Eva shares about her hopes and fears about her upcoming big move to live off-grid in the jungle of Brazil. We talk about how the big magic of the jungle is already working on Eva and how vulnerable it feels to let life be really, really, really good.
Eva shares about her hopes and fears about her upcoming big move to live off-grid in the jungle of Brazil. We talk about how the big magic of the jungle is already working on Eva and how vulnerable it feels to let life be really, really, really good.
Retreat information - https://www.theworkwithtom.com/9-16-march-brazil.html
SURRENDER MAGICK - https://www.ravenandmerope.com/surrender-magic
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Kyley's free mini-course
Eva: [00:00:00] Hello, beautiful humans. It's Eva here and I'm coming in after recording the episode, um, after we just had this really beautiful conversation about how. I'm going to be moving into the jungle, into a magical space and, um, allow nature and the land and this adventure totally changed me.
And I think it's hilarious that I forgot to promote a retreat that's going to be happening while I'm there actually on the property or very close to the property where I'll be living. Um, I'm helping my [00:01:00] dear friend, Tom Compton, someone whose work I deeply admire. It's had a, he's had a huge effect on my own, uh, my own freedom, love, joyful human experience.
And um, it's all about Byron and Katie's The Work, which if you've been following me is also a big part of my practice. And so I'm taking all of these beautiful things that I love and combining them. Um, it's partly what I'll be doing in Brazil. So there is a retreat happening on March 9th and. Um, again, it'll be facilitated by Tom Compton.
It will be doing the work, but also doing so much more. And I'm extending the invitation for anybody who, um, wants to join me in person to do this, this beautiful, fun, I mean, truly life changing, heart blasting, open, mind boggling, totally humbling work, um, that will reinvigorate. [00:02:00] Your love for life and your soul and everywhere in between where maybe things are feeling a little bit confusing or stagnant.
So, um, there are. A few spots left, and honestly, I can't hype this, this retreat enough. Um, it's going to just be in the most beautiful atmosphere. There's also going to be a surf lesson and, um, an optional ayahuasca retreat at the end, which I will also be participating in. I've never done it before. That's going to have to be a whole new, a whole other podcast episode.
Um, but it's also just connecting with. In my experience, it's always been really down to earth people who are committed to their path of not non suffering. So if you are interested, there's a link in the show notes. There's also a link in my Instagram. If you have any questions, um, you know where to find me, hopefully Instagram email.
I'm happy to answer any of the questions and [00:03:00] just go take a look at the space. It's gorgeous. All right. Love you.
Hey, everybody. Yeah. Hey, everyone. It's
Kyley: Eva here. It's Kylie.
Eva: Welcome back to hello universe.
Kyley: Um, so happy to be here with everybody. Uh, birds are singing, spring is coming.
Eva: It's early, early in the early morning for you. You woke up at the ass crack of dawn and meet with me
Kyley: a lot of pep in my step for having stayed up way too late for a 6 a.
m. podcast record.
Eva: Oh my God.
Kyley: 6 a. m. Uh, but this is how the universe gives me life. I am like. I got a lot of pep. We're doing good.
Eva: You know, you must love, you know, you know, you must love what you're doing if you're willing to wake up at 6am for it. So
Kyley: yeah, kudos to us. Enthusiasm and like, yeah, no. Yeah.
Eva: Um, Kylie, we have what I hope will be a very [00:04:00] exciting episode to share with our listeners today because I will be divulging some more of my own personal life and unfolding and
Kyley: adventure.
I have been dying to record this episode about your adventure. And I'm like nervous. I'm like, move and all of the juicy things happening. Like I've been dying for
Eva: this episode and I'm like, genuinely nervous, which is interesting to observe. So we'll see what that's all about. So I'm excited to though. And before we dive into that, um, why don't you share with our gorgeous audience?
Uh,
Kyley: what's going on for you? So, um, surrender magic is the thing you can do with me right now. Um, and if you have missed it, if you haven't heard about it yet, it's a six week program, that's about how the fuck to let go and actually let, we talk about surrender all the time on the show, because it's like, it's the thing that we all.
And it's the hardest in a lot of ways, and [00:05:00] it's,
Eva: it's also the solution to all of our problems.
Kyley: Literally the only answer. Like I keep having these experiences where I think like, oh, the answer is X. And then the more I sit with X, I'm like, oh, X is also letting go like every anyway. So I've been going through this really big initiation, this big experience these past couple of months.
And everything that's best medicine just keeps the only invitation keeps being like, you just got to keep letting go. What else can you let go? Like how much more can you let go? And that has been the thing that's made this. So potent and has taken such good care of me. So I put together this course, it's six weeks long called surrender magic.
And it's, it's donation based. So you can pay 5, you can pay 500. And the thing I will just share that's really beautiful is, um, it's been like the easiest frigging launch. Like I've barely posted. I wrote one email. I put maybe three posts that like, I just have been like, Barely telling people about it.
Almost [00:06:00] 50 people have signed up.
Eva: Oh my God. Yes. That's exactly what you wanted to. Like that's,
Kyley: that's like. And then like, you know, I said, I like very genuinely I'm stoked when people pay five bucks for this course. And also y'all, this has exceeded my revenue expectations. I'll just put it that way. Right.
Like I, people have been so beautifully generous. I've been so. Yeah. I've just been so jazzed and delighted by the whole experience. It's been a really cool thing of like really truly letting go and then just being incredibly taken care of, which is exactly what we're going to do in the course. So, um, yeah, I've spoken for sometimes like initiations are really can be hard and sometimes they can be really joyful.
And this launch has been a very joyful initiation. It's like, see, it works when you let go.
Eva: Went out when you let go. Yeah. Well, yeah, basically you're getting a taste of your own medicine of like, you're letting it go and, and trusting that you'll be caught and that [00:07:00] it can work out even better than you anticipated working.
Ah,
Kyley: I was thinking like, it would be fun if six people come do this weird surrender thing, you know? But,
Eva: but it's also, I'm just excited for. You and for everyone who's joining too, because I do think it makes it, it's kind of like a really fun, exciting experience, you know, when there's all these people in it and there's all this energy.
I've signed up folks. And so for the first couple of sessions, I won't be able to join because I'm in Taiwan. And, but hopefully by the time, um, I mean, I'm moving to Brazil and by the time I get there, I might be able to join in person. So if you're joining, we'll get to take this class together to your listeners.
I've recommended it to basically, I recommended it to friends, people who I know who are on the struggle bus. I recommended it to people who want to deepen their spiritual like selves because surrender, I mean,
Kyley: like,
Eva: I think, uh, there's no better way to describe, I think the spiritual experience than surrender itself, you know?
Yeah. So, um, I just think it's going to be [00:08:00] fun and helpful, honestly. And we're going to all leave feeling amazing.
Kyley: And there's all like, there's all these juicy things that I'm getting to do as a business owner, too. Like I hired a community manager, which is fun. We've been talking. She's a client of mine.
She's a really good friend of mine. She loves the podcast. What?
Eva: But hi.
Kyley: Um, and, um, and And like, I messaged her, I was like, this is where we're going to like, let's start here. Right. Like, let's start with Surrender Magic. And so, um, she's going to be our community manager. So, um, which is great because there are 50 of y'all and, um, and so I'm just super stoked of like the whole experience is, yeah, just the thing I've been envisioning for a really long time.
And I'm, it's going to be really juicy and fun and I'm really excited
Eva: for you and for me and for everybody who's joining.
Kyley: Yeah, so come sign up, uh, links in the show notes and let's do some fun shit together. Woohoo!
Eva: [00:09:00] Cool. Uh, okay. Well, I have a much, uh, very simple, um, thing to share, which is that. As this, as this podcast, I'm sure will be titled something about how I'm moving to Brazil.
Just for context, I'm in Taiwan and life has not been busier. I can't remember the last time I've been this busy and I've got like my three clients and that's it. That's like all that I have room for. That's like my capacity right now, but I can't wait till I get to Brazil and land. And I just. I can already feel it in my fucking bones, like the magic that is going to course through me once I get there from being on the land, from being, having the space of connection with me and Soros and people who I love.
But also, um, I just have a feeling that my time in Brazil is going to be a very spiritual experience. And that I think usually makes my coaching much more potent. in a way that it really just feels like a transmission to other people. [00:10:00] And so all of that is just to say, I don't know what's going to happen when I get there, but I will be opening up more spots for one on one.
And if you're interested, and if you wanted to work with me for a while, um, message me and I'll add you to the wait list. Yay.
Kyley: Uh, and that also feels like the perfect transition. You're moving to Brazil and we're going to talk about it on the show.
Eva: Freaking out. I'm leaving in three weeks, guys. Three weeks.
Let's see. That's. I'm actually so I, my flight is on February 22nd, so two, two, two, which I thought was a nice tiny thing. So, um, yeah, and I have like, I've teased quote unquote teased it here on the podcast. I've. Like reference it a bunch. I've even made statements about how I'm moving to Brazil, but like, we haven't had a conversation about that.
And that was actually a little bit not intentional. It was like, because I just didn't know how to talk about it. And for some reason it makes me really [00:11:00] nervous for reasons that we'll uncover today. And so, but now I'm like, okay, it's fucking time. Like, I'm also excited just to shout from the rooftops that this magical thing is happening.
So. We'll see what we uncover.
Kyley: So let's just maybe start with the basics, like what is the, cause I feel like this is part of maybe part of why you're nervous to go, even though you're also really excited. Like tell me about where you're going to be
Eva: living. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And also Kylie, I don't know, you know, some of the details, right?
But like not all, I don't
Kyley: know. There might be details, logistics and details. I'm surprised by it. They're probably that
Eva: I haven't had to share with you yet. So where am I going? Okay. So first of all, my flight door to door from Taiwan, I
Kyley: have told so many people, I'm going This insanity of your flight, 40,
Eva: 40, I thought it was 44 hours.
It's 42 hours. So two fucking days of traveling. And so I am literally on the opposite. These countries are on the opposite end of the world together. I'm trying to, and my, my, my vision is to live in both places. So we'll see how that unfolds. I still plan on coming back to Taiwan regularly and having that [00:12:00] be part of my home base.
And then also spending half of my time in Brazil. Um, and so where am I going? It's I'm going to a place called Garibaba. That's like the closest town. It's. Like I, after Sao Paulo, I have to fly another, take another hour flight to a smaller airport and then from that smaller airport, take another hour drive up onto this mountain, which is literally called the Enchanted Mountain.
Like that is the name of the mountain. And, um, yeah, I'll be living in the
Kyley: jungle
Eva: in a very idyllic situation where. Um, you know, surrounded by jungle like in it, but it's like a 12 minute drive to the ocean to the beach. So I mean, I still can't believe it sometimes cause it feels too good to like, that's what it's like.
It feels too good to be true. But like it. Feels like a, yeah, like a dream come true, like, like a movie, you know, like, [00:13:00] um, some sort of fantasy. That's what it feels like to me anyway.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't think I knew you were that close to the ocean because you've spoken so much about the jungle. So I don't think I quite knew.
I'm very happy for you for
Eva: that. Yeah. Well, that's why. So just a funny. funny, uh, intimate thing listeners that Kylie and I talked about last week offline is that we're both not like great swimmers. And we want to, we talked about wanting to take adult swim classes together because I'm not, I want to be someone who looks sexy in the ocean.
And instead, I'm that person who looks. Like awkward and my bathing suit is slipping off and I'm like, you know, I, I'm a little bit nervous cause I'm afraid of getting sucked into the waves. And um, it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not a cute look, you know, I think I'm a mermaid, but I actually
Kyley: feel more like, this is so funny that they think you're, I,
Eva: Oh no, and I also for practical reasons, I want to be able to swim in the ocean, like [00:14:00] swim laps in the ocean and be like, I would love to surf, but I think the deterrent to surfing is I don't feel.
Yeah.
Kyley: In the water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I also want to learn how to surf, but I'm like, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I have some fear. I'm sorry. This is a sidebar, but I have this whole thing where I also want to learn how to surf. And there's a woman who has since moved, but she was like teaching to her whole thing was like teaching like, kind of like.
Mom's how to surf. She's very cool. But, um, but I, I'm, I have this whole, I have this whole fear that I'm not strong enough. And like, I don't actually think that's true, but I have this story that I'm like, not strong and therefore. I can't learn how to surf. Oh, I haven't told you that out loud. I'm like, this is bullshit.
I think I need to learn how to surf. Well, now that
Eva: you've said that out loud, I'm like, yeah, you definitely need to learn how to surf. And what better place to do it than Brazil? Oh my God. Yes. But I love my cold ass ocean. No offense Atlantic Ocean. You're my favorite. Exactly. Exactly. [00:15:00] No, come, come to Brazil.
But, um. But that doesn't surprise me because we've had the conversations about this in episodes about where we've talked about our bodies. But, you know, I have the whole story that like, I'm not athletic and that I'm a stereotypical Asian woman where we don't like, I didn't play any fucking sports. And, and, you know, like, uh, in my, you know, the lean, my lineage is not particularly like athletic.
And that to me is like a very white person thing. Like you come to America and sign your kids up for like baseball and soccer, like, like, like my immigrant parents didn't do that, you know? So. I totally get that story of like, it's a limiting belief that I think I have about my own physical capabilities.
Kyley: Yeah. Same. Yeah. I mean, I did play sports as a kid. I did the whole American sports thing, but I was bad.
Eva: Yeah. We've talked about this, you know, like being the last one picked on a team or, you know, like I was the last, always the last one running a mile and it sucked. Yes. Yes.
Kyley: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.
Well, I like [00:16:00] this new chapter of. Um, so, okay. So you're going to be in the middle of nowhere, but in the jungle and the ocean. And one of the things that you also shared about this space is like, there's no, like, you're not getting Amazon deliveries.
Eva: Yeah, no. Okay. So the way that I have been describing it is that I'm living off grid.
Because to me off grid, like where the term comes from, it means that you're off like the electrical grid and also you're self sustainable. Like, you're not dependent on, um, the government or the city to provide you with resources. So that means 100 percent solar power, where I'll be living, natural water source.
And I'm really stoked about the solar power thing though, Kylie, like, I think that's going to be really interesting. Um, like natural spring water. And also, yes, the no Amazon packages is only because I recently found out I won't have a fucking [00:17:00] mailing address because it is off the map where I'm living is not on a map anywhere.
Is there any
Kyley: way that like someone can send you a
Eva: birthday card? I think the people who I'll be staying with have made friends with some of like the local hotels on the beach. And so like, you can, I can get like packages mailed there and I can go pick them up, but it's like not a common thing because I don't want to.
Right. Right. And they don't have, and they don't PO boxes there in Brazil apparently. So that's the thing, but, but I just want to say like, as a caveat, um, it was interesting because I mentioned on Instagram that I'm moving off grid and a bunch of people messaged me and they're like, Oh wait, does that mean like, you're not, you're not like working anymore.
You're not going to have, I want people to talk to you because I guess they, it could be interpreted as like no internet. Like I'm right. I'm going off into the woods and you know, cutting myself off from society, like, and that kind of thing. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. I can't live without internet and like literally like also my job, you [00:18:00] know, and so, and I'm not trying to be disconnected from like the rest of the world.
Um, but, but yeah, I, I also think I'm going to be running into some challenges there too of just not having access to maybe certain comforts that I'm used to.
Kyley: Um, so, okay, here's where I want to start. I want to hear some of what you are most excited about, about this
Eva: new chapter. Okay. Thank you for asking me this because I really just, I'm so excited just to gush.
And I think I'm really excited about, I know what I'm excited about. I'm excited about space. I'm excited about communing with mother nature. I'm excited about communing with my God self, which is something that I think I can do regularly. I have easier access to that. I think when I have space and nature, like the nature piece is like, I feel like I'm going and we, we had this amazing, um, [00:19:00] episode with Diana Harper that we haven't aired yet.
Right. But yeah,
Kyley: that'll be up. Yeah. Yeah. Look forward to that guys.
Eva: Yeah. Look, it's delicious. Yes. But you know, we were talking about cultivating, like I'm in a relationship. I'm going there to be in relationship with the land and honestly. This feels really important to me because for people who've been listening to the podcast for a long time, like when I lived in Arizona a couple of years ago, I had never, that was, I had never felt more alive in my, and, and, and in that had a lot to do with my relationship with the desert.
And then I like left and I promised myself that I would always have this really strong connection with nature. And I was always out in nature and I was in Portland and I was in Austin, but I didn't have. That I didn't have the access and therefore I didn't have the intensity that I had when I was living in the desert.
And so now I feel like I'm going back to something that I just know feels. Sacred. Like I can already feel it from here. Like there's a relationship that's being cultivated and
Kyley: I just think it's going to be, [00:20:00] it's just going to get my soul. I also feel it for you. Like every time we talk about this, I could just feel a bunch of the jugglers.
Like, yeah. Like yes. You and me. You and me.
Eva: Yes. You and me. Yes, exactly. And. Um, like nature for me, it's like nature helps me be more in my body and there's no thing that helps me feel more connected to God and source when I'm in nature and through my body. So, you know, cause it's not through the mind. And so I'm like, I'm just, I'm excited to see what I'm going to discover about myself and how I'm going to discover about how I feel when I'm in that environment.
Kyley: Yeah. That's
Eva: what I'm really excited about. And it is interesting that I'm more excited actually about the jungle than I am about the ocean. Not to say that I'm not excited about being by the beach and by the ocean. And I would actually really love to learn how to surf because how fucking cool would that be if that ended up being a thing.
But it's like, I can hear her. She's like whispering [00:21:00] to me. She's like, you know, come find me, come find me. And I want to learn about the plants out there, you know, and,
Kyley: uh, it's, yeah,
Eva: it's, it's more of a feeling than anything else. But. It's, it's, it's like what I imagined maybe what a pregnant mother feels like.
It's like, you can kind of feel the baby in your belly and you're already developing a relationship with this baby before they're even introduced into the world. And
Kyley: it feels that potent. Yes. Except I think you're the baby. I think you're the little baby.
Eva: Holy shit. I hadn't thought about it that way.
Yeah. I'm like, Oh my God, you just blew my mind. I just got a picture of me. Um, in the womb
Kyley: and like this huge, like
Eva: brilliantly colored green space of,
Kyley: of, of yeah, the mother's womb. Yeah. Yeah. I like that image a lot. Yeah. And I just think, um, yeah, I mean, I feel that for you too, that the, the jungle in particular is, [00:22:00] yeah, it's gonna, um, there's something, you know, we have a future episode coming folks that we've been talking about for a while, or even I are going to dig in on what it means to like.
And, you know, questions around spirituality and feeling like, am I going crazy? Which we were very excited about, but there's something about the jungle that feels, and I've spent very little, I went to Costa Rica for my honeymoon. So I spent like, you know, that's, that's kind of my experience in the jungle.
Um, but there's something about it that feels so deep. And un, an unknowable, right. And, and so there's this, there's something to me for you that is, um, about like, look at all those, everybody we're on zoom. And for some reason, my zoom does this crazy thing where just like, it like [00:23:00] randomly adds like effects.
I get thumbs up all the time. Hearts. One day. Yeah, I get hearts. I don't know what I'm really doing that sets them off. And as I was, and I have at this point, just think that it's Loki, God of Tricks, fucking with me to like be part of the conversation and like validating things. One time, like a rainstorm came across, like a rainstorm effect came across
Eva: me.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Kyley: Yeah. I was talking about being upset. So yeah. Anyway, guys, confetti balloons just went off on my Zoom.
Eva: Yeah. It's so beautiful. So colorful.
Kyley: Yeah. But yeah, I was going to say, so apparently zoom slash Loki agrees, but I just think that there's something about, um, yeah, there's something about the like unknowability and the mystery and the depth of the jungle.
That's like, like come and be here. And, and, and there's something in there that's also tied to like, and you are also a [00:24:00] noble and you are all like, I can't put it, I can't put it all into words because you can't, but there does feel like something really, um, I don't know, powerful for you in this. Like it's going to be through an initiation, you and the
Eva: drama.
Oh, yeah. I think so too. Yeah. And I think like, okay, well, to continue and to give you a, a, an additional answer to what I'm really looking forward to in my time there is also just space, like, and stillness and. Simplicity, like I am longing for the simplicity right now because I am in, um, you know, the corporate context in Taiwan, there's just a lot of family stuff going on.
And it's been so busy. And I wake up and it's go, go, go, go, go. And then, and then I come back to home and it's like 12 and my head hits the pillow and. Um, and, and then I'm like up again and it's just like non fucking stop. And I'm not, that's not the cycle that I'm used to. And so it just feels like going to you.
I've
Kyley: never known you to be this, even when you've gone to Taiwan before, like [00:25:00] this is the most, like the longest run of just like constant busyness from the times that I've known you. So it's
Eva: just like I hit the, I landed and it was like, except for like the reprieve I got when I got really sick, which again was, I think a spiritual thing for sure.
Um, I've just hit the ground running and I haven't stopped. So I think Brazil is going to feel like a huge reprieve. And for me, I just know. That simplicity and space are not just good for me. It's like where I thrive. It's, it's really where I'm like, I, it's like, I can feel, I feel my most, I feel most myself, but I also feel myself.
I can also feel myself, not just, does that make sense? I feel the most myself and I could also feel myself. I can experience myself in a very clear, loud. resonant way. And that's [00:26:00] why I think I'm also, so the, the, the paradoxes, I'm also really excited to, I'm really looking forward to working, which is like, I'm going there and I'll like be in the jungle and I'll have like lots of space.
But I also think my job and my business and my career are going to be really closely tied to these things because I know just from experience now, when I'm like, tuned in and turned on and fucking alive. It's like, like my business just, I don't do anything, you know, it just, it, it, it, it's the, um, natural effect I think of me just being more keyed into myself.
So I think that's going to be really fun too. Like I'm stoked. I'm stoked to see what's going to come of it. I think. I have no idea. Oh, and who knows? I might get there and be like, nope, I was absolutely wrong. Like I'm going to be, I might be so, so involved in this like intimate dance with nature that maybe I won't be able to do any work.
I, maybe I won't even be able to function. Who knows? I have no idea what's going to happen. But, um, but, yeah, that's it. And [00:27:00] my dream is that these three things will kind of coincide nicely together. And
Kyley: maybe you'll be in such a delicious place of not being able to work, but it will be the kind of soft surrender where you're taken care of, right?
That's, that's been a lot of my experience with, with surrender magic has been. Um, there have been moments where, like, I have all these ideas of, like, things that I think that I want to say or, like, things that are alive for me but surrender and I'll be, like, writing something in my head while I'm driving, right?
And then, and then it's time to, like, sit down and quote unquote work and all I want to do is just, like, sit and breathe. Like, there's no, it's just like my whole heart is like, no, we don't wanna like, yep. No, they'll learn it when they come in the court. Like it's, and it's not, it's not the same thing that's happened to me before where it's like, oh, I have all these ideas, but I'm too busy and I don't have the time.
And, and so I feel like bummed and frustrated, but it's like, oh, no, no. I have the space these days. And also the thing I wanna do with the space is just like, [00:28:00] sit and, Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Breathe. Um, yeah. And so, and then everything's coming in, like, that's actually the way it's all coming in. So anyways, I feel like your, your business, there will be some expansiveness, but it also might be different.
Eva: Yeah. How that expansiveness is going to look, I have no idea. Yeah.
Kyley: Like how deeply you're taking care of, and it might be that the words and ideas and stuff are totally flowing, or it might be that you're just like. Yeah. This like silent surrender and just things flow in for
Eva: you. Yeah. That I could totally see that being true too.
For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Um, is there anything else that you're, oh, so aside from work, are there other things that you feel. Like they feel exciting to you about the space, like selfishly, personally, whenever I think of having like lots of space, I'm like, Ooh, all the books I'm going to read or all the things that I'm going [00:29:00] to learn.
Right.
Eva: Oh my God. That's such a, yeah. Sorry. Such a me thing. Right. That's
Kyley: like, I'm the person who goes on vacation. Nick and I went away for a weekend. I packed three books. Actually, I'm lying. I packed four books because I read one of them, but I was like, I don't know which one I want. I need to like, I got to know what mood I'm going to be in.
I read for like an hour and I, you know, did not need for four books. So I'm curious to know. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Uh,
Eva: such a good question. Honestly, I think I'm going to go out there. We're going to have space. But the truth is, I also think it's going to be one of those things where time is going to go by so fast.
The next thing I know, I'm going to like, where the fuck did all my time go? And, and, and summer and I'll be, you know, like, um, that I think I just, I'm saying this as having learned from some experiences that like. I have these ideas or ideals of what I will be able to do when I get there and I may not, and I may not be able to actually do any of them.
But it's so [00:30:00] funny because you're talking about reading and everything that I, that is on my list is like so, so like disgustingly practical that I'm, that I'm stoked to do. Like one, I cannot wait to organize my photos. I know that sounds bananas, but I. Or like, and there's just like files, files are a thing that like make my head fucking spin.
And it's just like all a mess. And I've been wanting for months, just like get organized. And I would love to like do that. And then here's another ridiculous, like practical thing is, well, this isn't ridiculous, but like my finances, like I'm someone who tracks my finances really closely. And I like log everything into.
I don't know if you've ever heard of mint, but it's great and it like logs everything. And I haven't been able to do that for like months and months and everything's all in disarray. And like, I don't know if I'm like over my budget or whatever, and it just drives me nuts. So I'm like, I just don't need to get organized.
That's, that's actually what I'm looking forward to, isn't that? And I say that and it's like, it brings me [00:31:00] great gratitude, gratification to do those things.
Kyley: I love this for you. I can feel that. I mean, I don't want to do bookkeeping, but I like when it's done. I like when, when, when, when the person I paid out.
You know, take care of it wherever he does it. Because I mean, there is something about like, like we have, um, we have this like big craft closet cabinet and it's like full of like games and crafts and whatever random shit in our house. And I similarly, like I keep having this fantasy of like, and then I'm like, Or I'm gonna get new storage things.
It's like, I, like, I can like feel the way I want to, like, I wanna open up and like, my kids are always like, mom, where are the kids scissors? And I'm like, fuck if I know . Mm-Hmm. . Yep. Mm-Hmm. . So I, I totally understand the, like, allure of feeling, especially 'cause you've been in this kind of like, busy, busy, busy pace.
So yeah.
Eva: I've just been on the move, you know, too. Yeah. Just like, I, I moved from Austin to Taiwan now Taiwan to Brazil. But I, I would, I do wanna [00:32:00] add to that though. I just. I just have a, I just know, I think because of like where I'm living and who I'm going to be with. I think I imagine dancing and singing are going to just be a lot more commonplace in my life.
And, um, so I'm stoked about that. Oh, there was another thing that just came in that I was, oh yeah, you know what I'm really fucking stoked about is like exercise. I would, and to me, exercise is just like walking around in the jungle and maybe doing some like strength training or whatever, but, um, I've just been, I keep going to my Chinese medicine doctor, basically, I just keep getting cues from all different places of like, yeah,
Kyley: yeah.
You
Eva: need to exercise exercise would be good for you. And I'm like, I can feel that in my body in like so many ways. And so I'm excited for that too, which I think is just going back to like a deeper connection with my body.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay. I love this. Also, can we just talk [00:33:00] for a minute about how great dancing is?
Eva: Can we talk about that forever and ever and ever? Yes, please. Please tell me of your love of dancing.
Kyley: One, this is reminding me of when we went dancing together, which was a great thing that I will cherish forever. And, um, I, I have started doing this thing where, uh, I don't do it every morning. I want to do it more, but I put on my giant noise canceling headphones.
Uh, I don't know why there's something about that that makes this like really great little bubble that's different than just like putting music on the speaker and then like the other morning I like put on it was like 5 30 in the morning woke up early I lit my dark my like you know my altar candles and then I like put Nicki Minaj on and just like danced around for like 20 minutes and it was the best.
Fucking way to wake up. Like, I think 24 year old Kylie thought she had to like light her candles. [00:34:00] Not that I lit candles in, cause I was, I don't know, too busy doing fuck all, but
Eva: like, you were too busy being
Kyley: anxious. Yes, exactly. But then I thought I had to like sit and meditate and like be serious. And it was just this like beautiful, like joyful, silly start to the day of just like.
You know, yeah, listening to club music and like dancing around my living room and, uh, yeah, dancing is just like the fucking best.
Eva: I mean, I think what you're speaking to is like truly no small thing, meaning we know this intuitively on some level, but like Dance is sacred. It's like the way that our body communicates life.
I don't know to, you know, in, in, in relationship with like rhythm and vibration and nature and source and God, it's like this amazing thing that's natural to like all of us. And. And then, and so when we do it, like, Oh my God, duh, we feel better. Like it's, it's, [00:35:00] it's inherent to who we are, you know what I mean?
And also it's not a big enough of, I think most people's lives the way that I think maybe if we were living a less colonial life, I like, I wonder if that would be a bigger part of our culture, you know, like that it wasn't something that we just did when we went to like parties and clubs and I don't know, yeah, more of an
Kyley: everyday thing.
Yeah, that's kind of what I've been trying to do for a little while now. I mean, I would do like, you know, dance parties with my kids, but I've been trying to do it like just for me. I'm just like, Oh, cause your point of like being an intimate relationship with your body is like dance is just, especially because I think so much of.
We make exercise, this like puritanical judgmenty thing that sometimes it can be hard to engage without feeling like, Oh, I should do more or right. It can just be, I think sometimes exercise can be really triggering for some of us. And, and I think dance is like this really great way of just being in movement and watching how delicious it is to move your [00:36:00] body and yeah.
And that you don't have to save and you don't have to save joy for like a fucking wedding. You know, it can be your Tuesday morning. Yeah. Don't
Eva: joy. Yeah. And I do think I feel connected to like. All that is when I'm like dancing to some to like, well, for you, Minaj for me. It might be. Yeah, whatever. You know, it's like, uh, who's someone who I like fell in love with?
Um, God, what's her name? Oh, Rihanna. Uh, Ariana Grande. I got essentially Ariana Grande kick last year and I was just like, this shit's at the best. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Kyley: Yes. Yes. Um, which I feel like that brings me into you. Something you and I've talked about a little bit offline, which is this idea of joy. And I feel like a lot of your trip, you know, your trip, all of your move is about you surrendering to joy.
Right. And like really like letting joy take care of you and, [00:37:00] um, and like. Letting it, watching how it could be safe to have like even more joy. Oh, I'm getting like teared up seeing this. Um, so, uh, I want to ask you about that. Like, yeah, you know,
Eva: okay. Before we talk about that, and I think that's a huge piece of what I would love to share with you and also just hope you continuously coach me through all the ways in which I limit.
that, you know, the joy and, and have insecurities and the vulnerability. But it was really actually really interesting when you use the word trip that I had, my body had this reaction of like, Oh yeah, no, I'm going on a fucking trip. Like it feels like what I've been sensing more and more recently is it feels like I'm about to embark on a fucking.
Like a trip, like a psychedelic trip in which I think everything's going to change and I'm going to like start seeing the experiencing the world differently and experiencing myself [00:38:00] differently. I just have a feeling it's going to be like this really intense, also really beautiful and maybe not intense, but just like.
Potent thing. I don't know if it's like, like I'm diving into some weird portal or something and I have like no idea like what's going to come out on the other side. And I, and I'm excited and nervous, but for some reason it just feels like it's going to be. Not something that I'm doing, something that's being like, I'm not living, but I'm being lived.
And I don't know why I think that or how this is coming to me, but it feels like I'm about to go on some like weird, I don't know, shamanic adventure or something like that, where I don't even know what's happening. And I'm terrified and excited about how it's going to change me.
Kyley: Yeah. I feel that for you too.
That feels like the jungle is going to fuck you up. Like it, there feels like, um, [00:39:00] Yeah, that's a thousand. That's a thousand percent what I feel for you. Also, we're just from this like intuitive witchy place of like, uh, and that's, that's the way the, the, the, when I feel into the way the jungle is like lovingly like drawing you in, it feels like the void, right?
Like the whole, the, the, the, the depth of the jungle, like the depth of the ocean, there's a void, like quality that like unknowability piece, right? Like you can just keep going here or you can just go. Yeah. That's the thing about the void, right? It's like you can go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.
It's infinite. So there is no like final place. It's just you keep falling into whatever it is that you're falling into. Right. And, um, and that, that feels like part of the Part of the mystery of both, you know, I'm thinking of the ocean for me and the jungle for you is like, yeah, you can't, you can't know me, but also, um, but also like, [00:40:00] but also come on in, you know, and, and there does feel like a very plant medicine journey esque quality to the energy of it.
Like I'd really do feel that for you too. Right. And, um, and I'm scared. Yeah, of course, like it, like it, but I think that's the thing about these kind of, you know, as someone who's shared on the podcast before having plant medicine journeys without consuming the plants, like I, you know, I'm a big, uh, I feel like I have a deep resonance with this kind of, um, Um, I can hear my spirit crew laughing as I say that there, um, um, um, you, when you're standing on the threshold of an initiation, you're not even on the threshold because it's already [00:41:00] started.
Like, yeah, of course, like you should be a little scared, right? Not in a like, not in a, like you should be scared bad way, but it's like, yeah. You've, you've signed, you've consented to be changed by this experience, right? Like, that's really what we do. I think when we step into like plant medicine journey or like these big initiations in life, when we kind of surrender and say yes, in these big ways, it's like, we're consenting to being changed and, and that, and that's always a little
Eva: bit scary.
Yeah. It feels to me, it's like, yes, yes. Thank you for saying that. It's like a respectful fear. It's like, and I, and, and it's not like a fear that holds me back, but it's just like a. Oh. I don't know, here we go kind of thing. And also, but again, and like, and I know the process is going to be like beautiful and sacred.
And that's where like the respect comes in. It's like this, it's, it's a respectful fear of, of something that could be really big and of the unknown. And so, and, and Kylie has, has already referenced it, but I feel like this is [00:42:00] where. Like the future episode that we have about like losing my biggest fear is like losing in my mind.
I think that's where this is all going to tie in together because I think I'm going to go there and actually become more sane and see things more clearly than I ever have before and be perceived as more insane. Like that is, I think, cause I've already experienced that. I've seen where that's happened where actually when I start to be act more.
Quote unquote saying like, not do not do things that are fucking insane. I'm actually acting more sane. It appears more crazy in a world where actually everyone's crazy or we do crazy, like. Illogical things all the time.
Kyley: Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's a world like we live in a world that's structured on like self abandonment and disconnection.
And so when you, you know, swim against that, it does. Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a conversation. But, um, it just feels [00:43:00] like that's just a theme I will be continuing to explore this
Kyley: year. Also, I'm already jazzed about this conversation, but also I think when someone is swimming upstream
um, someone is moving against the kind of self about management separation patterning that we're all kind of cooked in. I don't know that it is perceived as crazy. Like, I kind of want to like poke at how much that is even true, because I feel like when someone is really deeply involved, when they're embodying the moves that they're making.
I feel, I feel like the world sees truth, right? The world sees projection, right? We all just kind of see projection all the time. And so maybe if you're someone who's really attached to self abandonment and separation patterns, then maybe you see, you see crazy when people are, you know, doing different than that.
But, but I also think. [00:44:00] I think there's a way when someone is really truly authentic to their own heart, there's a resonance that even if they're making choices that you wouldn't make, there's a sense of you can see a knowing in it and a spaciousness or it gives you permission. There's something really magical that I observe all the time, even when, so it's like, that's not the choice that I would make.
That's not the way that I would move. And also I can observe the ways that you are honoring your own truth and, and, and, and therefore I'm. I'm moved and, and kind of lit up by it.
Eva: I mean, I think it's a really good point. I mean, everything's projection. And as you're saying that, what I'm remembering is that like, we don't see something that, so, you know, Kylie, I've talked about this on the podcast.
Kylie knows I went to this like retreat this past summer, you know, learn, like doing more of [00:45:00] Byron Katie's, the work, and it was like transformative and it was all awesome, blah, blah. And one of the things that I saw so clearly was like, um, It's not, I don't see people as well. No, this isn't new. I don't see people as they are.
I see them as I am. And not only that, but people don't also, also don't see me as I am. They see me as they are. And so I had this very clear understanding of like, Oh, it doesn't matter what the fuck I do. Like people, I can't see people until I'm ready. And I saw actually how unready I am to see it. people intimately, fully as like completely themselves with no judgments.
It's just being like, Oh, you are just a vessel of fucking love because that's what every single person is. And I don't usually walk around the world that way, right? Like I want to, but usually there's like some projection or idea that I have about a person. And so I was like, Oh, I'm just not ready. And I was like, well, if that's how it is for me, that's how it is for every other person, how they see me too.
So it doesn't matter how much I try and do and arrange myself. Like people can only see me as. [00:46:00] Yeah. What they are. And so that's what I kind of hear you say is like, I think maybe that's your experience because you're ready when, you know, when people do some things that are maybe different from how you would do it, but you, there's a resonance of freedom there for you.
And of truth. I think that's because you hold that space probably in yourself. And so you're able to see that in others. And it's also making me realize that again, with this whole crazy thing, and we're already starting to have a little bit of this conversation here in this episode, it's like, Oh yeah.
People who you. have projections of what craziness is might see me as crazy and that has nothing to do with me.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: Which is a good reminder, but also hard for me to practice. I mean, this is
Kyley: the thing I just, yeah, the, yes, it's really the, this is the, the projection thing is something I've been watching a lot lately is like places where it's just been very alive.
It's like places where I feel frustrated or upset or angry about something and then watching how. Yeah. Watching how [00:47:00] much some of my anger is the part of me who does, she doesn't believe she can have those things, right? Like I'm angry about something and I might be angry at another person about something, but the deeper I sit with it, not to invalidate that anger, but the deeper I sit with it, I can also see, well, yeah, because I'm also angry.
Cause I, I think I can't have those things and I'm projecting onto you like, fuck you. You're not giving me this thing, but. Oh, it's all in us. It's just me, it's just me needing to give it to me. Which is also confusing because The anger is part of how you give it to yourself, right? In this particular thing that I'm speaking to.
So it's not like, I'm not saying everything's projection and therefore just like accept everything and don't have peace and don't have anger and don't have boundaries, right? The anger is like, is the medicine for me in this moment. But uh, But yeah, it's a weird, that, that particular thing that it's like projection, but it's the anger is important, but it's me giving it to me, but [00:48:00] also fuck you for not giving it to me.
It's a, it's like a
Eva: trippy. Yeah, it is trippy. It's trippy. Yes. Yeah. But I had, and I also have heard Byron Katie and many of the great sages and teachers of our time say like. The whole universe is just you like we've said that you've said that the whole universe is just you like everything that you're seeing is a projection of you like none of this is real and none of it fucking exist.
It's just the walls in your house that are surrounding you right now. Well, I'm so I'm speaking from my perspective. That's a projection of me. I'm like, I don't know that any of this is real. It can only just be me. This whole universe is me and your whole universe is just you and we're all just projecting it out.
And so we are really the whole universe. And I think when people say that, they don't mean that in this like cocky, arrogant, like way it's more of that. Like you can only ever see things through this incarnation of whatever you are in this moment.
Kyley: Yes. You can only ever see things from this incarnation.
And also [00:49:00] I keep having these experiences, especially in this like surrender initiation. That's like, do you want some, do you want something in the outside world? Like great. You give it to yourself. Like that is like, that has been. A thing that I have experienced and even sometimes taught, but it's like so much deeper and so much louder.
Like, yes. Do you want like, whether it's an emotional experience or whether it's, um, a material thing, right. It's like so, so, so clear that the only thing that exists is you like you're the whole universe also. It's like. So if you don't give it to yourself, you can't get it. Yep. You know? Yeah. Um,
Eva: but also, and conversely, the good news, it's a very good news is that like, you don't [00:50:00] not in this like, um, overly independent way where you're like, I don't need anyone else, but it's more like, I think it's good news because it's like, Oh, you can have anything that you want because you can give this to yourself.
You are the creator and you don't have to wait for something outside of yourself because then you might. Wait your entire life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, what's actually really interesting. I'm actually writing this down. Cause as you said, like, you know, for me, what I'm always looking for is like safety, like due to my trauma, I'm always like looking out for danger and, and, and looking for a sense of safety inside of me. And as you were saying, like your version, your words, I, I, um, input my own version in there. It was like, do I want safety?
And I was like, okay, then I can give it to myself. And that really just like
really. Just made me pause for a second because I, I think safety often comes from like, um, I think I perceive safety to come from [00:51:00] external things like circumstantial. Like, do I have, is there an immediate threat around me? Like, is there, do I have enough, uh, resources? Is anyone here going to harm me emotionally or physically or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I was like, Oh, but. I'm all, I, you know, I, yeah, there's, there's a lot here. Like I can just give it to myself. I can give safety
Kyley: to myself. Yeah. Oh yeah. What does it look like for you in those moments where you give safety to yourself? Cause I think that like.
Eva: Did you ask the question or earlier, like a couple. Last time we talked or this was off the record where you're, you said something about what does safety feel like in your body? Yeah,
Kyley: I think that was, we talked for like another hour or two after we were done recording and we had this whole conversation about bodies and, and yeah, I asked this question of myself based on some brilliant coaching from you that was like, okay, well, what does safety feel like in my body?
What does safety [00:52:00] feel like?
Eva: Yeah. I think that question really stuck with me and I haven't done any exploration of it since we left that conversation because I've just been in go mode. But, but that in itself is an answer is that I don't feel safe when I'm in go mode because go mode is immediately I'm in my mind.
And so safety for me is starts with just even being in the body. It's not even about what it doesn't feel like. It's just like being in the body in itself is a safe place to be. Um, where I think I'm kind of absent of mind, but anyway, I don't know. That could be like a whole nother conversation right there.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to be continued.
Kyley: can we weave safety and joy together? Oh, yes. Cause I want to come back to this question around. and joy for you in this experience and um, yeah, what it looks like.
Eva: Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's just dive in because we got like 20 something [00:53:00] minutes left and I got lots to say. Oh, good, good, good. Okay. So here's the deal.
You know, those memes that we've, that we've been seeing on Instagram where people are like, I don't want to work a nine to five. I just want to like, go live in the woods and talk to mushrooms and lay on the grass. And like, that's what life should be and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? I feel like that is what's happening to me.
Like, I feel like I have in some weird ass fucking way, miraculous, it's a miracle actually. It feels like a miraculous way. We have won the fucking lottery and I get to go do a version of that. And it is. Actually winning the lottery is a wonderful example or a wonderful analogy. It's funny that I chose that because you know, you hear about lottery winners.
Who actually like then spend all of their money and they're actually more depressed and miserable to begin with. I think it's because we have a really hard time, like our holding joy and our nervous system gets all out of whack. And for me, what's happening is like, I'm like, Oh my God, this is too good to be true.
This is, this is a dream [00:54:00] come true. I have all this joy. And, and immediately because it feels so good. I feel very, very, very, very, very vulnerable. Like so fucking vulnerable because it means I can immediately lose all of it. Or I'm like, Oh no, I was wrong about this. And I'm a total idiot. And I'm just some airy fairy stereotype of like the worst, you know, the person who I don't want to be, uh, who was unrealistic.
And, um, you know, I've talked to you about these fears. And, uh, and so I constantly, I'm on this rollercoaster of being so joyful and then fucking and like holding myself back from all of that and being like, nope, you got to be realistic and like prepare for the other shoe to drop and think about all the ways that this could go wrong so that you can protect yourself, uh, when shit hits the fan.
Yeah.
Kyley: And it [00:55:00]
Eva: is a fucking rollercoaster. And I feel. And I can watch it happening and it's like all good, but I really feel like, Oh, I see what it's good. I see what's happening. And I don't know yet if I'm like out of the cycle, but I can at least say, like, see, like, Oh, well, I, my nervous system isn't is expanding its capacity for, for this type for this level of joy and fun.
Freedom and me and this, this, this magnitude of miracles. Um, and I think for me right now, my process
Kyley: is just being in that dance. Oh my God. I relate to this so fucking much. Um, yeah. Joy is, I mean, Brene Brown talks about this, like right. How vulnerable it is to be joyful. I think it's actually the most, I think it's like one of the most, well,
Eva: you're, you're the one who's always saying this, that it's actually the most [00:56:00] vulnerable to like, be this joyful.
I've heard you say that. Yeah. In different iterations.
Kyley: Yeah. I mean, I love that we're having this conversation because I'm, I'm obsessed with how I think we're fucking terrified of joy and I don't think we give ourselves credit for it. So we don't get to do your process. Right. What you're speaking about is the whole process, right?
Joy shows up and we contract because joy is so vulnerable. And Yeah. Right. And I think we don't give ourselves credit for the fact that joy is scary and vulnerable. So then we gaslight ourselves, right? And we're like, well, I should just be happy or nothing is wrong or like, why am I being afraid? And we don't, we don't hold ourselves gently through the process of softening into joy.
And so then I think we just stay, we can often than just stay in that kind of contracted place. So even though things are great, we're not enjoying, we're not able to enjoy it the way that we want to, because. We're afraid, but we're pretending that we aren't or we're pretending that we shouldn't be or, um, and so [00:57:00] I'm like obsessed with your, with this journey that you're speaking to because I think it's, I just think it's the thing we don't give ourselves credit for.
Yeah. Yeah. And. I
Eva: mean, it's helpful to see it, but also I'm like, is this just how it goes? So basically listeners, I left Kylie this voice message the other day where I was like all excited about something. And I went on there to talk about like Brazil and I was gushing and squealing and whatever. And she, and I, every time I like got happy about something.
I would then have some sort of like qualifier or something like explainer where I would just try and also tamp down the joy a little bit. And then you called me out on that. So Kylie being who she is, the wonderful observant friend that she is, it's like, what if you tried leaving that message without all of the, what would you call it?
Like the caveats, I think. Yeah. The, yeah. The caveats are like, and I was like, Whoa, that feels. It felt hard actually, and it felt, [00:58:00] it just showed me all the limitations that I have on my freedom. Cause then I was like, well, then I'm showing off too much. I'm bragging. I don't deserve this. Like, why do I get to have all this like shame stuff coming up?
Like it's just crazy. Like good things happen. And then, which is what we are all wanting. We all want good things to happen. Like this is what we're all moving towards, right? We want to live like a happy life and then all of a sudden like this joyful thing comes in. And. Yeah. There have to be all these caveats.
And so I guess my question to you, Kylie, is like, what's, what's the deal here? What's the alternative? Well, I mean, this is
Kyley: very, this is, I think this is very much an edge for me too, but I think we have to start by acknowledging that our joy, the joy is vulnerable and therefore uncomfortable and we have to stop judging ourselves for that reaction.
Right. I think we just short circuit the whole process when we don't give ourselves credit. Right. Like. This is actually a scary, hard [00:59:00] thing to do to let yourself be like madly in love with life, to be like. Let more to like really let joy in and then let even more joy in like that's scary.
Eva: Wow. Sorry, I have to write this down.
Actually, that's really beautiful. It's scary to be madly in love with life. Yeah.
Kyley: Oh, it's terrifying. Cause you're consenting to have your heart broken. Right. I mean, you know this, I've said this before about like, you know, like. When we fall in love with a person, it's like, okay, you're consenting to hang her up because like best case scenario, one of you dies,
Eva: right?
Oh, yes. Yeah. We talk about this. Yeah.
Kyley: And I think, but like, Also, and this has been a really big thing that's actually come in for me in this like big initiation that I've been going through these past few months is like, yeah, love and heartbreak. They're the same thing. And like, and, and I think part of why, you know, we'd [01:00:00] do as you said, like part of why we want to maybe reign in our joy is because we don't want to get hurt.
And also of course we're going to get hurt. You know, like I have this experience. What'd you know about where I woke up at, this is a little while ago, very early January. And I was, I was going to bed and I felt a very strong call to like, wake up at the crack of dawn and go to the beach in the morning.
And so five o'clock in the morning, I woke up texting my husband in case he was wondering where I was. I was like, I'm going to the beach. And it was like a. Nor'easter. I mean, it was like a, like the, like windiest, coldest, gnarliest, like trees falling down, people losing power kind of weather. Of course, this is when I get sent to the ocean and, and I'm standing there in this like terrible weather.
Soaked to the bone and I could just feel life [01:01:00] kind of hammering into me with tremendous love This is what it means to be alive What it means to be alive is to have your heart broken and like that's that's that's not even the cost of admission That's the whole fucking point is to let life She's like, break your
Eva: heart, break your heart open
Kyley: though.
Exactly. Break your heart and then break your heart open and then do it again and again and again. And like, and not from a like sadistic suffering place, but just like joy. You can't separate joy from heartbreak. Mm. You, you just can't. Right. And so if you would like to,
Eva: what do you, what do you mean when you say that though?
Do you mean because inevitably someone or something's gonna break your heart? Or, or like, I'm
Kyley: curious Yeah. What, yeah. No, I mean, I, what I actually mean by that is, um, that if we try to separate joy from heartbreak, that's we are, we end up building walls. Mm-Hmm. . And then we [01:02:00] actually keep joy out. Right. So if we, so, so if what I asked, yes, to your point, like inevitably life will break your heart because death, loss, whatever.
But what I actually meant was something maybe like one layer. I'm like an energetic perspective, which is like, if you separate them, you can't have them. Right. If you try to create separation, that's like, I'm not, I'm not available for heartbreak, but I want joy. Right. Right. You're actually building a wall and joy can't come in.
Right.
Eva: Right. To me, that's like a very logical thing. It's, he feels it's like saying. Well, how are you supposed to experience joy if you're not willing to be vulnerable and break your heart? Like that's like you, you're continuously putting, um, like a stop at any moment, like any moment before you are vulnerable, you like stop yourself cause you're like, no, no, no, no.
Like I'm going to get hurt. Then, and then of course you're not going to [01:03:00] experience any like that profound moments of joy of like, of that come from being a whole
Kyley: human. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And, and there's this wild thing that I think we do that logically makes sense, which is like, no, no, no, I'm not going to get hurt.
Here's all the reasons why I'm not going to get hurt. And that doesn't work because your heart is like, no, we're going to get hurt. Like, but not necessarily in the way that your mind has come up with why you're going to get hurt. But it's like to be alive is to like stub your fucking toe. Right. And so I think we, we try to, we try to talk ourselves into being open by saying, no, no, here's all the ways in which I'm safe.
Here's all the ways in which I don't have to be afraid. These are all the ways in which like this person will never leave or this thing will never happen or, and all of that's actually fucking bullshit and your heart knows it. Right. Because what the real answer is, of course, I'm going to get hurt.
That's the whole point. Yeah. You know?
Eva: Yes. So like what? So basically when you say that, all I [01:04:00] I'm hearing is like, and you just keep saying yes. You're like, okay. And. And that's okay. Meaning it like I've noticed and like I invite listeners to join in also like, what is my experience when I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not going to get hurt because X, Y, and Z.
Like if I try to like logic my way out of it. It, on, on the surface, it appears as a kind thing that you're doing to keep yourself safe. But actually, every time I do that, what I actually feel in my body is more unsafety because I'm trying to like convince myself that this thing is not going to happen.
And I don't, I have no control over that. And the truth is, I just don't know. It actually feels much more safe when I go, Oh, and what if to surrender, you know, to Using language that I feel like you would resonate with, but also to say, to like, let that in and allow that instead of resisting it, allowing it and not being afraid of it being like, okay.
And also that might happen [01:05:00] too. And what if that's totally okay? What if that's like a bad thing? What if it doesn't mean that you're going to be, um, you're not gonna like die and live a miserable life from it. You know, it's like, you don't have to be afraid, I guess, of things that are really difficult.
Kyley: Well, I think that's the nervous system capacity stuff too that you're talking about, right? Because I think, you know, we all have these frazzled nervous systems because we are, you know, live in a fucked up world and have our own personal and collective traumas. And so we're, I, the, the nervous system work I think is also about giving our body and ourselves the, the sense of resilience, right?
That's like, okay, I can, I can. I can be vulnerable and I can consent to the possibility of being hurt because I trust that that will be a safe experience for me, even if it's a painful experience, that it will be safe. [01:06:00] And that I think is often like a gentle process, just like a, like a slow unfolding. I'm thinking of like a flower kind of softening and unfolding, um, that like.
The pain can be say, like, yeah, the getting hurt, which again, I don't mean this in the sadistic, like go get hurt all the time, but just like in being, in being willing to let life break your heart. We the, a key to that is. This like safety that, and I'll be okay and, and it will be beautiful and it will be like a breaking open, like you said, and, um,
Eva: yeah.
And I think what's to like, end this conversation for anyone who might find themselves in a very vulnerable place with like joy, or maybe you're, maybe you're like any, [01:07:00] any of it, like you're changing careers or you're getting into a new relationship where you're ending your relationship or you're starting motherhood, you know, any.
Time life is lifeing and there's that huge vulnerability. The thing that's been most helpful for me, , is when I do feel the fear is I'm like, um hmm. It's like, oh, and I'm really proud of myself for saying yes to life anyway. Like Mm-Hmm.
Kyley: because I, meaning
Eva: I'm scared. And, you know, it's the whole like Glennon Doyle thing.
Like is it Glennon Doyle? I mean like do it scared or like Mm-Hmm. be scared and do it anyway. But it's more like that's a risk that I'm willing to take. Like, this is a conscious choice that I'm making. I'm like, Oh, I could go to Brazil and this could totally fucking blow up in my face. And maybe I'll come back six months with my tail between my legs and.
Like, uh, I don't know what I get all of it was just, you know, and, and just, and I feel like a total failure, I guess is what I'm saying. [01:08:00] Like that could, like, I think that's like a big fear that I have. I'm speaking out loud, like some weird self conscious fear that I have that if it doesn't quote unquote work out, that means that I failed or whatever, but, and then, but even then I'm
Kyley: like, Yeah.
But,
Eva: I'm like, I, this feels like an integrity with me because I'm like, isn't this what I'm always talking about? It's like, I have to try and I'm willing to try. And if I fall flat on my face. That's not a failure. That's the failure is not trying. The failure is being too scared to even do it. But I'm like, if I will have gone and put myself out there and let myself be totally fucking vulnerable, like that's a success.
That's like a big deal because that's like the hardest part. You know what I mean? So it's like really fucking scary. And also there's this like, and God damn it, I'm doing it anyway. Like look at me, look at me, I'm grabbing life by the balls is what my friend said. And I, you know, like turning 40 and grabbing life by the [01:09:00] balls.
And I'm just like, yeah, I don't know any other way to do it. Yeah.
Kyley: I think also there's this thing of like, um, I love what you're speaking to. This has been something I've been practicing a little bit more too, is acknowledging like Oh, I'm like really, I'm showing up for myself in big ways, you know, and I think that's a thing that we can, I don't know, undermine or not pay attention to or whatever.
And it, it, it is a really. It's a really big and kind thing to just like witness how you're like choosing yourself. Mm hmm. I know. And like really celebrate who know, like, wait, you're stepping off into the unknown. You're launching yourself into the void of the jungle. Yeah. And yet, um, you're, you're doing it with like open, soft, open.
You eat your whole, even as you are scared, you're holding this, the fear in the soft open, [01:10:00] vulnerable, you know, as a vulnerable thing. And, um, and so how can it, how could it not take like really delicious care of you?
Eva: Yeah. You know, yeah, thank you for saying that. And, and I just, yeah, it's just funny because I think you and me, I know we've been doing this podcast for what, four years now.
And I feel like it's just one long journey of both of us doing scary things. We're just constantly doing our own version of like scary things and, um, you know, allowing it to be messy, but, but sorry, before we have to wrap, I just want to, I want to say one more thing before we get to joy. It's because I think I, I, I think it's so.
This conversation about the vulnerability of joy is really helpful, but another practice that I think is really important for me, it's like they're two sides or they're, they're both equal parts of the puzzle. It's like, yeah, letting, like letting there be fear and letting that in and be like, yeah, this, this is scary and that's okay.
And also it's equally important for me to be like, oh, and what if [01:11:00] it all fucking worked out? Like that's equally important to me because the other thing we just talked about is a lot of, um, management of fear, but like, what about. the management of endless fucking possibility, which is actually really what I'm going for here.
Let me just be very clear listeners everywhere. It's like, I want to fucking test the boundaries of how life good, like how good life can actually fucking be. And I want to know that there's no fucking limit. And there, it doesn't even exist that anything is possible because we're infinite beings and we could like create anything that we want.
And. And I, you know, I say that and I get go cringe and I'm like this, I come, I bring myself back down again because I'm like, Oh, I just sound like some YouTube person who's talking about manifestation. But also it's true. Like, I believe that I'm like, I want to experience the unlimited potential of life.
And I think it's totally fucking possible. And what if it not only worked out, but worked out like even better than I would have [01:12:00] caught what my, my small imagination could have even conceived of. And I actually think that's like. I'm on the precipice of that. Like, I think that has a real possibility of like, that's what's on the other side of allowing myself to fail and having it all be scary is that I'm making room for the kind of happiness, joy and freedom that the great saints Of our time have written about
Kyley: are you on the precipice of that?
Or are you right there in it?
Eva: Oh,
Kyley: that is a good question. I think that's the thing we do, right? I mean, I closed my eyes and just was like, really receiving what you were speaking. Cause it's medicine for me right now and. I think we, we, uh, one of the ways we protect ourselves from the vulnerability of joy is that we make it always right around the corner, right?
And we, we, um, we're almost right, or [01:13:00] almost there, almost there, almost there. And I think that's, um,
Eva: you're like blowing my mind right now because I'm like, yeah, what's, you know, I'm, I'm waiting for me. I'm like, oh, well, you know, once I get to Brazil, like that'll be like an obvious thing and I'll be in the jungle and I'll be with all the nature sounds, blah, blah, blah.
But I'm like, there is no separation between now. And then like, this is it. This like, this is the beginning of me saying yes to that version of life. It's already started. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If this is it, you're, you're here,
Eva: And I get the sense that you're saying more than that too. It's like, maybe we're always here. I don't know.
Kyley: Yeah. I mean, I think there's, I think that's the success, the question under the question, right. It's like, then you, like, when I think, you know, you have the moment of realizing you're here. And then you look back and realize you've always been here.
Eva: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, yeah, that's like a really good point. And I totally hear you [01:14:00] on like the, just a little bit more, you know, just like around the corner, around the corner, but,
Kyley: and the paradox, like I do think, like, I feel the energy movement myself very much of like, you know, I keep talking about how I'm in this initiation and I can like, I can feel it moving its way through me, like that there's a kind of completion cycle to this initiation.
Right. Which will then I'll just be in a new one, but like, and I'm like, okay, I think we're probably, you know, like spring has been a really big metaphor around what I'm moving through and like. Today is, you know, the midpoint between Christmas or between winter and spring and the spring birds are out.
And I'm like, okay, like we're, we're, we're like getting closer. Quote unquote. Sorry. So, so it's paradox, right? I do think we move. There are these moments of like arrival and of like completion cycles and of like, Oh, this is it. This is the thing that I've been walking to all along. And I kind of think we are quote unquote arrive there when we realize we've always.
Eva: [01:15:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Kyley: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Ooh. Anyway. Yeah. To do around a joy. Let's do joy. You joy right now.
Eva: Let me take a moment to think. Okay. So one thing that's bringing me a lot of joy, and this is a recurring experience that I have every time I come back to Taiwan is awesome fucking relationship I have with my cousins and we all live.
all over the place. And we all come back to Taiwan as like a hub. And I just think it's really cool. And I'm really grateful to my parents and actually all of my cousin's parents, basically, you know, my parents and their siblings for making that effort to help their kids have that relationship. Because I guess what I keep thinking is like, when my grandparents die, And then when my parents die, like what's going to be my tie to Taiwan and of course the, the land and the space, but also like, it's still gonna be family and, [01:16:00] and it'll be my peers.
And I just, you know, I, you, I've heard of stories before of like when the parent dies, when the grandparent dies, like my grandparent's house is like the hub. And sometimes I think when the grandparent dies, um, there's no more hub. Yeah. It changes the dynamic. And like, maybe the kids that like, like the parents, like, you know, the, my grandparents.
My parents generation, they're not as close. And then like everything, everyone just sort of like loses touch. And I totally see why that could happen. Like, I get that. And I just, we've talked, we've had conversations with my cousins of like, we're not, we don't want that to happen. Like, we make an effort to hang out with each other and tell stories and talk shit about our parents and how they're all crazy.
And like, and yeah. It's just a really special bond and I think it's particularly special because we all want it. We all want in like, I make an effort because [01:17:00] it feels important to me that we have this connection and I can feel that they feel like same exact way. They're like, Oh, no, this is important.
And I want to be close with you. And I want to have this like familial tie. And that feels Just really special. Yeah. And we, and we have a great time together. So yeah, I think that's, and I just bring that up because I went to dinner or I had got drinks last night with two of my cousins and it's like, we never even see each other that often.
And in some ways I'm not, I don't even know all of them that well, because we don't get to see that each other that often. But when we get together, man, we always have a great time.
Kyley: That's really cool. That's really cool. I really like that. Well, thank you. As someone who has a really big family and, and is close to a lot of members of my family, but also, especially since my grandparents died, you know, quite a while ago, there is, there is a like.
A more [01:18:00] nebulous feeling to the family network and, um, and so for me, it's a lot, it's become a lot of like individual relationships, whereas when I was little, it was like, Oh, like you go to your grandparents and there's like a house of like 40 people, right? My mom's going to 10 and, um, and, and I'm really grateful for the, the individual relationships are also like, it's, it's, it's different, sweet energy.
And. Um, yeah, every time I see you post like pictures of you and all your cousins, I do think like, Oh man, that's so fucking cool. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All
Eva: right. Kylie Caldwell, what's bringing you joy? Oh my God.
Kyley: So many things. I like love this that I have so
Eva: many things that I can just like lit up, lit up.
Kyley: Yeah. It just feels, it feels really beautiful to realize. That I have, you know, 20 different things to choose from. Um, have I shared about my office on the pod? I showed that I got an office. Yes. Right. So new additions to the office is now I have a pink velvet
Eva: couch. [01:19:00] Such a tourist purchase. I saw your Instagram, but also just like the vibe of it.
I love it. Yes. Like, did I
Kyley: start with a, um, a desk? Yeah. Nope. I started with a pink velvet couch and it's so fucking great. And I like, uh, and I, it fits exactly in the wall so I can look out the windows and I am just like, I texted my friend a picture of it and I was like, I live here now. Just so I love, I love, it's like, it feels so sweet to have this private space to have this exquisite couch.
It feels very delicious to just be like slowly letting it unfold the like, you know. Um, and the other thing that's bringing me joy, I'm going to say two more things. That's how much joy I have right now. The other thing that's bringing me joy is, um, I have wanted to learn how to learn about herbalism forever and the other day, but I've always felt like it's just, I'm like, [01:20:00] it's not time yet, but when it is, I'm going to do it.
And the other day I was making tea and it dropped into my head, like. This vision of having like all of these like various herbs and teas and just intuitively like making my own like, Oh, let's do chamomile and lavender and you know, whatever, whatever. And I just had this vision and I was like, Oh, I was like, it's time.
And I put this post in this Facebook group that I'm in, which is also how I found. The office. So this group is like, um, and I was like, it's called spiritual women of New England, by the way, if you want to join it too. And, um, and I was like, Hey, does anyone here like teach about like making intuitive teas and herbalism?
I wanted to learn. And this person responded, a bunch of people responded, but someone got tagged and responded. And I had one of those moments. As soon as I saw her name, I was like, my body was just like ding, ding, ding. And then when I started messaging with her, she lives in the town that my fucking parents live in.
[01:21:00] Oh my gosh,
Eva: that's amazing. What? And then
Kyley: the more we talked, there were like a thousand synchronicities. She's taught a class about flower essences at my mom's studio. Like, oh my god. Just like the
Eva: number of things like,
Kyley: Oh, and I love that my body was like, ding this person. And then we were talking and it was just like, what, I'm excited for you.
We're going to, we don't even know where she's like talking it out, but basically like, she's going to be my like little herbalism mentor and I was so stoked. And I'm not doing it for work. Right. Like, it's just me. 'cause I've done so much like learning and, and I'm just like, I just wanna make witchy
Eva: teas for myself.
Yes. And I can't wait. I'm actually like so stoked for you. I, we, we've talked about this. I dunno if we have that. Like, I love herbalism and like, I like Mm-Hmm. like it's a baby practice of mine. But, and I've taken some classes and I will say that. That like taking, I took this like two semester course in, uh, [01:22:00] in Brooklyn and, and it wasn't even semester.
It's like a very like DIY down to earth kind of class. Anyway, it was one of the most nourishing experiences I've ever had. And I just think that's like, what's I'm, I have a feeling just like what you're going to get out of it is going to feel so intensely rewarding. So,
Kyley: so stoked. Yeah. I'm really, really stoked.
Really, really stoked. And then the third thing is that one of my dearest friends in the world, we, she's, she's my college roommate. We went to grad school together. Like we, you know, lived a mile away from each other for a decade. Um, she is in my house right now, downstairs playing with my kids and feeding them breakfast and her and her husband, um, But anyway, they've, they've been visiting town a lot.
And we went for a while where we like, barely saw each other. Not, we were stayed, same closeness in each other's hearts, but our lives and both of them are ADD. We've just like, [01:23:00] struggled to be in person for a while. And there's been just like a bunch of moments lately where, uh, we've been. Together in person and I'm just like blown away by the gift of 20 years of friendship and like how much, yeah, just the like delight of the delight of old deep.
The deep, that kind of deep well of friendship and, and, yeah, and the joy of like, she's in my house with my, with her husband and they're playing with my kids. And like last night I was like, I had the podcast in the morning, it's kind of cooking. She's like, I'll feed him, I'll feed your kids breakfast. Like no big deal.
And
Eva: well, not only that, but like, I, you messaged me yesterday and like, yeah, you told me that you had, you stayed up really late having tea together. And I, that, I just love that. I just love the vision of two old friends. Like that is the quintessential. Like me, you know, friend set up that I think of it all the time.
It's just two people having connecting over tea at [01:24:00] a kitchen table or something. You know what I mean? Oh, it's so intimate and
Kyley: warm. And to be loved by someone for like that long is just this like very sweet. It's this very sweet thing. The way that you know each other when you've known each other for
Eva: You know?
Yeah. Especially like know you better than like, yeah, in certain ways they know you better than other people. Yeah.
Kyley: And, and so I just, um, um, I guess I'm just relishing being known and loved and, and I think also the intimacy of like the shared family, right? Like my kids were like, Michaela and R. B are gonna be here and they were like, so excited, you know?
Um, so yeah. Yeah. So. Lots and lots and lots and lots of joy. Well,
Eva: yeah, it fills my heart knowing that your winter is being filled with so many joyful things. It does, it does seem that, you know, even as you continue to [01:25:00] go through a wild ass. Journey and storm and whatever it's like, there's also love and warmth and joy all around.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Support. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All
Eva: right. Dear listeners, we love you so much. My arms are like way out here right now. And if you like this episode, or if you like the show, please support us by subscribing, sharing with a friend, leaving some comments. You can do that at Instagram or in. Or I'm not on Instagram, you can do that on Spotify or iTunes.
Um, it really helps us grow. Thank you so much.
Well, since this episode is all about Brazil and sharing about my move to Brazil, it feels very apt that I also extend an open invitation to our dear listeners to join me for a beautiful week. Um, In on this enchanted mountain where I'll be living, although there's going to [01:26:00] be a retreat hosted by one of my favorite people on the entire planet, Tom Compton, who is, um, someone who, uh, has had a huge, profound, positive effect on my own personal journey and liberation and in this joyful life.
And, um, if you know me, or maybe you've, uh, Listen to some of these episodes before you all might also know that I am a big fan of Byron Katie and, um, the work by Byron Katie. It's Bye. One of my favorite, uh, go to's for, I think, um, disassembling my mind and helping me experience what truth is for me. So I'm taking all of these things that I love so very much and combining them.
Um, this, my, you know, my wonderful friend, Tom Compton, who's an amazing teacher, Byron Katie, the work, and then also this new home where I'll be living is where. Basically, the retreat is going to be taking place and the retreat starts [01:27:00] March 9th. There are a few spaces left, actually, like very few. I mean, we are going to sell out and, um.
Once people heard that this was happening, um, there were like a lot of people who signed up, signed up really early on in the process. Um, and honestly, I just, I can't recommend this enough. I just know it's going to be such a life changing experience and bring so much clarity and ease and life and joy and sustenance to all the places that maybe you feel where you feel confused or stuck and all little tiny cracks that maybe you aren't seeing yet where, um, You can just use a little bit of TLC.
And not only is the work and the experience going to change you, but the environment is just so gorgeous. And, uh, you'll be by the beach. You're staying in this beautiful boutique hotel. Um, There'll be a surf lesson. There's going to be, oh my God, just so [01:28:00] many things. I don't even want to spoil it all for you, but it's going to be so freaking awesome.
There's me walks in the jungle. There's me really awesome people there. Every time I have attended one of these events, it's like, partly what makes it awesome is that everybody just like opens up and you get to connect with people in a really intimate way that I think is honestly black. I think it's something that we all long for and is a little bit lacking sometimes, um, in our day to day.
And I'm talking about like really deep intimacy in a way that's not cheesy, but so beautiful. Um, and again, I'm going to be there and essentially in a way I'm inviting you into my new home. So, and I am just so excited about it that I really want to share it with people who. are genuinely interested in devoting themselves to the process of, you know, non suffering and enjoying this life and finding brilliant freedom for yourself.
Anyway, if you are interested, you can, uh, there's a link in the show notes. You can find more information in my [01:29:00] Instagram and my bio. Just message me, shoot me your questions. I'm happy to answer. I'm helping organize the whole thing.
Eva: So, um, we can chat.