these like contraction moments happen or like the difficult moments or the discomfort or the bug bites or whatever, like are meaning is so quick to mean that the whole situation's.
Eva: Yep.
Kyley: right? Like we create this meaning that's like, oh, and now I'm covered with buck bites and I'm always gonna be around bugs here, and I hate bugs.
And so I've made a terrible electro and everything's over, you know?
Eva: Yes. Yes. It's like, so we've talked about this, I don't know if I was talking to you about this or someone else, but like every time I think about money stuff and I'm like, oh, I don't have enough money, it's like immediately I'm like, oh, I'm homeless. Like I immediately jump to homeless. Like it's just, there's no way in between.
It's like, and then, and then same thing with like being here. It's like, oh, there's bugs. It means ah, it means this is a mistake. I shouldn't be here. You know? It's like our brain just goes immediately to worst case scenario. And something that I talk about often, funny enough, my clients, is that [00:26:00] reality is often way more kind than our fear is.
and that is just true. Like reality ends up being more kind than anything that our fear tells us. And I've just seen that again and again. But, and also here I am, you know, being the hu doing the human thing of reacting to my fear.
Kyley: You know what's also just dropped in for me, going back to your question about trust, I think my story of trust is a thing I have to do, right? So I think also one of the reasons that I haven't been describing this chapter for me about trust is because like, okay, the bugs show up and you're like, oh my God, this is the worst.
I hate bugs. It made a terrible life choice. Then my second arrow, my like follow up moment is like, and you're supposed to be trusting and you're not trusting, and this is the worst.
Eva: Oh yeah. Yep, yep, yep.
Kyley: Surrender somehow like gives my feeling of surrender somehow is like, My feeling of surrender somehow gives space to like surrendering [00:27:00] as I'm like, well, I fucking hate this and I'm surrendering to how much I fucking hate this.
And so, um, yeah. It's, it's like that's the same thing, but my mind does a sneaky, plays a sneaky game about trust.
Eva: girl, I hear you. Yep, I get it 100%. Um, so I don't know, what do we wanna say about Shaz under, I feel like we had such a juicy conversation going yesterday that I
like.
Kyley: Well, I guess I could share a little bit about my, so you shared kind of the practical place that you're playing this out. And I'll share my own, which is, um, this week, um, I started pelvic floor physical therapy, um, which is bonkers amazing. And if you have a pelvic floor, I think you should go do pelvic floor physical therapy, like it's a really cool experience.
Okay. So the backstory is that in, um, I think I talked a little bit on the show, but in the fall I woke up one morning with like a sear hip pain, like waking me up at [00:28:00] night, couldn't sleep, searing hip pain, that was like radiating down to my knee and my foot and I could feel it in my lower back. And it was like most in my left hip was also my right hip.
And it literally, like, I've had like off and on, you know, like I had two kids, right? I've had. Stuff in that region, but this was really intense and then didn't go away. And so yeah,
Eva: happens. Yeah.
Kyley: and it brought up like really big emotions. Like, you know, anyone like, like Somatics 1 0 1 is like your hips hold your emotions.
Right? And so I had some big emotional breakthroughs about it. And then, um, and, and you know, started like standing more like little, so it was like some physical things shifted, some emotional things shifted, and then it persisted. And so I signed up for physical therapy. Um, I was like, oh yeah, that's what this, that's what people did some physical therapy for.
And I went to two sessions and. Realized that the emotions that it was connected to were much deeper than I was fully, like, had fully [00:29:00] acknowledged, um, that there was some really deep trauma that this was actually about. And I had like a suspicion, it was like a little bit about that, but I was like, oh no, a hundred percent, that's what this is about.
And it was the, basically the holidays and I was like, I would rather not wade through my deepest trauma over Thanksgiving,
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: So, so I paused and um, and then just recently was like, okay, I'm ready to go back. And when I messaged this really amazing physical therapist and I had already in the beginning shared with her, like, you know, I think this is step tied to, you know, some trauma I experienced a long time ago.
And she was like, okay, well we could actually, if you want, you know, I'm also a pelvic floor physical therapist, and if that's actually the root of this, why don't we go there? So your pelvic floor for context is, is the muscles, it's basically the bottom of your diaphragm, right? So it's the, the, the muscles between your hips and in your like, Private region.
So, um, they're the muscles, um, like your breathing is impacted by your pelvic floor. [00:30:00] Lots of women who've had gone through, lots of people who've gone through childbirth, um, benefit from pelvic floor physical therapy cuz you push out a like eight to 10 pound baby . Right. So like, the whole joke, like, I was laughing with her like, you know, I go to, if I go to a trampoline park with my kids and I have to pee, like, you know, like
Eva: Yeah. Yep.
Kyley: it's, you know, it's little.
It's gonna be a little bit of an
Eva: Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: very interested in the pelvic floor. So yes, I think this is one of those things that like is super important and also like one of the thousands of things that's super important and no one ever talks about or it's not like taught to us. And so I'm un just so fucking bizarre the way that our society works.
But
Kyley: Yeah. Yes. And, and I had like some awareness that pelvic floor physical therapy was a good idea if you'd had a baby. And I wasn't opposed to it. And I also just had never thought it through guys with my, like, if, if you have insurance, that's $15 for me to go to one [00:31:00] of these appointments and I literally am changing my entire life.
Like, I can tell, I can feel that. Um, so what was it to say it is bringing up big emotions, right? Like cuz it's tied to this, you know, um, trauma that's been living in my body for a long time and one of the, one of the big things that she shared with me, so, so my story has been, . Um, well anyway, my story forever has been about like strong and how I can need to be stronger.
Right? I shared this on Instagram the other day. Like my story was always like, oh, I like a weak, I have a lower back pain. And all the, like with some frequency, I don't have a very strong core. That was like just locked into my brain.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Immediately after this assessment. She was like, you actually had tremendous strengths.
Like your contract, the contractions here are very strong. The work for you is in letting go.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: And I started cracking up cause I was like, oh, well, yes, yes, that tracks right? Like, so as I've been sharing on the podcast about [00:32:00] surrender and as my whole life keeps pointing back to like, stop being a control freak, like you are not in charge.
The mu and i, the muscles of my body in this like centermost area are in literal constant contraction mode.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Kyley: So imagine, sorry, go ahead. Say
Eva: Well, sorry, I just wanna, I also wanna explain what you explained to me, which I think is important, is that the, the, like, what's happening here is that your body physically does not know how to let go. Like if you, if she was like, okay, now just let go, loosen this muscle, like relax this muscle.
You and or your body would be like, Nope, I, that's not an option for me. Cause I don't know how to do that.
Yeah.
Kyley: why last week I was like, I'm so confused. I know I need to surrender and I'm confused. That's the way I'm confused because my body is confused, like assignment received, but what, how does one do that?
Eva: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and I was sharing with you, Kylie, that like, I think this is really. Common Actually this meaning we may not [00:33:00] be aware of it, but they're, um, you know, we've talked before about how like the body keeps the score. That really amazing book about trauma in the body. But also, um, I was telling you the story about how I had a client who, when I told him to close his eyes to meditate, he would just, he, he would, his eyes are like this.
Like he would shut them really tight and ha he would throw his brow. Like he didn't know. He didn't, his muscles were always so contracted in his face. He didn't know how to just gently like what I would call normally or whatever, like just close your eyes like you were taking a breath. And so a lot, yeah, it was just like, a lot of it was like learning how to like, like relax the muscles and the faces and that needs to be learned for whether it's in your face or your pelvic floor, your shoulders, your back, like there, your, your hips.
Like there's, there's just places that the body is literally does not have the, um, the. The status quo is the tightness, is the contracting, and they, it doesn't even know that there is a place to let go into.
Kyley: [00:34:00] Yeah. And so it explains, like if you just think of like, so these like centermost muscles have been holding for over 30 years, and then of course my lower back and my hips and my knee and my feet are there for like tweaked out of alignment because the center is like a tight fist, you know? Um, and yet I've been trying to tend to it in different ways for, for years by being stronger.
Like, oh, I gotta do more planks, right? I need to like do sit-ups. I need to be, I need to contract more. I have to, I'm like, I'm not strong enough. I have to push more harder. And like, God, you're failing at pushing harder and harder. And meanwhile my body is. It's like completely,
Eva: It needs a complete opposite of that. Yeah. It needs the opposite of what you've been doing. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah. Um, and so that's why, you know, for listeners in the beginning I was like, oh, trust is, it's, that's what surrenders the strong word for me, because it's [00:35:00] like, be it's beneath mind because it's the, it's really my, my feeling is that my story, what I'm experiencing in this moment is how much my stories and my emotions and my experiences are reflecting back this, these muscles in my body.
Eva: Hmm. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. Well, and that's all connected. And also the mu, I mean, the reason that, the way that I'm kind of seeing is that you're, the muscles in your body also inform the stories that you're telling yourself.
Kyley: Yes. Well, yeah, I think that's what I mean is like, like, um, like we. Like the, like the, the external experience that I'm having of like, oh my gosh, there's so many balls in the air and I have to hold them all, and I'm really tired of holding everything in the air. Like the root of that is my pelvic floor.
The root of that isn't an overscheduled life. Like my sense in this moment is like, I have created an overscheduled life because I've also, because my body is in a [00:36:00] perpetual state of holding, and so I only, I just keep replicating, holding, and like contraction because that's what I, that's literally how I understand the world.
And so that's what I mean, like everything feels like a reflection of this because
Eva: feel very confident that the two, that basically the, it is a, a direct correlation. Meaning it is the cause
Kyley: Yeah. It does feel That's what it, that's it's in the. You know, shroom, me portally way that everything's layered on top and is the same thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, like in an infinity symbol it feels like this is the like crossover point between all the lines. You know what I mean? Like it's the starting, it's the starting point.
It's also the completion point. It's also the portal.
Eva: Uhhuh. . Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Um, so I think my, I mean, I know you were like very early on in this process, but [00:37:00] Mm. What do you think this like means for you or
Kyley: Well I have a question for you now that we've like kind of established how we're like how we're both wa which is funny cuz last week we brought up this topic almost before realizing how fully we were both in this same topic, you know? But I'm actually curious. about your journey with trust and these moments of like, okay, like, like what, what, what you're experiencing when you have these moments.
Cause it's kinda like intense waves of like anxiety or fear or mistrust or whatever you might call it. Like what happens, what that looks like.
Eva: Oh, good question. Okay. So what does that look like? Um, okay, so I, I, I will say I have noticed that my body and my nervous system are just more like on high alert in general since my mo, so like, so this is, I feel like this so much has been this, this has been so much a part of my journey, [00:38:00] this idea of like, I was very comfortable in my previous life.
Um, and that was actually part of the, and I think this is actually, a lot of people can relate to this. That's why we don't leave the relationship or the job or whatever, because we're like, , it sucks. And it's kind of like, you know, maybe you're in a soul sucking job and you're like, it's killing me, but it's, it's, but I'm making all this money or something is really nice about it, so it's really hard to leave.
Um, and so I have, I've stepped away from comfort, so I'm totally out of my comfort zone in that, um, you know, I'm in a new city. I don't really know anyone here. I, uh, and again, it's so, it's so funny. I've moved a thousand gazillion bajillion times in my life. Something about being in Austin feels different.
Maybe it's cuz I don't, I think it is partly because every time I move somewhere, usually I know somebody. But it does feel like I'm doing this alone. Like, this is a solitary experience. And I think, to be honest, whether I like it or not, it feels different cuz of my age. [00:39:00] Like when you're, when I'm, when I was in my twenties and thirties moving around a lot.
I don't know, I don't, maybe there's probably some easy explanation for why that felt okay.
Kyley: Well culturally that's like, you know, your twenties is the time of like running around and exploring.
Eva: right? I feel like at 40, maybe it's just the stories that I tell myself that at 40 I'm supposed to be settled down or something. Not like starting like all over. I don't know. Maybe it's something like that.
Kyley: Well I would also reflect, so your twenties are like culturally this time of, I mean not for everyone. Some people you know, live a different culture and the twenties are when you get married and have babies. But I think you and I both grew up in a culture of like, yeah, your twenties are for like run around the city late at night and exploring, and then a lot of the moves in your thirties.
I feel like were moving to Phoenix to be near Adam and then moving with Adam to Portland. And so like your last two big moves were about like being in relationship.
Eva: and rooting. Like really those were moves that I made because my long-term vision, or like what I thought I was moving towards was like settling down. I was like putting down roots. It was [00:40:00] all in, um, in favor of that. Like that's what I, that was my goal. And so now everything's just been like my whole, I I keep saying I've kinda like blown up my life because now that's not the plan anymore and my future is completely unknown.
Like, I don't, like, I am really recreating it now, um, from scratch. So it's a, I'm just in a different direction than I was. So thank you for pointing that out cuz that's actually, yeah. So,
Kyley: And I again, just, sorry, just cause I feel I'm, I'm staying on this because I think that part of the story for trust for you is, if I may just be bold, is this tendency also to kind of like gaslight your fear, right? And just be like, well, I should just trust, or like, these are just stories, right? Or like these are, these are, these are just stories and therefore they don't matter and like yeah, they are stories and ultimately it feels great when we drop beneath story and also.
your story is meaningful. You know, and you, you did have this feeling for years of like moving in a certain direction and also [00:41:00] now you're standing at this point of like no direction, right? This, you were like literally in abyss. And I just wanna normalize that to be in abyss and to be scared.
Eva: Oh,
Kyley: Hi listeners, that's Desi.
Eva: just popped his head in. Hi, Desi
Kyley: As I mentioned earlier, we're recording from his shut room and he has come in to say hello.
Eva: Okay, so yeah, you're talking about gaslighting my feelings, but
Kyley: Yeah. Like, you're, okay. So, so you're standing at the edge of this abyss, right? And you, you, it's not, it's not just that you took a hard right turn, right? It's like you had a path and then in honoring yourself, you took a giant eraser and now you're standing at the edge of a blank sheet of paper. And then you're asking yourself not to be scared.
Eva: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so, um, okay, so there's so much that I could say about that and we'll get to that. Cause I think you [00:42:00] said something yesterday that was really helpful for me about like, you know, just letting myself be scared, like, you know, fear. Yeah. And, and witnessing that. But, but to answer your original question of like, so how does that show up?
Because yes, I'm on this like blank slate. My nerves are just more alert than usual. And so little like little things will, how it shows up is little things that maybe would not be a big deal. Like, okay, we'll go back to the bugs. Normally maybe a bug is just a bug and you're like, whatever. I'm in nature, there's bugs.
But now a bug, my reactions are just so much bigger and stronger. And I like will make bigger meaning out of things than I think, uh, than, I don't wanna say accurate, but like, um, then proportionally makes sense. Maybe.
Kyley: Yeah. Oh, that makes perfect sense cuz like yesterday. My nerve, my right. Also doing pelvic floor, like it's related to trauma. So like there's some tenderness emotionally that just is like, the volume just turns turned up on everything
Eva: yes, yes,
Kyley: Um, and Nick came [00:43:00] downstairs and asked the kids to like clean up their mess like five times.
Nobody listened. And then he was like, us, like snapped at them. And I like, I just felt this like rush from like my toes all the way up to like, I just got like, it was like a very activated response to him snapping at our kids. And like, we both try hard not to, and also like that's a normal thing that happens, but my reaction was like, I felt basically panicked in response to him, like having this snappy response.
Um, and, and it was really clear to me because like I'm in this heightened state and so I feel you on the bugs being another version of you getting a bug bite is like, you laugh and are annoyed and in and this moment it feels like, um,
Eva: just more sensitive to things, you know? Yeah. And so I think that's like, that's so what's so interesting, so when I notice that I'm grounded in myself, like things will just like roll off my shoulder. Do you know what I mean? But when I'm like panicked, I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Like the smallest inconvenience can seem like a really big deal.
So it's like that, but, but also,
Kyley: I, can I offer like a positive [00:44:00] potential rewrite of that too though, which is maybe also this fear cuz you're standing on the edge of this blank street. This fear is like looking for moments to be expressed.
Eva: mm
Kyley: And so maybe these moments that are like, like seem like, oh, this is an overreaction. It's cause my nervous system's outta whack and blah, blah, blah.
Maybe it's also like, like, like the off-gassing of the, like taking the pressure valve off of the fear by like giving it a moment of like, oh, okay, I got out, I got, I got out.
Eva: That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I hear what you're saying, like, like letting my fear just have its life. Um, yeah, and I think it could be a little bit of that, and I think I have, yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I think it could be,
Kyley: I mean, this isn't not a prescription. I
Eva: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I al also in terms of like how it shows up though, uh, I think the biggest part that is difficult for me, which I really [00:45:00] don't like, because it's, it feels like suffering, is that I just start controlling.
I'm grasping. I'm like, okay, let me make,
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: let me like, you know, like I'm very in my mind, so it's like, and I become very forceful and I'm like, okay, let me make a fucking schedule of like all the things that I need to get done. And I'm really rigid. It's a hypervigilance, basically fear drives me into hypervigilance, and then I feel really disconnected for myself because I'm all in mind and I'm like, I'm in, I'm in problem solving mode, fixing mode.
And it's actually the complete opposite of the experience that I wanted to create for myself when I was here, which was like to live more. In flow and in play and in like ease. And so I feel like I've, I, I kind of, this is a weird language for it, but I feel like I go into like corporate mode Eva, rather than like, um, I don't know, like nature mode, Eva, I'm here.
It's just, and it's not fun, you know? It's so, yeah. Not fun. And I feel I treat everything like a business interaction, even [00:46:00] interactions with like people around me. Cause I'm just like, Nope. Like if you're not helping me getting this thing done, then, then like, you're in my way. So, yeah, it's all very transactional.
Yes. So that's when I'm like this, that's why I feel this deep longing to want to let go because that ray of being is just like not fun at all.
Kyley: Yeah. It's funny, my, uh, . I was like practicing something with another support person of mine the other day, and they were like, can you, cause I was, I, so I've observed, um, basically now I can feel the contr, the like pos the constant clenching. I can like, feel the muscles in my body. I'm like, oh yeah, you are always holding.
Wow. Um, and so I was speaking to that and the, the, the person who was holding space from me, he was like, well, can you turn the volume? Like, can you contract? Can you actually contract more? And I was like, yeah, how does that feel? And I was like, went through all the ways, which it felt terrible. And he was like, okay.
So you can [00:47:00] see that the contracting like, hurt, like it's like causing more distress. So anyway, I, I share that. I don't know cuz I think it's
Eva: Well, I also, yeah, I think that is faster. So what I'm curious about, it's like, so that must be a trip though, that you can actually feel yourself holding and contracting and helpful,
Kyley: Yes. It, it, I mean, it is, and I don't mean to, I'm not, I didn't bring that up to like veer away
Eva: Oh, no, no. I like, I like that we're like toggling back and forth here, showing the, sharing the parallels.
Kyley: Um, yeah, it is wild because, and contracting isn't even the right word in the sense that I think of contraction as like, like an in, and then the autumn, like contraction implies the release, right?
Like if you think of like contractions in birth, like your body contracts and then it releases, but it's literally like, I've contracted and then they're not, the release isn't happening. And, um, so, so it also feels like a, like a holding anyway. Yeah. I can feel it. Like right now I can feel that like these, like innermost muscles are just like, yep, we're [00:48:00] alert, we're ready.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
Kyley: um,
Eva: But does that give you any information on, on how to release? Do you feel like you're not, not there yet?
Kyley: Well, my feeling two things. One, my feeling very much is like, it's already started, right? Like in witnessing, in committing to physical therapy in like bring in like the kind of length of support that I have around this. Like it's already, uh, like it can't stay the same cuz I've already like kind of set the wheels in motion, you know?
Eva: And also I do think the, the, the awareness of it actually is a releasing Yeah. And it does actually help with the releasing, that's like the, the interesting part,
Kyley: it does because it feels like, you know, it's like the witnessing of, you know, I talk a lot in my client sessions about like these trapped emotions or these parts of ourselves that have like, are looping on some, you know, trauma or, or, or pain or whatever, like they're waiting to be witnessed. Right. I just, I personally feel like everything just stays stuck until it feels like it's been [00:49:00] properly witnessed.
And so it feels like the same would be true for my muscles. They're like, we can't stop holding. Were recognized for the holding. So I appreciate the witnessing. And also I'm also now able to observe, like, like I can observe when I'm like clenching more and when I'm like softening more. Even the softening more is still a holding, but I can, like, I'm kind of just watching the, the, the, the fabric of that.
Um, and the thing that I've been trying to do is like in moments where I can feel like activated and I can feel the clenching start is to like soften in. So like stay soft, even as I feel activated.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Meeting your edge and softening. I just think I am, I am actually quite interested in it though, in like, what's gonna happen when you do go back to pt because, uh, [00:50:00] cause I do think that there, there, like a huge part of it is the witnessing, but there's also this whole other component where there is, I think, active.
Kyley: But I also have
Eva: Like, yeah, like muscle, like creating new muscle memory. And that is always like, really just interesting to me. And yeah, you have exercises, but I also wonder if, what the exercises, I don't, I I'm very invested in your pelvic floor journey, by the way. Just like, so, cause I wanna like, wanna learn like, like I wanna learn from this, but like, I'm just like, I imagine some of the exercises that are gonna be doing, it's not gonna be about like strengthening, it's gonna be like about breathing and like breathing into and like
Kyley: That's actually one of,
Eva: parts.
Yeah.
Kyley: one of my big exercises is, um, exhaling.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: the, the, your pelvic floor is the bottom of your diaphragm, right? So it's directly connected to your breathing. And so one of my exercises is to breathe, but like really focus on the exhale. Like put all of your softening and emotions and energy into the exhale and draw that out for as long as possible.
Which is also a meditation, like that's also a [00:51:00] meditation
Eva: Yeah. That's making so much sense to me because the, the exhales, when you like go Yeah. It's a,
Kyley: And most of us are better with the inhale, you know? So,
Eva: that's so interesting. Okay. Cool. Cool, cool. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: the reason I brought it up is because I wonder, and I know, you know, I literally know, you know this, but I we're just passing the same bit. It's like we have the same, you know, the same like seeing it as like a, like a, like a magic bone.
Eva: Okay.
Kyley: it back and forth. But when this wave of fear, which is its own contraction, shows up, how can you like sit soft in the contraction?
Eva: Yeah. So that's what I mean when I say I feel like I've been with the fear. So that's where, you know, emotional alchemy comes in for me. Meaning like, meaning I'm referring to a course that I've, that I teach on how to be with your emotions and so,
So this is where I think I bring in emotional alchemy, which is I'm referring to a course that I teach about [00:52:00] being with your emotions. Is that when I, this is the tricky thing though, is that when you're in a loop, it takes great awareness, I think, to even pause the loop.
Like you gotta like stop the cycle. Um, and that's actually one nature. Getting into nature is really helpful for me cause I feel like she's always teaching me just like, Hey, just like, be here now. Slow down. Um, , it is about what you were saying earlier, right? About what you reminded me of is like, wait, you're trying like, not to be scared, but why don't you just be scared?
Like allow yourself to, to like witness where you are right now instead of trying to act past your evolution. Right. , you're my words, not yours, but like, I do feel like that's often what we try to do. So, and then I like come into my body and I just notice like where the fear is in my body. And for me it's like always in my fucking throat.
And I, I know. Isn't that so weird? It's like, yeah. Well actually I think that's, I, I've, I've seen [00:53:00] that to be true for a lot of people, but it's like, just like, oh, this huge thing that's stuck in here and um,
Kyley: Unsurprising based on this conversation. For me, it's all,
Eva: in your pips.
Kyley: it's all, it's all in my, like womb space.
Eva: Oh, interesting. Yeah. I always expect that it will. And I was like, go and check. And I'm like, is it there? I'm like, Nope. It's like, , I feel suffocated. It's a very uncomfortable
Kyley: me, it's in my chest and in my, in my womb space.
Eva: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. That makes sense though, that we'd have it in different places. Yeah. So anyway, yeah. And then this is the whole process of like noticing the sensations that are there and like letting them in.
And, and I've talked to you before about how like, you know, it's also like parts work. It's like, I think very early on in Hell Universe, we had this conversation about have, how ha imagine that there's a party and there's every single emotion that's there in this party, and there everyone is welcome and everyone's allowed and there's all these freaks and [00:54:00] geeks and like, it's all good.
And like fear shows up and everyone's just like, yo fear, like you're over here at the party. And it's like, all good. So, um, yeah, it's the about the slowing down and letting myself feel the fear without going into the stories about what that. Looks like or what that fear is about, instead of being like, oh, I feel fear because this person said this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, I, for me, feeling my emotions so often is about not, um, it's not in my head. It's not the story. It's all about the sensations of my body related to that emotion.
Kyley: Cosigned
Eva: we're chucking because Kylie little ones were running in and out.
Kyley: Yeah. They just had like a while Eva was giving you boatloads of wisdom.
Eva: a So
Kyley: were having listeners. We almost always record at like eight 30 night after they're asleep. And I said to you, this is an experimented in the ex. The results of the [00:55:00] experiment are mixed bag
Eva: Yeah. Mixed bag. Yeah. I'd say. I'd say A B A B
Kyley: Yeah. Maybe be minus, you know,
Eva: Um, so, but. But, but I will say, I think what I would like to do more of, um, is to give my, I think that is helpful for me, but I'd actually like to give my fear more space and to actually be like, wait, what am I actually afraid of though? Do you know what I mean? Um, cause it has a lot to do with like safety. Yeah.
Basically it's, it's always safety for me. My number one need in this life is to feel safe. Um, and that comes from just like lots of trauma, childhood trauma
Kyley: can I ask a question? Can I poke at that just for a minute? Because I'm wondering if the need to understand what you're afraid of is [00:56:00] actually a form of control.
Eva: Hmm. Yeah, you're right. I don't think I, yeah, you're right. I do think that it is a form of control, but I will say it's always helped me. It's never, it's never. I think you're right that I don't actually need to know.
Kyley: Yeah, I know. I mean, I also like understand, I mean, what all we do is talk about things that can't be understood. Like I also very much wanna understand things. Um, but I know that I ask cause I send, I sometimes. Yeah. I'm like trying to, it's a way of keeping from feeling for me. Cause when I'm
Eva: hmm,
Kyley: get invested in
like the
Eva: I think it can take me out of it for sure, but I also think that there's a very helpful component. So I think it depends like when and how we're doing it. But for me, the helpful component is like, if I know that the reason that I'm scared is because I feel unsafe, I can actually tend to that. But if I don't know that, my fear is that that's what it is, I can't tend to it.
I [00:57:00] can't give myself what I need, which is like a big hug or some, some I need to, like, for me, whenever I come back to safety, I, I, It's the witnessing of the fact that I don't feel safe. So it's like the why. So I'm like, wait, what's really happening? It's like, oh, well, witnessing that I don't feel safe and then I can really like, and then what I need to do to make myself safe is like to really just give myself a lot of love.
Kyley: Ah, yeah. I love that.
Eva: So yeah, I think there's a time when it's helpful. And then when in time when it, yeah, it does take us out of just experiencing
Kyley: Yeah. I feel really excited that we're both in what feels like kind of parallel journeys around this softening and surrendering and allowing and trusting. Um, I just feel grateful to have a fellow partner in life,
Eva: exactly. Yes.
Kyley: having like the same and different journey, you know?
Eva: Yeah. I think I would love to continue this conversation. Cause I think there's, [00:58:00] there's actually quite a lot more to be said because I think what's interesting about surrender is that there is no bottom to how much you can fucking surrender. Like, and, and even with your body, we were talking how the body's infinite.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: The, the sensations are infinite. So like, I don't, the degree to which you can experience the, your body is unlimited. And so it's just like a awesome playground I think to play in. And also this idea of surrendering like to God, and we haven't even like jumped on that yet. But this idea of what happens when we give it all up, like we're so surrendered.
I think there is a way of being in which you're so surrendered that you're like in devotion. to God's will rather than your own will, which is also your own, your God's self, which is like this whole like thing that I wanna explore with you because um, yeah.[00:59:00]
Kyley: I'm just sitting right now too with the fact that, I mean, maybe surrender is really like the ultimate and only act. So perhaps the reason why we keep having hour long conversations and being like we've barely scratched the surface is perhaps because there's only surrender.
Eva: yes,
Kyley: There's resistance, which is just you in process of surrendering.
And they're surrendering.
Eva: yes, yes. I think there's only surrendering, but like, I think that goes very, very, very, very deep.
Kyley: yeah. There's all sorts of flavors and like, yeah, it's Yes,
Eva: think deeper than most of us know,
Kyley: yes.
Eva: that's what I wanna explore.
Kyley: Yeah, like I feel like Ron Das was like, oh yeah, I've only begun to surrender
Eva: Yeah. Or, or the whole, the whole like Buddhist thing is like, there's the, they say like, there's a story of this guy. He's like, I just don't mind what happens, which is to [01:00:00] me, like, I don't mind what happens is a way of like, you are just, whatever comes, like you surrender, surrender to it. But I think it gets distorted where people think that it means you live a passive life and you're just like, okay, whatever.
Like, I don't care. And that's not what we're talking about. And so that's what I wanna explore more. This idea of, huh, you don't, like, my trick to happiness is I don't mind what happens, but you're not, but not in a checked out way, actually in a very active present way.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of jazzed for this . It might not be a series, it might just be that this is a surrender podcast
now. Maybe. It's always then, and we're just like tuning into what we've been talking
Eva: No, actually knowing me and you like, we're gonna be on to some next thing in like a couple months. Yeah.
Kyley: That's true. That's true. What I, what did I say on the show while I go, everything's a red surrender for a little while until it's not like I, I can feel that I'm just real hopped up on this, so I'm, I'm glad you're hopped up on it too.
Eva: Um, okay. What would you like to share? Yeah. With our, with our crew about joy.
Kyley: Okay.
So my joy is that I just came back from [01:01:00] hosting my first one-on-one retreat.
Eva: Oh yeah. We didn't,
Kyley: We didn't even talk about that. I was in Eva's beloved Phoenix with all of the cacti. I went hiking in her park. Um, yeah, it was, uh, it was the most amazing. I I went with Sophia Adler, who, uh, is a past guest on our show, a super cool astrologer who, um, has since become one of my clients.
I love her with all of my heart. And we went to Phoenix, Arizona for a weekend for one-on-one retreat because we'd just reached this point of like, So my one-on-one sessions for with, with, with my one-on-one clients are usually 90 minutes long. And we were like, we're, we're just not even, like, we're just scratching the surface, right?
We were like, both had this hunger to just like, just like really dive much deeper in like the building out and the structure. And she was at that phase of like, the vision wants to come through and be built. And, um, and so I tossed the idea, I'd had this idea for a while of wanting to do these in-person, [01:02:00] one-on-one retreats and um, and I tossed the idea out to her and she jumped at it.
And so we flew to Phoenix, we did a lot of hiking, we ate amazing food and we like, yeah, just like rebuilt her entire fucking business and in the, in the coolest way possible. Um, it felt like, yeah, it just felt like it was one of those moments that. Oh girl. Like you made it for both of us. You know, like, this is, this is it, this is what you want.
This is the, the building, the unveiling, the, you know, being in the process. Anyway, it was the best. It was the best. And I love Phoenix and I love the desert, so,
Eva: Yeah. And this is just a big deal. And I was just so happy for you. Like I, it took me a while to understand like you one-on-one meeting, you had a client who paid for you to go out there and like, and do this, just like build her business with her. I'm like, what a cool fucking business model. Like I love this for you, like the people who will get to do this with you in the future.
You'll have to be really special. Cause I imagine your [01:03:00] energy is like sacred and, and like, you only wanna do this with like, you know, the people who you can basically spend a weekend with
Kyley: Yes, yes. It, it, it's definitely an intense experience, but in the
Eva: in the best way, that's what I mean. Like, if it were me, I would love to have that kind of support, you know, like get it offline and just have that personal one-on-one.
I mean, I just like, totally working on my own. My, like someone else, my coach essentially helping me build my that that just sounds like such a dope offer.
Kyley: And it was also great because it was like, because it was just the two of us. Like we came in with very clear intentions and also we could be really flexible around like, this is a conversation that wants to happen while we're moving. This is a conversation that's like teary and emotional and we're gonna sit in the safety of this really cool backyard.
And this is the like silly friend chit chat over a fancy dinner. Right? And so it felt really nice to also be able to like weave the space and it felt really fun to be the space weaver, right? That was like I had a rhythm that I wanted to move through and then also could [01:04:00] improvise with what we needed in the given moment.
And um, uh, that felt like a really delicious way of holding someone too. Right. Which is just like, not like you have to show up and we sit in a boardroom for two days straight, but like, you know, okay. This, I would just like pick the topics for like this is the walk for the, this is the talk for the cactus walk and this is
Eva: It sounds like play, you know, and organic. Oh, yeah. Sounds so good.
Kyley: if you want one of these, uh, well, I mean I, like you said, it does feel really parti. It has to be the right
Eva: I think you should get people to apply. You know what I mean? People are have to apply. You're gonna have to vet them and if you are so lucky, dear listeners, to be
Kyley: Also I'm gonna, I'm just gonna be transparent, which is that at some point I will be doing a lot of these or like a number of them and they will be really expensive cuz they're super intense. But right now I'm hopped up on, off on them that I won't make them bonkers expensive. So you could get in while
Eva: on, get in early, essentially is what she's saying. Get in early. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. [01:05:00] Yeah. Um, like it's important to me to have like my offers at like a wide variety, but it was clear to me after this first one, like vet, um, I ca I basically came back and was like, I, in the future need to price these so that I can just lay on a couch for two and a half days
Eva: Oh, of course. This is such a huge
Kyley: it's just a big
Eva: you're traveling. Yeah. Oh my
God. Yeah.
Kyley: so we're not quite at that point yet. So you can, you know, you can get in
Eva: Love it. Love it, love it. Okay,
Kyley: How about you? What's bring you joy?
Eva: Okay. So my joy is, and this I would love, love to spend a whole episode like really unpacking this topic, but I think my joy is something to do, having to do with like making friends as an adult.
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: people often have the story of like, it's so hard to make friends when you're older. It's so hard. I hear people say that all the fucking time. It's so hard to make friends when you're an adult. And I don't know, man, I just have like a lot that I wanna say about this. Like, if I thinking like, figure this out and use some of my natural gifts that I are coming [01:06:00] out, that I know that I've always had, like I feel like I would wanna teach a course on this.
Cause I think friendship is so important, especially in your adult life after you're, as you're evolving, we've all been isolated for three years, you know what I mean? Like, anyway. But the joy is that like I'm in this process of like making. Friends as an adult for who I am now. And I've just met, I went, I don't know, it's just so, this is all just so new for me, Kylie.
I've been in a fucking domestic like relationship for like five years, so now I'm like going out on weeknights. My friend Emily invited me to this like bar yesterday where her friend was DJing and, and I met her friends and she was just like, so like women are just so cool sometimes where they're like, oh, you're good people.
Let me introduce you to some other good people. And there's just like this network of like women supporting women and I just felt like really held by that. So I think that's a joy, but it's also just the joy of like, it's a joy and pain if I'm being totally honest of like rediscovering what it means to make friends.
Because I'm really putting myself out there and I think [01:07:00] there are gonna be challenges. And there have already been challenges for me because I'm also just, I'm an, I'm a fucking introvert. I'm an introvert and so it's a huge learning curve for me, but I'm really proud of myself for like putting myself out there and like figuring it out and. you know, moving towards my intention of like wanting to build more community. We've talked about this before, you know, like just yeah, community being important and not being isolated and, and I just wanna bring all my people together somehow in some way. Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, oh yeah. I love, I love, I love friendship as an adult, so I would love to dive into this conversation.
Eva: Yeah. Okay. All right, friends, thanks for joining us on this ride. If you are interested in continuously learning how to surrender, we'll probably be on this topic for a while because it's infinite. Um, yeah. Thanks for
Kyley: I love you pal. Thanks,
Eva: Love you too. Bye.