This week is a deep dive on money, anti-capitalism, and ethical business with artist and author Sarah Faith Gottesdiener.
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Hello. Hello.
Hi, friends.
Welcome to Hello Universe,
We're very excited for this week's episode as usual.
Yeah. Yeah, this was a really juicy episode and also hilarious because our guest came on and had that day, like lost her power cord and had, we were basically racing the clock because she, her computer was gonna die and then we were just cut off. So,
so this is probably the shortest Hello Universe in in hi. In our history since you know, if you listen to the podcast, you know we love to talk
Yeah, but I was great. We got, we went real deep, real fast. Somehow the time constraint, I think created an efficiency
yeah. Maybe that's something we can learn from.
Yeah. Um, yeah, so this was, this was a really fun conversation about, well before we, we'll, we'll dive into what topics. So before we do that, Eva, do you have anything? Cooking sim.
Yes, I am doing another round of my meditation program for people whose lives are affected by addiction, and I'm very excited because I've done this before. It was such an amazing experience for me and for all the participants. Um, , it's, I mean, if you are someone, and you know, it's funny cuz like when you start promoting these things, you start talking a lot of people and you see a lot of people are affected by addiction, which like, duh, we all know.
But at the same time, I feel like sometimes it's not really talked about enough. So, you know, if you are someone who, um, you have a loved one in your life, whether it's a parent, a child, , you know, a partner, a friend who's just deep in the throes of any kind of addiction. You know that it is like a family addiction.
It affects everybody around that person. And, um, this program is sort of Al-Anon adjacent. Meaning, you know, there's like this program Al-Anon that. You know, some people really love, I'm a, I'm kind of a fan of, but I also know people don't love Al-Anon because it's got that sort of aa vibe. It doesn't click with anybody.
With everybody. So if you're someone who has either tried Al-Anon and wants something different, um, or even if you like Al-Anon, I think this program could be a good alternative to sort of commune with other people who have had a shared experience. If you're looking for understanding and relief. you know, learning about clear boundaries, uh, together as a group, I think you'll really find the support that you're looking for.
So I don't yet know what date this is gonna be launched, but I'm just gonna, just kind of giving that people the heads up that it's starting soon and the next couple weeks. So, um, kind of just put it on your radar. If it's something you're interested in, you can send me a message on Instagram and I'll, we can, yeah.
I'll show you with you the.
I know, I know. Someone who went through last round and had nothing but wonderful things to say
Oh yeah,
nourishing it was. And you know, it's funny because I've been thinking addiction has popped up on my radar recently because I was, I've been helping to a friend who has a loved one who's, you know, recently decided to, um, look at their own addiction.
And it's funny. I have a lot of experience with addiction between like, you know, just, um, not, addiction may not be the word, but like, it's like been in the culture of my fam, my extended family for a long time. Like people with varying levels of awareness around their relationship to, um, alcohol and substance.
And in talking to this friend, it's clear. Oh, that's just not your experience of the world. Right. Which also kind of blew my mind because it's so like baked into the fabric. Both people who've gotten sober and done incredible things with their lives and also people who haven't. And it was interesting holding space for my friend who was like, yeah, I don't actually know anything about this.
Oh, well what? Let me tell you. Um, but that also made me think about how. when you do have a long call. His like family history of addiction. There's, there's, there's something helpful there because there's like a, I think there becomes an awareness and an understanding, but also it can normalize the way in which you may have developed or coping mechanism or learned coping mechanisms cuz they've been the fabric of your Holt right.
Your grandmother and your mom and Right. Like there's all sorts of ways that, um, , there can be a shared understanding, but also shared coping habits that aren't very helpful. Um, and so I don't know, I I'm just thinking of your program from like an ancestral, like an ancestral legacy standpoint and the way in which even if you're not in the throes of like a, b a loved one with active addiction, it's still can just be so woven through.
Yeah.
of who you are, um, in a way that I think basically, I think there's a lot of people who could use your program, even if they don't have a like, oh, this exact person in my current life is an addict.
Yes. Yes. I'm actually so glad that you brought that up because a lot of people who were in the last round, I mean, I wanna be clear, you may not have someone who's in the throes of addiction, like an active addiction right now, but like maybe you grew up with an addict. You know what I mean? That stuff stays with you and then you, you develop these like trauma responses or these coping mechanisms, like you say, like maybe you have a hard time trusting other people.
That's like a huge one that comes up all the time. , that's a result of you having had addiction in your family or your experience. And so this course is really about continuing to like look at those things and heal those things in community with other people with a big spiritual element to it because, you know, that's just the work that I do.
Um, and I really believe that the practice of meditation can be just a really supportive tool, um, in. Embodying a lot of what you will learn in this course. So yeah, I'm excited. This is a program that I'm really proud to share with people because this work is very near and dear to my heart.
Yeah. Yeah.
All right, so that's me.
What about you, Kai?
Um, so enter your villain. Era is open now. Uh, if you've been listening in chronological order, at first, this was a workshop and jk, now it's a six week course.
Because it couldn't just be contained.
Yeah, it's just way too juicy of a topic. And uh, also just that's also often my creative process. Like I get the kernel of an idea and then it just continues to kind of grow and evolve. Liz will sometimes be like, we have to act now before you turn this into some giant mons.
That is hilarious.
She's not wrong. Um, but I am so jazzed. So, um, it's a six week program. Enter your villain era. The price is obviously 6 66. Like what else would you charge
Of course genius.
your villain era. Um, but, uh, , um, I, I don't think I've ever had as much fun in a launch in my entire.
Hmm.
Um, and I think that just speaks to, I don't know how ready I am to share this and how much the vibe of the, um, program is like, just like light, like
What if you weren't wrong? What if things were a party? Wouldn't that be fun? Like what if there wasn't a problem to solve? What if you got to like cackle maniacally your way through life? Wouldn't that be fucking
Mm-hmm.
Um, . Oh, you were gonna say something?
I would say like basically, what if you were fucking free, essentially?
What if you were free? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
And um, and. It just, I'm just so jazzed. So it's really looking, it's really a space for, uh, for freedom, for liberation and for specifically liberation from that nagging inner critic who's just can't be satisfied. Right. Who we can acknowledge is a self protector, even if misguided. Right. But it's this, I think so many of us have this like, Kind of persistent, almost neurotic drive to like be good, to be better, to fix things, right?
So we're constantly unsatisfied. You have a big accomplishment, and then immediately there's the voice that's like, well, that wasn't really good enough. Or You can't really trust that, or you wanna take a big risk and. Put yourself out there and immediately you feel like, well, who the fuck's gonna want?
Right? There's all, all of the ways in which we cut ourselves down before anyone else even gets a chance to. Um, is this like kind of vicious inner critic who pretends to care about like being good, right? Good in terms of like earning goodness, earning people's approval, doing the right thing. But the secret about the inner critic, She's never actually satisfied.
She's actually her primary, I'm using her cuz that's my gender. But, you know, slot in your own relationship to the inner critic. But um, like the inner, she's never satisfied. And in fact, her drive is specifically to point out that you are always wrong.
Mm-hmm.
So a lot of us think like, we'll arrive at this place, well, we'll satisfy this inner critic voice that will arrive at this place where we finally feel like, oh, okay, finally I'm good.
But it doesn't come from. That loop. It actually from, comes from opting out of that loop, um, which is what villain era is really a celebration of. Um, and if you care about how the course is laid out, which I haven't even actually really shared yet, I've just been like vibes.
Yeah.
been promoting it.
It's just like vibes,
Yeah, and I love the vibe. So the memes right now are on fire.
Yeah. Um, but the, the, the layout is that as I, as the format as started to reveal itself, um, the energy of like the dark goddess energy step forward, right? Like all of these, like the ways in which we are powerful and have rejected the sources of our power kind of came forward. And in particular, six different dark goddesses were like, I will take a week, please.
And so, each week there's, um, Liz and I are creating like a activation from each of these dark goddesses. Um, that's less like, here's a message from Lilith and more like, here's an injection of Lilith, d n a . Um, and, and then we will meet so that you'll receive that and you can listen to it once. You can listen to it a hundred times.
And then we'll meet live for like a weaving and a sharing and an unfolding and unpacking. Um, and. as someone who's been sitting in the magic of the container itself for a couple of weeks, I can just feel this like the, the, the fucking ecstasy and delight and freedom and, um, glee that is this container.
And so I like really can't wait for everybody to like, you know, I can't wait for it to start because, um, I can just feel how. exquisite. It is already
Yeah. I mean, this is a program that I think because this comes up in with. Clients a lot too, but meaning I think a lot of women deal with this. It's this idea of like, needing to be good all the time or like worrying what other people think. Or like, did I offend someone? Or if I do this, does it make me a bad daughter, a bad sister, like a bad mom, a bla a bad blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Um, I feel like this is like the crux of really getting to the core of, um, an entry point for liberation for many of us, which is like, what if you were. , you're damn self and you are really honest and you let yourself want what you wanted and felt what you felt, and you are who you are without needing aol, without apology or shame and the truth, the story always is well, but if I do that, then something bad will happen or, um, I'm gonna hurt some people.
But the truth is I really believe that we hurt more people and bad things, more bad things happen when we aren't authentic and like allowing ourselves to really just be ourselves. And that's like the, like the irony of it all. We're trying so fucking hard to be good, but it's not actually in the long run anyway, giving us the result that we truly want, which is like to be like just completely, um, honest with people.
Yeah. Yeah. And like the way in which trying to be liked, I've been thinking actually this would be a fun, deeper dive on the podcast at some point, but I've been thinking a lot about how our efforts to be liked and our resistance to being disliked actually make it harder for us to experience being loved. You know, um, , I
Ooh, that's good. Yeah.
Yeah. There's a lot there. And they made some video the other day about how our efforts to be liked and be good are actually manipulation. Right. Which is like a pretty well established thing in codependent school of thought. And I got my first like legit haters.
Like people were like you, someone called me a low life
What? Wow. I mean that, that's always a good sign though. You know when you're like pushing
I mean, in launching villain era, if I didn't appear villainist to someone, I am missing the mark. So I was just delighted by this. But, um, but I think that also speaks to how actually, like scary it is to unhook, right? You might see what, you know, codependent patterns or you might see the inner critic, or you might see like these patterns that we're speaking to, but.
you've opted into them for survival. So unhooking from them, uh, can be, can feel dangerous. Right? That's why villain reef, that's why it feels dangerous. Right. Um, and also, and also that's why I'm jazzed for this program because freedom feels scary. So come and come and unhook, uh, and be held at the.
Yeah. Woo. I love it. Yay. Cool. Sounds awesome.
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Very. Just, um, should we talk about our episode today?
Well, yeah, let's, let's introduce our amazing guest.
Oh my gosh. Okay. So, Sarah Faith, God is an artist, an author, a business owner, um, an all around, uh, It's just magical human with many great insights. And in particular in this episode, we do a deep dive into looking at money, abundance, anti-capitalist culture. It's the kind of conversation that I think generally just isn't happening enough of looking at how we can take care of our needs while also seeking to dismantle these really toxic systems that we are all walking around and, and living and breathing.
Um, and. . If you are someone who exists in capitalism, you will benefit from this episode.
Yeah. I would say like we talk a lot about like ethical, running an ethical business, which as a business owner was, you know, infinitely helpful. But also as a consumer it's helpful because I think what happens, like, cuz we're all part of it, even if you're a consumer, we are. , you play into the system of like, okay, well if you need something immediately or if you need, you know, like there's all these things that come into play once you begin to understand like, well, what does ethical business look like?
You're like, well, how can I also be an ethical consumer? Um, yeah. And I think she is just really thoughtful about her, the way that she does things. She has, she runs like Moon Studio, which is, um, this pretty like amazing, I think like organization that she's got going on. She sells a bunch of. Wonderful goodies and I just appreciated somebody in this business space, uh, who to be in the presence of someone who I think is doing the damn thing.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The kind of, um, there's a lot of glitzy talk about money in the online business space and to have someone who has really embodied a different way of walking through the world is always really refreshing. So this is a great conversation.
enjoy.
Sarah, we are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to Hello Universe.
thanks so much for having me.
Yeah. Um, okay. We'll jump right in with our first question, which is what is life teaching you right now?
Life is teaching me to, is teaching me organization and patience right now.
Is that because those things feel hard,
Yeah. I mean, is does life teach you anything that is.
I think my question was sort of like, I was curious where in the spectrum you are. Right. Because I feel like when I'm, when the, when I'm. When life is teaching me something like organization, there's a moment where I just am, uh, rebelling against it, and then there's a moment where I soften into it and then there's a moment where it like really is taking care of me.
And I think, I'm kind of curious where in the spectrum you might be.
you're super, that could not be the most beautiful, that is the most beautiful explanation of that process, right? Once you get to the part where you understand it's taking care of you. For me it's def I'm definitely past resistance. Like I've definitely acknowledged certain orgs, um, but I'm not at the, I've been trying to retrain my neuro pathways so that I can associate organization with. not merely contentment, but maybe excitement or I don't know what, so that's where I am with that. And that requires me to be patient. So I consider myself a pretty patient person other people. I will frequently find myself. I, I have like a long rope. And then once it's, once I'm at the end of it, we're done.
And it's usually, there's usually conversations that are had beforehand, whether or not the other person chooses to notice that that's what's happening. Like I was just like telling my friend the other night, there's a, for some reason I don't, some people, maybe you've noticed this with some people, you can say like, Hey, I think that I am almost on my way out the door.
right? And then they'll, they like, they won't understand. And so finally you have to like get up and you have to be like, I'm on my way out the door. And some people like won't understand what's happening. And, and then you're like, I gotta go. Like, I'm gone. We gotta go. And you have to walk out the door. So I think that's actually, I'm, it's actually kind of gonna be a theme, I think of 2023 of certain situations where we've been saying to the other person or to our future self,
Um,
this isn't working.
Or, Hey, I need this. And we're saying it in our inside voice, right? We're saying it in our loving voice. Right? And, and we, at a certain point, we either have to accept that we're not being heard and we have to proceed accordingly. We might have to say it a little bit louder. or in a way that feels more urgent because a lot of people's nervous systems sort of only take kind of when we're at 11.
Although I hate that. Like I actually, that's one of the things I really dislike, but I grew up in a family where you had to like scream in order to be like, people thought you were serious about something. It's, I don't do that anymore, but I know of a lot of people who are like that. So, back to patience.
I'm quite patient with other people, but I am fostering more patience within myself. I'm really, I can be really impatient with myself, especially when I'm learning new things.
Mm.
I can be really hard on myself and, and really impatient. So we're in a cheerio year, so I'm trying to not be so impatient with myself.
I'm trying to not revert to, you know, like any more negative self-talk than I need, which is zero . No one, no one needs it. So I'm, I am learning organization and so alongside that, I'm learning patience.
uh, first of all, I didn't know it was a chariot here,
I don't Wait. What? What is territ year? I don't know what that means.
you can.
so if you're a tarot scholar like myself, Gregorian calendar year corresponds to a number. So last year, if you add up of the numbers in the year, this is a Numerologist perspective. It's not like based in any kind of reality that any of us would be taught at any time, right? It adds up. So last year added up to six.
So we were in a lover's year.
Okay.
the themes of Major Arcon. Permeated relationships, choice, different levels of consciousness, love relating, codependency, enmeshment, attachment
Even does this feel relevant to your 2022
I'm, I'm, I'm just, for some context, I'm just coming out of a, a part of a split with my long-term partner and there's a lot of co-dependency things, so I'm just like, yep. Yep. This is all checking out
Lots of breakups happen. I'm so sorry that you're going through that. Lots of people lost friends, like long-term f like lots of intimate breakups. And also a lot of community breakups happened last year where we thought, oh, these people, I thought, and a lot of it, I think, of course, let's like put aside tarot.
I mean covid. I think the years of covid, uh, being in a pandemic, seeing how people are taking precautions, not taking precautions, seeing how people's actions are matching. Maybe our projections or our expectations of them. We get to a point and we're like, oh, wait a minute. We're not in alignment. You know, whether we're gonna have negative feelings about someone or not.
Sometimes it's just like, oh yeah, like for me, I'm immunocompromised. So for me, I'm like, oh, I, I actually just can't hang out with this person because I could get really sick and I don't wanna get really sick. So it's like, okay, that's your personal choice that you're making. It affects me. It's going to reflect, reflect our relationship, which we all know is it's classic lovers, right?
Um, so now we're in the chariot year, because when you add up two plus two plus three, you get seven. So now we're in major Archana seven, and the energy of the chariot, which as y'all know, I'm sure you know about the tarot. I don't know what your, you know, interest is with that, but it's a much different energy than lovers.
So, What I'm saying, what I just shared about like, you reach a point, you're like, I gotta go. That's very lovers, you know, uh, as is learning to be patient with yourself through challenging things. Because we know that the lovers is often about victory through challenge, right? Like overcoming our ego or overcoming our fears or our doubts to be successful and victorious as who we are meant to be.
If lover's shadow is about projections, right? Like you're not, you know, don't you know who I think I am? You know, that's like classic lover shadow, right? Chariot is like, who am I and how do I embody that? And how do I make different, perhaps more difficult choices so that I can remain in alignment with my self's capital s self integrity.
And so that's what we're gonna be coming up against. And when I make decisions, For myself's integrity, most likely people will either misunderstand me or I might offend someone, or someone might feel left behind or whatever that might be. And so that's what we're collectively, theoretically according to, uh, tarot theory.
That's what we're gonna be learning, going through modeling, embodying, being mirrors of two others, um, et cetera.
Well, let's strap in.
Buckle up
why I. What I was laughing about is, um, I don't always do like a word for the year, but this year a word was given to me, and like spirit just like dropped it in and was like 2023. Your word is giddy up at first I kind of thought it was a joke cuz that's kind of how my relationship with those things are.
But it was persistent enough as, oh no, you're all serious. Oh. Oh, okay. Giddy up is our theme. So the fact that it's also like, what is a more giddy up card than the chariot. I, I really love, I really love that. So
It's, yeah, I love it when that happens too. It feels very much on point. And it makes a lot of sense. And this really is a, a year to remember that life is res can respond to us. Like your, your podcast is called Hello Universe. The universe is looking at us with love. The universe is us. So for me, in context of the last like seven years, we've had like, honestly, The chariot can be about putting our hands back on the wheel of our life and being like, okay, no, but where am I gonna go?
Like, life has been happening to us for so long. There's been so much upheaval, there's been so much sorrow, so much grief, so much devastation. There's been like one curve ball after another, sometimes within a day, you know, within like the seven hours in our day for so long. And I also think I love the number seven as also being like a sabbatical, an arrest, however you wanna incorporate that arrest from.
Certain, uh, perspectives we take that hinder ourselves, arrest from urgency, you know, go, go go, whatever that, whatever we need to sorta remember that life is also responding to us. Life is not just happening to us. We're not just like blowing in the wind, you know, like one of those funny noodle balloons on the side of the road.
I mean, we ha we when we're like that, it's great cuz we can like vibe and flow and we look cool, but, and also we can like decide what we have control over, what our sphere of ins influence is. Uh, you know, partner with the divine to make some different moves.
Um, okay. That brings me to a question that I, this idea of, of incorporating rest. Um, . It brings me to a question that, uh, is a big reason why I was excited to have you come on the show, which is to talk about, um, building anti-capitalist business because I, it's something listeners know. is really important to me and also I think, and feel somehow in Congress, right?
Because you're trying to build something that is in some ways antithetical to the very system you're building it within. And rest is certainly a component of it, although there are many others. Um, and in some ways I kind of wanna just throw the f the floor to you to speak to what an anti-capitalist business even is and how the hell you try to figure out, um, creating one.
Yeah. I think as you've said, I think so many people like scoff at it just based on the language, right? They're like anti-capitalist business. What, um, and, and I, and I also wanna specify, like what we're talking about too isn't like green corporations or anything like that. It's a different way of thinking about business that I believe we all inherently have within us as like generous, abundant, loving service.
Like I'm, I don't know about both of you, but I have an inherent, like I get filled up with joy when I am of service and also when I'm tired and I feel extracted from, I am resent.
Mm.
I can be resentful and not want to give. Right. So taking the chariot, thinking about like alignment, , you know, I think that we can start with just ethics.
I think we can start with ethics and values. Uh, what, what are the values and the ethics that you wanna run a business from? I also think a lot about, or I've recently been thinking a lot about, uh, the, these, this, um, old article that has been circulating, I wanna say it was from the twenties. At any rate, it was definitely like from the sixties or before, where there scientists are making predictions that because of technology we'll be working like four hours a week.
Right? And everyone's like 20. Oh, cuz of the headline said 2023. We'll be working like four hours a week and. . I think for me, I, I, I, and the topic of rest, one of my goals for last year was to only work four days a week, or only was to work four days a week instead of five and sometimes six. Um, and I didn't get there.
And so, so which brings me to where I am now and which brings me to organization where I'm like, oh, like I can organize. I need to, I need to organize my time more effectively. There's no reason why I can't work four days a week. I can fig, I can, like if my business is like a, I, I think about our businesses as a garden.
If our businesses are like a garden, I can prune away some things. I can, you know, compost some things. I can think about how I spend my time within it, but I'm growing so on and so forth. So I think that's part of it is, is, um, I wanna talk magically, because I'm sure that's what your listeners are most, you know, they'll vibe the most with.
I don't wanna talk about like, 10 channels or, you know, I'm not, I don't wanna do any of that, but, um, energetically, so if we're speaking about magic and energy, I'm, I'm only going to speak for myself. In my experience, what I also realize is that I have ta, I have internalized ideas, and I've internalized energy within myself and my business of overworking.
Um, I've internalized, like reality is mal malleable, time is malleable. So I realized, oh, I, I've been telling myself I have to. 50 hours a week, or I've been telling my myself. And so then my energy is like, okay, she's gonna work 50 hours a week. My subconscious is like, all right, let's make this, you know, whatever, whatever it may be.
So I think on an energetic level, when you're creating a business or when you're recalibrating your business, there's quite a bit of both energetic work. Emotional work that has to go along with how you're managing your time and how you're managing your energy. And a lot of my previous ideas, or I would say energetic imprint is more, is, is is more on the nose.
Uh, is internalized capitalism, right? It's something isn't worthwhile if I'm, if I'm not overworking, you know, if like overgiving, you know what? I want everyone to get everything. You know, I have to, so this for me is a year personally of streamlining certain things so I can rest more, so I can fill my own cup more so I can be more balanced.
Um, I also really wanna share publicly because I think that there's a lot of glamorization of small businesses of like girl boss and like, whatever
you work your own hours and you have your like, and you're so free and, yep. Mm-hmm. . Yep.
And, and I, and it's really hard and I've had much harder jobs that were not, like, that was not my business. Like I've had much harder.
But I think that it can be a slog and I think it can feel very lonely and isolating. And I think there's a lot of like w tfs. Like, we're like, I don't know how to solve this problem. Like, I've never had this problem. What do I even Google? Like, who do you know? You're like Googling. You're the tech person, you're the garbage person, you're the, um, especially, I mean, if you're a small business, right?
So I've just been having a lot of those, those internal conversations about my internalized capitalism that I see coming out. For me, mostly it's in like workaholism, you know, like wanting to overwork and things like that. And a lot of that, if I'm gonna be like super honest and transparent, are like trauma responses, uh, from past work experiences that I've had, you know, uh, or even school experiences I've had that are like, and I, I'm o And so here comes our friend, here comes our best friend.
Patience. And patience is like, honey, you were treated in terrible ways by people who are not conscious. For 25 years. You know, I've been working since I am like 12, so I mean, I, that isn't whatever, again, math not my best friend for a minute. Right. It's been a
Yeah.
Yeah.
you're not gonna immediately, like your nervous system, your energetic field isn't just gonna snap into, you know, resting and vibing.
And, and for me resting, it was really useful for me to find out that for people who have a history of trauma, resting can be triggering cuz stuff comes up and so resting is triggering for me. Like take, like, it is like, if, if I know I'm gonna go somewhere for, if I'm gonna take Friday off or whatever there is, I'm sitting with discomfort,
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
And I just wanna be honest about that. And weirdly, it's only. , it comes up whenever I'm either , well, not weirdly. It makes total sense. That comes up whenever I've either made a lot more money in my business, like money. I'm like, I don't ha what that, or, uh, when I'm like te telling myself it's time to recalibrate, like it will come up then, right?
Because it's like, oh no, we're going, we're changing. We're we're going into different territory, or oh my gosh, like things are working out really well. So that's something that I've definitely thought about. But going back to the anti-capitalist business and ethics and integrity, that's, I think about that a lot, um, because it's some of the things I've witnessed in the world and you know, I think it would be really great if folks, what were I gonna
sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was getting excited to jump in, but Carry on.
No, go. Go. I know what I'm gonna say. You go.
I was just gonna say, I've been having this conversation with a bunch of my clients this week about rest and also overworking. Um, and also just our general commitment to things being hard. Right? One of my clients did something so beautiful.
We were talking about like really like diving deep to let things be easy. And she was like, yeah, that feels out of control. And I thought that was the most brilliant thing I've ever heard. Right? Because, um, it's true. It doesn't feel, um, for most of us, it doesn't feel easy. Doesn't feel safe either, cuz we've literally never known it.
Right? Talk about trauma response if you don't know, like ease in the way that, you know, the grass just fucking grows, you know? Um, than trying to create that experience for yourself or allow that experience for yourself is probably a better way to phrase it, is trying to allow something that on some level you haven't known maybe since you were like an infant, you know?
Um
now I'm just gonna jump in and also add that the, the thing that feels the best when we are having a trauma response is this idea of like, oh, I can control things. I'm in control, control control can control control. And how do we control? It's like by doing and by forcing and by, you know, grasping and all of these things.
And so control is a trauma response, something I'm very, very familiar with, like it feels in. in that distorted way, it feels good, even though in reality it's the thing that's causing us so much suffering. Sorry.
think our labor, oh, our labor in and of itself can just be a great mechanism through which we experience control.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
And I would add on one step further, and it's nuanced and complex, but capitalism is a trauma response
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can't have a conversation about capitalism without trauma. . That's how
who's in control of our time, our labor, our bodies, our healthcare, our our, our survival, our literal survival. Right? Like, not enough people talk about that. Like that's really intense, right? When you peel it back. So I think that, um, I think that for me, it does have a lot to do with ethics, with integrity, with what I, why I'm doing what I'm doing with being, um, with really understanding what I'm kind of here to do and what I offer and not stealing from other people.
Like I've, I've just seen so much theft, like, like I've been stolen from so much. I've seen so much theft. I've seen so much like content ripping, I've seen so much, um, like co uh, like colonialist, like grabbing of, of other people's work. Um, you know, I've seen so much scarcity, uh, urgency grabbing, like all of that, uh, in the world and. I think that one of the first steps to building a business of integrity is figuring out who you are, what you came here to do, who is in your, who is influencing you, who's your lineage, if any, like where do you fall within that? For myself, as like a white person, my business has to include giving money to the indigenous stewards of the land that I'm on.
Like it has to include giving away a portion of everything I make to grassroots orgs that support black and brown people. I'm gay, so like it has to include me. Also giving money to, you know, folks that are organizations and sometimes mutual aid for folks who are trans, for folks who have a lot less.
Privilege than I do. Like it has to include that. And also I'm super particular about, I make products and so I'm super particular about, you know, how they're made, where they're made, I know where they're made. Like it just ta it. So this is the other thing, it takes a lot longer. I'm not just like buying things from some random Amazon site.
Like I'm getting to know the grower. I'm getting to know the person in California who's making the sense like, you know,
a lot more
printers and going around and meeting the person printing my many moons, like, you know, and that's more expensive and it costs more money and it's harder to produce.
it takes more time, which is very, you know, anti-capitalism. Capitalism is like, it needs to happen now. Let's get it done, and how much can we sell, go, go, go, go, go. It's like this intensity of like, without the consideration of all of these things. So I think it requires,
and.
gonna say more effort, but I think it also, it just requires more love, I think from what I'm hearing you
you're, I think you're right cuz it's also like if we compare, this is the other thing with integrity. Integrity isn't about comparing, it's about being in your center and knowing who you are and and what you're here for. And I also think that building an anti-capitalist business requires.
intuitive integrity, not just talking about the thing that every other person's talking about. Not just looking at someone else's business and being like, oh, that looks like a good idea. I should just do that. Like really taking time to sit with yourself, your gifts, what you know, what you have to share, how your creative forces wanna flow through you.
Not just, you know, using the same template that everyone else is using or that, you know, really taking the time to know yourself and in this way, and know your offerings. And in this way, you create integrity within your business. Like, I mean, literally energetic integrity, you know, it's like, oh, this is, this feels right, this feels aligned.
I'm in my own garden. You know what I mean? I'm not going to the apple trees in someone else's garden and putting them in my garden and saying that they're mine. . You know, maybe I'll collaborate, maybe I'll ask the app. The person with the apple tree, I like their apple tree. They like me, like I'm not, you know, again, nuance it's needed and, and every situation is different.
But I think that's like a big thing is like becoming a clear channel, understanding what's yours, understanding when it's time to let go of certain things, understanding where it's time, um, to pivot, to grow, transform, and doing what? The other thing I wanna say, uh, is like also just understanding that you can't do everything.
Like, I can't do what a corporation, I can't do what a small business that makes millions of dollars a year can do in terms of healthcare or. You know, paid time off or parental leave. Like I don't, I literally don't have that yet. You know, one day maybe I hope to have that. I've, um, one part-time employee and one four day a week employee.
Um, I hope to have that. But while I'm here, I pay my employees really well. I pay the freelancers I work with, what they ask for, you know, like we want things to be easy for people we work with, we understand people's humanity. Like, you know, like there, there's that stuff too. And I also witnessed the reverse, like I witness in so-called spiritual business.
I witness very different treatment and I witnessed very different like pay. And I'm like, wait, what you wanna pay me $10 to, you know, whatever, spend like seven hours on your thing or whatever.
Or do it for exposure. That's my favorite is like, come and you know. Yeah.
right? And so like, we can't, and so we ca, and this sounds wild, I know, but we can't talk about anti-capitalist business without talking about like class and pay and money and raising what people are paying and also raising our rates. You know, I'm sure a lot of people listening are like service providers and it's like we, you can't afford to give a $25 tarot reading.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Like, you literally can't it, like, it's like there's three to four hours of work that could go into it, or you're lifetime of work, or you know, if you're emailing the person and you're taking the classes and you're practicing and you know, like you're getting hired for your expertise. And that's also where it comes back to integrity is like, okay, I know what I can offer.
I know what I'm really good at, you know? Um, so there's all of these different things to take into consideration, but I always say that it's not anti-capitalist. really what we're talking about, we're talking about like human abundant mindset of collaboration, growth, new paradigms, playing with what's possible.
Like if we're witches. If we're magicians, if we're energy workers, if we're creators, visionaries, artists, we like, we can create different paradigms,
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I wanted to say something too about the, I mean, there's a million things I wanna speak to what what you're saying, but this idea of if you're a title card reader, you can't afford to give a $25 reading, I think is really important because there's, I think, often, What this is rampant and spiritual businesses and obviously outside of them, um, just like charging as much as you possibly can, right?
Like, oh, you know, I'm gonna charge $10,000 for this, you know, 30 minute thing just to be in my energy, right? So there's totally the capitalist model of just extraction charge as much as you possibly can. And then I think a lot of people react against that and therefore wildly undercharge, right? Because they're so afraid of being perceived as that they're so afraid of becoming that, that they're out there just like charging $25 for super, super intense magic.
And
I'm sorry, and I, I'm sorry, I, I just can't have to interrupt. I just, in both situations there's just trauma involved. I see the trauma involved of like the extraction, but also when you're doing the thing where like, I don't wanna be that and you're rejecting it. It's also like, goes back to this inherent story of original sin and how we're bad and we don't wanna be, A lot of people don't wanna overcharge or, or, or are afraid of overcharging because they're like, well, I don't wanna be part of like the capitalist wheel because I am bad.
It makes me a, a, a shitty person. And so then we like undervalue ourselves. It's just like this interesting cycle.
And Oh, go ahead there. I love how much we're all amped on this
well, we're super, yeah, we can talk about this for like seven years. I also think so yes to everything you said, of course. And like, I think there's a lot of people wanna be accessible, right? Uh, and so that's, so like, but there's so many other ways to be accessible, right? You could write on your blog, you could start a 20 minute podcast like every week or every other week.
You could share on social media. Like there's so many other ways to be of service that you can do for free that, um, you know, many people do. Uh, so there's that. The other thing I wanna say is like the, I'm putting this in the artist,
Mm-hmm.
this, and again, I'm putting these in bunny ears, so just bear with me. Uh, the artist, the healer, the spiritualist, the mystic glitch, the total matrix, becau, and so as, and they're also often thought of as feminine.
Work, right. Feminine labor. It's work that we're not supposed to be paying for. Right. It's supposed to be free. If you're a healer or a spiritualist or a coach or a helper, teacher, servant or whatever you're supposed to be, you know, penniless. Like there's all of these projections or you have some superpower like, you know, that people Yes.
Are paying $10,000 for a one day retreat with you. And you know, like, like you said, it's, it's, we have so much confused dissonance and mixed messaging and I often think of these certain archetypes as the archetypes that can like set us all free because if we value. , we'll pay for it. It will create a better world if we value healing, if we value a spiritual, uh, a spiritual practice and spiritual life and, and people who have spiritual expertise, people will just have life expertise.
I would also throw the elder into that mix, right? Because once someone gets old, they're disposable. We wanna avoid them. You know, we, we, there's a lot of disrespect in American culture in particular, right? Not in other cultures. So there's all of these different roles. We're in energies archetypes that throw a glitch in the system.
And theoretically, in other times, they were taken care of. They were by the community, right? They were given bread, they were given food, there was bartering. But we're not in that system and we're providing services. and we are workers like we literally are workers. Just as you know, a nurse is or a, you know, the Starbucks cashier is like, all of us deserve whatever we're doing for labor, for money.
All of us deserve a living wage. At the bare minimum. At the bare minimum, not $15. We deserve like 18 $20 minimum. Probably, let's just say 25 minimum, right?
Well if you also have to pay for health insurance because? Because American health insurance is shit then yeah.
you know, so like, oh yeah, what you say,
well, I just think that the, one of the fundamental, like. Violences of capitalism is that it is a constant, your needs are never safe, right? That you can't reliably expect that your needs will be met because you could get fired tomorrow or your landlord could kick you out or like, you know, whatever, whatever.
You could get sick and you don't have health insurance or your needs are not reliably met. It is a system built on you continually continuing to feel unsafe. And so one of the ways in which we can build anti-capitalist businesses as many, but I think one of them is to really heal your own relationship to your needs being met.
And part of that has to do with the prices that you charge, right? So that they aren't reactionary, so that they're not trying to establish dominance. And they're also not trying to like placate the, you know, I'm good at, I'm, I'm good in my, um, you know, giving, in
contract I've taken for many lives.
Yes.
Exactly. Exactly. And so I think, I think that's also why pricing is so complicated.
I do a, I do a lot of money stuff I do with a lot of, um, as a reoccurring place I show up for. But I just think that, um, it's, it's really, it's really important to feel like you're building a business that meets your fucking needs. And money isn't the only part of that. The time and, and space for rest and clients that don't feel extracting.
All of that is part of it. But, um, I think looking at your pricing from a place of, um, am I building something that meets my needs, um, and also serves my community, uh, can actually be really radical.
Yeah. And then moving up from there is, can I build a business that is abundant?
Hmm.
Mm.
you know, that not just meets my needs and my basic requirements and will give me a couple weeks off a year, but is abundant and I can like invest in my future or donate to mutual aid funds or do, or take on free work. You know, like take on free labor, you know, if I wanna volunteer or give a talk for free or teach, you know, teens at a school or, you know, whatever it is.
And, uh, I think that, as you've said, these kinds of conversations, people like the three things I've ever talked about publicly, that people just totally explode on, you know, that are just so polarizing. Our race,
Mm-hmm.
weirdly, eclipses didn't see that one coming, but that really guy, I mean, people really were angry at me about that one. and money. Money is like people unsubscribe.
They, you know, when when I say things like, what, you know, we need to talk about money, money is not an energy. Like this is, like, this is a political structure that stemmed from colonization, that stemmed from violence and theft. And we're replicating them in every industry. like, you know, whether it's the hospitality industry or the tarot card reading industry, or whatever you wanna call our coaching or whatever people are doing, um, you know, we're like devaluing ourselves.
We're devaluing other people and we do have to have more conversations. The first step I think, is being able to have capacity to sit with our nervous systems. As these things are coming up. Because that's the other thing, like I taught a class on abundance. I'm going to teach it this year, I'm pretty sure.
Cause it feels like it needs to come out again. Um, people, people just, their nervous systems are get, so they go into like either hyper or hyper, they zone out. A lot of them told me like they couldn't finish the class series because, and uh, and it was like week three, I finally. Talked about money. I like, I wanted to like titrate, you know, like I wa I was
Mm-hmm.
we're gonna talk about abundance and then we're gonna talk about the systems in place that creates scarcity.
Now we're gonna talk about money. And a lot of people are like, I pieced out. Like I had to go, like, I couldn't, you know, and, and I'm not saying that as a judgment. I'm saying it like, this is a very normal experience that people have. They bring their attachment styles into their relationship with money.
They bring their worth stuff, they bring their intergenerational trauma. There's epigenetics there, there's diasporic stuff. There's like all kinds of different things happening in our sweet little sensitive, tender nervous systems, you know?
Just build a funnel and write a budget, you're fine. I don't understand why this is complicated, like this is why that like advice is such bullshit, right? Because it's so complicated and then we're expected to just like fucking figure it out and bootstrap our way through it and, and then feel terribly ashamed when it turns out.
It's really complicated.
or like, this is like the bigot. To me, this is like one of the biggest scams, and I know that this is very also controversial or when we realize like having money or having more money isn't like totally gonna solve our existential problems. And I look at that, like, I look at billionaires, I'm like, oh, they're not feel like Bezos and Musk.
They're not feeling good as they are. Like they're, they don't feel abundant. They don't feel like they have enough, you know what I mean? Like what's going on in their, like, their nervous systems do not, like, I do not wanna co-regulate with them, you know what I mean?
you're right.
Yeah.
So I think you, like, there's also that piece of it too, where it's like, well, it's okay.
It's, I like, I love it. If you wanna make a ton of money, I love it. If you're like, oh, I just wanna be okay, like, wherever you are, that's great. Like, that's wonderful. There's, it's, everything is beautiful. And also realizing that like, if there isn't some kind of meaning in your, in your life, if there isn't some way for you to express yourself on some level, if there isn't some way for you to feel connected or alive, really, really, like it is such, so, such a cliche, but a lot of money won't fix that.
that those intimacy issues or those, you know, void issues like those, that the spirit void, heart hole in the heart kind of issues. It can help, like you can buy therapy. Like, you know, it solves a lot of your problems that, you know, capitalism and the West and America have created For sure. And also there has to be, I think again, a different like lens on why we're doing it, what we're doing it for, how,
really is how I
how it intersect.
Yes. How it intersects with some kind of meaning, purpose, service, you know? Yes. There I, I, I believe that, that's just me though, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do you guys.
You
mean, I mean, I mean, yeah, so that's like the whole basis of I think the work that we do, our podcast and, and all of that. I, um, I don't know. Okay. So actually I wanna go back and say something quickly about my huge. I wouldn't say call it a takeaway, but I think a summary of what you're saying that I think is such a helpful reminder for me is like, it really, it sounds simple, but I also, again, the reminder is always necessary for me.
It's like it starts from within. Like if we wanna have an anti capitalist capitalistic business, it's about deconditioning the, you know, that those tendencies that we have within ourselves. And because I have to admit, I have had those moments of thinking about, okay, like I just wanna create a new system, so let me look at what's going on in the system, and I'll be like, oh, and this person's doing this offering and that looks really cool like that.
I will be really quick just to be like, , let me do that because I feel like I can reorganize the system from an external place. Like this is the thing that I can do, but the question always is, is like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where am I suffering and where do I not feel safe? Because that's gonna be projected into my business and how I do things.
And that's just like such, I, I, I just thank you for that because it's such delicious medicine and I can like, feel that in my body of like, I, I also feels that always is a helpful, an empowering reminder to me because I very much trust in my ability that I can't, that's something I can do, which is to be with myself rather than trying to change everything from the external.
So, um, Kylie, what do you think? So we have, wait, just for listeners, we have two minutes left. Sarah, Sarah's got a battery computer thing. So like, this is our probably the end history of your, our shortest, our shortest episode to date. But Kylie, um, what do you, what do you think? Do you have any last minute thoughts before.
Um, well, I just love. I just love this conversation so much. It's funny you were saying how like money is so polarizing and it's the thing that, I don't know if you've had this experience era, but about any aspect of your business, but it's the thing that I have tried to avoid, and it's the thing that I keep coming back to be like, oh, I guess this is the thing that I have to keep talking about, because it's been such a like, um, uh, it is constantly teaching me.
Um, and also, uh, anyway, it's just, it just keeps, it's, it's clear to me. That I think there aren't enough of these kind of conversations, right? There's a lot of conversations about like, I'll teach you how to be rich, right? The right get the right budget. Um, and I think a lot of really incredible conversations about healing in all sorts of non machi, non-money related ways, right?
But most of the conversations I think that happen around like the intersection of healing and money are just oriented on like this kind of band-aid manifestation. Get your vibe right so that you can fix the problem so you could have enough money so that you won't ever have to think about the things that are underneath anymore, which, uh, is hurtful in a lot of ways.
But one of them is when those kind of high vibe, quick fix things don't work, it just is another layer of shame on top of these already really tender wounds. Um, and so I just feel really grateful for the, um, this conversation because I think the more we can speak to. The emotional complexity of money, the more permission we all have to look at it and not feel so fucking terrible about it being complicated, and that then becomes the portal to creating a different kind of relationship to having our needs met and taking care of each other.
yeah.
and it to, to, uh, your point Eva, like that comes from within. Money is a relationship that we have. Money is a symbol. It's a very loaded symbol, right? Freedom, safety worth. Abundant fun punishment, celebration, like, you know, there, it's so paradoxical. It's, and it's only symbolic in general in a lot of our subconscious with really intense, loaded things.
Either very, very, very positive or quite, quite, quite, quite, you know, scary. So I also like tell people into my class, I'm just like, we need to change how we relate to money. We need to be really clear about what we're projecting onto money, uh, both within the system and what we've been taught, but also like what do you want your relationship with money to be?
Mm-hmm.
I mean? Like, and, and, and you can start from there. And you can also look at where your relationship with other people, deities practices, feel really solid and feel really good. And you can utilize that energy to help you with, you know, the aspects of money. or anything. Right. Any other thing that feel hard because you are already abundant.
Like I also tell my students, if you're alive right now, you're creative, you're abundant, you're genius. You know, you've, you're existing in a complicated world and you're beautiful, you know, like you're doing great. You know?
Hmm.
and so I think like, thinking of money as a symbol and also trying to reconfigure how we relate to money, I, I think is also just really useful.
Not super, super amazing, not super, super horrible, but like as its own thing. Because I will say, and I know this is a cliche, and a lot of people say this, but it is true, like money is a tool. Humans have used it for greed and for control and for domination and all kinds of not great things, but at its heart, it's, it's an exchange, it's a tool, it's a symbol, you know?
Uh, and, and that can be of whatever you want it to be. And if you are a playful person, if you are an imaginative person, you can play with that. And you can imagine different things that, like, I, that's what I had to do to change my relationship to money. Like I have a much different relationship to money, and as I've said, as I make more or less if it changes, this is like the fascinating thing to me.
If it changes markedly in any way, my, all my stuff comes up again. And so I'm like,
Mm
go again. Let's rewire. , like, you know, like, and that's the thing that I think all those manifestation people don't talk about, which is a lot of times, especially if you are jumping classes, and especially if like a lot of your family members or friends are in a different class than you or ha, there's different discrepancies.
No one, like almost, I've never heard anyone talk about that. That has happened to me. It's happened to my partner. You know, it's happened to both of us we're like, we don't know what to do with money. Like, we're like, no one had money, no one talked to us about money. Like what? Like we have it now. What? Like,
Yeah.
and our friends don't, or so, you know, like there's all that stuff.
But anyway, every time. And so I just wanna tell people it's like normal and natural. And again, we just have a sweet little tender nervous system. But I do think having really open and as transparent as we can, conversations about money and then you gentle listener, having transparent and honest conversations with yourself first about it right.
Is a, I think, really useful to start.
Yeah.
Ugh. Oh my god. Sarah, I, we could talk to you forever and ever and ever then mean this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are a million other topics that I know that you listed that I was like, we could dive
No, but this is great. I love it.
um, for the sake of time, why don't we end, Kylie, maybe you and I can do a joy afterwards Cause I just, just to keep in step with tradition.
Cause I don't know if we'll have time to do a round, but like Sierra, where can people find you? How can they work with you and get some of this magic?
I have a free podcast, it's called Moon Beaming. I do have some episodes on this topic you can search for. In that feed, I have a free newsletter that you can sign up for by going to the moon studio.co. Moon studio co. The Moon studio is where you can Google and find me and I in 2023. I'm teaching I'm, I don't think I'm seeing any new clients.
All the clients I'm gonna see are previous clients, but they can buy my, you can buy my magical. Products, spiritual tools. You can sign up for my classes and courses. I have everything from, you know, a two hour long workshop that's really accessible to longer courses that cost more money shockingly. Um, and yeah, that's where you can find me.
I have a lot of free content that folks can check out, so yeah. Thank you.
Amazing.
I just
rescuing your laptop.
yes, good luck about asking your last laptop. And I just wanna say, I also just love always being. Having people model for me what's possible within like, uh, just like, it's, it's just so refreshing to me to see people doing the damn thing. You know? Like you have your own business and you're talk, walking the walk and talking the talk, and that's always really helpful for me to see.
So, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You're trying. Yeah, you're trying. Um, all right. Thank you so much, Sarah. This was amazing.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Our amazing guest had to go because, um, she was out of a laptop charger and out of battery life. So we still wanna honor, joy and tradition, so, , what's something bringing you joy right now?
Um, okay. I wanted to actually bef, okay, so I wanna share my joy and also ask you a question within this, which is that, like
Yes.
I, um, I haven't been able to listen to any spiritual stuff. Do you ever go through, do you ever have that experience where you're just like, Ugh, I can't, like, not like no self-help, like nothing.
I'm like, Ugh,
Maybe I shouldn't admit this because I have a podcast about spirituality, but I don't anymore. I don't listen to other podcasts. Part of that's because I don't, when, when I listen to podcasts with my like life schedule, but also I don't read spirituality books. I don't like other business coaches. 90, like, like for the, I, I think what's happened to me is I feel at this point incredibly discerning about, um, like wisdom I let into my space, aside from the shit that I like, doom scroll on Instagram.
Let's be clear, like I'm eating junk food all the time, but when it comes to like books, podcasts, either about spirituality or business or the intersection, I'm like just really fucking picky.
yeah. Yeah. So I think I definitely am on the same boat, very discerning, and I think sometimes, I guess I'm trying to figure out, I feel like that's what's happening to me, plus more. There also seems to be just like a, it also seems like something else right now, which is like, meaning like it's also like I don't wanna take any class because like, I don't wanna take any classes.
I don't wanna work with any coach. I just don't want any fucking input, like, , even like I'm talking, any of it, like it's, it's to the extreme. So it's not just a being discerning, my body's also rejecting it being like, no, don't fucking
love.
Don't like work on yourself right now.
Oh my God. I literally have this image right now of your body being like, we are the wisdom, we are the medicine. Like nothing else exists.
Yeah, I think it's that And also, and I'm just figuring this out as I'm like talking to you cuz it's helpful for me to like process. I think it's also like, you know, I'm going through transition, I'm going through this breakup and my old programming is like, oh, let me use this time to like level up and like work on myself.
And I don't actually think that's bad. Like I think moments of transition can be beautiful times of like, let me focus on me and like,
And also again, okay, sorry. Apparently I'm just channeling your own body, which seems like a weird thing to say, but I can just feel like, like you're like this, like murth of like, you think you have to effort at leveling up.
Yes.
you think you have to earn this, like the all level is like, like,
Yeah. It's just pure now.
the, the, um, like trains out of the station.
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for that. Like, it's already happening. It's in I'm, I'm in it. I'm in it because I'm
you, you are the medicine, you are the transformation, like nothing, no input required, no effort, like honestly, effort would just muck things up.
Yeah, yeah. So I really feel like the message is like, just be dude and, and just like wanna feel whatever you're feeling and like yeah. Don't stress about feeling like you need to, whatever, work on yourself or take in positive input or whatever. So anyway, it's a very long-winded way to get to my joy this week, which is that, um, And also I love audio books and I haven't been listened to any, I haven't been able to listen to any, like audio books.
So I've been listening to my friend's podcast actually. So my friend Alex Heigel, uh, has and his friend have a great podcast called Too Much Information and it's all pop culture . And Alex is so, shout out to Alex. He's, you know, been a journalist for many years and I just found out that he had this, this podcast.
I don't know how, I didn't know about it, but it's just like him and this other dude, they talk about how they have too much time and they just like go deep dive into like everything that you didn't need to know about certain pop culture aspects. And as a pop culture person, myself and a, you know, someone who used to want to be like a music journalist, it's just so much fun to listen to.
Like, I'm the kind of person who, when I watch a movie, immediately afterwards I go onto imdb and I look up the trivia because I just like to know the ins and outs and the behind the scenes of like the, the, the trivia. I don't know, I just find it so fucking fascinating. So this show, if you are like
so many ways. I'm sorry I'm interrupting you. There are so many ways that you and I are like very, very similar. We could not be more different, like could not be farther away on the spectrum. I love that.
Yeah, I know. I
so this podcast sounds great.
It is great. Yeah. I love our similarities and our differences for sure. Um, but, uh, yeah. So like what? So like they, um, I don't know. I'm just getting so much joy from listening to it. It's like they'll take one subject like Steely Dance Aja, which is an album that I love or like, um,
that. You love Steely Dan did not see that coming. Did
love steel.
I mean, they. Such a good fucking band. Like, anyway, music Nerd Alert. But, um, and they'll also do like the parent trap or like Cool Hand Luke or like Fleetwood Mac and they'll just like deep dive into an album for like an hour and a half and like find out, or like, no doubts. Tragic Kingdom. And I'm just like, wow.
I love it. I just love all the, I don't know what is so fulfilling about it to me, but
that sounds very interesting to me. So the, the one podcast that I listen to is this podcast called History Chicks, which if you're a history nerd is great. It's all day. They, it's these two women and they, um, like just do a shitload of research about, they pick a figure, a famous woman from history, and they do a shitload of research on her, and then they do like a one or two part episode.
Oh my god. I'm totally gonna, this sounds amazing.
oh, it's so great. And they've been doing it for like a decade. So there's like, the archive is so, so, so great. And they're, they, they're really cute too, because they don't compare notes until they like, record the show. So they each like ha do their own research and then come together. So you get like, anyway, they're really cute.
Um,
I'm gonna listen to that because I think I have guilt about not being more into history, and I feel like this could be a cool way to learn more about history in a way that feels interesting to me.
and interesting and engaging. Yeah, I fully recommend and um, it feels you, the your friend show feels like of a similar vibe in the sense that I love being taken deep on something.
Yeah.
So part of I think why pop culture overwhelms me is it just feels like a lot of surface level stuff. And so, like, I love this show cause it's like 90 minutes of like learning about Ida B Wells and so the, like nine, yeah, an hour about one Fleetwood Mac album actually sounds really fun as opposed to the detail, the surface level stuff that just like, I don't know what to do with this noisy
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So Alex, I know you're not listening cuz you're not into the woo but we're very different. He's like so sarcastic and cynical and I love it. Um, but too much information. Highly recommend. That's my joy for this week. Yeah. What about you friend?
Okay. I think this might be kind of a longer answer, which feels fitting cuz our intro Sarah was short. But, um, I had this really big aha yesterday, like, do you ever witness something and it like breaks your whole brain
Yeah. Or like sometimes it breaks my whole heart.
yeah. Um, Yeah. Yeah, that for sure. Um, and we could actually probably do a whole podcast episode on this topic, but the thing that I saw yesterday with like, total crystal clear clarity and not a, just an intellectual, but like, I felt it all the way through my body was, um, things are hard because I'm making them hard.
Uhhuh . Yeah. This is in step with, I think, a little bit of what you were referring to earlier in the podcast.
Yes. And I realized that that just sounds like such a silly, like, like I felt like a drug person, like when I was like, things are hard cause I'm making them hard. Right.
But,
um,
though, like, and what, what do you mean really?
what I mean is just like our commitment to like, yeah. Like I said earlier in the show, like the, the realization. things. Being hard makes me feel safe because I, things have always been hard because I'm a human who grew up as a human, right?
And so the idea that it could just be easy, that doesn't feel safe. And so I pull in complicated experiences like, you know, crazy schedule with my kids or creating a, uh, corporate client that I'm instantly like, oh, this is a lot more work than I expected. Right? Like, like creating, um, like creating like obstacle after obstacle after obstacles are clear because the clearing of obstacles is much more comfortable than it just being like, oh, or you could just have what you want.
And it could be easy like that, that actually feels like wildly unsafe, that it could just be easy, right? Anyway. So that breakthrough feels really great and like I can feel like I'm in the, like literally feels like I'm in the middle of something. Like, I'm like a crab who's like half out of her shell, you know?
And so the joy that I actually want to speak to is just that I've built a life in which I have these, in what feel like kind of earth shattering breakthroughs on a like Tuesday night in the shower And that I have like the kind of nourishment in my life and friendships like yours and my other friends and my husband that like I can molt and evolve in my every day.
Hmm.
so my joy is like, this feels on one level, like totally matter of course, but also it feels deeper and bigger and I feel so, it feels so exciting to me that I have a life that this is just woven into the fabric of it that like. , I'm an evolving creature, and so I see these things and I allow them to change and move through me, and who will I be on the other side?
I don't know. Then there'll be another thing that I get to, like unearth and examine and look at, and all that whole, the whole process of that is so delicious and I, I just feel really grateful that this is the way I, I'm walking through the world, so that's my joy.
I, I, I think I'm hap really happy that you're speaking to that cause I think it's really beautiful and it speaks to the fact that you feel safe within your community. You've like created community and safety where we can like, have this sort of vulnerable, sometimes like messy, sometimes like constantly changing
Yeah.
experience.
Um, which I think if we are, um, I think choosing our people wisely, then hopefully we have that. But I also know not everyone
Mm-hmm.
access to that yet. And that can change. So, I don't know. I'm feeling a, I like, I, I'm feeling a deep appreciation that I think I'm just sensing from you cuz I think it's be.
And I also think it's interesting because I think for a while I have had this beautiful community where it's safe to like molt. And also I had a belief that I had to go, like tuck myself away in private to deal with my mess and then I could come back and maybe share afterwards, right? But that I had to be messy and do my, like licking my licking of my wounds in private and then come back.
And that's actually one of the things I feel like I shared in this past year is like, no, I can be, I can be in the molting process in my life. I don't have to like quarantine myself cuz I'm evolving, which then also gives me permission to be in this constant state of evolving rather than like breakthrough crisis.
isolate, come back, break through crisis. Right. Which like was its own cool thing to do for a while and also
Which I, I'm still guilty of. I can, I know that I do that. I, I know that I, and I don't know if I. , I'll have to think about this more. I don't know if I consider it necessarily a bad thing cause I think it's just how I operate, but I am very much that, like I will, I've just been like this, my, I just, I don't know.
I think it's just how I know how to do things. I will very much like I need to just process it on my own first sometimes. Um, but I think that can also become, I can do that to a fault. And so to hear what you're saying about like, there, there is no divide is kind of what I'm hearing you say. Like, sounds also really beautifully rich.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, cuz I do, I think processing it alone is really special. And also I think the thing I witnessed in myself a while ago was like the, the inverse of that was like no one wants to deal with.
Mm
which isn't true, and no one was say, no one was telling me that. Right. I was just telling it to myself subconsciously.
And so like, the being, being in solitude to witness something is so beautiful, but it was also had a baggage attached to it that was, you
It's like, are you, yeah, that's really helpful. Just everything that you're sharing, it's really helpful for me because I think I'm still in, I'm still figuring that this piece out, like the inverse for me, isn't that like, no one wants to deal with this, but it's like, I don't wanna be this, I don't wanna show this to anyone.
And it's still too, like, I, it's a vulner it's a per self-protection vulnerability thing. Yeah. Which is what I mean when I say that. Like for you, I'm, I'm, I'm witnessing you experience less separation.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's what it feels like. That's what it feels
Which is awesome. Cool.
yeah.
What a beautiful joy.
Hmm. Yeah.
Ah.
Um, all right, my friend.
Yeah. Listeners, we love you. Um, we hope you are having a nice start. Well, actually we don't, I'm gonna say nice start to your, but I don't know when we're releasing this. I will just say, if you like the show, share it, like it, subscribe, write, review, all the things. They really help. And also, when Kylie and I are in a bad mood, reading the reviews is like a lovely thing that we do to like pick ourselves up.
So
It's true. My favorite is, I mean, well not my actual fear, but I do still love the one, the person who left us a one star review for all of our, mostly mine. Let's be real
swearing. No, I mean, I, is it mostly you? I think I have
know. I feel like, I feel like you swear, like I, I think sometimes I like really turn the volume up on the swearing. Yeah.
Um, Yeah. Liso, what else? Oh yeah, we wanna be on your podcast if you have a show that you think we'd be a good fit for. Um, or if you know someone else's show, Kylie and I make great guests, so let us know. And also we're always, um, really appreciative of when you guys send people our way. So if you have anyone who you think would make a good guest, um, email us
Oh, I'm also gonna add, if this podcast really resonated with you, like I talk about money on the show all the time, but in particular, this resonated with you. I have a free, um, I have a free mini course called Money is Your Love Story that, uh, is about all the, some of the topics we were talking about. So if this is something that you want more on, um, uh, Instagram's probably the best place.
Um, it's on my little link tree or just literally shoot me a dm. But, um, it's really great. I really love it, and it's free and it's three days and it's super profound. So go scoop that up if you want more, um, alternative ways of looking at.
I know it sounds like a fucking deal, cuz I know that you just have so much wisdom to offer on money. Cool.
Just keeps being my teacher. So just keep pouring it out. Yeah.
All right. We love y'all.