One of our all-time favorite guests, Federico Petrelli, returns to the show to talk about Kundalini energy —namely how to understand and work with it. All three of us share our experiences with this powerful energy.
One of our all-time favorite guests, Federico Petrelli, returns to the show to talk about Kundalini energy —namely how to understand and work with it. All three of us share our experiences with this powerful energy.
http://www.federicopetrelli.com/ourbodies
https://www.hopefordystonia.com/
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Federico 2
Eva: [00:00:00] Hi. Hello Universe listeners. It's Eva here. Welcome back to another episode. Um, I'm so excited you guys are here because this week we are talking to two of my favorite people. We have Kylie, of course, forever bff, and we are rejoined by Federico Petre. Um, and a good friend of mine who I've had the opportunity to get to know through our two.
uh, meditation teachers training. So, uh, Federico is amazing. He was on the show last year. We had to come and ba have him back because. Blew us away. Um, to give you a inside look at his story, part of his story in any way. Um, he was diagnosed with dystonia, so it was an automatic auto autonomic nervous system disease where he was unable to walk, speak or chew, um, because of intense dys spasms.
And so he talks about this more in the first episode about how. blended a [00:01:00] lot of sort of his own work along with psilocybin, but a lot of like needing to figure it out himself and coming into trusting his body and reworking and rewiring his nervous system also through meditation. He talks a lot about that more in the his first episode.
So if you're interested in. You know, not even just about like chronic illness, but just about like the pos possibility of what's or the po what's possible. I think when we develop this skillfulness to retrain our nervous system, like it's pretty incredible. Um, so you can check that out for his first episode this week.
We talk a lot. It's, it's a lot of, we're diving even deeper into the body. Um, I actually had him come on here. I had some personal questions. I wanted to help, I wanted him to help me answer. And not surprisingly, once we got started, we just sort of like ended up having a beautiful heart opening, conscious, conscious, [00:02:00] expanding conversation.
So, um, I hope you all enjoy. Before we dig in, there are a couple things that Kylie and I want to share with you about what's going on in our. Um, so I wanna share with you flow right now. Um, doors are not yet open. I'm gathering people to join the wait list or the early bird list, and you can find that link, um, in the show notes.
But Flow is my sacred program about healing our relationship with productivity. , which is. , I think for many of us, a huge portal into spiritual liberation because I mean, when you think about it, so much of the backdrop of our life is based on like, what are we doing? We're constantly thinking about how am I using my time?
What do I need to get done? Am I being productive? Um, it's, it's just, it's actually all consuming. . I think [00:03:00] to be clear, not everyone struggles with this. I know personally some people who really don't have this problem, they're, they're very much in a flow, meaning they don't get their worth from how much they do.
They don't have a, a tense relationship with feeling like they need to get things done on their, on their to-do list. Like there's, they're truly chilling and they're at peace and there's, there's, they don't have this, um, What I call sort of like a hypervigilant about them, maybe because their trauma didn't ignite this within them
Uh, however, I don't think all of us are that lucky. Um, there are so many reasons why we have contentious relationships with doing and productivity and achievement. and for reasons that we don't always expect, right? I mean, the obvious one is that many of us have really big goals and we wanna get a lot of shit done.
And so there's a lot of pressure and intensity, [00:04:00] uh, to get to where we wanna be. And oftentimes though, that's driven by a lot of, um, Self-worth issues, uh, feeling insecure, needing to prove ourselves. And so we end up working in a very, uh, sort of self-conscious kind of way. Like we need to force rather than be in our power.
Um, but for me personally, there was also, I mean, there was that, but there was also chronic fatigue and chronic, um, physical issues. And sometimes there's also just like, what if we're experiencing trauma in our life or something really difficult? We are put up against this difficult position that I find so many people in that are like, Ah, I have this difficult thing going on in my life, or maybe I'm sick and I'm ill and I can't do all the things that I need to do, and I feel really bad about that.
And I'm like, totally overwhelmed. And then we do this really toxic song and dance of like, let me force myself to do something and then, and then I can't really do it. And then I feel really bad about myself. And there's judgment and criticism and self-hate. Um, I mean, anyone who's ever like, struggled.
Procrastination, pe you know, like maybe you have, [00:05:00] maybe you're in school and you're getting your master's degree or your PhD, and like all of this just seems overwhelming and then you end up procrastinating because you're overwhelmed. Um, and it just becomes sort of like this messy relationship that we have, uh, with time with ourselves and there's a lot of suffering there.
So if you can relate to any of this, if you're like for someone who's just. , I know that there's a better way, like you are ready to actually divest from capitalism because you know that this way of being isn't actually serving you and it isn't actually efficient either. I mean, I, I can get on my soapbox about that either, like noticing that these, these systems in which we are, this push pull isn't actually making us more productive and it isn't actually.
Helping us be like, I guess you could say in flow, we're actually wasting a lot of our precious resources, wasting our time and our energy and our emotional bandwidth. Um, [00:06:00] and if you are, like, you can kind of, the veil has been lifted a little bit and you're like, I understand that this isn't the way, but you're not exactly sure yet how to get out of it.
And you want the, the examples of, Okay, yeah, this is possible. Can I, can I actually. Live the way that I want to and trust myself, trust something bigger than myself and still have all of my needs met. Like that's really what it really comes down to. Like the reason we hustle so much or get into burnout mode is because we're desperate to get something.
We're trying to make ourselves feel safe and we're desperate to get our needs met. And the answer really is like, wait, what if I learned how to cultivate safety within me first ? What if I could do that? Then what could I do? Like imagine what kind of work and, and like how, like a space in which you could be living from, if actually that safety could come with from within and you knew how to cultivate that.
Then you could [00:07:00] just kind of like work as you'd like. And actually when you work as you, like, you, you become, More creative, more inspired, more productive, because productivity isn't a bad thing here, by the way. Just wanna say, I love being productive, but it's about our relationship to it. So if this is something that you're interested in, um, this is a topic that's very near and dear to my heart.
I am so excited to be able to share this program with all of you. Um, I don't know the release date yet, but get on that wait list. Anyone who's on the wait list, um, will be notified of early bird specials and bonuses and all the good stuff. So find that, um, in the link in the bio or just DME and we can have a chat.
All right. As for Kylie, I'm also super excited. We're both working on projects that we feel really excited about, and I am personally very invested in this project that Kylie is working on because I am like her ideal client, . Kylie is, uh, [00:08:00] working on a program called Sovereign. So it's a business program for people who like me, um, want to do business.
But have a really hard time getting stuck in all the quote unquote right ways to do things and all the, like the three step strategy of like, this is definitely gonna make you make this much money or bringing you this much success. And it actually starts to feel unaligned and maybe kind of gimmicky and inauthentic and gross or overwhelming.
Um, anyone who is a business owner, If chances are maybe you've signed up for some like very, um, masculine energy type program that was like, this is what you need to do and, and if you just follow these rules, like you'll totally be successful. And then you did the program and it totally didn't work and then you were like, Oh, well there must be something wrong with me.
right. Kylie here is, is here to help you with all of that because she [00:09:00] has so much business experience and sales experience that's very, um, that's rooted in I think, the business world and rooted in strategy. But then she's also gonna come in and help you. Uh, come into your own power and your own body and your own sovereignty, your own knowing, so that you can like, take the rules that everyone's like, this is how you do it.
And then, uh, break the rules so that you can do it in your own way. Right? So we kind of talked about Kylie and I behind the scenes. Like I was like, it would be really great if you could teach people how, what the rules of the game are, because I truly believe. You don't if like you have to learn the rules first so that you can be like, Oh, now I get it.
Now I get how this game is played and then let me go in and fuck shit up and do it my own way, , because I get it now, but I can also improve upon it. Or at least just individualize it so it makes sense to me. Right. Um. So that's what sovereign's all about. I think it's a much needed [00:10:00] program. It's a probably a really wonderful combination of people who are like, I want the practicality of business.
I wanna understand like what's why, what, what works in sales or what's effective in marketing. But I also don't wanna have it to be so prescriptive that I feel really limited and overwhelmed. And this is a program that I wish was around when I first started my business. So if you are. Looking for this kind of help.
Check out Sovereign DM, Kylie. Find her on the grams, send her an email, find her on her Facebook. All the ways. Um, so yeah, two very exciting programs. Y'all, for you. Um, if you're in a business owner, I suggest maybe you take both . Okay? So. I already introduced better Rico. Um, we're gonna talk a little bit about Kundalini energy.
Kind of, sort of, we talk about how nothing is real. Um, , it's, it's kind of hard to pinpoint what we really do talk about cuz it's more like, what, what do we not talk about?
I hope you guys really enjoy this conversation, and as [00:11:00] always, if you hear something that really resonates with you, tag Kylie and I. On the gram, take a screenshot. People have been telling us like they've been taking screenshots of like, what's resonating. And so we kind of know like what part's interesting or just join us in the conversation.
We love, love, love, love, love hearing from you. Um, and like subscribe all the things. I know people say that all the time, but that stuff is actually super helpful and leaving a review. All right, Thanks friends.
Hi Federico. Welcome back to Hell Universe
Federico: Hi Eva. Hi Kylie. It's so awesome to be back with you guys.
Eva: I am personally very, very
excited because I think these topics today will be near and dear to my heart. So, um, before we dive in,
what's life teaching you right now? Better Rico.
Federico: Hmm. Well, it's teaching me, uh, over and over
again I find, um, to trust and,
um, not to overthink and not to [00:12:00] get too attached to
outcomes. Um, and not to try too hard
to fix the things that.
I feel need to be fixed in me,
but just trust the process and allow wholeness to manifest.
Kyley: Cool. That's exactly the theme I've been sitting on all day
long, so great timing.
Eva: Uh, yeah, me too. I was gonna say like, this is a forever theme, this idea of trust and also Yep. I'm also in the same boat
of being like, I think basically anytime you are
struggling or maybe meeting some type of challenge or uplevel, uh, trust
needs to be an integral, integral component or else you can lose your mind.
Kyley: Yeah.
Federico: A hundred percent. You know I, I summarize it as
be curious, be kind, and trust.
Kyley: Hmm.
Federico: As long as you do those three things, things
happen. Um, and yeah, no need
to, to kind of grasp too [00:13:00] much at, at what we're looking for. I find.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: interesting cuz uh, the thing that jumped
out to, to me as it spoke to me personally today is, the
not needing to fix and not needing to fix yourself.
That's, that in particular feels like in this moment. Like,
what if there was no problem
to solve? Like what if all these broken things were in fact not a problem? and I hate that. And also I hear the wisdom
of it
Eva: Yep. Yeah.
Federico: A hundred percent.
Eva: Um, so better
go. I'm sure all of this will get, you know, interwoven at some point, but, Um, I particularly wanted to have you back on the show for selfish reasons because, uh, for context listeners,
um, if you don't already know, So, uh, Federico and I are in our two year meditation certification program together, and which is almost over, by the
way.
I can't believe you've been meeting for two years,
Federico: I know. I'm gonna be
so sad when it's over
Eva: just crazy. [00:14:00] Um, and I had this question to the group of like, sometimes I, I noticed that when I'm
meditating I will
like convulse or shake or sway and it's like, and sometimes it can get like, really
erratic and
I posed the question just being like, I didn't know what I was gonna get back.
And I was really,
um, like. I don't know if Enchanted, I think with like some of the possibilities of
what I was hearing was happening, that was shared by AMA our teacher, who I adore, and also by you this
idea of like, sometimes it's trauma being released in
your body. Some, sometimes it's this Kundalini energy, which like, I have no idea what
Kundalini is and I wanna talk about that.
And so I think I'm just trying to get us to a segue to
talk about all the stuff that I think Federico U know so well, which is the body and you know, energy bodies and and that kind of thing. Um, I don't know if there's a question in there.
Federico: I love, I love the.
Eva: [00:15:00] Okay, great. Yeah, I mean,
so
uh, where do you wanna start?
Federico: Well, um,
how about. I kind of, um, connect it perhaps to the previous episode for those who, uh, maybe haven't listened
to, um, the other episode in which, uh, um, I uh, was a guest.
Eva: Yeah, Which you totally should by the way,
everybody, cuz it's such a good, It's such a good one.
Federico: yeah, we
had such a good time and such a
good connection, the three of us, I think. Um, so yeah,
go, go listen to that Um, but in summary, I, um,
recovered, uh, to a remarkable degree from, uh, a neurological condition called dystonia. One of several problems, but basically my nervous system was massively disorganized.
I
couldn't speak for, um, you know,
uh, several years. It became
gradually Kind of, harder and harder, Um, , to speak, to walk to Chew, um, and what I had to do to recover. Reorganize [00:16:00] my nervous system and, uh, use neuroplasticity to make that
happen. And so one of the ways in which I was able to understand what was happening and um, redirect, um, and reorganize what was going
on in my body was by
energy. and so energy, you, know, is such
a, a a broad topic and we could go in a, in a million
directions, but when it comes to the body and when it
comes to healing, Um, I think it's really crucial to, um, to kind of be able to, to sense what
parts of us are more alive, what parts of us are less alive. Um, and when it comes to spiritual practice, I think that's, um, also really, really crucial because.
Several [00:17:00] spiritual traditions, um, tell us that a clean, clear flow of
energy is something that aids in
spiritual realization. Um, and um, you know, seeing things clearly. So the body is where, you know, the spiritual realization and, progress and So
on, all of it happens. Um, and so let me kind of stop here and kind of hear what you guys, uh, think about what I just said.
Eva: Um, my first thought is what you, what you left your last statement about how the bodies where spiritual, spiritual realization happens, I think is very, a very interesting one because I think. Yes. And you know, I'm, that's something that I'm still, that's still unfolding for me more and more because[00:18:00] yeah, I don't know, It's, it's almost hard to explain like sometimes an amazing aha moment that feels like it's happening in the brain, that feels spiritual.
Like you're like, Oh, I'm, this is such a profound realization, a moment of awareness that I'm happening. It feels not of the body for me, It can feel very intellectual, but I do think the transformation happens in, in the body. And I think this is an important point because I don't think I'm alone. Right? I, you know, if I were to take a guess in the fact that like a lot of us process information with our mind, with analyzation, with thought, and so I work with a lot of people who are like, who are so disconnected from their body that they don't know.
This, this idea is foreign to them. And I say, this is a constant unfolding for me because you, I continue to learn this deeper and deeper and deeper, and your body is just like an infinite well of experience.
Federico: Yeah. Uh, you know, it's really interesting what, what you um, said there [00:19:00] with, uh, the body and the mind. I think one thing that became really apparent to me as I recovered from dystonia and, uh, uh, learned to, you know, really tap into what was happening was that the things that we consider to be intellectual, um, or emotional, or psychological or what have you, they're actually very material.
They're very, um, physical and energetic. And, um, and so our emotions live in our nervous system. They live in our chakras. They live in, um, you know, our nerves and axons and dendrites and nerve endings, and, you know, every little bit of us carries, uh, the things that we consider to be abstract. Right. Um, And what I find over and over working with clients, whether it's clients who have dystonia or not, is that, um, [00:20:00] the body really carries the memory, um, of emotions and, um, past experiences and traumas and and so on.
And, um, and their thoughts and the lenses through which they view the world very much are mapped onto their body. Just to give you an example, um, you know, a woman who, um, had something called bleph or spasm, so a spasm in, um, in the eyelid. And, um, turns out that she had lost her mother and she hadn't allowed herself to cry, uh, over that loss.
And of course, this was one of many factors that played into it, but that's one thing. Or, um, again, with the theme of loss, um, Someone whose, um, heart shocker was really closed. Um, and, you know, the chest also physically was, was really tense and [00:21:00] tight. Um, again, because as a child they were told, uh, you know, you can't, you need to move on.
We as a family don't have the space to help you process, in this case the loss of, um, of your mom. Uh, we don't know how to do it, so just go back to school. Um, and so all of this, um, gets translated there. And as we grow spiritually and we include more and more of our experience and our, uh, you know, our pain, our suffering, and we meet it with compassion, we meet it in the body.
And if we don't meet it in the body, we're all up in our heads in our control tower thinking that we're, you know, Uh, controlling our, our experience with our left brain when, when in reality we're kind of, um, skirting. Yeah, exactly.
Eva: Mm.
Federico: So what happens for you guys when I,
Eva: Thoughts? Kylie, [00:22:00] You're unusually quiet.
Kyley: I'm just soaking all of this up, and I'm watching my own body. Um, I think the, the thing that I was pondering is this tension around, you know, you spoke to like the clear channel of energy in the body and, and, and I feel that very much as someone who for years would joke that I just wanted to be ahead in the jar.
Like my journey is very much about like coming home to my body and realizing it's the place from which I exist. Go figure , Um, and. And the like. I have like a physical sensation. I've spoken to it a number of times on the podcast, like of what kind of clarity and spaciousness and I think love feels like in my heart, in my body when I'm just kind of sitting in that energy.
And that's what I thought of as you were speaking of like a clear channel of energy. And one of the things that trips me up, [00:23:00] um, is wanting to fix when I'm not there
Eva: Mm. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
Kyley: wanting to make wrong when I, which of course paradoxically is like the very thing that makes it harder to be there. But, um, I was just kind of letting simmer this paradox around like, there's nothing to fix. And also there is, there is like a process we can go through that creates space and, um, I don't know, I don't have a question or a particularly profound observation other than just noting that.
um, that complexity because it's really familiar and comfortable territory for me to be in fix it mode.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Federico: Yeah. Um, actually it's quite profound. I find, uh, what, what you said there, um, and it's, you know, the question that I always had when I started meditating, it was, [00:24:00] you know, you're telling me to sit there and observe that everything's fine. Uh, and that I just need to accept what's there, um, and that there's nothing to fix and the moment is perfect and, and all of that.
And yet, if we all did that, um, nobody would be out there, you know, preparing the world, right. And, and fixing things. Um, and so the answer that I found when it comes to, you know, working on anything, whether it's ourselves or, or the world out there, is that there are two ways to, to approach the problem. One is, I'm trying to do something because I'm trying to get to enough, I'm trying to prove to myself that I'm enough, that I'm good enough.
So I'm acting from a place of shame, of deficiency of, you know, something's wrong with me.
Eva: Yeah.
Federico: Yeah. Versus this is who I am. I believe in this. I believe in creating this space within me. I believe in gifting myself, you know, the, [00:25:00] this work on my body and, um, in coming back to presence, out of a place of love and out of a place of alignment.
And then I don't see it as like fixing myself because I, you know, um, and that temptation is there for me all the time. But when I'm able to, to switch to that other, uh, modality, then I would do this, whatever work it is that I'm doing, whether, uh, knew. That, that I can get the result, or whether I knew that I couldn't get a result, right?
It's about the path. I believe in the path. It doesn't have anything to do with the, um, with the end result. And so I find that with energy, uh, to kind of loop back to, to that, um, I find that it's beautiful because sometimes really just happens on its own, this [00:26:00] kind of energetic awakening and it's just about kind of getting out of the way.
Um, and you know, Eva, you were mentioning Kundalini at some point, um, and so many people, um, Want to make a practice out of. And you know, there's Kundalini yoga, right? Uh, so kind of trying to get this, um, energy that is coiled at the base of the spine, um, to awaken and to travel up, um, the, the channels of the body and kind of help with the, with our, uh, spiritual awakening and our understanding of things. And, you know, I've worked with people who have tried to do that when they weren't ready, when, you know, those channels weren't completely clear, when there were blockages, when there were limiting beliefs, when there was trauma and it wasn't released. And it ended up greatly harming them in ways that Western medicine can't really comprehend or help with.[00:27:00]
Whereas, you know, for me, it. You know, a version of a Kundalini awakening. And, and I don't claim to, to have had, you know, the full thing. But, um, you know, a version of that did happen for me, and it happened when I was able to kind of clear my body, um, awaken some of the things that were dormant because of my, uh, disorder, because of the anatomical issues that, that I had that were, uh, kind of blocking things.
And so, um, some of that just, just sprung up on its own. And so I didn't have to to force it and it, it would've been, uh, deleterious if, if I had.
Eva: Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's take a, a step back because what I, so I wanna actually talk about Kini. Energy ex. I, I think you just explained it. Um, and I think I just kind of wanna maybe talk more about that too, for people who aren't familiar with what it is. But I will just say the only context that I have for [00:28:00] kini is Kini Yoga.
And I feel like I know a lot of people who like live and swear and die by it, and they're like, it's life changing. It's like the most amazing thing. And also I have no idea what it is. Um, so yeah. Can you just talk a little bit more about like, I, I mean you, I think you started, so like, to my understanding, you're saying it's like a, it's an energy in the body that spirals from the base of your spine upwards. And like, what it, what does that do? Like, is that what people are, when people are in yoga or practicing kini? Is that what they're working towards and why?
Federico: Yeah. So, um, first of all, I wanna preface what I'm going to say, um, by saying, This is my experience and my lens, um, on things. And that, you know, there are plenty of people who, um, are, you know, very well versed in all the different traditions and how, you know, different people throughout history have understood and uh, um, and, uh, practiced, uh, Kundalini, um, [00:29:00] and, and so on.
But, um, in my experience, Kundalini, um, is really this kind of vital force. Um, it's something akin to the, a vital force that stems from our clearest consciousness. People have described it as, um, you know, the evolutionary force of our consciousness. Uh, so something that helps us, uh, you know, you used the expression earlier level up. I think that's like really appropriate. Um, that that helps us, um, see things more clearly and um, and not be as stuck in this, um, gross realm.
Uh, so gross, not in the sense of, uh, disgusting, but in the sense of, uh, material, physical and, uh, and not subtle. So it helps us move towards, um, the more subtle, and, [00:30:00] you know, to me Kundalini is a subtle energy in that it feels like it's, um, subtle say than the electricity that travels through our nerves.
Um, and. Creates our muscle tone, for example, or that helps us, uh, with the physiological functions. This feels like something that is, um, you know, it may have manifestations that involve, you know, the electromagnetic field in the body, but it's something that is a different kind of energy altogether. And so, um, maybe it helps if I explain kind of what my experience has been, um, with, uh, with Kundalini.
And so, as a quick summary, the left side of my body was really, um, dead, for lack of a better word. It was, um, you know, It lacked muscle tone. It was really hard to use it. Whereas the right side [00:31:00] was, um, extremely hypertonic spasming all the time, carrying all the electricity, all the more gross energy, so to speak, that wasn't carried by, by the left.
Um, and this was in part because as a child I was, um, victim of some, um, negligent, uh, dental treatments that left me with an open bite on the left. And so my brain, my body just forgot, um, this left side because there was no contact there. I couldn't use it to chew and speak. And, and so the path of recovery was to begin to reawaken these nerves on the left, starting with the cranial nerves, which are, you know, the most fundamental part, um, of, um, um, or at least one of the most fundamental parts of our, uh, peripheral nervous system.
Um, they're really kind of the way our brain. Reads the world and finds its place, um, in the world and [00:32:00] regulates, you know, a number of fundamental functions there. But, so as I begin, began to awaken these cranial nerves on, on the left side, the right side could begin to calm down. And so the two sides of my body began to, to kind of even out.
And then as I sat and meditated, I would find exactly what, um, you describe, uh, Eva, that, you know, my body would just begin to, know, want to move and kind of have a life of its own right.
Eva: Yeah. He's swinging around for people who are listening. You could, Yeah, . I, it's like a, I almost feel like a tree, like a bush in the wind or something. Like I just like do a lot of this. Like it's, it's, or, or, but honestly, also there's sometimes just like actual vibrating or like as if I were on a massage chair or something and I'm like,
Federico: Exactly. And you know, for those of us who, who have, uh, any kinds of, um, nervous system [00:33:00] disorders, you might get, um, some sort of twitching and kind of involuntary movements. Like something, um, you know, like a, you know, almost looks like a, a, um, an electric shock.
Eva: Yes. Oh, sorry. Can I also interject another time that I've seen this, not just with myself, I've heard other people talk about this too, is like, before you go to bed, it's a time where there's like a, Have you ever heard of this Kylie? Like a leg jerk or like a almost, It's not the same thing as like, you think you're, you know, sometimes you have a dream where you think you're flying or you're, you're falling and then you're, you'll jerk.
It's that same motion, but it's different. It's more just like, it actually just feels like, yeah, I will just jerk a couple of times every time before I fall asleep.
Federico: Yeah. And, um, that, um, that happens a lot. It's, it's, it's very common. Um, and, you know, when it happens in, in this kind of spiritual context, um, I think it's, it's really often an, often a manifestation of, um, this kundalini energy that is trying to rise. Right? [00:34:00] And, you know, in my case it happened a few times, uh, during meditation and it happened a few times, um, when I was, um, on mushroom.
Which we talked about in, um, in the last episode. Um, and, and so what that would look like sometimes was that the parts of me that were dormant for, um, you know, years, they would just, you know, go to town and, um, have, you know, the time of their lives, um, just moving, shaking, twitching. And in particular, my tongue would, would be, uh, really active, especially the left side, that, that had been dormant for a while.
And every time that happened, I would find that in the moment and in the weeks [00:35:00] following that episode, some sort of spiritual development would, would take place. And you know, in the moment say, I would feel kind of more connected to, to oneness, um, or, you know, that that transcendent love was, was more accessible and there was a sense of, of wholeness.
And, you know, as you said, Kylie, that you know, I'm, everything's perfect in this moment, just the way it is. And the good, the bad, it all belongs. It's all beautiful. It's all, you know, the way it's supposed to be. Um, and just kind of no resistance. And, and then, you know, in the, in the weeks that followed that I would find. Kind of not wanting to fall into the old patterns, um, anymore and wanting to, to level up as you, as you say, Eva. Um, and it's kind of led to, [00:36:00] to a lot of the transformations that, that I've experienced, um, over the years, including, you know, a process that is still happening, um, of, of me kind of, uh, trusting my, my calling, which is to, to help perhaps others, um, you know, connect to, to this same oneness and connect to, um, to that same, uh, perfection of the present moment.
Eva: Mm. Yeah.
Kyley: I just keep being so quiet in this episode cuz I feel, uh, like I, I soon use this word swooping. Like I, your words are feeling like medicine and, um, and I, you know, in the way that, um, like there's the words and also the words are meaningless, right? I'm just feeling. Like, um, like this conversation feels like medicine in ways that I think I don't fully, um, I'm not, I don't think I need to understand.
[00:37:00] Um, and so, um, if anyone is listening, it's like, what is up with Kylie? Cuz she's not being super fucking loud.
Eva: characteristically, un or uncharacteristically quiet. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. Uh, that's what's happening. Um,
Eva: don't worry cause I have a million questions, so I can just like, I can , I can just take, take, do the ask question, asking for both the both of us. So I think my question then is like, so what is important about this for us to know?
And I will preface that by saying one thing that I am taking away, which I think you said you just briefly touched about on upon that I think is so important is that, um, maybe we don't need to do anything. Like you were saying this wasn't, this isn't, I I, what did you say earlier? You said something about it's more of a falling away, basically you cleared a path for then this to happen organically rather than, I think what I, I think might be a little bit more dangerous is being like, Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm attached to this.
I'm searching for this, I want to [00:38:00] experience this type of thing, and therefore you force it and then it becomes like you, maybe you're not ready for it. Or, you know, the ironies like the more we force something or the more attached to it we are like, the less it's likely to happen. So, you know, I don't really plan on going in and being like, Okay, I'm gonna go like search for my Kundalini energy or anything like that.
But I am curious like, From what you're saying, what is important for us to know?
Kyley: Can, Can I, Sorry, can I just poke at one thing that you just said, EPA before we turn over, which is that I think there is a middle ground around setting and tension. Right. Like if this conversation is like resonating with you or anything. Right. I think there is something really powerful out the idea of like, I am setting my intention to like, cultivate a relationship with the present moment, which is different than I'm gonna be fucking present right now.
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: both of which I engage with all the time. Right. But sometimes I think it can feel like our option is to like, kind of in this despair full way. Like [00:39:00] everything's meaningless, I don't care. Or clinging too tightly. But, um, but intention feels like it threads the eye of the, of the needle.
Eva: Yeah. I love that.
Federico: a hundred percent. I, I, I love it too. It's more kind of like opening the door to something rather than, you know, dragging it, um, through. So, um, A hundred percent. And, um, I will answer your question, Eva, in, uh, in just a second, but I want to add something important that, uh, that perhaps I didn't, um, clarify before that really the, the feeling of, um, this kundalini rising is kind of like a pumping action of energy that kind of pumps itself up from the base of the spine through the central, um, channels and, uh, you know, the, the, the channels on the sides, um, of the body towards the head.
And so there's this, this vitality that, that is able to reach, you know, the, [00:40:00] um, your, your intellect, your psyche and and so on. And so your body and your, um, you know, your, your intellect. Uh, every aspect of you, your, your spiritual, um, connection, they all get infused with, um, with this greater vitality and greater energy.
And I say this because, um, it's important in order to, to answer your, uh, beautiful question, which is, um, what do we do with this? Right? Um, and so one framework that, um, that I really like, um, is the, um, Ashtanga yoga, not necessarily the style of yoga, but the eight steps that are described in the Yoga Sutra of, uh, the sage pat potentially.
Uh, and two of those eight steps to spiritual realization have to do with clearing [00:41:00] path for, you know, this, this spiritual energy to, to travel, um, through the body and allow us to, um, To reach greater and greater levels of, of meditative, uh, absorption. And, and so there's the asana, you know, the yoga postures that, um, you know, are when practiced, you know, in, in a more traditional way.
They're really in the function of this spiritual pursuit, um, in, in the service of the spiritual pursuit. Um, and have a focus on allowing this, this energy to, to rise and fall and kind of clearing, um, those pathways and pr on ay yama. Um, the practice of, um, intentional and conscious breathing. Uh, too clear, um, those channels, those two steps are meant for, um, kind of, um, [00:42:00] this kind of energy to be able to, to rise.
Those are, as you say, not meant to be things that you do, um, you know, obsessively and, and, you know, forcing things and, and so on and so forth. And I would even say that, you know, um, not necessarily something that you have to do in order to pursue a spiritual life. Um, not at all. But if you are interested in, um, or rather if this is something that calls you, um, this idea of allowing the spiritual energy within you to, um, to manifest itself in the body, then, uh, those two practices, yoga, asana, and pranama are something that, you know, is actionable.
And when done gently can help clear the way. Um, for this kind of thing. There are other techniques, some of which I've, you know, developed, um, for, for myself to kind of, [00:43:00] uh, Map out the body and allow our conscious awareness to travel to parts of the nervous system that are cor, that are currently more dormant or maybe parts of us that were ashamed of.
Um, and a lot of this i, I share with clients and they're, you know, uh, playful little things like using vinegar, um, on the tongue, uh, which I learned from a great mentor of mine. Such a simple action. Um, but, um, it can help awaken our seventh cranial nerve that innovates our, uh, face and helps us with our facial expressions and so on.
And for a lot of us, you know, our faces are frozen, uh, for, for a million reasons. And just doing something, um, small and and playful like that, uh, can help bring that attention back and, and that aliveness back and, you know, many more of these little.
Eva: Yeah, I will say, so Federico led our, our group through a meditation that was like, it [00:44:00] just, it's just really, I'm really fa, I think I love the body, right? So I think this is why this conversation is so, I'm so passionate about this is because I'm like, I just, I love, I, it's some, it's like this whole thing that we don't understand that's also so like beautiful and I like to understand and so, so I was also really.
Um, enchanted by the experience that Federico took us through was like, he took us with this really short meditation, but it was so weird. It was like, but I loved it. It was like, notice the left side of your tongue. Notice the right side of your tongue notice, like, what do you, are you listening more from your right ear, your left ear?
And it was like, it was just like this short little practice where that got me so in tuned with things that I like would never pay attention to. And I was like, and I'm, you know, I've been meditating for quite some time and I've never done anything like it. And I was like, Whoa, this is like, it, it's cool.
It's like, whoa. Like another layer of aliveness that Yeah. Yeah. That, that you took us through. So anyway, and, and while I'm sure we'll talk [00:45:00] about that more, cause I know you're, you know, leading another meditation group soon, but gonna extrapolate some meaning from what you said earlier about like the yoga stuff, right?
Cause cause what I was asking was like, what's important about this? And what I'm hearing you say is like, um, How, how we move our bodies or if we, you know, engage in some intentional practices to move our bodies, that can be one of the portals to more spiritual connection or awakening. That's kind of what I'm hearing cuz it's like, well what's important about Kini?
It's like, it's more just that like, and I think I'm really interested in this for people who maybe have trauma or, you know, traditional therapy and medication maybe doesn't work for them. Right? Or as Kylie, we've talked about people who like don't feel safe in their bodies yet and so therefore they're not able to go in there.
Like this somatic type of modality I think is really important. Basically is just what I'm trying to say is like if you can't get [00:46:00] there through your mind or maybe you feel like you have stunted emotions, well maybe we can try the body.
Kyley: Hmm.
Federico: Yeah, and I find it. Yeah. Sorry.
Kyley: can I just pause, Jennifer? I really need a blanket. my house is very cold,
thank you. I actually think that, um, in addition to my husband kinda chill, I actually think I'm, my body is having a lot, I'm having a lot of physical responses in the middle of this conversation, and so I think one of them is that my body's like, No, but for real, can we have some blankets?
Eva: Yeah. That's so, that's really interesting though, too.
Kyley: So I suppose you can leave this in maybe Jennifer, edit out the long, uh, pause. I was getting the blankets, but, um,
Federico: well, you were saying if if we can't get to something, uh, through the mind, we can get to it, uh, perhaps through the body and Yes, a hundred percent. And, you know, um, there's this, uh, beautiful discipline, um, called somatic experiencing, um, with Peter [00:47:00] Levine that, um, you know, pioneered by him. Um, I find a lot of his work ends up, um, or, you know, some of the things, the phenomena that he describes in his work, um, manifest spontaneously with a lot of the people I work with, um, when they're able to release traumatic energy.
Um, and that to me feels like a different kind of energy though. It's, um, that one feels like more of the growth type. Electric type. And, and so to give an example, there's someone that I work with in person and so he had a couple of these episodes of, you know, the waking of the tiger, of that traumatic energy that releases and, you know, I have a punching ball and he just goes to town on the punching ball and screams and um, and sometimes he's not able to get up but just, you know, kicks and, you know, uh, just does whatever he [00:48:00] can.
Um, and yet afterwards in the sessions that come after, there's still the work of the chakras, right? And the, the hard chakra that is closed because of so much pain. And like, I don't want to make myself vulnerable and I have, I have to contract and, um, you know, the, the, the throat chakra that perhaps doesn't feel.
Safe. Um, you know, the person doesn't feel safe expressing emotions and, and so that's, you know, closed down and, and it gets mapped onto, you know, the issues that we all may have in, in our bodies in terms of our physiology and our nervous system and um, uh, our anatomy and so on. And, um, and so that works still needs to be done of, of allowing that other kind of more subtle kind of energy to, to travel through the chakras.
And so, you know, some of that, um, I help him manually. Um, you know, there are [00:49:00] certain things that I, that I feel and I can help. And, you know, we, we meditate together and we, um, use the feedback of my hands to kind of, um, help that more subtle energy move through. And, and sometimes there's, you know, an emotional kind of release, um, and you know, you can, you can find someone.
Is an energy practitioner that is attuned to these kinds of energies and they can help you, um, with that. Then, you know, when they're really good, they might even, you know, feel and see and hear the story, uh, behind what you went through, um, themselves. Um, and it's quite impressive when, when that happens.
Um, but, um, but yeah, all of this to, to say, um, that there are a million ways to, um, to process our emotions and, and our human experience, uh, through the body and, you know, disguise the limit.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Kyley: have a question for you. So, well, two things. So one, I just like [00:50:00] wanna kind of repeat back what I think I'm hearing, which is sort of differentiating between the kind of energy release that we might understand as, you know, trapped energy or looping energy or kind of some stuck emotion in the body, um, and that, that you're speaking to is, is perhaps different than this kini energy, which is more of like the cla, like a clarifying.
Like awake, spacious energy, right? One is like the making of space and then the other is what kind of flows into the space. Those almost how it's showing up. And I'm thinking about a couple, I think it was a couple, maybe it was like a month ago now, but I had this really moving experience of just like breaking down on my kitchen, crying about something.
It was like the, I was very aware that I was actually crying about something that was 37 years, you know, many, many, many years old. Um, and it was just, it was available to me then to feel it. And my [00:51:00] husband was great and just was like, Oh, hey, I don't really know what's happening, but, but hold my wife while she,
Eva: I mean, that's like the best thing,
Kyley: Yeah.
Yeah. He was like, so great. But, um, but that feel, it felt, it felt like a somatic release, right? Cuz it was like, it was like these big racking sos of like this, this thing that I'd been. Witnessing and circling for a long time, that was fine. And like, okay, we don't need to hold it anymore. Um, and that, that, that's a really beautiful and important thing.
And also what you're speaking to is that this, what I'm understanding is that this canele energy is, um, like almost comes in afterwards or perhaps maybe those people you should, I've heard many stories of people who kind of pursue kini as like an achievement to reach without the making of space, and that it can be really traumatic on like our physical or mental health because it's a fucking fire that's gonna burn through whatever's in the way.[00:52:00]
Uh, and there's like, you could take the gentle path or you could take the
Eva: Mm.
Federico: A hundred percent. And you know, I, I want to build on what you said because really kini in my experience, burns, it burns through the physical and the subtle body, right? So the, it's almost like the, the physical body has to be ready to carry it. Um, and the subtle body has to be sufficiently balanced and connected and so on, uh, in order not to, to block it.
Um, and, you know, there's, kundalini, there's, you know, what I perceive as say prana. Okay? So kind of a life force that is not the electricity necessarily, even though it might have electric kind of manifestations, but it is kind of a life force that, that travels through us, um, all the time normally.
And then there's, and you know, [00:53:00] this is very imprecise and very unorthodox, but just to kind of, um, make it. Uh, tangible, um, and, and simplify here. Uh, Kundalini to me feels like pronouns, steroids, right? And something that just burns through stuff, as you say. And if the physical body is not ready or is damaged.
Um, you know, I have a, um, a really interesting story of someone who, um, who had a, a certain disease that, um, that basically ate away at certain parts of, um, of his nervous system. And he had a kundalini awakening afterwards, and it bypassed all the parts of the nervous system that were damaged by, um, by this disease, leaving him, you know, very imbalanced in the body and [00:54:00] kind of unable to, um, To do certain basic things that have to do with using, um, those affected parts of the body because all that energy was so stuck and kind of burnt onto the parts of the nervous system that were available.
So there was something that was supposed to go elsewhere, couldn't go elsewhere, and there was this kind of imbalance that, um, that was left. And so it might be a specific part of the body, say, you know, my, my left hand or my, uh, right hand, or it might be something kind of even more subtle, like, you know, a part of my parasympathetic nervous system.
And so I have a hard time, um, you know, digesting things, uh, because that energy wasn't able to, to travel, um, in that way. And I'm stuck in, in this kind of sympathetic, um, fight or flight kind of [00:55:00] fiery, um, Kind of response all the time. And for some people, you know, that is a phase and then they're able to, to grow out of it.
And I believe that, you know, healing is, is always possible. But if the lens through which you came into the Kundalini practice was one of, you know, I'm trying to protect myself by being, you know, strong and engaging in that fight or flight energy all the time. And then, you know, that gets reinforced through an imbalanced kini awakening, then I need to be brave enough to say, you know what?
I need to dismantle the lenses through which I've been looking at the world so far, and begin to cultivate something else and begin to invite an energy desk, kind of feel very uncomfortable, right? Um, you know, an energy that is feminine, that is inclusive, that is, uh, compassionate, that is, [00:56:00] um, That doesn't need to control things.
And, and that can be very uncomfortable. Uh, I have this very specific example because it is someone that, um, I worked with that, that experienced this, so, yeah, healing is possible.
Kyley: I, I love what you're saying about this energy being, um, I Now the word to. Split it away. But, so I will share, I actually have this experience and I now know what I've been, what's been what, Like I can put words now to something that's been happening for, in little ways my whole life, but more notably for the past year, which is this, like, I'll just randomly have like, it's happening a lot while we're having this conversation.
Eva: wait. Are you saying that you have words to put to it? Be now because of this conversation.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: God. So cool,
Federico: I love it.
Kyley: very cool.
Eva: Oh my God. So it's like all coming to, I love this.
Federico: That's
Kyley: Oh, and now my cold body is getting hot. Okay. but I, What happens for me, Throughout my whole life, I would just have these like [00:57:00] moments where I would just like, like twitch and shiver, right? Just like randomly, like I'm, you know, just like a random moment.
But over the past year, right around the time, if listeners remember when I had my mushroom trip where I didn't actually take mushrooms, , um, I started having, it just started happening more pronounced and in, and I, and I stopped, um, like resistance faded. And so this feels vulnerable to share, but it is, it, it is less of, um, it's less of like a convulsion twitch and more of like a kind of like wave of, um, like ecstasy that roll through my body.
Um, and, uh, yeah, and it's, uh, I don't know. I haven't really asked. I, it's just been happening now for a year and sometimes it happens a lot and sometimes it does go like a couple month, like a month or so will go by. Um, And I knew it felt connected to like this [00:58:00] experience that I had really this time last year.
Um, but I didn't have the language of, I was like vaguely aware of Kini, but I didn't have the specific language. So this feels, um, like a very excellent gift of context. So thanks a bunch.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Federico: love it. That makes me so happy.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah,
Eva: Yeah. And that's partly why I wanted to have this conversation was to give people an understanding of like, maybe what's, what's happening? So like, like again, why I brought up like the twitching of the leg before you fall asleep, or in meditation. I think sometimes there's this idea that like, you're supposed to be stiff as a boy, or you're just to be like really stiff and like sit like a statue.
And like, and, and there was a time where I was actually being like, Oh, I'm swaying, like, and I would suppress or like make that try to go away. Cause I was like, Oh no, I'm not being still. And now it's understand, there's an understanding of like, no, like let, there's, you know, there's a balance of like letting your body also do its own thing.
Kyley: Yeah, for me, like the difference between literally like having this like random, like Twitch and [00:59:00] then when not trying to push it away, it's like, oh, actually this is just a wave of pleasure that's showing up. Like, like two drastically different experiences, same energy, but one comes with allowing. Um, but I think that's actually the question that I wanted to put your way is actually speaking to the way that this energy, that there's inherent discomfort, right?
Like that uh, joy or ecstasy or awakening or however you wanna speak to it, like, is not necessarily comfortable. It's, it's a thing that we are wanting and we can feel its absence and, um, And I, I, you started to speak to it, and I guess I don't have a real question, but I just wanna, I, I think that's a really important point in all of this is the way in which, you know, what we're calling coele energy is actually perhaps uncomfortable, or we're talking about a fire that will just like burn through whatever [01:00:00] the fuck's in the way.
Right? Um,
Eva: Like the paradox of the fact that it's uncom, it's pleasurable and uncomfortable. Is that what you mean?
Kyley: Well, I mean, then I could go through a whole thing about how I think pleasure ha is, is inherently uncomfortable and blah, blah, blah. But, but I think more like, I think that there's this idea that the energy of awakening is like peace and joy and love, and it's not, not those things, but it is, in my experience, a.
Peace that is uncomfortable and an ecstasy that is ha like is is also has, is has the paradox of pain all interwoven in it. Um, and I think, I think it's worth just acknowledging that because it can be really disconcerting when you're thinking that you're seeking something that's gonna feel like, you know, smooth jazz
Eva: And it turns out to be a little bit more punk rock.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Federico: So [01:01:00] I love that you brought that up. I have so much to say. I don't even know where to begin, but I'm
Kyley: If this feels like a topic, you a lot to say
Eva: Just like word vomit and we'll piece, We'll piece it all together.
Federico: yes. So, um, first of all, the pleasure piece. Yes. You know, there's the, the place where, um, Kundalini supposedly resides, um, is really, you know, in the area of the, uh, pelvic floor and, you know, the cervix for women, um, and, you know, between the per and the prostate for men.
Um, and you know that for, for both, um, That can be an area that, um, that physically is pleasurable, right? And, you know, to the men listening, if you haven't discovered your prostate, go and do that. Um,
Kyley: Important PSA is on Hello Universe.
Federico: yeah. Psa. Um, so next thing, um, the more spiritual thing here, um, is [01:02:00] that, um, yes, once you allow this energy to, um, awaken and to travel through you, it will inevit inevitably, uh, encounter roadblocks.
And those roadblocks are the ways in which you've forgotten your body, uh, you know, mortified your body, um, or, you know, not been in alignment and illness has kind of taken advantage of the fact that, um, that you weren't in alignment. Um, The the ways in which your, you know, your heart is closed, your, your, uh, ability to speak up is closed, or you're, um, not comfortable with your sexuality.
Um, all of these things will show up. And not unlike what happens during a mushroom trip trip, um, or other psychedelics, there is a process of shedding the layers of us that are [01:03:00] superficial. The walls that we have, um, built in order to protect ourselves that aren't really us, the masks and the personas that we've, uh, adopted and the, um, you know, all the ways in which we've, we've learned to function in the world that aren't really true to our soul.
And when this energy awakens, it burns through that. And so, If you resist, like in a mushroom trip, if you resist and you say, No, no, no, I don't want this. I wanna continue to be who I've always been. Um, I wanna continue to, you know, keep my fists clenched and to, um, fight everything that, you know, uh, gets, uh, gets in my way and I wanna, uh, grasp at a certain version of, of reality and so on.
You're gonna have a horrible time and with Kundalini you're going to, you know, imbalance things. Um, [01:04:00] and you know, when, when that energy finally rises, if that's your attitude, um, that's what leads to, I find, uh, a, a negative experience or contributes to, to a negative, um, kind of experience. And so a lot of people that have this idea of, you know, I have to force it to happen.
Are actually perhaps in a process of spiritual bypassing where they have this image of themselves of, you know, oh, I'm, I'm all, you know, candies and, and rainbows and, and,
Eva: I'm, I'm a, what is it? Light and light. Light energy or light something. Yeah. Mm.
Federico: no, so So
Eva: my God. Love it.
Federico: yeah, you have to include the, the stuff that, you know, your shadow side, and that's, and that's how you know, we actually, uh, awaken. And that's uncomfortable [01:05:00] because, you know, we've, we've adopted a certain persona for a reason. And, you know, even depending on, you know, the, the depth of that spiritual awakening, This identifying with this body and with this person that, you know, this, this thing we call eye understanding that that's not actually how at a higher energetic level, um, you know, how these things work. Um, that is, that can be quite disconcerting as well. But it is beautiful.
Eva: yeah. So I'm hearing you say, I mean, I don't know, does this like, is, does this, I don't, I know you didn't have a question kinda, I guess I'm curious if this resonates with you, but what I'm hearing you say is that like, yeah, it's the process of like, when this happens, I think what they, The advice always is you have to surrender.
You have to like let go. You have to like be able to courageously go with the flow of where it's taking you rather than trying to resist, which I don't know, to be honest, like face me the fuck out. Like I've always wondered [01:06:00] like if, you know, if one day I do like a I OCA retreat and people are always like, you're in iasa.
Like you have to let go and it, I'm like, that sounds really nice. Like I hope, I hope I plan to, I hope I can, but I have no idea what's gonna come up in that moment. That is, I think where the Warrior's journey is, is like, can you let go? Can you surrender to whatever is happening?
Kyley: I, I love that you're speaking to this because I think sometimes we make surrender or letting go. Or non-resistance, uh, sound like it's a thing you do once, Do you know
Eva: Yeah.
Federico: Yes,
Kyley: Right? And it's like, I feel like
Eva: Oh no. It's a continual moment by moment process.
Kyley: and, and so like, and, and also the idea of like, um, contraction and softening, contractions softening, right?
And so, you know, say, you know, one day when you do an iowaska trip, right? Like [01:07:00] you have the contraction, which then gives you an opportunity to soften
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: like, Oh no, I've met restriction, or, Oh no, I've met resistance. Like, well, yeah, of course you'll meet resistance because otherwise we wouldn't be in bodies, right?
Like, it's kind of part of the game that we're playing here. And also, um, I think it, for, for me, it's more of like, can I trust? To recognize when I'm resisting or contracting. And, and this is something I'd love to hear, this is one of my early questions I didn't speak to, but like, how can you recognize when you are resisting or contracting or clinging to that kind of old self version of yourself?
And then when you witness it, how do you let go?
Eva: Ooh, ooh. Can I jump in? Cause I have an an, I have, I have some thoughts and I'm sure Fed Rico you'll have much to add, but I, I mean, I don't know if you're gonna like this answer, but I honestly feel like my meditation practice has been like my, like. A training [01:08:00] ground for that. It's like you are literally going into the training ground of becoming aware of what resistance feels like in your body and, and your, the habits, patterns of your mind.
Like, like, or even, you know, it doesn't have to be this idea of like, uh, what a meditation practice looks like. It's like, I just mean like, if you are still with yourself and you come back into your body and you're present, you become acutely aware of what your internal experience is, and then you do that enough times over and over again. Like you really do develop, I think, a sense of self-awareness of like, Oh, I, I know what this is and I, and I have space to, to recognize it. And then, um, yeah. So I think that's partly for me, like where the recognition comes from. That, that the thing that's so beautiful to me about meditation is that you're doing it maybe in some. Like in a formal practice, but it's not about the meditation, it's about what happens after. And you bring that into your life and then that awareness is carried through to, you know, your days and your months and your years. [01:09:00] So yeah, I think I've just that, I mean, but, and at the same time, there's also an infinite amount of awareness that's possible, right?
So like, I'm sure there, there is more awareness that I can build, but, um, yeah, I think so much of meditation practice is about like . You know, I go to these possum retreats for 10 days and literally the whole time there's like this guy that's recording, that's going like notice, you know, he talks about how suffering is essentially any time we're resisting something or anytime we're attached to something.
So I'm sitting there for 11 hours a day noticing resistance and attachment in my body. And it's, it's trained me to like to see, okay, well what do I do when I'm noticing resistance and attachment? I literally just come back to my body. I just come back into the present moment. Res repeat. And I think that's where you've talked about Federico of like you're creating new neuro pathways.
It's like, or even muscle memory. I think it's like this sort of weird energetic muscle memory that you create in your body that's like, Okay, I don't, I don't do [01:10:00] anything actually. I just come back to now, which is, I guess I don't, do I just be,
Kyley: mm.
Eva: Yeah.
Federico: It's beautifully said. I, love it. Uh, it's, uh, it's beautifully said and I wanna build on it, um, by adding another layer, um, kind of in the body of, you know, if you want something very tangible and practical, even if you don't have dystonia, think about your muscle tone. What is your muscle tone? It's.
Engaged, Let's say a muscle is how contracted a muscle is. And so scan your body and see, you know, is my chest contracted and is the muscle tone really high? Like, you know, drawing me in, pulling my shoulders inwards. Um, does my, you know, pelvic area feel really [01:11:00] contracted? Does it feel more contracted on one side than on the other?
Um, these are cues that are, that are telling you something. And so, you know, am I contracting in my chest for a reason? Is it because I'm, I don't feel safe, I'm trying to protect myself from something. Um, and you know, if you are in tune or interested in, in kind of getting in touch with, with the more subtle energies you can, you can feel how certain.
Um, chakras, um, in, in the body, uh, feel. And so certain energetic centers in the body, um, do they feel well developed and, uh, you know, available. You know, when you think of your heart chakra, Oh yes, I can love easily. And, you know, those feelings travel through me, um, you know, um, with ease and I can connect with others with ease or am I driven by [01:12:00] fear and shame and, um, and so on.
And so, you know, that part of me doesn't feel, or, um, you know, we were talking about, uh, pleasure areas and sexuality, you know, for a lot of people, even people that are, that consider themselves to be very much in touch with their sexuality, they're actually acting out of a place of, um, shame and kind of.
Enacting certain trauma patterns through sexuality, Like, Oh yeah, I'm, I'm really in touch with your sexuality. No, actually, you're, you're trying to, to sha to, you know, you're getting high on, on that shame, right? And so that, that part of you energetically is, is not flowing, you're not engaging with your sexuality from a place of wholeness, right?
I can connect with, with my partner in a way that feels aligned and, um, and true to who [01:13:00] I am. Um, and, and that goes for, you know, for all, uh, for all the seven chapters. Yeah.
Eva: That's a really interesting topic. What I, what I wrote down, and this might have to be, I might have to say this for another day, but I wrote down like, you're with sex. You're getting high on that shame and you're calling it liberation
Federico: I love it.
Eva: Cuz I think that is a lot of like, It's a, it's a confused message.
I think this idea of like, anyway, this is a whole nother conversation, but this idea of like being liberated, which I am all about, you know, sexually can sometimes also get distorted and can get confusing as to like what's actually authentically you and what is you, I don't know, acting out something.
Does that make sense?
Kyley: also maybe all things contain all things,
Eva: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: right? Like maybe each moment, know. Um, if we like, you know, if we really holds paradox, sex for example, like is [01:14:00] so, is so culturally and individually laden with shame from our personal experiences, from our collective, from the things we've been told about ourselves that, um, I, I, I can't even really put this into words, but this is so.
I actually was like thinking about recently, like how everything already contains, its opposite, right? Everything already contains the thing that it is and the thing that it is not. And so like liberated sex always also contains shame and vice versa. Like
Eva: Hmm.
Kyley: they, because they're paradox. They're also, I Yeah. You, you're, No. You guys are nodding along.
Some people have lost me in the audience. Some people
Eva: No, I mean, I hear you and I feel like we've talked about this on the podcast before. Is that like, uh, and this idea of like, or I don't know if I'm, I'm gonna butcher this idea of like, or, uh, the other day ki [01:15:00] I don't know if this is the same thing, but Kylie, I was talking to you, I think, off the record, and I was like going through something really difficult and then when I checked in with my body, I was like, miserable.
And then when I checked in with my body, I was like, Wait, there's also joy here. . Like, it was just this, like, I think ev Yeah, like, what did you say? Everything contains all things ,
Federico: That everything contains, its, um, its opposites already. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's, you know, the beauty of, of the human experience and there's no judgment by the way, also, you know, in insects that helps us explore our traumas and, um, and our shame and, and all of that. Go for it. You know, it's not a matter of judgment.
It's, it's a matter of, okay, if we are seeking alignment and if we are seeking, you know, to, to kind of open up to truer and truer versions of, of who we are, then, you know, okay, let's come into contact with the. Trauma with the shame around sexuality and so on. And then let's ask the question what, what [01:16:00] feels in alignment?
Um, and what, what feels true to, you know, the most authentic version of me? And, you know, that process of finding that alignment in, in the body, in the different energy centers in your life, in different, um, aspects of what you do, um, you know, in the eight steps of, uh, of, uh, yoga in the eight fold path, um, you know, that alignment is, is what it's all about, right?
It's, um, the hard work of, of spirituality is translating that oneness, that beauty, that bliss of, of connection to, to what is into the body, into the, uh, lived experience, into our actions and, and so on. Um, and so, Again, um, not a matter of of good and bad. It, it is a matter [01:17:00] of, okay, is this, is this your path?
Eva: Yeah. have another psa. I guess. I don't know if this is psa, but something I wanna share about, I think. , um, just thoughts for how to get more in touch with the body. And I would love to also hear what you two have to share if there's anything else you wanna add. But I think I'm always, I'm always looking out for the person who's listening to the podcast and it's like, Okay, this sounds great, but like, how the fuck do I actually like get more in touch with my body?
Because that was me for so long and it just felt like this abstract, nebulous thing. And, um, I have found that, know, so you've, Vigo you've already talked about some things, right? Like the pro yama breathing and like, you know, the asanas, but Mm, I think oftentimes this process is, is one that's like kind of gentle and subtle and, you know, when I guide my clients through it, it's through meditation.
It's really just like the becoming aware of [01:18:00] the subtleties, right? And I think this, I wanna share this as both a. Like, hey, it gets to be gentle and it gets to be soft. But also as a, if you're, as a, as a warning, I suppose of like, if you're someone who, again, like how I was, who's used to things being like intense or like noticeable, then that, I guess I just feel like that might be, that's where the challenge is.
Like you're, okay, so for example, this, I'm kind of going adrift, but here, like I used to hate going to personal up to, uh, physical therapy, right? Because when you go to the physical therapy, they make you do these like small, little like incremental movements that feel like they're doing nothing. And I would get so impatient because I, I was used to doing like CrossFit and I was like, Oh, I need to like lift heavy things and like make sure that my muscles are like burning.
And so I was indoctrinated into this very western style of like, your body needs [01:19:00] to like, Go through intense, like I don't intensity essentially. And so I was like, if it's not intense and it's not doing shit, like that was really my mo And when I did yoga, I did Bikram yoga, like hot yoga, the most intense yoga.
And it was like, I love the intensity cuz I was like, I'm an intense person. And then you go to physical therapy and you're like, okay, you're just making me do this tiny stupid movement 20 times and it feels like it's doing nothing. But actually that is like the rehabilitation. So the point that I'm trying to make is, I think oftentimes this, this process of getting in touch with your body starts with those seemingly those things that are seemingly not doing anything.
And I think that's why we had to be patient and also it's a, a shift in like how we do things. Love to hear your thoughts because you both are nodding.
Federico: Kylie, I've spoken a lot, so I want to give you
Kyley: You are our guest. We,
Federico: Okay. All right.
Kyley: all the time,
Federico: yeah. Um, I, [01:20:00] I, I love the question. Um, and just the other day, you know, I had a, a new client, um, on the dystonia side of things. Um, you know, who, who has a pretty noticeable imbalance and she's used to, you know, really using one side of her body in everything she does.
And, you know, she swims, um, a lot and she swims mostly, you know, uh, using one side of her body. And we used some of these gentle techniques to, um, to use, you know, vibration and, uh, small things like this to kind of get those nerves on the other side to awaken. And the first thing she said is like, Oh, this is very subtle.
And, you know, she has a lot of trauma and a lot of, um, a lot of, um, things that she learned to deal with by. Being very type A about things by being very strong about, you know, what [01:21:00] she wants to accomplish. And, and so what I told her is, you're being called to, and this is something that I, that I say to a lot of people, you know, dystonia, no dystonia.
Um, you're being called to move from disciplining yourself into strength, to loving yourself into wholeness. And that is subtle. Loving yourself into wholeness is subtle and you know, it, it starts with that idea that, okay, we're not accomplishing anything right now. We're just being with what is, and just noticing more and more and just opening up the space and the love, the compassion is what, what helps it happen?
But, um, you know, some of these techniques is, um, are some of the things that we'll explore, um, in my upcoming, uh, retreat that I'll tell you guys about, um, later. Uh, but there are specific things that everybody can do to really [01:22:00] map out the body and gently come back in, uh, into contact, um, and awareness of the.
Kyley: I love what you're all saying and the, the thing that I will add is, um, uh, On brand for me, but this idea of not making my body wrong, like not making myself wrong. So I woke up the other morning like, cause I, I've been thinking about how our bodies are constantly giving us, giving me this feedback loop, right?
My, my body is constantly telling me like what it needs, how we feel, what emotions showing up, right? And, uh, my modes have, you know, for most of my life, been to ignore or make wrong, right? It's like I woke up the other morning, uh, my hip had been bothering me. I felt bloated and I had like this scratchy, like the beginnings of a sore throat.
And I instantly just felt fucking pissed at my body. Like, I just was like, What the hell, . And then I kind of started laughing to myself. I was like, I'm like some Victorian mother who wants her children to be seen and not heard. [01:23:00] Like my body's job is to tell me things and I'm asking it to basically never communicate and always be fine.
Um, and, you know, which is an incredible like, privilege. And that, you know, my, my body's. Like, you know, I haven't been forced out of that because my body has, you know, uh, I haven't had to deal with chronic illness, for example. Um, but um, it almost made me laugh. Like, I was like, what am I actually asking of this body of cor it's supposed to tell me things and how can I listen to what it feels like to feel tremendous love and ecstasy in my body if I'm also pissed at the existence of a sore throat?
And so, um, I think, you know, just like really, um, accepting that your body has wisdom and that it's, which is, you know, and that it's, uh, might be [01:24:00] worth listening to
Eva: I think that's like, so, Okay. Hi. I think you're bringing up like a really important point because I mean, we can go in a lot of directions with this, but. The being pissed at your body thing. I'm sure that's something that everyone can relate to. Basically, when you are faced with an inconvenience, essentially anytime you're inconvenience, like, and think about us, we are all inconvenience with our body because we are all immortal.
We all know that death is, you know, the cause of death is birth. And so like we're, we're meant to feel the, the lower back pain, the sciatica, pain, migraines, PMs, I mean, and this is like just if you're able bodied, even if you're able bodied, you've got a gazillion different things that you can like, complain about.
And then if you're not able bodied or you have some sort of chronic illness, which is also, you know, a huge group of people, like it brings up this anger because we're pissed that it's supposed, that, you know, it's supposed to be a different way. And I have that experience, you know, with my chronic boutique being so angry at my body [01:25:00] that I don't have the energy angry, that I can't do the things that I wanna do.
And I think so much of the practice is like actually a. This experience, I think, is here to teach us how to be kind to our bodies and to love our bodies. And I, uh, like to be, I think there's a humility there and I think that need this to be an ongoing process. And Fred, go. You're nodding your head. I'm, I'm curious if you have more, you wanna add.
Federico: Yeah, you know, on the website, uh, on fed petra.com, I have a, a quote that, uh, I took actually from our, uh, meditation teacher course that, um, goes something like I. You know, I, your, your illness, your chronic illness. Um, I am a messenger with good news. I am here to guide you back to the places within you where you can hold yourself with tenderness and compassion.
And, [01:26:00] you know, I'm paraphrasing, but kind of tapping into, um, your bodies innate, uh, ability to, to heal. Um, and you've been immune to my gentle nudges for too long, and I had to grab your attention. And so of the invitations in that quote is, I hope you'll judge progress, not by my eradication, but by the shift in the that produced me.
Eva: Mm.
Federico: Your progress, your healing is not so much that you get rid of your chronic fatigue or you get rid of your dystonia or you get rid of, you know, whatever it is. It's that you are a different person. It's that you've heard the nudges of the body and you've [01:27:00] begun to seek alignment. And so
Kyley: Hmm.
Federico: when you begin that process, which is a process of personal and spiritual growth, then even the chronic fatigue, even the dystonia, even the chronic illness, they are blessings and they are the beauty of of who you are.
And you know, they are the, the thing that made who you are possible. And I know that for me, if I hadn't had something so severe, I would've followed a path of autopilot that was set for me by honestly attempts to compensate for severe trauma from when I was a child, and just trying to prove to myself that, that I was enough and I would've been blind to, you know, to to the beauty that is the reality that we inhabit.
Um, and I would've missed out. And, and [01:28:00] so for me to be authentically me, I had to go through what I went through. Um, and, and I really see it. And so I completely agree and resonate with, with what you said, Eva.
Eva: I'm like getting so choked up. I thought that was like, so, so beautiful. I think I really resonate with this because, um, kind of like what I was saying is like the ch every single one of us, whether now or later we are gonna come up against our body, like, or, or, or as we age, it is literally the inevitable that our body is going to, um, I guess you could say break down.
Or whatever you, I don't know the language you'd wanna use. And I just think this is, so basically none of us are immune to this. This applies to every single person, whether you, you're lucky enough to be able bodied your entire life and then maybe you go out with a bang when you're like 90 or a hundred or [01:29:00] whatever, or, but I don't actually think that's realistic.
I think everybody knows what it's like to have something going on with their body and this, I just feel like the spiritual practice of it all is, um, you know, we can suffer through it or we can change this into an opportunity for love and
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: Yeah. And you know, I'm actually reminded of a conversation that we had with Liz Simpson, who was another good, We had another great body.
If you are liking this episode, you can choose to also go check out the Body episode with Liz Simpson, cuz she talks a lot about that too. You know, like our, um, chronic illnesses are often here. To, to teach us something really important. That's obvi. That's been my situation too. Like it's taught me how to slow down and divest from capitalism,
Kyley: Yeah. Fredo, I have a question for you. Cause you said something [01:30:00] super juicy in the beginning and then we skipped right over it, which is that you were speaking of your own experience with Kini, um, and you were saying how. You know, you don't ascribe to like, okay, there's a pinnacle place that I have arrived, but also that it has been something that's had a really transformational experience in your, um, I think experiences, a spiritual being.
And so I'm actually curious if you could just share what your experiences, perhaps, what feels new or different or richer, um, that you ascribe to Kini
Federico: Yeah. Um, thank you for asking the question. I, there's so much. You know, it is a component of, of several things that have been going on for me, um, for years. But I think [01:31:00] I'll share something that, you know, maybe half of the audience is gonna be like, Oh, okay, well, whatever. Um, and the other the other half is gonna be like, Oh, okay.
Interesting. Um, I like that. Um, but, so feel free to take it or leave it if you believe in intuition. Um, and if you believe in, you know, the fact that the energetic body lives on after death, um, then, or, you know, some of the sheets of, of our body, um, that are more subtle in nature, um, don't actually die with the material body.
Um, well, I had one Kundalini experience, uh, when I was meditating, when I was. You know, right after, um, a pretty intense session with, with a client, um, in person, and again, this client had [01:32:00] experienced, um, the loss of his mother. And after that, um, during that kini experience, really feeling this pumping action from the bottom of the spine to, um, the head, exactly, you know, what, um, mediums and, and so on mean when they say I raise my vibration.
And I, you know, I was in a different realm. Um, and it's something that I've experienced, you know, in, in different ways through meditation even. Physical components through mushrooms and so on. But, um, stepping into a, a deeper, um, energetic, uh, realm, uh, or higher, depending on your perspective. Um, and I could feel this person's mother, um, not so much talking to me because there weren't [01:33:00] words, but I could feel that she was saying it's not an accident that the two of you met.
And, you know, there's, there's healing in this for the person and there's growth in it for you. And so just this flood of love and trust and, you know, you're, you're a part, now I'm getting choke up. You're a part of, of something bigger. Um. And so just, just go with, with, um, with what your soul is, is calling you towards. and so this has been one of, of several really beautiful experiences and, you know, they're not all, um, this kind of, um, dramatic and, um, and vivid. Um, [01:34:00] but, but you know, I ascribe a lot of, of this process of growth that, that I've been going through in the last few years. And, and even, you know, what the, the decision to, um, to start the, uh, mindfulness Meditation Teacher certification course.
Um, it came after, you know, some of these experiences where, what it was like, you know, what you can level up here, um, and um, And so, yeah, I, I have several of, of these stories, but thank you for, for asking the question and you know, for anyone in the audience who would like, Eh, what, what is that? Just leave it
Kyley: They're probably not listening to this show, to be honest.
Eva: Yeah. PE people and on on this show who are here have heard all a lot, all the things,
Federico: Okay.
Kyley: Can I ask a follow up question? Um, I love, I just, I [01:35:00] love, love, love, love what you were saying. Um, and, um, I, I was thinking of my own session once with a client whose mother showed up real strong and I just sobbed the entire time. So, um, when that mom love shows up, it's this special , it's a special kind of intensity of like love and spirit and it feels really beautiful.
Um, um, uh, I think my question is, You know, I think it's not uncommon that we can have these mystical experiences if you're a speaker, right? Like the experience I just had both, it's like really one particular client session that was really beautiful, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, we keep talking about subtlety, right? So there's these moments where you have these like big, profound, like, holy shit, the world is not what I thought it was.
[01:36:00] You know, the veil drops, like, you know, something big happens and then we carry this sense we're different on the other side. And also it's not always apparent, you know, Um, I mean, full transparency. Sometimes I have this thought where I'm like, I actually just to pull, pull away from Eva's book, have I actually lost my mind and nothing has changed in the past three years, and I just am more delusional now.
Eva: Yeah. Better Rico in case. Yeah, people for listeners, if you don't know, my one thing is always like, Am I going crazy? Am I nuts?
Kyley: So I think my question and then something that's both subtle and profound will happen where like an old trigger shows up and it like doesn't, I don't even register it. Right. But I guess my question is if you could speak to that perhaps with your own, from your own lived experience. Like what, what space has shown up for you? [01:37:00] I mean, I think some ways my question is like, how do you know it worked? I think that might be the question, if I'm honest. I think the question, another question might be how do you know it worked? And also, which is a hilarious and silly question, but also like, what is the, what is the subtle incarnation of these profound experiences for you?
Federico: So just, uh, Yeah,
Eva: Oh. I just wanna, I wanna ask a clarifying question. So when you say, what would your question, How do you know it, it worked? How do you, or how do you know what worked?
Kyley: I, I mean, I'm kind of like joking, but I think it's the, like the,
Eva: that is like, I get it. Yeah.
Kyley: Like, how do you know like that the profound experience had a elastic impact, right? Wasn't just this like flash in the pan, you know, cool thing that happened and then now you're just back to normal, like regularly scheduled programming.
How do you know
Eva: Oh,
Kyley: it actually did create a shift for you?
Eva: I love this cause it sounds like an EVA question. Like like meaning, I'm like, I'm always like, this is what I'm always trying to figure out. Like was this like, I totally understand this question, so [01:38:00] I'm glad you're asking it.
Federico: A hundred percent. I, I love the question, and you know, it's, I think a lot of us who go through mystical experiences and and so on, ask ourselves that, um, like, what was that, first of all? And number two, okay, if I decide that I actually, and this is, you know, the answer to your question is if I, I really felt that that was a more profound understanding of reality than everyday consciousness.
So I was seeing things more clearly, and it was a profound knowing. I just know I'm not gonna find it in a book. I'm not gonna find it, you know, in somebody else's lecture. I just know, and there's no way around it. Okay? So if I go with it, if I trust that, You know? Yeah. There's like a [01:39:00] whole period of time in which you walk around li you know, the world, and you're like, wait, these people think that it's all real? Like these people think that it's, That stuff is stuff. Yeah.
Eva: Uh
Federico: They don't know. Oh, yeah.
Eva: Yep.
Federico: And , and you're like, Wait, you're only getting mad because you think that this is real. You're only getting mad because you think that this is solid. Right? And, and that, that you're here to kind of maximize your pleasure and that's your kind of purpose on earth. Or, or, or, or what have you.
Right. Um, and it's freaking confusing because, you know, sometimes, especially when you get to this stuff through psychedelics, you get to it pretty darn fast. And a lot of people, That contact me, not on the dystonia, uh, side of things, but on the psychedelic side of things, they've had experiences that are [01:40:00] really profound and they can't make sense of them, and they're incapable of functioning afterwards.
And the retreat where they were at, or like the dealer that gave them the acid or what have you, they didn't explain that stuff to them. And so they have to put the pieces back together. And so, um, for me that was really a, a process of, and it's honestly still ongoing is, is kind of as I was saying before, there's, there's that ultimate reality and there's this, you know, more mundane reality and kind of how do the two meet?
Um, and you know, to answer your question again, kind of I get proof more and more that you know that it worked, that you know that that deeper insight into reality is, True. Because when I help those two levels meet, good things happen. [01:41:00] And, and I'm able to, to grow and to level up and to, to, to attract the kind of people that, you know, that are on the same wavelength that, um, um, like you guys, um,
Kyley: you. I really love that answer.
Eva: I mean, I love the question and I love the answer because, um, I think, Okay, I, I think what we're speaking to is that, um, or I don't know, I guess when I was listening to you speak was also like, I'm always asking this question Kylie, like, you know that, or it's like, is this real? Are all my, is all my spiritual stuff that I believe in?
Is this actually real or am I literally delusional? And I guess it's kind of what we had. This conversation wasn't last week's episode anyway, This idea of like, well, maybe I just don't know, like maybe I don't have to [01:42:00] know what if I don't have to know May, maybe there's room for doubt and I can just make space for that.
But also, I think part of living in the in between, right? Cause like this is, like, this, I think is one of the quintessential questions in a spiritual path is like, how do I merge? Like this comes up a lot, I think in our podcast in different ways. Like, how do I merge these two, like, uh, seemingly paradoxical things.
And you know, the answer always is, it's the paradox. Or like, you know, I've talked about living in the in between. And I think part of living in the in between is also is, is that knowing of like, I just know, and also the asking, continuously asking the question . And you know, they're, it's like you were saying earlier, they're both, they're both together and the same and, and one in the same.
And they exist simultaneously. It's like, it's just the dance constantly. You ask the question and then, you know, you ask the question and then you know, or, or you remember and then you forget. You remember and you forget.
Kyley: Yeah, that's the thing I'm also thinking about is like [01:43:00] sometimes I'm the person in walking around being like, Haha, dummy, nothing is real. And then sometimes I am definitely the person who is like, everything is very real
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um, and like, we just like, we just, we are both, you know.
Eva: Yeah. But I think the spiritual trap is actually when we start judging ourselves for being the person who is attached to the real, because of course, we're attached to the real, we're humans. But that judgment that I give to myself of like, Oh, I should know better that this isn't real, or whatever is the very thing that keeps me stuck in the real, or that, like, I can't get out of it.
Kyley: Oh, and I lo Okay. Thank you. Because you're giving me a gift because we spoke at the beginning right? About how there's like, the judgment isn't helpful and the avoidance isn't helpful, but intention is helpful. So cuz one of the questions I was gonna post you guys, which I am also curious to hear, but I'm also answering my my own question before s.
It's like, what do you do [01:44:00] when you have these moments where you realize that you've like slipped into like everything is real. And by which, I mean in this case, cuz there's a, we can, we've talked, this is another topic we come back to a lot, but like when you're just clinging really tightly, when you're making something too real by clinging to it really tightly, and then you notice that you're doing that, how do you like unhook?
And what's coming back to me is if you can't judge it, if you ignore it, you'll keep clinging. But you can set an intention and then trust that the hour of your intention will carry you out and through to a new place.
Federico: I love that. That is such an amazing topic. And you know, we touched upon that, um, just a little. Last time I was on, um, I don't know if you guys remember, but I, I mentioned that I had this practice of imagining this, um, father from a movie that I really liked that was kind of like the perfect dad and the dad that, [01:45:00] you know, would've made my teenage years, uh, much easier that would've accepted me and, you know, loved me and, you know, uh, gay and everything.
Um, and I had this practice of imagining that, you know, this father was providing some of the messages that I didn't receive in childhood and kind of imagining what I would be like if I had received these, these messages and kind of, um, finding greater healing and wholeness through that by creating these new pathways, right?
Because for the brain, this is kind of the same, um, and very synchronistically. Um, Since we're talking about, you know, attracting, uh, stuff, um, not much after that, our mentor Eva, um, introduced me to something called the Idealized Parent Figure Protocol. Um, and now I'm devouring the book. Um, and [01:46:00] it's a whole technique that, you know, was originally something that was done in psychotherapy, uh, but something that can be done through meditation as well, that gives you the language to take that love, that transcendent, love that oneness, and translate it into something that your brain can do something with and really repair the attachment wounds of your inner child.
And so that has been, for me, such an amazing way of kind of bridging, uh, the two because the, the, you know, the, the ultimate reality of that, you know, oneness and that. Love, um, and this reality and, um, and yeah, it's, it's just, um, something really precious because the moment I step back into trauma, and there's still a lot that I'm [01:47:00] working through, I am clinging and I'm reacting and I'm, you know, I live in my brain stem and limbic system in, in the parts of me that are, that are not the most intentional, most evolved, um, parts of me.
Right. Um, and so trauma brings me back and this practice can, can kind of unhook me.
Eva: What did you say the name of the book is?
Federico: So the name of the book is called, and it's a really kind of academic book. Um, it's called Attachment Disturbances in Adults, Treatment for Comprehensive Repair. And the Author,
Eva: Your Alley. Not Up My Alley.
Federico: Yeah. It's a thick as, uh, Yeah, we curse
Kyley: can
Federico: a thick
Kyley: can swear.
Eva: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's, I was like, I was like, Oh, so I can't listen to it on Auto Audible. Okay. Probably not for me , but, But that's cool to know that that exists.
Federico: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
I really, I remember you speaking down on the podcast and I'm [01:48:00] last episode and I'm glad you brought that back because it meant something for me new, in a new way right now. So thank you for that. Um, and uh, and I think one of the things I really love about that is, you know, when we clinging, when we make too real, From a place of, you know, fear and, and, and concern and trauma, there is a real want there, right?
And again, with this kind of polarity thing where we either like clinging or re or we judged the clinging and like there's something real that we want there. And so I love what you're putting forward as a way of like uncovering what the hunger or want or need or un previously unmet need is, and finding a way to give it to yourself and to imagine yourself receiving it, um, so that you feel safe letting go rather than [01:49:00] just badgering yourself to let go.
Um, so thank you for giving me back a dose of my own medicine, just when I needed it.
Federico: Thank you so much. I'm, I'm feeling such connection with you guys. It's incredible. Um, it's, there's such a good flow of, of, of, you know, what, what we want, what we're after, what, what we see and perceive and, um, and so it's just a, a joy to, uh, to chat with you guys. And Yeah, you know, I think what you described there is the opposite of spiritual bypassing, right?
You're not just saying, Oh no, I should be, you know, up on that level and, you know, let me just dive into the quantum field, um, and, um, you know, uh, magnetize, um, abundance or, or what have you. Okay, totally fine. Go do that. Uh, but not at the expense of, um, of healing what needs to be healed. Otherwise, you know, it's not [01:50:00] gonna end well.
Um,
Kyley: Yeah. And it will, you know, Our rejected parts, in my opinion, our rejected parts. Just much like the, you know, the things packed into our body. Cuz maybe they're the same , like they, they don't, it doesn't go away, you know? And so it just gets, it just gets I, in my experience, louder until I turn towards it.
Federico: hundred percent.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Being with what is baby
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: There's always the medicine. It's like, damn it. But that's what it is. Um, I've taken notes on our own podcast, so that's a good sign.
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: lots of things written and highlighted.
Kyley: can you tell us about your retreat better? I mean, we're gonna do joy in a moment and all those things, but I am curious to hear more about this retreat that you mentioned earlier.
Federico: Yeah, thank you for asking. So, um, November 6th, um, we're gonna do a one day retreat, [01:51:00] um, called Reinhabiting Our Bodies. And, um, it's going to blend, you know, mindfulness and self-compassion with some of the techniques that I mentioned earlier to actually re inhabit the body, actually, you know, map the body through the tongue, for example, and, uh, you know, get to know your cranial nerves and, uh, You know, awaken what is called interception.
So the ability to feel the body from the inside and kind of seeing how that, um, manifests itself through, you know, different emotions and, um, and how to bring healing with self-compassion. And so there will be a lot of silence, but there will be these, um, these, um, few nuggets, let's say, um, that I think can be quite transformational.
Um, and it's all gonna be in a, you know, in a trauma informed, um, [01:52:00] container. So, you know, we're gonna talk a little bit about how to get back to the body without getting overwhelmed. Uh, Potentially, you know, if you're experiencing, um, trauma or flashbacks, even if it's not recent, you might get really worked up and, and you're really uncomfortable.
And so you know how to notice that and how to do this safely. But, you know, everybody talks about, you know, just listen to your body. In reality, most people are, you know, kind of listening to their mind and their ego and their, you know, their habits, energies. And this can be a step to, you know, towards actually listening to.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. I think if I can, I might act, I, I want, I would like to join cuz I think, um, just, yeah. Just because of that one meditation you did one time. It was like so unique that I'm like, I want more of this. So highly recommend people if you are interested.
Kyley: Is it in person? Is it remote? Where is it
Federico: online. Yeah, it's gonna be online. Um, so [01:53:00] everyone's welcome. Um, and it's gonna be on a Sunday. Um, so, you know, it should be, um, accessible to, to most and I would love to have you guys.
Eva: Yeah. Do you, is there a link that you can share with us for us to share
Kyley: in
Eva: with show notes?
Federico: Yeah. Um, it's going to be, um, federico petra.com um slash our bodies.
Eva: Okay,
Federico: And, um, just make sure to spell it right. I know I don't have the easiest name for English speakers, but it's, uh, f e d e, uh, and not f r e. Um, so f e D e R i C o and then
Eva: we're gonna, we're
Federico: L L I. Yep.
Eva: we'll leave a, we'll leave a link in the, in the show notes, folks, for anyone's interested.
Kyley: Yeah, that sounds amazing. I'm already mentally clearing my calendar and signing my childcare for that
Federico: I love it. Thank you.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eva: So is it time for joy?
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: All right. All right. Well then, [01:54:00] as our guest Federico, um, we are up. What is one thing that's bringing you joy right now in your life?
Federico: So I've been transitioning to a high raw vegan diet. Um, and that is, you know, talk about leveling up while it's knocking my socks off. Um, you know, It's bringing me joy. It's also bringing me a lot more kind of vivid emotions, um, which is, um, uh, which is fantastic, but it's also turbo charging my healing.
And, you know, were talking earlier about the fact that yeah, we all experience illness, but you know what, We also all deserve a chance to feel freaking good in our bodies and, and raw food is doing it for me. Um, and um, and so yeah, there's so much joy and gratitude to be able to connect to these, you know, high vibrational foods.
Kyley: Mm[01:55:00]
Eva: Ooh, that's just opening a can of worms right there. Cuz I could ask, that could be another conversation maybe for another time. I've, I've tried, I've tried raw anyway. Well, yes, I have lots of questions. I'll just put, I'll just put that there, but I'm, I'm happy to hear that that is, it sounds like it's been really a beautiful experience for you.
Yeah.
Federico: And you know, just to, to preface, it's, it's not for everybody immediately, right? I think it took me years to build up to this. Most people, if they just go into raw, they can't absorb anything. They're, they feel horrible, and then they give up. And that's the most common experience. It took me years to, to build up to this and, you know, I'm getting there, but we weren't raised to be able to have the digestive system that can handle all the fiber and, and all of that, we need to develop that capacity.
So, yeah, again, as you said, it's, it, there's a whole conversation there, but
Eva: For another time.
Federico: Yeah.
Kyley: Now you have to go back. Is there a time?
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: How about you, Eva?[01:56:00]
Eva: So what's bringing me joy? Um, I would say , I would say, uh, I'm, I think you've shared this too recently, Kylie, but, um, I think my friends are bringing me
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: I mean, you two are, are part of that. Kylie, you, you know, are a huge part of my support system. Um, behind the scenes.
I'm sure I will share about it, you know, eventually on the podcast. But I'll, I'll just say for now, I've been going through some big changes in my life and some of it, it's been kind of difficult and I just feel so fucking lucky. Like,
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: grateful and appreciative of having, of the friends in my life and, and the friends that I have and big fucking deal.
Like, like friendship I think is a really big deal. Like a support system is really a big deal. And I think it's this weird combination of like, you know, we've talked about how. It's just changed now [01:57:00] because whether it was covid or just having moved a lot, or also just being older, a lot of my friends were kind of like dispersed all over the place.
I do have some really good friends here in Portland, which is also really nice. But, but I don't know. At the same time, people have come through and I, I feel, I don't feel, I feel, I don't feel alone. I feel like I have, I don't know, when you're going through hard things, I think like I have just friendship is I think really needed.
And
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: so I think that's why it's important to like, continue to invest in your friendships even when things aren't hard. , right? Because like then when, I guess it's how, how I feel like I just feel grateful that I've, um, I, that I have these friendships, I think as a result of just being intentional. So I feel really that's, that's something that's bringing me joy.
Kyley: Hmm.[01:58:00]
Eva: And I love you
Federico: I love you guys
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. That in there. Yeah. Love you too.
Kyley: Group hug. Group hug.
Federico: Yeah.
Kyley: Um, so what's bringing me joy is that yesterday was the inaugural kickoff for Infinite. Though if you've been following along on my social media and you saw my cool witchy photos from the Red Rocks of New Mexico, Liz Simpson, uh, who, who even mentioned earlier, and I, um, you know, we host our retreats together.
We do magic circle every month. Then we have a, a group course courses and throw word, but a program. Initiation called Infinite. And it's, um, it's really burst out of like, we call the beginning of our friendship and we like crashed crashing into each other. And, um, essentially with this series of like knowings and activations of how, um, how to be, [01:59:00] uh, how'd you be someone who makes friends with their monsters and their shadows.
Um, and so the, the program is sort of these 10 core concepts that we have lived by that have been our like, you know, baton that we passed back and forth to each other. Um, and yesterday was the first like, group call. Um, and it was so fucking great. Like, it was just so amazing. The people who were in this container are just like, ugh.
They just. I don't really have words, they're just, each one of them are truly a remarkable human being. And, um, it feels really, really special because if anything that I've ever made, like it's literally like, you know, come straight from my heart and straight from my belly and straight from my own, um, way of moving through the world.
And, um, [02:00:00] and watching people then like make it their own, um, and add their layer of nuance to it just feels like really, really tremendous. So I am grateful to have fucking cool partners that I get to make things with, like you and Liz. And I'm grateful to like, watch this thing that I've birthed now begin to grow and take shape.
Eva: Hmm. Yeah. That's so beautiful. It's this beautiful, vulnerable, exciting process that I think now you've reached this part where like yeah, you get to, you get to like harvest the fruits of your labor.
Kyley: Yeah. Like in the joy, it's like, yeah, in the joy of like, uh, yeah, just of watching other people.
Eva: Yeah. Passing on, Yeah. Passing on your experience and passing that baton actually to other people. Like there's something really gratifying about that.
Kyley: And, and I think too, this is, I'm having trouble about asking which, but like their wisdom then becomes part of it, right? So then it begins to [02:01:00] be something that's bigger than your right. It like lives outside of you, and then it becomes bigger and their wisdom gets rolled up into it. And, uh, that is also really humbling and
Eva: Yeah. And you're only on week one, baby
Kyley: we're really on week one.
Eva: see how it goes. , I feel like there's just some more to come.
Kyley: yeah. Yeah.
Eva: All right, awesome. Um, better Rico, is there any, uh, so you shared your website. Is there any other way that people can find you or other ways people can work with you?
Federico: Um, you know, in the remote chance. Actually, you know what, there's one person that counted me on hope for dystonia.com that heard, um, our first episode. Um, so I guess there might be someone who is struggling with the neurological disorder. So if that's you, hope for dystonia.com, for everybody else for that.com.
Um, and, you know, one of these days I'll start a YouTube channel. Um, hasn't happened yet, but,
Eva: you would be so fit for one.[02:02:00]
Kyley: Mm.
Federico: and then, you know, I can return the favor and have you guys on. Um, right.
Kyley: wait. wait.
Eva: Yeah. All right. Well thank you so much, Federico. This was amazing.
Federico: Thank you so much. It's such a joy to connect with you guys and it feels, you know, talking about alignment, um, this isn't such beautiful alignment. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.