Eva did it! She drove across the country—with her plants in tow—and has arrived at her new home (for now). She updates us on the grief and glee of her epic adventure.
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Eva and Kyley
Eva: [00:00:00]
Hello everybody.
Kyley: Welcome back to Hello Universe.
Eva: We are so excited to be here because I think it's been a while since Kylie and I have had a chance to really sit down and record Kylie and Eva episode because honestly, like I've been on the road, there's been a lot of transition happening. Kylie's also just had her hands full with a bunch of shit. Am I right?
Kyley: Yes, yes. Yeah. . Yeah. We had an offline conversation briefly about you were, you were basically like, oh man, ev, everything's been such in flux for me. I'm sorry. Like, read the podcast and I was like, it's been very convenient [00:01:00] because everything been very in flux for me too. So . It was convenient. It was convenient of our chaos to line up at the same time
Eva: Yes. It's very convenient. Exactly. Um, but it feels so good to be back in this space with you. I cannot wait to share with everybody about, um, the road trip that I've. Recently completed my move to Austin and updates about where I am now, including being in an Airstream trailer, which is my new home. I'm like literally sitting on the floor of the Airstream trailer right now.
Um, still getting, you know, unpacked and situated of course. But yeah, there's a
Kyley: really nice to like, like the settledness of just you in place, even though it's still interest, right. Even though they're still unpacking and settling in and all of that. Like there is a, I don't know, I'm thinking of astrology now and it's like, yeah, like Capricorns need home. You know, like you're, you're, you of all people can roll with, um, you [00:02:00] know, change and transition.
And also, I don't know, like
Eva: Oh no, I love fucking, I'm like, I'm an earth sign. There's something about that, like being grounded to the earth about having like, routine and, you know, I'm a type A person, so I like routine and I like structure, so. Yeah, and I'll probably talk about that too. My constant, seemingly opposing desire for both stability and adventure at the same time.
is like, it's like such a theme in my life
Kyley: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, same, same. We're we're different and it shows up differently, but that's totally something I've been been thinking about a lot lately too. So,
Eva: Yeah. All right. Well, before we dive in, Kylie, why don't you share with our beauty whole audience what you've got going down the pipeline?
Kyley: uh, all right. Listen up. Everybody. Door's closed for villain error on Friday. I don't know what you're waiting for cuz it's the greatest thing that's ever happened.[00:03:00]
Eva: I mean, yeah. Who? I think everybody here, it's about time that we enter our villain era, and some of us need support with that though, you know?
Kyley: I mean, I think we probably all need a little help unless you're actually have already mastered becoming like a marble super villain. Short of that, you need some help stepping into your villain era. And we have got you, um, doors closed on Friday, uh, March 3rd, and yeah, it's just, you know, I talk a lot about how like you live a, a program like during the launch of it, like you often receive the medicine, I think, of what you're birthing.
And, um, this has just been so much fun, , you know, like I have also like gone deeper into the medicine of it and I have felt, but it ha and I have felt a lot of shifting and evolving and it has been so just delicious and fun and full of this feeling of possibility and [00:04:00] liberation and actually just fucking enjoying your life.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Which is what we're all hungry for, you know? And most of us, I think, carry this programming that if you can fix what's wrong, then you'll get to the place where you enjoy your life. But it's actually our fixation on there being a problem that causes the problem to exist. You know, the pro, like these internal ideas that like you need to, you need to fix yourself, you need to improve yourself, you need to heal yourself, right?
This commit, this constant commitment to make yourself better is the very thing that's keeping you at our arm's length from just realizing how fucking great you are right now. There's nothing to fix. You know, it's just this old programming of, you know, you could call it original sin, you could label it whatever you want to, but it's this old, old programming that there's something wrong with you.
And so the invitation of villain era is like, [00:05:00] Lean the fuck into all of you, including the things that you think are villainous and monstrous and wrong. And let's throw a party in their favor and let's be free.
Eva: Yeah. And, and in the process recognizing that, in that liberation. Cause I, I think what's so terrifying about all of that is, oh, but if I do that, um, something terrible is gonna happen. Yeah. Like, and, and it, it, it can be very fucking uncomfortable. And I think the pushback here is like, actually what if something really fucking wonderful happened?
Yeah. Because you were true to yourself in the most loving, radical way.
Kyley: Absolutely. And yeah, and it is scary. If it wasn't scary, we would've all done it by now. Right. . And so like come to a party where we'll all do it together.
Eva: Yeah. Ah. I'm really also just leaning in, in leaning into this energy, like feeling from you. This energy of fun though, because it's fucking fun when you're like, oh my God, what if I [00:06:00] don't have to care about what everyone thinks? What if I don't have to be liked by everybody? What if I get to just do what feels true to me?
What if I don't have to apologize all the time, or worry all the time? Like, and you're just like, ha, ha, ha, cackling, you know, cackling to your fucking grave. Like
Kyley: That is a thousand percent the energy is cackling. Like, you know how sometimes you set a boundary and, or like you say, like you set a boundary, whatever it might be, and then you spend a ton of time and energy looking over your shoulder and like second guessing yourself, and so you continue to punish yourself for the boundary.
The villain error is about like, oh no, I don't wanna do that. And then just being done with the situation. Right? Like, like the sovereignty of knowing what you want, declaring what you want, and then moving on in your life
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: towards freedom.
Eva: and a Yeah, that sounds incredibly powerful. Like I feel like there's a, a, there's kind of like a bad bitch energy in all of this.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's also interesting, um, which we could dive into be in a, in a [00:07:00] future episode, but is I think also our actual, our true ability to be compassionate shows up when we also have permission to be villa.
Eva: Mm mm-hmm.
Kyley: I think we are actually kinder, actually more generous, actually more heart-centered when we, when it's not a performance and an effort to prove that we are those things.
But it is like when you have permission to say no, then your Yes is more gen generous inherently,
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yes. I know this from personal experience. I know. Yeah. This could be a whole nother episode. Cause this is a big deal. This is like sovereignty essentially. I feel like when it's like, yeah. Okay. So people, what are you waiting for? You got a couple more days until you can sign up. Um, , I know there's a lot of people out there who need this and would benefit from this.
Kyley: and like come and do the fun version of it,
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Woohoo. Cool.
Kyley: your villain error March there. Don't miss out
Eva: [00:08:00] Um,
Kyley: My will love it.
Eva: yes. So I'm doing my second edition of my meditation program for people who are struggling or people whose lives are affected by addiction, by a loved one's addiction, whether it's an ex-partner, a current partner, a parent, a child, a a best friend. Um, the last program was just such a beautiful experience of people being able to, like a lot of women actually coming together to be able to share their experience of like, uh, you know, I feel like I'm constantly in support of the person who's struggling with addiction.
Maybe it's, you know, sometimes. Alcohol and substances. Sometimes it's porn, sometimes it's food. Um, and I'm just like, fucking, I've been caught up in it and I've become like the victim of this and I need support. And so that's very much what this program is about because, um, you know, if you know my story, a lot of my history is that I grew up with, uh, an alcoholic parent.
Um, and I've spent [00:09:00] basically my entire life unlearning a lot of my coping mechanisms. Yeah. And so, um, that's what this program is about, whether or not you have an addict in your life currently, or actually a oftentimes it's like in the past, like maybe you had a parent, um, who, you know, you're raised by someone who struggled with addiction.
And as you probably know then there are a lot of hangups that come up with that. And what I wanna do is invite people to come and do this work together so we can speak about our experiences out loud. Like get rid of a lot of the shame that I think comes from it and the protection of protecting somebody else so that we can speak our own truth and our own experience, all in the container of like having, um, a spiritual practice, which is where the meditation comes in.
And there is this really awesome thing that happens in the way that I teach it if I do say so myself, in which like meditation becomes the perfect tool to actually embody and become and experience the things that we're learning and teaching about in this, in [00:10:00] this course, you know, it's like nervous system work.
It's about learning, like everything is gonna be happening through the body. And meditation is very much about being present with what's happening in the body. So like, if you feel discomfort about setting a boundary or about feeling a certain emotion, if rage comes up, it's like, okay, normally it feels overwhelming when we're doing it ourselves.
Um, but what happens when you actually have a container for that and a tool and a sport system?
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Yeah, I think we get to move things a lot more, a lot. more quickly, and it's a beautiful thing.
Kyley: Yeah. Oh, I just, um, I love the way you're speaking to meditation as like a, a support tool for witnessing, and investigating isn't really the word you're saying, but like, just being curious about all the things that come up. Because I think sometimes, um, if you don't already have a meditation practice, it can just feel like another thing that you have to do and we can bring a lot of [00:11:00] judgment to it.
And if you, you know, have a lot of experience with, um, a loved one's addiction, you run a high risk of having a loud, loud inner critic. So instead of meditation being like a soft place to land, it just becomes another place of
Eva: should, yeah.
Kyley: and judgment. And so I really love, there's like a real soft invitation here about how to be just fucking compassionate with ourselves, which I don't know anyone that.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: and of course to me, like there's no, I think I, I love that I get to weave this work with a spiritual practice. I mean, this is a very spiritual program, there's no doubt about that. So like, if you also just wanna get like a dose of connection with higher power or source or the God within you, I think it adds like a punch of that too.
And also if you were someone who just knows [00:12:00] that like the effects of being in relationship with a loved one who has addiction has caused a lot of hangups in your life, which chances are it has,
Kyley: I was gonna say, even if you aren't totally sure, if you have a close one, a loved one who's an addict, it's had a big impact on you,
Eva: I mean, I think that's part of what this program is, is understanding how this had, has had an effect on you.
So a lot, some people who come to the program might be like, I've been in this work for years. My parents wasn't, was an addict. So it's very obvious to you. And some of them are like, this is kind of new for me. I just, my partner, you know, is struggling with addiction and all of this, like, stuff is coming up, like boundary stuff or feeling like codependent or feeling like I can't trust people, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And you're like, I don't know how to navigate this. You can come into a circle of people who like, got you. Because they're like, I've been there too, and I have the same experience, and you're totally not alone. Which I think is incredibly,
Kyley: Oh, it's just so huge.
Eva: Really validating for this kind of work. Um, so anyway, that is gonna be starting in a couple of weeks.
If you are interested, um, you can just DM me on Instagram, get the deeds, or check out my website@evillyout.com.[00:13:00]
Kyley: Awesome. Sounds good.
Eva: All right. Let's, uh, dive in.
Kyley: Oh my God. I have been actually dying for this update cuz we have been talking, but I actually haven't heard the story of this epic road trip. We've been talking about all sorts of other things along the route. So welcome everybody to Eva Drives halfway across the country and lives to tell the tale.
Eva: Liz. A tale tale, which there are many times where I was like, I wasn't sure because I'm such an anxious driver. There would be many times where I was just sitting in my car being like, oh, I could die this way in a car. I could die this way in a car. Like, someone's gonna hit me. Like, maybe it's gonna, like, someone's just gonna be like, uh, I'll, yeah, just, it could come in various ways.
And so I fucking did it. And not only did I do it, but um, really what I've noticed is like in my research of like. Going on a road trip. I, I had found that there weren't, I don't know that many women who have done road trips by themselves. I think there's, I [00:14:00] mean, you know, there's, there's a lot of who travel by themselves.
But of course, even that's more rare than say, men who travel by themselves. But I think there's, and I've traveled by myself in other countries, but I think there's something about like a road trip. I, like I saw, I saw one other female who was traveling by herself this whole time that I was out there. So I was like, I don't know.
I think there's something there. This idea of like, this was kind of like my e no, this, this, I think I referred to this before. This was my like Cheryl strand like wild moment where like, I'm gonna go do something that feels scary and adventurous on my own and see if I can do it. And I think I feel accomplished in a way.
Yeah. Yeah. And also I am actually a better driver now, which feels huge. Huge. Like there's something that's really nice as a person who's been a nervous driver, um, because I haven't actually had that many years of driving experience. Cause I've lived in cities for a long [00:15:00] time where I didn't have to drive.
Um, where I'm like, oh, I can get on the road and I can be assertive and I can be like a, a badass and, and just like confident. And I don't know. There's something about that that feels very gratifying as
Kyley: Yeah. That's a huge deal, especially as someone who's an anxious driver, to have like a, like a deeper sense of confidence. That's, that's huge.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: So, um, I don't really know where to start. Do you have any questions?
Kyley: Oh my gosh, it's so many questions. Um, okay, let's start with this. What was your favorite part? May well maybe just tell, I think you told listeners, like, tell people just logistically like what the drive entail to anyone who has a geographic mind can
Eva: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: it. And then, um, I think my first question would be like, what's actually your favorite part of it?
Eva: Yeah, good question. Okay. So, um, for background to catch anybody up who you know, hasn't been [00:16:00] tuning in, I, you know, this is all really the aftermath of breaking up with my partner, blowing up my fucking life and deciding that I wanted to go on an adventure. Um, and I was moving from Portland to, I moved from Portland to Austin, and I wanna talk about that too, like, the reason for the move and, and that's like a big piece of it.
Um, but I, I had also like, been traveling in Taiwan. I had just like, just moved outta my, my house and put everything in the storage. So there was just like a ton of fucking transition going on. I'd been living a nomadic life for a couple of months now. And, um, so
Kyley: And also I would add, even when you were in Portland, there was a period where you and Adam had like decided to separate, but were still living together. And very beautifully, I might add. But that itself was transitioned because even though like the pieces were all in the same place, like there was an awareness that the transition had started.
So I feel like for you it's the, it's been [00:17:00] a long time of being in, in process.
Eva: And I think this is like when it's so helpful to have people reflect back to you because like so often we're like, oh yeah, this is like, we just normalize what we're going through and it doesn't seem like such a big deal. But you're right. You had said that to me earlier and I was like, oh shit.
Like, yeah. My life has been up in the air since like the summer, since like June or whatever. And it's now, what month is it? February . Yeah, it's off February. And so
Kyley: eight months of like huge sand shifting under your feet.
Eva: Yes. Yes. And just for context, again, I just wanna explain the reason that I'm sharing all of this is because I think it's so important to model the story of like, I did something that was really fucking hard and really scary and it's been messy, like it's been fucking messy and it hasn't been all like, you know, this perfect redemption story.
And [00:18:00] I just want people to see what it looks like because inevitably if you are fucking listening to this episode, there will be a time in your life whether you like it or not, but shit's gonna blow up. And sometimes it's gonna be by choice because you're like, I need to do this thing that feels true to myself and so I need to like quit my job or go back to school or break up with my partner or whatever.
Or, or, and sometimes it's not
Kyley: or have a kid
Eva: or have a kid. Yeah. That'll blow up your life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And sometimes it's gonna like not be by choice cuz it's something that's just happened, you know, to you I suppose. And well never really happens to you. You could always argue that it happens for you.
Um. and I wanna just talk about what that middle process looks like, you know, because I knew it was gonna be hard and I knew it was gonna be scary, and I'm like, oh, this is it. This is the thing that I was afraid of. Like these, these hard parts in the middle are the parts that I was really afraid of. And also I survived to tell the tale.
So, yay.
Kyley: Also, it's so [00:19:00] funny how like we do this, I think all the time. We're like, I know it's gonna be hard, and we, I'm gonna, I at least do this, where I'm like, I know it's gonna be hard and it's okay that it's gonna be, and I like, think that I'm making all this space for the me who's like, it's gonna, it's, you know, it's okay if you fall apart.
And then in the midst of everything falling apart, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna die here in this place where everything
Eva: yes. That's exactly what, yes. Okay. Nail, uh, nail or what is it? You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly the thing that my friend Victoria was saying to me the other day. Um, who Future EPIs, future guest of on this, on this podcast, but it's like, I, there have been moments where I'm like, Ugh, I did the right thing.
I'm following my heart. I'm living in integrity with myself. Why does it feel so fucking shitty ? Because you think it's gonna feel like this really like this Instagramable movie montage thing where everything's like, ah, I've come out and it's like, gorgeous. But the truth is, [00:20:00] I think, you know, the theme of like death and rebirth has just come up a lot is that
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: if you want to be reborn and experience the new version of you, you have to experience death.
And sometimes death feels like ass
Kyley: right?
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Especially I think when, I think, especially when we think we, like we have to control it or the part of us shows up, that's like, can't help but try to be like, I'm gonna protect you from this terrible feeling by being a control freak. And then it's like, oh, and now this is your second arrow metaphor.
And then it's hard cuz it's hard. And then it's also hard cuz you're being control. judge, self judgmental, control freak about the hard
Eva: yes. So I wanted to spend a moment talking about grief in a bit. Cause I think that was one of my main themes from this like road trip. Um, but yeah, to go back. Okay, so I think that's [00:21:00] the, you know, I talk about how it's been like hard and, and yes, there's been that judgment of it, like being hard as well.
And I think what happens, what's happening is like, it's not all hard, it's just that I keep turning corners. So, in our last Ky Eileen Eva episode. I think what happened was, like, I had just come out of like, I had just come back from Taiwan and I had processed a lot of grief, and so prior to that I was just like, in grief, grief, grief, grief, grief.
And it was like really heavy. And then I turned a corner. I really do feel like I came back from Taiwan and I was like, okay. Like I was like, I'm on the up and up and I was, and haha, of course though, the thing is there's gonna be, what I realized is, oh, there's gonna be a million fucking corners to turn because then I like went onto this.
Then I got on this road trip and it was like, I thought it was just gonna be like, oh, so adventurous and like, like, I'm gonna like Instagram the whole thing and, and share these beautiful pictures of all these like amazing places that I went to. And I realized, oh, but I was again in a different processing something else.
And then,
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: and, and a lot of that was brief too, which I'm gonna talk about more. [00:22:00] And I was like, oh, is it gonna be this way forever? And then what happened was, I turned yet under the corner on that road trip. So by the end of the road trip I had come around again and I was like, oh, that was another thing that I processed.
And so then I get to Austin thinking it's gonna be like, oh my God, I'm finally here and it's perfect and I'm so excited to land somewhere and like this is where it all starts. And of course that's, it's happened yet again. So I got to Austin and it was like really difficult when I first got here. And then I yet turned another corner
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: of like, I think, you know, we've talked about this before. I keep thinking I'm gonna like arrive at a final destination. And I think the more I hold on to that being a necessity, the more I'm going to suffer.
Kyley: Oh yeah,
Eva: instead just realizing that like it's, it's all just one big blobby blur,
Kyley: yeah. Or like a, like I'm [00:23:00] thinking of the metaphor of a dance, right? It's like, uh, I It's funny you're speaking to that cuz I, that has been a big reoccurring, I don't know, reminder from the universe lately is like, there's nowhere to arrive. It doesn't exist. And.
Eva: Yeah. And also maybe like I'm already here.
Kyley: Yes. Because if there's nowhere to arrive, then you are already, I was talking about this with a client about her business the other day. It was like, yeah, you have big ambitious goals and also this is it. You've made it. Right? Like, and how do you let both of those, like both of those co Oh, I could talk about this, this particular singular thing for a million.
Because it's
Eva: go off. Cuz like I would love some insight here
Kyley: I mean, I don't know that I have insight because it feels really like an edge for me. But I can feel, I can, I can feel how much my longing to get somewhere is the thing that's keeping me from anywhere.
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: You know? It's like I can't settle and enjoy [00:24:00] this cuz there's this drive to be like, get there, get there, get there.
But it doesn't, like I was, this morning I was sitting, drinking my tea and I was thinking like, uh, you know, birdie was playing. Nick and Desi were still sleeping. I was drinking my tea and I was just thinking like, this is it like, , this is, this is it. And also, I can't put really put it into words, but it's like, and also this like drive to be somewhere else that I think is somehow better is the thing that's keeping me from being able to appreciate this.
And at the same time, I am really hungry and ambitious and have big wants. And
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: I don't think I have anything insightful. I just think
Eva: Well, I think, yeah, I think the conversation's like, how do you balance those two? Because I will say, have you ever actually, have you ever gotten to a place where you're like, where you're like, oh wait, I actually have arrived. Meaning, meaning like, oh, I finally, I, I actually got this thing and it did actually give me everything that I wanted and more, because I [00:25:00] think I, I
Kyley: Oh, you had that?
Eva: So I think there is, there is actually a kind of arrival, but it's just not the end
Kyley: yeah, yeah. Because then you turn another corner.
Eva: Yeah. Cause then there's the really, like the end of something is just the beginning of something else. like, I mean, yeah. The end of something means that you started your son, sorry. Certainly, so you arrive, but once you arrive, you've only arrived, then you stopped like, like live out the rest of like, what happens after that?
Kyley: Yeah, yeah. So maybe that, that's actually very helpful. So that's like, uh, cause that's, it's like this is, this is its own arrival right now. And also you can relish a few other Yeah, there's something, there's something really nice there. I don't know.
Eva: because I
Kyley: And the con Yeah, go ahead.
Eva: say, I do think for me that I have specific goals and there are certain things that I really want right now in my life. And I think that there will be moments where I'm like, oh, I've achieved, or I am experiencing what I came here to experience. And to me that's like the [00:26:00] arrival that I'm kind of talking about.
Like I, I want, because I think it's really important to say that, like, to say that this isn't all just the bypassing, like there are moments where we can celebrate having attained something or achieved something and experiencing things on something that we really want.
Kyley: Yeah. Uh, yes. Um, okay, so I could go down this rabbit hole, but I wanted to ask more
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Right, right. Sorry. Yes.
Kyley: oh, no, don't apologize. So I'm ac you mentioned grief a couple times and I actually am curious to know how, I think, how the grief felt different when you were on your road trip. Because my sense when we were at, in Taiwan was like, some of the grief was like, what is this thing that I'm feeling?
Oh, it was like identifying it as grief was like its own kind of part of the journey. And correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense is that the, the grief of this road trip, my sense is that it was like more of the [00:27:00] like in your face, loud will not be ignored, kind. Is that true?
Eva: Um,
Kyley: It seems like there was an intensity to what you emotionally
Eva: there, there was, I should add, cause I think it did play a big role in this, is that I got my period in the middle of my road trip, which
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: some listeners may know. I've talked about it before. Like that time is always a very intense time for me. Um, I feel like I go into a vortex. I experience everything and I feel everything so fucking deeply.
And it's good cause I think it helps me process some shit. And then I come out of it, I'm like, whoa. Like I look back and I'm like, what just happened? I don't, I don't even know.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: Um, and honestly, so I, my first stop was like, just to give people context of like the amazing things that I saw too. Um, I went to the redwoods in northern California.
Oh. And then I went to this hot spring place Oh, in, in, I don't even wanna tell people where it is [00:28:00] because it's so untouched by like consumerism
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: I don't wanna be that person who like ruins it. But I met my friend Jane there and it's like this naked hot spring place and I was like, I can't even believe this place fucking exists.
It's like literally run by hippies, , and they, you just, it's beautiful and totally off the map. And. Yeah. There's like no advertising. You can just tell. It's like pristine. It's like, I don't know how to describe. It's just this vibe of like, it doesn't feel like they're doing it for the money of running this like, living situation for people.
And I'm like, oh yeah, this is like what I wanna see more of like people who are actually doing things
Kyley: hmm.
Eva: in a, in their own way. Um, so that was all good. I would actually say it didn't get bad until there was a part where it was really bad, [00:29:00] where, uh, I feel like there was an, there was like a before Phoenix and then an after Phoenix.
So I got, got to Phoenix. Phoenix was like the middle point of my journey. And so I think a lot part, a lot of what caused the intensity was that I met up with Adam because we're really trying to do this thing where we can continue to be friends. And I think we're actually doing a very good job and I'm very proud of ourselves.
But that brought. a lot of rage actually. Like a lot of fucking rage. Cause I re, I think I've been in this place where I try to be positive about everything and I'm like, oh, like we've done such a good job splitting up and, and blah, blah, blah. And it has been really wonderful. But that I had, I didn't make any space for like, the anger that I felt
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: and, and I was on my period, which was again, like the funny thing is I think that was necessary.
I kept trying to be like, yeah, I kept trying to be like, oh, I don't want your period to come. But I think it actually helped me. Cause I think, you know, we've talked about this. I have, I'm really good with sadness. Like, no problem, I'm really good with like me, but like rage is [00:30:00] something that I think can be harder for me to tap into sometimes.
And so it kind of allowed me to be like, oh, I'm just really fucking pissed about this loss and I'm pissed that things didn't go according to my plan. And I'm pissed that, um, Yeah. A lot of it was like things didn't go according to my plan,
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: mad about it.
Kyley: Oh my God, I have such a sense. It's funny cuz even before you said that I had, I saw your period like as your ally, and then there was like the next word done of your mind. So I do it when I'm super
Eva: Oh yeah,
Kyley: But yeah, it, it does really does feel like, like you like almost needing this like intense experience in order to experience the rage.
Because otherwise it would've been easy to, like you would've had other ways of kinda like slipping out it and around it. And then the combination of your period, this road trip seeing at a midway through was like, no, no. Like, it's like seeing you just [00:31:00] like put in the pot of. This is for you, like sit in
Eva: yes, yes.
Kyley: Um, and that feeling like, now we can say this cuz you're moved through some of it, but it's like that being a fucking gift. Cuz otherwise that would just keep simmering inside of you and you being like, oh, no, no, because that's what we do. That's what we all
Eva: Yes. That's like, I think exactly what it felt like. I felt like a huge fucking release that I wouldn't have been able to like tap into essentially. And I felt like something, like, I literally felt like I shed something from my body. Like it, like it was like this, not like a, you know, like I, not a demonn, but what do you call it when someone's like taking over your body and then they like, leave you
Kyley: Like an entity.
Eva: Yeah. Like an entity that, that
Kyley: Love this.
Eva: like released me and like at me, like a Ghostbusters movie or
Kyley: that's exactly what I'm seeing. This like screw, like the, this like, yeah. Yeah. It's a really great image. Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: and oh, you know what? It was also, um, . [00:32:00] So I had dinner with his family, which was really, really nice and I'm glad that we got to do that. But also there was another, that's another example of grief and loss because I was like, I'm so sad that I'm losing your family because like, I like your family a lot and that's like really nice.
But, um, uh, what else is I gonna say? Oh, oh, and another huge piece of be, okay, so this is a PSA that I wanna give to everybody cuz this has been a big learning moment for me
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Eva: and very humbling is just like, maybe other people don't have this problem. Maybe this is unique to me, but I was gonna say like, don't be a snob about where you live or where you think that you should live.
Because what I experienced when I went back to Phoenix was I was like, oh my God, I fucking love it here. I feel like you're this like scorned lover. You're like, you're like the, the, the guy, the guy who. this is an example. This is never actually happened to me in real life, but it really felt like a relationship where there's this guy who treated me [00:33:00] really well and I was like, oh, but like I don't know if I really like you.
And then I broke up with him and then months later I was like pining for him. And I was like, oh my God, I totally took you for granted. I didn't see how wonderful you were. I totally want you back and now I can't have you back. So I say that because that's how I feel about my relationship with Phoenix, that I lived there for a while.
I was a total snob about it. Cause I had just been coming from like New York and Taipei, these like really awesome cities. And I was like my, you know, I had my New York friend make fun of me about like, oh, I can't imagine you living in some second tier city. And I remember when I got to Phoenix, so the Phoenix is not great at the city.
It's like a lot of strip malls, a lot of like white girls and Lulu lemon pants. Like that's, that's the Phoenix vibe. It is like ASU student hot blonde chicks. Who are all wearing like Lululemon, head to toe But the truth is, I got there and I was like, oh, I really fucking miss it here. Like, I, I'm so sad. I didn't appreciate you while I had you. I miss the fucking cactus. [00:34:00] Like the desert out
Kyley: hmm.
Eva: is where I just feel the most like grounded and yeah, it just, it really felt like grief of a place too.
Kyley: If I can offer, my sense of you when you were living in Phoenix was that it was a place you really loved.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Like, I felt, I, I don't feel like you maybe were, that you didn't appreciate it, but I feel like when you were there, you talked about like the desert that you, the like incredible park that you could walk to and your love of the desert and you're like, you know, surprised and delight at the way this city revealed itself to you.
So, um, I hear you on, on the loss of place, but if it's any comfort, I feel like you, my, my impression was you ex you appreciated it while you were there.
Eva: I did appreciate it, but okay, so I've had so many people say that to me. They're like, essentially what people have said to me is like, why did you leave there? You seemed really happy when you were there. And I don't think I knew how happy I was when I was there, cuz [00:35:00] I did love it. But the reason we left and moved to Portland in the first place is cuz we were both like, oh we don't really wanna be here.
We had a very strong aversion to being like Arizonans like living in Phoenix forever because, because the reason we moved, they had, if I hadn't really known how happy I was there, I wouldn't have moved to Portland be, but the idea was like Portland was a cooler city. It was more liberal.
Kyley: hmm. Um.
Eva: politically things in Arizona were a really fucking messy, it was like era of Trump and yeah, I was like, I wanna live in a liberal city.
Um, that has like more going on cuz again, Phoenix doesn't really have a lot going
Kyley: Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Eva: So I, I, it was like, I couldn't let myself really, um, admit how much I loved
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: I feel like, what I mean when I say it's like a lover who I like tossed aside and didn't appreciate because I, I actually like, loved you, but I was too stuck in what I thought would [00:36:00] be better or cooler, what I should be doing.
And so I left
Kyley: Okay. So the, I have this giant boulder in my, I, my whole town in like, a lot of this regions like built on granite. Um, and there's a giant, giant boulder in my backyard that my kids climb. Uh, and as you're speaking this, I can feel the rocks. Like I got like tears in my eyes. I could feel my rocks being. . Hmm.
This is interesting information,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: like this, because I do have a real restlessness like this, like real resistance to putting down roots even though we own our home. Like there's very much this part of me that's like, I live 25 minutes from the town I grew up in. That was never my intention. It is. Or the town that I live in is incredibly suburban.
Like there is not cool shit here. You know, there's like a thousand Dunking Donuts,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and, um, uh,
Eva: have really great pumpkin muffins though. Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: good to know. That's good to know. Um, but [00:37:00] like, yeah, it, it is, it is very suburban and um, historically this is a very blue collar town, which is something in a lot of ways I like, but it also means that there aren't a lot of, like, there's not a lot of like woodiness to it, even though there are other nearby towns that are very woodsy.
So it's like you're driving and you're driving by like industrial. Anyway, I have. , a lot of basically loathing to be like, this is not where I live. This is not where I'm from. And also I can feel the rocks being like, but also it is.
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yes. Yes. And I like, I think, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people could relate to this conversation. Some people might not be able to, but there's a lot of us who are like re resist. Like, I hear this all the time, like people who don't wanna move closer to home because they spend so much of their youth trying to get away from home.
And then all of a sudden they're like, wait, am I actually gonna end up in the same ho hometown or am I gonna end up living this like suburban life that I always thought in my twenties I was too [00:38:00] cool for? You know? And
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: but, and you like, don't let yourself just fucking have what you want because you have some idea of what it should be or how you were when you were younger.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Or Glennon Doyle talks about how, like, she lives in Florida and people are like, why? And she's like, I, because I got Lyme disease and I wanted to live by the beach. and she's like, I almost had to die just to be able to live where I wanted without shame or like embarrassment.
Kyley: Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Just a brief aside, but there's this hilarious woman on TikTok who does I impersonations of Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach podcast and it is my favorite thing in the world.
Eva: You have to tag me next time
Kyley: I will have to send it to you if anybody else knows. I don't even know who this woman is cuz it just like shows up randomly.
But it is such a funny characterization of the two of them that whether you love them or hate them, you will think this is a great impersonation.
Eva: God, that's awesome. That's awesome. I want someone to do an impersonation of us, [00:39:00] so if someone has a free time , tag us.
Kyley: Lots of swearing and cackling, I think. Uh, yeah. Um, okay. Uh, I see I have totally, and I also can see how this, this, this is the midpoint, which again, great job, giant God, you setting this up as obviously the midpoint, that would be like cascade, everything of like, ugh. I mean, it's something, it's almost poetic if it weren't
So brutal. You have experienced, so you drive away from Phoenix full of rage and grief.
Eva: Well, having processed the raging beef, because essentially like , I like, like Adam and I had like some really big conversations that like we're actually also so fucking beautiful that we couldn't have had when we were still together. So it was like just a I, I, I needed, I honestly feel like I needed to see him in order to have this release and I
Kyley: mm.
Eva: that, so, [00:40:00] but I will say,
So that was like there, I feel like there was before Phoenix and after Phoenix and, and as I was like leaving, I could just feel it. I don't know. It was literally a physical sensation where I was like, oh my God, I feel lighter. And I was like, I was like so happy to be on the road. And that was when I was starting to feel really confident on the road.
And I was driving through the desert and I was like, I'm fucking freeing. I rolled down my, my, my windows. Ooh, this. I also smoked cigarettes on this road trip because that's something that I actually love. I dunno if you've heard me talk about this before. Do you know that I actually love smoking cigarettes?
Kyley: I, I don't think I somehow, I either intuitively knew this or you've mentioned it and my brain forgot it because this doesn't, somehow doesn't surprise
Eva: Yeah. So I feel very fortunate because I know this isn't most people's case, but like I've been able to pick up cigarettes and then like I can just drop them whenever I want to. So that's why I like, allow myself to go there, cuz I do think it's a terribly nasty habit, but I will never, not. Smoking a fucking cigarette with my windows down in my [00:41:00] car.
Like, music up real, real high. Like
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: it's just the best. Um, so yeah, and I just, and then I feel like after all of that, then my road trip was like really beautiful. And I was like, oh, I get it, I get it. I understand why people go on road trips. Like, this is such an amazing way to see the country and the land.
The earth is fucking bonkers. Y'all like, like Mother Nature and, and Gaia is just like, ha ha ha. Like, I'm out here playing and creating all this shit. Look at how cool I am. You don't really need entertainment. Like, just come and play with me. I'm here for you to be played
Kyley: mm
Eva: Cuz there's just, I seriously feel like, I wanna say America, but then I had this whole big realization of like, this isn't just America, this is the whole world.
The whole fucking world, planet Earth is gorgeous and a, a, you know, a miracle to be enjoyed and. It's been be bestowed upon us and there's just like all this crazy shit to see and [00:42:00] it really makes me feel like God just has an amazing sense of humor and is also very trippy because the things that exist out there are just wild.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Like trees are a thousand years old. Deserts of white sand caves. I went to Carlsbad Caverns, it's like this fucking cave that you go into. Just like all these like stalagmites. And I'm just like, there's so much that exists out there. I understand why people like live this way and I think it's really left me hungry for more cuz there's just so much more I wanted to see like New Mexico blew my fucking mind.
Kyley: Oh my God. I love New
Eva: Oh my God. Just I really wanna go back there and like spend some quality time there. And I was just like, it made me realize like there's just this, and that's what travel is in general, I guess. Just like this untapped. Everything here for you to like, just enjoy and be humbled by.[00:43:00]
Kyley: This might sound weird, but, um, I think I've made peace with this, but for a while, and I think we've even talked about this in the podcast for a while, books made me really aware of my own mortality because I was so aware of all the books that I want to read. And I was like, I'll like the, like more keep coming out.
Like I'll never write, like in a good year, I read 50 books in a year. Like I'll never be able to read the books that I like. The to-do the to read list will always be longer than my life. And that me made me like really aware of my own mortality. And I feel similarly around travel, there's like a. There's a, there's sometimes this sense of grief that comes up because I'm like, there's never a way for me to actually go and see all the things that I would like to see.
They'll, it'll forever be more than what I can sink into and experience. And I don't know, there's something really poetic in that, but it also can, [00:44:00] I don't know, it brings up a real like grief for me sometimes of just mortality.
Eva: Yeah. I mean, I don't wanna take anything away. Cause I do think that there's something really beautiful in that, and I think there's medicine in that as well. But I will offer that. I have the same feeling of like, I'm never gonna be able to like experience it all, see it all, read it all, eat it all.
But to me, I find that to be like such a fucking relief because I'm like, I'm so ravenous and hungry and that I'm just like, if I could blow through it all, I would have nothing left. And then I'd be so fucking bored,
Kyley: Hmm.
Eva: thank God. Because it means that there's always kind of something to look forward to.
It means that I will never finish it. Like I will never finish at all and I don't.
Kyley: That doesn't, that's not the point.
Eva: Yeah. And also I don't have to worry because I feel like I, I mean, it does make me greedy because that's, I do mean it. Like, when I'm greedy, I'm like, I was on this road trip and I was like, but I also wanna stop here and I wanna stop here.
I'm [00:45:00] like, I wanna try and pack it all and I wanna do all these things. Um, but, and yeah, I understand. I do understand the, like, grief of it cuz it's like, you're never gonna be able to see it all. But I just find that that really,
Kyley: That's also the permission.
Eva: yeah. I find that like a relief, like, I'm relieved by that.
Kyley: And I should say the grief is not like, um, it's not a crushing grief, it's just if I pay attention, it's, I mean, I also find parenting par I, I think people can talk about, Really, I've never heard anyone talk about this, although they must somewhere. But like to me, parenthood is also a constant study in grief because every day your kid, like, like cons.
It's just a constant study in like clothes that don't fit, books that you don't read, like
Eva: and at the end of a chapter of some
Kyley: It's every day is at the, is the end of something. And um, and also there's ends that you don't know when they'll be right. Like, I won't know the last time that Desi will climb into my bed to sleep with me.
And even as I'm like, oh my God, you don't fit. Like, I'm also [00:46:00] like, I mean this, people talk about it all the time, but, but, um, I'm also like, need to like cherish this. Anyway, I just, I think that there is, there's a constant threat of grief in parenting. I mean, maybe we're really speaking to, maybe we're just like, there's a constant thread to live as to
Eva: to live. Yeah. Yes. Grief. Well,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: actually, which I think brings me to grief. Um, I won't though are they as main thing that I wanna say about that. It was a, as as I was on this road trip, I was listening to the patron saint of divorces, , Liz Gilbert, of breakup, breakups and divorces, and I think, oh God, yes.
I think I've talked about that. I feel like I've just become such, such a cliche, cuz I was like, I never read, eat, pray, love, and I was like, Ugh, just sounds dumb and stupid, even though I love Liz Gilbert. But of course, since going through a big breakup and an upheaval of life, that's just been like such a comforting book for me. [00:47:00] But she just has this really beautiful quote about like, um, how grief is not something to do well, but it's just meant to be survived.
Kyley: Oh,
Eva: like you cannot handle. Like, and and I know, and then that's where I noticed I was actually trying to do grief really well. I was trying to do it well. I was trying to be like, oh, hey look, I'm a coach and I have all these tools and I'm skillful and I know how to be with my emotions.
Let me like ride this gracefully. And as and, and as I'm like listening to this podcast and sobbing like ugly sobbing and driving and like tissues all over the place, I'm like, oh, right. Like I, the only thing I can do is survive this. And that was just such a, I think this is a good lesson for me in grief, in, in, in like other grief that will inevitably come up like death of loved ones.
It's like it's, I feel like this is practice. It's like all you can ever do is just survive it and [00:48:00] time let time do its thing in where it passes, but there's no controlling it. And that was actually really helpful
Kyley: And that our efforts to do it well are, are actually con like. Are actually a way of pushing it away, right? Like grief is just to be survived. And also, which I also think you could also say just to be experienced, there is no, there's no good or bad version of grieving. It's just how you're fucking experiencing it.
And so
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: and so if, yeah, go
Eva: No. Well, I'm saying this speaks to what you were saying earlier, cuz you were like, oh, what happens is we feel grief, but then we like ju we have the second arrow on top. We judge ourselves for like, it should be this way or shouldn't be this way. And I think that's, yeah, that's
Kyley: Or we try to control, if I'm not judging, then I'm trying to control . Those are the two modes of like ways that I arm myself, you know, I'm either judging or I'm trying to [00:49:00] control of like, which is also I think judgment, but it's like I'm trying to like cuepoint, like grieve well, and, um, and it's, I don't know.
It's fucking, it's, it's not actually doesn't work.
Eva: Yeah. And part of that might be that you are just in total control mode, right? Like you're part of grief might be like, let me try and control my grief and like try and do it. Do it well and yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Kyley: Can I add like a, can I wear like a practical tip that's keeps bumping into my mind? Okay. So I think a lot of us, maybe especially women, but I say that maybe just cuz that's my experience in the world, struggle to experience rage. Like we might know it's there, but it can be, you spoke about being it hard to access and I think that's actually really true for a lot of us.
Um, and someone gave me this tip once and it has been some of the best medicine ever when I have like known, like I've had some awareness that there's rage, but I haven't been able to feel it, which is to go to [00:50:00] water, preferably on a shitty, rainy day where there won't be people around and find the biggest rocks that you can find and throw them into the water. Hard as you can and just like make noises and like holler, grunt, yell, like whatever you are able to do. Um, and like the bigger the rock, the better, the more uncomfortable and hard it is to lift, the better, um, the shitier, the weather, the better. Um, and just fucking scream. And you will like, you'll, you'll, you'll break open.
That thing that I, every time I've done this, one time I did it and I was like, went into the ocean in the rain,
Eva: I would say, how many times have you done this? Cause that sounds amazing.
Kyley: It's a, it is a,
Eva: wild af, which
Kyley: Yeah, the first time I did it, was like an I impulse, it was like, almost like, basically like an impulse thing. And I was like, it's a [00:51:00] shitty, shitty, rainy day. And I had knew I had all this anger, but I couldn't feel it.
And I was like throwing these rocks in the water. And I like went into the ocean in jeans and I was kicking the ocean. I hit the, I hit the water so hard, I bruised my hand
Eva: yeah.
Kyley: days and I crack. I like, I could feel, I could like feel, even now, this like cracking open. And I, every time I've done this I end up like screaming and crying. Like I ultimately end up crying, which is the thing that like, um, but it's, but it's the crying that is tied to rage, not, yeah. You know, it's like, anyways, if it is the best medicine that I have found, if you are someone who doesn't know how or where to access their, their rage, but they know that it's in there.
So I offer
Eva: Wait, that's amazing. I love this. I live by a creek now with a lot of rocks by it, so
Kyley: my God. I can't wait for, I can't wait for the update.
Eva: Yes. I will say, okay, so [00:52:00] two things. First, a question and then observation. The question is, so when you do this, you, it's like you're not, are you already feeling rageful in the moment or it's like you're not actually, so it allows you to get, feel rageful and
Kyley: yeah, it's specifically, I mean, if you are feeling rageful, then great have at it, but, but it specifically has been helpful for me in moments where like, I intellectually know that there's some anger, but I can't actually fall into it or feel it. Like it totally is just a, I'm probably angry about this.
It would make sense, but I can't feel it. And so it's a way of like creating the experience
Eva: Oh, okay.
Kyley: that my mind is kind of buffering to protect me from.
Eva: I love this. I love it very much. Thank you for offering that to me and all of our listeners. And the observation is, which is very interesting. It tells me a lot about why I keep my bay my rage at bay, but I'm like, oh, but like this sounds really, I already have scary because I'm just gonna look like a crazy lady.
Kyley: That's why the shitty weather's helpful because then there aren't people around. Yeah.
Eva: But I'm [00:53:00] also like, but I think, but I also think like, that's the thing, I'm like, I think what it kind, what I'm kind of feeling is like, oh, but I don't wanna be that racial because I don't want people to think I'm hysterical, which is like the thing that PE people that women get so often, right?
It's like, oh my God, you're being crazy. You're being hysterical. And I'm like, all right. Like, you know, really the entering your villain air is about, yeah, let me be fucking hysterical.
Kyley: Yeah. And maybe you have fucking reason to be hysterical. You know? Like maybe you have reason to be hysterical. Um, and to stop being so buttoned up and con in control all the
Eva: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: So anyway, um, I didn't, I don't even think I answered your original question, which is like, what
Kyley: that's okay. It was, I just was trying to get us started.
Eva: Well, yes, but I do wanna say, just to sum it all up, cause I won't go into like every single detail of every place that I went. I did love being at White Sands National Park, which I will post pictures of on my Instagram at some point.
[00:54:00] And, um, oh yeah. I ended up staying in this amazing, very bougie out year. It was very much glamping and, oh my god, Kylie. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So this was very much intentional. My last stay in Martha, Texas, I, I was like this, I knew it was gonna be a last day, so I planned, I like splurge on this really nice thing and I stayed in this year and I also. Had ordered this like bath in a, I don't know what you call it, but it was like a wood-fired bath outside underneath the fucking stars of Texas, this wide open sky in the middle of the night. And it was exactly what I wanted. I knew that I wanted to end like with water looking up at the sky in relaxation and like pampering myself.
And it was definitely one of those like magical moments where I'm just like, I'm so grateful to people who create experiences like this for people Um, and uh, there's something else I wanted to say [00:55:00] about that. Uh, yeah, anyway, that was definitely very memorable and um, sometimes you just gotta like treat yourself
Kyley: Yeah. Oh, I love, yeah. I love, love, love. love this moment for you. Yeah, go
Eva: know what I was gonna say is that, It's just so clear to me now that I love the desert more than I love the forest, which, and one of the big reasons is because I like the sky. Like I need to be able to see the wide open sky. And I like it when it looks blue and the forest is amazing and I feel like saying this is somewhat controversial because you know, like I'm, the forest is like this magical place and people are like, oh, how can you like not love the forest?
It's not that I don't love the forest, but I do really believe that places have a certain effect on the body. And I just, for me it's the desert. I just, it's I, it's just very clear to me now I will take a dry brown desert with some C dye [00:56:00] and some birds and some pox over like tall trees any day
Kyley: Uh, Nick is the exact same way. I think I've, yes, yes. And I watch him, I, I witnessed him when he was in, when he, he was in high school. His art projects were always of the desert, even though he'd never been to the desert,
Eva: Wow.
Kyley: which is really cool. And, um,
Eva: That's very cool that you can like, know that about yourself or like have that expressed in yourself. Cause I didn't know that about myself.
Kyley: I don't think he, like, I, it just, there's something always that like caught his, like, that I think caught his like, kind of romantic attention. And then we, I, we went on a, a couple years ago we went to Sedona, Arizona,
Eva: Yeah. Where we met
Kyley: place. Yes. Oh my God. That's right. Duh. That was the one time we've been in person together.
Um, uh, this, you know, up to date, my 2023 goal, our 2023 goal is that we get to be in in person at some point. Um, but, uh, he, we had to do a lot of driving cuz we flew in and out of Vegas for this trip. And I just watched [00:57:00] this kind of like joy and Settledness that came over him as we were like this, like long, long drive through what was without him.
I think I would've been like,
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: About the, about the landscape. And he was just like, so delighted and excited by it. I was really grateful because then I saw it through his eyes, you know? Um, and I don't think, I don't think I would totally understand the, oops. I think some of them, I think the, I know the magic of the desert would be lost on me without, and like, similarly, we went to Joshua Tree a couple of times, which is a, have you been to
Eva: yeah. I love Joshua Tree. Yeah.
Kyley: so
Eva: It's so trippy and so, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and seeing again, like, I don't think anyone would go to Joshua Tree and not think it's amazing. But I could also, it was another moment of like seeing it through his eyes being an extra layer of, of, of magic. And for me, it's the ocean. That's, that's that. Like if I have, if I'm away from the ocean for too long, I always remember once I went to the ocean, we went to Puerto [00:58:00] Rico when I was in graduate school and I basically hadn't been to the ocean for years, even though I lived in Boston, but the harbor was not the same thing.
And um, I got to the ocean in the middle of the night. as we were going to dinner anyways, I could just hear it. I couldn't even really see it cause it was pitch black and I just started sobbing,
Eva: Oh my
Kyley: like out of nowhere, just like sobbing, like all of his extended family behind me. And I was like, this is slow
Eva: Yeah. It's like, how can we deny that we're not connected to the earth? Do you know what I mean? Like, it just has this effect on us. And I think it's so cool. We're very, I think if you're, if you're fortunate enough, you're, if you're fortunate enough, you'll get to know the land that feels like home to you.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. And it's
Kyley: a little tricky being, uh, ocean person, married to a desert person. We haven't quite figured that
Eva: Well, you could be in la you've got both in la
Kyley: that's true.
Eva: so maybe, yeah. Anyway, that's,
Kyley: Although I gotta confess as a New Englander, like you're a Pacific. Ocean's fucking cold.
Eva: yeah, that's
Kyley: [00:59:00] We have the Gulf Stream. I can swim without a freaking wetsuit, so I'm a little,
Eva: That's true. I just kind of suck it up. I get Yes, but you're right. If you've been spoiled by like warm waters.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Eva: Um, yeah, so I, you know, I, I'm in Austin. I think we can, we can table that conversation for another time. It's episodes already. What, almost two hours . But
Kyley: typical fashion.
Eva: just to say, just to say, this is, yet I got to Austin and I was like, okay, good.
Like that's the end and I'm here and it's done. And like, and I've only since realized Nope. It's just another beginning. And so we'll say that for another episode. Cause I think there's a lot to say about that. But a bit of a preview is that, um, I am living in an Airstream trailer on my friend's land. It is beautiful fucking land.
And it's everything that I wanted because I wanted to be closer to the earth without being far away from the [01:00:00] city.
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: I. that has been nice. Like that I can, that I can just pick up my life and go, that I can work remotely, that I can try this out for a couple of months. Cuz the idea is it's just a four month trial. I think there's a lot to be said about what this experience is gonna bring because, um, it, it like living in an Airstream trailer, dude, , oh my God, I'm a bougie bitch. I am a bougie bitch. So this is just another way in which I am just trying to take myself further into experimenting with something that feels important to me, but also I, you know, I wanna, maybe I've idealized it, maybe I'm gonna fucking hate it.
And I realize like, nope, like this isn't for me.
Kyley: yeah. What better way to find out what you actually want though, by like going and trying a bunch of things.
Eva: I know. I feel like for me, that's the only way I know how to do it.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: for better or worse,
Kyley: yeah, yeah. Oh, um, I am very excited of the, like [01:01:00] unfurling of you and Austin and all that. It has. Teach us and buy extension, teach you, and by extension the rest of us.
Eva: Yeah, me too. I can't wait to share. I do think I'll be able to tap into my wild woman ways. I mean, I've just been peeing in the backyard. That's like, I pee
Kyley: isn't that so much fun? Yeah.
Eva: Except I've never done that before. I've never lived in a place where I would just pee in the backyard. You gotta understand city girl here.
Kyley: I know. I forget.
Eva: City girl. So wait, is this a
Kyley: forget how thoroughly. Yeah, right LA You're not exactly
Eva: well you're like in suburban? I don't know, maybe it's also just like my parents would've never allowed for that. Um,
Kyley: My mom is like a true wild woman like my mom.
Eva: Yeah. Okay. See, so this is what I'm saying, like this is the kind of stuff that is I love hearing about other people's experiences. Cause I'm like, oh yeah, it's just all new to me.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. Like my mom's the kind of mom who would be like, we'd be out somewhere, like would be like out on a walk or like at a playground or we would've to pee and she'd be like, okay, well go in the woods. Like, I'm not leaving here. We're here. Go pee
Eva: Yeah,
Kyley: whereas I'd think a lot of, yeah.
Eva: [01:02:00] That makes, but like, oh, cuz you had woods to pee in.
Kyley: Yes, exactly. Yes. Um, and, but I have no other people growing up in very same situation, and their parents would be like, okay, we gotta go. We gotta my mom be like, just go fucking pee. Bye. You know,
Eva: Smart woman. Wait, but do you pee in your own backyard?
Kyley: um, my backyard is very small. I, I have, I have before, but it, I, it's, it's somehow private, but also very small.
And the giant rock that I mentioned is so giant that it's like an, it's almost, it's like the size of a house and there is a house on top of it. So I have a very private backyard, but I do have one side of neighbors that can basically peer down into my backyard,
Eva: I have to like, I'm really curious what this boulder looks like. It actually sounds very fucking cool.
Kyley: Oh, it's very cool. I
Eva: I've never heard you, I've never heard you mention it before.
Kyley: Oh yeah. It's, it's very cool. Um, Yeah, so my backyard is basically like a fence on either side. It's very little, but it's like [01:03:00] layered and it's like very, the first time I saw it, I was like, this is like a magical fairy exploration site. My kids both love it and think it's too small.
But anyways, so I have peed in my backyard, but it is also literally like something someone can just look down into my backyard. So, you
Eva: Got it, got it.
Kyley: I
Eva: Yeah. . Yeah. That's a good way of thinking about it. Treat, treat for them. Um, yeah, so we'll see how that goes. Stay tuned for more details, folks.
Kyley: Amazing.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Um, what's bringing you joy?
Eva: Oh, I think adopting Okay. Actually, yeah, it is being outside more so like, that's the thing about living in an Airstream trailer cuz I, so I'm living in the Airstream trailer, but I'm using the. For a lot of things. So the house is like an extension of my living space, but it requires me, I don't know about you, but like there were times when I was living in, well I always try to make it a point to get outside, but like it's easy sometimes, [01:04:00] especially in the winter, just to like, maybe not get out of the house all day or like, maybe it's like 3:00 PM and you're like, oh my God, I haven't like been outside cuz you like work from home.
Never gonna have that problem here. Like, I'm outside so much more and I'm barefoot in the grass. So much more. Like that is huge cuz like even in Portland I had grass, but it was always fucking cold and wet.
Kyley: yeah, yeah. Portland was really not your, your, your geography. Yeah,
Eva: So, um, yeah, that is bringing me joy. I'm like, oh, this is why I came here. Yeah. What about you?
Kyley: Uh, fucking friendship, man
Eva: You're very, you're very good at it.
Kyley: Oh.
Eva: Oh, I, yeah. Can I just, sorry, A plug for Kylie. We'll, we haven't, we'll talk about this next time, but like, I was having a serious meltdown like the, a meltdown and Kylie called me and pulled me out of a ditch. Was a total fucking lifeline. And [01:05:00] yeah, I think you are, well equipped to talk about friendship because Yeah, you're really fucking good at it, so.
Kyley: Well, thank
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Um, thank you. I'm letting myself perceive that. Um, yeah, I recently have been having a lot of, just like, I just feel like I've been having a lot of like really beautiful, rich conversations with people either like that moment when you reach out to me and we talked, we talked for so long, everybody that I drove two hours in the wrong direction.
So that's a funny story. We'll update you all on later. Um, but. Like, I also reached out this week to my dear friend Catherine, who also runs operations for my business, and, um, basically cried to her about having a neuro divergent kiddo. And because she knows that even better than, you know, she, her kid, her kids are just like, just enough [01:06:00] older than me that she was a lifeline at that moment.
And then Rebecca Altman, who was our recent guest on the show, she and I have been having these like really, really juicy deep dive conversations about like, abandonment wounds and like, really like, just like straight to the heart of the matter kind of conversations. And, you know, I'm perpetually having these rich conversations with Liz.
And, and, and my dear, dear friend Vanessa just sends me psychic hits every freaking day. I get the, like, psychic message. Anyways, I just having this moment of like, this rich, this richness of friendship and in particular these kind of friendships that invite me to become more of myself. And um, and all of those friendships that I just mentioned are ones that I, that are, have, I've known all of, I mean, you and I go back a little bit further, but basically they're like 2020 and on friendships, right?
These like, um, relationships that I, [01:07:00] I don't know. I just feel so truly humbled and grateful to have these kind of friends that aren't excited to go to these really deep place, are excited to go into the cavern with me and, um, that can, are willing to reach out when they're crying and also are places I can go and I'm crying and I don't know, man, I just feel, uh, really lucky.
Eva: Yeah. It
Kyley: You all live way too far away. Nobody is geographically close to me and I hate that, but that part aside.
Eva: right, we're gonna do this and we're gonna meet in 2023. I also wanna say your experience sounds rich and abundant, and it's something that I think, you know, should, should be met with a lot of gratitude because, you know, loneliness is the thing that like so many people are feeling.
And I, I wanna bust this myth that like, it's hard to make friends as, as adult. Like, meaning, I think a lot of people like get really caught up in that. Like my, myself included, I've heard people say it so many times, like, it's [01:08:00] so hard to make friends as adult adults that like, then that becomes your reality.
And I think that it's very affirming to be like, wait, no, you, you can make friends as adults, guys, and, and you're gonna need to because you're gonna be a different person.
Kyley: Yes. I think that's really, yeah, exactly. And it, and I think, uh, it requires a willingness to like
Eva: I think you could do a course on it actually. I know that sounds so dumb and maybe not something that you're interested in, but I feel like that's something that people actually like would need help with, would pay for and like would be a huge thing for humanity, because I think there are a lot of people who feel isolated and millennials in general are just kind
Kyley: You know, what's the problem though? I, I, I think we're better teachers at the things that are hard for us. So like making, I don't know what it is, like being enough of my, it's like, it's like there's people that I can f i f. It's like I feel there's some part of me that's like, this is this, this one, this is your person.
And so in that moment I am more of myself with them, which [01:09:00] allows for a, like deep connection. But it's not, it's not hard. Therefore I don't actually think I'm a good teacher of it cuz it's just
Eva: so interesting.
Kyley: Right. I think like the way in which, I don't know, I have a harsher critic in the way that I've like learned over decades to be gentle with myself is what makes me a good teacher of.
Eva: Hmm. That actually is really interesting, helpful, because I'm like, oh, no wonder I teach this job. I'm like, why can't I ever teach on anything that's like, comes natural to me? I'm like,
Kyley: I don't think you're a good teacher of
Eva: Yeah. Okay. That makes so much sense.
Kyley: Yeah. Like we had this math teacher in high school who like literally went to m I T when he was 14. He was the worst math teacher. He was so bad at it. He also later embezzled all the money from the P T A and had to go to jail.
Eva: Oh my God. Oh,
Kyley: it wasn't the pta, but like some school fund. Yeah. Anyway, clearly he didn't know what to do with his math skills, but he was a terrible math teacher because it, he didn't know how to help [01:10:00] 14 year olds who were confused about geometry, you know?
Eva: That makes sense.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: All right. Well thank you everybody for sticking around. We love you. Yeah. Uh, if you like the show, make sure to like, subscribe, write a
Kyley: Tell your friends.
Eva: your friends all the things. Um, send us people who you want to be on the show. Also, let us know if it's a podcast that you think we'd, we would be a good fit for.
Cuz we love being on other people's shows. So hit us up. We love you.
Kyley: Hi.