What does it mean to live in deep devotion to your practice, your higher-self (even when she surprises you), and an ever-evolving spiritual practice? Join us for this rich and nuanced conversation with DeVante Love to find out!
What does it mean to live in deep devotion to your practice, your higher-self (even when she surprises you), and an ever-evolving spiritual practice? Join us for this rich and nuanced conversation with DeVante Love to find out!
DeVante's Instagram -
https://www.instagram.com/avatardevante/
SURRENDER MAGICK
https://www.ravenandmerope.com/surrender-magic - Doors close 2/2
Retreat information - https://www.theworkwithtom.com/9-16-march-brazil.html
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
Book a discovery call with Eva
Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
Kyley's free mini-course
Eva: [00:00:00]
Hello, wonderful humans who we appreciate and adore so much. Welcome to another episode of hello universe, where we discuss what it's like to be. Well, human. And I was, I was gonna say what it's like to be spiritual, but I think being human is actually inherently spiritual. Um, we're really excited to share with you this week's episode with monk Devante Love.
Um, Devante was actually a friend of Kylie's and we had asked them to be on our show maybe like years ago and it finally got to happen. And I'm [00:01:00] so delighted like over the moon because Turns out not surprisingly, you know, Devontae is fun and it's just really like their energy is what I appreciated most like the minute we started talking.
I was like, Oh, this is going to be good. Devontae is someone who's so deeply committed to their spiritual practices, but also. down to earth and fun and sexy and thoughtful and more so than anything that we talked about. I think, and you know, you know, if you're here, you know, our conversations are, um, freewheeling and usually we have no idea where we're going to go.
So much more than what we talked about, it was more just the connection and, um, Like the embodied presence of Devante that I think is going to come through in this conversation. Um, so before we jump in, I want to share with you a little bit about some things that Kylie and I are sharing. So I want to take a moment to really hype Kylie's [00:02:00] program that's starting on February 12th, I think.
Um, surrender magic, which if you listen to hell universe, you know, that we talk about how surrender truly is the whole game. And that can mean so many things because surrender in itself is a really deep unwielding topic that could be applied to every aspect of our life. And Kylie has been going through her own huge initiation learning process.
doing the damn thing of actually surrendering more and more deeply. And she's taken me along in the journey in various ways. And so now she's offering this class because this is the medicine that she's living and it's pay what you can, donation based, six weeks long. Of I think really potent, like teaching and magic.
And I know there's already been a bunch of people who've signed up, which is great. Cause that always makes it a really fun experience. [00:03:00] So, you know, if you want to, I want to say like, if you want to deepen your spiritual journey, but really if you're in any kind of suffering or confusion or just ready to experience Life in a completely with a quality.
I think of a completely different that might be just bigger and richer I really highly recommend that you sign up for surrender magic. You can do that. Go to our website go to their Instagram I've joined I have told my friends to join. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun Um, as for me, uh, I've been, you know, teasing here and there and, and hopefully at some point we'll dive into a whole episode about it, but I am moving to Brazil in, at this point three weeks and, um, life has at the moment is incredibly full.
I am at capacity with the people that I am working with. There's just a lot going on, but I'm really excited to open up my one on one services again, once I land in Brazil [00:04:00] and I just. Oh my God. I think the energy and, um, the, the magic of the place that I will be living is going to just imbue me with all of the, uh, what would I call it?
Imbue me with this energy that I know that I feel when I'm just deeply connected with myself and nature and God. And I want to be able to share that with you all. So if you're interested in working with me one on one and I'm at capacity right now, you could, um, send me an. Email and get on the wait list or send me a message on Instagram.
Okay, friends. All right. So, um, monk Devante love, uh, we talk a little bit about weather magic, what it was like for him to move into, you know, colder weather after being sort of a nomad, um, ritual movement as practice, which is a big piece of his, of their work. And also [00:05:00] lipstick. And what it's like to, um, really trust our own self, I think against what other people might continue to say, see as, I don't know, crazy or different, or, you know, how to this ongoing process that we're continuously exploring is like how to be trust and connect with ourselves in a world that might continuously tell us that we're wrong or that, um, we're crazy.
All right. Enjoy the episode. We love you. Devante, welcome to the show. We're so happy to have
DeVante: you here. Oh, thank you for having me here. It feels divine and beautiful.
Eva: Yeah, so we'll just jump in with, you know, our first question, which is what is life
DeVante: teaching you right now?
Um, so I just moved to Boston actually, and I'm getting used to the weather and it's Strange. I've lived in different parts of the world, but for some reason this [00:06:00] Boston colds is very different. So, what I'm learning right now is to accept the weather patterns and adjust with them, and not be as resistant to the storms, like the literal storms and the cold and the random warm days.
To not worry and like complain about it, but to be with the weather and see how the weather is sort of teaching me. How to be, how to exist, how to feel and yeah, just living with the weather instead of in resistance to it because it's constantly around and we can't really control it. Well, we can to some extent, but how beautiful is it to let the weather just be what it needs to be.
Eva: Okay. Listeners. I am currently wearing a hat with a blanket on my lap because I also live in Boston and it's fucking cold. Uh huh. So I love this deeply. Um, I mean, I, I [00:07:00] also, I love, I love the energy of being with the weather and I'm obviously thinking of like metaphorical storms, like the emotional storms, but I also really love this invitation that, that is not just a metaphor that actually the, um, Yeah, the weather's inconsistency is an invitation to just be with it.
Right. To practice surrender, actually, Kylie, which is like your big medicine right now. But I was trying to, I was trying to vary my language and not immediately try to give us like at least 90 seconds before, you know, we always end up going there real quick. But I will say Devante. I think about this all the fucking time, because weather is a really big deal to me, actually.
So it's funny that you're speaking to this. And I feel like this is where my, I mean, I'm joking here because I don't feel this self critical, but like, this is where my spiritual practice sucks. Because weather, I don't understand how people don't, like weather to me dictates [00:08:00] so much. It's like, it's everything.
It's atmosphere. It's mood. It's lighting. It's. It's like the world that we all live in and like, this is a big deal. And so I spend a lot of my time like, so I I've heard Jack Kornfield, like a meditation teacher say, like fighting against the weather is silly because you're, you're resisting reality. And anytime we fight reality is when we suffer.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. But like, I can't accept shitty weather. I need, I need, I feel like I've based my life around trying to be in good weather. And so I don't know, just to say that it's a big practice for me. You know what I'm appreciating about this conversation. So I have lived in New England my whole life.
And so the inconsistency of New England, whether the like, you know, mopiness of our winter, um, I actually don't give myself credit for how it's like not particularly easeful. Right. And so, which is very standard for me, like, no, no, this is fine. This is fine. And then in retrospect, I was like, that was not fine, [00:09:00] which is, which is, um, I guess someone coming into.
Like basically as you're talking about the weather being inconsistent and that being like confusing and the weather being cold, some part of my brain was like, Oh, that's right. We have been cold. Huh? It has been confusing. Like I haven't. And so you're speaking to the practice of like not controlling it, but I'm also receiving like the compassion of not allowing it acknowledging when it is actually hard is another kind of compassion.
That can go alongside, like, don't control, but also don't, maybe don't pretend that it's sunny and rosy when it's not. Yeah.
DeVante: Yeah. Yeah. I, I will say to that regard, like one of my like special abilities is to sort of control the weather in some way. So I travel very often and every time I travel, people are like, wow, [00:10:00] the weather is, is unusually sunny or it's really hot today for some reason.
And then when I leave, it goes back to whatever it is. So like, in some ways I feel that because every time I travel, like I bring good weather. Um, but now I'm not in a place where I can change the weather. And not necessarily like, I intentionally do it, but I don't want to. I want to embrace the, the bitter cold, the, the strange slushiness and the, the way people's behavior starts to shift.
They get a little bit more cold and, and like quick with each other. Um, but also more supportive in kind of an interesting sort of, Um, dual way. So it's been fun to explore and just like accept what is here because this is, this is different. This is different for
Eva: me. Okay. I am just, I'm going to get real niche for a second, but I am so excited for a very particular day that will come for you in the future, which is.
In Boston, we're kind of known for being assholes, even though I think we also are tremendously warm. I'm biased. I think we're assholes. Yes, [00:11:00] exactly. You were, we tell you, you know exactly what you're getting with us. There is a day that happens in Boston and you notice it in the city more than in the suburbs.
That is the first truly, truly, truly warm spring day. Not the like kind of spring day. That's like, Oh, hope might be, we might be almost out of it. It's like the day where like, no one's wearing a coat and it's sunny and you're happy. And it is like, Musical number in the
DeVante: streets. Like high school
Eva: musical.
Yes. Yes. Like everybody is just like smiling to each other and like, basically like skipping and high fiving down the street. And it is one of my, I miss it living in the suburbs. It is one of my favorite days of the year. And you don't know when it's going to come and it just, and all of a sudden one day you'll be like, it'll be like 11 o'clock in the morning and you'll be like, it's that day.
It's that day that happened. We're all so happy. And so I am just really excited for you to get to experience this. And it. Almost makes the whole Lonely Cold Winter worth it, I think. Uh, I know that vibe. I think probably most East Coast. [00:12:00] Philly, I'm sure, must have, and New York. Philly, New York, yeah, like East Coast gets that.
And I just, I want my favorite day. Of the year is truly is like in New York. It was like marathon week or day when people run a marathon. And also what I call like, slutty skirt day, which is the best day because everyone is fucking out in their little dudes and their boots. And it's still, by the way, probably like 50 degrees, but it feels warm because it was previously 30 degrees.
And I'm just like, yes, work, work, work. Like everyone just looks, it's just out and looks fierce. And I, yeah, it almost makes it all worth it. I hear what you're saying. So you said you also said a, a brief comment that is one of the many things that I was excited to have you on the show to discuss. So you mentioned, you know, you do feel like you have the relationship to influencing weather.
And in particular, one of the things that I admire about you is that my sense is that you are someone who. Has a deeply mystical relationship with existing in a way that [00:13:00] I think a lot of our online discourse about spirituality is a kind of like reaching for performative, like, look at this cool thing I can do, or like the grasping for the cool thing that we want to like manifest or create right?
There's a, there's a hunger to be magical or mystical in a way that I think often ends up kind of, um, uh, grasping or, or, or shallow. And I don't mean that to put us down. I just think it's like, it's just the energy of it. It's there. Yeah. And I feel like you, you strike me as someone who has profound mystical experience with the world first and then occasionally shows up online.
Which I, I love, um, and I'm curious if you, and so I think honestly, just totally selfishly, I was like, yeah, can we just talk about being magical when like from a magic first [00:14:00]
DeVante: place? I love that. Hmm. That feels nice to have, uh, to be seen in that way, honestly. Thank you. Um,
yeah, I've, I've been in this world of magic since I was like, about four years old, and that's sort of all I can really remember, is like, hearing the voice of like, It felt like the voice of God, and the voice was kind of like crackly as if God was going through puberty, but like God was speaking to me and he told me to like, like, get out of the house for some reason.
So like I, I got out of the house and I ran around or whatever. And I fell into like this like bush and the bush like was very warm and comforting and I was like, Oh, okay. You know, here's me listening to this particular voice. Um, And then I, since then, I, I keep hearing this voice, you know, over and over telling me to do things, to say things to people, to, and it encourages me to do, [00:15:00] um, to push me out of my comfort zone.
And that's kind of how I live. I live with that particular voice. And I've now identified that voice to be like different gods and goddesses and, um, just energies and frequencies. Um, And that's kind of just how I operate. I operate very much like how water in a creek flows like there's the rocks that surround it and the water just flows through and through and maybe it'll hit a rock, it'll go around a rock, but that's just kind of how I operate.
And then me deciding to show up in public is kind of an interesting move because I've always seen myself as a ninja. So I'll do all the spiritual work, you know, in the shadows and not intentionally not be seen. But there's those few moments that I do show up. And for me right now, that's me coming on social media and starting to create a presence extremely slowly and organically because again, I'm a ninja I pop in and then I leave.
And when I retreat, I go really deep into my spiritual practice. And I'm [00:16:00] out forward. I want to bring about change for people. I want to teach people very simple ways that they can, like, have a life that is a little bit more juicy, a little bit more exciting, a little bit more, you know, like a tango with the imagination.
Um, that's what I want for people because for me it's been beautiful. Um, so I'm just trying to bring a little bit of that spiritual curiosity, awe, wonder, connection with nature, um, introspection. I'm just trying to bring those elements into people's lives. And. It's, it's not easy, um, and I think it's absolutely beautiful.
Eva: So yeah. What was that like for you as a kid? Did you feel, um, did it feel easy to like trust and be in a relationship with this voice or did it feel like it marked you as different? Did it feel confusing?
DeVante: You know, I think as a [00:17:00] child, um, I was afraid of the voice maybe around like eight or nine because I learned what schizophrenia was and people had told me oh this is when you are hearing voices in your head and they're telling you to do bad things and I'm like I hear voices but they're telling me good things they're telling me to you know walk on the other side of the street or walk backwards or you know do this random dance move here and there like it's not you Disturbing anything.
It's just, it feels like me being me. And I realized that's just like, this voice is coming from somewhere deep within. It's ancestral, it's soul, it's, um, emotions, it's, um, impulses, it's energy. And it's just like, guiding me. And so I struggled with this idea of schizophrenia and what that means. Um, and then every time I was confused, I would just go out into nature and be like, okay, what's what's going on here?
Um, and I would get the sign, like, you know, I'd be sitting in the [00:18:00] grass at midnight because I'm very much a night owl. And then all of a sudden, the moon just like randomly appears very bright, as if there are no clouds in the sky. But I remember it being kind of a cloud. And then once I acknowledge it, the moon disappears, like all these clouds sort of come like magically.
And I'm like, okay, okay, we are on some path because I feel seen, I feel connected, I feel heard. Um, so it wasn't easy, but. I'm happy to be where I am now.
Eva: Yeah. Oh, I love, love, love this story. It's making me think of moments. Eva, did you ever have moments like this where you were a kid? Like I, I, I had a, I had some moments where I, in particular, um, I also, I grew up Catholic, so I felt very close to the blessed mother.
Um, and I had moments where I felt very clearly like she was talking to me and then it would be like, Oh, you're fucking nuts. I didn't say fuck because I was seven, but like, um, uh, And I remember like, I [00:19:00] would basically like negotiate with God. I would be like, okay, if this is real, I remember there was a whole phase where I was afraid that I had to pray out loud.
I thought that I had to like perform prayer. And I remember being like, look. Here's what we're going to do. If I can pray in my, in my head and you can hear me, then I want X, Y, and Z to happen tomorrow. And if I have to do this whole thing out loud, then let A, B, and C happen. I think I've had that same conversation.
God's probably like, Oh, this conversation again. Okay. Yeah. Right.
DeVante: Right.
Eva: Yeah. Then God would be like, here's X, Y, and Z in all capital letters. Like you're good kid. You don't have to talk out loud. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say my, you know what's so funny? I had, I definitely had moments like these and they were so, I think when you're a kid, they're just who you are.
It's normal. It's, it's, it's magic. It's in it. And, and, and there, and there's no separation between the [00:20:00] magic because that's just like the world that we exist in. And it's only in hindsight, when I look back that I'm like, Hmm, I guess I don't, I don't have a story of it being weird. I suppose I just. It just feels like, but, but, but, but I will say, I don't feel like I had, this wasn't an ongoing thing for me.
It mostly came out of moments of like desperation. I think when I was going through a hard time and conversing with God, but looking, yeah, I never had a story of it being weird because it just felt so normal at the time. And then. And then I forgot because then I like, yeah, I fell asleep and, and, and all these things.
But looking back now, it's like, yeah, that, I think that's what people mean when they talk about, for me anyway. And, and Devante doesn't seem like you have that separation 'cause you've been living, you continue to live in this space. But for me, I think that's what people mean when they say, like, when you're a kid, you remember or you know, and then sometimes we just forget,
DeVante: you know?
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. That's interesting. [00:21:00] I. So I grew up as an only child, um, and I've got a beautiful stepbrother when I was like 21 years old. So now I have like an older brother, um, which, which feels beautiful. Like I love him so much, but I grew up in an only child and I grew up with just me and my mom. So I was alone a lot.
And When I was alone as a child, I remember like talking to my plants or talking to the birds that were sort of flying on like the, the, the fence. And there were these three birds that I feel like they were these like gossip birds. They just wanted to like come and like chat for a little bit. They trip, trip, trip, and they fly away.
They come back, they trip, trip, trip, and fly away. So I have these like distinctive memories of me like talking to, um, the life that was around me. Even I talked to like trees, I talked to fences, I talked to like a lot of things. Um, so I wanted, I wanted this connection with something else beyond myself.
And I knew that there's something around me. [00:22:00] And so this constant pursuit of like seeking a sibling, seeking a voice, seeking communication, I think, um, really kept me in that particular space. So it does feel natural. And it's only when I talk to other people that I realize it's not natural. Um, I have many stories of like me being with my ex and he would just say like the weirdest things.
He's like, you, the way you think is just so, it's so different. Um, like if someone, On the outside was looking at like the way that I was living. They would think that I'm like, I'm just like the strangest person ever. He's like, you would wake up and then you would like, leave the bed to go to a mat and go back to sleep.
Of course, I'm waking up to go meditate and go back into the dream world and connect with animals and all that. But he's thinking, I'm just getting out of bed and I'm going back to sleep. And then I'm rolling around and I'm going back to sleep. And then I'm going outside and I'm sitting in silence. And, you know, with Bloom to the plants and the animals.
So yeah, the way that I live, according to like, maybe the, the norm, [00:23:00] the norms of society is like very different. And it just feels so natural to me.
Eva: I love that. Oh, go ahead. I have so many questions, actually. Go ahead. Let me, let me think. Okay, hold on. Um. It's way. I'm going to do this thing that we do on the podcast, which is a little messy, which I'm going to just blurt out a bunch of things.
And then you can respond to the part that feels like what you want. Yeah. Choose your own adventure. The first piece is more of a comment, which is it's like, Oh, this is helping me understand. I think what you, what you meant earlier when you said helping people live a juicier life, because I'm like, Oh, well, I don't know.
That's my question. Maybe that's the question. Does, is this what you mean by when you say helping people live a more juicy life, bringing juiciness into life, which is a deeper connection with all things. That's like question number one. And then question number two is. Um, how do you navigate, and I'm asking this for myself, how [00:24:00] do you navigate, you know, seeing the world so differently, like moving through the world so differently and not feeling crazy?
Maybe that's my question because Kylie knows my biggest thing is like, I'm so, the deeper I go into my spiritual journey, and I think this is probably true for most people, there's a, there's that, my fear is going crazy, or there's a fine line really between, between being really in touch with God, and being quote unquote insane.
And sometimes I'm like, I don't even know if they're actually different. But, you know, like, I mean, I could go on about this forever, but I think you get where I'm going.
DeVante: So,
yes, this is, in terms of like, living a juicier life, I think it's, I, I encourage people to live with their imagination, with the recognition that there's, [00:25:00] Life all around them and what does it mean to be a part of that life to contribute to that life to interact with that life? Um, because, you know, even just sitting where we are, we're somehow contributing to the larger ecosystem and the ecosystem is contributing to us.
And when you recognize that, does that mean you are more careful where you smoke a cigarette or maybe you decide not to smoke a cigarette or, um. You know, just the, the kind of things that you have around you, whatever it might be. Um, just thinking of like a mundane example, but I think to the second part of that question, um,
I don't know if I've ever felt crazy, um, which is kind of an interesting thing. I, I think just because I have a strong sense of, Their audience and being able to see or being able to hear, like, sort of the things that are unsaid. So when I hear people say certain things, I can kind of [00:26:00] hear, um, the colors of what they're saying, and to hear something's trustworthy or not trustworthy, um, or to kind of hear the truth behind what is being said.
So. I think every time I hear these voices and I hear these ideas, they radiate this frequency of love and care and concern. Um, I can tell when it radiates a frequency of like harm and danger and threat. And I choose not to engage with those particular like psychic sounds that are coming toward me. I recognize them and I I sort of sometimes trace their source, but I, I move them out of the way.
Um, so I think because I've developed such like a sensitivity to the frequency of what I'm sensing that I'm able to trust it more. And I don't feel crazy because I know that if I'm saying something, it's. It's meaningful. It's useful. I don't need to know why, um, society will make me think I need to know why, especially being who I am, who is like clearly a [00:27:00] minority being a black, queer, indigenous person, um, people will make me think that I'm wrong or strange or what have you, but, but as long as it feels authentic and natural and true to me, then it's an, it's an offer a contribution to the world.
Then I don't have to worry about how the world's perceiving me because I. know the foundation, the source of what, where I'm coming from. Does that make sense? I'm like, I'm, I'm spurting, but yes, I hope that makes sense.
Eva: Oh no, please spurt away. Cause that's juicy medicine right there. I mean, that's, that's, that's, I think what I.
I needed to hear. And, and I think that also oftentimes when you said that, I mean, I'm going to have to spend some time with this on my own, but like, uh, the, the truth is whenever I feel quote unquote crazy, it's usually probably just a [00:28:00] response to how I How I worry that I'm being perceived by other people has nothing to do with like my own inner self.
But you know, what you're demonstrating is like a sense of sovereignty of just being really in your own lane. And so I think create this idea of craziness can only exist. I think, I don't know how to think about this more when, when I'm,
when I'm thinking about how I'm perceived by others or something like that, or comparing myself to some sort of status quo,
Kyley: et cetera, et cetera. One of the things that I really loved about your answer is that I was feeling into, um, what truth feels like for me. You were talking about being clear audience and like being able to, excuse me, good thing you got that water. Um, Like, being able to, like, understand the rich, the many layers of what you're hearing, and my corollary for that is, [00:29:00] like, is, is a, is, is really sen, sensory based, and I know the feeling in my body of truth, right?
Whether it's my truth, or, or the truth, or, like, receiving truth from somebody else, right? I know, I just know the feeling of truth and love and safety in my body, and so, When some, you know, invitation rises up, whether it's, you know, feels like it's coming from, you know, a, a God energy or my own heart or something else, some invitation from a person, it's that feeling in my body that.
That, that is, um, uh, that's like an, I don't want to use, I don't want to use the word anchor, but it's that feeling that I know what truth feels like. And so I don't have to worry that I'm crazy because I don't, I don't have this particular insecurity the way you do. Right. Um, and so what I'm kind of wondering.
And you might not have an, you probably don't have an answer to this right now, but what does [00:30:00] truth feel like for you in your body and what does it look like when you are like in trusting relationship with that and then. When you have those moments, when that insecurity around crazy shows up, you're like, Oh, wait, I know, I know the button that I press, right?
Like I go to this place where truth lives. Is truth here? Oh, no, truth isn't here. Anxiety is here. Okay. Well, maybe that, right? Um. So that's one observation. And then the other thing is I had a moment this week where I actually said to myself, I'm losing my goddamn mind.
Eva: What
Kyley: was interesting is. Uh, so I launched Surrender Magic, which, if you haven't heard yet, is my, like, new root program.
It's six weeks. It's donation based payment. It's, I can't wait for it to start. And, um, if you start, if you have been living deeply Surrender Medicine, like, more [00:31:00] intensely than ever before for two months, and then you launch a program called Surrender, like, Life is going to get like, right. Like I had like four days of just like being shown really beautifully, like, um, big places where I was still refusing to surrender.
Right. Um, and so I had this moment where I was like, I was in the shower and I was like, basically like in, I was watching myself have like five. Conversations with various projections, right? Like, like every conversation was not with a real person, right? They were just like imagination. They were like multiples of the same person, but different projections of them.
Right. And I was just like, like turning from one to the other. And I thought of that Eckhart Tolle quote, like I was like, this is insane. And I, and I was, it was, I was watching how much I was just. Like in a spiral. Right. And I wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't like a scary spiral because [00:32:00] it was just like, okay, this is what's happening right now.
Like, this is me processing fear. And in particular, it was like, I was, a spotlight was being shown on like, yeah, control is misery. Right. And, and so. What I wanted to point out is that for me, when I have moments of feeling like I'm insane or like I'm crazy or like I'm losing touch with quote unquote reality, um, it's actually about control.
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And, and it's about, and so to, to the point of like, what are other people thinking about me? That feels like it's about trying to control that. But, um, but for me, it's like when that is showing up, it's like it's. It's like, maybe, maybe I am hearing the voice of God, but then I'm trying to control how it shows up and what I do with it.
Right. As opposed to like. Being in surrender. Yeah,
DeVante: I think kind of going back to maybe how we started like,
so [00:33:00] I did see that Kylie you're working on the surrender magic, which I'm like, I love this concept because for me, the way that I, I've been approaching that. Um, like my surrender looks like becoming my soft drag persona, which is, um, she's slowly developing out into the world, which is absolutely beautiful.
Um, so surrendering into her image, into her expression, into her, her being, um, has been an interesting process. And for me, it's literally been just this. adapting to the weather patterns that I've been moving through. Um, so prior to here I was in New Orleans for a week for a conference and then before that I was in San Diego and before that I was in like the Bay Area.
Um, so I've been in different climates and unusual weather, weather patterns for each place. Um, and for me to just surrender to the fact that I'm here. I have all the clothes that I have. I'm going to somehow make it [00:34:00] work. I'm going to create outfits somehow in this weather. But like, how can I embrace the weather and still express, you know, my, this like, this hard femme version of me that, that, that's presenting themselves.
That doesn't want to wear LL Bean duck
Kyley: boots?
DeVante: No! No.
Eva: That is so funny. Yeah, that is the vibe. That is the vibe of these kids that we know it is.
DeVante: It is. But like, no, for someone who grew up on like near the beach who enjoys like heels. No, that's just the opposite. But you know, making that adjustment has been very interesting.
Surrendering to the fact that I can't wear heels on a snowy day in Boston, you know, We'll make it work.
Kyley: I relate to this on so many levels. And I also, I think what I am really relishing about this conversation is, um, that things like the shoes you put on your feet [00:35:00] is part of, is like just as much spiritual practice as like talking to your, talking to God and being God, right. That, that, that there's, um, uh, there's a way it can, we can want to separate these. Like I recently, I have these two. Really gaudy, big rings. Um, and every time I wear them, I just feel like, I feel bigger, I feel more ostentatious.
I just feel more like myself, right? More like my god self. And so I've started placing them on my altar. Instead of my little jewelry drawer, I've been placing them on my altar when I take them off at night. As my like, When I wear these, some part of me remembers that she is love and loved and God, and so I put them on my altar and I feel like I'm like charging them each day, each night to then put them back on and be like, Yeah, that's right, bitch, I'm God.
I'm great. Um, and so, yeah, I'm relishing your, what you're saying about, I personally relate to the plight [00:36:00] and I'm relishing what you're sharing. Um, and I'm, and I'm, and so the follow up, I think I have a question if you would, if you feel like sharing a little bit more, what that journey looks like outside of Boston weather issues of the like spiritual play of, Letting this part of you kind of softly reveal herself or themself the
DeVante: spiritual play.
I like that phrase. I'm going to use that in my research. Somehow. Um,
Kyley: someone, someone gave that to me that just popped in.
DeVante: So it's, it's here. It's here. It's arrived. Thank you. Um, because for me. play is about moving in an undefined direction, um, not having a goal for what it's supposed to be, not having these sort of standards and ideas, but just moving towards something.
And The commitment that I'm making toward her is that I'm going to, like, [00:37:00] become, like, 1 percent a little bit more like her each day. And so what tiny little action can I take to actually do that? Um, maybe it's a matter of, like, deciding to go to the store and buy a brand new lipstick, and that is the action.
Or maybe it's just going to the store and, like, thinking about lipstick. Maybe that's the action. But, like, what are these small ways that I can bring her Through the world that I can invite her into the world. And how can I cultivate myself? So I'm a safe vessel for her to arrive. I think that's kind of the biggest thing that I'm working through right now in terms of my spiritual practice and recognizing what I can and cannot do anymore in order to be like a good vessel for her to be able to move through me.
Um, that's kind of the reckoning that I'm in right now, to be honest, because I've been in the midst of. Um, spiritual trainings for probably about 25 years and I'm sort of questioning the kinds [00:38:00] of practices that I've been doing and like refreshing and like renewing everything through this lens that I'm currently like working through now because I'm, um.
I'm training to be a Buddhist Lama at the moment. And I'm really, it's interesting to understand these Buddhist principles and kind of apply them, apply them to everything that I've been practicing my entire life, finding that structure, which is a little strange for, for me, but I'm, I'm slowly making my way through it.
Um, but even like within my spiritual practice, there's, there's a, I used to have a very long daily practice, um, which is about maybe an hour and a half or two hours long that consisted of like Kung Fu and meditation, um. Actually, that's all it was, was Kung Fu and meditation, because at that point I was, um, training, um, to do, like, international Kung Fu competitions.
And so that, each day of training, I felt like I was becoming more and more of who I was. And now, when I look at me trying to become more like her, she's different. And so I have to [00:39:00] shift the way that I engage in my practices. Um, So that's kind of the journey that I'm on now, is like, how does my spiritual practice match my development and my, my discovery of this being that's, that's constantly trying to move through me.
And so, so there's that. And I think the other major element is The way that I feed myself and like what I put into my body, um, because the food that we're eating is charged with a lot of energy. It's charged with thoughts and intention. And honestly, in the U. S. and many parts of the world, the food that we have is just has so much like sadness and trauma.
That's like. handled through it. So what does it mean to like intentionally bless the food to remove or to purify, cleanse, um, to recycle that, that deeply harsh traumatic energy so that the food I'm eating brings me life. Um, and so what ingredients do I need to eat in order to make that happen? How do I go about these blessings?
And so that's also been a [00:40:00] very interesting thing for me. So it's really my spiritual practice and like my eating practice. And those two things are like my things in the world. Cause I love to meditate and I love to eat. So I'll see things
Eva: we'd be really good friends. Those are like my two things
DeVante: too.
Yes.
Eva: Um, wait, can I ask a follow up question? And I love what you said about how part of this is also making sure that you're a safe vessel for her to arrive and to come out. And I'm curious if you could give our listeners, maybe an example, um, of. Yeah. How you do what that means for you. And I, and I like, that's something that we do on the podcast is like to take something maybe abstract and to make it more tangible, like what for you just specifically, what, how do you make yourself a safe vessel for you to fully arrive in all of your forms?
DeVante: I realized that being, um, as I was going through this world as a child, as a [00:41:00] teenager, I compromised so many aspects of myself in order to be safe. Um, so I had to lie to people in order to keep myself safe. I had to, um, and treat people like harshly and mean in order to keep myself safe. Um, and I needed to do that in those moments.
I needed to, um, say some mean things to make this girl who was bullying me cry so that she would stop bullying me because it's, it got to be to a point where it was really harming my mental health and I needed to adjust that situation. Um, and so
the ways in which I was inauthentic to myself, um, In order to be safe, I mean, to be a queer person, to be a black person, um, to be gay in this world is just, it's not easy. And so because of that, I, I struggled a lot in those past [00:42:00] moments. And so part of my practice right now is revisiting those moments.
Giving myself forgiveness, loving kindness, and realizing like, you know what, Devontae? Of everything that happened, you know, you made the best decision that you could at that time. And The more that I, I believe that and I feel into that, I sort of become safer to myself and I become safer to other people because I can see them when they've also been in the darkness and done things that are not very kind to themselves or to other people because, you know, we always talk about this.
victim paradigm, but we're also perpetrators, um, in many ways of our life and people don't talk about that. Um, and so I recognize like, how am I being harmful to myself and others and how can I forgive that person and recognize that because I've taken that second to forgive this aspect of myself, I don't need to bring that aspect of myself into the future.
So I don't need to be dishonest about every tiny little thing in order to [00:43:00] maintain this image or this mask anymore. Um, so. Yeah, it's very much about returning to spaces of me being inauthentic, and I think a large part of that also, I'll just add, is just the conditioning, the way societies condition behaviors, thoughts, ideas, ways of dressing, ways of eating, ways of being onto us.
And the more that I remove that conditioning, you know, the way that I remove that conditioning is going back into the past and realizing when I've been inauthentic to myself and working through that is helping me to decondition these, um, scripts that I've. download it and embed it into my being. Um, so yeah, just, you know, going through and like cleaning my files and enjoying myself is, is, is how I'm making sure that I become a safer vessel for her to exist in this world.
Cause this world is going to be scary for her also. So I kind of feel like I'm kind of a big brother [00:44:00] in a way to prepare her for this scary world. That's not going to treat her as nicely as, as I am.
Eva: What a beautiful answer. Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, um, I just really appreciate how, uh, you're modeling for us.
I mean, the real thing like this is like, this is a practice that you are actually doing committed to. And I'm just hearing really it's the medicine of compassion is like the big piece of it. And yeah, going back to anyway, I just felt like all of that. Yeah, I'm really glad I asked that question. I feel like, you know, that's like a, a solid thing that people can go to when they're like, I would really love that.
And how, and we all have our own ways that we can practice more compassion with ourselves and going back and, um, rewriting our stories and our mistakes. And I love you talking about how we're oftentimes [00:45:00] also the perpetrator . That's, I agree. We don't talk about that enough anyway, so thank you. That was.
Beautiful.
Kyley: Yeah. Can I ask a question of both of you, which is, um, and then Eva, I have a little bit more of a sense of this, but so I'll start with you, Devante, like what's your, what's your, um, what does your practice look like that invites you back to that place? And the reason I'm asking that question is because I think sometimes.
We don't know why we're doing what we're doing, right? We don't know what the origin is, where the self abandonment, you know, pattern started or whatever.
DeVante: Hmm. You know, I'm, I'm very happy this podcast is happening today, um, in terms of what we're recording it today. Um, and I'm happy that you asked that, um, [00:46:00] because I am still trying to figure that out for myself right now. You know, I, this month, actually, the start of this month, I was like, look, Devontae, You have maybe about, I think I counted, I have maybe like 800 different spiritual practices.
Um, so many different kinds of qigong forms or martial arts forms or different types of meditations, different types of mantras, and I have so many different practices. And I'm like, okay, and these are practices that I've trained in that I've, that were given to me by trusted people that I've been doing for so long.
And I'm like, well, what? is actually helpful. Like what is actually effective out of all these things that you've learned? What's actually helpful, um, to help me return to that particular space. And I created my, my brand new daily training thing, um, yesterday, actually, and I ran through it today. And I was just like, this is exactly what I need.
It's literally [00:47:00] like a 10 part one hour training thing that gets me into that place. And really each part of it gets me deeper and deeper into that place. Um, So I have an exact answer because it's, it's developed and it feels live and, um, it, it, it was, I had a beautiful day today. I had an amazing, amazing day because of that.
Cause I, I was operating from that place and people could tell and everything was sort of gravitating toward me. Like opportunities came to me and people gave me things and I'm like, okay, I can just sit here and receive the beauty that that's coming to me because I'm, I'm in this. space of authenticity and I'm operating at a frequency where people are recirculating things through me, um, that I desire.
So the, I think the core thing is, um, for me, movement movement is just like everything [00:48:00] movement with some sort of sound. And every time that I move my body, listening to a specific sound, and it could be a mantra, it could be a specific song. It could be my own humming. Um, but moving with sound, I can feel where the sound is not vibrating.
like back. It's sort of like, like a bat and their, their echo chamber. That's not the right word. Um, their radar location. There you go. Echo chamber or something else. Um, echolocation. Yeah. That's sort of like echolocation ability. So when I'm dancing, I can hear the way the waves are vibrating through my body and I can sort of feel.
Where it's not landing or where that sound sort of shifts. So I guess that kind of goes back to like my clear audient abilities when me being able to hear that particular aspect. Um, so it's like sound and movement. And then when I feel a sound is off, I sort of go into stillness and I speak with that, that element and I say, okay, what, what do you want to teach me?
And then I get an image, usually it's [00:49:00] an image, I get an image or some sort of like sound or thought or emotion that comes up. And then I just move with that thought and emotion and whatever it is. And then it sort of unfolds and I kind of get longer memories and then I can like write it down and sort of work with it.
Um. So it's the oscillation between movement and stillness. And I think a lot of the times meditation practices are so focused on stillness, and our fitness world is so focused on, on movement. But what is it like to oscillate between the two? And For me, that's where I like find that sort of center place, even like oscillating, going back and forth.
It's sort of like a pendulum pendulums like this.
Kyley: I've literally started doing that while we're talking. My body just was like, yeah, we're into this back and forth. Exactly.
DeVante: Exactly. It's like rocking and rocking. You're moving, but you're finding that sort of still point in the middle. Um, so I work with the image of.
The infinity symbol a [00:50:00] lot. And so sometimes I like circle my body in that infinity symbol. When I reach the middle, I find stillness and I continue in the movement. Um, so I guess working with the infinity symbol, however, that means to people, I think is 1 beautiful way to begin to return to that place. Um, because we're always in that place.
It's it's infinity. We have instant access to that version of ourselves. That dimension that that feeling that frequency, it's all in that beautiful little continual sign.
Eva: That's awesome. That's fucking dope. Yeah, that sounds like a like, that would be a really fun practice to learn.
Kyley: Yeah, my I'm I know why I, I never asked people on the show about their spiritual practice. And I basically almost three separate times asked you explicitly, but you either answered it or like, it just kept coming in to be like, ask him about a spiritual practice.
[00:51:00] Um, Which is, which is delightful. And in particular, one of the things that's been showing up for me a lot lately is, um, how much. My personal experience with being in a body is that my body was not a safe place to be. And so for a long, long time, it was just like, we are a head in a jar, we are an academic, like body what?
And, um, and for, for, for years now, it's been the journey of like, what, my body being a safe place to be, right? And I actually had this experience, uh, maybe it was like two years ago. Where I was like running or doing some kind of exercise and for the first time like I've run half marathons before right but for the first time running didn't feel like emotional sludge, right, it was like I what I watched was, oh, all of those decades where I would resist.
Exercise wasn't because I was lazy. It was because actually I was drowning in shame. Like that was, that was getting like [00:52:00] released from my body every time it was on an elliptical and I didn't understand that. So I just avoided the whole thing. Um, and I had this really amazing experience of like, Oh, if you're, it turns out if you've.
If you aren't reasoning in shame and also have greater resilience for when your body does need to feel that, um, uh, or whatever other kind of trapped emotions there are, like moving your body is actually this delightfully joyful thing. Go figure. Um, and, and so that has been its own great thing. Um, but then in particular lately.
And this has been like only in the past couple of months that it's been really, really obvious is how much I need to move to be, to be in the spiritual, like to have the spiritual, um, to fall to the depth that I want to fall. My body is very clearly asking me to move to exactly as you're saying, right?
That, that, um, that that's the request that's coming [00:53:00] through. Um, And it is a little confusing for me, right? Because I had, I don't, you know, and that's okay. Uh, I'm up for the confusion, but I'm, you're, you're offering me something really, um, really beautiful. Like it's like, it's like I have like a seed got planted and you're showing me what the oak tree looks like or what the forest looks like.
And I feel really actually just got tears in my eyes. I feel that was, that was a gift. I didn't know I needed. So thanks. Thanks friend.
DeVante: That's a really beautiful image. Um, thank you for offering that, that back. I, you know, you sharing that is also a reminder to me that I threw out my entire life. My body also didn't feel safe. Um, I always describe myself as like I was a blimp when I was a child. I was like severely overweight. Um, people perceive me as being like very [00:54:00] dangerous.
And so I had to sort of adjust the way that I like interacted with people because I was like this big black boy. Um, and so I didn't feel safe in my body. I didn't feel appreciated in my body at all. And it took me a while to get to a place where I love the way that I'm, that I present myself naturally, the way my body moves in space, the way it responds back to me.
I, I love this conversation that I have with my body now. And I think I'm only able to do what I do now in terms of sort of that movement to relate to spirit, because I have that acceptance of my body. If I didn't have that, then. I don't think this practice would work. I think that's kind of a, a, a little prerequisite for people who are trying to get into sort of spiritual movement is to.
And you don't have to fully love your body, but just be in a practice of loving your body more and more. Um, so if you're working toward that, then any sort of spiritual movement will be helpful and effective. But if [00:55:00] not, it might be harmful or just might be neutral. I'm not sure.
Kyley: Or it might show you, I mean, one of the things for me is often that my body will show me where the pain is still living.
Yeah. So I start moving my body in an intention, that's what would happen when I would exercise, right? My body was like, great, here's all the emotions. That are trapped in your, in your tummy or in your hips. And then I was like, I don't know what to do with this. We're, we're all done exercising for four months, you know?
Um, but like my body was very lovingly communicating. Like this is where the release, um, lives. Um, and I think, and I, and now that still happens for me, but now I, now I, it's a language that I have learned to speak right. And so, um, but in particular for me too, because spiritual was my spiritual. Experiences are often somatic, right?
Like the Claire sentience is the like [00:56:00] loudest for me. And so it's also really, it's like, it feels like this beautiful, long homecoming, right? It's like, we, it's like, like we, we, we talked to the best gift in, but you had, now you, you had to figure out how to unwrap it, you know? Hmm.
Eva: Um, I feel like we could truly talk forever.
Like I am just loving the flow of this conversation and your energy Devante, but I also want to be mindful. I know you've been traveling a lot and, um, you know, we talked about making sure that you get some rest tonight. So, um, I don't know, is there anything else that we didn't ask that you would like to dive into before we start doing our closing
DeVante: rituals?
Yeah. I mean, the construct of time, like me and father time have had like divorces. We got married, we got divorced, like we're forever divorced. Um, so time is always so strange to me. Wow. This feels like we've only been here for [00:57:00] like 10 minutes. Um, is there anything else? The thing that I, I think I want to name to maybe like take some of the nuggets that I've noticed have been coming from our conversation, what I've shared and what you all have sort of supplemented and move it into a pile. I see, I see all these little acorns and I kind of want to sweep them up into like, like a tiny little pile so I can get like messy.
Um, is like, for me, this communication that I have with. nature with the environment with people. It's all, they're all languages that I've learned to speak. Um, and I speak now five different human type languages and, and I'm, but I feel most fluent in this sort of spiritual language. Um, and the more that I speak it, the more that I interact with.
Spirit with the [00:58:00] invisible, I feel this very strong sense of peace. Um, and specifically like what I'm really focused on right now is what does it mean to have inner peace? Um, and I think this is so important because we're in a very tumultuous time in this world. Um, and it's gonna get harder for a little bit and then it'll get better at some point, but we're in a difficult moment.
Um, And I always think to myself, how am I bringing about change in this particular world? And if I'm so turbulent on the inside, if I'm like stuck in my own monsoons of anxiety, my earthquakes of stress, my, um, wildfires of, um, obsession, let's say, if I'm stuck in these particular things, how am I able to bring about Peace or not even peace.
How am I able to bring about change in this world? Like, you know, they say hurt people hurt people. So if I, if I'm bringing all my hurt into these spaces of other hurt people, then [00:59:00] I'm just further hurting them. So I realized that part of my contribution to society right now is to continue these practices.
So I have this sense of inner peace and with this inner peace, I can then go out and then help put out the fires, the storms, the, um, The, the floods that are existing sort of around me, um, and so that's what I'm really focused on. And I've been navigating a lot of storms in my life lately, um, since maybe November.
It's been very stormy, stormy skies in, in, in my world, um, and being in my practices. continually bring me to the space of inner peace and I'm so grateful to them for that. Um, and it makes me even more excited to then share these practices later on when I, when the skies have started to clear a little bit more.
Um, I'll be sharing them and I'm really excited to do that because [01:00:00] we're in hard times, like it's, it's really scary. Um, and so I want to help people. That's why I do what I do, um, that's why I connect with people like you two who I feel are really trying to, you know, do your own work and also your own inner work and also at the same time have some sort of really strong impact on the people you interact with and the different means you interact with people.
And so building this network of other people who are committed to
the kind of change that I see, that I truly believe in, it's a beautiful thing. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm very grateful for this connection that we're having. Um, it's just solidifying for me where I am in my practice and it's reminding me that I have great people around me that understand and support and are doing the same work through their own beautiful.
rainbow tonic color, whatever way they're doing it. Yeah. [01:01:00]
Eva: Thank you. I mean, I actually think we usually ask this at the end, but this is a good segue into maybe,
Kyley: uh,
Eva: how can people work with you and how can people find
Kyley: you?
DeVante: Um, great question. So, you know, okay. The other thing is I, I love being so connected to the.
The seasons and being in Boston, there are four seasons here. Did you know that there are four seasons? We do have all four.
Kyley: We do have all
Eva: four. Quite emphatically.
DeVante: And I'm like, wow, this is new. So I'm currently in like my, my winter phase where I'm sort of in my cave. I don't talk to very many people. I'm just like really deep in my practice in this like hermit mode.
So winter times, I think I'm going to always be unavailable during winter time. And then spring is when I start to introduce, like, something new outward into the world. So, um, in the spring, I will be back on social media, um, mainly [01:02:00] Instagram and YouTube. Um, because I, I have this very strong feeling of, like, propagating myself in those particular means.
So my Instagram. Handle it's going to change, but that's fine. Uh, my Instagram handle right now is at, uh, avatar Devante, um, and then my YouTube. That's also for sure going to change. So, um, we can maybe link it somewhere, but I will have YouTube and Instagram to connect with people. And then I'll be teaching classes, uh, choreographies of inner peace, um, which will happen on Sundays in like the morning time.
So yeah,
Kyley: whenever you change the name, you can message us. We can update the show notes so that the archival version of this episode can have the updated update. I know. Well, the, uh, I'm in one of those transitions myself of like, okay, is it this URL or is it this year? So I know that moment, you can't rush [01:03:00] it.
It'll be ready when it's ready. And it's easy. So if, so listener, if you're listening to this a year after it was released and you're like, I missed my window. This show will We'll, we got you. We'll
Eva: update the, yeah. Hit us up and we'll do our best to, we know We will do it. Our wonderful team will help us do it.
Kyley: thank stay. Thank you. Stay updated. Okay. Well, should we do joy? Could you imagine joy? Devante, friend, what is something bringing you
DeVante: joy right now? Just the reminder that I can receive such warmth from conversation with people who feel, see, and understand me, at least my perception of that. So just a reminder of the warmth of connection that comes from being around good people. So thank you truly to both of you and to anyone who's listening, who, who's resonating with our conversation.
Um, Thank you.
Eva: Yeah. The gift of being in [01:04:00] community and a safe space. It's honestly priceless.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Um, I'll share Kylie. I have one that I think maybe the both of you can appreciate is that, um, at 40 years old, I discovered, I recently discovered lipstick, which is a whole new fucking frontier people. I had no idea.
And Kylie, you look fierce in lipstick. So like I've seen you and, and so I think you can appreciate, but, uh, I never used to like lipstick. I, I, I don't know. There's something about it. Yeah. Maybe it's just, like, improved since when I was, like, younger. We were
Kyley: buying, like, wet and wild, right? Exactly.
Eva: I was like, yeah, exactly.
My first impressions of lipstick were, like, drugstore lipstick. And then, you know, like, sure, I'll use, like, a nice gloss or, like, a chapstick or whatever. But I don't, I do think, I do think it has something to do with turning 40. I don't know what it was, but suddenly I was just, like, Oh, like I want this and it's fierce [01:05:00] and colorful and loud.
And I just love the way that it makes me feel. But the funny thing is, so I actually went with my mom. We were like at this department store. And we were at like the Mac counter anyway, and I like wanted like a bright red And I just think asian women actually look really nice and like a nice bright red I mean so many women do look nice in red lipstick.
But anyway, there's something fierce about it And so I picked this color. It's really wonderful. It turns out to be the exact same shade that my mom Where's? And I was like, I am literally going to give to my mom. I had mixed feelings about because I funny enough, I actually hated her red lipstick when I was younger.
That's like the funny thing. And now I'm like, Oh, another humbling moment of where I like understand my parents better, you know? So it, there is something that fuels, I don't know, maybe, I don't know, can you guys describe it? Like, what is it about lipstick that fuels? Powerful almost and fun. It's also joyful and fun.
And so I am I'm, I'm [01:06:00] so ready to explore the world of lipstick.
Kyley: I'm so excited about this. Yeah. There is something just like, that's to me exactly. Lipstick just feels so fun. Yes. Yeah.
DeVante: Yeah. Yes. And also like lipstick for me, accentuates the lips. And I feel like the lips is, it's such a beautiful. Place on a person.
There's so many nerves. It's so sensitive So the fact that it's so sensitive and you when you're wearing lipstick, you know, you're wearing lipstick like, you know it So every single moment you're sort of like looking your lips or moving or talking you kind of remind it Okay, like I've put this this for me.
I think of it as like warrior cream Sometimes I'm putting this warrior cream on my lips and like yeah Every single word I'm saying is being like uttered through this lipstick. So it feels very like powerful for me in that way.
Eva: Oh, I love that. Yes. Yes. I love that. Because even back in the day, I mean, really lipstick has been around for forever since maybe, you know, just color, just putting color on your lips or something about, there's almost something [01:07:00] ancestral about it.
But anyway, sorry, Kylie, you were saying? Oh,
Kyley: I was just gonna say, I think. For me, uh, I went through a whole phase of like hiding, like, like clothes, like there's pictures of me, especially right after my kid, like my son was born, I was like long hair. It just, there was a lot of hiding energy in my body and in my clothes.
Um, and so lipstick. Was like the first foray into like, or you could fucking take up space, right? Or you could make, decide that you were, are noteworthy and noticeable. Um, and. And so I love lipstick for that's like, I kind of feel like lipstick, like took me under her wing and was like, I got you. Right. And now I'm like, you know, I feel like pretty, pretty committed to my maximalism, but she was the first one who was like, I know what you
Eva: need.
Interesting. It's so funny. These little things. Okay. Can I ask you guys a question, like a tip advice? What do you guys do [01:08:00] about lipstick and kissing? Cause like, how do you feel? I don't know how, I don't know if I love the idea of like getting, I don't like that getting it all over. And I don't know.
Kyley: Yeah. I mean, I, I, this is, this is one of the upsides of being with someone for 20 years is that you can choose, you can make kind of practical choices, which is like, I'm going to look great on my lipstick all night.
And then when we go to make out, I'm just wiping it off first. Right?
Eva: No. Oh, okay. Okay. No, that's actually.
Kyley: And also now it just feels, I can see why someone else might feel like it's. It's erotic to have the whole lipstick, but I just feel like, no, it did its thing. We're good now. Yeah. I just usually very, you know,
Eva: practical advice.
Thank you. Exactly.
DeVante: Same. I'm also the same, like wipe it away and then go into it. Yeah. Cause I feel like the lipstick is for me, not for. The other person, the other person can have like the pure lip, you know, they deserve it. If they deserve it. Okay. But if not, if not, I would like to keep it on. Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: [01:09:00] Yeah. Okay. Love this. Love this.
Kyley: Okay. It is, it is also a good filter of like, how much do I want to kiss this person in this moment? Because is it worth taking lipstick off? You know,
Eva: Loving this conversation. Definitely. Also bringing me joy. Okay. Kylie, what's one
Kyley: thing that's bringing you joy? So my joy is, um, to the point of winter season, I have been like really intentional on, I mean, like unscheduling things on my calendar this winter, which has been such a gift and in a way that's like, I wanted this for so long, and like, why did it take me so long to get No.
But anyway, um. And so this afternoon with my daughter, she had a half day at school. She has a half day twice a week. I picked her up and we just had a totally like, we just did nothing and it was the most fun. So we like went, we did errands. We went to end up going to the mall. I never go to the mall. So I do love that.
We're like, had this very deep spiritual [01:10:00] conversation and then we're ending with like lipstick in the mall, which is, it's all the same. I
Eva: mean, welcome to hello universe.
Kyley: Yeah. So, uh, I took, we ended up going to the mall and my daughter, she's four and a half. She is like pure femme energy. Like she has never worn, ever since she got to choose her clothes, she has not worn pants and a shirt.
She wears dresses. Every single time. Every single day. Um, she just, like, loves, like, long hair is a very important part of her identity. Like, she is just, like, it cracks me up how intense she is and her just, like, joy of things that we associate with being girly. Um. And one part of that is also that she just loves shopping.
Like she just like, gets like, so delighted just to like, look at all the things in the store. And like, you know what, it's fun for her. There was a particular, like, our family jokes were like, Birdie be shoppin because she gets so excited about it. And so, we ended up, I went to do one errand, and then we just [01:11:00] walked around the mall, and she was just like, So giddy and excited to be like one on one time with me and like looking at all these like tchotchkes in the mall But the highlight, Rio, is that we were in some store that had lots of pretty dresses and it had a floor length mirror And she just I realize we don't actually have any floor length mirrors in my house for whatever reason So this was like an anyway, she just like Started dancing and like kissing herself.
I have video footage. I will share. I started, I actually started crying because she was just like standing there and her four and a half year old glory. Madly in love with herself, like just obsessively in love with herself. And Dan literally kissed the mirror and surrounded by these like sparkly shoes and sequined dresses.
So like totally in her element for people who are into astrology, she is a Leo moon, if you were [01:12:00] wondering. And, and it was just, it just felt really special to spend the day with her. And it felt really beautiful to see her joy. Just. So just so, so, so much joy at like, just being alive and being in a body, right. When I was four and a half, I didn't, I like, I didn't have that, you know, in that way. I mean, I did in different ways, but anyway.
Well, as
Eva: someone who's like met Birdie and I think what's so important, what I'm taking away from this, it's just very inspiring because it's like, I think it's that unconditional love that we have for ourselves without, it's an innocent enjoyment of the self of like, I am beautiful and wonderful. And I don't need to pretend and I don't need to make myself small or be modest because it's innocent and it's, there's nothing wrong with it.
But then, you know, as we all see it myself, and then as I get, as I got older, that gets stripped away because, because all of our conditioning or not the good, not good enough. All the things, other things that we've talked about on this podcast before and Birdie is just, [01:13:00] I mean, she's fierce and she's untainted and she's, um, yeah, she's kind of like.
She does have this energy of like, I don't, I don't know if it's like, I don't give a fuck, but queen energy. So she's got queen energy.
Kyley: She really does. And like, I have never met anybody who more deeply embodies that she's a fucking queen than my four and a half. And not in, in, in this like joyful, exuberant kind of way, like.
Of course the world loves me right and it's not malicious and it's not selfish and it's not cruel. It's just this like genuine deep love of self and this genuine deep sense that like the world should love her because she's fucking great. Yeah, I want that for everybody.
Eva: Yeah, and that's how I think we all.
I think that's the truth of reality. Yeah, we just forget.
DeVante: Yes. Yeah. And I also think like, this is what's beautiful about being around kids. Um, is that when they do something you're like, Hmm, [01:14:00] I could do that too. If, if, if, if a five year old can show this much love and, and secure and safety for themselves, I, I can do that too.
I, I can feel into that, especially if it's a child like, like you're very close to that you feel a strong connection to, like, like your daughter, like, it's so easy to soak up that energy and, and sort of like become a little bit more like that. It's so magical to see those moments, because, at least for me, it always helps me reflect back on who I am, and, um, it makes me love myself more, like, when I see kids in, like, their pure, awesome, joy self, I'm just like, wow, I'm amazing, like, so, somehow, it, like, reflects back onto
Kyley: me.
Yeah, it's reminding you, right, right, right, right. Because
Eva: they're teachers, children are teachers,
Kyley: for sure, you know. It also feels, like, really humbling to have these moments where you see your kids. Thriving. It's, it's [01:15:00] You would, you might think it would be this moment of like, I'm the best mom, but it's just like, totally humbling.
It's like, this is an insane thing to try to shepherd these tiny, brilliant souls through the world. And holy shit, like they're thriving. Holy shit. And it's really, it's really humbling. It's really humbling. Yeah. Yeah. All right, friends. And then to complete it at seven o'clock at night, I had to take a break from my kids because everyone was being too loud and I was pissed at everybody.
And I needed my noise counseling headphones 'cause I was on sensory overload. So don't take the story too roses. Yeah. I mean, you know, you contain multitude. Mm-Hmm, . All right, y'all. Thank you,
DeVante: Devonte. Yeah, I feel complete. Thank you. Thank you both so much. This has been a joy, a treat. It's been juicy. So thank you.