Despite feeling “not ready,” we discuss the heartbreak of the world right now, how we believe change actually comes about, and what this moment asks of us. This is an episode for anyone looking for hope in the midst of a world on fire.
Despite feeling “not ready,” we discuss the heartbreak of the world right now, how we believe change actually comes about, and what this moment asks of us. This is an episode for anyone looking for hope in the midst of a world on fire.
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Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Kyley: [00:00:00] Hi, it's Kyley.
Eva: And it's Eva.
Kyley: Welcome to hello universe.
Eva: Ba ba da ba.
Kyley: Oh, my God. Sorry. I just got totally distracted because I was thinking about how we've had this really sad conversation. And so that was like a sad
Eva: Yes, wasn't it? It was a sad, I was like, I can't do air horn because I feel, I don't feel air horn right now. I feel sad and, and I, no sound actually. I feel like, um, no happy sound would have, would have been felt like the mood.
Kyley: Right. Yeah. We're so, uh, we're just so used to the trumpet sound that we felt [00:01:00] we didn't know how else to not do it, but
we did the, we did the world's on fire trumpet sound was like one step above sad trombone.
Eva: I'm amazed that you caught that. I didn't know if anyone was gonna catch that. But yeah.
Kyley: It was me deciding if I was going to comment on it or not.
Eva: Well, no, I think it's good that you called it out.
Kyley: Uh, so,
um, Well, I'll just, I'm just going to say behind the scenes, even I, we're starting this recording almost an hour and a half late because we have off camera been just having a long conversation about the state of the world. And I think. We have a lot on our heart that we would like to share, and also it doesn't, it doesn't feel baked yet. And so I think we're going to have a conversation that may end up there. It may not, but, um, yeah, if you are also sad and scared and overwhelmed by the world, we're, we're with [00:02:00] you. And I don't know, I just invite you to keep turning to the people that you love to sit and talk and hold each other through it.
Eva: Thank you for speaking to that, Kylie. Already, I feel like you're being more eloquent about it than I could be because when I start to talk about these things, I just get all... I don't know. Like this, this, this, this like rambly, like don't have the words, like hard for me to put words to what I'm thinking and feeling.
But yeah, I mean, I will say something that has been the most helpful for me in what feels like a very confusing time is having real open conversations. With friends and people who I trust are doing their best to, um, do their best. Whatever that might look like. And that can look really messy sometimes.
Um, but it's [00:03:00] not, it's not the discourse on social media, guys, that's doing shit for me right now. Let's just get there. It's, that is messy as fuck. And
Kyley: Yeah. And I also think I, I think, okay, I actually, we might've said we're not talking about this and then we're immediately having the
Eva: I know, oh my
Kyley: that we might, we might've, sad trombone might've kicked us off into actually the conversation we were pretending we weren't going to have.
Eva: This is ridiculous, guys. This here's like, Kylie and I have been messaging since last night being like, Okay, are we gonna talk about the state of the world? Are we gonna talk, like, how do, like, what, what's the thing that feels like an integrity for us to do? And we were like, nothing's completely fakes.
We're not gonna have this conversation yet. Here we are. I'm not, we're, it's like, it's like a,
Kyley: tricked ourselves into it.
Eva: yeah, I mean, it's like a train. You can't stop, you know?
Kyley: Yeah, well, and I think what I was going to speak to just now is how I think, okay, I wrote something last week about how I feel [00:04:00] like our responsibility in these moments is to. Witness the grief of what's happening in the world and also choose joy and to be the parent like to allow the paradox of both. And I think a lot of people, I don't, I don't think I'm singular. I think a lot of people feel that way. This responsibility and this desire to watch what's happening. And. I think a lot of people that gets conflated with social media. So there's this thing of like, well, I can't look away because looking away is a privilege, or I can't look away because, you know, I want to, I want to see what's happening and I want to pour my compassion out into it. And. I don't think we do that on social media. And I think the, like the, like watch what's happening in your body. If you are like reading the news or if, and, and like scrolling on social media and your, your body will tell you like when you're witnessing and when you're [00:05:00] drowning.
Eva: Yeah. Well, I mean, even as we were talking last night, you said something that I thought was important because we were talking about how there's what's going on in Israel and Palestine right now. And there's what's going on on the internet with like, you know, like with, and those are two separate fucking things.
Like those are. But, like you said, they get conflated, and, and I think that's why sometimes when people are like, overwhelmed by what they see in social media, on social media, um, they're like, it closes them off, I think, to, and that feels overwhelming and icky and gross and infuriating, then it closes us off to actually what's really happening, do you know what I mean?
Kyley: Right. Which happens I think in our hearts, right? It's like, how can [00:06:00] you like, how can you pour love out? Into the world. How can you like supercharge your prayers with like love and safety? And I think it's from like, really like living from your heart and the static and noise of social media is not going to help you nine times out of 10 sit in your heart.
Eva: Yeah, but you know what's so weird to me? This new thought that's coming in is like, we live in, you and I. talking about a very, um, niche issue because it only applies to people who are on social media,
Kyley: That's true. I would. Yes. Right.
Eva: you know, I'm like, I'm, yeah, we like, so I'm assuming there's people on here who listen to the podcast anyway, some of you, some of you are obviously online, um, and that's how you find us and some of you, some of you don't actually have social media accounts and, you know,
Kyley: or don't do this stupid thing where you check it eight times a day because it's where you [00:07:00] work,
Eva: exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So,
Kyley: Eight times a day. Okay. It's more like 800. It's,
Eva: yeah, totally. Yeah. It's like, you know, yes, exactly. We're, we're, we're on there a lot. And I don't know why that feels important to know. It's just like, there's also this thing where this is a very, yeah, it's a very, it's just interesting how the social media thing has, is, is it's own problem in itself that also,
Kyley: well, I think you would also extrapolate out to news too, right? Like, I think, like, I'm not someone who watches news even, but, um, but I think that there's a similar, there's a similar thing that can happen there.
Eva: yeah. I
Kyley: Um, so
okay. So I, I want to, I want to. I do want to talk about the topic we picked for today, even though, and that might end us back up with the state of the world.
But, um, I think the 1 thing I just want to say before we [00:08:00] pivot is, um, the thing that I keep finding most nourishing as, you know, we have all this heart, terrible heartbreak in the world is, um. And the thing that I find most nourishing and also that I think has the most impact is to be in intimate conversation with people who, you know, will hold you in integrity and also hold your heart to, and not to close your heart to what's happening, you know, and, um, and figure out what that means for you.
But. Like, keep your heart open because I think cynicism and despair, um, are the two, it's really easy to fall into one or the other. And I think that that only reinforces the kind of really horrible systems of violence that have got us here in the first place. And so I just think that's
Eva: [00:09:00] can you, can you speak to what you mean by keeping your heart open though? Like an example of that? Because I'm already seeing like, that can mean, and I, and I mean this in a, in a beautiful way. Like I think there's a lot of different ways in which we can keep our heat, our, keep our hearts open. And I, and I'm sorry.
Actually, oh, can I, can I take a stab at answering that question first? Because I, I think what I'm, what I see a lot of, which like gets me really down and it's understandable, but a lot of messages of like, humanity is trash . Like, like people. These like really cynical, sometimes like funny, but funny as a mask for maybe what's really pain, is like people, like humanity is just disgusting and what, what's the point of even life?
Like, get me the fuck out of here. You know, like, I'm ready to be, for this all just to be over because humans suck.
Kyley: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.[00:10:00]
Eva: I mean, I get it. I get it. I've said the same thing, you know, in times of, in jest of being like, okay, aliens, I'm ready. Like, just come get me.
Kyley: Yeah. I didn't see nothing funny there. It was like, if aliens invade, I'm
defecting to the alien side.
Eva: exactly. Yeah. I get it. I get it. But I don't know, that makes me really sad because I don't actually think humanity is trash.
Kyley: Well actually I think humanity is trash and humanity is like overwhelmingly full of love. I think it's both. I actually think we are horrendous and terrible and we are really incredibly overflowing with love. I think it's both.
Eva: I think it's both. But when I say, when I hear people say like, Oh, we're trash. I guess my takeaway from that, it's like, Oh, it's just all bad.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Eva: and like, we're doomed. Like, like, there's no recovering from this. fucked ourselves. And I'm like, I think there's a, I actually think that we are on the rise of consciousness.
If [00:11:00] anything, if anything, I'm like, yes, like, let's not deny the horror, like the, the, the trash that that is. And also, yeah, it's not the full story. Like, I think there's, If I could put like math on it, I feel like it's at least 51 percent positive, like 49 percent trash. But I don't actually think that, I think it's actually, my like optimistic mind is like, I think it's, there's more, I think there's more love.
Kyley: So, okay, I don't know that I agree or disagree, because I think what I'm feeling is, how do you keep your heart open is that you are with whatever your heart is feeling, and maybe your heart is fucking pissed, you know? Like, I've been speaking a lot to grief, because that's what I keep feeling, I just keep feeling like, just... Like, before we hit record, I, I, I was cried again. Like, I just, that's my overwhelming emotion for the [00:12:00] world is grief. And I also think there's some people who feel fucking pissed, right? That are like, what are we doing? That this is the world we've built. Like this is trash. This is entirely unacceptable and that they feel really, really angry. And. I don't think that's the wrong. I do. I do not think that rage is inappropriate. I do not even think the disgust is inappropriate. Like it is disgusting what we, what we do to each other and what we continue to do to each other.
Um,
Eva: But I don't think that like that, that pissed off ness is, is trash.
Kyley: right, right. No, no, I know. I know. I think what I'm speaking to though is like your question about keeping your heart open. I think keeping your heart open is that if you feel pissed. Then your heart is angry and be angry.
Eva: Oh yeah, well, but, yes, but, but, to me having, being angry is having your heart open.
Kyley: Yes, I
know. I know you. So, okay, I know you know that, but I'm speaking to the person who's listening who feels like, but maybe you maybe there's someone who does really identify [00:13:00] with the meme of like, everything is terrible and everyone's trash. And... Then because we create these binaries feels like, okay, well, if my heart's open, then I have to be loving and peaceful and
I have to reject,
Eva: see
Kyley: uh, and I think if you identify with those memes or that sentiment, then I think the question is actually, how can you be, be a heart open?
How can your anger be heart opening?
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: Instead of cynical, right? So I think grief can turn into despair where we're like, well, nothing can ever change. And this is horrible and sad. And we're just like drowning in it. And I think that anger can turn into cynicism, which is like cold and vicious and like, well, humanity's trash.
And I think the really nuanced thing is how can you sit in your grief or your rage or whatever other thing might be coming up, but let it be heart opening. Cause I think despair and cynicism are a heart closing.
Eva: Yeah, totally. Oh, so well said.[00:14:00]
Kyley: Thanks.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. And so I love that distinction. And that does really answer my question of like, okay, so what is,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: it's like, that's one version of what happened to having your, like what your heart open looks like versus heart closed. Like the emotion could be the same, but then our response from that emotion, I think is the difference of.
If our heart is open or closed.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think here's my question for you. If someone is feeling either cynicism, let's start with cynicism. Someone is feeling cynical, like, just like humanity's trash. This is the worst. Um, what, how do you, how do you pivot from away from cynicism towards heart open?
Eva: That's a really good question.
I'm sure I have a feeling. I can't wait to hear what you have to say because I feel like you're gonna be, I don't know, I just, I'm excited. I have a sense that you'll have some really beautiful wisdom for us, but [00:15:00] from my experience, and I used to be kind of a cynical person.
That's like the weird thing is I can really relate to this is that Um, I understand cynicism, and I think that has come, cynicism I think is a way of buffering, of
Kyley: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Eva: feeling the thing that we often really need to feel, and like we're resistant against it because it can feel, and I'll just speak for myself, like so overwhelming, like I don't want to fucking have to feel all of that grief, and Sadness.
And so I buffer and then I use cynicism as a protection mechanism. And so to answer your question of like, okay, so then how do we not become, I think it is actually going back to like keeping your heart open, which is like, Hey, I think we kind of have to feel the things, feel those things of like the sadness and the, and the grief and the maybe despair or, or whatever it is.
I think we have to feel it, but [00:16:00] also Um, here's another thing that I think, um, there was something else I was going to say, and it's kind of lost, gone, but I'm actually curious what you think, Kylie.
Kyley: Yeah. Well, okay. I think. We had a really, really beautiful conversation about all of this in my business incubator program the other day. And so I'm, um, kind of drawing on that wisdom a little bit too. Um, and I think, I think these toxic systems we are existing within that continue to create and replicate really tremendous harm, um, benefit from us feeling powerless, right? And [00:17:00] I'm about to say the thing that I always like, this isn't fully baked. I'm not going to say it. I'm about to say it.
So giddy up.
Eva: here we go, here we go.
Kyley: did trick ourselves into saying all the things, um. Uh, I truly believe that we are actually so much more powerful than we, than we have any idea that we are.
I really believe that. Um, part of the reason why I want to like rant about manifestation culture a lot is because I think it misses the mark and actually keeps, keeps such as tight, tiny lid on what we are actually even capable as in terms of like the ways in which I think we could actually change the world.
Um, and make,
Eva: I want, I want, sorry. I'm going to pause you right there because I think this topic alone is really important. And so, I want to like, make sure that we're keeping track, but I feel like I can't, we don't want to move forward before we answer this piece of like, what do you mean by that when you say that we are more powerful than we know?
Like, you mean as an individual?[00:18:00]
Kyley: Yeah, I think, um, both as an individual and as a collective, I believe that we, I believe that the way that we change the world comes from, comes from inside of us. I think we literally birthed it through us. And I believe that, um, I believe that the way that we are, I'm really struggling to try to put this into words. We exist, there's many layers to this, but I'm going to speak to one specific layer, the way that we exist within these systems of capitalism and violence and racism and sex and all of these terrible things that we exist within, they perpetuate an experience of being powerless, right? They, they are actually dependent upon us experiencing our own powerlessness over and over and over again.
And then that powerlessness as an emotion manifests, I think, as either despair or cynicism, [00:19:00] right? That's why I speak to both of them in particular in this moment because they are, there's a hopelessness to both of them, right? One is... kind of sad wet blanket hopelessness and one is like knife's edge hopelessness, but it's the same thing of like, I have no fucking chance to change any of it and it's terrible.
And then it just depends on which flavor of that is most alive for you. And probably for some of us, it's, we get both at the same time. Um, but the way things actually change is that we change on the fucking inside, right? The way that things actually change is that we. Unhook ourselves from these, these perpetual systems of disempowerment and, um, and sacrifice and extraction. And right. We are like perpetually hooked in and replicating systems of either extraction or being extracted from and. And I, [00:20:00] I experienced how much this work that you and I could kind of cycle deeper and deeper into part of it isn't, you know, use the word sovereignty all the time. Part of it is this unhooking from that very cycle of extracting or extraction from right being extracted from and and the deeper we stand in that and the more of us that more deeply stand in that. on some level, then these systems actually have no one to extract from anymore, right? There's like no fucking fodder anymore. And I'm not saying that to like victim blame the ways in which we are all fodder in something that is like really tremendously terrible. And also it feels to me like the only option, like you, the only, Available path of how this changes, right?
It's like, we all just keep using the same fucking tools over and over again. We're going to keep building the same thing, right? But if we can keep, [00:21:00] like, falling deeper into our own,
Eva: Our own love, our own truth, our own sovereignty,
Kyley: and I think those words can feel hollow, right? They can feel like a, you know, like a inspirational poster on a guidance counselor's wall, right?
And,
Eva: think that that's, but I also think that, that it's it, you know,
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and so your question that you asked of like, how do we say heart open or what does that mean? I think, I think our open heart is where we are, like, that's the path by which you remember that we're powerful. And so if you're angry, I think your anger is actually your power wanting to return to you. And I think if you're grieving, that is actually like. Your tremendous love and empathy wanting to return to you, right? Like, like return to you, um, or live more deeply inside of you, whatever language suits you. Um, [00:22:00] and so I don't know how to wrap this up, but I think that's our only fucking choice. If we want the world to not be trash. I think that's literally our only choice. Oh, well, there you go. I said the thing
Eva: uh, I'm so happy you said the thing, Kylie, like, uh, podcast listeners, I feel like there's gonna be a lot of long silences in this episode, because I think, or I'll speak for myself, but I can just feel myself, like I'm processing in real time, and, I I'm, yeah, I'm processing and picking up things in real time, and I'm, like, confused, and there's, like, a lot just going on within me, and so I'm just, yeah, if you hear the long pauses, that's what it is, and I think what you just said was Like, yeah, I got teared up [00:23:00] because I think it's so beautiful and I'm so, I feel so grateful actually to just, to know you and I think it takes a lot of courage to say something like that.
And I know that that is your truth and yeah, to be willing, yeah, just to, just to say that you think that that is the answer of which I wholeheartedly believe and agree with. I don't know, it feels. brave in the face of a world that's telling you that actually the answer always is first to do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
And, and, and also the doing has to look like this. It has to look like social justice y like this, or it has to look like, um, you know, whatever philanthropy work like this or all the things. [00:24:00] And, um,
Kyley: or. There's also, there's also a whole bunch of like spiritual gaslighting, or like, like love and light bullshit. Right. Which is just like, don't look at the news and don't pay attention to the world and just stay quote unquote high vibe and just be, just be, be peace by only being happy and only looking at happy things.
And I think that's also tremendously toxic. And if I'm totally honest, probably my biggest reason for being afraid to say this more often and more vocally is because I'm really. My fear has been that it would be misinterpreted as
Eva: right, right. The being misunderstood piece. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah. And then I think that I think that the idea that we only look at the quote unquote positive is gross and harmful.
Eva: it's also keeping your heart closed.
Kyley: It's also keeping your heart fucking heart
closed. Yeah,
Eva: that's, that's a sneaky way in which, cause that's why I'm glad I asked this question, like what does it mean to keep your heart open and closed just because it can be sneaky, it's like, that can be, the love and light person [00:25:00] online can be perceived as keeping their heart open, but actually it's just another way of keeping your heart closed because you're not willing to see the truth of reality,
Kyley: Yeah. Or you're not
Eva: that there is immense suffering in the world.
Kyley: and you're not. And I think that, you know, when we try to choose quote unquote, high vibe or like what people call emotions, negative emotions, I grind my teeth because it's like, yeah, that's just more fucking rejection, you know? Um, I think also, since I'm saying things that are making me feel uncomfortable, this is, this is the thing that I believe about. The reason why I'm really madly in love with my alchemy program is because I actually think that we could actually revolutionize our collective experience of money, which is our collective experience of capitalism and extraction. Uh, and one of the like [00:26:00] primary ways in which we existed and replicate systems of harm is. This, like, deep liberate, if we, the more we can commit to liberating ourselves about money, that's where we fucking change the world. Right. As it relates to money, which is this hugely toxic thing in the world. And. I continue to figure, I struggle with how to sell, how to like, write copy for a program where I'm like, look, where you will not feel like slime anymore about money.
And also we actually burn down, like, this is how you burn down capitalism.
Right? This is how, is that you, like, burn through the ways in which it lives inside of you, and then you're fucking sovereign, and then, and, and it's not by opting out of the system, right, because there is no opting out, this is, we, this is it, we live inside of it, you can't, you really, I don't think can opt out of, like, we don't get to opt out of sexism, we are trapped in it, [00:27:00] but you can free yourself from it by falling beneath it, right?
Eva: Yeah, you can really free yourself from it. so something that you said, Kylie, that I think is really important, the I think, of what you were getting at is like, how do we make change in the world, essentially, right? Like, where is our actual power?
And I think, I'm still interested in this idea of like, what you mean when you say, because that was really my question, was like, what do you mean when you say that we're really powerful? Because I hear you say that a lot,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: and... And I think it would be helpful just to, like, unpack that, but also, more importantly, I think the thing that I think is really important is I think you're speaking to the truth that both you and I, like, live by, like, it's a deep value of ours, is to say, I think collective liberation comes, okay, I'll speak for myself anyway, [00:28:00] the language I would use is, like, I think collective liberation comes from personal liberation, and I think that Like, if I want to see peace in the world, I need to be peaceful, like, I need to find peace within myself.
And we say this all the time on the podcast, which is that, like, this is why
energy and time spent on own awakening, for lack of a better word, is actually like the most, like, to me, the most, there's nothing more, so it's practical, quote, unquote, productive. I don't even like these words that I'm using, but, like, thing that we can actually... impactful, yeah, thing that we can do. Um, and to your point, yeah, the scary thing is also like, and it's so scary.
It's so stupid. I'm like, I mean, the [00:29:00] scary thing is, I'm afraid it gets me interpreted differently by these other people. I'm like, who are these people? You know, it's always like this, this mob of people who I'm imagining, by the way, of like, they're out there and there's cancel culture. And they're going to be like, well, what are you talking about Eva?
Like, this is all too like, Light and lovey but you know when you were when I was saying like the truth really is like finding our own love and our own peace and our own sovereignty and you're like yeah and that can sound like a like a fluffy Instagram post but like that's it's it I don't it's
Kyley: and I think love is terrifying,
right? Like I wrote about this a little bit when I was doing my self love business school workshop is like, love is. Like love is bloody work, right? Like the, the, the, the journey to like love myself. And I, again, I can feel the part of me who's like freaking navel gazer, but like is [00:30:00] intensely, it can be intensely painful. And so it's not, it's not the choice to like, it is a willingness to go into the uncomfortable places, right?
Eva: Mm mm-Hmm. . But that's what love is. Yeah. It's like the willingness. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.
Kyley: the willingness to go to a place. And so, and I think, so to answer your question about us being powerful, you know, so like, I think that collective, I love your phrase, collective liberation is, you know. Individual liberation, and I sometimes feel like I think a phrase I've used sometimes is like the the revolution is an inside job, right? And what I mean by that is that the more deeply we embody I've been thinking about the for the Gandhi phrase quote. Be the change you want to see in the world. And I'm thinking about it a lot lately and almost laughing because I'm like, Oh, I, I, I've been misunderstanding this my entire life.
Eva: Dude, that is so funny because I've also been thinking about that quote and thinking about how cheesy it can sound, [00:31:00] and also how it's it
Kyley: Cause I, my whole life have been substituting do for be, I've said it properly,
but I have understood it as like, Oh, okay. Well then I need to go out and do all these actions. Right. But here's the thing. When you. Fucking embody something, then your actions flow from that place, right? So it being something and to prioritize being something isn't to absolve yourself of the responsibility of doing.
It's just to embody the thing first, right? Like you, so that your actions are charged with the very thing you want them to be charged with. Right. Um, And so, your teacher, Ama, was on our show just last week, and that interview, if people listened to it, I cried in the
Eva: Yeah. Go back and listen to It's so, so freaking good. She's
Kyley: I mean, we had to pause because I was like, I was, it was not like a, Oh, Kylie gets tears.
It was like, we [00:32:00] had to pause because I was just openly crying literally. It's because I'm a so deeply in my experience, so deeply embodied her medicine for the world, her particular signature of embodying love. Every word she spoke felt supercharged. There were points in that episode, at least Eve afterwards, there were points in that episode where I actually, my mind wasn't hearing the words she was saying because I was having such an intense physical response to, like an activating response to her speaking. Right. And that felt very, the only other time that happened is when I saw the Dalai Lama talk, right. Which was like, Oh, my body is receiving something in my mind, like plus or minus on if it, right. But the Dalai Lama, he just wasn't speaking English and they only translated like 30 percent of what he said.
Right. But it didn't matter. Um, [00:33:00] and that to me is an example of like, the more, the, if you become the change you want to see in the world, then. Your actions, your breathing is supercharged with that thing, right? So when I say like we're more powerful, part of what I mean is the more we fall into ourselves and become our signature version of like being love in the world, then that's the thing that we pour out.
We cannot help but pour out. It is inevitable. It is the inevitable outcome of us just breathing. And so the actions that we take and the words that we speak. Like I have, I think an effect and an impact it's so much bigger than we can actually even fucking understand.
Eva: Well, what I think is interesting about that is
I feel like a potential, um, argument against that. And I don't mean like a personal argument. It's like, I think, I [00:34:00] think it's like, maybe people will hear this and it might really resonate with you if you're listening. And then I feel like there's another sneaky voice that comes up within us that's like, Oh, but that's not enough.
Like that can't possibly be like, it's not, that's not enough. It's not going to do the thing that needs to happen. And I guess I just like, yeah, I want to speak to that because that's the tension. I think that I feel is like, yes, I know. This to be true in my bones because I've been affected by people who are so embodied, you know, like it's just a beautiful mind blowing and also very grounded experience when I'm in the presence of someone who like lives their truth so fully and like loves themselves and Therefore like loves other people unconditionally.
It's so fucking gorgeous that I'm like, oh, this is like what's possible [00:35:00] Um, but so I believe it in my bones, but then there's this other part and I don't know Maybe we can like dissect where this voice comes from of like, oh no, but that's not enough like it's Because I think we're trying to change the whole fucking world is actually like where my mind comes from.
It's like, no, no, no, we need to do something on like a bigger scale. Like it needs to be, you know, we need to start like an NGO, some type of nonprofit or some type of thing where, where then it'll really make a difference. And I think that's a very dangerous.
Kyley: Um, I'm cracking up because this not enough thing is literally, so before we recorded, I went for a walk in the woods and that was my prayer was about watching where not enough lives in my body and just, and I've been, I've been actually sitting with this for a little while, but last night in this morning, like really intentionally saying the prayer that was like, I am willing to let go of my commitment to not enough.
Like, I am willing to let go of my commitment that I am not enough. Um, [00:36:00] and,
Eva: do isn't enough, or like how it
Kyley: All the, there's like, there's, I mean, it, it, it, not enough loops for me in so many different ways. It's like, I'm not enough. I'm not doing enough. The work that I offer isn't enough. There's not enough time. There's not enough resources.
There's not enough space in my house. Like, it, it, it bombards me in all these quiet and loud ways all the time. And I've been really watching how like, yeah, because I am carrying that I'm fucking not enough. So I keep slamming into all these different not enough experiences because I am deep. I have been deeply committed to not being enough, right? For some reason that has been important to me for protected protection or whatever, like not enough has been a thing that I thought that I needed. And like, I'm laughing because like, right, like literally my prayer this morning was like, okay, all right, we can be done. I can be done believing that I can be done with this need for not enough and let's see what happens. And transparency, literally my prayer was like, I, the [00:37:00] record skips. I don't get how, I don't get how I let go of not enough. And also I'm willing, like I'm
willing and I'm a really big believer listeners in the I'm, I'm willing prayer and
then just put it out there and watch what happens.
Eva: yes, yes,
Kyley: Um, so I'm just laughing because you're speaking to exactly the thing.
So, okay. So there's kind of two per I'm going to speak to my own experience this week, cause I had this really profound experience earlier this week. and and this not, this not enough thing. And this other thing feel like the two. Sides of the car for me in this moment, and I think are exactly what you're speaking to of, I believe this and then also, but is it enough?
Right? And so I think the question of, is it enough for all of us is our collective and individual commitment to not being, for whatever reason, we think it is safer to believe we're not enough. And it is safer to be small, and it is safer to doubt ourselves, or it's safer to be mean to ourselves, or it's safer to maybe hate ourselves. [00:38:00] And. And that for some reason, believing that we are enough or maybe believing that we are more than enough is really fucking scary. And so I think that's where that comes from. I think we all, I think, and I think the part of being willing to be powerful enough to change the world is actually being willing to shed that commitment to not enough.
Eva: Fuuuuck.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: I mean, that makes so much sense. Okay, so much. I'm sorry. So much I don't want to say. Okay, even this podcast, because, so this is what happened. I'll tell, I'll share my internal experience about, about the episode that we want to record today, because basically, you know, the world's on fire or whatever.
There's all this. Fucked up shit going on. People are experiencing capital T trauma, and there's just a lot of suffering going on. Not anyway, and then anyway, so I'll keep it there. So [00:39:00] I didn't I was trepidatious about talking about going on because I didn't know if what I was gonna say was gonna be enough.
was also feeling very self conscious about like I'm still feeling self conscious. There's so many things I'm feeling self conscious about because I think that there's a way that I'm That part of me feels like we're talking, like, around the thing, I don't know, it's just the sense of like, I don't wanna, I feel insensitive being like, talking, I don't know, about, I don't know, I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say, maybe Kylie you have a better sense of it, but anyway, just the sense of like, I don't know if, um, yeah, this conversation is Is and how and how I've how much I've processed it is enough.
Um, I don't know. So that that already just feels significant because I can just see how that just holds me back in ways that I was [00:40:00] trying to be mindful and I wanted to make sure that any conversation that we had would be, um, I didn't want to just like speak, you know, and just and have like, nothing helpful to say, and to add more noise into the ether.
Um, but I don't know. I guess I'm just tracking all the ways in which I feel like just even my personal experience. isn't enough.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: And then the second thing that I thought was really helpful was like, yeah, so if we undid the story of not enough, how would we show up in the world? And Yeah, I just think it would change everything.
And I, and I feel like because I have a personal, um, experience, I have, you know, the personal experience of experiencing someone who's like, Oh, I think, you know, I talked about my friend, Tom, a [00:41:00] lot. And I don't think that he has a story of not enough, which is why he's always it. Willing to ask the like the quote unquote dumb questions like the questions that maybe other people would be like afraid to ask and also There's just no shame and there's no guilt there And when we don't have like shame or guilt we show up so fully and presently in the situation Because there's nothing to hide from and there's no threat
and I see how oh that actually works. Like that's what works is undoing the story of not enough or the shame or the really it's like for me it's shame um makes me so available for the world
Kyley: Yeah, right. Well, and if we believe, if we can actually embody that we are enough, I mean, a, I actually think that tremendously changes how we fucking treat the earth, right? Like if we actually [00:42:00] can embody that we're enough, our whole relationship to resources shifts,
right? The way they show up, the way we use them, the way we experience them, like,
Eva: oh my
Kyley: which is
Eva: you're like blowing my mind right now are you even talking about like when you say resources are you talking about even just like consumption of items yeah
Kyley: absolutely. I mean, like, think about like, okay, think about. A lot of people struggle with binge eating, right? Binge eating is in some way your relationship to enough and not enough, right? You feel like you're enough. You feel like your emotions are, like you're not enough for your emotions. Like a lot, there's a lot of layers here, but on some level that is a relationship to resources and enough too much, not enough, right? And that is like, That's the same thing that we replicate out into the way that we are burning the earth because of this collective, because of this kind of collective psychosis about enough, [00:43:00] not enough hoarding resources being extracted. Right. It's like this whole cycle of enough, not enough is the very pattern that we're playing out as we destroy the earth. Right. And so this is also where I say, like, when we, and so I'm gonna use money as an example, though, because obviously this is like a big place where this, this plays out. Right. And so when we chase this, when we chase to get enough money without tending to this enough internal enoughness story. We never actually experienced that we are enough.
We never actually experienced that we have enough. Like we continue to loop on more and needing more and, and a dissatisfaction. And so then what are we pouring out into the world? But we're continuing to pour out. Not enough, not enough, not enough, right, which continues to feed our kind of collective psychosis about like, like, but it's causing us to hoard resources, [00:44:00] kill each other, burn the earth, right?
It's like it, it is this internal relationship to what if you were enough and, and therefore. enoughness showed up differently. And, and as I say this, transparency, I can feel all the ways in which I want to make it real clear, like there's real fucking harm that's happening because of our collective commitment to this shit, right? Like, this is not to say just. Change, just snap out of it and then everything changes. And also you manifested your suffering.
No, I do not mean that. I mean, like collectively, I think we have created something that is insane. And the only way we can disentangle it is to disentangle it from within ourselves. I just think that's actually the only hope that we have.
Eva: Well, it's not only the only hope, but it's the only way. How do you disentangle something outside of yourself if you haven't disentangled it yourself? There's just no way. There's [00:45:00] no fucking way. Like, and this isn't about perfection, I think, because the minute that I say that, then I'm just like, I think it can get misconstrued or distorted to be like, well, then I have to like, be the perfect spiritual being so that whatever, so that my actions have value or whatever.
But it's like, I think it's like, but it's, it's true in that maybe, like, meaning you don't, let's have some self compassion here, this isn't about getting it perfect, but also notice how in every moment where you get more free or where you're not hooked into something anymore that you don't actually believe is true, like just these little tiny moments that happen on a moment by moment basis and over time and, yeah, it's um, yeah.
It becomes powerful because you don't have to do, I don't want to say you don't have to do anything because again, that can also get misconstrued because the doing I think it's actually just becomes natural and it's actually not a ton of efforting. But it's like, I do think [00:46:00] that there's something a little bit hypocritical, if I dare say, about insisting an outside system change when we haven't actually changed it with ourselves.
I think,
Kyley: And
Eva: no, just, yeah, can,
Kyley: I couldn't love that more. And I also think sometimes often that happens because we are at a fucking loss as to how to change it within ourselves. So the only option that we see is, is the doing right. We don't actually, we haven't been taught. We don't have easy access to being, to embodying the change we want to see in the world.
So the only thing that's available, because that's what we're fed all the fucking time, is the doing and the doing and the doing. So we just keep fixating on the doing and the fixing and the outside of myself, right? So like, okay, well, I'll feel safe with money if I get more money. And guess what? You have more money.
And like, materially, you are safer. Emotionally, it's the fucking same thing, right? I will feel more love. Loved when I [00:47:00] have a partner, Oh, wait, now I'm just projecting the same pattern, right? It's like, we're just in these same fucking cycles. Um, but we have been, we've been taught fixing instead of falling into and embodying. And so if, if you are, if you are, if you find yourself resonating with this and also feeling like, but I don't know how that's totally valid because you haven't been taught. I think most of us haven't been taught, um, Okay, I have one more thing to say. I'm so fired up.
Eva: So, but I don't want to like leave people hanging. So like, so then what will happen? So what do you suggest if we haven't been taught or like what's been helpful for you?
Kyley: Okay. Um, part of me is like, well, you hire you or me,
Eva: Dude, that's exactly
Kyley: which I recognize is self serving and, um, this is the thing I'm really good at. So I will offer that like,
that's, that's, that's a path, right? Is that [00:48:00] you, you hire someone who knows how to not only practice this, but hold space for other people to practice it.
Eva: yes, okay. So yeah, I think When I asked that question, I wasn't like, yeah, I think that's true but I think really what you're speaking to is like what has been helpful for me is being Um, seeing other people model this for me and seeing like, oh, this is how it can be done and this is the other way. And also seeing how fucking effective it is and being like, oh, this exists.
Like you, we can, like the being thing, like not only is this person so much in their fucking being, but I also see that it's, it's, it's very effective. And so I guess speaking to your point, it's like, yeah, it's not modeled for us. So
Kyley: Seek out the models.
Eva: seek out the models. Yeah. The people who feel like. Resonate [00:49:00] with you and like, and your integrity and your values and whatever that may be, because, and then that just speaks to, I think what we're talking about is how a person's beingness is so powerful that it has these ripple effects and it does actually help other people,
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: but
Kyley: just, I'm just soaking that up, right? How much it is. Once again, it's like how it's, I'm watching the cycle of our beingness is sent set. Like, literally, I see it. It's like sending the medicine out into the world and also is the model, right? So it's. And so once again, it's not about our doing because by just existing, we model and pour out into the earth and we model and pour out into the earth, but it's not an extractive.
It's not an extraction or an exhausting pouring out because it is the
Eva: a natural, it's a natural reflection of what, who, who and what we are.
Kyley: Yeah, it's, it's free of effort because it's just who you are. Right. [00:50:00] Yeah.
Eva: So, but I want to, I do want to go back to this point that I made earlier about being hypocritical about like expecting change, seeing like, this is why it doesn't work. This is why like focusing on the external, like primarily. So like basically what you're saying, which is something that we say a lot on the show is that like the being is primary.
The doing comes as a natural effect of the being. So there's still doing, it doesn't mean you sit on your ass all day. It comes. Organically and up it also. It's secondary, right? But I think it's so and this is what I see that, like, just really, uh. Gets my goat, as they say. It's like, we are all,
and I'm, I'm guilty of this, so I can speak to this, it's like, and I said this to you earlier, Kylie, and I was quoting something from Leah Garza, former guest on the show, someone who we adore, I just, I love her work, um, [00:51:00] she was talking about, okay, and I'm gonna like, read this quote again, hold on, let me pull it up on my phone, she was talking about, okay, Leah Garza, her Instagram is, um, Crystals of Altamira, is that what it is?
Kylie, do you remember? Yeah. She was talking about like, um, look, when you see some behavior you don't like in someone else, to lean in and see the ways that you are similar to what you don't like, how that harm has been perpetrated by you. Like basically we're all mad because the war, because the world's at war and there's all this violence going on.
But how can we expect to dismantle external violence if we haven't dismantled internal violence within ourselves? Like, we are so violent with ourselves, and then that violence gets projected out onto other people. Probably the people who are closest to you, and also maybe then on the internet, or whatever.
But like, that's... why the world is the [00:52:00] way that it is, and I want to be so careful, by the way, because I don't want to go into, like, blaming and being like,
Kyley: Right.
Eva: um, But I think there's also something to be said about taking responsibility. It's, it's, it's another way of saying, like, be the change that you want to see in the world.
It's taking responsibility for, like, if we don't want, you know, colonialism and capitalism and sexism to, like, run the world, then we have to find a ways in which we are no longer participating in that. Within ourselves. And then when we can be that, that's the thing that ripples out and makes the change that we are talking about.
And I think that it can be kind of painful to see the ways in which we do that, um, internally.
Kyley: Yeah. I really love what you're speaking to, and one of the things that I've been thinking about is how [00:53:00] we are each, I think each one of us has our own kind of signature, if you will, of, of love, right? Of, of, of, of each one of us is embodied love and each one of us has our own signature of it, right? The way in which you are a deep, profound embodiment of love is a different energy than mine.
Even though they vibe well together. Um, and so one of the things that I've been thinking about is to this phrase of be the change you want to see in the world. And to what you're speaking about, about, you know, dismantling systems internally is what is it that you see is most needed in the world or your world? And then how can you become that? So the whole example I gave about enough. It's because I've been watching that because I've been real, I've been watching how much the first time [00:54:00] I really saw it clearly was probably a year ago when I was trying to get my kids into their car seats and they were like, you know, doing their kid thing and hollering.
And I said, can't you just, can't you see that I'm trying my best. And I heard, as I said it, I heard that that's a thing that I say, I say all the time, I had been saying all the time. And as I heard that, watching them just be fucking kids, right? And also how exhausted and tired and sad I felt that I was like, can't you all see that I'm trying my best?
And was like, well, clearly I can't, if this is the thing that I keep saying over and over again. Meaning. My life was holding up a mirror to me around not enough, right? And how all the deep ways in which I have was experiencing not enough to show me that that's the change I need. The change I need is enough. That change I need is to experience the kind of relief of more than enough. [00:55:00] So then my assignment is to figure the fuck out how to become and embody more than enough. And what does that mean? And so you can look out into the world. So another thing I've been doing is like, okay, when I feel into the world, I want. Safety and reprieve, I, that's like, that's just feels like the loudest thing to me is like reprieve for what's happening in, in the Middle East. And so how can I call into my body reprieve. And I've been, been watching my own restlessness and my own, like, you know, the violence of sitting down and then immediately like twitching to go do some other thing.
Right. And, um, and. Uh, and, and so, so that's also where I think, you know, your point, it's hypocritical to try to only change the outside. And I want to kind of articulate a little more clearly how you can basically figure out what it is you need to embody is [00:56:00] like, where's the deficit? Where are you experiencing deficit, either when you look out into the world or in your own world? And then how can you figure out how to embody thing that you are in need of
Eva: I love that way to bring it back to the practical girl like this is what we do yes
Kyley: learn from the past? Transcribed
Eva: okay I really love this look out into the world and where do we experience the deficit and then you also said something else earlier could it also be where do we yeah I would also say I just love this so much this this is this practical way of like looking out into the world and then being like, okay, so that's something that we're missing or then, then, then we bring that in for ourselves, you know, be the change that we want to see.
But I also think it's like, where are you the most triggered? I feel like that's where I want to go. Like when I'm out and I'm like, what am I triggered by? Like, and what about this is really fucking just. Getting under my skin and [00:57:00] there's, and there's, you know, that'll usually lead me to like a really juicy place and be like, okay, well, it's because I'm not, yeah, I don't know, I can't think of any examples right now, but I could see how that could be really, really good groundwork for me of just exploring, like,
yeah, where there's more liberation available.
Kyley: There's one other story is something that happened this past week that I referenced, but didn't tell the story of, and I think it ties in, even though I don't know exactly how, um, so as listeners might know, I have. Big initiation for me for a while now has been watching how I place all these conditions on receiving love and unhooking from them. And that includes loving relationships, that includes resources, that includes time, support, all sorts of ways in which I, um, basically have been buffering on allowing love into my life. Um, At the depth that I know that I can feel that it is available, [00:58:00] right? There's like a disconnect of like some part of me is like, no, there's a lot more love here that you're just not letting into your system. You're not allowing yourself to receive. It's kind of that moment that people might have where you intellectually know someone loves you, but it's hard to feel or like someone gives you a compliment and you immediately squirm away from it.
Right? Or like someone writes you a card to say, thank you. That meant so much. And you kind of watch your body deflect instead of really absorb it. It's that kind of energy that I've been trying to. Allow to soften. And so a big part of that is like, okay, well then it's me. Being willing to love myself unconditionally, right?
Cause other people are already showing up loving me and can I love myself unconditionally? So in this moment, I don't even remember what actually like, Oh, I do remember. I had this really beautiful, I mentioned my mentor, Will Wise, who died two years ago, there's a group of us that still meet and kind of continue to practice teaching and learning and holding each other in the way that he modeled for us. Um, [00:59:00] and. We had this really moving conversation kicked off something for me about unconditional love, and as it kept rolling along in the evening, I was sitting in the parking lot of the grocery store and somehow it came like rushing in like the tide that, because one of my questions is always like, well, why don't I love myself?
Like, what do I just like? Just do it. Just love yourself. Damage Right,
Eva: the irony of that, Mm hmm,
Kyley: right. And what I saw. This is back to what you were saying about perfectionism. What I saw so clearly is that no matter what happens, I will find a way to love myself and that the history of my life. Which I have up until this point kind of made a story of all these ways that I have abandoned myself and all these ways in which I fail to love myself is actually a history of someone who [01:00:00] relentlessly figures out how to love herself. And every time she finds a place where there's a deficit is like, all right, well into the discomfort because we've chosen love. And I was like laughing, crying in my car because I realized, Oh, I do love that's unconditional love. Unconditional love is not perfect love. It is this, like, infinite commitment that no matter what, I will find a way to love myself. And, like, my whole world could get completely upended in the most heartbreaking way. And it would suck. And I would. Figure out how to, I would figure out how to get, get to a place where I love myself through that. Right. And in that moment, I could feel how much I've been efforting to like, prove to myself that I love myself, but actually have just been loving myself all along.
And [01:01:00] like the whole edifice just started to crumble. It was like, Oh, I, I, I'm already doing the thing. One of the pains that I come back to again and again, if listeners listen to my like, you know, adoption story episode is abandonment, right? And so I have this like tremendous anxiety about like, not Trump, it's, it's deep, it doesn't show up loud. It doesn't show up in the mind as much as the deeper Russians.
But anyway, I had this like reoccurring thing about like the fear that underneath the fear is keeps going back to abandonment. And I was again, like laughing because I was like, well, if I will always, if I have always chosen to love myself, and if I will always choose to love myself, then I actually have never abandoned myself and I can know that I will never abandon myself. that whole thing just starts to starts to crumble.
Eva: mm
Kyley: And in its play, and so then in its place, kind of what, [01:02:00] and then what's risen up immediately afterwards is like, great. Now, what if you were enough? What if you were more
than enough? Right? Because if you already love yourself and you're no longer have to worry that you're going to be alone and abandon yourself, then what if you could just be more than enough? And I want to give that example because. I think we are already the thing that we need and I think I just want to give an example of how the reactionary kind of violent scaffolding that we kind of trap ourselves in literally just crumbles away when we fall down deep enough into the thing. And then we are no longer, the more this integrates, I can see how like. Oh, there's all these ways that I have been violent to myself or other people because I'm afraid of being abandoned, but if I just no longer have that fear that I no longer need to play out that drama, and [01:03:00] then that's just
different in the whole world is Gone.
Eva: It's gone. It's, it's no longer. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. Uh, and this is what I, okay, so I think you're, I have a lot of stories, like, so fucking awesome and so, okay, because I think you are, you, you are, uh. There's just so much to say here. You were like, oh, this felt really profound, but I don't know if it's going to be as profound as when I talk about it, but I actually, I think the importance of this is twofold, at least what I'm catching is like, it's that we have these milestone moments or these aha clarity moments, sometimes where we see something just so clearly.
And I think what you were seeing that moment is like, oh, wait, I do love myself. Like, for so long holding on to the story how, how I don't love myself, or therefore, and therefore I'm doing something wrong. I felt like what I'm sensing is this big aha moment, like, wait, holy shit. Like I do love myself. And it's this realization of, and it's like my other teacher, Pilar Lesko, she talks about this moment where she realized like, oh, I got me, like I got myself.
And [01:04:00] that is like a huge revelation. If after 30 something fucking years, the whole time you've been telling yourself that you need to like, work more to love yourself when you actually, it's almost like, I don't know if it felt like heartbreak medicine, but there is a heartbreak in this idea of like, oh, you've been thinking that you've been doing it wrong the whole time, but look, I've had your fucking back the whole time.
Like that's huge. Do you know what I mean? And I, and I get that. I get those moments. Like I've had some moments of seeing just like, yes, how, anyway, I won't get into it, but just, so I just want to like, Acknowledge that and note that for, I think, the beautiful breakthrough, aha, whatever that, that, that moment is.
And then this piece about how, like, the second piece is, like,
there's a way in which things change in which you don't have to effort for something to change. We talk about this on the show, or at least I think I have, where things just kind of fall. off. Like [01:05:00] when we were talking about the no longer, it's like, there's nothing to be in conflict with anymore. And I think this is what people talk about, like with the spiritual liberation thing is that this is why it's, it's never, it's less a, well, it's a paradox.
I was going to say it's less of a becoming and more of an undoing. And then it's all, you just keep on doing and doing and doing and doing until you're left with just whatever's left over. And, but that's weird because I guess that is a way that is kind of a becoming, but you're just becoming more of yourself, which is like, You know, they talk about peeling with onions, or peeling, peeling with a layer of the onions.
Kyley: because it's just false layers. There's just a bunch of layers of not self,
and then there's this like raw essence that is
you, that in some ways I think we don't even know what the fuck it is because if we're have like too many layers, right. I'm constantly surprised that I'm like, oh. Like I hit this huge aha a while ago.
I was like, Oh,
Eva: Totally.
Kyley: not nice.
Eva: Yeah. Totally.
Kyley: Right. Like that's not true of [01:06:00] me. Anyway.
Eva: Ugh. Anyway, I just, I do think that you're speaking to, like, this is what the experience is. It's, it's, it's an un, it's a constant undoing until you realize, and then it becomes, I want to be careful of my language, but I do think there's an effortlessness in, like, the undoing, because you don't have to fight against anything anymore.
Kyley: Yeah. It's a willingness, not an efforting.
Eva: Mm. Ugh. Like, just a willingness, not efforting. Ugh. Oh, okay. Well, I'm really happy that we ended up having this conversation,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: even though God, I mean, honestly, this is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. I feel like maybe there'll be a part two because I feel like there's, I feel like this has just been so helpful for me, Kylie, I have to say, and I feel like you really brought the juice today and I just want more, like, I want to dive more into this.
So, we'll see how it goes. Mm
Kyley: Yeah. I'm, I'm really grateful for, [01:07:00] you know, I'm I'm grateful for the space and I'm great for us to hash this out together. And I'm grateful for our listeners for, you know, I just think the world is. There's a lot, tremendous amount of suffering in the world, and I think the tools we've been given are inadequate. So let's all go into the fucking muck and make better tools so we can make a better experience. Like, I just keep having this feeling of like, if what, we can't use what got us here to get there,
and so I, I, I think this is I know this is what I have to offer, you know, this is the, this is what I have to offer and I think it's there for whoever wants to fall into the slime and become love.
Eva: Yeah. [01:08:00] Okay, should we do our joy?
Kyley: Yeah, let's do it. You want to go first.
Eva: No, you go first.
Kyley: Okay. Last night. I had a console call that got canceled, which I'm very excited about, but I was also kind of jazzed that it got rescheduled because to the medicine of not enough, it created time, it created an enoughness for time that I was really hungry for. Um, and so that felt like a little wink from the universe.
And I spent a couple of hours in my backyard reading in my hammock while my kids played in the backyard. And I felt. So peaceful and I felt so grateful and I felt so sad for the mothers that are having the very opposite experience right now in the world. And I just felt all of it. And um, it was really beautiful.[01:09:00]
Eva: You know, we were sharing that.
Kyley: Emily, you let's bring in you joy.
Eva: Let me sit with this for a moment.
Kyley: Timeout. I might have something that will bring you joy. Hold on a second. You want to come in birdie? Come here. Do you want to say hi to Eva?
Eva: Yeah! Wait, what did she say?
Kyley: even be on my podcast
for
Eva: Hey! Oh, she can't hear me. Can she hear me?
Kyley: Yeah. Birdie.
Eva: I just want to say hi if you can hear my voice. Thanks for watching! I love you.
Kyley: the door. All right. Birdie. Bye.
We love you.
Eva: We love you. Aw. I mean, even that was sweet. Um, okay.
Kyley: Oh, she did just say, I love you. Yeah. Do you want to, do you want to say that into the microphone birdie? No.
Eva: Yeah. It's like, no worries. No need to, no need to force it. So, this week has been a little bit of a wonky [01:10:00] week. And there's, I don't know, it feels like there's a lot going on. With also not a lot going on. I, I, I mentioned in last week's episode, for those of you who may have missed it, that I'm moving.
And so, yeah, there's just a lot going on in the background. Or actually the foreground of my life that I haven't really spoken about. But I will say... I think I just feel really loved and appreciated by some of the people here in Austin, um, in a way that I wasn't letting in, like, as you were speaking to previously, Kylie, and it feels so lovely and sweet, I think, to be able to let that in as I'm about to, like, make that exit.
I don't know. It's just... Um, to, I don't know, when you're appreciated and cared [01:11:00] for in a way, it feels very humbling, I suppose. I don't know. I feel like I'm being, I'm being a little bit vague, but let's just say I feel loved by the people here in Austin and I'm grateful for that.
Kyley: And I also really love you speaking to the experience of being loved as being humbling because I, I really relate to that.
And I think, I think one of the reasons we sometimes are afraid to let love in fully is because there's this like, who am I to receive this love, uh, thing that can happen. And then I think when we actually let it in, I am perpetually humbled by it. I'm just perpetually humbled by how much I am loved by the people who love me.
I think it's a beautiful,
Eva: Yeah. All
Kyley: really great paradox.
Eva: right, dear listeners, we love you so much. Thanks for coming with us on this [01:12:00] ride and for this. Right. That is just never ending. This great adventure continues.
Kyley: Thank you, everybody.