This week's episode is a lovely investigation into our homes, what they might be telling us about our own heart, and how to more deeply weave the two together. Anjie Cho, a feng shui educator and long-time practitioner of Buddhist meditation, takes us on a journey through the spirituality of fung shui.
This week's episode is a lovely investigation into our homes, what they might be telling us about our own heart, and how to more deeply weave the two together. Anjie Cho, a feng shui educator and long-time practitioner of Buddhist meditation, takes us on a journey through the spirituality of fung shui.
Anjie -
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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Kyley: [00:00:00] Angie, we're so happy to have you on the show. Welcome to Hello
Anjie: Universe. Hi, Kylie.
Hi, Eva. It's so nice to meet both of you.
Kyley: So we're going to jump right in with our top of the show question, which is what is something that life is teaching you right now?
Anjie: Well, life is teaching me has been trying to teach me for the last year, actually. Uh, to tomorrow will be the anniversary of this, this thing that happened to be, I fell last year, right around this time, March, uh, in March.
And, um, [00:01:00] I cut my face anyway. Life is teaching. Okay. Back to what life is teaching. Life is teaching me that I need to slow down and there's no need to rush and that I need to take things one step at a time and take care of myself first. So, life is teaching me to take care of myself. Myself that, um, that I'm being too speedy and, um, to take some time and just walk slowly in the world.
Kyley: I love that. I can relate to that
Eva: deeply. Um, I'm pretty sure we all can. It sounds like you got the lesson like head on though, you know, like
Anjie: literally, Oh man, literally head on. I cut my, I fell on my face and I cut, I had a big, uh, I'd like. Uh, several stitches right here on right above my eyebrow. And then a month within a month, I fell again and sprained my ankle and [00:02:00] I literally couldn't walk for almost four months.
Eva: Oh my gosh. Wow. That's yeah. That's huge. Meaning at both times, I assume was, were you in a rush to get somewhere like how, what, what's the connection between that and, you know, the lesson of
Anjie: slowing down? Well, the first time I was. Not in a rush, but I was rushing. I didn't, I was early, but I was still rushing and I, and I was.
Anxious and kind of really worried about a project. And so I decided to run to catch the bus and I fell. And then, um, and then, you know, what's, what's the point in rushing? Because then you just, I had to go to the emergency room anyway. And, um, and then, and have a huge emergency room bill that I'm still working through.
And then, um. Within a month I fell again when I was walking very carefully across the street in [00:03:00] the same area, like just in front of my apartment building and I walked into a pothole and I twisted my ankle and then I wasn't able to do so many things that I normally do besides like walking. I couldn't go up and down the subway steps.
I couldn't meditate the same way that I used to, um, because I couldn't. Um, so there was many, uh, many different things that were, um, that that life is really teaching me to revisit. And then even, um, you know, later last year I had a big adrenal fatigue episode as well. So there's lots of messages. The universe keeps telling me like, look, like you need to slow down and we're going to make it so you literally can't walk.
Eva: I've had a very similar experience.
Oh, actually, you mentioned the adrenal fatigue and that's just been an ongoing thing in my life. I think the, [00:04:00] I think the lesson of slowing down is, um, uh, it's been so far lifelong.
Kyley: Well, that's actually kind of what I was going to speak to is that, um, I feel like life is also always telling me to slow down.
Um, and actually on a kind of related note, I had this, um, and this awareness drop in just last night. I was kind of offering up in a kind of as a prayer. Um, this feeling that I have been having lately of, um. Like it doesn't all fit, you know, like all the things that I either want to do or feel like I have to do Just in a sense like it doesn't fit and and where does it fit and I was kind of In the in past iterations because this is an ongoing thing.
This is my uh, Uh, I get that really scrambly like oh, no, I gotta wake up super early. I gotta stay up late I gotta like squeeze it in I gotta you know, I have 15 spare minutes I gotta make that mean something right and it's interesting because this moment I don't have that scrambly [00:05:00] Sensation of like, oh, no, I got to make it all work, but I can see, but I also, so there's a kind of calm that's settled in.
But then I am also watching how much it still doesn't fit, right? And so anyways, I was like kind of praying about that last night. And what I heard back was, yeah, it doesn't fit because it doesn't fit. Like, there are too many things that you are trying to make happen in a window that is too small. And, um, And yeah, that's why it doesn't work because it, you know, I got the image of, you know, trying to squeeze, you know, 10 pounds into a five pound
Eva: bag.
Which is an unkind thing that we all do to ourselves. Like when I see that, you know, sometimes I'm like, Oh my God, that's incredibly unkind because it's, I'm, I'm, I'm doing something that is going to make me feel shitty and it's impossible. And I'm setting myself for this impossible standard, but also, but I also think the, the conundrum of wanting to squeeze things in that is the, that's, that's the rush.
Like, it's kind of the same thing. It's like, the capitalistic urge
Kyley: just to do
Eva: more [00:06:00] all the time, even though, you know, sometimes you don't even know why.
Kyley: Well, and that's actually one of the things that's been interesting. And then I have a question for you, Angie, about all this is that there, this iteration of the, it doesn't fit because it doesn't fit actually doesn't have that unkind, right?
I don't actually feel that kind of. Um, I have a lot of compassion for like, Huh, this doesn't work, so show me how it works, Energy, instead of that like, I need to be the one to fix this, and so, I gotta just run faster until I get to the finish line. So it's been really interesting to watch this experience of A kind of compassion that has an energy of slowness, but that's still being like, but, uh, it's like when you're, it's like when you're molting, right?
You're like halfway through figuring something out. So you like have awful. I'm like, okay, well, now I have the compassion, but I still, the problem persists because I'm still, I still feel responsible to do too much. Um, but it's anyway, if that makes sense, but my question [00:07:00] for you, Angie, is it sounds like this time last year, you had some really big, loud, abrupt lessons on slowing down.
And I'm curious. If it's showing up now, gentler, if slowing down feels more useful and what's slowing down. What it actually looks like for you, because I think it can, it can mean or materialize in a couple of different ways.
Anjie: Um, well, I am continually learning to slow down all the time because I think that there is just, well, there's, um, there's part of me that it, that's part of my personality, right?
That's part of my, um, composition that I tend to move pretty fast. And then. In addition, the conditioning that we have in society to move fast and also my cultural conditioning as well, probably. Right. And all of that comes into play where it's always, it's always, it's always been a challenge for me to slow [00:08:00] down.
And so I did take some time to slow down. Because first of all, I physically had to slow down and then, um, and then I had that. Adrenal fatigue episode, which I've been suffering from for years, but I really kind of just tried to push through it. And and then as we're getting older, you know, there's this idea of like, well, I don't, you know, sometimes we don't want to like, fritter away our time or we feel like we're going to miss out on something, but then I've
Eva: I just remember in my 20s, like being in New York and my anthem was like, you know, I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Like, that's such a common saying, like you, you, whatever, why waste your time resting now? Because we have, it's, it's, it's masked as like an enjoyment of life. Like, let me, let me get as much life as I, out as I possibly can. So it almost sounds like glamorous and like, uh, worthy somehow, but it's actually completely
Anjie: unhealthy.
And it's very, and it's [00:09:00] often praised in our society. And, um, or, and it's also something I'm good at. So it's something that I kind of perpetuated, but at some point, um, what I, what I realized the turning point for me was that I was actually frittering away something that's much more precious, which is my life energy, my life chi that's very limited.
And so, um, that started to wear down and I realized that like, if I keep going this route, I'm really literally going to shorten my life. And so I need to stop. And and change that so so I did take some time off and it felt good, but it was hard and I realized there's a lot of other things involved. Like, you know, um, being okay with telling people with ignoring people.
Um, I ignore a lot of people, but there's a lot of people that I felt like I couldn't ignore. And so I had an excuse to say, no, I can't do this because I am. Working with an illness right now or, or my, I can't walk. [00:10:00] Um, and, um, and then what the universe does, which is really funny, is then they keeps giving me other things that I'm, oh, I really wanna do that.
And then I just thought, I'm like, how did I get to the same situation again? And then now I'm completely overwhelmed, even though I said no to a bunch of things. And so, um, so it's, it's a continual process for me. But, um, but I'm working through it and I'm, I'm trying to dig a little bit deeper and to see why I have this programming in place.
Like one of my healers talked about like having like a really like ancient story about, um, Feeling this need to really prove myself all the time in order to survive. And so I, you know, I just, she's like, Angie, you're like so successful. Like what's she's like, okay, in five years, you know, you're going to still be successful.
So why rush and do it now? You can do it in five years. Right. And I'm like, Oh, that's, [00:11:00] that's true. Yeah. So, so sometimes we think like everything needs to happen now and there's so. Many, like, wonderful things to that we have at our fingertips now. Like, for instance, like, I want to take like, you know, you want to take this zoom class or learn about this or do that.
Or, um, for me, it's classes like going to like, I liked, like, I take flower arranging classes. I'd study Japanese flower arranging. I, I studied Japanese tea ceremony. Um, And I like to go on meditation retreats and all of those take a great deal of time. I also go to ceramics class, right? And, and then I fit in work.
And so I have like a, I just always have like a really tight schedule. So, um, so I guess back to your question of what does slowing down feel like it's, I think it's constantly a pattern of noticing that I. Do this thing where I'm going on a circle and I'm going slow, but then I suddenly like, get faster and faster and faster.
And I need to like, realize, okay, wait, wait, put on the break. So I have to [00:12:00] consciously be aware or else I'll naturally just start going on this. Um, Going faster and faster and faster and accelerating and letting that inertia take over or not inertia, but the acceleration take over. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. I, I love a lot of things that what you're saying.
And I'm, I'm struck by, um, you know, you're know, you'll be successful. So why not give yourself, why not do it in 5 years? It's reminding me of a conversation I had. I just wrapped up this long, um, Yeah. Like, this container that I was holding for business owners just wrapped up yesterday and 1 of my favorite things about, you know, you're doing the reflection with the group.
And 1 of my favorite, favorite things that everyone's take the kind of common theme is everyone's speaking to. I don't have to wait for my joy. Right? And that so much of our, you know, in this instance, we're talking about. Business programming. But I think this applies to so many things. So much of our programming is like, I can [00:13:00] have the satisfaction or the rest or the joy or the peace or the whatever, fill in the blank when I have arrived at some place.
And so, so then when we have these moments of being really successful or accomplish, like, we don't, we don't, we don't savor it or we don't let it fully soak into us because, um, I know there's kind of like. Perpetual pursuit energy. Um, and, and I think there's some, I think one of the gifts when we're able to slow down is that some of those things that we think live in the future start to show up in the now.
They look a little different, right? They feel a little, they sound a little different, but, um, but I really love the idea of. Cause what I hear in your healer suggestion is like the ability to just actually sink deeper into your success rather than chase it. Cause it's
Anjie: already here. Yeah. And it's also interesting when you just slow down, like this is what, this is why I go to long meditation retreats.
Like I [00:14:00] try to go to a week long meditation retreat at least twice a year. And, um, Because it's it forces me to slow down. But what I realize is that so many things so many. Um, there's so many things that I again, fritter away my energy on. I ruminate on things so much. And so I'll go through that whole pattern when I'm at a retreat and then.
At some point you just get so exhausted because you have nothing else to do but ruminate on and think about stuff and then and some sick of your own shit. Eventually. Yes. So you do. You literally get sick of it and you're and then your brain doesn't function anymore. And then there's a lot of clarity that arises and then magically like things that I thought.
would not get resolved without my attention get resolved. Um, and then that's when I receive the most joy, the clearest insights and learn the most about myself from simply just [00:15:00] sitting in meditation for several days.
Eva: Yeah. I love this. I, this experience of things that you thought were going to be a problem just resolving in one way or the other, either because they actually got resolved or maybe, maybe your perspective change and you realize they weren't even a problem, but I think there's something really important about that because I actually think, um, I mean, this is not new, but.
Our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. So it's like I do think things get resolved because it's there. It's a match for what we are bringing into our consciousness and then what's like being reflected out there. So this is, I think the beauty of, um, and I think really like the core of a spiritual practice is it's not doing more or, you know, do doing the spiritual things.
It's like, no, it's, it's the finding like the balance within, and then I think everything else outwardly, you know, [00:16:00] follows, follows suit. And, um, it's just ironic though, because we're talking about being really busy. And that's that, like, this is the, this is the paradox. Like if the busyness that I feel like.
For me, I will speak for myself, the busyness, it feels like a trick. It's like, Oh, it makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. Like this is the thing that's going to give me the result that I need. And it, and it's, and, and, um, and to what you're speaking to Angie, it's going to make me feel safe. Cause I think really ultimately what I'm always looking for is a sense of like safety.
Um, but it's actually pretty ass backwards. I mean, I think we all know this and I think people listening all know this it's ass backwards because it's actually like the true resonance within that I think makes everything. Become not a problem. I really think that that's
Kyley: possible. Well, I think yes, the, the, what I was struck by when you were talking about the ruminating, which, you know, a girl can relate, is that [00:17:00] we ruminate or we're busy, because ruminating is just our mind being busy.
So we're either externally busy or internally busy. And, and it is. It is an attempt to, like, solve these problems or create these things or give ourselves these things. And also, I'm constantly shown how the energy is like, you know, the rumination is actually just all resistance, right? Your rumination you think is the you who's solving the problem, but she's actually the you who's just fucking standing in the way, right?
And that when we're able to, like, drop the rumination, when we're able to drop the busyness, I constantly experience kind of this. miraculous arrival of a solution. Um, if the universe is like, we've got it, we've got what you're looking for. Again, it might be different, but it's also the answer, but it is always, it's just the same lesson over and over again, right?
That the ruminating that the busyness, we do it in pursuit, but it's actually the resistance. It's actually resistance to the
Anjie: thing we want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My, um, from the [00:18:00] Buddhist point of view, they would say that it's entertainment. You're just entertaining yourself. And, um, All the rumination, all the busyness is, is, um, and is a distraction and it's entertainment and, um, it prevents you from getting to know yourself and, and actually prevents you from the Buddhist point of view, it's prevents you from actually experiencing the world.
You're creating a barrier between you and. Experience because you're, you're placing perceptions. It's like putting on rose colored glasses or black glasses or whatever. It's, it's, you're creating a separation between you and actual experience. And, um, and sometimes we also. Tend to think of it, um, like, from the, I guess, from the more modern perspective, [00:19:00] or maybe the more Western perspective, we look at, like, how do we deal with something directly?
Like, for instance, like, what during medicine, how do we deal with the, the symptom, whereas from the more holistic perspective, we look at, like, what's underlying and how does it affect everything else? So, so, um, we kind of want to, um. We, um, how there's something important about looking at what's underneath and taking away like what's just on the surface and with this idea of like, just entertaining ourself, like, well, what, why are we entertaining ourselves?
What are we distracting ourselves from? Yes,
Eva: I love
Kyley: that. I love that so much. And, and I, it reminds me of my, my kind of crew in spirit has many times before been like when I'm ruminating. Um, said this is just this is just a story that you're telling yourself why at the very least could you pick a story that doesn't make you miserable right like this is just a made up [00:20:00] game you're doing to pass the time this reading so at the very least my recruit was quite sassy like could you just pick something that doesn't make you fucking miserable
Anjie: but you know but sometimes also it can you know sometimes that's It's still not, it's not like totally bad because at least you're starting somewhere, right?
So like, for instance, a lot of people come to Feng Shui because it's easier to work on something outside of yourself than to work on something within yourself or, or people go to meditation because they want to be more productive at work. Right. So, and there's nothing wrong with that because that's like, that's like the That's introducing them to, um, yeah, yes.
That's the entry point. And then, and like with Feng Shui. Um, you know, Eva, you talked about like our inner and our outer worlds are connected like in feng shui by someone being interested in. Okay. I want to make my home look more peaceful or something. And they recognize maybe there's some kind of discontent there and then [00:21:00] they say, okay, well, maybe if I make a change in my home, I can then see a change in my life.
And then there's something that starts to kind of move in their way of thinking that they see. Oh. What I do affects my environment, what I do affects the people around me, what they do affect me, and it just starts to open up and create more permutations between, um, between us and them and really get people to start to hopefully question their, um, their relationship with themselves and investigate and become a little bit more porous and vulnerable what you're To hopefully create more compassion, ultimately, like that's, that's the intent, but sometimes, like, if, if all someone can think about is just like, I want to make my room look pretty, that's okay, and hopefully that that will lead to something [00:22:00] else.
And if not, that's okay, too. So, you know, we have, we also, you know, it's, it could be good. It's helpful regardless, but it's interesting. Like, ruminate on something so distressing. It wears us down. Again, it wears us down so much that then we get to a breaking point and and maybe are like non conscious mind does that so that we actually do get to that breaking point where we can't handle it anymore.
Eva: Yeah. Okay, wait, I want to I want to speak to this piece about why people come to Feng Shui, like, I, I'm all about pretty spaces like I want my spaces to be pretty I want them to be clean like that really matters to me and and there is nothing wrong with that. And I'm also wondering for you. Seeing that you've been in the practice of feng shui for so long now, I'm curious to know what your spiritual relationship with feng shui is.
You know what I mean? Beyond just like the surface of like, okay, this is, you know, you don't put a mirror across from [00:23:00] your bed or, or, or you don't sleep with your feet facing the door. I think, I think those are the things that I remember my parents telling me, um, you know, for more prosperity and more like, I think there's like, like, I love all of that there.
And I think there's, I think really fun. Um, I also think there's an element of superstition to it that can be unhealthy for me. Like, sometimes I'll be like, no, no, I can't have this here because that's not bad for me. But anyway, aside from that, I'm curious if you've. How do you feel you have, yeah, what your spiritual connection is around this practice?
Anjie: Yeah, um, that's a great question because The reason why I went, uh, I started studying feng shui was actually because I began a spiritual practice. So I'd always been involved with spaces. So I studied architecture and I worked in architecture and during my Saturn return, you know, in my late twenties, I realized, you know, something's got to some, I was really unhappy and something needed to change.
And I was actually visiting, uh, Thailand and it's a very Buddhist country. And I had like a Reiki [00:24:00] session. I didn't even know what Reiki was. And I had this Reiki session. It just happened, um, on accident. And I had a huge epiphany. Or it wasn't an accident. Exactly. Perfect. Yeah. Right. It was meant to happen, but it wasn't planned.
And, um, I had a huge epiphany that, you know, when I got back to New York, I would, I needed to incorporate more spiritual, um, practices in my life. So I started studying yoga and meditation. And then that naturally led to me. Being more curious about, well, I'm working all the time. How do I integrate this into what I'm offering the world?
And so, I mean, if you met me in my mid twenties, I was like a. Live to wait live work to live person. Like I just like couldn't wait to get out of the office. It's really was really pretty unhappy in general, but like really unhappy with my work and [00:25:00] and I and I just Just like I don't know I guess this what this is what life is about just getting up and going to work and being on miserable and then going back home, the New
Eva: York City grind, baby.
I know that.
Anjie: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, so then I was like, well, maybe I can look into this Feng Shui thing. And so I was really pleasantly surprised that There was much more too. And I think this goes for what everyone does. I think whatever you specialize in, if you go deeper, there's a deeper, there's a deeper meaning to it, whether it's, um, cooking or cutting hair or, or practicing feng shui.
So you can look deeper. And so over the years, you know, um, I have deepened my relationship to feng shui and because I'm a Buddhist practitioner, I also really connected to my Buddhist practice. So, so. Especially like my book, [00:26:00] Mindful Homes is really inspired by, um, the longing to express the practice of feng shui through a Buddhist lens, because I have another book that I wrote a decade before, Holistic Spaces, and that came from more of a place, uh, like I wanted to set myself up as an expert.
I wanted to give tips. Um, and it's a good book, but really the second book, Mindful Homes is really Thank you. My own, um, exploration into how I see Feng Shui as a spiritual practice and I think also when you start to really resonate with something and the universe tells you that it's the right thing for you and a lot of synchronicities happen.
So as I started to study Buddhism and Feng They were just, they walked together hand in hand. So, so I do see feng shui as a spiritual practice. And a lot of, um, there's a lot of [00:27:00] superficial, which again, isn't bad. It's just another way of looking at things. Like I look at a lot of things superficially that I don't know anything about, right?
Like sports, I'm not a sports person. I mean, I could understand, I could like think about, I could like investigate and be curious about it, but I don't really. Need to for my life point.
Kyley: Right. It's where yes.
Anjie: Yeah. Yeah. But, but so for feng shui, like I see it as a meditative practice and a mindfulness practice in beginning to see how we are interconnected and interdependent.
And that is actually one of the basic tenants of Buddhist practice, which is that we are not separate. We are interconnected and interdependent. And when you realize that, yeah. Um, you really start to develop compassion for yourself and other and, um, and so I guess that's my quick and quick long answer about Feng Shui being [00:28:00] a spiritual practice.
Okay. I
Eva: love this though. I love this. I mean, I think, yes. Okay. So what I want to, um, sort of pull out more is how does Feng Shui help you experience or understand the interconnected and interdependence of all things? I think that's like a really interesting concept. To me.
Anjie: Mm hmm. Oh, and I realized I also just wanted to say something else a second ago.
Also, I think a lot of people think that Feng Shui is about, and this is because this is how it's like shown mark, like marketed, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I think most people like see magazines, right? Yeah. Oh,
Eva: yeah. Like, yeah. I see. Especially, yeah. Sorry. With my
Anjie: Asian I make more money? Yes. Yeah. Or love. How do I make more money?
I think usually it's like, I've seen the popular
Eva: ones. Yes. I've seen like in magazines where it's like right next to like how to please, yeah, 50 ways to please your boyfriend or whatever. It's also like, you know, 25 ways to punctuate your house or whatever. It's just like, so Yeah,
Anjie: [00:29:00] so there's definitely that aspect of like a lot of people say, Oh, I did this Feng Shui adjustment and I made 10, 000.
Right. Or, um, or I found my partner. And, and that's true. That can happen, but there's also much more to it. So, so there's that aspect of it, but then you look deeper. So it's not a magic pill, but so feng shui, how is feng shui a spiritual practice? How does feng shui teach you about your interconnected interconnectedness with your environment?
So I think the first aspect is, um, like a really simple way is to just realize like what. Things mean to you, like, for instance, what is your bedroom mean to you? So a lot of people, um, and it could be different for each person, but generally most people have a bedroom and they're the only one you're okay.
Eva: Can I pause you right there and just say, can we do a go around? Cause I, I'm actually really curious. What does, what does the bedroom mean for each of you? Yes. [00:30:00] Kylie, can you
Anjie: go first? So, so we could start by. Me asking both of you what the bedroom means to you. So, so Eva, what does your bedroom mean to
Eva: you?
Okay. The reason I like this question is because I've never thought about it ever. I'm like, this is already just a, Such an enlightening question. It sounds so simple. But anyway, but I do think that space is so important. So if I were to really think, I think my bedroom to me represents comfort, like what I the ideal situation is like comfort, safety, rest, maybe a little bit of like, um, like, I just want it to be what I think of my bedroom.
I think of being a little kid and just balled up in all my blankets and like really fluffy pillows. And so I a little bit of a Sanctuary and it, and comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort. That's all I can think about. Like, I never want to fucking, I don't like working in my bed or bedroom. I think that's something [00:31:00] that some people do when I get, but for some reason I'm like, no, no, no.
Work does not belong in the bed. Bed is for clay and rest. And that's it.
Anjie: Yeah. What about you, Kylie?
Kyley: Well, uh, I love your answer, Eva. And my own. The answer that's coming up is actually like my experience of my current bedroom, less and less like what it, what, maybe what I, what it would be in an ideal world.
Because I have two small kids, uh, you know, almost five year old and a seven year old and, um, my husband mostly works from home out of our bedroom and like, and, and he also, we have a Peloton that I've used like twice, but he uses, you know, most days. And that's also, we have thankfully like a very large bedroom, um, and, and I have a little desk in our bedroom.
That's mostly just for like me to play stuff. Um, and obviously we have our bed. And so our bedroom is like very multifunctional. Um, and even like last night, my daughter [00:32:00] had a nightmare, needed to come into the room. So she doesn't fit in our bed. I mean, she tries to, but then nobody sleeps well. So I have a little mattress that's tucked under our bed, pull out.
That's really great. Here's where you can sleep. And, um, and so our, our, like, I love what Eve is speaking to about like, Oasis and Sanctuary, but my, our bedroom is like, like this multi purpose family space. Really, right? That's about, one time I called it dad's rooms. He'll be there, he'll be like, spend some time there.
They were like, where's my room? They're like, oh yeah, I guess it's your room too. So anyway, this isn't, I guess what I'm reflecting on is, um, and I don't have like a bunch of negative associations with our bedroom, but it is, it, In this chapter in my life and in my current family's arrangement, like, it's not an oasis, it's, you know, it, it is a place for play and rest, but it's also A place for that, where [00:33:00] the whole family gets care and where my husband works and, um, and, and, and I'm, I recently got an office, like, rented an office away from the home, 10 minutes away.
It's where I am right now. And that feels like my Oasis. Like, I have a pink velvet couch that I got. I have little fairy lights and, um, anyway, so this is our, this is a rambling answer to your question, but, um, it's like my bedroom can't be an Oasis in the way that Eve was describing because my, that doesn't work for my, Current life and family needs.
But I do have this other space.
Anjie: Yeah, so this, this is a great illustration on, um, how feng shui is actually super bespoke to that. It depends on each person. I mean, there's general ways of looking at what a bedroom can represent, but it depends on each, each situation, but there are some commonalities, right?
Like it's where you sleep. So we could think about like, it's where we sleep. How many hours do we sleep? How many hours are we there in the bed? [00:34:00] Um, hopefully Kylie gets some sleep when she's in bed. Um, and, and sometimes, especially nowadays, people do have to have a multifunctional bedroom, not just if because you have a family, but because a lot of people Work from home.
A lot of people have small spaces. There's there's a lot of variation, but when the commonalities about the bedroom is one, like, and Kylie, you touched upon this is that it's kind of usually there's a bedroom for each person. Ideally, like, right. There's lots of different types of family situations, but generally it's like you and your partner.
That's your private space. And sometimes kids come in or maybe kids come in for a number of years, but ultimately it's one person space. It's a more private space. It's different than a kitchen. Right? It's different than the living room because it's your own space. So [00:35:00] there's that because there has, right?
So that's why you now don't have like that privacy that you need in some parts of your life. And then, and then just the fact that we spent, like, hopefully 8 hours lying in bed. And then what do we do when we're in bed? Both of you touched upon this. You rest. You rejuvenate. It can be cozy. Where do you go when you're sick?
Go to bed. Um, and then it, and then what are you doing when you're sleeping? You are unconscious. You're not, you're unconscious. You're totally receptive. You're totally, if someone came and attacked you, you would have to wake up and deal with it. Right? So it's a place where you're vulnerable. It's a place that you, um, your body functions in a different way to rejuvenate.
So all of these things, like we start to like, what, like what, what, what does, what do different areas of our home represent? And then how do they impact us? So then another room. So I like to say the bedroom represents [00:36:00] you. And your heart is your
Kyley: office. I am, uh, noticing and a little uncomfortable with that.
My answer was like, well, there's no room for me in it.
Anjie: Well, well, because it's no, but it's true because you're a mother and you have your mothers have most mothers sleep. Okay. So I know for From all the mothers I talked to, most mothers sleep on the side of the bed closest to the door because they have to jump up and go deal with the kids all the time.
The husband never sleeps closest to the door, so it's the mom. And, um, and so it tells you about the dynamic. And so it plays out in your home, but like the kitchen represents it's where you cook. It's where you nourish yourself. You create alchemy in the kitchen. You, you create food to nourish yourself in the office or at your desk.
That's where you do your work. Generally, the dining table is where you gather. So all these areas represent more [00:37:00] than just a table, more than just a bed. It represents much more. And so you start to see, Oh, There's a little bit of a meaning there, and then you start to, and then, and then like something that, um, I think is a really, um.
Interesting aspect of function that not a lot of people think about. It's like, for instance, the doors represent the mouth. And if you look at our, like, our, the way that, um, our language, like, we say, oh, I'm opening doors to new opportunities or I'm crossing a threshold. Or if you look at different cultures, like doors are portals, doors are transition points.
Like, in the Jewish tradition, you have a mezuzah on the door. It's a very important space. It also separates one space from another space. It's the only way to, you don't crawl through a window. To get into your house, you go through the door. So it's where people [00:38:00] come in and out. It's also where the energy comes in and out.
It also represents how you communicate your voice to the world. And, um, so, so there's a lot of things and then you start looking at, oh, what's the quality of my door, what's happening around my door. And you start to have, you investigate it and you see, oh, how does that reflect? On my life, my opportunities, how I treat, how I'm greeted when I come literally, like, how am I greeted when I come home?
And what is the last thing I see when I leave my home before going out into the world? So, so it gives you all these opportunities to look at, like, how we're connected to our personal space. And then you start to see that, You start to understand that. Oh, if I, if my space affects me and I can affect my space, what about my neighbors?
And then there's always, there's always like 10 people that say, I hate my neighbors. And then they start going into that thing. Right? And then, um, and so most of the function adjustments actually for [00:39:00] difficult neighbors really look at. Anything that you, any kind of anger you want to put towards your neighbor is really needs is really a reflection of yourself.
Like, so it's, there's always a, there's always an invitation to look at how does this, how does this affect you and how your inner world, like, your and just basically your quality of sleep has everything to do with your environment. What you sleep over has everything to do with your environment. Like if you like, so for like, some naysayers, I say, okay, like, maybe you have, like, maybe you have like a, um, box of.
Letters from an ex that you like keep under your bed. So you obviously agree that this box of letters is very meaningful, right? Cause you're keeping it this or these photographs are very meaningful. [00:40:00] So you're already acknowledging that a physical object has a lot of power or a lot of emotional content or a lot of energy because you will not, you're not going to dispose of it.
Because it's very meaningful to you. So you're already acknowledging that it has chi, it has this meaning. And then if you put it like under your bed, then you're literally like sleeping over it and receiving and absorbing that energy in your most passive receptive state. So. So for instance, like we always say, like remove any kind of emotionally charged items from out from under your bed and you don't have to dispose of them.
Just put them somewhere else. Maybe you don't want to put your divorce papers under your bed or your, or your like, or weapons or, or anything. Like if you have trouble sleeping, maybe running shoes and your gym clothes are not the best thing to put under your bed. Or like, don't stare at your Peloton while you're in bed because you're like, Oh, I should be using that Kylie's like, you know, I just, I don't even see it [00:41:00] anymore.
It's just
Kyley: like,
Anjie: but you do. You don't see it. That's true. That's true. That's that's because you're actually Because when you say you don't see it, your, um, mind is doing work to intentionally ignore that several times a day. So you see how you, because you've become conditioned to not noticing it, but you have to intentionally not notice it.
Use energy, fritter away, fritter away energy, ignoring it, ignoring costs. A lot of it is very expensive to ignore things.
Kyley: So this brings me to a question that I have about feng shui. Um, One of the things that I have loved in watching my relationship to our home is basically, like the stubborn places where it's very clear that energy wants to collect and that some part of me knows like this is, this is a reflection of some [00:42:00] energetic thing in me, because that's how I see the world that, um, that the persistence of like this pocket is like a quote unquote problem area in my home.
So, for example, When you first walk into our house, our house is from the, like, 1840s, and we have no closets on the first floor, which we thought was a good idea when we didn't have kids, and had never lived outside of a 500 square foot apartment, you know, but, uh, as adults, but, um, anyway, so we, when you first walk into our house, Um, I used to joke that the front of the front room in our house was like the shipping and receiving center, right?
It's gotten much better over the years, but it is stubbornly a place of like, you know, the boxes from Amazon, the clutter from walking in the door, you know, my kids, now they drop their backpacks and their coats, right? It's just
Eva: this place. It's like the shoes and the coats,
Kyley: right? Right. Exactly. But, but because we don't have like a mudroom, it's like actually been like, just, [00:43:00] it's just, it's just this.
space of, and, and, um, but, and what I think is interesting is how many times I will go in there and like, be like, this is it. I'm going to fix this problem area, right? I'll like buy a new piece of furniture or I'll do this. And It is very, the energy there is very stubbornly committed to like clutter and um, and I have also watched how like there'll be moments where I'll have my own personal energetic breakthrough that, and I, and I, because I think in part cause feng shui isn't a lens I have great access to yet, I'm still reading your book, um, is it's like, I don't see the connective tissue yet, but I will observe how like I'll have some big breakthrough.
And then all of a sudden that the, these problem areas, like one of them will suddenly be less of a problem. Right? It's like that room used to like make me miserable. Now it's like so much better. It feels like more like, well yeah, this is a house with small kids, right? Like, I would love it if it was better, but it no longer feels like it used to feel embarrassing to [00:44:00] me, right?
Um, and so anyways, I guess what I'm curious about is I've often thought about, learned about feng shui as a way to be like, okay, do X, Y, and Z and it will change your energy and it will change the energy of your home. But I often feel like I watched the opposite happen, where like, it doesn't matter how often I try to clean it or how many solutions I try to come up with, if I don't get my own energy.
It's in alignment that external just is committed to showing me the clutter or whatever the kind of what a problem was. Um, and I guess I don't I don't know exactly what my question is there other than to be like, toss this, this curious observation I have in your lap and see what
Anjie: wisdom you have. Yeah, well, I think most people can understand what you're talking about when you talk about there's areas of your home that may frustrate you that, um.
Maybe a lot of things accumulate and it feels like, [00:45:00] um, and for whatever reason, that particular area, he said, it inspired a lot of, um, emotions like embarrassment and, um, and it's also like, you know, I talked about the front door is like the first thing you see when you walk in. So to kind of walk into that, it's not as welcoming, right?
Because it stresses you out. And then, because there's, it's very busy or when you leave, um, it could. You know, there's different feelings that that can impart, or maybe suddenly you feel like, Oh, I need it. Oh, I forgot to take care of this and this and this and this and this and all this stuff is hanging out the front door.
And, um, and then function wise, people might say, like, you know, if you if it's so cluttered and accumulated, like, you can't open the door all the way. You're limiting the amount of opportunities that come to you. So, um, you know, the way that I. Work with feng shui is a very forgiving approach, um, which I think it's also, um, a departure from a lot of ways that people look at feng shui.
I don't look at it as like, this is [00:46:00] bad. And this is good. I actually, um, again, come from the Buddhist perspective that, um, sometimes bad news is good news. So sometimes we exacerbate things and create difficulties in our life because. It means that we are ready to now heal that part of our life. So I don't know exactly because there are ways to look at, like, what, um, what that the location in your home, because in respect to a mandala, the bagua mandala, I could look and see what that may reflect upon your life.
But I don't know without looking at your floor plan, but.
Kyley: It's, it's actually directly like, like, whatever that's that grid is, um, our front door, like, perfectly matches the, that grid.
Anjie: Yeah, but I don't know. It needs to be in. It's 1 in those 3 areas. I don't know what middle 1 is. Oh, okay. So, okay. So, then if so, so, for instance, if the front door is in the career [00:47:00] area, or it's called, I also call it the path and let your path in life for con, it could, um, con is the Chinese name.
It could represent that there's some challenges in terms of, like, it relates to your career. Then life, your connections, your wisdom and your ancestors. And so, um, and also there's also the layer of the door represents how energy comes to you based on your own, um, or based on how energy comes to you from your outside world.
It's like the face to the world. So that's where maybe the embarrassment or the shame comes in because when you don't want people to, you don't even let, maybe you don't even let people in very far into your home because you're embarrassed of it, but that can represent, maybe you don't let People come in deep into your heart or into your life or invite deeper friendships because they stay, they stay at the door.
They can't, there, there's some kind of shame or embarrassment there. Maybe, maybe not. It
Kyley: depends. Well, my body is having a very strong reaction to what [00:48:00] you're saying. So we may
Eva: have, we may have like ding, ding, ding landed on
Anjie: something. That's interesting. And then at the very, well,
Kyley: yeah, also just to just interject, like, this is also to me with, cause I want to keep hearing what you're saying, but I, I'm, I, I'm struck by how We are perpetually learning the same lessons over and over and over again, because I am actually like a, I am a very vulnerable, open hearted person.
Right. I like it. And, um, I think that's probably why Eva said that's
Eva: interesting. Yeah, because I feel like you don't strike me at all as someone who, you know, holds people at bay or you don't let people into your heart. That's, I would say the opposite of you. So then,
Anjie: yeah, so maybe that's a real contrast for you to actually feel embarrassed about the most public place of your home.
You're like completely embarrassed to not even let people in that far.
Kyley: Well, and I think what's, it's pointing to me, what I'm receiving in this moment is how much all of our like quote unquote lessons are [00:49:00] cyclical, right? And how there's always another opportunity and another layer of like, I do let people like deep into my heart and also there is a clearly based on the somatic response I'm having to what you're saying there's clearly like yet another, there's an invitation to the peel off yet another layer that feels like it's being reflected back to me.
Um, and so less of like, oh, this is, this is a persistent problem, which was the language I was using, but more like, where's. Where's the next layer that wants to come off? Mm-Hmm. . And where's the next layer that come off? But I interjected you because
Anjie: I Yeah, well that actually, that ties into what I was gonna say.
'cause like at the extreme level, I've even had someone ask me like, how do I stop the dust ? And um, and you're like, and but this, yeah, but this is stop fitting skin . Well, it's like, well, dust stops and the problems stop. And our, and our. Patterns stop when we die. [00:50:00] So, so it's actually a great gift that we have, um, does store areas of problems in our life because it means that we're alive and we have the, um, the great opportunity to, uh, work through them so that we incarnated so that we could, um, To, we could work through these, these life issues, not, um, we had the bravery to, uh, reincarnate so we can, um, look at the difficult parts because life is not easy.
And so, yes, dust accumulates, but like on a simple level dust or clutter or like a lot of like kids stuff accumulates at the door, uh, or different places in our home and and certain like, uh, layouts and certain design details can attract more. Right. And so, um, and so there's also a level of judgment that comes up that we like.
Feel really upset. And then we want, and again, we want think we try to [00:51:00] solidify things. We want to fix it once and to check it off the list. I want that too, but it doesn't life. Life is cyclical. Yeah. So we, we have to kind of, can we have equanimity with that? Can we feel okay with those balances and how well we can handle the ebb and flow of the it.
Your entry becoming, um, cluttered and then cleaning and cluttered and cleaning can teach us something about, um, understanding like when are like anger ebbs and flows or our disappointment ebbs and flows. Like it just gives us many ways of teaching. If we can work with that anger that or the difficulty or the shame that arises with our entry, we could start to see how we can work with it.
With equanimity with those emotions that arise in other areas of our life. And so, um, so it is a gentler way to look at like, Oh, I, I, maybe if I asked for help, I could clean my entry and they can be clean for one day and then be [00:52:00] okay with got to clean it again. Like, just like the dishes, we have to do it again.
But, um, but It can't, it's not going to stop. The dishes won't stop. The clutter won't stop. Um, your neighbor is still going to be annoying. Um, they're just in, but it just, it's, um, it's something that is part of our life and we can, we could honor it and be grateful for it. Cause otherwise we would be like, we don't want to be living in a.
Sterile box without any interaction with people. So I think that, um, so there's that one aspect of it. And there's also like, you know, when you start to unpack, like, you know, is there a connection to like, is there some kind of, um, stop? Like is there so much clutter accumulating at the front door that you can't even open the door all the way?
Kyley: Not that much. No, it's okay. All right. It's like normal life. Kid. Yeah. It's mud rooms. It's just,
Eva: yes, I've been to Kylie's place and she always talks about it as if it's like, like a war zone and I [00:53:00] go and I'm like, it's, this is a normal
Anjie: house.
You don't know how many people say, because there's so much shame connected to your home too. So there's so many people that say, Oh my God, I'm totally embarrassed. And I'm like, this is, this is totally fine. Like, I mean, it's one thing if you're a hoarder and I don't work with hoarders, that's like a whole like psychological.
Disorder that I'm not, I'm not a organizer, right? That's a different discipline. But, um, but I think that a lot of, but I see that like a lot of people judgment with their homes, but, but I mean, maybe for you, Kylie, it's like, there's this, um, there it's important to acknowledge that there's something like, it's not, it's your most public part of your home and it's not how you want to show up to people, especially if you are an open, warm person.
And so, so it's, It's not it's doesn't fall in line with who you are. So, like, maybe you would be a little bit hesitant to [00:54:00] invite people over and entertain and have people come in, share your space and and and spend time with people because you're like, I have to clean the front, you know. I mean, that might not be you, but I'm just saying, like, that's another way that it expresses itself.
So it expresses itself in very, like, looks at, like, the practical, the very practical, but also the esoteric, like, or the meaningful aspects of it. So I say, often it connects heaven and earth. So you look at, like, what's really happening. Like, we're looking at your house. We're looking at your floor plan.
We're looking at it. What it, the physical structure, what's actually happening there, but also what does it mean to you? How does it rep, how is it connected to the bagua mandala? How is it connected to all these other meanings? How is it connected to your life and, and how you live there? So, and, and what's happening right now, because in 20 years, your kids aren't going to be there.
So things [00:55:00] change. So right now that's what's happening.
Kyley: Oh, this feels so fertile. I, I really appreciate. Um, I just really appreciate all these reflections because I can feel something like revealing itself to me. Um, and I was struck back in the earlier part of our conversation where you spoke about Feng Shui.
Ultimately, the spirituality of Feng Shui as ultimately landing in this place of compassion. I don't remember the exact words, but I remember that, that word standing out and it's interesting because I'm like, oh, I am firsthand experiencing exactly what you were describing because there, I can feel this compassion that's showing up that, um, I mean, it's interesting because To just keep using myself as an example, one of my mom, my mom friends and I, like our gift to each other is that we have playdates and I'm like, I'm not cleaning my house as long as you don't clean yours, right?
Like, come in, like, we are, we are committed to real friendship. [00:56:00] We both have kids. This shit includes like, You know, all the box and shoes on the floor. Um, but there's something, there's something coming in for me as we're having like real time having this conversation that, that, that I think there's a, I think maybe my front room is reflecting back to me that there's an opportunity.
Not to fix the clutter. Oh, I just almost started to cry. So, okay, apparently body is like ding, ding, ding, confirming. But, um, not to fix the clutter, but actually to sink into deeper compassion about this is the phase of your life and this is the home without closets and this is the mess of a, like, joyful, chaotic life.
As opposed to, how do I, how do I stop the dust? Um, That feels like a really beautiful shift. Uh, yeah, that's really cool. Wow. I
Anjie: love the little agreement to that. Like you don't clean, you don't [00:57:00] have to clean your home and I don't need to clean mine, which is exactly the same as like a friend. Right? It's like you don't have to, um, bake, uh, being happy or whatever for a real friend, right?
You air, I mean, I'm getting emotional too now, like, um, you want to have friends, your true friends are the ones that you don't have to edit for, so you don't have to clean up the entry for them, and so how, just even voicing that, like, see, see, you're even using the Feng Shui language already, that like, we're friends, so you don't have to clean up your house for me, and I don't have to clean up my house for you, it's not about appearances, it's about just being okay with accepting me for how I am.
Kyley: Well thank you all
Eva: for this very nice
Anjie: medicine. We're all crying and nodding. I know, we're all crying!
Eva: That was really beautiful. This is the kind of show we never know where we'll go
Kyley: and like, you know, everyone
Eva: ends up crying at the end. Yeah, that's, yeah, that tracks. Yep, yep. That is really beautiful though.
Kyley: So, okay, here's my next question [00:58:00] for you. Um, and in some ways, I think we maybe started to touch on this, but. What do you think are some of the main misconceptions that people have about feng shui, and if someone is listening to this and has never really engaged with it beyond kind of like the, you know, a meme online, um, where would you encourage people to start?
So yeah, two questions. What do you think are the misconceptions, most common misconceptions, and where would you encourage someone to start if they wanted to? Aside from buying your book, which is called Mindful Homes and is lovely, where would you encourage them to start? Thank you for
Eva: this question, Kylie, because I think that's the question I didn't know I had.
Anjie: So I think some misconceptions, well, okay. I just want to, um, temper the misconceptions with, um, you know, this is the way that I understand Feng Shui and the way that I teach it. Not to say that I've made it up, um, because it's not anything that anyone's made up. [00:59:00] So I think actually that's maybe a misconception too, because there's some people that say I've created my own Feng Shui.
And the way that I teach feng shui is that it's an ancient practice that I did not create. And, um, and we, I am connected to a lineage of teachings. And so it goes back to even the I Ching. And so, you know, there's, there's foundational texts that support the, the principles of feng shui. So, um, I think some.
Misconceptions from my point of view is that, um, people think that they're, that they would really like to go through like a checklist and, and that's okay. Like, I like, I would, I want like a checklist too for, I don't know, for. Making chocolate chip cookies or something. Right. Um, and, and like the idea of chocolate chip, a chocolate chip cookie recipe or a bread recipe, there's many different, uh, variations to feng shui.
So, so [01:00:00] a lot of people, um, that's a misconception to that. There's only like one type of feng shui and every, this is right. And this is wrong, but really there's foundational principles and there's dozens of schools of feng shui and they. Right. All may say different things that contradict each other, so a lot of times when people just go on and search something, they're going to get many different answers for the same question because it depends on, um, what school they're, they're teaching from or practicing and also the application of it.
That said, um, there are, they all, um, all speak to the same foundational principles. Ideally, so, um, so some misconceptions would be that, uh, it's only about moving furniture around. So, really, we look at how you can, um, explore the Chi, which is life force energy and how that [01:01:00] circulates around your home and the quality of the Chi in your home and you cultivate that.
And so furniture can be involved, but it doesn't need to. Another misconception is that you need a lot of money to improve your function way. And there's plenty of things that you can do that don't cost any money. Um, I think another misconception is that, uh, it. requires you to have Asian style furniture in your home.
No, it's just trust me. And that's not true as well. Feng Shui does not have a style, um, does not follow like contemporary or, or traditional styles. It's, um, it's about the energy. So, so there's many feng shui practitioners and consultants that. Have very bad taste. And, uh, it doesn't mean that they're, so that's a big misconception too, [01:02:00] that people think that interior design is the same as feng shui.
It's not, they're two different. And also they think that organizing is the same as feng shui. So I don't know any, I'm not an interior designer. I'm an architect, but I don't, if you want me to pick out a pink color, I'm not going to help you pick out a pink color. If you want me to help. If you pick out a window treatment, I'm not the one for you.
And there are people that are, uh, decorators and Um, practice feng shui, so then they, they could help you, but a feng shui practitioner may not know anything about helping you decorate your home. And um, and also a feng shui practitioner may not know anything about organizing your home. So people get those conflated a lot.
Um, they say like, Oh, what should I do with all the clutter? I'm like, Okay. I don't know. Get a, find a professional organizer. I mean, I, cause I could speak to clutter in the sense that like, oh, well, is it a, we [01:03:00] can look at where it's accumulating and see what that can mean from a feng shui perspective. We could, um, explore that from a feng shui perspective, but I'm not, I don't have techniques to, I don't know the techniques to help you organize your clutter.
Um, and I'm not going to go to the container store and help you buy boxes and things like that or, you know, or redo all your furniture. So those are that's a misconception as well. Um, and so, um, and I think also people will think that it's a magic pill that it's going that they can just, um. You know, flip a switch and everything will be perfect.
And we know life doesn't work that way. So, um, so we want to work with, um, work doing things in your practical life in tandem with your energetic adjustments to, to kind of work you towards like your aspiration and maybe learn, you learn more on the way. But it's, um, like some people say, Oh, I [01:04:00] have a leak.
What should I do? Get a plumber, get a good plumber. That's like the first thing, but some people don't think about that. They really don't think like, it's like, Oh, but I can't, I can't, Oh, I just get a plumber. Yeah. So where,
Eva: so where can people start
Anjie: then? So the way that people can start, well, I think actually, so this would tie into maybe Eva's situation is that you just moved, right?
Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, um, one place that you could start to start to explore Feng Shui, I think is just to even Like, so I'll have both of you do this, close your eyes and just imagine like you're on a magic red carpet and you're floating, you're flying somewhere and you're going to fly to like the place that feels the best to you and where do you, where are you flying to?
Eva: So, okay. So, um, I hope it's, I mean, I, I took the liberty of being very. Uh, what's the word?
Being, being very, like, [01:05:00] I can make this place up, right? Because we're talking about, like, this is my dream place. So my dream place is actually, like, here right now, where I just moved to in Brazil, because it is a dream. But, like, with the desert in my backyard, if that were possible, like, that to me is, it's the combination of the jungle, but somehow, like, just right across the hill, there's also a desert essence.
So I know it may be impossible, but that's where
Anjie: my mind went. Perfect. Okay. And Kylie?
Kyley: So, um, once again, I got emotional. So, who knew that I would be so, uh, I podcast.
Anjie: I'm like, yes, I got her to cry. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not like that
Kyley: hard, but like, this is, this is a pretty, this is a pretty good, a good count you're getting, you're racking up.
Um, I was on this red carpet and then I was just with my husband and my kids and, and the feeling that I had, oh, I want to cry. Oh, the overwhelming feeling that I had was. [01:06:00] Oh, I don't care where we go because we're just on an adventure. And so it was the carpet that was the, that was, oh, there was nowhere to go.
There was just being on a carpet with my husband and my kids. Oh, yeah, that's really sweet, Kylie. Yeah, part of my brain was like, we have a homework assignment. We're supposed to go
Eva: somewhere. And it's like, no, no, no, we're on the carpet. It's the carpet. It's the adventure. It's the husband and your kids.
Anjie: Yeah, well I think there, so, okay, so for Eva, like, so, okay, so the part of the exercise is to just notice the qualities that the environment that you are in and where you would go and that could speak a lot to what fe shui is, um, supportive for you. So for Eva, she went to, she was in the jungle, so that says a lot to the wood element, which is very green inver.
And then also desert and desert is actually a lot of fire element because it's very hot. And then, um, so maybe those are the two elements that support you. So you [01:07:00] could start to explore that. Like in my book, I have like different ways that those are expressed, but maybe like wood element being in, being around greenery, um, being around lush green.
Um, environments really heals you and also the desert, like so warmth and fire, but there's all, there's a lot of different aspects. There's color associations, there's shape associations, there's also meanings, there's also foods like, um, and just know, and types of people like, but, um, feeling heartfelt feeling inspired.
That's the fire element. And so there's already something for you to understand, like, Oh, this is what's really healing for me and how wonderful that you're kind of, or that you've, you've achieved that in your life. And then you'll start to see how that heals you. And then maybe it changes, right? And then for Kylie.
So one thing is, it tells me that you're probably also really content where you are because You're with your family and you didn't have [01:08:00] to go anywhere else, actually. Um, and then, but there's also a spacious quality, right? So, and maybe were you in the sky?
Kyley: Yeah, we were on a red carpet
Anjie: in the sky. Yeah.
Okay. So the sky is all it's expansive and blue, right? So that also speaks to the wood element. So maybe for you, what element is also very healing or was it more white feeling? It was,
Kyley: yeah, it was, it was. Yeah. I think it was felt a little more white
Anjie: than blue. Yeah. So maybe there's an aspect of what element that's supportive for you, but also white is metal elements are having more, um, more precision in your life, more, a little bit more organization, more clarity, more beauty, like, so you can look to the qualities of metal element to in your home or even wearing those colors to start to see how and explore how those.
Aspects of metal and wood can support you because there's some people that like, for me, I always want [01:09:00] to be by water. Like, if I want to go anywhere, I want to stay like, like, uh, I go to go to Maine in the summer and I stay on the water. My family lives in
Kyley: Maine. Oh, last week. Is there a place in Maine that you, that you love?
Anjie: Yeah, I go to, we go to Harpswell.
Kyley: Oh, okay. My family lives up,
Eva: uh, like, up by
Anjie: Belfast area. Okay, I don't know where that is, but it's by, but I'm by, I'm near, uh, Brunswick. It's near Brunswick. Okay, they're like two hours, they're like an hour and a half away. Okay. That's lovely. Sorry. But I love being by the water.
And I've always lived by the water. Like, I literally live on the East River in New York City. Like, out my window, I see the water. Um, so, water, and I, and I have almost zero interest in going to, like, I mean, I like the jungle, whatever, but I was like, not that exciting to me to go into the forest. Right. Or, or be, you know, I'd rather be like by water by the [01:10:00] ocean by a lake, any water.
So you can. So then I know that water is healing for me. And how do you bring that into your life? So that's a great place to start to really just notice which of the elements are what environments really heal you because there's a big difference between like, um, Like, visualize like, you're in New York City in a penthouse, it's all glass, you look down, there's millions of people, um, you hear sirens, like, that's a, that's a different environment than where Eve is right now, where she could be outside and we don't hear a thing, right?
But there might be a. A bug might come bite her. I don't know.
Eva: I've been many times in this podcast, just sitting through a conversation. Yeah.
Anjie: Yes. Right. And so there's, and the desert feels different as well. And there's, or like being in a very lush, like, Farmhouse in Tuscany with lots of like food in front of you, surrounded by your friends and family.
That's [01:11:00] so also actually Kylie being surrounded by your family. That's also earth element too. So being kind of surrounded and nurtured. So, um, so like Eva was like, didn't necessarily picture being with her. With her with other people, right? Can I share
Eva: actually? Oh, sorry. Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. Finish Kylie's piece
Anjie: and then I want to ask.
Oh, um, and just Kylie was surrounded by her loved ones. So that was part of her environment too, because it didn't matter the location as long as she was in this family environment. So that's also the qualities of earth being nurtured, nurturing. Feeling grounded and stable so forth.
Eva: Yeah. So what I'm getting from what you're saying is like, Oh, it's looking at the qualities of the quality and what it brings up for you.
Right. Because when I talk about the desert and the jungle, it's the, what, what gravitates me towards these places is like spaciousness to me. I'm like the, the, the pole or the, the like magic and beauty of these places, like the spacious feel it's almost like a feeling that I get. And so I [01:12:00] think that's, that's what I'm going for.
So, um, I would. I'm at, so I get what I'm here, what I think I hear you saying is like, look at the qualities of these places. And that'll tell me sort of like what it is that I need and love. Is that
Anjie: accurate? Yes. But not, but, and while you, what you said is true too, but also we can also be in our heads too much.
So it doesn't have to be like, I, this is like the qualities of this or spacious. It could be simply like, what are the colors like get to take it out of your head and label it with labeling it with emotions. You could just say. This is green. This is bright. This is, um, calming, or this is, uh, open. This is, um, flat.
Like, just start to look at it. Look at it like if, if you were an alien and you never saw this place before. So you wouldn't say I am in like Brazil. You're in Brazil. Wait, I forgot. Yeah. Instead of saying Brazil, I mean, we Brazil, but, um, you know, or [01:13:00] Maine, I mean, I guess those have specific kind of landscapes, but, but it doesn't have to necessarily be like, I feel spacious here, but it's, but this idea of like, um, like also, yeah, just like, what are the qualities?
Like, is there blue? Is there green? Is there white? Is there, is it flat? Is it structured? Is it glass? Is it busy? Is it. Okay. Um, even looking at the most basic descriptions of it, because like, again, like looking at the difference between like New York City versus like a cabin in the woods versus like the jungle versus flying on a, in, in space, or, you know, I was, I was for a second.
I was like, I wonder if Eva's going to say she. landed on Jupiter or something, right? And I'm like, how am I going to work with Jupiter? But, um, you know, like there's, there's just like different, there's so many like ways to investigate. So they're all correct, but also like, don't, don't forget to look at just even the basic aspects.
Like, like, is there a lot of fruit? Is there a lot of things to eat? Is it yellow? [01:14:00] You know, again, the qualities, the textures, the temperature.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Okay. You know, what's coming to my mind as, as you're saying this too, is my experience also, you use the word spacious and that felt very true and Eva used it.
But what I'm also thinking is you're talking about like the qualities, it feels a little bit like a different, a different spacious energy. Like my sense when Eva talks about the jungle and the, and the desert, is this like, I was like kind of spiritually activating expansiveness, which makes a lot of sense for this chapter in your life.
And the expansiveness that I felt was like. Like freedom and play and like, like the, right. That feeling of like, I packed my bag and we're going, like, I packed my, I packed my suitcase and we're on an adventure. Um, so like, so then I was bringing that back to the front, to the, to the front room and I was thinking, okay, we've dropped into compassion, bringing in these, this, this, um, sense of [01:15:00] like adventure and play, Oh, what I want is for that front room to feel.
Like, I'm just going to grab my bag and have an adventure, like, what I want, or I'm coming into my house and I'm dropping my bag and I'm having an adventure, but there was, there's something, um, that I'm receiving in all of this that's about, um, like basically like this longing for my home to reflect and capture more.
It's effortless and simple to just focus on the play here. Um, and that being a kind of spaciousness that I, I had, I hadn't articulated, I hadn't clicked all those pieces together, um, and like centering that instead of it being. The thing you get to at the end. Yeah. And
Anjie: sometimes it's not necessarily that your home will embody all the things that you want, just like your children or your partner and friends are not going to [01:16:00] hold into what you want them to be.
But what your home can do is offer you the gift of, um, teaching you something. So maybe the challenge there is that, like, that's teaching you to, to, that you aren't feeling that way in your life right now. And because, because I'm, I mean, I don't know if I'm picking up on this, right. But it seems like for me, it would be like, it just feels like.
There might be a level of guilt leaving or seeing that seeing the mess when you come home and seeing the mess when you leave.
Kyley: Well, yes, absolutely. There's guilt and frustration there. And I think what I'm what's actually clicking in is that I do have that right. One of the reasons why my my front room is cluttered is because.
I pick play over cleaning my house.
Anjie: Oh, but then that's okay,
Kyley: right? Like, so like yesterday, you know, my kids and I went off, we went off on an adventure. [01:17:00] And I didn't, you know, I didn't stay home and like do the dishes and tidy the house. I picked to go out with the kids for two hours and we had a blast.
And so actually I think what I'm receiving is that I do have those things, but that may, and maybe what my house is reflecting, so the compassion piece is, and what my house is reflecting back is like, You have the things that you want, but you're actually feeling guilty about them and maybe you could just let them be what they, that that's the spaciousness is like, it's already here.
There's no problem. You've got clutter. You've got little kids and you pick adventure and play over cleaning, which is exactly what I want to pick.
Eva: Yeah. There's a choice there. You know, like you're, you're not like a victim to the circumstance. Like this is, it's because you choose adventure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Wait. Okay. I have two other questions before we start to wind down that I feel like I have to get in about just with your, with your, with your Feng Shui expertise. Okay. Oh, actually, I think I'm really interested in this idea of the Chi, like the life force energy in, in a space, in [01:18:00] a house. That is very interesting to me because this is a nebulous thing where I'm like, yes, I totally think that that I, I, I, I believe that.
This energy in house is something that's very real and exists. And at the same time, I'm like, I have no idea exactly what it is, what it is. And I think, I don't know, I guess I'm just wondering if you could speak more about that. And also, I mean, we're, we're coming towards the end here. So this might be like, this might have to be like a part two thing some other time, but it's more of a question of like, how does one generate good chi and energy
Anjie: in the house?
Okay. So chi is life force energy. And for instance, um, one might describe it like, uh, When you die. Your body stays behind, right? Like your body, your fluids, everything, your bones stay, stay here. The only thing that leaves is your chi. So it's, it's [01:19:00] not so easy to like put your finger on, but it's the, it's a life force energy that flows through all things.
And so it's within you, like when you look at acupuncture or when you, when someone practices acupuncture, acupressure, um, working with, um, the chi flow in your body. And it's not, it doesn't correspond to the blood, right? It's their energy channels. And similarly, like with Qigong or uh, Tai Chi, uh, you're moving the qi and it's invisible.
But like, even if you put your hands together like this, you can feel that chi between your hands. Mm-Hmm. . So, um, so in feng shui, it's almost, it's, it's like you're looking at how the qi. Flows through your home. So generally the chi comes in from the outside world through the front door, the formal front door of the space.
And that's, it does also come in through the other doors and the windows as well, but mainly comes in through the, um, [01:20:00] it's directed through the front door. Cause we also, you know, walk in through the front door typically. And, and then it moves around and Construction or the design of the home modulates the qi.
Right? So it will, if you have a long hallway, the QI will go straight. Like for instance, if, if you, um, had a bow and arrow, the Q will go straight down that hall just like an arrow sh. Real fast and swift. And so, um, the idea is to have the chi kind of flow and flow smoothly in your home, just like you would in your body.
Now there's also chi in inanimate objects too, because in feng shui, the feng shui that I practice, we believe everything is alive. So like your bed that we talked about earlier, bed is also has alive and there's chi to that, or your desk or, um. Um, and then there's, there's different aspects of chi, like that would go into yin and yang, but we'll, that's a different conversation.
[01:21:00] Um, and so, so ideally, like there's, you want to have the chi cultivate in your home in a way that's supportive for you rather than, um, than aggressive. So it's not necessarily good. I try not to say good and bad a lot, but that's. Good quote unquote air quotes. Good. Um, because that's another thing. People always want to know what's bad function.
They always want to. It's like our human tendency. We also we want to know what's bad. We want to know what not to do. Right? What am I not supposed to do? Um, but, uh, I think that it's, it's So ideally, yeah, we want to see how the chi moves. So does that answer your question about the chi?
Eva: It does. But, and I'm wondering if you sense when you go into a space or I think that we all maybe can if we're looking for it, but I'm curious what your experience of like when you walk into a space, can you sense the chi just from, you know, being aware.
Anjie: Yeah, we all can. So like, um, if both of you and even the listeners think back to like the [01:22:00] first, when you were looking for a home. Or a place you just recently moved and you looked at a few different places. So some places you went in and you said, no way. Right.
Eva: Right. So, I mean, I think this is what people mean when they say this is the vibe or I just like the way that it felt.
Is that? Yes. Yes. It's just that there's
Anjie: an energy and a feel. Yeah, there's an intuitive connection, but you know, like some places like no way no and it has nothing to do with the location you just want, you're just like, nope.
Eva: Oh my god,
Kyley: we were talking about that just the other day, my husband, we bought our house seven and a half years ago.
And we, my husband and I were like, I remember one house that we looked at and like, and it just felt weird and creepy. I was like, what was going on in that second floor? And like, and he instantly knew the house that I was talking about. And like on paper, it was like a totally normal house that like checked a bunch of boxes.
And we both were just like. Yeah, that house had that felt sort of like fucked up vibes. I don't
Anjie: know what it was. Yes. Yeah. So, so we, yeah, so we can all pick up on that definitely. But I think, [01:23:00] uh, so there are, there is that extreme where like, I can walk into, you know, you walk into a place and you're like, this doesn't feel good.
And I do have colleagues that walk into a space and they like will throw up or something. I don't, I'm not like that. Um,
Kyley: but have they ever attuned such kind of sensitivity to the energy?
Anjie: Yeah, or they're more like I'm not, um, I don't work with entity extraction, but some of them, um, a lot of people I know, like they may, they feel the entity and then they throw up or they have a reflex, a physical reaction to an entity, which is another, you know, the different branch of entity extraction is not necessarily functional either, but there are a lot of people who do both.
Right.
Kyley: Oh my gosh, I do love that we are wrapping up and we're getting to like, this is
Anjie: like, like just great. We'll have a part two. We'll have a part two. Exactly.
Eva: We'll just tease everybody
Kyley: for like, you know, the hot gossip we drop at the end.
Anjie: Yeah. So, um, but, uh, but I think like, for me, I have to really put a cap on it.
So I don't [01:24:00] just like, uh, so I don't go, Unless it's like, totally blatantly obvious obvious, I don't go into the space and say, oh, this is really bad because I can't I just can't do that. So, well, not, I can't do that. I just I put a cap on it. So, I put a hat on it. And then if I'm asked to look at it, I do it.
And that's that's what I do regardless with and I recommend my students to regardless because you should always. Receive, um, a clear request and consent from the person's home or the person before you investigate them energetically, because I think it's invasive and you don't have permission. So I don't go there, but sometimes you can't help it just like, you know, like each of you can, and everyone can reflect upon going into a place and you're like.
Um, yeah, the vibes off, right? The vibe like, this doesn't feel good, this feels creepy, this doesn't feel right, or I feel very uncomfortable. So when it's, when [01:25:00] you can't help it, um, then I will do, do that. But, but usually I actually, um, go through a process where I look at someone's floor plan and I evaluate the floor plan, and I read, I actually read the floor plan.
So I take a lot from not, I don't take a lot. Up front from the, um, the vibration, I guess the vibes of it. I'd look more 1st towards the practical the floor plan and what the floor plans telling me because also sometimes it's hard for everyone to kind of separate. What is, um, my projection versus. Like what's going on with me right now versus what's happening, what that client needs.
And it can also change by the time I talk to them. So I always ask them, what do they want to work on? What do they need? Um, look at their floor plan, see what, what I actually see on paper that's happening. And then in combination, I do like some meditation. So then I'm no longer using my own chi and my own energy to review the space.
Then I can see what comes up because. [01:26:00] So as long as I, um, have a clear, uh, request and consent, and then I, I separate my own energy from the review of it, the exploration of it. And then I, I come from a clear space and then I can review. So I don't take from my own, my own, I don't read a. Space based on my own at the expense of my own energy, if that makes sense, because I'm very, so it's not Angie Cho reading or doing your consultation.
It's the universe or Buddha Chi or sunlight, or, you know, this Chi of the sun doing the universal Chi performing the consultation. I'm just like the channel for it because it would be a disservice to To for me, Angie Cho comes in and uses her energy to figure out this space. Yeah. So, so hopefully
Kyley: I love what you're describing there at the end.
That reminds me a lot of, um, one of the things that I always feel with my own, you know, sometimes I'll talk to clients and they're like, um, I [01:27:00] work with a lot of coaches and they will say, you know, well, what if I'm not enough, right? They have that common fear that we have about being enough. And one of the things that I always say, uh, you know, when we're, when we're, if you're a coach of any kind or a whole space for transformation, it's like your job is actually to show up and get the fuck out of the way, right?
Your job is to show up, but then get like. And so be fully present, but then also step out of the way enough that whatever needs to move through you will move through you. Um, and so I, I really love the I really love the
Anjie: reflection. Yeah. Because it just exhausts your own energy, your own chi. And it's also, it's a, it's a service to the, to your client.
Yeah. Um, because I am, I'm only one person. I don't have, I don't have a lot to tap into. And again, it's at my, and then it's very expensive to use your own energy to do that work.
Kyley: Yeah. Okay.
Eva: And. Sorry, one more, one more [01:28:00] question before we do our round of joy, because I said that I had to, and I
Kyley: knew there was one more.
I could feel it. I could feel
Eva: there was one more. This is a very selfish question. My question to you, Angie, is if you could help me, um, well, actually, let me give you some context, which is to say that my whole thing about feng shui is that I think sometimes there's a lot of, What I've read, and basically it is probably just pop, pop feng shui because it's not the feng shui that I feel like I hear you speaking to about right now very deeply.
But this idea of like, don't put this next to this because it's bad. There's so many rules. And a lot of it is focused on the negative, like you're saying. And if you do it this way, then your, your chi is going to leak or, or, you know, if you have a lot of clutter, that's like a common one. Yeah. If you have a lot of clutter, like that's bad chi and blah, blah, blah.
And. I would like to be free from the fear of, like, it needs to be done, like, these, this needs to be either done this way or it shouldn't be done this way, uh, for you to have good chi [01:29:00] in your environment. Do you know what I
Anjie: mean? Yeah. Well, it's not that simple because, because so when people say like, for instance, someone might say, I'm really paranoid about having, um, mirrors in my bedroom because I've heard.
It's really bad feng shui. So I say, well, and actually the feng shui practice, there's a lot of times that we actually prescribe, um, a mirror for the bedroom. And in fact, like recently I did a podcast with my mentor and she said that, um, our root teacher, he actually prescribed. For someone to put a mirror directly in front of them to look at when they wake, they wake up in the morning, which is so for everyone.
So everyone's always like, I thought that was bad. You know, you know, all the, all the trolls come out and they say, I thought
Eva: that was I think, I think what my issue is, is like with like with any practice. And Kylie and I talk about this a lot on the podcast. It's like with astrology, with tarot, with like any of these practices.
My problem is with when the practice. [01:30:00] Um, has rules that starts to dictate your own personal power because I, I like to believe that it's really we get to decide we choose, we feel into and if it feels good to me, I want to honor that truth. And then, you know, when some rule comes in and says like, oh, well, you shouldn't have a mirror in your bedroom or whatever, uh, that's where the conflict is.
That's the rub. Yeah. So I
Anjie: think something I think I would say, I understand what you're talking about. And that comes up a lot with not with a lot of. Thanks. And so I think like, if someone has the inclination, like, for instance, for you, you could test it out and then say, okay, I'm going to put a mirror and see what happens.
Because also feng shui that quote unquote bad feng shui. doesn't mean that it's going to affect you. Your chi could be strong enough that it doesn't affect you at all. Just like your astrology, like you could have something really difficult in your chart, but it doesn't mean that it's going to manifest.
Right. So, so you could, [01:31:00] so, um, I take the, again, the Buddhist approach. So I tell my students, these are guidelines. This is not a dogma. These are guidelines, but don't take my word for it. Test it, try it. And if it's useful, keep it. If it's not, Don't use it. So, so explore it and see like, okay, if this is something I'm really scared of, why am I scared of it?
And what I'll just try it for one night or, or on the other hand, sometimes when they're really scared about it, especially if I'm not working with them deeply, I'll just say then don't do it. Yeah, because if you're scared of it, then it's, it's obviously that it is bad feng shui because you already have so much fear around it.
Right? So I think that, um, so one way to work with that is to push. Push back and test it out and then you can come up with your own conclusions. You could say, Oh, it isn't [01:32:00] affecting me or it is affecting me. And then I would also investigate and talk to an expert and see, like, why is that? So I teach my students, not just this is considered challenging.
And I usually say challenging instead of bad. This is considered challenging because X, Y, Z, Mm hmm. But there are always exceptions. And then if you understand why, then you can modify that guideline. So I try to, so, so give yourself bumpers and then, and if it's worth it, then you might investigate it. So like with that mirror thing, like someone actually wrote us and told us that she had, she followed, she, she felt like she should do this adjustment where she put the mirror right in front of her when she wakes up.
And she said, In a month, she said something really amazing happened. I guess she had been in the closet for decades, and she came out to her family, and she attributes it to actually waking up every morning and looking at herself. Whereas, You know, [01:33:00] traditionally, a lot of traditional schools of feng shui would say, don't put a mirror across from you.
And there's reasons for that, but it doesn't, it's subject,
Eva: it's different for every person. I love that. Thank you. Exactly. So thank you for freeing me because I think that is, I wanted to hear it from the expert that like, yeah, I, we get to test it out and decide
Anjie: for ourselves. Yeah, because like, like spiky plants.
Yeah, I think that's true of all
Eva: spiritual
Anjie: practices. What's the spiky plants? Like people say, oh, you shouldn't have spiky plants. Well, what if you live like where there's only spiky plants? Or what if you love spiky plants? What if you love cacti?
Eva: Yeah.
Anjie: Right, but, but Maybe if you have like all your cacti in your love and relationship area, and you can't find a partner, it's like, maybe that's why, you know, maybe you're too spiky, you know, maybe you need to soften up a bit.
So yeah, so there's always exceptions. And sometimes it's helpful to have something made there's times in your life where you do need [01:34:00] to be fiercely spiky.
Kyley: Yeah, you know, what I'm getting from this is This invitation to let it be play, right? Rather than a prescriptive set of rules that I think the subtext that I'm hearing Eva is like, well, what if I get it wrong and I'm punished for it?
Right. And then there's like some secret costs. Cause I didn't read the guide books the right way. Right.
Eva: Exactly. It's a perfectionism, you know, like there's a right and a wrong. And
Anjie: I, yeah. And it's self fulfilling because if you truly believe that, then you do create that for yourself. So you do make it correct.
You fulfill, you fulfill that, um, fear based, um, way of thinking. And, and so these are saw, these are guidelines, not rules.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you so much. Before we shift to our round of joy, do you want to tell people where they can find you and, you know, how they can, you know, we, you know, where they can find you, how they can work with you about your book, anything about your book you want to mention?
Anjie: Yeah, sure. So, um, I'm, [01:35:00] uh, can be found through my feng shui school. I, I co founded a feng shui school called mindful design feng shui school. And we teach a feng shui certification program and occasionally like little courses here and there. And, um, We, you can also follow me on Instagram at Angie Cho and then I have a book, I have three, two books and one coming out soon.
So I have holistic spaces, mindful homes, and the book coming out in August is called mindful living. And that's written with co written with my business partner, but they're available wherever books are sold. So I would recommend mindful homes. The book that I was longing to write.
Eva: Oh, yeah. And just congratulations too on being able to write three books.
And I just know that you are, um, Yeah, I feel like when I looked up Feng Shui people, you were the person who just like kept coming up and I just, I just love, just congratulations on this journey that you're
Anjie: on. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. [01:36:00] I
Eva: want to just add
Kyley: listeners. If you look at the cover of Mindful Homes, it has these beautiful plants and this like cute outline of a couch and a lamp and then my kids put a t rex on the bottom of the front it's the same color as the plants and uh that just made me laugh and I so I left it there but it also feels now like extra fitting after our whole conversation it's like yeah of course my adventure home has T-Rex on the front.
like,
Eva: that's what I want. Yeah. And it look good. I have, and it looks adorable that way actually. It is very cute. Yeah.
Anjie: I think you're gonna, there's also a part in the book called Having an Unscheduled Day. I think you'd probably like that too.
Kyley: Mm, I will, I will, I'll, I'll skip ahead to that part. Um, okay.
What is something that's bringing you joy right
Anjie: now, Angie? Well, right now I'm really enjoying my tea ceremony classes and I'm going tomorrow. I go every Thursday and, uh, I really just love, uh, [01:37:00] Japanese tea ceremony. And I don't know what else to say about it, but it's like a nice little, um, Oasis in Manhattan and it's, it's a real, it's, they, they, um, imported a real tea house with tatami mats and everything from Japan.
And it's just one of my favorite places to go to just be very simple and just serve a cup of tea, the same simple. cup of matcha, whisk a cup of matcha, clean, we clean the floors together, we clean the tatami every morning and we make our matcha and we serve each other and it's just a really simple practice and so that's really bringing me joy.
Oh,
Eva: I'm getting joy from hearing about it because I personally just have a great appreciation for, yeah, that the simplicity, there's a vibe there that you're laying out for me, the simplicity, the, the, The tea. And also I love tatami mats. Like I just, uh, like I just want, I always just put my nose like right up into those, into [01:38:00] the, to the grass.
Cause it's all so good anyway. So. That sounds really lovely. Thank you. Kylie, do you want to share? You want, you want me to go first? Okay, great. Cause I, I have, I've got an exciting one lined up for me, which is that now that I'm in Brazil, I it's, it's been less than, it's been like, what, four days, five days.
I don't know, but I think I may finally be on my way to being a morning person. For anyone who knows me, that is like a journey because anyway, it's, it's yeah. I mean, I'm a a night owl, but I also. Love being able to start the day really early and then I just feel like I have all day and, and because of very just varying factors here, a lot of it is also this I'm staying in a room where they're the sunrise, like it just comes right up into my fucking window and it's just bright light and I naturally wake up I think with the sun and I'm like, I've been waking up like between six [01:39:00] and seven.
Maybe 730, which is unheard of for me. Like that's not how I do things. And so I'm like, but it's so nice, it's so nice to wake up early and it's been historically so hard for me. So I'm like, this might be the beginning of a new chapter in my life. And that would make me very happy.
Kyley: I love this. I love this.
Thank you. Um, as someone who also made the shift from, you know, never morning person to my kids. It wasn't the, wasn't the exquisite sun relaxingly beaming in. It
Eva: was my kids, you know, poking me at it for years
Kyley: and now it's baked in, but I'm excited for you. Um, And I'm excited for us to just hear, hear more about all of the Brazil, um, magic.
Uh, my joy is, um, this date that I do with my son once or twice a month, where, um, we, I, he, we go out, the two of us, and we pack our bag. And we bring [01:40:00] books, or like, little games, like, he, he, like me, is very competitive, and like, strategy games, he's seven, so he's like, just crossed the threshold of like, we can like, kind of be competitive with each other, and play these kind of problem solving games, and so, last night, we had one of these dates, and we went out, and we went to this, like, We go to this cute restaurant, it's after dinner, so it's like, we've already had dinner, but you go to this little restaurant, and he's like, can we get the good bread there, and they get fancy bread, and he gets the chocolate milk, and I get a beer, and we, like, played this dice game, and it was just so sweet and fun and funny, and on the drive there, he told me some, like, important things about how he's feeling about school, and so I got to, like, share some big emotions with him, and then we just had, like, just such a funny time, and Um, and I just, yeah, I, I, I've shared before on the show who I enjoy that I'm relishing this chapter of like.
[01:41:00] My kids being old enough for us to like kind of do activities together, you know, and like playing these games, but I also just like love some nights. We like I said, sometimes we bring our books and we just sit there together next to each other and read our books and, you know, the waitress is always like, you guys are so cute.
I just
Anjie: love that you
Eva: have these traditions with your kids, Kylie. I wish that's something that my. Parents, it would be more just, you know, like, I feel like that's the kind of stuff kids look back on and they're like, oh, yeah, this
Kyley: is, yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, there was, and I was sharing with Desi a tradition actually on the way last night.
We were talking about this. I live like 2 miles away from the original Dunkin Donuts, Angie. So there's like 17 of them that I can see. Um, and there was one that's since closed, but it was at the bottom of a, of our hill. And when he was a baby, we'd go there all the time and we would sit in the window and watch all these trucks and we would watch all the traffic go by.
And he was like, I don't know where he was like, I, I hate that that's a pizza place now. It should [01:42:00] be that Dunkin Donuts. Cause I love, he was like
Eva: two. I know. I was like, what is he like an old man? But he, like, remembered
Kyley: it. I was like, did you remember? He was like, yeah, and it was just so sweet and we were talking about how sweet, we got to remember, like, that date and how sweet that date was and that he remembered it and he was like, and he was like, and it's even more fun now because, like, now we can, like, name all the trucks, like, I know what a Subaru is.
Oh.
Eva: Anyways, there's a whole moment of,
Kyley: like, to your point, yeah, like, this is actually, like, a thing that I have had with my kids from the beginning without even really realizing that's what I was doing is building in these little rituals and these, like, mini adventures. And I'm really, really relishing this current ritual of adventure that I have with Desi and it's really fun.
Yay.
Eva: I love that, Kylie. Thank you.
Kyley: Thank you, Angie. This has been just so delightful and nourishing. And I am, I'm so grateful you came and were able to share some
Anjie: of your magic with us. Thank you so much for inviting [01:43:00] me. This was such a nice conversation.