This episode got meaty & esoteric fast. We wound up discussing free will and the grace of choicelessness with the brilliant and wise Victoria Jane.
This episode got meaty & esoteric fast. We wound up discussing free will and the grace of choicelessness with the brilliant and wise Victoria Jane.
https://victoriajane.co/,
https://www.instagram.com/victoriajane.hd/
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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Eva: Um, welcome to the universe.
Victoria: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and see both your smiling faces.
Eva: Yay. Um, this is another one of those confluences of like, good friends coming together. So I'm very, um, excited that I get to introduce Kylie and Victoria. Victoria, what's something that life is teaching you right now?
Victoria: Oh, I, I know this is something like you had kind of prepped me a little bit before and I think I told you something and I don't even remember what [00:08:00] that was. So the big theme I think is like finding the gold and the, the lessons in a feeling of stuckness and like what comes from like the gold that comes from disillusionment.
Kyley: Ooh. Instantly. I'm like, oh, I understand why you're really good friends with Eva. This all makes sense.
Kyley: Can you please say more about that?
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. So, Yeah, I think I, so I know that one of the things you have asked guests, I think in the past is like some version of like, what's your spiritual practice? Right? And this relates to me answering your question. Disillusionment specifically for me, I think has come up around this idea of like, what does it mean to have a spiritual business? And I imagine that just like there's many different versions of what does spirituality mean to you, just as many as there are [00:09:00] people. It's like, what does having a spiritual business mean also has many, many definitions. And I think something that I am actively integrating and learning from and don't have any clear answers around yet is an evolution in spiritual business, um, for me.
Victoria: Because like yeah, like what does that mean? And I think. Past versions of me would be like, well, you know, it's like conscious and like there's a connection to spirit and I am the vessel or whatever. Um, but I think increasingly something I'm sitting with is, how does integrity play a role in spiritual business?
Victoria: And as my definition of integrity evolves and deepens, like something that maybe was exciting is an offering a year ago, feels empty and hollow now. And like, if I'm in integrity with that,
Victoria: how, how do I honor that? And of course, in facing that question, is this disillusionment with like what I thought I wanted or what I, how I thought it was gonna be like, isn't.
Victoria: And [00:10:00]
Victoria: also like, again, this idea of spiritual business. Um, how much is spiritual and how much is business and Sure, sure. Like duality, like, and you couldn't have both. We're not saying like, let's break these old, um, stereotypes of like, Poverty vows and blah, blah, blah. Not saying that those things can't coexist, but I think for me and my specific personal path in business right now, um, I don't have an answer to that.
Victoria: I don't have an answer to how much is business and this integrity piece
Victoria: in it is this conflict that I haven't solved around, well, maybe
Victoria: what I am here to share with the world feels more like an art and less like a business. And is that okay?
Victoria: So that's what it meant.
Eva: Wow.
Eva: I honestly don't even know where to dig in
Kyley: I
Victoria: I was.
Kyley: do that Love this more.
Eva: Kylie, do you have thoughts?[00:11:00]
Kyley: Oh, so many thoughts. So, um, and then I think about this a lot as someone who's like.
Kyley: a deeply spiritual person and a business coach, right? And then, and on the show, and by the scenes, that's often a thing that even though my, my business coaching is like, you know, 5% strategy, a 95%, all these other things, like this is a question that I find myself like churning through constantly.
Kyley: Um, and and I also, it, the more I sit with it in some ways, the more I, it's like I can feel truth, but also. It's like, the classic thing of like the less, you know?
Kyley: like, I'm not I'm not, I'm struggling to be articulate because in some ways this feels like you've like gifted me access to such a big thing that I walked through.
Kyley: But, Um, but I really love this piece that you're speaking to around integrity
Kyley: and [00:12:00] the importance of integrity. I got off a consult call for this program I'm running now called Alchemy and at the end she said, you know, you and to my business partner, you seem really in integrity. And I almost cried cuz I was like, oh my God.
Kyley: That's like the only thing I want anyone to say to me in this space of like, let me teach you about money and um, from a spiritual perspective and then have the person say that's an in that I'm in integrity because
Kyley: there's so much slime.
Kyley: But um, anyway, this is my rambling way of asking. If you could offer up a little bit more about kind of how
Kyley: I think it can be tricky to even recognize what it means when something is out of integrity, especially when it once was. And so I'm curious if you could share a little bit what your processes of recognizing like this thing that once was is no longer, and how you can kind of hold yourself gently in the, like letting go of it and shedding.
Eva: Yeah. Can I also add to that?
Victoria: out, let me know.
Eva: Yeah.
Victoria: No, I mean, I, I do have some [00:13:00] thoughts, but like, I, I guess I wanted to start with that cuz I don't think there's like a neat endpoint, you know? Um, but for, for me, part of how, I think, how I've started to sense this, this shift is, On one hand, just like, thank you. Life things, certain things have not felt like they're in flow or like certain things will feel like this isn't working in a way that my mind wants.
Victoria: Um, but another piece is in my, in my work one-on-one with people and in my personal life. Cuz I think it's all, you know, they're both just ways for things to show up. I am increasingly sensitive to people using human design as a tool for spiritual bypass.
Kyley: Um,
Victoria: But it's so subtle. It's so subtle because the people that I work with, I mean they're probably like listeners of this podcast that people you work with like many years in their personal practice, like done a lot of their, faced a lot of their own shadows, like very [00:14:00] intuitive, sensitive, willing to look at their stuff. And part of what gets people in the door, I think with a lot of systems, whether it's human design or something else is like, Wow. I like see and understand myself in a new way and now I can act in a new way. So there's this sort of inherent like cur undercurrent of like, you can do something, you can do something to like make things better or be more healed or whatever. But there reaches and that's useful and there's nothing wrong with that. That was part of my path as well. But then there
Victoria: reaches a point where like, there's actually nothing left to do anymore.
Victoria: So I wanna like, just give an example cuz I, I can hear myself starting to get super abstract. like, you know, I've had people come to me, okay, so like, uh, environments in human design, right?
Victoria: Like, this is a big one, and I had my whole like six, six plus months of travel last year. It's like, okay, there's this premise that there's [00:15:00] an environment that our body is most comfortable in. Great.
Victoria: But when someone comes to me and they're like, all these things are going wrong in my life, and like, is it because they don't live on a mountain?
Victoria: I'm like, no,
Victoria: know,
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: but this slippery slope to that is so slippery, you know, like to, anyway, so that's, that's a little bit is like, I think just starting to feel out of integrity with, um, I don't wanna sell you on fixing something anymore,
Victoria: the paradox,
Victoria: the paradox is that that's what gets people in the door, and there's also nothing wrong with it.
Kyley: Yes. Oh my God, yes. You're showing up because there's some discomfort or friction and you want something to be other. And also like, and also what I'm offering is to hold this space that like, what if nothing was
Victoria: Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like life jujitsu, you, you know, like, like for me, learning, I as a projector and so burnt out and I, like, all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I, I don't need to be keeping up and I don't need to be proving that myself. [00:16:00] Open ego. Like that was true and there was something to do at the time.
Victoria: But when you start, when something feels uncomfortable, and then you reach for the, what do I do? That's the, that's the bypass part versus
Victoria: something just came across my life path and it clicked, and now I'm being called into doing something from, from like outside of myself. Thoughts.
Eva: I'm, I'm just like, there's so much to talk about here and I think all these are all themes that like Tylee and I have kind of talked about and struggled with sometimes and have BD around cause we're just like um,
Eva: it is so fucking annoying because I teach this where this, this like, sense of getting
Eva: out of doing and and And seeing that as sometimes like, a a control response or a mind response. Um, and Kylie can attest every time she's like coached me or given me advice, I immediately go [00:17:00] to okay, now what do I do? It's like, I, I still, I still, I still, I still want That, So on just a personal level, I can
Eva: relate
Kyley: give, you, give yourself at least a deep breath before you ask that question.
Eva: Yes. Thank you. I, I'll take a deep breath, but, um, I just don't, I'm just saying I know this internal, or I know the struggle internally. Well, um, but also,
Victoria: I mean, same.
Eva: yeah. Yeah. but and then this other piece about,
Eva: well, I think I've said this to you, Kylie d before, and,
Eva: and even, and even as I say this, I feel like, I've, well, I've walked away from it recently, but there have been times in my business where I've been like,
Eva: I don't.
Eva: Like, come to me if you don't wanna fix anything. Like, I, we're not, we're not here to like fix something. And I have had like, like my favorite clients are the ones who have come to me who are like I don't really know why I'm here and I don't have anything particularly that I wanna work on, but I'm just really open.[00:18:00]
Eva: And then I'm like yes, let's go, let's play. But that's rare because it's like most of the time people don't come in through the door Because of suffering, because they're like something is off and wrong and I wanna fix it. Um, so I don't have the answer E either.
Eva: I don't know. And, and I'm, and I think that it's, I love that you're bringing this up in the context of integrity.
Eva: Um,
Eva: and yeah, I don't have the answer.
Kyley: I, one of the lines that I always say in a consult call for like one-on-one coaching is always a point where I say like, also, you don't need me,
Kyley: right? To your point of like, Eva, like you don't need me. like I might help you move faster and like, we will have a ton of fun and this, you know? first one feels like a good fit, but also like, you don't need me. and, then sometimes I'm like am I just pushing a, bunch of clients? So is that like a terrible line? Right? [00:19:00]
Kyley: But it's so important to me to hold the space of like,
Kyley: that that I say that in part to, for my own, to be in integrity for myself. That's like kind of my line for me to like, like re like keep reintroducing like
Kyley: this.
Kyley: Like my intention is, is that, this is not a space of fixing perhaps a space of building or a space of spaciousness. But, um, but I think it is a really nuanced thing to hold space for, like compassionately for people suffering and really honor their desire to like create a new experience
Kyley: without doing that from a place of fixing.
Kyley: I think that's, um,
Kyley: And,
Kyley: I think that's something that I feel like I have access to in my body more than I have like language For like I know, when I'm holding space in that way or I know when someone's holding me in that way. like, I can like
Kyley: physically feel the difference. Um, [00:20:00]
Kyley: But it's tricky then when you try to like wedge that into capitalism,
Eva: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah,
Eva: And business.
Kyley: yeah,
Eva: and all these things. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah.
Kyley: Can you say more about this art piece? Because I think that's another really beautiful layer of like
Kyley: a potential, I dunno,
Victoria: Yeah.
Kyley: a different, a different way.
Victoria: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think where I've been exploring this is like my identity as a creative, as an artist, cuz I didn't grow up as like that being a label that I used for myself. Like, um, at all. You know, I, I didn't, I wasn't like super into art or drama or anything like that. So there's a lot of stereotypes and tropes out there of like, oh, this starving artist or whatever.
Victoria: Like, like I felt like I never [00:21:00] struggled with. Cause I was like, well I don't even, it doesn't even apply to me, you,
Victoria: know? Um, but the more so the deeper I go into design, the more I think about and, and yeah. And specifically like my own design as a as a six two as like a role model. Um, Of my life being the offering as well.
Victoria: And so then thinking about life as art, like living a template that is not like super common. um,
Victoria: and so then I'm like, wait, maybe I am like more of an artist than I thought. And then all of the stuff that, you know, cause I haven't worked with these artists, um, societal sort of like limiting beliefs or whatever, like at all.
Victoria: So I'm, I've been sort of starting from ground zero, like I'd say in the last six months. And, and I think that playing with just like all the different ideas of that has maybe freed up some more space in this idea of spiritual business because there are all different kinds of [00:22:00] artists. Some make their money full-time from their art, but some people are artists and they like also work at a bar or whatever.
Kyley: uh,
Victoria: and so that was one thing that just like helped me kind of expand because I. For the listeners, like my background, you know, I came from a very like, academically oriented household. Um, I was like trying to get all the gold stars in my career for a long time. And when I left super burnt out, I didn't, I couldn't see like, some of the same scaffolding that I carried with me cuz I was like, well now, like, fuck all of that, right?
Victoria: But I, the scaffolding that I carried, I think was still like, but I'm gonna be really good at my business and like, whatever. And I, I could only see that once certain things actually like receded. I was like, okay, you, you actually can't get any, um, validation from this anymore. And so then, so that's where the inquiry that like [00:23:00] artists and creative have been coming in, of like,
Victoria: you know, somebody can still call themselves a writer if they haven't published a book.
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: And of course, you know, there's many different people that are in that situation that might give opposing opinions on other either side of the line. But I think what comes to what it comes back to is
Victoria: if you ask that person, like do you think of yourself as a writer, as a creative, it's about getting to the point where you can say yes and own it if that's, if that's true for you.
Victoria: Right. So this inquiry of artist creative, it's allowing me to reframe like the, if my art is like exploring the art of being a projector that is whole and complete in and of itself, outside of the scaffolding that it had carried with me, that I was trying to like overlay a certain worldview onto.
Kyley: Oh, I love that.
Eva: Yeah. I love that too. Uh, can I ask, So so essentially, just to make [00:24:00] sure I understand and reflect, reflect back what I'm hearing. You're, what you're saying is part of your. Your art. What did you say? you said something really beautiful earlier. It's like your. art is how you live your life and maybe how you're living your life as a projector or how you're living your life as a human. is that, does that sound accurate?
Victoria: Yeah. I mean when you say it, it sounds like really aspirational and I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing that, but, but I'm attempting to. Yeah.
Eva: Well, okay. I have so many thoughts about this. Partly I love it because I think it's very bold. I think it's just, it's bold to say, Hey, um, this is what I'm offering. And also it's also, I think, closer to the, that's what I want more than anything else. I think that's true.
Eva: I only want to be, um, learning from people who I think are in it with me and like are, are in the are in it, you know?
Eva: And they're,
Eva: um, they're doing the damn thing And
Eva: I will [00:25:00] say Victoria, something that you have done for me very well without even trying, which I think is really interesting, and I want like, listeners to know this, is that you go out and like you live your life in this
Eva: weird ass way.
Eva: and I'm like, oh my God, this is so cool.
Eva: Like, here's this woman who's just Like,
Eva: it it's, it's contagious and you're modeling for me, I think all the possibilities and all Um, yeah, all the possibilities. So I may say this and you're, and you're probably just like I'm just living my life. But I will say, you have had that effect on me, and you don't even, you don't even know it because you're not, you're just living your life.
Eva: But, but it's so opening to be in the energy of someone who's like
Eva: I don't know who's really open-minded, who's.
Eva: Dives into alternative ways of like thinking and being. So, so I think I wanna attest that I actually [00:26:00] do see that happening that the way that you are living your life does feel like I'm receiving something from that.
Victoria: Wow. Thank you so much. I feel like I could cry. That was like so kind to receive and I know you mean it too, so it's like, just, uh, thank you.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, I'll be really transparent here, and I was gonna say this for like, the intro, but I'll just say it now.
Eva: You, okay. So when I was deciding whether or not I wanted to, like I was split with my partner, ex-partner Adam, you had like rolled through, um, Portland and I had just, met you in this is the first time I was meeting you in person and you
Eva: had gone through like a conscious separation, both with your partner and.
Eva: I just saw you as someone who was like
Eva: living your full life
Eva: after a, what was probably a very difficult And devastating breakup. And so that was kind of gave me, it gave me relief [00:27:00] cuz I was in such a transitional phase of like, I don't know, like, you know, the death of a relationship can feel like your whole life is ending cuz it's everything that you know. and so I was like, I'm like scared, biting my nails and I was like, oh wait, here's this person who's like,
Eva: who's, I don't know, it just, you had This energy of like, I'm not saying it's perfect, But I'm, I'm free. Like I'm living as a free person. And I was like,
Eva: that's what I want because that feels true. like, I just wanna get closer to whatever feels true.
Eva: So anyway, I don't know if I ever told you that, but I now,
Eva: I share this very publicly on the podcast.
Victoria: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. I mean Okay, so one that just, Yeah.
Victoria: that like hits me right in the heart. That means so much. And something else I wanna say to that though is like, it has felt choiceless, like, I mean, my whole life, but let's just bring it to the present and say like, since 2017 to 2020 ish, like, [00:28:00] uh, like these things that feel hard for me, it's like, it's like I'm there and it's like, Ooh, this isn't working anymore.
Victoria: Like, I guess I just gotta take the next step, you know? And I don't know if it felt that way for, for you and Kylie, I'm sure you've, you know, we're all human and we've all had things come up in our life. Um, but like I was just looking back at like some, some note I had written myself a while ago and I was in conversation with a healer that it has been super important to me.
Victoria: And I was talking about like feeling scared or something like that. And the, her words to me were that like courage and a feeling of okayness and safety. Like those don't just happen. They're not just like there, like those are, those are qualities that are forged, like precisely [00:29:00] when we feel shaky and insecure and that it's not okay. And then I took that and I was like, so everyone's a coward until they make the courageous choice. And she was like, well, I don't know if I'd call everyone a coward, but I was like, that feels true for me. But like, truly, like from inside my own experience, it's like, and it's such a, again, I'm like, it's such a trope.
Victoria: I can hear all these interviews where people have been like, I, I was scared, but I did it anyway. So that's like, not what I mean right now. I think it's like, I mean, I guess it is kind of what I'm saying, but just like in the moment things are unfolding, it's always just felt like ch choiceless, you know? I don't, that's a complete thought.
Kyley: Oh, I love this so much. Okay. Who's things that I'm thinking of? I, I, I really resonate with what you're saying about, I love this, your mentor sharing this. I, I've been doing a lot of work this, this week in particular. It's been my like, I'm giving my nervousness some love this week. and I was [00:30:00] thinking this morning, like, yeah. this, this is when my daughter's having a meltdown. Hold on. We're here. There's three dogs and my mom and my brother and my son and Birdie all of the same, same bed. This is their like, little routine. You can leave this on the podcast, people will enjoy this and it's their little routine. But last night, birdie had a meltdown because, um, there were too many ducks and she had to come up and sleep with me, which usually they want nothing to do with me when I'm here.
Kyley: It's like, mom, who? But last night there were too many dogs, birdie said, and she had to sleep up here and she's like really crying right now,
Eva: Aw.
Kyley: I, love so much what you're speaking to because, um, I, I've been doing some really trying to tend to my nervous system in particular this week. Just give it some love and I was thinking like, And so as a result I've noticed the kind of like, I've noticed the ways in which it's on edge cuz I decided to pay attention to it, And I was intentionally thinking like, this is the moment [00:31:00] when like a calm, nervous system is built, right? It's like noticing that it's not right. Noticing the absence and then choosing it, And I also love what you're saying about it, feeling choiceless because. I think a lot about how at this point in my evolution, it's increasingly not available to abandon myself. And so there are moments where like there's a seemingly difficult conversation or seemingly scary choice. And it's not that I don't feel afraid, but it's so rooted into my body that I can't reject myself.
Kyley: There are plenty of ways where I still reject myself, but there's some ways where I, it's not an option anymore. And it's like, uh, oh, well, it feels choiceless even as it feels scary or hard or uncomfortable. Um, but in those moments, I [00:32:00] also can feel the weight of all the smaller choices and big choices like waiting, like the, like are the weight behind that, that make it feel choiceless to do the, to do the thing. Even as I'm.
Kyley: or, you know, afraid or sad or whatever the case may be. So I really love what you're saying.
Victoria: Well, I would guess also cuz in those moments, like you can't unknow or unsee like what you now know or see whether that's like oh, this doesn't serve me anymore, or blah, blah, blah. Um,
Eva: on. I I have I have to interject though, because, because hold onto that thought. But just so I understand, and also I'm gonna clarify
Eva: in case anyone listening is wondering, when you say choiceless though, what you mean is
Eva: you're up against, I dunno if I'd say you're up against the wall, but you're at a place where you, there is no, Like, you have to do the thing.
Eva: You can't not do the [00:33:00] thing
Eva: that feels, I guess, right to you or true to you. but I think my question is,
Eva: I
Eva: I, g I 100% understand what you guys mean. And also I think, I wonder
Eva: is that really true though, as a choiceless? Because I think that maybe speaks to more of like your integrity, the both of you, because you could do the other thing, right?
Eva: You could, you could abandon yourself, Kylie or Victoria. You could stay in the same place
Eva: Um, but you can't, like I hear what you're saying. you can't because you're like, that's just no longer an option for me. I can't, I refuse or I cannot live that way. But I, I guess I just wanna say maybe there should be some
Eva: props given to the self or ownership of like, you know, cause I think a lot of people do stay stuck And myself included by past me, who has stayed stuck in other, situations for longer or who made, like, who did abandon myself.
Eva: Do you know? What I mean? [00:34:00]
Victoria: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Yeah, I mean, I will offer, I don't think this phrase of choiceless, for me, one of the reasons I'm really loving it is it feels like a celebration, cuz it feels to me like, like I. I, I built the momentum so that it's choiceless, choiceless, right? Because I, there is some, there's some awareness in the moment.
Kyley: Like I, I came up recently where there was like, I don't know, some conversation that I was like, oh, I'd really rather not have, but also like, now that I've seen it I can't unsee it. And so I have to have the conversation and, and, and there was no wavering, there was no waffling of like, will I or Walnut. It was just like this, is what we do.
Kyley: And so it was a choice, but it. there was only one option for me and also for me, those moments always feel like a celebration Because it's like I have built up, I've built up all all the, so much of the momentum lives on the side of choosing myself.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: increasingly after a lifetime of [00:35:00] the choice being to reject myself increasingly when there's two doors, the only one I can really walk through is don't choose.
Kyley: Mys is, is to choose myself.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: and and I really appreciate like just the more and more weight that goes behind that and makes that seem like, and here again, that's the only choice. And here?
Kyley: again, that's the only
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Versus other times where it's like, okay, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it.
Kyley: I'm gonna choose myself. I might be, it might suck.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: Is that, does that kind of also feel like what you're speaking to, or am I taking it in a totally different direction? Victoria.
Victoria: I just love that, that even it's like, wait, wait, wait. We gotta drill down on this choiceless thing first because I, I think I probably have like a fringy opinion on the choiceless thing. Um,
Eva: Yes. We're here for the
Victoria: and this is getting really philosophical, right? So like,
Victoria: I don't
Eva: here for the philosophical, so you're, we're good.
Victoria: I think increasingly to me, Every decision [00:36:00] that seemingly like I have made is just what's visible on the surface that's riding all of the experience conditioning circumstances, inputs that have been not under my total control.
Victoria: So for example, like when I had, I was at the peak of my health stuff and I ended up quitting my career. That felt choiceless because it was scary. It was scary. I can't do it. I can't do it. And then all, And then I was like, okay, I'm like, blacking out and testing postmenopausal at 30. like I'm gonna do some serious damage to my health.
Victoria: I, I have to quit. no, Um, was it a choice for me to have quit earlier? Maybe theoretically, but to me, all the weeks and months and years That I stayed were also choiceless because I wasn't ready or like there wasn't enough accumulated to get me to leave then it was still too early. [00:37:00] and so like I for me it's like the more I think about even the tiniest things, it's like they all tie back to something that was out of my control.
Victoria: Whether it's where I was born, you know, the time, the time and place here, who happened, who I happened to bump into, you know, like for example, how did I meet Eva? She just happened to be in that cohort of this program, right? Like, that was not a choice. Um,
Victoria: so like, sure I made a choice to like talk to her and like become friends, but it was ultimately choiceless to me.
Victoria: And I recognize that's not how everybody sees it, but that's kind of how, that's what I mean when I'm using that term.
Eva: I love this so much. I have like a smile ear to ear. I mean, this gets into like the philoso philosophical conversation of like free will or, or whatever. But I hear you though. I hear you because I've been, it's essentially, um,
Eva: uh, some.
Eva: Uh, so I've been like, so I have my teacher Tom, And occasionally we'll have calls and like, um, in our, we had a call a couple weeks ago And he [00:38:00] said something like
Eva: we were talking about lose, I was talking about losing control. Cuz, cuz you know, I have this fear of like losing my mind or being too out there or whatever.
Eva: And he's like, can you really ever lose anything? Can you actually lose something that was never yours? Like, you can't lose control cuz you were never in control in the, first place. Like that's, this is all an illusion. Like this is,
Eva: you are not breathing, you are being breathed like by the universe. And and
Eva: I, I feel like
Eva: it's actually when I'm in my most present state that, that I
Eva: see that is true.
Eva: Um,
Victoria: Mm-hmm.
Eva: and.
Eva: You know, I could hear people, maybe there's some people who listen to this and Like, yeah, totally. And then other, I could hear another, you know, group of people who are like, that can't be possible. like that's not true. like, of course we have a choice otherwise, you know? What about morality? Et cetera, et cetera. [00:39:00]
Kyley: Hmm.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Eva: Thoughts, Kylie.
Victoria: Yeah, I think it.
Victoria: takes a great deal. I think it takes a certain level of like or a certain perspective, I think, to be able to like sit with this, this idea of choiceless in the way that we're talking about it. Because to your point, like all of the morality stuff, and do I even wanna go here?
Victoria: I guess I do. Um, like I, I'm one of those people I guess that thinks like if you took my consciousness and plopped it into a different life path with. A different set of circumstances and suffering. Like I could do things that were bad, right? Or I could do things that were like not seen as like, Um, you know, in a certain light because we are all, there's like, how do I know somebody else's experience?
Victoria: And so from a morality perspective, it's like if we're all, if we're all just part of this ever expanding consciousness that wants to know the, [00:40:00] light as well as the darks, like there is a place for the dark too And I'm not saying like my ego is like, no, no, But I'm not a fill in the blank. Um, but I can't guarantee that if I wasn't horrible things that some I wouldn't make a mistake or I wouldn't do something that would be seen as bad.
Victoria: Right? So
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah. I.
Victoria: And my ego wants to be like, but also I'm not a bad person. Just be queer.
Kyley: I mean, you're speaking my language now because I talk a lot about like, I call my retreats monster school. Right. so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with you in, this, in what you're speaking to. I think I'm also really fascinated by, and I'm so glad that Eva, you did your beautiful thing of like, wait, wait, go back to choiceless. I because I love what you're speaking to You know, we talk a lot on the show about surrender, [00:41:00] and I increasingly, I feel like I'm constantly being like, reinitiated into the reminder. like, there is nothing to do to bring it back to your point in the beginning, like, there is nothing to do if there's just surrender and the illusion of control.
Kyley: Then there's surrender And the illusion of control and, and in that paradigm, like, if that's, if that's my truth, There's something potent about this choiceless, which is slamming up against the, you know, Kylie who sat in like a philosophy class in college learning about predetermination and like, was like really pissed off about it, right?
Kyley: Because there's this way that there's this way that fate can feel like control. There's this way that this idea of fate can feel like this vice grip. Um, it feels very cruel to me. And, and the way you're speaking to choiceless, it also to me has this feeling of like inevitability and like, yeah, be the [00:42:00] fucking leaf in the wind.
Kyley: And it's interesting because intellectual, like, they're arguably the same thing. And also I've been like watching my body respond to these two different, these, these same ideas that are different ideas that I'm watching a different phy somatic response. So, I don't have a tidy bow to put on this statement other than
Victoria: I have something I wanna add to what you're saying. Like, cause, cuz you pointed out like, oh, I feel my body re responding in different ways to the, the, I don't know, just like the tone behind it, I guess. And to me, if we're all just consciousness informed and we're like living out this, this dance of life, right? Then to me, like one of, one of those ways that like, sort of, oh, predeterminism feels, and I don't, I don't have a philosophy background, so I am a little bit outta my element with this, but,
Kyley: That was my philosophy background, that
Victoria: yeah.
Kyley: class,
Kyley: so.
Victoria: Okay. But it's like, to me that that sort of flavor of it is. like, showing up to the, the play to the movie, the Game of life and being [00:43:00] like, fuck, I'm stuck here.
Victoria: Like This, this is a bummer. I gotta, I gotta experience pain. Like, when, when do I get outta here? Like, is it an option to just like, opt out versus like showing up to the, to the set. Right to the game and being like, yeah, there's like some gnarly stuff in here, but like, I get to be at the party and I'm gonna enjoy it.
Victoria: You know, it's like, I guess it's like kind of Like having a good attitude or not if we wanna Like, really, really simplify it. Um, but I don't think you can fake it and you can't make yourself have a good attitude if you don't feel that way about it. So, not to get meta, but Like that
Victoria: too was choiceless. right? via the experiences you have. Um, and you know, I've certainly played in the, the other camp too of like, is everything futile? But if it, it means nothing, then what's the point? Because I think we have to be real with ourselves if that's something we're saying.
Kyley: Oh my God, I love that we've arrived at nihilism. I'm so happy about this.
Victoria: Oh,
Eva: yeah.
Eva: I've been [00:44:00] surprised it doesn't come up more often in our podcast. Kylie,
Kyley: yeah, cause it does, like, that's the, to me, that's the one of the things that's so scary in, in surrender, right? If I like watch, if I watch me, who like sinks into surrender, she gets to the part of part, she, she gets to like, like, like meaning making is such a like, feels so important, right? And so, um, uh, it's part of, it's part of the play that I like really wanna hold onto.
Kyley: Um, and um, um, and I think there's freedom in like, they're looking at what, if nothing means anything or what if it doesn't mean the things that I think it means because I don't know there's a freedom. This conversation is opening up a lot more things than it, and so I feel like I just keep being like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyley: Here's a half form thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a half form thought, but.
Eva: Okay, so I mean, I hear you Kylie, and again, I don't, [00:45:00] I mean, we're, I think we're asking the big questions that don't have answers to, so that's why we don't have answers. But I will say
Eva: I agree. I, I can, I think it can be really,
Eva: for me, it can feel terrifying or I don't, like having, feeling like I'm not in control or having a loss of control.
Eva: But, um, but.
Eva: there's also something really liberating about it. Kylie, you and I have said many times this idea of like, you're, I I don't know how to explain it, but like, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're not ready until you're ready. Like, you're not ready until you're ready. And that time of when you're ready is like, Q is not up to you.
Eva: It's, it's not really up to you. like, you can read the books and hire the people and take this ayahuasca retreat or like, do these things.
Eva: Um, but what, but Like
Eva: what decides when you're ready? It's, it's all just like the all the past things in your life that, had added up that like then make you ready. And so,
Eva: I don't know, It, it, I feel like I'm off the hook a little bit in a good way. Not like, in a, I don't, I'm trying to like shirk responsibility, but like it is surrender. It's like, [00:46:00] okay, I'm not in charge. I am not fucking in charge. And so what if I could just trust and just, just con and then like, you, you fall deeper and deeper and deeper into like full on fucking surrender.
Eva: Which,
Eva: I mean, I think that's, that's the level of surrender that I think we're talking about. It's like, just moment by moment bucking living.
Eva: And I think that's
Eva: like enlightenment or like liberation of some sort.
Eva: Yeah.
Victoria: Let me know if you find out,
Eva: Well, and also I, I, I wonder if it's not that complicated though, because I think I, I do think I,
Eva: uh,
Eva: I do think. again I'll reference Tom again cuz he's my only real reference for people who, who, for someone who could live this way, but it's like the way of like everything is allowed.
Eva: that's it. Like that's it.
Eva: Everything is allowed and [00:47:00] there's no resistance. There's no story of like, this is bad. Like, you know, and there's that
Eva: Buddhist monk story about like, oh, who's to say what's good or bad? Like maybe something that. seems good right now could be a fucking shit show five years from now. You know? So, Yeah.
Eva: Sorry. Good. Hoya, you were gonna say
Victoria: Yeah.
Victoria: no, I, was just gonna agree with you on you, you coing your teacher Tom, of like whatever is is right because it is. but but like, so much easier said than done. Right? This, this is where sort of like the more I deepen into, into that phrase and like kind of this topic that we're talking about of like true acceptance, not in a like, meme way. but Like but like oh, acceptance of it feels like, I'm gonna die right now with how uncomfortable something is.
Victoria: And I accept that too. Like that, that being with that more has [00:48:00] evolved obviously my sense of integrity, right? And, and this like
Victoria: am I trying to get a hit of using a tool to fix or change or control in some way?
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: So,
Eva: Or I would even say for this, for the spiritual folks, I think the real flex is
Eva: for spiritual folks. Many people who are listening to this podcast we're good at being like, oh, I feel like I'm gonna die and, let me just be with this. Cuz that is the, the quote unquote spiritual practice. I think what I see so much, so what I also see is, oh, I'm resisting.
Eva: I'm resisting. I don't wanna die. And you can't just, be with the fact that you're resisting cuz you're supposed to be spiritual. So you're supposed to be able to go into this and hold it all. And I would even invite you to insight. You say who's to say you're not supposed to resist? Like you, that's not wrong either.
Eva: It's like, wherever you are at. But it, that's like this weird,
Eva: weird dichotomy that happens when we get really spiritual. We just think we're supposed to act. We think we have, there's a, we have a version of what spirituality looks [00:49:00] like when we try to match that,
Eva: rather than just
Kyley: yeah.
Eva: what we, what we are right now, which oftentimes is,
Eva: flailing, unspiritual, judgmental.
Eva: We're in our heads, we're, you know, Condescending, Like maybe we're all these quote Like Kylie, what you speak to monstrous things, we're greedy, we're like, we're assholes, blah, blah, blah. and I think it's also being with all that.
Victoria: Yeah, yeah.
Kyley: have a que Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Victoria: No, go ahead.
Kyley: I I have a question, which is how do you guys see like our relationship to either time or, or our attachment to like getting somewhere as like swirling into all of this?
Victoria: Like I is your. I don't know if, is there like a hypothesis that like time drives urgency, or what do you mean?
Kyley: I don't, I don't, I think I don't totally know, but I'm just sitting with my [00:50:00] own as we're talking. I'm watching where my own like
Kyley: resistance lives and so often for me,
Kyley: my control is loud because I think I have to get somewhere
Victoria: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: and Um, and have all the things to unhook from. That one's really hard for me, to unhook from.
Kyley: Like this week I mentioned, I was like, this is my like, Stop visiting my family and we're having a nervous system week. Like, like that was like kind of my intention. like I canceled almost everything on my calendar except for the hell Universe, pod. And Um,
Kyley: And and part of that and like, it was like, really like I'm gonna read my book and put my feet up.
Kyley: And part of that was because, you know, so I'm in the middle of a launch and I kept feeling about, feeling into the excitement of like, okay, like what do I want on the other side? This is like a big thing that I teach and like business stuff is like, what do I want on the other side? and [00:51:00] realizing what? I want is to go with the exhale.
Kyley: What I want is like a deep sense of like,
Kyley: See, everything is great. I, am, I am so deeply taken care of like I'm taken care of beyond my wildest imagination, right? and I was like okay, well this is what I teach. what, I teach is like then you have to give yourself that now, not even, because that's the shortcut to getting what you want, but because that's just fucking thing you want.
Kyley: So stop holding it off
Eva: Stop waiting. Yeah.
Kyley: future point, right? Right. And so that's been like my kind of goal this week. Um,
Kyley: but
Kyley: yeah, but I I, I just, I just watch again and, and it's been really beautiful, but I just watch again and again how, when control shows up,
Kyley: it's cause I think I have to get somewhere or like accomplish something or arrive somewhere. and I, I guess I'm wondering if that's a me thing [00:52:00]
Kyley: or if that's also I. like also that's there for you guys. Does that make sense?
Eva: 100%. That makes a ton of sense. I have thoughts on this. I'll, I'll interject first and then Victoria, I would love for you to take over, but
Eva: I think most people,
Eva: um,
Eva: Like, even if you're incredibly, I think there's a, it's a very small sleuth of humanity that like don't believe that they need to get somewhere.
Eva: I think most
Eva: people, either consciously or unconsciously believe that That's what I think.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: what do you think?
Victoria: That was okay. That was a short one.
Eva: yeah. That was just like, I, was just adding in a thought, but I, there's, I'm sure there, there's more.
Victoria: So my first thought, Kylie, when you asked the question the first time was, okay, time is an illusion, but just to say that it was also kind of bypassing and, and like when I. It's like, okay, time is, time is an illusion the same way. Like our [00:53:00] bodies are an illusion, like we're just swirling energy, but like, guess what?
Victoria: I still gotta like eat and shit. And like,
Kyley: Right, right.
Victoria: Time is also real in that sense. So, so then I was trying to just connect it to like everything else we've been talking about and, and I think what you added on in the second part was like, okay, so time kind of like, feels like this thing that can just, that can feed more urgency or scarcity or whatever it is into these bigger, it's like great, we can talk about it at the abstract level, but then if we add time in, we've gotta like live our lives.
Victoria: How do I reconcile that maybe? Um, Well, I mean, I guess what I wanna say to that is, okay, but the idea that we have to get somewhere is like, that's a part that feels like can use some. Examination or like dismantling, right? Because I think even you asked me it as like you're like naming like, Hmm, I feel like I need to get somewhere, but like, is that the thing that should be driving like my, my actions, right?
Kyley: Well, yeah,
Kyley: sorry.
Victoria: yeah. Is that, I just wanted to clarify like, is [00:54:00] that
Kyley: I think. Yes. And I think my question is, I mean, I had this like really great experience with mushrooms last summer where my like field big takeaway was like, oh yeah. I'm already the cosmic ocean. There's no, like, I'm not playing this game to be enlightened. Like I already am enlightenment, right?
Kyley: Like I'm playing this game to like, you see how grass feels and like, you know, experience like, and so, um, and so I am, I am like, I'm constantly reminded that there's no fucking where to go, right? That feels like one of the things. And yet it's one of the most insidious things for me. that like comes back and back and back is like, oh, here I am trying to get somewhere again.
Kyley: Oh, here I am trying to get somewhere again. Um, so I guess my question, I think maybe my question is twofold. One, one question is very selfishly like how do you walk yourselves through if trying to get somewhere is showing up? Unhooking [00:55:00] from it. And then my other question, I think is like, so in this game of surrender, is your loudest pattern of resistance?
Kyley: Where does control show up loudest for you?
Victoria: I like these questions. Um, do you, okay. Actually I should have, I should have gotten your birth info before the call, Kylie, but do you know like much about how your human
Kyley: Yes. I am a manifesting generator and I'm a one three profile.
Victoria: Do you remember if you have a defined or undefined route? Like
Kyley: Oh,
Victoria: that's okay. Um, I I know, I know Eva has an undefined route, but, but the reason why I ask is just like to me, this? is actually answering maybe the second part of your question, because here's the thing, I think whether or not anyone specifically feels Like, we have to get somewhere, I think we all have some version of the mind telling us things aren't the way. They should be. Right. And to me, the map of things aren't the way they [00:56:00] should be is everywhere that you're white or black in your design. Whether you feel undefined root like, like stressed, urgency. I gotta, I gotta like hurry and do something, or I gotta prove myself. That's Like a big one for 70% of the population.
Victoria: Um, so for me, like a big part of what's been helpful is to literally see like, my chart doesn't know me, and yet it calls out every little piece of my own bullshit. Like what? So there's that. Um, and then to the first part of the question, wait, what was the, remind me what the first part was. How to walk myself through it.
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria: I mean, I, I guess it's an ex continuation of that, what I just said and like, seeing like, okay, these are my mental, these are my what, like ego mind patterns around, Denying or arguing with reality. And it's sure like we can play that game. And there's also nothing wrong with that. Did that for a long time.[00:57:00]
Victoria: Continue to do that. And then, and I think this gets to sort of you know, the meditation, the mindfulness, whatever your tools are, human design happens to be mine of, okay, so now I can identify with my awareness and my consciousness and just watch the mind do its dance And and argue with reality when actually there, there is no way to go.
Victoria: But it's one thing to intellectually know, that And it's another to have the body nervous system safety and, and like embodiment of then actually inhabiting the other place as opposed to still kind of like, trying to hop up in the mind. So I mean, I'm still definitely working on that. Um, But I think just, it's one of those things, it's like the, the more you see it, the less power it has.
Kyley: Mm.
Eva: Mm-hmm.
Kyley: Which also then comes back to your report about choiceless, which I'm also, to me, is also making me think of like the inevitability, [00:58:00] right?
Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kyley: yeah. Yeah. Just the more you see It it's just Yeah.
Kyley: it
Victoria: Which is why there isn't, we don't need to have that fixation. Like doing, fixing, doing, fixing. And you know, when we get to that point where it doesn't feel great anymore,
Eva: Yeah.
Eva: I just love that you are both my friends and like this is the kind of conversation that we did have. And I just, Kylie, I love your questions. Like this is, this is where when you ask these questions, I'm like, that's my girl. Um, but like, it's such good questions and I wanna come back because, so wait, um, how do you walk the questions?
Eva: How do you walk yourself through it? And then the other one was like, where does it show up loudest for you? Like that you gotta get somewhere, right? Uh, I, you
Kyley: Orton, or no, sorry. I'm curious specifically where control and resistance to surrender is loudest for you. For me, it's about like
Kyley: arriving at a place, but I'm curious, but it occurs to me that that's not necessarily everyone's hang up. Maybe it is yours.
Eva: oh, interesting. I think you and I [00:59:00] have the same, similar hang up in that way but I feel like my resistance is,
Eva: the way that I read it for me is that, yeah, I have the story if I need to get somewhere, but that's just a trauma response to my. Deepest darkest fear, which is that I'm not safe because of like past abuse that I had as a kid.
Eva: So like I'm like, everything that I do in my life is seriously, like, a hyper-vigilant, not everything, but all the control stuff. It's my hyper-vigilant way of being like
Eva: it's like, my lizard brain. it's not even c conscious, you know? it's like, animal brain in survival mode be like safety, safety, like whatever.
Eva: And, and also I equate success or arrival as safety because then it means that I'm,
Eva: whatever it means I've arrived, I don't know, it means I, I'm worthy or I can be seen, blah, blah, blah, blah,
Kyley: finally are safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eva: So, but it is like a sp all of that all of my desires and all of my like,
Eva: That is [01:00:00] all related to safety, because I can tell every time I ask myself, I'm like what's going on here?
Eva: I'm like, oh, I just, I'm just hysterical right now. I'm just like, really freaked out, even if it's quiet, like my, my little self is.
Eva: like almost hysterical, but like in a subtle way. Um,
Eva: and I will say the choiceless thing is coming up because I've resigned the fact that like, I might just be like this my entire life until I die and then get reincarnated into a different version of myself. like it's nice that I you know, I, I wake up and then I fall asleep. I wake up and then I fall asleep. So it's almost like I have these moments of huge
Eva: peace and, and
Eva: like, I see things clearly and I'm like oh, I, I get it. like, like you were saying, I am, you know, I, I'm just here to touch grass and, and drink cold water and enjoy that.
Eva: But then I fall back asleep
Eva: and I think, I do wonder, Like, I do [01:01:00]
Eva: wonder if so someday, like, the suffering of this bullshit is gonna drive me crazy enough, or I'm just gonna be, fuck it. like I don't wanna do this anymore and then maybe I'll be ready. But if I were ready, it would've happened already. Do you know what I mean? like, meaning when I say it would happen already, meaning if this all would've already gone away, this wouldn't be an issue.
Eva: And I will say there have been times in my life, you know, like, I'm sure we all can relate, like in my teens and then in my twenties, where I struggled with something so much and I just assumed I was always gonna be, this way.
Eva: And then one day it just like fell off and I was like, I don't know how this happened, but like I used to be really fucking messy and I worried that I was gonna be messy my entire life because I was like I don't know how to change this. And then it just changed. So there's also a way, I
Kyley: has not changed for me. am messy. I am committed to that path.
Eva: I mean there are tons of things that I still, you know, hold true, like my anxiety or you know, whatever that, that are still there. But [01:02:00] there are, but I know, you know, you've spoken of things that without efforting so hard, it was just time. Like it just changed and maybe it was choiceless.
Kyley: Mm.
Victoria: There was, there was a second part of the surrender piece that I feel like I didn't, I have more thoughts on. Um, I think it's like a, what's the right way to put this? Like, we like to think that we can like, choose to surrender when we want to surrender because things are hard and like we should just know, that it's time to surrender, but like surrender is actually, there's nothing else I can do and I'm just like, Thrown my hands are like, open and it's like, take me.
Victoria: Right. And I feel like even what you were saying before about like things just dropping off, like this is a really silly example, but it just dropped [01:03:00] in of like, you know, when, when I was like 15 I wanted to like date the hot guy and then I like, you know, had whatever. experiences that like, didn't work out the way I wanted and then there was nothing left to do and like, I wanted something different, you know, of like Yeah. just um, the, the folly that like we can choose to get to surrender when we want to as opposed to when it chooses us.
Kyley: Well, I love this so much. Yeah. Surrender is not even a thing that you do. It just happens to you. Oh,
Eva: Uh,
Kyley: I just blown our minds.
Eva: yeah, podcast listeners. Kylie and I are just
Eva: over here like, I
Eva: don't know. I have my, like, face my hands and
Eva: my,
Kyley: I have tears in my eyes.
Eva: And I have like my, my face and my hands. Cause I'm just like, oh, this is So I, I love
Victoria: is so fun.
Eva: Yeah.
Eva: No, it's great. But like this idea, I love this idea that surrender chooses us. like [01:04:00] the, the idea. It's all, it's all hilarious. It goes back to the silliness of like, oh, haha. like you think you choose when to surrender, but that's just another illusion of like, that's something that you control. I, I, I, and and all of this just actually feels like, it does though, actually, I think make me feel more comfortable with surrendering, as in just
Eva: don't need to fucking try so hard.
Eva: Don't need to like control so much. Don't need to effort so much. Don't need to worry so much.
Eva: Just kind of let life happen
Eva: for me
Victoria: Yeah,
Eva: again, easier said than done.
Victoria: there
Kyley: am re Oh, go ahead.
Victoria: no, no. Go ahead, I wanna hear, I wanna hear what you're gonna say.
Kyley: Oh, just, I'm just relishing this so much. This reminder, just like what I'm feeling in this moment is the way in which sometimes I think about how everything is infinite. like, [01:05:00] every, every individual experience, right? So I've spoken for the podcast about like shame itself being actually like there's infinite depths of it, right? There's infinite show joy, there's infinite, and I'm experiencing right now, like,
Kyley: and the idea of surrender itself is infinite.
Kyley: But also I often find when I've like. When I like peel back to like peek at like the next, the next layer down, right? I'm like, oh, this isn't what I expected. That's another thing that comes back to me a lot is like, it's never, it's like, like a phrase that dropped in for me once during a really profound experience.
Kyley: Like it's never what you think it is. and I'm having a little bit of that, that you're comment around, like basically like Eva talks about the universe breathing us And like surrender Like just like surrender, like, like surrender almost. Like surrender is a grace that arrives, right, rather than a thing that you do feels like another [01:06:00] layer of like, it's not what you. think it is.
Kyley: Once again, like su surprise and delight. Ha ha ha. And I'm just really relishing that experience.
Victoria: Yeah. I'm glad you said that first cuz I was gonna just another facet, cause part of me was like man, okay, like let's grab this Human Victoria time urgency. One like time related thing that I've personally been sitting with is like, and this doesn't, I don't know, I feel like it can be really heavy for some people around like age and milestones of like, oh, I'm 30 so this should have happened.
Victoria: I'm 40 so this should have happened and I don't. Feel, I wanna say I don't feel like it's been super heavy in my life. That said, um, just given, you know, all of these different life transitions that I've gone through in the last like three or so years, I have been sitting with like, okay, what would it feel like if, as I consider like new [01:07:00] chapters and options and whatever.
Victoria: What if I was 25 again? Like, or what if I had just graduated college? Not in a like, you know, trying to pretend things are, were a different way, but just like that.
Victoria: sort of beginner's mind and using age as a way to reset to like, okay, if there isn't any specific milestone attached to a certain age, but I can kind of show up to life now with that same sort of like, the stakes aren't as high as you think they are, right.
Victoria: To go back to like, we think we should be somewhere that feeling like if the stakes, if you can like reset where you think the stakes should be, like how does that. Create more space. So that's something more like practical maybe that, to respond to that part of your question,
Eva: Whoa.
Kyley: I like that a lot.
Eva: I like that a lot. I think I'm one of those people who actually like gets really stuck in age and like, milestones And like sh shoulds and,
Victoria: do you, you don't strike me. I mean, I don't feel like I've [01:08:00] heard you, you know, like, like
Eva: I think it's something that I like. I actively, I think it's something I actively push back against because I feel like, it's there, so
Eva: it, yeah. Um, And probably less so than before. Yeah. I'd say I yeah, maybe in a way as I get older,
Eva: less so, but I think it's still always there a little bit. Um, but that is so, so that's why I love what you said. it's like a playground of like, Yeah. There's a lot of freedom. I think when I ask myself that question of like,
Victoria: mm-hmm.
Eva: yeah.
Eva: Um,
Victoria: Yeah, cuz it's always gonna be that way, right? Like, you know, you know, it's like there's um, people are like, oh, I look at pictures of myself when I was like in high school and I wish I could just tell her like, you were beautiful then you weren't too fat, or whatever. And it's like, that'll be true when I'm like 50 looking back at 30 year old version of me. so yeah, part of that thought process for [01:09:00] me was like, why can't I just do that now?
Eva: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think about that all the fucking time. Like it's true now. and it's true now, And it's true now. and it's true now. Like,
Kyley: I had um, I had this really beautiful conversation with a good friend of mine who will be on the show soon and listens to the show. So, hi Ellen, if you listen to this one. and um, and we were,
Kyley: she gave me such a gift cuz I, I, I do get, I'm very ambitious and so I get,
Kyley: I get hung up on age in terms of like, uh, it's like. an impatience of it's really about like, will I get there Right? And so I get hung up on age sometimes, um,
Kyley: from that perspective.
Kyley: Um, and I say that ambitious, like it's just, it's a thing that I've like, come to like, pretend for a while I pretended it wasn't true. Then I was embarrassed of it? And now I'm just Like I'm just a hungry motherfucker. It's just true.
Kyley: Right?
Eva: Which I
Kyley: But anyway.
Eva: [01:10:00] I love. I think I love your. It's just funny cause I would've never thought that that was something to be embarrassed about. Especially for better or worse, because our society like does celebrate it and that doesn't
Kyley: Well I think that was part of why I was embarrassed because it. because when I was younger it brought a lot of suffering cuz it was really attached to like, the thing that I was hungry for was other people's approval. so it was ambitious for like my boss's approval or you know, a client test, whatever.
Kyley: Well it's like a, a, you know, a a corporate customer to like, me or whatever. and um, but now, now my hunger feels more deeply rooted to like, oh, like I'm ambitious to like Yeah. Anyways, it's, it's, it's evolved in a way that feels more nourishing. So, um, um, but anyway, my, my, my friend, my friend Ellen is, is older than me, and she made some comment about like, loving the show and then said, and you're, and you're also so young, and like, [01:11:00] I'm really excited for all the ways, like you. get to like, continue evolving and figuring, figuring out, you know, you in the world.
Kyley: And it was just that it was a thing that I didn't know, I needed to hear, you know what I mean? Because, uh, but in that moment I felt so nourished because of course I'm young and I'm also old, right? Like, right to Like, my 20 year old cousin. I'm old and, to Ellen, I'm young and, and right. I like, it was such a gift of like, perspective that, oh, there's so much time to like, Unquote figure out or like to make the art.
Kyley: Right. Because I've also been playing a lot with like, what if this is all just my art? Um, and um, yeah, it just, it just felt like one of those moments that was like, oh, I didn't know? that I needed to hear that until I heard it. And so thank you
Eva: Yeah. And I gain, you shared that with me and I gained from it too. Yeah. Cause it's perspective. We forget, [01:12:00] we like, yeah. We totally forget. what else is feeling alive for you, Victoria? Anything else?
Victoria: I feel like, I feel like that was some big stuff. I don't know.
Eva: Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah.
Kyley: I this question's half formed, But I'm wondering if you shared this beautiful thing about integrity and evolution of you and your business, um, in the beginning. And I'm wondering how kinda surrender and choiceless weaves in there for you.
Victoria: Wow. Thank you for the question. The question I didn't know?
Victoria: I wanted to be asked. Okay, So, Wait, can you ask it one more time? Cuz it was like, deep and head of reaction, but my conscious brain wasn't really
Kyley: yeah,
Kyley: yeah, yeah. Sure. Thanks. Sure thing. So you spoke in the beginning about, um, integrity and the evolution of, you as a, as a business owner in your business. and then you shared about like [01:13:00] Surrender and and So I'm curious how surrender and choiceless shows up in that evolution.
Victoria: Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah. So as my sense of what feels like interesting and alive and like what I wanna share in the business as that has evolved, um, my ego mind has hated it. It's, it's been like, this is terrible. Like, and I guess to like, give me maybe a little more context. Um, to me, what I kind of now refer to in my inner psyche as like version 1.0 of my human design offerings was like, What I was excited, what, what, like 20 19, 20 20 me was excited about.
Victoria: And I mean, I still think that, I mean, I, I love human design. I was like, called into it. Um, but so much of what I was doing kind of in earlier versions was teaching about like the system [01:14:00] and telling people like, this is who you are and this is your, you. know, your purpose, whatever. And those things are, I mean, I still do that.
Victoria: Um, but it started to feel, but yeah, it started to feel like it was justing at the surface. And I started to feel like a slot machine where it
Victoria: was like party trick. Like, tell me about myself.
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: tell me about yourself. And, and I still do that, but I, what has evolved is that's a doorway into how can you be with yourself completely?
Victoria: How can you be with life no matter how it is, right? So, Um, you know, even, even I met in a context where we were talking about like, What's the frequency with which we iue our businesses? And so to me, like human design is just the, the thing that I, that I tell you I do. So you have a way to come into me, right?
Victoria: But what we actually do, the alchemy of Yeah, Coming into full acceptance of everything that is, and what happens when you bump up against limitation and how do you handle [01:15:00] that? Like, and then that's me pulling in like my decade with like the nervous system and somatics and all these other things, right?
Victoria: Like that's really what the business is about. And I didn't know that in 2020. In 2021, now I know it. Um, but it's required. I mean, one, it's been choiceless because Human Victoria is like, but it worked the old way. Worked like, and, and she's honestly been, um, very upset that I can't get myself to write, you know, like two posts a week about.
Victoria: Five, like love letter to a generator. Like, like, and you know, I did those, I nothing, again, nothing wrong with them, but that's not interesting to, I guess, the business anymore because something else wants to come through. But, um, I don't fully know what that is yet. Right. And so there's massive surrender in allowing [01:16:00] self and business to evolve and it's felt very choiceless because, and I know that because she doesn't like it.
Victoria: Um, and that's okay because in, to go back to the question that we opened with of like what something life's teaching you, and I said like, wow, there's been some gifts and feeling stuck. It's like, yeah, like, and ironically like being stuck is like part of my design and like part of my purpose, lol. Um, because people come to me and they're like, tell me my purpose.
Victoria: Right? And some people in Hume design have really beautiful sounding things like. Vessel of love, you're here to just show everybody the love in the world. But then there are people that have crosses like the cross of tension, the cross of conflict, minus the cross of limitation. So like, you know, if I were to like deal with me as a client and she was like, what's my purpose?
Victoria: I'd be like, well, and, and here's the big one. How do I do it? And it's like, you don't need to do [01:17:00] your purpose. Like for me, I come up across and bump up across limitation all the time. I naturally will have periods where I feel stuck. But in the stuckness is the forging of my ability to face change, my ability to be with what is difficult.
Victoria: And I mean, who knows how it's gonna look right? I knock on wood, have a lot of life left. Um, but that purpose is just unfolding as I exist as I be. So that's been choiceless
Kyley: Mm.
Victoria: and.
Kyley: I love this so much. And I also just wanna witness you in the mock of being stuck because I think especially when it is like a creative soul nourishing project, like our businesses have the Tempe and also our source of stability, like it can feel so. Difficult to be patient with ourselves in that process. [01:18:00] And um, but I I I so I'm like an idea person, right? One three, like that's my whole friend. A friend once was like oh, you're a mad scientist. And that like, just tucked right into my heart, right? Um, and I witnessed this a lot with, um, with like with ideas, right? What I hear you speaking to is like, there's something new that's coming, some new iteration of you some new offer, in the world, some new like way of embodying and expressing your art and your work And your wisdom. and also, like, It's not cooked yet. it's just not cooked yet. and I think I get so ja, I like, feel like, giddy get jazzed for you. Because even as I'm like oh, I know that place of like, you know, feeling, uh, I know that place of feeling like stuck and impatient And just like, oh, the wheels won't turn. And, or like the wheels are in the mud And, they're like, just like [01:19:00] spitting.
Kyley: You know? And I also feel so jazzed for you because I know, oh, like those are when the best fucking ideas are being cooked. You know, the ones that just like come from that, like, just like this deep embodiment of like, being in something and then allowing it to reveal itself to. you. I I realize now I'm just like waxing poetic about ideas, but I just can't help but feel both like deep compassion and like truly jazzed and excited.
Kyley: Um, for this moment that you're speaking to.
Kyley: Yeah. I can't wait to see what it births.
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. And like, maybe cuz as I was listening to That I was like, I wanna just add a little more in terms of like practicalities, like I, like I feel fully baked,
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: so, it's like people who wanna come work one-on-one and in sessions like that feels really good. It's more I felt stuck because like these [01:20:00] big group programs and like that
Kyley: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: that's where the integrity piece comes in.
Victoria: Cuz I'm like, oh, I don't wanna just do a program at the surface. I don't even know if I wanna do a program, if it's just to like do a program. But like the frequency and the, like, I'm so much more clear on what this system is and what it has to offer beyond the, the tool as a subtle form of bypass.
Kyley: Mm
Victoria: Um, I'm like, let's go. like uh, you know.
Victoria: and, and the people that have come through my doors in the last, let's call it like four to six months, I'm like, whoa, this is like a new level of person, you know,
Kyley: mm.
Victoria: So, yeah. I think there's like more to come, but also like, it's very interesting to watch myself not, I mean, sure the mental temptation to squeeze it out is still there, but like there's way less actually acting on it.
Kyley: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also love, I think that's also what happens [01:21:00] when we're
Kyley: like, the deeper we are embodying our wisdom, right? Like we can be in a state of,
Kyley: and perhaps this isn't your language and your moment, but I find myself often like, in a state of actively dissolving while also still having this like deep wisdom and space holding available, right? So like some part of me is like oh, this some old way of doing business or holding space is dying off. And also
Kyley: it no longer has to be this process. Like, stop the train. Everything has to stop, right? Because it's like, like, there's a. Yeah,
Kyley: A level of like
Kyley: yeah, like a level of depth that, I have access to.
Kyley: And I feel like I, so I hear you speaking to, that's like, yeah, like these people are coming in and it's like a next level, um, like fit and also something is like, churning in the background and, um, I don't know. I'm, [01:22:00] I'm I, just can't help. I just am getting all, I just am feeling this like sense of excitement, just like
Kyley: everything you're speaking to.
Victoria: Thank you. I'll take it.
Eva: I, I was, actually more stuck on something completely different that you had said Victoria, in, in that
Eva: chair, about how like version
Eva: one or version, what did you call it, 1.0 of your business or how you were doing human design is like mad at the version of you now because you're like, well, you can't do it.
Eva: Why can't you do it the way that you were doing before? And also it worked, right? Um,
Eva: that just, I saw myself so much in that it like was very, you gave me language for something that I feel like I've been experiencing a lot of this idea of like,
Eva: you know, because I'm in transition And because I'm,
Eva: um,
Eva: I'm, I'm, I'm given this opportunity where I'm in this space where I can create kind of a new life and I've been doing a lot of [01:23:00] reflection around like,
Eva: what do I want now and who am I now? and now that this part of my life has died off, what's gonna be birth, blah, blah, blah.
Eva: And
Eva: I find myself, maybe it's cuz that's the only point of reference that I have. I think That's why reinvention And recreation really needs to be an act of creativity And not just looking back towards your old references, but I have these conversations of like well before I was dating Adam or back in my twenties, or I, did this or I did this, and ex I can see that like young version of me expecting my almost 40 year old version of me to Also, be like, to be like that or like ha or to have my body be a certain way.
Eva: Like, Like, I'm not as like physically strong as I used to be. And I have this expectation that there's just, that I'm just, there's just so much comparison into like the whatever Eva. I wouldn't call it 1.0 but much earlier version of that
Eva: And yeah, she's, she doesn't wanna die, but she's, she's already dick, she's already like, there's [01:24:00] no going back to that.
Eva: I can't, there's no going back to that. And even trying, I think is, I can tell that it's not right because it just feels shitty. It, there's like a dissonance, there's a, um, it's exhausting. It's not where I'm meant to go. And so this, again, maybe bringing this back to like how our lives are like an art, cuz it is a recreation of something and it, and I think it's, it ha when I think of creativity, it's like really using your imagination to create something new and fresh.
Eva: And I don't know if this makes sense. That's kind of, that's where I kind of feel like I am right now and I'm just really noticing, calling out that
Eva: I don't wanna have to go back to Eva 1.0 or whatever version that was.
Kyley: Hmm. Even as we love her. Yeah.
Eva: Yeah. Well, I
Kyley: is. She is not.
Kyley: yeah.
Kyley: She's not in charge anymore. Yeah. Oh yeah. I love that. [01:25:00]
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Yeah.
Eva: I mean, and really simply put even to listeners, I wonder if there have to be, I can't be the only one. I imagine this is a common thing where people go back and compare themselves to their old version of themselves. Sometimes it's like their old version of cells was shitier and now you've like evolved so much that you're like, oh, look at my child, how much I've grown.
Eva: But I also do hear the story, especially as we get older, this idea of like, oh, but in my, when I was younger, I did this and that was really good and I wanna like get back to that. And maybe it's, it's not that you, it's, it's just more of a, starting from where you are now, or recreation from where you are now.
Eva: Does that make sense?
Kyley: I mean, I also see this a lot. Yes. and I, I see this a lot in like, um,
Kyley: like I see this a lot In like business coaching, right? It's like well, my audience, you know, is used to I always did X or I always had this offer, or I always, you know, grew like showed up at Instagram in my main space and I hate Instagram now, and I'm to, it's totally [01:26:00] vapping the life for me, but also like, it's what I've always done And that there's this, like the death that's happening and then there's this, process of like, but it, it used to work until I can't let it die.
Kyley: And so there's this, I I, I'm in I'm guilty of it myself and I watch it happen a lot. It's like, like you said, like it's actually already dead. You are holding onto something that isn't alive anymore.
Kyley: And uh,
Eva: sorry to. interject, but that's the interesting piece is like it is actually already dead. Like it's dead and we're just trying to
Eva: like, it's interesting like cuz. I don't know if we already noticed that it's dead, but it's dead and you're just trying to hold onto it
Eva: because I think the moment
Kyley: there's some confusion.
Eva: yeah.
Eva: The moment like it's not working, it's already gone.
Kyley: Yes. But I also think part of the confusion is like knowing what is dead, right? like okay, this is such a small example, but I will just share transparently like my, my business, like ex like it started in Facebook and in this [01:27:00] beautiful Facebook group. and like all of my customers, like really beautiful relationships, really great community, was like in this Facebook group group
Kyley: and it's not the place anymore.
Kyley: And I find I can feel in my body when I show up on Facebook, I'm like, when I go just to go to like, put the post up, there's like this like kinda like heaviness in my body And
Kyley: like some grief around like, what? the space was. And some of it is just Like, algorithm. Some of it is like Instagram feels more fun, right?
Kyley: Like whatever, whatever. And so I know that there is a death that is like actively happening for like the Kylie who had a phase. like it's just, it's a tiny thing. And also part of me isn't clear is like, is the death that like I just let go of control, that this is an important place, is the death that I kill it off entirely.
Kyley: Like so there's also this phase of like I know that something is dying, but I also don't actually know what it is. So, which in this moment I'm like, oh, and this goes back to the choiceless. [01:28:00] It's Like, I could stop figuring it out. I could just let it show me what is, what is actually dying.
Victoria: Yeah.
Kyley: thanks. There's, that's, yeah.
Victoria: I, when you said that, I just think of like in a relationship when you know it's about to end, but it's not time to break up yet. That period I feel like for me is like so hard. It's like, okay, no, what's coming? Like, can I just be there? But it's like, wait, like, and can I be okay being there too?
Kyley: That's beautiful. Yeah.
Eva: Yeah. Wow. Whoa,
Victoria: Eva was like, yep, I know.
Eva: I know, but actually the thing is, it's not just my recent split, it's that's been every breakup I've ever had, every breakup I've ever. had. When I think about it, there was always a moment where I was like, where I knew way before it actually happened And I didn't wanna know, but it already, it was like that, the moment that came in, it was already done.
Eva: It was done. like, you, It's so funny when you think about it, it was already, and [01:29:00] I, and I've been, and then I've been in that in between phase, that limbo phase where I'm like I thought like fuck, I know it's already done, but we're not broken up yet, and so now we just gotta ride this piece out.
Eva: Because, because,
Victoria: but
Victoria: but the limbo phase was like perfect,
Eva: that was exactly, it wasn't bad.
Eva: And, and to be clear, when I say like it was already done, I didn't consciously necessarily know, but it, just,
Eva: looking back, it's like it was So clear that like
Eva: it cou Yeah, it choiceless it couldn't have been anything else but that process. Yeah, this choiceless thing is really interesting.
Victoria: I mean, here's the thing, right? Like this is another trope like. Or how does it go? It's like some version of like the universe has your back. It happened exactly the way it's meant to happen. Okay. If we really believe that, and I really do, and we can look back at the past and be like, hindsight is 2020. It all worked out the way it's meant to. That also applies going forward. so [01:30:00] like everything in the future that we're like worried about or like, I don't know, like maybe that's the wrong thing. That's also gonna happen the way it's meant to. I don't know. For me when I
Eva: my body doesn't like that my body's like no, no, no. that can't be true. I I can control that
Kyley: Yeah.
Victoria: But do you see the like logical fallacy cuz if I believe that's true for everything that passed and how could it not be true going forward? And when I caught myself on that, I was like, oh shit.
Kyley: yeah, I can feel like worry as just like this pal that's like, please don't make me go away.
Victoria: Yeah.
Kyley: observing. Like I, it's funny, so I shared before we hit record that I had acupuncture for the first time today and it was so
Eva: our acupuncture stories. We'll get, we'll get to them. I'm glad you brought that up. Okay, sorry.
Kyley: It was so great. No, it's okay. But it, one of the things that was really profound as I like fell into the deepest sleep in the world for my 20 minutes of me and all poked with [01:31:00] pins was, um, I could observe with such clarity that.
Kyley: I am not mine.
Kyley: It was this really great experience of like, oh, I am this body. Hey Bob. Right? I just could like, I could just actually witness how much mind is just like this, like, you know, we know this. Then we have these moments where we can actually experience that Mind is just this like thin veneer on the top and it was really crystal clear for this moment and I was so grateful for that.
Kyley: And that is like coming back now again as you're speaking up to like the kind of inevitable choiceless grace of the future and worry is like, But what do we do if we don't have a job? you know, like we have one job on the ship and we're really good at it, and it's worry, [01:32:00] AKA your narration, right? Same.
Kyley: Same. And so like what do you mean everything's gonna be fine? So that's just interesting to observe.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Worry. That's drama.
Kyley: Yes. Oh, everyone's in like drama costumes now.
Eva: Oh my God. Yeah. and, the mind loves drama, you know, it's like, it's entertaining and it's, it is true. I do think sometimes like I will observe my mind and I'm like, oh, I, I, I choose this because I know this, but also because,
Eva: yeah, for a plethora of reasons. Also, the, the question of like, what do you do if, who, Kylie, and I feel like this has come up a lot with the two of us recently.
Eva: Like, who am I? If I, if I'm not this or who, what do I do if I don't worry? It's like, we don't even know. It's like this death and that,
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: I think that's ex, that's that question is exactly it. That's the question. Like, I don't know, maybe that's, that's [01:33:00] the journey of figuring it out. Like that's the quest.
Eva: That's the, that's the fun of it. It's like, um, I don't know. Go answer that question. Like, yeah, who are you? If you're not, you know, who am I, Eva, if I'm not, I don't know, whatever. What am I really identified with? Um, Someone who needs to get somewhere, then it's like, then what do I do? But, um, I think that, I think what I do come back to is like, I don't have to do anything.
Eva: I don't do any, it was like, whatever I fucking wanna go do right now. Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah. Reduce joy.
Eva: Yeah. I think So. How you feeling, Victoria? Was there anything that we, that we didn't ask that we should have or that you would've liked us to?
Victoria: I don't think so. I had no like agenda, you know what I mean? Like personal agenda. It was just to show up and have a great conversation with you both, which I feel like we have
Eva: Yeah.[01:34:00]
Kyley: Check.
Eva: Yes. Check and. Yeah, just, um, I had no idea where this conversation was gonna go to and I'm, I am not surprised that this is how it went. like you bringing your energy. I think the, yeah, this is, this is like my kind of conversation, so, um, so grateful for the, for both of you. Um, alright, so we're gonna do joy.
Eva: What is one thing that's bringing you joy right now, Victoria?
Victoria: Oh, I had two things. Is that okay?
Eva: Oh my God, yes. The more the
Victoria: Okay. Um, the first one is I'm back in California and being able to go to the farmer's market here, like, ugh, just there's like one stand that has the best produce. In particular, there's something called arugula, which is like mature arugula with the flower attached. And just like being able to get little specialty things, which, you know, I grew up in [01:35:00] California, so this is like my standard having been gone for two, three years, it's like, oh yes, I'm back.
Victoria: And like the oral Blancos and like the local avocados. Anyway, so that's been great. And then on the personal practice level, even as this, I've been getting really into breath work and that has been moving so much stuff in my system, um, and related to what I've been talking about, just like accepting it all.
Victoria: I have been having cry orgasms, which I didn't know you could have, but that's been really fun. Where
Eva: Yes. You're gonna have to. Are gonna have
Victoria: I not looking at?
Eva: huh?
Victoria: Yeah, yeah. Okay. I guess I didn't go into that much detail with you, Eva. So, um, yeah, like some of the breath work I've been doing has been specifically around. grief and feeling like my body processed that
Kyley: um,
Victoria: know, a cry will, like a cry will sort of like in the same way, like you inhale [01:36:00] and then you exhale.
Victoria: Or like for people that have like done M D M A and like you feel your body rolling, it's like that exhale feeling. The cry will exhale and then turn into like this warmth, kundalini like body rolling sensation. And I just didn't even know that could happen. And the paradox of like, you know, I've had teachers or whoever tell me like, or ask like, can you find like this sweetness in the pain?
Victoria: And again, like me not that long ago would be like, what? Like, no, no, this is just bad. This just feels bad. But so to experience that has been like so profound.
Kyley: yeah, that's really exquisite.
Eva: Yeah. That's beautiful. And I would love to talk to you more about breath work at some point. Kylie, have you ever tried breath work?
Kyley: Like, um, a little bit here or there, but nothing. Um, like early in my early I did, and I remember just being like, I fucking hate this. [01:37:00] And I've done it a little bit since then, but nothing super, um, nothing was like that deep or was that much like structure rapid. So it's something I'm interested in, but I could also feel I have a lot, I have like a lot of resistance to it in a way that I'm like, oh, you'll be fun someday.
Eva: yeah,
Kyley: Like, you know, there's like enough resistance that's like, oh, there's something here.
Eva: yeah. I have. I have yet to really try it. So maybe one day. Um, Anyway, uh, Kylie, would you like to share your joy?
Kyley: sure. Yeah. So, uh, I'm visiting my family in Maine this week. Kids were on vacation and so we're all up here and my mom has two dogs. My brother has three dogs and my mom is watching her brother's dog. So there's basically like six dogs around.
Eva: Oh my gosh, that sounds like an amazing mad house in the best
Kyley: Oh my God. Plus my two [01:38:00] kids. They, my kids are just like beside themselves with happiness. Like they love these dogs so much, obviously. And my uncle's dog, my mom's watching is literally named Happy because it's the happy dog ever. Oh my God. They're just so cute. And she's like literally like, like, like herd of children and dogs.
Kyley: It's just like running back and forth this huge house.
Eva: Oh, that is so cute.
Kyley: it's. It's just really cute. They're really sweet and it's, and I just love watching how much my kids, like my son get like so excited to feed me and he's like, is it time? He is like, he's such a Capricorn. He's like, it gets really excited to like be industrious and then birdie, my little PEs dreamer gets really excited to pretend to be a dog with them.
Kyley: So she is a dog named Lucky Star and she goes, whoop, whoop. And oh my God, that's so cute. So that's what's bringing Joy. Joy,
Eva: Love it.
Victoria: That sounds so nice. A dog pack. Ugh, dream.
Eva: Yeah, it does
Kyley: Yeah. And they're, [01:39:00] none of them are small also, like they are all like medium to large dogs, which is just extra hilarious.
Eva: yeah, you showed me some pictures. Oh, I love a fucking black lab. Like, so freaking cute. I'm actually just caught by this new information that I, I maybe knew but did not put all together. I knew that Desi is a Capricorn and Bernie's a Pisces, so that's gonna be an interesting, that's,
Kyley: Yes. Well, also, Desi has a. Des, he has a Pisces moon, so he is like very, very tender and sensitive with his like industrious. Um, you know, he's, he's a,
Eva: Aw, I love that. I love that.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then by birdie, it's moon sign is Leo. So she's just like, everybody love me. And also I can, I'll just scream if I need to.
Eva: yeah, yeah. Powerhouse right there. Um, okay. I will share my joy. Uh, actually my joy's kind of a [01:40:00] double edged sword. It's i'll, yeah. I'm not exactly sure how you feel about, there is some joy there for sure. And I think you both know, I know Kylie know. Cause I talk about like this, my undying love for food. Um, always I think.
Eva: I think my joy is that I've been cooking more because in my old relationship with Adam, he was the chef. He cooked everything. He went to the supermarket, he, which was gr which was great actually. Like, like never having to go to the supermarket and just have like, food up here is a wonderful thing. Um, but I did know that in that time I felt more disconnected from food because I think there is something to, like, I, I used to love cooking.
Eva: I used to love Yeah. Just there, there, yeah. To be connected to food. I think the cooking process can feel really important, like an important part of that. So I say it's a double-edged sword because I do think that sometimes, um, food could be a huge pain in the ass. Like, I eat three meals a day, so like I gotta [01:41:00] have three meals a day.
Eva: That's a lot of food to like feed a person. And I also look forward to eating every day. Um, but yeah, so more cooking is a thing that's made me joy. It's also more time consuming. Um, but I love going to the supermarket, like the supermarket's a joyful place for me. And it could be like stressful cause I'm like, which I like price compare and blah, blah, blah.
Eva: And I, my Capricorn brain does that. But anyway, overall, I think this is a very good thing and I'm, I'm happy to get back to something that I knew was missing for a while.
Kyley: Oh, I love that.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: All right, Victoria, where can people find you? How can they work with you?
Victoria: Yeah, well I am on Instagram, Victoria Jane dot hd and I would say if you go there, sign up for my email newsletter, cuz I think that's feeling like this space where I can just share without having to, without it being quite such a heavy lift. And yeah, if you [01:42:00] wanna work one-on-one or. Chat and do a session about human design.
Victoria: I'm here for it and, uh, there will be some group stuff coming out, which you'll find out about by email. So if you're curious to learn how the end of the story goes, or at least the next chapter, that's where you can find me.
Eva: Exciting. I'm very excited. That's awesome. Yay.
Kyley: Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.
Eva: Oh my God, this is so much fun.