Why does self-expression feel so damn hard sometimes and how can we get out of our own way? We jump into the deep end on this question today.
Why does self-expression feel so damn hard sometimes and how can we get out of our own way? We jump into the deep end on this question today.
Enter Your Villain Era: https://www.kyleycaldwell.com/villain-era
Kyley’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thekyleycaldwell
Eva's instagram: @iamevaliao
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Kyley's Instagram: @kyleycaldwell
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[00:00:00]
Eva: Hey, everyone. It's Eva.
Kyley: it's Kylie.
Eva: Welcome back to hello universe. Our last episode before we go on summer break. Um, I'm really excited about the today's topic. Kylie is, um, holding space for me to explore this, this, this idea of creativity and expression and how it might be related to sex. Not really sure yet. We're going to dive into that, but
Kyley: let's definitely tease sex in the very beginning so that people can see the whole episode.
Eva: Yes. Okay. Um, but before we [00:01:00] do that, is there anything you'd like to share with our friends,
Kyley: Yes. Um, doors are open for enter your villain era, my friends, which is a vibe. And I love this program. I love this medicine. It is so much fun. Um, If you are, if you are someone who's been on a journey to choose yourself in your own life, this is for you. If you are someone who laughs at the memes of like, oh, enter your villain air and a girl is just finally learning to say no.
Kyley: This is right. If you have. And a people pleaser or perfectionist. If you have a harsh inner critic, if you are someone who is just eager to settle more deeply into joy and pleasure in your life, this is for you. Um, it's a super, super fun program. So the way it's, it's, um, and actually I got my first like [00:02:00] hate share the other day.
Eva: Oh, that's a good sign.
Kyley: It's great because it does always like kind of activate people. And like last time I taught it, the price of the course is 666. And I had a whole bunch of family members who were like, what are you doing?
Eva: Yes. Worried
Kyley: this time, this time around, I got someone like, who like angrily shared some memes that I made about like,
Eva: Oh, really?
Kyley: yeah, it was their comment was like, Why would you sacrifice your quality as a person?
Kyley: Uh, which made me laugh because that's the whole point is that we walk around sacrificing ourselves all the time in service of trying to be good, but it's. It's actually self abandonment, right? Because we are so afraid of the parts of ourselves that we think are bad or selfish or wrong or too much or not enough.
Kyley: And as a result, we are constantly sacrificing ourselves order to try to achieve goodness or good enoughness. And it's all an [00:03:00] illusion. And the freedom you actually want is by liberating the parts of yourself that you've been rejecting. And in particular, the parts of yourself who, uh, Say no, or put themselves first, or are angry, um, and um, and that's not to say it's about reactivity and causing harm, it's the opposite, it's like you are unlocking these parts of yourself away because you are afraid that they will cause harm, and as a result you are actively harming yourself all the fucking time.
Kyley: And when you integrate them, then you're whole, then you're sovereign, then you're fucking free, my friends.
Eva: I mean, I love the whole, I mean, the title says it all. Enter your villain. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe that's why people are like, this is sacrilegious. But like, to me, this whole vibe of like, enter your villain era, which I love so much is like, just totally be yourself. Take up all the space that you want to take, which is actually more honest.
Eva: You know what I mean? You don't have to hide yourself and contort and just to be a [00:04:00] free human being, which Will maybe ruffle some feathers, you know, if you've been people pleasing your entire life or being overly apologetic your entire life, but, but I actually do think that that is the more to be authentically yourself is the most kind thing that you can do for other people too.
Eva: So I just, I just love the vibe of like, every time you, um. Start promoting this program. Like the memes are just so good and
Kyley: Save all year
Eva: the SAS is so good. That's what I mean. It's like the sa the vibe, the memes, the, it, it is this, this energy of just like, it kind of, maybe we'll do a podcast on this too, but like, it's okay to be bad.
Kyley: Yeah. And a big part of the core, the way the course is structured is that it's, um, It's like a partnership with this pantheon of dark goddesses, right? That are like come in as support. And so each [00:05:00] week is in some way structured around a particular message or resonance or activation from a dark goddess.
Kyley: And you can engage with that to whatever extent, right? There are some people who have like intensive goddess practices and there are other people who are like, that's a cool story and whatever level is true for you is the way in which to engage in it. Bye. Uh, each of these goddesses has a really juicy, delicious story of ways in which patriarchy has Like made them wrong.
Kyley: Right. So, you know, Lilith is a great example of, you know, luscious passionate pleasure and a whole collection of stories that's made her sinful and wrong. And actually she's this really powerful liberation of like, go fucking enjoy your life. Right. Or one week the goddess is Kali. Who has shown up for me in a big way these past couple of months, and she's known for her [00:06:00] anger, but we don't understand anger and we don't understand actually the, like, the tremendous love that is actually present in our anger.
Kyley: And so when we work with Kali that week, it's about building a trusting and loving relationship with your anger instead of a fearful 1. So, so in addition to the community, in addition to me, there's actually this. supercharged collection of gods and goddesses that step in each week. My favorite Loki is also in, uh, everyone's favorite genderqueer trickster god Loki is, um, is in for the week of, you're sometimes you're the villain in other people's stories.
Kyley: And actually you just have to be okay with that, right? Part of the freedom is who gives a fuck if other people make you their villain. Um, so anyway, it's going to be a vibe. It's going to be fun. If you want to deepen a practice with Dark goddesses. It's also a great path for that. Um, and yeah, [00:07:00] the vibe is like, what if things were fucking fun?
Kyley: So come get on. Yes.
Eva: that's a summer vibe right there. Um, that's awesome. I love that you bring in the energy of the gods to help support everybody too. Like that's, that's something that is very foreign to me and I don't know, I could just see that being really fun, like a new way to work with this medicine.
Eva: Mm.
Kyley: exactly. And like I said, it's not, it's not about, it's a summer course. It's not about homework. It's not about like, now go do all these rituals unless you like doing that. But it's really about, there are all these energies. Here to support us again, whether you connect to it through story or whether you connect through it through a spiritual practice, like you're not alone in the journey of unhooking from patriarchal people, pleasing.
Kyley: So, like, come have more fun.
Eva: Yes. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get
Kyley: How about you, my love?[00:08:00]
Eva: So yes, this is our last episode before we go on summer break. That's something that we do every year. And I love that we do that for ourselves. Um, and my summer is going to be pretty wild because I'm, um, part of what I'm doing here in Brazil, um, is that I'm helping my friend Tom coordinate his retreats, which are truly life changing and are some of like the most potent spiritual experiences I've had in my entire life.
Eva: And they're fun and they're beautiful. And so we do that in Brazil. We were running retreats in Brazil, but also we're doing a mini Europe, America tour, North America tour this summer, which is insane. Like, like, I still can't believe that this is happening actually. And that it's just, I'm feeling in this moment, actually a bit of overwhelm of like, wow, I'm actually sharing this.
Eva: And that makes it real that this is happening in my life. I'm sharing it, not just with my friends and close loved ones and family, but like, Oh, [00:09:00] I guess. I don't know why it feels, you know, when you're really excited about something and you still can't believe that it's true, it feels a little vulnerable to share it so openly and publicly, but anyway, what I feel vulnerable and excited about is this tour.
Eva: And so we're going to be in, um, where are we going? We're going to go to Quebec, Montreal, which, oh my God, it's like such a good fucking fun time. It's like summer camp for adults. And you just shed all of your fucking shit until at the end, by the end of the seven days, you. are experiencing just pure love and happiness, which is like, I think our true nature.
Eva: And so that's me, Canada. And then we're going to go to Spain. And then we're going to be in Italy for a shorter one in Florence, and then we go back to LA. Um, so that's the circuit that I'm going to be on, and I invite anybody who's looking for the kind of retreat, you know, like, which is how I got involved in the [00:10:00] first place when I was like, I just, I want something.
Eva: I want to retreat. I want something in person. I want something intensive. I want something that I know is just going to fucking work. Blow me wide open. That's when I signed up for my first retreat. Um, that was like six ish years ago. So if you're looking for something like that, and you want to be in a beautiful space with beautiful, beautiful people, um, you can just, yeah, continue to follow me on Instagram.
Eva: I'll be sharing all that information there. And it's going to be a wild ride. I mean, I'm just gonna, just me personally, also, the other thing that I'm so excited about, I'm a very, like,
Eva: self, what do you call it? Self, blah, blah, blah, blah, where I get a lot out of it is that I'm going to be going on all of these fucking retreats and attending. I pretty, I'm going to be fucking goo by the end of it. Like my consciousness is going to be so And my heart is going to be so blasted wide open, I am like, I'm excited and a little bit nervous because these experiences can also be like a pressure cooker.
Eva: Oh, they're like intense, but like in the most loving [00:11:00] fucking space. And I'm just like realizing like out now out loud, like, Oh my God, I'm gonna be doing like two full months of this shit of, of. Of Byron Katie's, the work of questioning, like all everything that I know, everything that brings me suffering, like questioning all of reality that I, it'll be interesting to see.
Eva: Yeah. What state I end up in at the end of this trip.
Kyley: Yeah, I mean, I've watched how much each time you've been on 1 of these retreats. But I've known you, I've watched how much it has changed everything. And so, yeah, I do. I am excited by the like, all right, line them up back to back to back. Uh, and if anybody. I mean, if anyone is listening and if anyone is listening and listens to the show and is like, man, that Eva, she's so wise and grounded.
Kyley: And I wish I could be more like her, which I mean, who among us hasn't had that thought? This is the answer. Go do these retreats and hang out with her and, uh, let your life be changed.
Eva: [00:12:00] Yes. And.
Kyley: Fall in love with yourself and life in a whole new way. No,
Eva: about these retreats, but I haven't actually said like what they are. And so if you're familiar, some people may already be somewhat familiar. Maybe, you know, the name Byron Katie, she, she, um, does this thing called the work.
Eva: And when I went to my first retreat, I hadn't, I didn't know anything about the work. Like I just jumped in hold. And that's what I'm, I'm inviting people here to do too, actually. Cause I actually, that's when I think it's the fucking best. And, um, when we had our first retreat here in Brazil. We had, I had a couple people, yeah, who listened to the podcast or just past clients of mine who are also like, I don't know what this is.
Eva: I've heard of Byron Katie, but I don't really know, but I just trust this. And I, and I trust you and I want this experience. And they just came and their minds were fucking blown. Like they were like, Oh, I mean, if you get that, holy shit experience, which is what I want for people. So, um, you don't have to know anything about the work or know anything about Byron Katie, just like [00:13:00] come with an open mind and that's, and like, get ready, just buckle up.
Eva: Yay! Okay. So, today, I would love to explore what it means to be, or how to be more creative. I want to talk about my desire to, for like, to be more expressive, and how, you know, That's actually really fucking hard for me sometimes even though it's like the thing that I want most and then also like I said in the top of the show bleed into like how this I think is connected to sex and what that even means, but a bit of a backdrop to why I want to have this conversation is because I realized like every time I, Hey, launch a program or launch anything, I have a really hard time.
Eva: Like I'm always, and this has been my thing for a long time, Kylie, you know this. I'm like, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to say it. Um, [00:14:00] and I get really stuck in perfectionism and it's where basically all of my shit comes out. And a lot of my shit is also just like, like, yeah, like being overly perfectionistic, like fear of being misunderstood, uh, caring what other people think.
Eva: Like, these are all things that I'm. that I shed in so many areas of my life. But then for some reason, when it comes to what's interesting about like launching a program is that that's not about launching a program. That's where it's about really expressing something that feels really true to my heart.
Eva: It's like, I've created something. Like, what does it mean to create something? And then to also create another thing to share that, like, I wish it could be a really free experience for me. And I want to make this more. Like universal to everybody listening like it doesn't matter if you run a business and like whatever half are doing launches and it's like,
Kyley: I think this, I was actually [00:15:00] about to say that I'm so glad we're talking about this because I think it is really, really common. Like I do think it's a very common thing for people who either have a business or want a business. Um, but I also think that this is very common I think this is actually a very relatable experience, right?
Kyley: Where there's some something dear to you that you either want to create or want to share some, whether it's like a tender emotion that you want to, like, a truth that you want to share with a special person or, um, or, or a way in which you want people to understand you or being able to speak up in a meeting at your job.
Kyley: I actually think this is a very, very common experience where there's a desire. To speak truth in some particular way, and then ways of somehow feeling stilted or confined. And sometimes I [00:16:00] think clear. Sometimes it's like, oh, this is the hang up. Right. But then I think other times it's this murky, you're feeling like, I don't know why this is hard.
Kyley: I don't want it to be hard and this frustration, because desire to express. Some, right? It's important and it feels important, and also it feels far away or hard or not fully accessible. Or you do it and you can feel how it's like, oh, that's not totally what I want it to be. And so I don't, I actually think this is, this is very universal, but you, the example that you might use is about launching, but I think that the specifics might change, but the, the, the comment is really common.
Eva: like, as you're saying that I what's making me realize is that it's not about creativity. I think creation is what happens. But I think really what I want to explore is self expression.
Kyley: Mm-Hmm.
Eva: what it's about. And I actually even had a client call the other day where she had like a wonderful example of how this can show up in your life.
Eva: It's like, she's in this program that's [00:17:00] very like, um, Like social justice oriented and you have to have a lot of conversations about like, you know, sensitive conversations about race and, and politics and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, I just, she was like, I just get caught in my throat and I can't say what I want to say, you know, in that situation for understandable reasons, you know, fear of being, you know, Judge, you're misunderstood, or like you're going to say the wrong thing, you're going to be cancelled, you're going to be cast out of love.
Eva: Like that's, you know, like that whole environment is very touchy, sensitive. But that's a wonderful example of like, I just want to say what I want to say and I like can't get it out of my throat,
Kyley: And I also think sometimes there's a feeling of like, I want to say something. And I have no words. I think that's another thing that can happen, right? Is feeling of like, my heart is so open and invested in, I mean, I made a post about this, about Palestine just recently. It was like, I actually don't have words.
Kyley: Like I am, I am like looking and crying and I have no [00:18:00] words. And so this post is me saying I am looking and crying and have no words, right, because, because I didn't want my lack of language to be read as silence. Right. But also. They're like the thing that I am feeling and in the witnessing is like, yeah, even now, right?
Kyley: Like, I, I can't, I can't, um, I don't have language, but I have, but I am, I'm present with it, you know,
Eva: So, so that's an interesting piece about not having language because that's I think That maybe this is where the segue into creation comes in because a lot of people because language falls short oftentimes and it also cannot capture the emotions and then therefore that's like people create such beautiful things I'm thinking like artwork and paintings and poetry and music and just
Kyley: dance. Yes,
Eva: creative expression or even cook cooking I was cooking yesterday and thinking about how that's also creativity like there's this innate part of us so [00:19:00] everyone wants to be seen and heard like that's just a fucking given at this point we know you The truth is we all just want to be seen and heard.
Eva: We want to be seen and heard. That means that we want, we have something like, we want to be able to express. And expression can come out in like a lot of different ways. I think that's what people are trying to get to when they are creating beautiful works of, you know,
Kyley: yes, yes,
Eva: I can't express my grief for Palestine, but I can draw this thing.
Eva: I can dance it out. I can cook it. You know,
Kyley: I think there's like a couple different. Things that we're tugging on here, right? Is, is widening the scope of self expression to include and give ourselves permission to see how like this morning, Desi and I had a little dance party before school. And that felt like such a beautiful way of yeah.
Kyley: Expressing my joy for being alive, also inviting in joy for being alive. And obviously that was beneath language. Um, but then I think there, [00:20:00] yeah, that was really great. Um, uh, I, anyway, just brief aside, but I have been realizing more and more over the years that like sitting meditation is like my body wants to move and actually like a more ecstatic meditation practice is much more, um, is much is, is, is the thing I crave in this moment.
Kyley: And so I've been like more intentionally cultivating, um, like movement, meditation, movement, meditative experiences. Um, but I, but I, I, I. I think what you're also speaking to is that there are times where like language is the thing you want, right? Like when you're trying to share, uh, you know, a beautiful container that you've created or the work that you feel so passionately about, you do want language to be able to share it with people.
Kyley: And so, yes, there's ways of expressing outside of language, but I really appreciate this [00:21:00] conflict that you're speaking to, which is like ways in which the words feel. Tight and hard to come by and incomplete and like the experience somehow feels frustrating.
Eva: Yes. Well, especially because there's nothing wrong with wanting words to be your avenue of expression. And I think, so the other, it's the reason this is like, feels personal to me. is also because something that you clocked for me a couple, like, I don't know, maybe two weeks ago that stopped me in my tracks.
Eva: When you basically saw me before I saw myself, like you noted something, you read me and you were just like, Eva, I think you want to be able to speak in a way that electrifies people. And I was like, Whoa, like hold, I didn't know that that was my desire, but it is. And, and there's so many ways that I Like get choked [00:22:00] up or hold myself back and or cut myself off, you know, before it's even I've even gotten started, and, um, I don't know, I guess I also just want to ask you, Kylie, like, how, what's your, like, you don't seem like you struggle with that as much.
Eva: And I'm curious, I don't know if that's true or not, but like, what's your experience with expression, creativity, like, do you think, because that's, it's an area where I overthink a lot. And this is why I want to bring up sex, by the way, because like, because sex is a place where I don't overthink, and that's also a place of like, huge creative expression.
Eva: And I'm like, Oh, I see what's happening. Like, sex is great for me because I'm not in my mind. I'm like in my body. But when I'm in creation, I'm one, like, I'm so in my fucking mind. It's almost like I don't even know how to be not in my mind when I'm writing and when I'm speaking. And so that's where I'm like, Oh, and I said to you also through a message, I'm like, Oh, I see now creativity doesn't come through the mind.
Eva: And as if I like, it was [00:23:00] like an epiphany. It's probably so obvious to many people, but I had never realized like, Oh, creativity doesn't come from the mind. Like that's how tied to the mind I am when it comes to creativity. Yes.
Kyley: I was in college by, um, I think it was by Madeline L'Engle who wrote A Wrinkle in Time. And it was like a little short book about creativity. And it was the first time I heard the concept that now is like, I've heard many times and is like what I do for a living, which is like to channel, which is basically she was describing as like writing as channeling, right.
Kyley: Without using that language, which is to say like you in order, like actual writing, like creative expression, that kind of artistic, this is the good stuff writing. You've got to get the fuck out of the way. It comes through you. It isn't, it isn't you. It just comes through you and your job is just to like, let it move through you and get the, kind of get the fuck out of the way of it.
Kyley: Um, Michael said it much better than that, but you get the vibe, right? And I think, [00:24:00] The author, Elizabeth Gilbert also says this really beautifully, right? Um, and so I think this awareness of, Oh, creative expression is not mind is really powerful because yeah, most of the time mind is actually the thing that's in the way of the expression that wants to come through.
Kyley: It filters, it edits, it like, like messes with you, right. And, and, um, And, yeah, I don't think I struggle with this the same way, although I do at times. Um, I used when I was, I think I have a lot of memories of being young and having a hard time with this. So, um, like, I have this memory in computer lab when I was a kid of, like, going and just staring at, like, the white screen.
Kyley: So anyone who's young and is listening to us, I'm probably dating, you know, dating myself, but we would, like, go in a computer lab, right? And there were these
Eva: Totally computer lab! Oh my god,
Kyley: And we [00:25:00] had like our 40 minutes and we had to write and I remember just like staring at this blank screen like I don't know how to start and like do like typing a sentence and like everyone around me is just like writing away and I was like because sometimes for me the struggle is that there is so much that I want to say that I can literally like feel it's like Like an, like, like a giant river wants to come rushing through me and I get overwhelmed because I can't, it's like I can't get it out fast enough, or my body's like kind of overwhelmed by the big,
Eva: magnitude of the ideas and the feelings, yes, I feel you. Oh my god.
Kyley: and, and so I do sometimes. It's kind of like, yeah, like system overwhelm and I, and I have, I have trouble, but for me, this is where in some ways I think ADHD is tremendous, is a tremendous gift is like, sometimes it clicks and I just, one of the gifts of ADD is that it just [00:26:00] tugs you where you want to be, which can be hard in society that doesn't, isn't set up that way, but like, I will just be in the kitchen and I will get an idea for something to say.
Kyley: And then I just like sandwiches. Videos are half made like kids are asking, like, it doesn't matter. Everything just stops for 10 minutes. I just write the thing and then I just hit post and it's done and it's out there. And those are like always things that I have to say.
Eva: Mm. Oh,
Kyley: And so in some ways my creative process is just like very impulsive.
Kyley: Um, and, and so I just don't give them, I just don't give my brain a chance to catch up. Essentially. I just get ahead of it and I just act. And I just like run as fast as I can when the idea strikes because the mind is gonna catch up and be like, but do we want to say that?
Eva: Yes. Okay. That is so good. I love that. Okay. No, but so then my question is, but what about the aftermath? Because I think where I get choked up is [00:27:00] like, sometimes I'll write this thing and I'm like, Oh my God, that was so brilliant. Or I really loved it. It doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's brilliant or I love this, but then I'm like, share it.
Eva: And then. And then I like go back and look at it again, and then I'll be like, that's and then it and then and then I see everything that was wrong with it, or all the things that I don't like, and then it robs me and then all immediately what I mean, like a minute ago that was beautiful. It's gone. Like I'm robbed of it.
Eva: Yes, please help me here.
Kyley: I'm laughing because do you know what I do? I am so fucking great. I
Eva: I think.
Kyley: continue to make tweaks. Like I always like find little tweaks, but generally speaking, I go back and it's never said this. I literally reread my shit all the time. Just be like, great. Am I? Great. Um, uh,
Eva: Okay. Okay. So I have more, I have more to say about that because I have those experiences too, but [00:28:00] it's always much later. And how do I say, Hey, Hey, do you know,
Eva: okay. So I'm going to give an example.
Eva: That may seem a little out of left field, but just. Bear with me. You know, the, I think we've all had those moments where, uh, at a certain age, we didn't feel like pretty enough. We didn't feel, I don't know, we felt like our hair was messed up. Something was like wrong. We judged ourselves for having something being wrong.
Eva: And then in that, at that time, but then two years past, five years past, you go back and you look at a photo of yourself and you realize actually like, You were fucking stunning. Like you were, you were beautiful, but you robbed yourself at that, at that time of the experience of seeing how, at how wonderful everything actually really was and how wonderful you were.
Eva: And I feel like that's how my experience with creation is, is like, after enough time has passed, like I'll go back and I'll be like, Oh my God, look at this amazing, all of this amazing work to that, that I did. And I was just a fucking asshole to myself the whole time.
Kyley: Do you know what's funny? I Oh, I'm interrupting you. Sorry, go [00:29:00] ahead.
Eva: But, well, I guess, um, I don't know. I don't know really my point with that is just, well, what I've learned from that experience is like, actually, there is something to be appreciated about anything that we create in any moment. Cause it's probably always way more awesome than we give ourselves credit for.
Kyley: Yeah, well, the reason I got all jazzed and interrupted is because I kind of have the opposite problem. When I am making when something is fresh and alive, I'm like, this is the best thing ever!
Eva: Oh, mm
Kyley: I would rather just, I don't know, watch paint dry, than have to like, re read something that I wrote three years ago.
Kyley: I don't know. I look at old things and I'm like, Oh, who was that person? And I actually have a funny story. So this weekend, I found this old journal. When I was in college, I wrote, I took poetry writing classes. Um, and like wrote somewhat decent poetry. Um, but I somehow disallowed myself to keep writing because I don't think I didn't [00:30:00] think I read enough to qualify to write poetry anyway.
Kyley: But,
Eva: Oh, see the ways that we just fucking cut ourselves down, man.
Kyley: So anyways, this might be my era where I return to writing poetry, but I
Eva: I would love that, please, because I bet you would write some bomb ass fucking poetry.
Kyley: actually, actually part of what I realized is sometimes when I'm wanting to like make weird esoteric memes on Instagram that I feel like go underappreciated. I'm like, Oh, cause I actually just writing. Anyway.
Eva: okay, I could talk, maybe we'll bookmark that. Maybe I would love to come back to that. Because this is what I mean, like, there's this expression that wants to come out of us that I feel like is so natural to us and, and, and, and, and actually like so many of us, myself included, are devoid of this thing.
Eva: It's almost as if being, like, I get now what people mean when they say it's like, It's like, I don't know, it's like missing an elemental part of ourselves. Because we don't live in a world that we're create creativity is honored enough. [00:31:00] Yes.
Kyley: you
Eva: hmm.
Kyley: got it. I think you said something really powerful though, when you were talking about sex and how that's a place where you are uninhibited and like trust the creative, playful expression of the process because think there's a false binary that's happening right that like, like, you're not devoid of this.
Kyley: You just want more of it in other places, right? It's not that you can learn a new skill. It's that you want like that inhibition to filter into more areas of your life, but you already have it and you already know it. It just doesn't live in it. Language and public facing speaking that much. And I would also argue what is our podcast, but not like some pretty, I think, free flowing, creative expression.
Kyley: It's this specific. I feel like for you, it's this specific aspect about. I mean, I think it's the places where you feel like you [00:32:00] have to be understood. To me, like as an observer, that's where things, that's where it starts to break down. When you think that there's a requirement to be understood or some pressure to like, get it right.
Kyley: Like here on the show, I feel like there's enough fluidity and maybe it's because there's more space and time, right? We've got like an hour and a half. And if I'm confused, I'll ask you questions. And, um, but, but, but there's something I think for you in. Like this is my 90 second soundbite and I hope I, I hope you get it.
Eva: Yes. Yes. Okay. So just shout out to the podcast real quick. Cause I just want to say, and I, and I think both that you and I have have feel this way, like, and we've reflected on this before, just, I feel so appreciative of this space because I think. It's a place where I've actually been able to practice and learn more about expression and expressing freely.
Eva: And I think we've both shared, I think we did an episode. It was [00:33:00] like, what's one of the things we've learned most from doing this podcast is like, it's helped us, I think, grow as speakers and not just in a million different ways. And so I just want to say, I don't know if you're somebody who also wants to, like, feel more comfortable expressing yourself.
Eva: Like, you know, there's a, there's an annoying trope out there that like every white boy and his mom has like a podcast. Everyone has a podcast and, and that's how it's like played out now. But like, I'm, I get it. Like having a podcast is amazing and like, go do it. Like if you have a place where you can just be with a friend and just talk, you will learn so much.
Eva: So anyway, shout out, shout out to the podcast. But I also think you're right. It's about like, In a certain area where I think, I think honestly where I get fucked up a lot. It's like, it's social media. Like it is the, it, it, [00:34:00] I don't know. I feel kind of like embarrassed saying that because I'm like, social media is just social media.
Eva: I can't believe that I would let it have such a hold on my life, but you know, it's like, you know, the way our world and where I work and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's
Kyley: Yeah, it's your livelihood. I'm sorry to interrupt, but like, that's a crazy thing. Okay. Sorry. I'm immediately jumping into bossy, but that's a crazy thing to judge because it's literally your livelihood, right? Social media is the place in which we are actively out there like ringing our town squawks town crier bell to earn a living and And so it's about creative self expression and it's about safety and there's a lot of pieces in it.
Kyley: And so
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: I just immediately want to like, of course, it feels complicated
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. I can hear even as I'm really thankful for you saying that because basically what I'm noticing is like how unkind it is to expect it to be different is basically what's happening because I have this story of like, Oh, I'm annoyed that social media, which isn't even in this real, it's like [00:35:00] this rebelliousness in me that like, I'm annoyed that this thing that isn't even real has such a hold on me.
Eva: But the truth is it does. And for, for all these good reasons. And so it's also, it's another way in which I think I'm harming myself, you know, by not allowing that just to be
Kyley: and, and in saying like, oh, it's not even real and it shouldn't matter. You're also kind of denigrating the part of you who actually wants to create beautiful things for social
Eva: Yes,
Kyley: you're being unkind to the part of you who's tender, but you're also undercutting the desire, which is for it to be a really meaningful place of self expression.
Kyley: Because there's a kind of cynicism that's like, well, whatever, it's just dumb anyway.
Eva: yes, totally, totally.
Kyley: So you're like kind of shitting on both
Eva: Both a yes. Oh my god, thank you so much for pointing that out and surprise, surprise. Yeah, that's um, not, that's not, yeah, what am I trying to say? That's not uncommon. I think that can happen. [00:36:00] Look for me for sometimes, you know, where I cut off both ends, but, um, so
Eva: I don't know. I mean, really, as I'm talking out loud, it's like, I wish, okay, if there's anyone out there listening, I'd be like, I would love to have like a creativity coach and expression coach or someone to come on here and just like coach the shit out of me or something. Message me or whatever. But like, I think my question is like, so then, so now what, how does one, how does one proceed to allow themselves.
Kyley: I'm just, every single time,
Eva: Every time.
Kyley: every time, every time. I love your brain so much. There is, I don't even know how to label. I don't know what the, like, what this is, but it's like, like you start to peel off the layer of the onion. You just, as soon as you start to like, get like a hint of like, what the juice underneath and you're like, okay, so now what?
Eva: am
Kyley: Capricorn has entered the chat. It's [00:37:00] like, and my favorite part about it is that she always comes in
Eva: so hard? Because it's, oh my
Kyley: like three steps too soon. Like, we will get to you, but we are not done peeling the layers off.
Eva: god, I'm dying. And just, you've heard me say that so many fucking times. And like, you're coaching me on something. You're taking me to like, this beautiful spiritual experience. And then I'm like, okay, now what?
Kyley: We will get to you. We love you, Capricorn. We would be, this podcast wouldn't exist without you. Like we love you. You do great work, but it's not your turn yet. Sit back down.
Eva: Thank you. Oh my God. I should just get a shirt with my face printed on it that just says, now what? Oh my God.
Kyley: I think it makes me laugh so much too, because I don't know anybody else who is so like at peace with the flow and [00:38:00] ebb of life's time. And like, I don't know anybody who's more willing to be like, yes, of course I'm the baby girl in the big wide universe. And then, and then
Eva: Yes. I know it's such a contradiction, but it's also, I think it's the question that comes in when I'm in like my control mind mode. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Kyley: when that question comes in, to me, it's an indicator of like, in some way, because look, whenever we uncover, whenever we're in spaces like this, where we're unraveling our protective mechanisms. We are, we are vulnerable without those protective mechanisms. And I think there's always a moment where we are afraid that it isn't safe to let go of this, that we'll be hurt if we let go of it, that it's impossible to like, I was watching one today of like, okay, we could just let go of this.
Kyley: And I could feel all of me respond. I could feel a lot of you respond was like, no, we can't. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, That's like, we just need to curl up and give up right here because letting go of this pattern [00:39:00] is just actually not an option. So, so I think you're now, what is in some ways a response to whatever we're poking at feels, um, like dangerous.
Kyley: And she's like, give me the solution to fix it. Cause if we're going to go in, it's going to be bad. And so just like, let's fix it before we go in kind of vibe.
Eva: myself from? You know? So when I think about what I'm protecting myself from, I think it's, I'm like, is it this simple? Like, is it really just coming back to this again? Is it like, I'm maybe like, I'm not good enough. Some it's some, some version of lack of not good enough, maybe, maybe some story of badness there too.
Eva: I'm not sure. But cause I went, I'm thinking it's like, okay, so what would happen if I just like expressed myself completely freely. And as you say, like uninhibited, right. Like that's another thing that's kind of come up for me recently. It's like, what if I could just be completely uninhibited and which also ties into my theme of like being afraid of being perceived as [00:40:00] crazy, which we did an awesome episode.
Eva: We did a three part series of like, you're being crazy, like go back and listen to that. And it's like, so what would happen? And it's like, well, then people would see. Like I would, I would create something and it would be shit, I guess. I don't know, like some, some, some feeling, but it'd be shit. And then, and then my feelings would be hurt because, because it didn't get the recognition I wanted.
Eva: It wasn't like validated. It didn't, it didn't quote unquote work because it didn't get in terms of like the living in the social media world. It didn't get like the traction and the likes and the views and whatever. And I'm like, so then what,
Eva: I don't know, it's going to stop this. And then I wouldn't be good enough.
Kyley: As you're saying this, I'm also getting, I'm getting the image of, um, Like a little kid is really excited to share their rock collection. Right. And the like heart, the like heartbroken moment of, Oh, nobody saw that this was. Right. It's [00:41:00] like that. So I'm getting this image of like the little kid who comes running up with their shiny rock or like the cool slug they found or whatever, and that the adults in their life, because that's the image in my head is that they're adults, like, just don't get it.
Kyley: Or like, they don't care. They're like, you know, ew, slugs are gross. Put that down. Right. And just like a total, like, either ignoring or shaming or some kind of like, you're like up on cloud nine with your little kid excitement and life just like kind of keeps going. Kicks, like, kicks you, kicks the floor off underneath you,
Eva: hmm.
Kyley: and so there's a kind of like, there's like a punishment in that, almost like you're, I don't, maybe this is not totally the vibe, but I think this is a vibe that can happen, like, your earnestness not only isn't recognized, but it's, like, rejected.
Eva: Yeah. It's not. Yeah. So exactly. It's not safe to share because like this enthusiasm isn't shared. And then I'm like, I don't know, I guess I must, I must make that mean something like I don't know. It's just one. It's just like a bummer. [00:42:00] But two, it's like a letdown and it's like, I don't want to share this then.
Eva: Like if you're not gonna like, this is special to me, this shiny rock is really special to me. And if I'm going to share it with you, like it's very much in line with what you've said. Your husband, Nick says all the time, it's a bit, if it's important to you, it's important to me. Like, that's how I want like the world to respond because I actually, and I don't mean that like in a coddled way.
Eva: I mean like, that's actually like really lovely and beautiful, right? Like I'm going to share my shiny rock with you. And if you're just gonna be like, I'm busy right now because you're an adult or this is gross or this is dirty, you take it outside. I'm gonna be like, well, fuck you. I don't want to share it with you.
Eva: Do you know what I
Kyley: and the fuck you there's shame, right? Because when you really earnestly are like, look at this cool thing, I'm so like, I'm like defenseless and vulnerable and just in my enthusiasm and you turn away from me, there's [00:43:00] shame. And then there's fuck you.
Eva: Yeah. Yeah. And I can, like, actually feel that, like I'm totally getting emotional right now. Like the shame of like, it's just shame. I'm trying to like put a story on it, but I don't even know if it matters. It's just like, yeah, there's shame. Like just a sense of shame, sadness, sadness, and badness mixed.
Kyley: It's like I, and, and it's, and it's, there's a, there is a creative expression. like, is really vulnerable, right? It is to
Eva: self expression just to be basically to be seen and to be seen and also to share yourself and say, I want to be seen.
Kyley: I have, I have a story that's coming into my head that, um, that I feel like points to this. Okay. So a little while ago I was on TikTok, which if listeners don't know, I'm obsessed with TikTok. Now it's like where I spend too much time. So you should all come follow me over there. But, um, uh, the, this woman asked a question.
Kyley: [00:44:00] She had, this is like art therapist, this cool art therapist that I follow. And she asked this question, like, would you rather have, um, you know, you would get a thousand dollars to buy art supplies. Or you could have an infinite budget to have all the art supplies you want for your whole life, but you have to make an art show that will be shown at the Met Gallery.
Kyley: Or like some like Big Fancy, right? You have to do to make a show that's going to be shown at like, and I not an, I am not a visual artist. I color with my daughter. I do color, like, I am like, that is just not, I have no, Egoic attachment whatsoever. I just literally like coloring with my daughter in her frozen coloring.
Kyley: Okay. And I was like, Oh, this is the easiest question in the world. A thousand percent. Give me infinite art supplies. I'm going to make a, an art show, put me in the Met. Cause I don't give a fuck if
Eva: interesting. Whoa.
Kyley: not give a. Fuck, like, if you think, like, I literally, I could see it. I was like, Bertie and I would just color a bunch of pictures, we'd cut them out, we'd [00:45:00] put stickers on everything, like, Desi would make popsicle stick men, like, it would be so cool, and people would hate it, and I would be like, I don't give a shit,
Eva: Wow. Really?
Kyley: It means nothing. I have no, like, it actually seems really fun. I like kind of want that challenge now, right? Because I just, I, I have my identity is in no way shape or form attached to visual art. And I do have a very deep sense of play. Like, it's one of the main ways that I play with Birdie.
Kyley: So it like, there's a safe, it's a kind of creation that's safe and like unattached to ego. And yeah, I don't give a fuck. Like, Oh, what? Some are critics and tell me I'm a bad artist. Yeah, no shit.
Eva: I could see how I could like spin it eventually where I like that saw like this ridiculous nature of of the challenge and therefore I wouldn't care. But, but my it's interesting because my immediate reaction was like, Oh, my God, fuck. No, like, I'm going to create something and people are going to see it.[00:46:00]
Eva: Millions and millions of people are going to see it and it's going to be like, like, what if they didn't like getting lost in the, in the metaphor here, but like, what if they didn't know that you are not an artist? Like, what if the exhibit, like, what if you didn't explain the fact that this is just like, you know, that this was, uh, this was the deal.
Eva: What if it was put up in there as if it were supposed to be like, you know, fine art or whatever you still like, wouldn't give a shit.
Kyley: no, actually I kind of relished the idea that it would make everybody pissed off. Like what do you think art is anyway?
Eva: well, see, this is just so interesting to me because it's showing me also like, yeah, like who cares? Like I have no buy into this world and whatever, but at the same time, my immediate reaction, it was just a physical reaction was like,
Kyley: Yeah. Yeah.
Eva: like, Oh my God, it had actually had everything to do with creation of like, nothing I create could ever be good.
Eva: I was just like this intense feeling of like, I can't let people see what I make. There was really something tied to creation there.
Kyley: Well, and, and I, and I, [00:47:00] I think the point of the exercise isn't, and it isn't, oh, so you should all want to do a free, like
Eva: Right. It's to show you where your shit
Kyley: So you, because for me is like, I just am not making, there's no meaning for me in it other than the pleasure of making something with Birdie and then having unlimited, actually there is some pleasure in pissing people
Eva: Yeah, uh huh.
Kyley: Enter your villain era. Okay,
Eva: huh.
Kyley: but, but if somebody, this is two things that are happening here. So one was the awareness that Like I, what are you making things mean? Right. And, and how is something wrapped or like, what is the identity that something is wrapped around? If you, if you both want it and it's painful or like seems scary, there's probably some identity that you maybe think you don't like, because I don't have that same thing about like writing, right, writing, even though I can do it with a little more, I definitely would [00:48:00] feel.
Kyley: Like, I've been saying I wanted to write a book for years. Have I even written the first page? No. And I actually feel like I go to write it and I'm like this, I'm the kid in the middle school computer lab all over again. And I totally clam up. So I'm like, okay, write a social media post, because I don't even know how to start the book.
Kyley: So, so because I have an identity that's invested in writing, but I have always wanted to publish books. I have all right. I have a, there's a lot of me that's invested in like, I want that I am that, or I want to be that. Whereas this art example, there's no identity. So I think there's something about like, there's something about identity and like a grasping to identity.
Kyley: Does that make sense?
Eva: There is, I mean, I can see how it's like different things. Like for, okay, like for someone else it might be music. Like I couldn't care, like I care less about writing. I'm not a writer, but with me it's music. But I think for me, it's like in every realm I would feel that way. And it's not because I'm identified as a writer or as a artist or as a chef or whatever.
Eva: It's because what I wrote down was like, oh no, it's just like [00:49:00] my worth. is tied to creation. My worth. It's just my worth. Like, like if I create something, if it's good, I'm good. If it's bad, I'm bad. I'm bad. And I'm like, Whoa, actually just seeing that like right now in real time, like, Whoa, I'm like, I really think like, where the fuck did that come from?
Eva: I have no idea where that came from, but I'm like, wow, that's like that. And then, and then I get like, I think that's why I've never really created much is because even Even if I've had desires, it's because I, I'm like, Oh no, no, it's gonna be bad. You know, I'm not going to do that. It's gonna be bad. I'm not good at that.
Eva: I get bad, you know, like I'm just bad at this. And so I'm just, I'm just not going to do it. Um, so I don't know, real time realization also like very helpful to see, which is then why social media, I think it's a specifically particularly sticky place for me is because you get immediate like feedback.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: Yeah.
Eva: And so this is okay. Wait, can we, can we move in that direction? Did you want to say more about [00:50:00] that?
So you had actually said something in a voice message cause we were kind of going back and forth about this prior and you were like, how do you know if something's good?
Eva: Like what, what does even good mean? Right. Like when you create something and you share it and And how do you know it's good? And you said you're like, because like getting, getting likes doesn't mean that it's good. Like we both know that. And I was like, I don't know that. I didn't say that to you, but I was thinking, I was like, like, I get what you're saying.
Eva: Like on some intellectual level, like, yeah, you, I can say, yes. Like just because it has lots of traction or gets lots of attention doesn't does not define whether or not it's good or bad. However. It really pisses me off when I create something that I think is fucking good and it doesn't get traction.
Eva: Like, like, that annoys the fuck out of me. And, also, it's not, maybe it's not about whether it [00:51:00] determines, like, I know that validation does not determine whether or not something is good or bad, yet I don't want to make it wrong that I want
Eva: I don't like the word validation, but I do think there's a part of me that I don't think is wrong that wants some positive feedback that like, oh, this really resonated with me. Going back to like, I want to say something in a way that electrifies people. Thoughts? You're making a lot, yeah, you have lots of facial expressions going on.
Eva: Like, what? Tell me.
Kyley: Okay, uh, let me see if I can get this out succinctly. You want validation. And you want appreciation. You just want both things and it's helpful to write. You want appreciation. I mean, people be like, Oh my God, this really helped me. This is really cool. I hadn't thought of it this way. Right. You want like community engagement appreciation and you do want the validation of like, okay, a hundred people like this.
Kyley: Right. And
Eva: Well, yeah, so that's actually really interesting. The validation of a hundred people like this meaning because I do think that make my mind makes that [00:52:00] mean like, oh, that was good. Meaning it really resonated with people. And so if it really resonated with people, yeah, it was good. That's like,
Kyley: the, here's the, here's the problem that we all fall into. Okay. Okay. When want an external thing validate or mean something. We all do this all the time. Romantic love, revenue, cash bonus, your boss's approval, your dad's
Eva: a relationship, your body, like that kind of thing.
Kyley: right? Whatever it is, when you want that external thing to validate your goodness, we'll say, right?
Kyley: Some, some meaning that you're making. You can only receive that thing to the extent that you believe it already. If you want. Likes on Instagram to validate that you're, that it, that what you made is good, you can, your system literally can only receive to the extent that you [00:53:00] already believe that it's good. So it's not that the seeking of validation is wrong. It's just that your system will only absorb the amount of validation relative to how much you already independently believe that it's good. Right.
Eva: Okay. Wait. Mm hmm. Continue. I have thoughts on that, but do you want me to speak to that? Okay. Like, yes. Like, yes to that, that, that goes, that is in line with, like, everything that I believe, but I kind of want to play devil's advocate here because there's also a part of, like, like, argumentative, like, whiny part of me that wants, like, you know, argue back.
Eva: And essentially what I'm hearing you say is like, what we've talked before, what we've talked about before on this podcast is like, your nervous system, you can receive as much as your nervous system will allow for you to receive. And I think there's some truth to that. Like even like, um, yeah. Would you, would you agree with that?
Eva: Like, I think like we've talked about that right before.
Kyley: Yes, I want to add nuance, but keep
Eva: Okay. [00:54:00] So what is my like rebuttal though? Um, okay. So what if I like write this thing or whatever, and I think it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I genuinely think that it's good. Or maybe the, the, maybe, maybe what this is showing me is that I don't genuinely think it's good, but what if I like post this thing and I think it's really good and, and it's like, it's heartfelt, you know, like I fucking like, it is like, like, it's not just a post to me.
Eva: Like, this is me sharing like my heart and fucking soul or something, you know? And I'm super jazzed about it. And then it gets like two likes. I don't know if that means it's because I didn't actually think that it was good. Do you know, cause that's kind of what I'm hearing you say is that like, like, I think I actually know, thought that this was good.
Eva: And that's why I'm pissed because I'm like, no, this is good. And this deserves like space and recognition.
Kyley: Yes.
Eva: And that's where the anger [00:55:00] comes in. You know,
Kyley: Yeah, this is this like nebulous, I'm all excited because this is this nebulous thing that's been like moving through me for a little while. And so the language that I have to explain this energy that I've been feeling feels a little bit tricky. The, because I don't want to make some over, I think that's actually like a very toxic thing where we oversimplify like, well, you just don't believe it's good.
Kyley: So believe it's better and blah,
Eva: totally. That's like also like man, where manifestation gets toxic and yes.
Kyley: Exactly, exactly. But I think, I think there's something about so this is the second piece that I want to add. So essentially, on some level, I think our system will only receive to the extent that we think we're either worthy of, or if we're seeking validation, then we will only receive the amount of validation that feels safe.
Kyley: But there's this other way. Which, again, Villanera asks, then one of the ways that we normally try to, like, heal this is to, like, heal [00:56:00] the validation wound, right? That's like, well, what if I didn't need validation? And what if I could believe I was good? And blah, blah, blah. And I think that's great. And I think that can work.
Kyley: But there's this other thing I think we can do, which goes back to all our conversations lately about meaninglessness, which is, like, What the fuck does that, what the fuck does the, does the, what do you, what if social media was meaningless? What, like, like the art show where I'm doing collages with Birdie, what if it's meaningless, then you don't need to heal a validation wound. You can still want validation, but you can basically, like, enter this arena where validation itself is meaningless.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Or you can enter into this place where social media is, is meaningless. Doesn't, doesn't give you, it cannot give you value. It cannot tell you who you are.
Kyley: It cannot define anything. And then it's just a playground.
Eva: Yeah.
Eva: Hmm. Mm
Kyley: Healing a validation wound to me, I mean, it's helpful and it's, it's, it, it, it can be very healing, [00:57:00] but it's kind of slow and I'm impatient. And I think there's this other thing we can do where we just basically blow it. We look at what am I trying to make this mean? And what if this thing just didn't have to have that meaning?
Kyley: What if I still was an insecure weirdo who really wants the world to understand me and also social media just was liberated from being the arena where that had to happen? I don't know if this fully makes sense or if this is like accessible to everybody. Because this is kind of like alive and an edge in my own life right now.
Kyley: Um, I've been talking, teaching it about money a lot in alchemy, right? It's this idea that you could heal your story of worthiness around money, and there's room for that. And also, you could let, you could actually liberate money from meaning anything or proving, and maybe another way to think about it is like proving, right?
Kyley: Let money off the hook from proving anything, and then there's no resistance to it. So, in that dynamic, There's something that social [00:58:00] media and the likes is proving to you about your worthiness, people's willingness to choose you, right, all of these things, and you could heal each one of those individual wounds, but you could also just basically blow up the responsibility that social media is obligated to, or even has the possibility to prove anything,
Eva: No, I mean, it makes complete, it makes complete sense. And yeah, so therefore, I mean, in that paradigm, I 100 percent like, get what you're saying and I think what you're saying is incredibly important. And, like, a big piece of all of this, right? And that's kind of what I meant earlier when I said, like, I don't like that I give social media so much power. When I was pooh poohing on social media and I was like, oh, this thing that's like I give so much agency to is the sense of like, also because I could also make it not mean anything.
Eva: It doesn't have to be a place in which my [00:59:00] worth is validated or not. Like, it just doesn't have, I can remove the meaning from it. Right. But I think that's only possible if I'm not doing it to bypass. Like, I can see how I could be like, Which is, yeah, I'd be like, okay, well, then I'm just gonna like, not let it mean anything because I didn't actually want to address the fact that it hurts my feelings when it doesn't turn out the way that I want it to.
Eva: Do you know what I mean? Like, it needs to be, it needs to be authentic and legit. It can't be doing anything with an agenda.
Kyley: It's almost like I want you to, like, write out a list of all the things that you're making social media meet, right? Actually, like, sit with, like, what am I trying to prove to myself with social media? Or what do I think that the, this, this X kind, anyone can do this, right? Whatever's the thing that you want that somehow feels like, Urgh!
Kyley: Like, there and not there and just out of reach. Like, literally just list out all the things that you are trying to prove with that thing. And again, and so on one level, those are all [01:00:00] that list. Maybe you come up with 10, maybe you come with a hundred things that you're trying to prove with social media likes or money or whatever your thing is.
Eva: relationship or your body or money. Yes.
Kyley: So on one level that then gives you a list of like 10 things that 10 opportunities for you to love yourself better. And we do this fucked up thing in the healing spaces where we think, Oh, okay. Well, once I heal these 10 things, then I can have social media pop off. And that creates this conditional love model, right?
Kyley: It's this twisted, like healing as conditional love. If I'm really good and check off this list, then I can have adoration. You could be an insecure weirdo, because we all are, and see your list of like, these are all the places where I want to learn to love myself better. And I free, I liberate social media from being the place that can prove these things to me.
Kyley: And therefore, there's no fucking resistance. Come on [01:01:00] in. Everybody tell me how great I am in my insecure weirdo state. You're right. It can't be gaslighting. It has to be like, you got to look at the things you're trying. You have to see what you're trying to prove with the thing.
Eva: but, and, and we, and that list that you're talking about, the things that you're, that I'm trying to prove, that is actually the healing the wound piece, because, because, so they go kind of hand in hand is because what I don't like about, or not that I don't like about it, I think could be, uh, get distorted about this, this practice of like, not letting social media mean so much is that, um, There are wounds there that I think need to be addressed.
Eva: And so they, this, they go hand in hand. It's like, do the, do the healing work where, you know, whatever, if I'm looking at where my self worth is tied to validation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, do all of that. And also that second piece that you just said that I can't articulate because you did it really well, but it doesn't [01:02:00] need to be like, it is sort of what you're saying.
Eva: And what I said earlier, it's like, not, I don't need to make so much meaning out of social media. It is kind of giving social media, like a lot of power in which social media gets to decide and
Kyley: Right. And you can't, and this is the thing, right? You can't just say, Oh, I don't want to make it mean anything. And therefore it doesn't. Right. We have to see. And in some ways it's like a practice you come back to again. And I see it as like picking, you know, if you go like hiking, you can get those like burrs caught on your clothes.
Kyley: No, I see it as like picking up, like you find, Oh, here's this new thing that I'm making this mean. And it's, it's like two, you're doing, you have the opportunity to do two things at the same time. One is, Oh, okay. I'm Social media mean that I'm worthy of being chosen. Okay. That's a wound. I ha I just, I want to love myself through that so that I no longer feel unworthy of being chosen.
Kyley: And, and that might take a whole lifetime. So in the meantime, social media is off the hook. Social [01:03:00] media can't prove that to me anyway.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: So I like release it from that burden.
Eva: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I think it's a twofold thing.
Kyley: And the reason the
Eva: Yeah. Mm
Kyley: reason, the reason that I think there's like big magic here is because And this is what I was saying about our system. Our system can't receive, it's not safe to receive something. Okay. So say a hundred likes is proof that you're worthy of receiving, but your system isn't sure that you're worthy of receiving your system will reject the hundred likes, right?
Kyley: If you're trying to prove something that you don't believe you will reject it.
Eva: If you're trying to prove something that you don't believe, yes. But what if you do believe?
Kyley: So this is okay. So this is where. This is where it works to go through step by step and heal these individual wounds because then you believe it so then there's no resistance, but I'm kind of offering what I think is a [01:04:00] shortcut, which is keep healing those things but in the meantime, let yourself off the hook.
Eva: I see. So it doesn't, so, so even if I think this thing is good, let's see. I write this masterpiece, right? It's fucking heaven on earth. It's, you know, Monet and
Kyley: form. Yes, yes,
Eva: it's like, it's like the great, it's like the, the great Instagram post of 2024. You know, it's gonna change lives or whatever, but like, whatever, it's, and then no, nobody responds.
Eva: Meaning it, it is off the hook. Like, it, like Instagram is off the hook. Like, it doesn't have to mean, that's not where I get the validation.
Kyley: Right. And so you see, it's like you see, okay, I hold tenderly the part of myself. Who really wants validation. I hold tenderly the part of myself who's worried that she's not worthy of, you know, the validation from the world. I, I, I hold her. I see her and I I'm going to take care of her. I'm committed to you.
Kyley: I love you. And Instagram, it's not your job
Eva: Mm-Hmm.[01:05:00]
Kyley: So you just be Instagram. Do your fucking thing. Maybe you like, you know, maybe you like me today. Maybe you don't. It doesn't matter. You're not in charge. You're, you're not in charge of this wound. I am. And I've got
Eva: Yep. Yep, yep,
Kyley: it. And it's, and what happens is just that the resist, there's a, there's a resistance that falls away.
Eva: Mm-Hmm? . Mm-Hmm. . Yes. Yes.
Kyley: And so receiving, so your system, because the alternative is, that we'll only receive to the level of our, like, our, of our belief structure. But if, again, if you just, you just burst apart, if everything's meaningless, there's no resistance, right? And I talk about this with money a lot because I like to point out people, people who are on this, like, intensive money healing journey, which obviously you're my people, but like, Do you think Jeff Bezos has an unconditional well of self love?
Eva: Yeah. No. Yeah. . Yeah. Mm-Hmm.
Kyley: No, that dude fucking hates himself, right? Like, it's not required, but we make because, because we are on this path of healing, and so as a result, we're like bumping into the external things all the [01:06:00] time that give us a Uh, line down into healing, then we, we tell basically tell ourselves we can't have it until we heal it.
Eva: Mm-Hmm? . Yep. Yep, yep,
Kyley: And that's fine. That works, but it's
Eva: Well, uh, yeah, I guess it were. It's, but it's also unkind, you know, to, it's unkind. It's the same thing with manifestation. It's like, we have to get all of our thoughts really positive and in the right, in alignment, blah, blah, blah. Then we can finally have what we have. And if, and if your thoughts aren't Okay.
Eva: If you're not happy, you don't have what you want because you're doing it wrong.
Kyley: yes. Okay. Can I actually say something about that? Sorry. This is a little bit of a detour, but so with manifestation, people will say you have to be in a high vibration state. You can't be sad, right? If you're like, don't, you know, this is an oversimplification, but right. It's basically this idea of like, like, Okay.
Kyley: Be grateful because it's easier to receive when you're grateful. That's only because your brain believes it's easier to receive when it's grateful. Like I'm sad. I receive shit all the time and I'm sad because I believe [01:07:00] that my sadness is safe. Right. I don't, my
Eva: worthy of receiving and it's not bad. They have no negative connotations about sadness. Yeah.
Kyley: Right, right, right, right. Other emotions. I have more like, you know, I have more resistance to, but it's. So we, we create this idea of, um, yeah, we just make all these like false if then
Eva: Yeah. Rules. And Yeah, false if then, like rules how tos, like, that's the how to of mine, it's like, for that, that I fall into, it's like, okay, so how can I, what can I do, how can I do this? What's the one, two, three step? You know? Yeah,
Kyley: And then, yeah. And in some ways, and I don't want to bypass the like hangups that you have, that you have, cause I think they're valid and we've had lots of conversations on and offline about them, but I also think that there's something like, when I look at my kids, when they're like really like in the magical land of play, [01:08:00] just, They're just having their nothing means it right. It's not like it's not. I mean, some things mean things because birdie has a lot of rules when her imagination games and I want to be like now my queen flies and she's like, No, she doesn't.
Eva: Uh huh. She's like, mm mm. Mm mm.
Kyley: I was like, she has a strong artistic vision, but like, but it's not like my kids when they're in play mode they're not defining their bow because I think creative expression and play are kind of the same thing right they're not. So I You're not defining their value by how good they are at playing whatever the hell they're playing.
Eva: my God, this is so good. I feel like we're coming up to the end. Cause like we got, we we've got like a, you know, uh, a limit to our time today. Maybe we'll like continue this conversation after summer. And I wouldn't be surprised because creativity is like an ongoing theme here that we've explored. But I just feel like we're starting to touch on something juicy.
Eva: Cause we haven't even gotten to the [01:09:00] good parts of like, how good it feels to create just for fun. And like you said, it's play it basically like let's play. And. And that to me is true freedom. It's like being able to express yourself in whatever way that looks like it could be with dolls, you know, and it could be with painting and it could be with music or whatever.
Eva: It's like being able to express yourself and it's not
Eva: It's not high stakes. You're not going to be judged. Um, it doesn't, your safety isn't cut tied to it, you know, and it's, it's just for the pure joy of creation, which I think is so natural to us. And then, and how could that feels like it feels really good when we can get into those, those states. And then again, sorry, I feel like we tease that this would be about sex.
Eva: And I feel like we did not deliver because there could have been more, but I just will say like,[01:10:00]
Kyley: whatever it's the anticipation is makes it all the better. So just get excited for the
Eva: Okay. No, I do want to share one thing because I think,
Kyley: actually have a question. I have a question for you. So say you're ready
Eva: okay. So Kylie and I have taken, I've taken this, like, what do you call it? A singing class? I don't even know.
Kyley: Yes, yes, but it's not a, it's not a
Eva: Traditional singing class. Yes. And let's, we'll talk about that more after the summer too, because, um, just, there's lots to say about that. We hope to have our teacher on the show, but one of the first weeks, what we learned is that the anatomy of your throat and your larynx, I think, I don't know if I'm getting this accurate.
Eva: Someone else is going to be like, no, it's not accurate, but whatever. Something, something where we, our throat, where we like. Where we speak from, and also the anatomy of our Yoni is exactly the same. And it's also like made out of the same tissues. It's like basically the same thing. It's just one is down there and one's up here.
Eva: And when I heard that, because then I was like, what the teacher had said was like, and yeah, that's why these two areas are like, these are our two areas of [01:11:00] expression of creation. And I was like, totally fucking blown away. And I was like, that just feels so beautiful to me. But also there was, then it was this realization of like, oh yeah, it was like, like sexuality and intimacy in this way with another human being or however you experience it with yourself, whatever.
Eva: It's like, that is. That is creative. That is play. That is expression. And it was, and I saw how I'm very thankful that that's a place where I feel quite free and it's, and it, there's no means to, you know, I don't, I don't need to like share this with anyone. I don't need to like do this and then get clients.
Eva: It's just like, it's just for me, like you, like maybe I don't have, you know, we have different areas in which we're identified with things. And for me, this is just like a very free flowing place. And as a. It was just helpful for me to see that because I think it's like, okay, so I can take that and apply that to other areas of my life.
Eva: And so I think we all have areas of our life where we feel really, really free, where we don't even know that it's [01:12:00] a place where I'm supposed to, where we're supposed to feel insecure because it comes naturally to us. And then other areas where we can feel really tight. And so it's about maybe
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: taking that one experience and applying it to another place, place of your life.
Kyley: So this is kind of the question that I had for you then. What, what would it look like or feel like for writing on Instagram to feel like sex?
Eva: Wow. Oh my
Kyley: but like that kind of like They're uninhibited. I am safe. Pleasure is primary, right?
Eva: god. Okay, I'm gonna come out. I'm gonna be sharing some like, pretty personal, just like, maybe TMI information, and I hope my family is not listening, but like, what would that be like? Because I'm like, well, why is that possible for me and sex? It's like, one, I don't need to prove anything and I'm just like, [01:13:00] what would that be like?
Eva: And again, I don't, maybe you asked this question for me to answer later. Think about more. But immediately I was like,
Kyley: Oh no, our listeners want the answer now.
Eva: I was like, I know I'm good at sex. Like, I just know, I just know because I'm having a good time. And if I'm having a good time, the other person's having a good time. Like maybe not necessarily, but there is some like, that's what it is. It's like, I'm relaxed in the moment. I'm like, and I do think that's actually, actually the thing that I just said, I just I'm clocking as like, Oh, I do think that that's true.
Eva: Like if one person's like really fucking comfortable, it can help the other person be really fucking comfortable. And I'm just like having a great fucking time. And I like, and there's just like this confidence that isn't confidence. You know what? It's trust. It's different from confidence. It's like, I just know.
Eva: And I've been, so therefore I'm not thinking about like, is this good or is this not good? And Oh, it's good. And I'm confident. No, no, no. Like confidence that has still mind involved where you have to like, know that you're good. Like I'm not even fucking thinking about it because I don't care because. I'm having a great time and [01:14:00] I don't know, you know, there is this like trust of like, I don't even need to think about it.
Kyley: I really love what you said a couple times here, which is that I'm having a good time. You've said I'm having a good time a bunch, bunch. And I think there's something about what I'm hearing you say is that what you also trust is If I center my, like, if I center my pleasure, not in a selfish way, but right, if I just center, if I pursue the things that feel good
Eva: Mm hmm.
Kyley: and I follow those and I say yes to pleasure, then everybody gets more pleasure.
Eva: Yes. Yes. Thank you so much for clocking that and asking it. First of all, asking the question and then also tying it all together and seeing the parallels. It's a, it's a sense of like, what I, what is, what I experienced. in sex that I miss, that I can see is missing in, in like, you know, Instagram, like creative expression through words is like, I'm like, Oh, I'm having a good time.
Eva: And [01:15:00] just trusting that that means everyone else is having a good time.
Kyley: Yeah,
Eva: but like not needing and not needing, not being actually, there is like an absence of like needing and neediness of validation,
Kyley: because I feel like,
Eva: I think, because you're saying, sorry, I'm retarding, but you were saying like, it's not the responsibility of other people on Instagram to like my shit.
Eva: Like I'm putting all that responsibility on them. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's
Kyley: and your desire because you want safety and you because you want these things that you deserve. It's just, they'll always feel hollow when they come. Because that's the other thing, right? Even when we get them, if we don't, if we don't, if we don't really believe that we deserve them, then they, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't last the feeling of it doesn't last.
Kyley: But I think the other thing I'm hearing you say is like, you know, I'm imagining [01:16:00] like. You go to, like, move in a certain kind of way in sex, and it, like, you realize midway through, wait a minute, this isn't gonna work. I can just imagine you just, like, laughing and, like, moving,
Eva: Totally. Totally. Yes. Yes.
Kyley: like, oh, no!
Kyley: Right.
Eva: loud voice that's like, like, it's like, you know, and it totally takes me out of the moment. Cause I'm in my head. I will also say, though, like, so sex is very much like, going back to something we mentioned in the beginning, so I was like, sex is like, I'm in my body.
Eva: So how does one write from their body? Because that's another way in which, like, you're, you're, you're, you're very intelligent question, like, you know, what, what, how can I bring more of what's going on in sex into, like, words?
Kyley: Mm hmm. Okay, uh, Ira Glass. You know who Ira, you know Ira
Eva: You know, no, we've talked about this. You both had a crush on him and
Kyley: Yes. So well before the podcast, even I went other sides of the world listening for hours and hours a day to Ira Glass.
Eva: on this, on this American life. If you guys don't already know. Yeah.
Kyley: yeah, right. So that's the [01:17:00] podcast inspo. Um, he has this really great quote where, where he basically says, If you want to be good at something artistic, creative, you have to just get ready to make a ton of shit and that one of the things that he talks about that's hard when you're creative is that part of you have for a while you have good taste and you're not very good at executing, right?
Kyley: So you like love music and that's why you want to make it. But you don't have the skill set yet to make exceptional music. And you basically, it's like you just have to commit to the fact that you will make bad art for a long time. And then eventually your skill level will match your taste level. And that it's hard in the beginning because your taste just exceeds your skill level.
Kyley: And I've been thinking of that quote a lot in this conversation. So I just wanted to bring that back in that part of I think the freedom comes from actually just giving yourself permission to make a lot of bad [01:18:00] art, whatever your art form is. Um, and because that's the equivalent of like, Oh, that's a weird move.
Kyley: That's a weird position. Got to move. No big deal is the equivalent of like, Oh yeah, I made some bad art, whatever. Fuck it. I'm going to make more tomorrow. Um, I will say for me, that's part of what I, when I do like social media, that's part of what I love about it. Like the churn is exhausting, but the churn is also like, Who gives a shit if nobody sees it because I'll just make something new again three days later, right?
Kyley: Like, no one thing matters that much. Um, to be clear people, I have lots of other things that I ascribe a lot of meaning and value to and like desperately want validation. It's just like, let's be clear. So on some level, I think the, like, I think the answer is, That it, it starts now, right? Cause this, this awareness is new for you.
Kyley: That's what if social media was like about embodiment and like pleasure first. And, [01:19:00] and this, what if this is the beginning of you being at having the answer to that question?
Eva: mm-Hmm.
Kyley: Cause for me, I know. Okay. So I was like, we'll batch TikTok videos, right? Where I just like sit in my car and like plan to record for an hour.
Kyley: Cause the inspiration has stuck me and I make a whole bunch of videos. And I know how it feels in my body when I'm like, yeah, these are fun. Like I'm having fun. I'm on a roll. Like this is flowing. These will be fun and interesting. And, and so I like, I know how it feels when I've made it in that place.
Kyley: And so then it's just like, okay, cool. These will, these will, yeah. And so I just, there's like a, there's a way it feels the same thing when I'm like making the sandwiches and I get an idea, I know the feeling of the idea when it's like, oh, this is one I really want versus like, no, you'll come back
Eva: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah.
Kyley: And so
Eva: Mm-Hmm.
Kyley: I think the answer is. It's yours [01:20:00] to figure out.
Eva: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I totally. Yes. And I do think you're right about like this being the beginning meaning and thankfully I've had enough life experience because before a couple years ago, if you had said that to me, I would be like, no, but I want to know the how I think I've had enough life experience of being like, actually, basically you.
Eva: What I've already done by having this conversation and being like, totally candid about all this shit and setting the intention of like, Oh, this is what I want. I want to learn, learn what it means to express, uh, vocally through writing, whatever, through words from my body. Like it, it's already, it's, it can already have, it's already set in motion.
Eva: If I am really open.
Kyley: Which is interesting. Oh, go ahead. Sorry,
Eva: Yeah, that's it.
Kyley: One thing that we didn't talk about at all, which is kind of funny is it's like not being attached to the outcome, which is I think really [01:21:00] hard because what we're talking about here are things that want,
Eva: Yeah, like you said, it's tied to our livelihood, it's tied to safety, like, that's, it's not just like, yeah, if we didn't, if I didn't use social media for work, I would ne I never cared about this shit before I started. I was never even on social media that much, you know, before, um, my job. And so, uh, that's, mm
Kyley: but even if it's not tied to like, for you, it's tied to livelihood. I mean, for me, like I do want to write a book. I do want to like, Be like touring speaker, right? Like, I do actually want
Eva: mm hmm.
Kyley: this creative self expression in a really big way and, um, and I say that because sometimes it's a means to an end, but.
Kyley: But, but sometimes I think there is some, like, again, I think you do want to speak in a way that activates people, whether it's social media or elsewhere. Um, and, and I think, I [01:22:00] think that desire is meaningful. And it's, it's again, the nuance of like, I actually really want this. I actually really want creative expression.
Kyley: That's meaningful. And, and I want my language to have an impact or my art to have an impact, whether it's in scope or just right. Like one person's really touched by it. that is, that is a true desire. It's not, even though I'm saying it, the secret is to make it meaningless. It's not meaningless. It is really meaningful for you.
Kyley: And. It's like seeing that, honoring that, I do really want this, and I'm unattached to it.
Eva: Mm hmm. Cause I actually don't know what I, I feel like I strongly somebody say to that, but that's just going to lead us a whole down a whole nother hole. So that's just, I'm happy just there. Oh,
Kyley: Do you feel complete? Do you feel like we got you somewhere good?
Eva: oh, totally. Totally. How do you feel?[01:23:00]
Kyley: Um, I want to record three more episodes on this topic.
Eva: dude, I, so do I, I'm like, I, cause we didn't, yeah, we didn't get to talk. There's, there's more to say about
Kyley: Yeah. Like one of the things that's really hard for me is, Is inspiration feels like, and this is a very ADD thing, right? It feels like the lightning strike. And so there's a freedom of like, and anyone with ADD knows like the lightning strikes and you fucking list, like you got to respond to it because it could be weeks until lightning strikes again.
Kyley: And there's, there's a kind of, there's a deliciousness in that. And also there's a kind of reactivity in that isn't always helpful. And one of my One of the, like, you can't write a book that way. I mean, you technically could, but it would take you 20 years. Right. And so, and that could be okay, but I would prefer, I would prefer to like invite my creativity in more intentionally.
Kyley: And so that's one of, that's an edge for [01:24:00] me that I actually think you probably would have a lot of wisdom on because it feels like something you might have in some ways deeper access to. So that's my, when we come back to this topic, that's one thing.
Eva: Okay. Great. We'll continue to explore. Thank you. Just for giving. This space allowing me to be like, I want to talk about this and you being like, let's do it.
Kyley: true. That's what we do.
Eva: what we do.
Kyley: Do we do joy?
Eva: Yes, our last joy before the summer. Okay, let me check in for myself and see really quick. What's my joy? Okay, I have two simple things.
Kyley: first.
Eva: Okay. Um, well, I made banana bread for the first time yesterday. Have you ever made banana bread? Okay, yeah, I think that's one of the main things, like, if you're ever going to bake something, it'd be like banana bread, but
Kyley: And also, it's like, I feel like half the time people make it, they're like, Ah, these fucking bananas are brown. It's like, it's something you make out of, like, obligation almost?
Eva: yes. It's like, it comes to save your obligation, but also saves you because then you don't feel like you're wasting bananas. But that's actually why I [01:25:00] learned how to make banana bread is because we grow bananas here. And so there's just a ton of bananas that end up going to waste. And, um, I'm not a baker.
Eva: I don't think I think maybe it's like the second thing I've ever baked in my entire life. Maybe I'm like not a baker also because I'm not a huge sweets person. I also have kids. So like, I feel like you start baking more when you have kids also. Yeah. I've always baking also big. That's so interesting to me because I would think that the reason I don't like baking is because it's so specific.
Eva: It's like, you have to follow the measurements. It has to be like a teaspoon of this or whatever. And I'm like, No, I
Kyley: you would think that you would think I would hate it, but no, I love it.
Eva: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Cause that's why I don't like it. And also I'm not a sweets person. And so, yeah, I'm never gonna anyway. So, but the point is I did really enjoy it and it's cool like to be like, Oh, I can, I make this out of scratch with bananas that we grew from our backyard. And also it's delicious.
Eva: You smother that shit and butter. Oh my God. So good. So that's fun. And another thing that's bringing me joy is, um, been [01:26:00] dancing more. Like I've been calling in more, I've danced into my life. I don't know. It's actually, sorry, I'm just taking a moment to recognize and acknowledge the things I've been calling into my life are, have come in.
Eva: And I think that's kind of what I mean. Like maybe a calling in, like, I want to understand what it means to express myself for my body more through, through words. Yeah, you can call it and it'll come in. So like I was calling in singing and then you sent this class to me and I feel like it, it's like, is more an embodied part of my life now and also dancing more.
Eva: And I'm always trying to call in more dance. So this is an ongoing thing, but I've been playing with, Oh, I took a dance class last weekend of the horror, which is like this traditional Brazilian dance. And it's like so fun and it's so cute. And I just fucking love the South American vibe. And also doing this new thing called touch, not new, but new for me called touch dance.
Eva: And it's literally just like listening to this. wild tribal music. I sound so new age, but it's like so awesome. It's so good. [01:27:00] And you basically close your eyes and just move the way that your body wants to be moved. It's like a meditation of sorts. It's basically what you're talking about. It is a meditative thing where, you know, practicing not being the doer.
Eva: Like if I'm not the doer and if I'm not breathing, I'm being breathed. It's also like, so what would it be like if To the best of my ability. I took my mind out of it and just let life move me the way that I wanted to be moved and to listen to that, and then to do this dance in partnership with other people too.
Eva: It's been, yeah. Really cool.
Kyley: some of any of these songs in particular, because I love that. That's so it's, it's funny. Cause I was actually, I had two things too. And one of them was going to be also about dance. Um, because I have found. Yeah, I like put on my big noise cancelling headphones and just put on some intense song.
Kyley: It helps when it's intense. Sometimes it's slow, but I'm like, anyways, and I just get moved. One [01:28:00] time I was at a retreat and. It was a huge room and they had everyone you closed your eyes. And it was it was like, don't even like you're not you're just you're just moving all by yourself. No, no, you're not doing this with anybody else.
Kyley: Like you could open that you open your eyes, but the intention was just like, you're in It's just you and your body. And it was one of the most liberating experiences. And so I do my own version of that in the morning. So I would love to know more
Eva: Oh my God. I'm gonna send you this music right away because it is like, it's like, and I, when I discovered it, I was like, oh, this is the music I've been looking for for my entire life. It's so. It's just, yeah, it's great. But, um, but yes, and yes, when I do this dance, it's also like our eyes are closed and my eyes are closed.
Eva: And we also do this on re on the retreat on this, on the retreats that we did here in Brazil and that we're going to be doing, it's like, first of all, it's so good to like move and you're processing trauma, letting go of things that you want to move it through your body. But then to also do this kind of particular dance, I think it's like really, really [01:29:00] delicious.
Eva: So groovy.
Kyley: And there's something so, I mean, to the point of our whole conversation, there's something so liberating. I don't have the same like ease in my body that you do, right? That's it's, but that's been a long journey for me and like the confidence and trust in my body. And so there's something really, really freeing about like, it doesn't, there's, there's no good dancing here, right?
Kyley: That's something that there's, there's, there's just your, how do your hips want to move and how to, this isn't about like, Even trying to make it match the song if you don't want to just like what wants to move how and when and there is, I mean, it makes me cry a lot of times because it's just a really new, not brand new at this point, but it's, you know, you know, only a couple of years old. Way of being in my body and, and I, okay. My other joy
Eva: Yes.
Kyley: One is just summer, [01:30:00] like driving around with my windows down and my sunglasses on, which I can only find half the time. No one is surprised and an ice coffee and the music playing is just like the best fucking vibe.
Kyley: Just iced coffee, sunglasses. With a warm sun and the breeze,
Eva: Yes. I hear you,
Kyley: there's nothing, there's nothing better. And then the other thing that I will share is I have, um, a very dear friend. Who we've been orbiting each other for years. This was, this was a woman who taught was my yoga teacher when I did yoga teacher training.
Kyley: And we've just always like been deeply in love with each other, but right. Just that kind of like resonance is like, Oh, you're my person, but I see her like twice a year and you know, whatnot. And anyway, they occasionally asked me to do closing, help host the closing ceremony for yoga teacher training. Um, Uh, and so I recently saw her and it was like, [01:31:00] finally, like, Oh, and it was like, finally time.
Kyley: And then she came over my house for tea last week. And we just had this beautiful conversation. I don't even know what we talked about. It didn't matter. It was, we both messaged her afterwards. We're like, my heart is just like floating. It was just really, it really feels like we've, um, just been like orbiting each other.
Kyley: And now it's time to be like, to actually be close as humans instead of just orbit. And anyway, so she's coming over again in two weeks and, uh, I messaged her and I was like, she's an incredible yoga teacher and, um, uh, like really incredible yoga teacher. And I was like, Radhika, I'm already planning. I was like, I'm trying not to turn everything into work, but I'm already planning the retreat.
Kyley: So we're going to host. She's like, I know me too. It's fine.
Eva: Oh my God. I love that. But also, yes, I just love the satisfaction and the fulfillment when someone who you like immediately connect with, you know, who you're like, Oh, I want this to be my people. Um, especially in the midst of like having really busy lives.[01:32:00]
Kyley: Yes. Yes. And, um, and feeling like. Just feeling like, Oh, you, I don't know. There's something so sweet about and sacred about knowing that someone sees you, you know, and, um,
Eva: Oh
Kyley: yeah, so I guess new friendship, iced coffee and sunglasses in the summer and dancing.
Eva: I love it. Sounds like. Yeah. Start of a good summer.
Kyley: We love you all. See you in the fall
Eva: Yes. Thanks for listening and come follow us over at Instagram. So if you want to keep in touch with our shenanigans and,
Kyley: and ticked off. Cause I.
Eva: Oh yeah. And tick tock. Cause Kylie's Kylie Kylie's making moves on tick tock.
Kyley: Yeah, I want to, I want, I want to lean as far into TikTok as I can before it's gone. My new strategy is like, Oh, is the U. S. government get rid of it? This is my platform now.
Eva: Cool. Cool. Cool. All right. We love you guys. Have a wonderful summer.