Welcome to the part two - This episode with both feet in, we remove doubt and accept we might be crazy.
Welcome to the part two - This episode with both feet in, we remove doubt and accept we might be crazy.
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Eva: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. It's Eva here and it's Kyley. Welcome back to hell universe. The, am I going crazy series?
Kyley: Um, this might just become a podcast where we talk about are going crazy because even I keep He keeps coming up with new things we want to talk about on this theme, and, uh, I was saying when we were chatting before hitting record, like, I feel like I'm bursting with excitement and hunger for today's topic.
So I'm [00:01:00] pretty jazzed about that. And I love hearing from all of you about how universal like everyone's like, Oh yeah, I'm also terrified of these, these issues.
Eva: Yes. Like in one form or another, it looks different. It does a different flavor for a lot of us. But I've also gotten messages being like, Oh my God, this is, I've had this.
I need this. I list. Yeah, I've had this thought or like, I totally get this. And so, um, if you haven't already, I would recommend that you go back to part one, basically this, this is going to be a three, maybe four part series. Um, But part one was last week and now we're going to dive into part two, which Kyley, maybe you want to introduce the topic a little bit because last week we, we left off where I talked about all the ways in which I think I'm afraid of going crazy and why, and the personal stories behind it.
And today I want to hear more about your experience with this.
Kyley: Yes, yes. Uh, there's. a million ways, which this also shows up for me. Um, also, you don't have to listen to it in synchronous order. So if you're already here and right now, [00:02:00] we don't or chaos. So asynchronous
Eva: is great. Um, Um, actually, that's really funny because I think that's just like the difference between our personalities.
I'm like Capricorn, like, no, go back and listen in order. And you're like,
Kyley: You're the one. I'm, I'm just thinking of my neurodivergents who are immediately like, oh shit, but I'm already here. And if I go back and then they, I know they just turn us off and they just, that's what I would do. I would just be like, I don't know which was the right way.
And then I would just leave. I
Eva: know. I just love that we're looking out for our audience and that we have, that we represent both sides of the map, you know, the OCDness and also just the like, yeah, neurodivergency.
Kyley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay. Um, my fear has to do with, Faith and is it crazy to have believed things and mystical experiences and believing mystical shit?
And, um, so my hope is that we get to get [00:03:00] weird . ,
Eva: but I, I, I mean Buck, that's what we're here for, right? I mean, also you can't have an episode about going crazy without getting a little weird, right, right.
Kyley: Um.
Eva: But
Kyley: before we do that, do you have anything to, I mean,
Eva: anywhere
Kyley: to invite people, anything to promote?
Eva: Yeah. Um, come work with me one on one. That is my jam. It's where I'm currently inviting people in. I am, um, let's just, let's see. I just feel. So high on life these days.
And I think that a lot of that is because I'm just learning so much and I'm excavating so deeply and I'm living so much more richly and in the present moment. And it feels so alive. And I know that this isn't a gift that's just reserved for a select few. Like, this is what we came here to do. We came here to like live fully, to fully love ourselves, to feel peace, like true.
[00:04:00] Enduring peace and connection with others and intimacy. And this is something that I think is possible when we really, um, dive into our spiritual experience and our spiritual selves, whatever that might look like for you. So if you are interested in deepening your spiritual experience and want to work with someone one on one, I think I'm your girl.
Um, yeah, my, I, I hung out with one of my. old clients this past weekend. And he was like, yeah, basically you were like my spiritual therapist, which I really, really loved because it really is that like people are oftentimes like what, you know, what do we, what do we work on? And it's like, my motto is, as you know, Kyley is like, what's in the way is the way it's everything.
Cause nothing is, there isn't anything that isn't a portal into, into like, Basically, more of a spiritual experience, more liberation, um, and so whatever is causing you suffering, that is your teacher and that is your way. And I am here to support you through that.
Kyley: [00:05:00] Um, I also want to offer that if you're like gobbling up the series and you feel you really resonate with, um, this particular tension around, you know, How our mind creates for us experiences of fear around authenticity, trusting ourselves, right?
Basically, so much of this series is about different iterations where we know something, or we experience something, or we feel that something's possible. And, uh, and then we're afraid of it. And, and so I think if this theme really resonates with you, this is one of the things you're an incredible coach at, right, is actually how to be friends with your mind,
Eva: essentially,
Kyley: if you're a spiritual seeker, you know, I think there's a lot of, I think great teaching around like ego and like overcoming your [00:06:00] ego, but I think you have this real gift of like, Making our mind a safe place to be.
And in some ways that is the central theme of this series. So if this series in particular is really resonating with you, I want to send you right to Eva. Right? You're like, I can't get enough of this series. Well, yeah,
Eva: that's because you can't get enough. You should
Kyley: go be
Eva: Eva's client. Duh. Thank you so much for pointing that out, Kyley.
Cause I think that's actually so accurate. Like everything that we're talking about in these next couple of episodes. is so much of also what I cover with my clients, which is like trusting yourself and authenticity and not making yourself small and standing up, standing into your power, whatever that might look like for you and, and all these things.
But I wasn't, I wasn't seeing it that way, like until you just pointed that out. I'm like, Oh yeah, exactly. Like everything, if you, Are worried about going crazy, but also, you know, that what you're experiencing and thinking and feeling is like the truth to your depths and you want to live from that space, then yes, come work with me one on one.[00:07:00]
Kyley: Do it.
Eva: Thanks. Um,
Kyley: I one spot open. I'm putting a question mark cause I had a console call somewhat recently and I'm not entirely sure if that's a, that's a yes or a no. Um, but, um, it was really fun. I've been obviously in this really big evolution these past, you know, five months or so, um, around my work and.
I'm starting to have a lot more people show up where their business is the secondary concern. And that has been just really fun because I, I love, I love coaching entrepreneurs and I am holding space and I know that I have a real gift for helping like unpack the particular Um, like patterns of, you know, business and business ownership, [00:08:00] but it's really, I'm constantly struck by how much the work is, is mentorship that the work that I do has.
And somebody says nothing to do with the business is just the portal, right? It's not. And so that's why I always tell people like, I'm not going to give you a strategy. I mean, I might give you an idea if it comes in, but it's like the sprinkles on top of the ice cream. But anyway. I've been having a lot of people, a lot more people popping up in my space who, um, I don't even own a business and we're doing coaching or, um, or like really, really in that space of, Oh yeah, I know.
I know the business. I know that I don't, I want, it feels like a reflection of me owning my own space that the people who are now like showing up are like, no, no, that's good. I also don't want strategy from you again. If it comes in cool, cause my whole theory is. You know, we tend to the friction, we drop down, we [00:09:00] love whatever's underneath it, we rise back up and then there's clarity and there's clear action and there's wisdom.
So in those places, strategy might show up. But anyway, it's been really fun to have. It's the whole journey of like, I'm, I am leaning more, I am owning more fully what it is that I love to do and what I think I do exceptionally well. And as I continue to unmask a lot, our last episode, it's easier for people to find me.
So if that's you, or if you're in the in between, if you're like, I'd like to be that, I'd like to not be totally hung up and anxious and churning, thinking about my business all the time, but I'm, but I'm not cool. I will. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Eva: Or I would say I would like to not be turning in my business.
I can see it's a source of suffering and where I'm stuck. And I know the answer is actually more about. My spiritual evolution and the work that you do, like, I think you're the coach to hire, which is always the coach that I hire. I've hired a business coach before and that was okay, but it was a lot of strategy and also just, it just [00:10:00] didn't go as deep.
And then I've had coaches where like the surface is like, yeah, like, you know, I run a business and you know, that's what I care about. But the way to make my business work is that I find. Like, sovereignty and power within myself, you know, it's always the internal. It's the internal that creates the external.
And I think that's like what you do for people. Yeah.
Kyley: And that's always been what I've done for people, but there were phases where I felt obligated to help you make your business make as much money as fast as possible. Or like maybe your nervous system actually really needed a moment of like deep, deep Rest and recalibration and permission, right?
Sometimes we really need to give ourselves permission to be like, you know what? It's really okay that this is hard. It's really okay that this isn't making the kind of money that I want. Like, I am not wrong for the way in which building this business is hard. Feels hard, um, or isn't thriving like the Instagram glitzy counterparts I'm seeing.
[00:11:00] And, and that in that, in the space of that permission, like this gets to be hard. This is hard. It's okay. I'm not wrong. Woo. And maybe the next month you get to make a shitload of money, right? Like I, and I think, um, I think,
I think the way that we're taught about business and money is often really harmful and really rooted in self rejection. I was talking to this really beautiful person. That's probably also ties into where we're going to go today too. But, um, I was talking to this really beautiful woman yesterday, um, a new client of mine and And she was just sharing so beautifully.
She's like, I have all these tools. I've been doing all this beautiful evolution for like years. Right. She's really embodied. It's really beautiful leader. Um, done lots of healing. And then it's like, and the black box is like, and then when it comes. It's too money in business. I'm watching, you know, five things your CFO wants you to [00:12:00] know, right?
It's like, it's like all her whole life. And I think so many of us do this. Our whole life is this beautiful, spiritual landscape. And then it comes over to the space of business and money. And it's like, okay, well here there are rules and here there's something, you know, the outside dictates and here I have to follow what someone else has told me to do.
And, and, and there, and there's a like unkindness that shows up because we're leaving our best gifts at the door. We just don't really give ourselves permission to bring that same like depth of our spiritual authentic selves. Yeah. So, uh, if any of that's resonating with you, alchemy is enrolling. If you want to focus specifically on money and trauma release and self love.
And, uh, yeah, I got one spot for a one on one. So, awesome. Yay. Love it. Uh, also side note, I was at a party the other day. Sorry, this is such a [00:13:00] tangent, but I was at a kid's birthday party the other day. And so now my kids are in age where I do kids birthday parties, and I meet other parents that are not on the internet, right?
Whoa, people, parents who aren't on the internet, what? And, and, uh, and like a normal conversation is like, oh, what, what do you do? Uh huh, that conversation. I like, don't have the normal answer. I'm watching how much, because I used to just say, oh, I'm a business coach. And I don't want to say that anymore because it is not, um, I think I am a coach.
I am often a coach for business owners, but I am not a business coach. I'm talking to some, like, you know, someone's grandpa, like, oh yeah, I'm a business coach. Right? That's fine. But I'm talking to these moms and I'm like, I don't even my friend. I think you're cool and interesting. And I'm watching how much, uh, basically I'm struggling, and this is probably somehow related to our whole crazy and being fully seen thing.
Mm-Hmm. . Like I, there's a part of me that like totally doesn't have the, like one, like, you know, [00:14:00] the one liner elevator pitch. Mm-Hmm. of like, oh, hi, normal human who also like, you know. maybe doesn't spend all her time thinking about weird esoteric shit. This is what I do. Um, and I can, yeah, I watch how my words get like all Like small and I over, I over explained it and.
Or I, it's a weird thing. So I, it's, that's a, wait, are you only
Eva: just experiencing this for the first time? Because I feel like this is such a common thing in our world. Like this is, this is, I hear so many people talk about this and I've also had this experience to where now, to the point where I'm pretty comfortable just saying like, I'm a meditation teacher, not as a way, it's just so funny.
It's like, I don't even need to, yeah, I don't feel like I need to explain myself. I'm like,
Kyley: It's not that I feel like I need to explain myself. It's like, I actually want to let myself be seen, but I don't have the language to be seen, which is, I think, always an indicator that some part of me just doesn't want to be seen.
And that's why I don't have the language. So it's not, it does, um, My husband's holiday party, not last year, but the year [00:15:00] before we went. And I was joking with him that I was like, I'm going to introduce myself. I'm going to explain what I do as a different way to every person we meet so I can just practice.
I love that. Yeah. And so that was fun. But I like, I, uh, I prepped for it. Um, And not like prepped, like worried, but I just like went in, that was the game that I knew I was going to play this, this field and also like, don't care what people, I'm never going to see them again. Um, This feels, this feels different because again, I think this is about like, Oh, I would like to be seen.
And I think that's it. I'm bumping into the place that's not like, Oh, like I have the, I have the quick answer that just moves the conversation along. But when it's people that I'm interested in, I'm, I'm interested in potentially having a like deeper relationship or more meaningful relationship with, and I want to be authentic.
Um, yeah, I'm struggling with the language, which again, to me indicates, This is what I also always tell people about copy when they're like, well, it's not clear. I don't know my purpose or, and I'm like, no, [00:16:00] no, no, you don't want to know yet because it doesn't feel safe. As soon as you get to the place where you're, it feels safe to know, then you'll know.
Eva: That's interesting. I honestly could ask a million questions about that, but I feel like I'm still bursting to talk about the crazy. Okay. So, so let's, let's, I want to like bring us back there. Otherwise it's going to be a whole nother episode.
Kyley: I actually
Eva: think this is related to where we're going to go.
So we'll leave it in at the end. Okay, great. Um, Transcribed And I'm putting, like, a mental asterisk at this, like, to, like, text you about this later, because I'm like, this is, yeah, okay. So, tell the audience, Kyley. Okay. More about what you were saying at the top of the show. Yes. How you experienced, like, this Am I Going Crazy piece.
Kyley: Listen, any long time listener of the show knows that I, you know, I'm no stranger to mystical experiences. One of my favorites, if you haven't listened to it, is Kyley's drug mushroom trip without actually taking drugs.
Eva: Yes, which I want to give a little bit of background because I feel [00:17:00] like for people to really appreciate what that means is like you've had a full on mushroom trip without actually taking mushrooms.
Yes. Like, because. I went on a
Kyley: solo retreat. Yeah. And um, and, um, It was just in this beautiful, intense, self healing journey and sitting by the water on some rocks in Maine, started to have a full on mushroom, I'd never at that point consumed mushrooms before. I had a full on mushroom trip, lasted hours,
Eva: uh, yeah, that was like transmuted by your friend basically.
It wasn't like, Oh, it just came out of nowhere. It was like you were right in that part of it that it was like, as a result of your friend also doing mushrooms.
Kyley: No, that was another, that was another, I've had actually two, I've actually had two mushroom trips without mushrooms.
Eva: Oh, right. Okay. Yes. I remember now.
First one. The first one we have
Kyley: a whole, actually, I think two part episode about, which was me just straight up like cackling at some seals and [00:18:00] life just, I mean, I, yeah, it's worth listening to, especially if you're interested in this topic of like insanity, because it was this hours long, really intense, really beautiful experience of like, what the.
Fuck is happening to me is again. I was on mushrooms, but I hadn't taken I had not taken mushrooms. I had just been like intensely commuting with spirit so And I've had That's the most profound, but I've had a number of experiences of varying intensity that are not quote unquote normal. Right. And, um, whether it's like channeling or, you know, feeling, I don't see things that often.
That's not really one of my psychic gifts, but, um, So, definitely a like, a sensory awareness that's greater than, you know, the 3D. I don't love that language, but I'll use it [00:19:00] here for the, for the shorthand that we are like most familiar with. Um, and I, sorry, can I interrupt and
Eva: also I just remember years ago, like towards the, the more beginning of your spiritual whatever evolution, there was also like the Akashic records.
And then we've also talked about that. Like, this was a long time ago now. But like, when you're like, You're just like dipping your baby toe into spirituality. You, you know, you might, there's, you have experiences like this. I remember like a lot of our first episodes were about how you, even getting into the Akashic records, you were like, what is this?
Like, um, you know, reading these books and being like, am I insane? And like, you know, hi, hi, hi. Or like, what weren't you saying? Who was it? We were talking something where we would like hide the books that we were reading because like, we were like embarrassed. Right. Or like hiding, hiding crystals. You remember that story you told
Kyley: me where
Eva: you were
Kyley: like, yes, yes.
Oh my God. Yes. Nick and I went to when Desi would turn one years old. So for listeners context, he's turned seven in January. So when Desi [00:20:00] turned one years old, Nick and I went to New Orleans. And there was one afternoon when he was, because he was a baby, he would take a nap and we would take turns like kind of going out and walking around on our own.
And I went to, obviously New Orleans has like great metaphysical shops and I bought some very tiny, essentially like pebble crystals, you know, you can buy. And I put them in a little bag, you know, they give you a little bag. And when we, we packed our bag, I like hid them, we had like one suitcase, I like hid them.
And Nick, when he was unpacking. found them. And he was like, he could just tell that I had that they were not that he could somehow he could tell that they were like, hidden. And he was like, you Did you hide these? Like, he was, it was so generous. I, as I said in the last episode, he's the best husband. He was so kind.
He was just like, Did you, did you, are you, are you afraid I'm going to judge you? Like, if you like something, then I'm, cool, like, cool, that's cool. I'm into it. [00:21:00] And can you show me them? It was so sweet. Uh, versus now for context, everybody, we have an altar in the middle of our living room and my kids regularly talk about conversations that they're having with the trickster gods that hang out in our house all the time.
I know, I
Eva: love this evolution so much. It's just, we were talking about this too last time in the episode, how like it just becomes normal and it's almost effortless. We don't think about it, but I'm glad that you're sharing those stories because I think Those are kind of related to what you're saying, but I also think those are the stories that I think so many people, the experiences so many people have that's like, when we're getting into this, we feel like embarrassed or
Kyley: like, I mean, I think that I have had a lot of, I think it was actually happening with Shane, right?
That like hiding is deeper than embarrassment. I think I was somehow. Ashamed that I wanted to know more about, like the mystical mm-Hmm. Side of things. Mm-Hmm. .
Eva: Yeah, totally.
Kyley: Um, and I think that is,
Eva: that was related for me, related to this like, am I going crazy piece? Yes. Because it's like, yes. Are people are gonna think I'm a weirdo?
Like is there something wrong with me? Mm-Hmm. , like [00:22:00] all that kind of stuff,
Kyley: which is interesting to consider how in that context too, the, am I going crazy? Fear is protection. Right? If in this particular story about the ro the crystals, what I was experiencing was. was shame. Also for listeners, Desi was a kid who was obsessed with rocks and crystals.
And when he was like one and a half to two and a half, he would sleep. We had a, we had to have a one for each hand. Well, this is also how this evolved. The kid was obsessed with rocks of all kinds, crystals of all kinds. And he would, you'd go into like, Kiss him goodnight, and he would be sleeping on a bed of like seven rocks.
I'm not even kidding. That's amazing. Clearly like his little body probably trying to like create grounding or whatever. Yes. Uh, and we had to make a one for each hand rule because we were like, I don't think you should be sleeping on a bed of rocks, kid. Mm hmm. Oh my goodness. Anyway, um, uh, But anyway, thinking like in that story, shame is so painful that we are always seeking to protect ourselves from experiencing it.[00:23:00]
So the, am I going crazy question and fear is actually protection because it's trying to keep us from experiencing. In that instance, shame. And I hadn't thought about it yet as a, as a fear that is trying to protect us from something that feels like a helpful, helpful ones. So, so anyways, to continue. So I've had a bunch of mystical experiences.
I continue to, it's very much my spiritual practice. Like when I meditate often, it's about like dropping into trance and like letting images and sensations and, you know, dialogue.
Um, and you know, I also have felt sense of like what's possible or what's coming or not necessarily. I'm not that invested in this super psychic like scripting of the future, but I do, you know, for example, I'll just say it out loud on the show. Like I have a very, in my body, I feel a very deep, [00:24:00] like just knowing, um, like in the isness that, you know, my business event in, in.
No, not a super long time from now is probably like makes half a million dollars a year. It doesn't now. It's not even set up for that. Um, and yet, you know, the actual numbers plus or minus, but this feeling of in, in the, in my beingness, I have this deep sense of like, Oh no, this business makes a ton of money and not that long from now.
Um, and it's not a thought, it's just this sense of knowing and that's where my fear comes in. That's where my fear of am I going crazy comes in or am I maybe not am I going crazy? That's actually this difference. The fear is am I currently am I currently crazy? Am I currently crazy? because You know, the evidence doesn't say that you have X Y Z or you know, who are you to [00:25:00] believe?
That these pantheon of gods and goddesses are real and like your pals that you talk to while you're driving traffic. Like, I mean, those are markers of, of like, right. Those are things that we think of as. as crazy. So that's actually interesting. That's why I don't, I'm not afraid if I'm going crazy, because I'm actually just afraid that I have
Eva: already fully arrived.
Right. Right. And they're, they're kind of the same thing. Cause you know, it's like, it's like, um, yeah. Am I, am I nuts? Like that's, that's again, like this question I feel like is, is goes hand in hand with a spiritual experience. Like that you don't have one without the other, unless you are actually, maybe, I don't know if that's necessarily true.
I was going to say like, unless you were actually. Well, anyway, oftentimes they go hand in hand.
Kyley: Well, because all of it is, it's just so much of our spiritual experience is about stepping off of the path that's been given to us. Yes. And, um, and I think part [00:26:00] of the, am I already crazy? Part of that fear is also this is different ways of knowing, um, and I can speak more to that.
Often feels less like momentum and a course of action. You know, I think in a lot of ways, I'm someone who lives from a really deep place of faith, um, which is not actually something we talk about that often on the show. Interesting. Cause I feel like my Christian self, my Catholic self, faith was a huge term.
What, what, like the word faith was like a big concept. We don't talk about that much. Maybe that would be interesting, but I think I do live from a really profound sense of place of faith. And, and the way that at this point it feels like no backsies, you know, like I'm in too deep and I have moments of fear that, like, I've been duped.
I mean, again, I hang out with a [00:27:00] bunch of trickster gods, so they've been known to trick a bitch. Uh huh. Or that, um, or that I've duped myself and that, you know, like I've been following this. It's following this path of faith and that's somehow I'm going to get to the like, grand grand reveal. That's, I don't know why that's the thing because I also don't actually think there's a place to arrive, but whatever the fear is that I'll get to the grand reveal and it'll be, you know, like the wizard of Oz and his hokey little, um, closet rather than, you know, that I'll have just been, that I will have been duped in that I will have caused a lot of harm for myself and others in the process of letting myself be, Be duped or like believing in something that was never real.
Yeah. And therefore causing a lot of harm.
Eva: Yeah. Okay. So I want to unpack this a little bit because I feel like the way I'm hearing [00:28:00] is that this feels like a, I don't know if they're separate, but I think, um, I mean, they're all on all under the same umbrella, which is that you're afraid that, you can't like believing the things that you believe is, is, is Yeah.
Like, am I crazy? And I think the things, and so what I'm hearing though, is like, there's different flavors of what you believe. One, it's like not even believe, but like what you're experiencing, like you have the experience. You have these mystical experiences and I don't actually hear you, um, doubt those very much.
Like, you know, you've had many, many, you have mystical experiences every day. Like it's, it's like a common occurrence for you. Like, and, and It is like being in conversation with the God, you know, with your, with your gods or your people, your crew, your ancestors, whatever it is. And it shows up in all these different other ways.
And also just so the audience knows there have been many, many times where you have like intuited or sensed something about me and my life and you just fucking called it. And I was like, [00:29:00] Oh my God, like this is so crazy and creepy. And also. really, like, it's always been really helpful. So anyway, I just want to want to let the audience know that as well.
So it's like, you have these spiritual experiences. And then I also hear the other thing is like, Is it also that you, because the other thing I want the audience to know about you, which is something that I love about you, what I love about being in partnership with you is that you are like the ideas person, like you and our, in our, I think working relationship, you are not afraid to like dream big and you want big.
And I don't know if that's like a, Taurus thing. I don't know. But like you are, it's probably more about my Aries moon, which is
Kyley: like, you know, wants to conquer the whole world. Yes. And well, actually maybe it's a combo because that Aries moon would like to conquer the whole world. And my Taurus sun is like, yes.
And we will be decked out in cashmere on the fucking way. Exactly.
Eva: There it is. That's it. That's it. And I just, I love that. This is what you bring into [00:30:00] our relationship and anyway. Um, and, and then I'm also hearing you say that like, but then you doubt those pieces. Like, is it okay for me to dream this big or think that this is possible?
Like, or that, that's something, something that something can happen, something seemingly impossible, uh, could happen. Yes,
Kyley: yes, yes. So correct. I have these, this, these, you know, I have a, uh, my relationship with the divine or spirit or is, often very experiential. And so it's, I have like these felt sense experiences of these mystical moments.
And I think you're right that I don't doubt those very often, but that's now, I think if we're putting this in a context, and I think a lot of people, and I really want to speak to this because I think this is such a big common part, right? That like I've shared this on the show before, but like when I first started feeling like, Kind of cracked [00:31:00] open and like messages were pouring in.
I literally were Googling, are spirit guides real or am I going insane? Right? Um, and, and so, but the thing, the thing that's really beautiful is that for me, they're so
in my body, the, the more I have healed my relationship with my body, the more my experiences of connection with sorcerer divine are such felt, they're so sensory that the more I have healed my relationship with my body, the more my body has become a place of like safety and home.
It feels impossible to doubt these experiences because they're, they're not in my mind. They're like happening to me, right? Like I, I had one a [00:32:00] couple months ago where I'm like, Type in a way at a coffee shop writing copy and this experience of spirit particular a particular facet of spirit came roaring in and I'm saw, I mean, this doesn't happen all the time.
This was a pretty This was a singular moment, but I'm sobbing in the coffee shop. And then for a couple of hours afterwards, like my body feels different. Um, and in that moment, like I kind of asked my spirit crew, like, what is happening and why is this so intense? And they're like, cause you wouldn't believe it otherwise, but your body is mirroring back to you.
Like, yes, something has happened. Something has shifted. This, this, this was real. This was a moment that you can believe in. So. Interestingly too, because if we think about how much we're trying to like, sometimes we can use the mystical to get out of our body, right? And to escape humanness, it's actually forever deepening for me, the more I let myself be at home in my body, the more I let myself be human that I continue to have like access to and, [00:33:00] and, and fit in like a pretty comfortable, like, yeah, of course that happened because my body, when my body doesn't lie, yeah.
My mind is a liar, my body doesn't lie.
Eva: Yeah. Wow, Kyley, that's really beautiful. And I don't know if I've ever, I, we talk about the body on our podcast all the time. So I don't think this is necessarily new. So if you listen to our podcast, I would just say, and this resonates just go back. I mean, we've had episodes just on the body, right?
I think. Correct. So yeah. So let's do more on that. Yeah. Let's go. You, but, but for starters, like listeners, you can go back and Google those, but like, but I've never heard you say in this way before. And of course that makes complete sense to me that if specifically for you, if. Your mystical experiences are a felt.
physical experience that the more, the more you trust your body, the more it's safe to believe, like the more, but the more it just like is. And so I think that's [00:34:00] like really valuable information for anybody who also is listening, who feels like they have a sense of this, but maybe they're detached and they can access or whatever.
Like I do, I do also think, I mean, for some people it's different. It's audio, like visual or audio, but like, um, but regardless, I actually think finding safety in the body. Yeah. Is always going to be some type of portal into, um, experiencing a deeper relationship with God. Essentially is how I, is how I would, what I would say, call it.
Kyley: And, and I will also add to listeners, um, that was not my starting place. I mean, I was once told I was in yoga teacher training when I was pregnant with Birdie and I remember telling my, my teacher at the time, I would like to just be a head in a jar. In YTT, I was just like, I, this, the, the neck down, I'm very stressed by and don't really enjoy.
But the, like. I would like to be ahead in the jar. So this, this is, this is, and I share that specifically because [00:35:00] I think I, I used to feel really wrong that I didn't feel connected to my body or that I should, or, um, it wasn't safe and gradually over time and through my journey, like it's become safer. Um, so I think that's important if someone's like, well, I feel disconnected from my body, so I guess I can't be a mystic, like false, um, Um, I think you said something really beautiful too, which is that you said it just is.
And I think that's, that's actually often my, at this point with certain mystical experiences, not all of them, you know, sometimes when I'm chatting to a God driving my car, I'm like, are you really talking to me? You know? And, um, but, but I think often when I'm deep enough in my body. Uh, it's the, it just is, it's, it, I can have, I have faith in the isness of it.
And I think that, so again, [00:36:00] to loop back in to the crazy piece, this is where my current iteration of, am I crazy is showing up. Um, because, okay. I have this isness of, I have access to the isness of these experiences and it's just not available for me to doubt them because they're so like, like I said, they're so felt.
Um, but then I also have that parallel feeling about like, What is possible? And what, what is, um, What, like realistic you mean? not necessarily, no. Uh, that's the fear, the fear comes in and it's like that's not realistic. Right. That's the, that's the like thing that comes into like how I nip at my heels. But I will have, so intellectually, your point, I, I'm a big dreamer. I have like lots of ideas. I get excited about, let's do this or let's do [00:37:00] this.
Or I think it would be fun one day to do this. Or I can, I can intellectually envision like a huge conference with hundreds of people there. Right? Like,
Eva: it's what I would call like unlimitedness. It's not just that you have like a lot of ideas and like, they're like, like, I feel like you have a capacity for unlimited thinking, which is cool because I think for a lot of people, that's not natural.
Like the default is like, Because, because limit is an interesting thing. You don't even know that you're limited because that's just like the, that's just like the container that you lived in until someone else goes, no, let's do, let's do this. And you're like, and you're completely out of the box. And so you have, it's fun.
I mean, I think, I think we all. Anyway, I think we all are able to access that in some ways, but also, you know, how sometimes it's just really helpful when you didn't even know that you were limited and someone's like, Oh wait, but you could do that. But you could, you could make sure you can make half a million, but did you also know you can make a million and you hadn't even like thought about that?
You know what I mean? Like those types of minds, which I really appreciate. [00:38:00]
Kyley: Yes. Oh, I really thank you for that reflection. I, I, I, I'm thank you. Um, sometimes that's been very escapist in the past. So again, to embodiment, like in the past, that's been an escapist thing. That's like, well, this place I don't want to be.
So let's just come up with all these ideas of like, how we could rescue ourselves by being somewhere else and doing something. Um, um, and so sometimes I'm not very kind to my idea, you know, my like what's possible generator. Um, yeah, and I constantly am like, Giving these messages and these visions of just like you could do whatever you want, you know You want to be the next Oprah go be the next Oprah, right?
And like even as I said that out loud my heart was like, right?
Eva: Always the beginning though, it's so good. So good. Yeah. No, I would like to now delete this
Kyley: podcast and never talk to y'all again Bye[00:39:00]
And so, yeah, I have this, I, so I think that's it. I have, I, I have this felt since either like in two things. One is just this knowing of like, anything is possible. Like, if you want it, then it is possible. Right. And, and that like coming in for me. And then also this felt sense of like, a kind of inevitability of certain things that I've already set in motion.
And then I feel, you know, Like my faith in those things is dangerous. It's that's that it's dangerous that it will somehow cause harm that I am like blindly following. Um, uh, yeah.
Eva: Even as you say that I'm getting like, I know the feeling of like, I was trying to apply that to my own life and seeing where I see that.
And we, a couple. Um, weeks or months [00:40:00] ago, not too long ago, we did an episode on like joy and, um, and
I think the topic was like feeling unlimited joy. Basically that it's really scary to dream big things or in the instance of joy, like to, to, to unlimited joy into your life because. It's so vulnerable to be wrong. Like you, like you said, you could get the rug pulled out from under you or,
yeah, I guess what I mean is like, it is a risk. It's a risk to dream that bigly. Yeah. Because. Yeah. We don't know that it's going to happen and, um, we could fall flat on our faces. Like that's what it is anytime we go for anything that's important to us. It's so scary.
Kyley: [00:41:00] And sometimes falling flat on your face is actually like a built in step in the process.
Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. I'll, uh, my life's a mess. Uh huh. Let's, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll. Spill the tea on that soon. Um, um, but yeah, this feeling of like, and actually I think that's sometimes where my, my fear that it's dangerous comes in is because I know my own journey has shown me. When you set an intention, when you cast a spell for a bigger, richer, deeper way of being, um, which is always what we're asking, always asking for.
We might tie it to material things, right? Like a book deal, but there's, we're actually asking for this deeper embodiment of ourself that we think is tied to that thing. The[00:42:00]
bigger the vision, sometimes bigger the death births that wow. And sometimes I think my fear that it's. dangerous, is that I'll be left disappointed, but sometimes my fear is, Oh, what fire do I have to walk through? Like, what, what, what false self that I'm currently holding on to has to die for that to become and
Eva: yeah.
Except something that's coming up for me right now is like,
this is a bit of a tangent, but what if like the dying of the false self doesn't have to, what if it gets to be easy? Like, what if it gets to be playful? I think this is a side note, but I have just been really like the minute that you said that what came up for me was like, I was like, Oh, that sounds really profound.
This idea of like the bigger the vision, the bigger the death. But I almost felt like there was an [00:43:00] implication of like, Uh, then I have to go suffering that I have to go through this thing that's like really awful and hard. And I think that's so much of our default story that we just assume it's going to be like
Kyley: painful.
Yeah. I, I think that that's true. And that's something I've been sitting with for, we've talked about this in the show for a while. Like I do think transformation asks us to shed these, I think transformation always asks us to shed something, but I agree it doesn't, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be.
Painful, or it certainly doesn't have to be full of suffering. I think it can be, I think it can be really easy. I don't, I'm not interested in describing this idea that, that it has to be hard and painful
and sometimes we don't realize how much we are invested in the thing that has to die. And right, those are the times where it hurts. I think are the times where we're really invested in, where we're really attached what has [00:44:00] to go and we don't know it. . Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, and so I don't think it has to hurt, but our attachment creates suffering and sometimes we don't know where we're attached until it starts to
Eva: peel itself away.
That's, yeah, that's true. It's really true. Okay. Going back to, I think your original point, or I think what I basically, I forgot where we left off, but I think the, what I want to bring us back to is like. Yeah. It is really scary to believe in the unlimited nature of life, essentially, that's kind of what I mean.
It's like, this is, and, and that's like also what I, I'm hungry for that. Like I, I live there, you know, like I, I'm also like, I think you're a big ideas person, but I actually do believe in the unlimited nature of life. Like all possibilities exist. And that is like, and, and, and our experience of life is actually infinite and it's amazing and it's beautiful.
[00:45:00] Um, But I think we want to live that way there. For me, maybe it is about like, I have to embrace that. Maybe I am a little bit crazy or like, yeah, I am going to get hurt, like, and that this is a risk. And so, you know, where you're talking about how you might hurt people or you might hurt someone along the way.
And for you, I imagine it's yourself, but also your family, you know, like what if you believe in all of these things and you've taken all these risks, but really you're just, you know, inconveniencing is a light word, but really harming your kids and your, and your husband. Right. Yeah.
Kyley: Um,
Eva: I know, I don't know if you have better advice than this, but it's like, all we can really do is, I mean, make smart choices.
Yes. That feel connected to our, our heart and our, our integrity and our truth. But like we just do it scared. Like there's, there's no, there's no, um, you do have to take a risk. That's it. You just have to be vulnerable and love yourself the whole way through. [00:46:00]
Kyley: Yes. So this is an interesting question. And actually this came up in a conversation yesterday.
How do you tell the difference? Between the, when the risk is a genuine invitation from your heart. It's like, this is the risk to take versus when it's an unkind risk. That's an overextension.
Eva: That's such an interesting question. There's a bit of a long pause before this. Um, I feel like I have more of a cheeky answer, which is that like, what if life is not that serious and you have a fucking lifetime and you have multiple lifetimes.
And like the only way that you know, is that you around and find out, Hmm. Like that's my cheekier answer. That's just like. I don't know man like I'm not gonna say that like there's a way for you to know but like What if you were just here to play? And make mistakes and find out which I know, which is the antithesis, which I think is actually really helpful.
It's the antithesis of like [00:47:00] the story of like, Oh my God, we're going to hurt people. It's so serious. It's so heavy. The stakes are so high. The stakes are so high. Like we're in this, like our nervous system is in elevated state of like. This very tight, small world where every move we make, it's like we're on a fucking tightrope.
And that's exactly the metaphor I love to use about this question. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's just interesting that that's coming in because I was going to give like some more practical answer of like, Oh, you could do this to like, follow your heart and whatever, check what's an integrity with you. And all of those things are, are I'm sure I could share things on that too.
But right now I'm just in this place of like, Yeah. What if it's not that serious, dude?
Kyley: I think that is actually, I love your cheeky answer because I think one of the like things that causes so much suffering is this feeling of being on a tightrope and this idea that there's a right and a wrong to the point of the roomy quote I read at the last episode.
Um, I'll be on the field of right out beyond right and real there, right and wrong. There is a field I'll meet you there. [00:48:00] Um, And, um, the,
the, the prison of right and wrong, which is also the prison that if I take one wrong step, I will be, I, like, there will be suffering, there will be punishment, I will be in trouble, I will hurt people, right, that there are bad consequences for me making the tiniest misstep. That very logic. is the, is the, is the, is the prison of insanity that we're actually prodding because the truth of life is joyful and playful and it is supposed to be chaotic and it is supposed to be full of ups and downs or actually like being in alignment.
It's a phrase for ritual spirituality circles left to throw around, but we make this idea that we tell this idea that to be in alignment is somehow to only feel good or to only have good things happen to you. Like, Heaven on earth is to be alive with everything that exists, right? Not to like slice life in [00:49:00] half and only have certain kinds of experiences, right?
And so I think what you're saying is, is really important because the answer is, what if I wasn't going to get punished? What is to your point of like, You know, what kind of, I think of like, what fire am I going to have to walk through? Like, well, what if it wasn't, what if it wasn't full of suffering, right?
What if it was, if it all got to be love and that it was just like a merry romp through the woods in which sometimes you trip over a rock, you know, but that's also an experience because now your hands are in the dirt. That's interesting.
Eva: I'm having an emotional experience because that is something that I've just really been, have experienced a lot, like throughout my journey, but also more like it feels more condensed recently.
Is that like, and this also relates back to my ayahuasca trip. But Yeah. Journey ceremony of like [00:50:00] always like it's the whole experience is love and like life has always got me like no matter Fucking what and I'm over here. Yeah, it's that you know it's that funny meme where you're like you're treading water and you think you can't swim and you're like Flailing and then you and then you stand up and you realize the water only goes up to your knees or goes up to your Waist or whatever that whole thing.
It's like it's life is not that serious And then you fuck around and you find out and that sounds like it's going to be really like painful or, or I don't know, just like, there's gonna be a lot of suffering. But then I've had moments where then I like, look up, it's almost like a feeling of like looking up and I see the sun shining.
I'm like, Oh no, that was just in my head. The hell that I was experiencing was all in my head, but life itself was nothing but benevolent and kind and loving the whole time. And like, she totally had my back. And I think that, and I think that we miss that often. [00:51:00] Um, and also what's really interesting is as, as I was like getting this very strong sense of like, I don't think it has to be hard.
And also, cause it, cause I want to relate this back to what we were originally talking about. It's like, what if we take these risks? We believe these things, we think we're going to be like, you know, we were gonna, we want to be the next Oprah, whatever it is. Um, but then I like hurt my family along the way.
And it's like, I think what I'm seeing is it's not that serious and you make, take this risk and you lose some money or whatever it is. And, and then you look up and you see that like. Um, everything's actually, like, if we can look up, we can see how good everything is and how beautiful everything actually already is.
And and then that is actually the thing that makes space for even more goodness.
Kyley: But what's also
Eva: interesting when I'm noticing my own process is on the coattails of this is I'm having a little bit of that, am I crazy voice coming in and being like, Oh my God, Eva, I sound [00:52:00] so like, cause this is what I really believe.
And not only do I believe this, but I've experienced this. And then I'm like, but sometimes it feels dangerous to say these things because. It feels overly optimistic. I'm not being, I'm not being realistic. You know, that's all, that's like the word that I brought up earlier. Like, um, or I sound like some airy fairy, um, person who has her head, their head in the clouds and the whole, the eerie, the, the, the ironic thing about being realistic is that, and I was like thinking about this the other day is like, if I were to be realistic, being realistic means anything can happen.
Like, because reality has shown us that, like, reality is, is only made up of all miracles. Everything is a fucking miracle. And so if I'm saying be realistic, that should actually mean, okay, then expect miracles every single fucking second.
Kyley: Holy fuck. Everybody hit that little backwards 15 second button and really listen to that.[00:53:00]
Be realistic actually is to expect miracles.
Eva: Yeah, I mean, because what isn't a fucking miracle? It's just we don't what isn't
Kyley: a miracle
Eva: and so therefore anything is possible
Kyley: Also, I want to reflect back This is what gets to happen when you're not afraid of being crazy Or you just like let the fear sit there without giving her without her getting to muzzle you Because yeah, I mean this is exactly what we need. I you just said Which is the thing, which is the thing that you're my crazy self would like to muzzle or add caveats to that is the thing we need.
And that is, I think, specifically a, a, a facet of evil wisdom, like that thing that you just said. Which I think is one of the consistent truths for you. And also one of the consistent places where I, you know, we've talked about this [00:54:00] before, where like the desire to put on caveat acts comes in. Um, and that moment just now where you said the thing, you know, to be true without caveats, like took me to fucking church, man.
And we don't get that same impact when we put in the, you know,
Eva: Yeah. And I, and I will also say, but this idea of like, or this concept of you say of this like muzzle, I think it's really helpful. It's like, it's still there. That voice is there, you know? And I think my, and it's okay. I think my practice is like, I do a lot of like preamble, as you know, all the time to try and explain things away.
And I'm really practicing, like maybe not doing that so much, but But as long as it doesn't get in the way, I think of me, I can just do this. I mean, I think it's the balance of like, yeah, sometimes I'm going to feel like maybe self conscious about what I say, but I say it anyway. And so far that's just, just the practice.
Kyley: Oh, okay. I want to [00:55:00] respond to that. And I also don't want to lose a thread about like, does it have to be suffering? Cause there's stuff like this. Cause I want to come back to that, that, or you just said is also how I have walked myself. To it's safe to have faith in the things I know to be true because I just keep doing it.
Right. And at first it was. Oh, I am saying this prayer and then I'm hearing and channeling, you know, source and it feels pretty significant. And I'm going to believe that. Oh, people are crying when I say when I do these things. So, okay. Right. And, or like, okay, I want, you know, I, I have this knowing to, um.
Well, like when I lost my job back in 2020, right? I have this knowing that I'm fine. I don't need it anymore. And then that turned out to be true. And so I, it's like, um, [00:56:00] temporary, temporary act of faith, right? I don't ask myself to like, you just go go into the water to the extent that you are comfortable, you know?
Um, and. And so I think that's exactly it. It's like, okay, or you know, you were saying the other day, like earlier today, we do it scared. Right? And so it's like, what does it look like to do it scared? Well, it looks like this, right? I'm like, okay, I am, I am afraid that, um, That this particular step is dangerous.
And also, I feel, I feel the knowing that this is the step. And so here we go. And then my foot lands soft on the ground. And so then I do the next one, and then I do, you know, and maybe then eventually we're running on thin, we're running out in thin air. Um, but I think, I think that's it. It's just this practice of like holding gently the part of us who's, who's scared, right?
So do it. Scared isn't [00:57:00] like, Oh, just do it. It's a gentle compassion of the part of us who's scared. And I often think of it as like, okay, I see you and I love you and I'm going to tuck you into my pocket because your needs are valid, but we're not gonna, we're not gonna, um, let you run the show. Yeah. Yeah.
You get to be here. We would like you here. You have, your contribution is valuable, but. Um, we're gonna, we're gonna let the grownups be in charge. And I say that, say that not condescending, like I think that is a little kid part of me. Right? So it's like, you don't have to be in charge, little kid. You thought you did because you kind of had that experience, but like, you don't have to be in charge.
Yeah. You can just like trust grown up or God self or whatever.
Eva: Yeah.
Kyley: Yeah.
Eva: Oh, so beautiful.
Kyley: Which is also giving me the reminder that, you know, okay, sometimes I have these like big ambitious dreams. One, I think we always just do not that attached to them. Right. Um, [00:58:00] um, I think what's also showing up is the reminder, like, it's just this one step that I'm being asked to take. So that's the step to do it.
It's just, just this one step. The rest of it doesn't matter.
Eva: Yeah. Because the fear that we're experiencing anyway only ever lives in like the future, meaning like we're afraid that if we do this thing and believe this thing that, that we're We're in the future, which is, which is a surefire way to create anxiety, but do you know what I mean? It's like, it's not even real.
Kyley: It's so funny. Cause as you said that the part of me who was afraid is like, no. We're unsafe right now. What are you talking about? Of course. The story of the fear is in the present, but our is in the future, but our experience of it is like in our present bodies, which again I think is why, and this comes to the point I want to talk about suffering, is why is why I continue to find so much relief in allowing story and experience to [00:59:00] separate from each other.
So story is, you know, the, the chatter and worries and narration of the mind and experience is the feeling and you live in story. Ironically, because we're trying to avoid the feeling, right? So we live in the story of fear because we don't want to feel the fear. But if we just get, but it's also causing the fear, but it's actually causing, because if you think it's like a little kid, one of the things I love about my daughter, Nick and I were talking about this last night, if she's having a big emotion, she is not interested in you moving her along.
Like early yesterday. She started to cry. I love, of
Eva: course, because she is just a queen. She is. She
Kyley: is. God, she really is. So yesterday, she started to cry like big tears because she doesn't want to go to kindergarten. I don't know where it came from. She's like, I'm never leaving my school. She doesn't, she, she doesn't really love change.
So she. She's like, I'm never [01:00:00] leaving my school. I'm never going to kindergarten. I love Mrs. I'm never leaving Mrs. I that's her current teacher who is the best. And I was like, yeah, Mrs. I is going to be your Spanish tutor starting in June. Like it's fine girl. Right. But she doesn't care. Right. Charlotte's your best friend.
Charles not going anywhere. Cause you're I'm besties with her mom. Right. But when she is in that moment, she was so sad that she would have to leave this current experience and do something new that she did not give a shit about the ways it was going to be okay. She did not give a shit about how I want the parts of me that wanted to like mollify her She wanted to be mad and sad and angry and upset and the thing that I love about my daughter Is that that's the only way to love her in those but see like she's very clear about how she wants you to love her in those moments, which is like Let me be mad or let me be upset and she didn't even want to, I was like, do you want to come sit in my lap?
It's like, nope, I'm going to sit in my car seat and kick the back of the seat and be upset. And the tears were rolling down my face. I don't know what prompted it, right? And [01:01:00] then she was fine. Right? Then she was sitting in my lap and we colored and had like a great day. That's all of our parts too, right?
Like our fear just wants a moment to be witnessed. The part of us that's afraid just wants to, wants us to sink down and feel our fear. Have the temper tantrum. Be in it. Just be in it to whatever extent that our body and nervous, right? Like this is where we increase our capacity to feel our feelings.
Just wants that. And then it can go on with its day and like sit in your lap and color. But we just try to like, no, no, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Don't be afraid. And they're like, the fear is birdie, who's like, fuck you. I am afraid. Stop telling me not to be. Right. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . And this goes to my point of s suffering, right?
We were talking earlier about this idea of like, okay, you cast a big spell, you put out a big desire, like the universe is like message received. And then. On some level there's all these versions of not [01:02:00] self that have to you know fall away for you to become. Because I really want to remind us. If you, you know, the me that's like, I'm gonna be the next Oprah.
Which I don't actually even, that's, I'm not totally sure that that's what I want. I definitely want a book deal. Um, uh, but like what I want yes is the experience of writing a book and going on a book tour. That sounds very fun. And What I also want is to be the embodiment of that self, the experience of the self who like, lets herself speak that potently and has that depth of confidence in her particular wisdom and like, lets delightful things happen to her, right?
That's what I really want. The book is amazing. The book is just the indicator to the deeper experience that I want to create for myself. And so in that case, the book is neutral. Um, as I said, that I heard a part of it was like, the book is not neutral. Um, We will not accept not book. So it was just interesting to watch.
Anyway, um, [01:03:00] um, so, okay. So then all the parts of me who are in this case, like afraid to speak or like, want to add these caveats to our words or are afraid of being judged for our particular wisdom, or maybe to the point of this series. The episode are worried that our wisdom is a crock of shit. And if we tell too many people, they'll come for us with pickets.
Yes. Uh, cause they, you know, they'll feel duped. Um, anyway, I, um, and so there's all, so those selves have to fall away. And the fear then is, well, that that will, that will require a ton of suffering, right? Because it will be painful to let all those cells go. It might. And you remind me of this all of the time suffering is in the story, right?
When I'm actually like, when I actually sit in the [01:04:00] feelings of, you know, fear or grief or outrage or whatever discomfort I'm avoiding, it's fine. And I actually. It can be euphoric to like really right when, and we, I think this has been a practice and, and, you know, this is what alchemy actually is all about.
If anyone is curious. Um, you actually,
I'll actually just tell a story. So, Yesterday, two days ago, two days ago, I was DMing you a whole bunch because I was like in the churn about something, right? It was like just in the fucking churn. Um, and I finally, the metaphor I gave you is I finally, I couldn't figure out what the release valve was, right?
It was like, there's some kind of relief here and I don't know what it is I'm looking for. And I finally like found it and like hit the release valve and I was fucking pissed. That's what was underneath all the things that I was pissed about. [01:05:00] I tend to seek sadness and pity so that I don't have to be mad, right?
I have a harder time trusting my anger and so I will hide it from myself. And so instead I gave myself permission, still not full permission, I can still feel where it's like, Oh yeah, to just be pissed. I was pissed at God. I was pissed at my spirit crew. I was pissed at people. I was pissed. And you know what?
Well, good to be back. It didn't feel like suffering. It did not feel painful. It didn't feel like suffering. It just felt alive and it felt safe.
Eva: And it felt because it, yeah, it was a release valve, like, like to not feel it because you think it's wrong or it's too much. That's where the suffering is. And all of a sudden you hit the release valve and you're like, Oh my God, this feels so fucking good to finally just feel what the fuck I was feeling, but not.
And the thing that I want to add to that is you were saying that, like, you know, I remind you that it's to feel these things is, is [01:06:00] where it's like. You know, the sufferings in the story, but the experience is, is actually okay. More than okay. I would say it's like, it really is experience of unconditional love for me because it's like, this is, I'm how I am is totally allowed.
This experience is totally allowed to wake. What else? That is unconditional love. What else is there? Like, that's it. Yes. Yes. Yes. And therefore it's like this trust that I build in myself and in life to be like this, this too. It belongs and it's beautiful and there's no judgment or
Kyley: condemnation. And not as something to survive to like, you know, that song, like, can we skip to the good part?
It's like, it's all the fucking good part. You're right. It's all the good part. Yes. And it's all the bad part. It's all the, all parts, but like I, I find, and this has very much been a thing I've had to like expand capacity to, and, um, but I find real euphoria when I actually, like, When I can sink deep enough beneath the [01:07:00] story into the experience, I really find it to be euphoric.
Even, and it's not a kind of euphoria that's like, Oh, and now I'm not angry or now I'm not grieving or now I'm not, um, feeling pain, but it's a kind of euphoria that is, um, it's very apparent to me how my anger is a portal into love, but also, you know, it's My anger is the fabric of love and to the point of kind of mystical transcendent things.
It's hard to put this into words and it's not something I get at this point have access to all the time. But not only does it not need to be suffering, um, this is where I'm afraid that I'm fucking crazy and I was going to come for me with pitchforks, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, which is the same thing you have to say.
Not only Not be suffering. I actually think it can be euphoric. If you actually let yourself fully [01:08:00] fall into the depths of the gnarliest emotions, not only can you create tremendous healing, I actually think you can experience them as euphoric and transcendent and really profound experiences of, of joy as you are sitting in something that also is.
Pain.
Eva: Yes. And so therefore nothing needs to be, you don't need to be afraid of anything. Nothing needs to be avoided. Like nothing is, there's nothing to be feared, which I think goes back to the fear of, am I going crazy for believing this thing? Like, what if I want to be the next Oprah or whatever, I'm going to do this thing.
I'm going to put my family at risk. It's like, No matter what happens, the worst thing that can happen, honestly, even if we lose everything and we get in a huge fight with our partners and our kids, um, I mean, this is a bit of a tangent, but whatever, we end up houseless or whatever. It's actually, it's not the, it's not the situation that causes us [01:09:00] suffering.
It's the emotion. The thing that is the most terrifying for all of us isn't the circumstance, it's how it makes us feel. What we're afraid of is the feeling of what it's going to feel like when we're in a big argument with our partner and that we're houses and when our kids don't have an, like, it's the feeling.
And so knowing how to be, yeah, knowing how to be with that. I mean, we've taught, we've done so many episodes on this, like we talked about it before and it keeps coming up because it is, It is the whole juice, the whole jam, I mean, but like, um, it goes back to like how everything's
supportive in
Kyley: a way. And to the point of love your monsters. If you have a big outrageous dream, interesting language, if you have, have a vision, have a want, want, and you're afraid that the consequence or the cost or the price you'll pay is not You know, a big fight with your partner or whatever. And what I immediately sensed the emotion that we were kind [01:10:00] of pointing to is actually shame, right?
That you would, that somehow you would suffer shame to be cast out of love. That's shame. And that you will, that, that if you. That the cost of pursuing this is that you'll be cast out of love. The antidote, what we mostly try to do, understand, I mean, because shame is the not fun to feel, is we, we run it, we just try to run away from it.
We try to build up walls. We try to protect ourselves. That's what our story is. We're going to protect ourselves from the feeling. But if you turn towards the shame, Guess what? This is the really great thing. You get to skip the fight with your partner because the fight with your partner was just an invitation to feel the shame that you're afraid to feel.
Yeah. So if you give yourself permission to turn towards the monster of your shame, and sometimes I tell that I call this micro dosing, like give yourself five seconds to feel the shame. If that's what's coming up, it's micro dose on it. They don't have to go like wallow in it, but just like let your body.[01:11:00]
Acclimate for a second to this thing that you're sprinting away from as fast as possible because then eventually we don't have to keep running.
Eva: Yeah.
All right. This is going to have to be like a seven, a 50 yeah, this is our new podcast, a 50 part series because I feel like, okay, so we're at time and I know we get, we got to wrap this up soon. Oh wow. That went fast. Yeah. And I feel like there's still so much more to say. What was the thing that you wanted to come back to earlier?
You were like, we did
Kyley: this, like it doesn't have to be suffering, but the distinction of, of like the mind and the story is where the suffering is. That's what creates the suffering. The feelings are not only safe, but they are, uh, they are safe. They are an invitation into greater love. They are love themselves.
And. And they're what we want because it's what to the point of last episode, there's, there's off, there's this tremendous authenticity to how we want to be authentic. Well, what's authentic, however you feel right [01:12:00] now, that's the authentic you. So
Eva: yeah. And I think that I want to add to that though, because this does feel like a big piece of, I think we're going to eventually record an episode.
We're going to get there. Like how we integrate all of this, how we, like our story of, Um, not redemption. That sounds a bit dramatic, but like, uh, reconciliation with being crazy, you know what I mean? Like finding peace with being crazy. That's going to be an upcoming episode. But, but part of it is also for me, trusting life.
Like that whole thing that I was saying earlier about like, life is very supportive. I would, I would love to talk about that more because I think that's very much something that's just, Um, and really trusting love like that's, that's always been something that has guided the both of us, obviously. Um, but also like just really playing around with that.
Me having the experience of like, could it be that, and this, you know, this comes from Tom, like, could it be that I can trust life and every like now in this moment and in this one [01:13:00] and on a moment by moment basis and just seeing that life has always had me even when I thought that it didn't.
Kyley: And that was my beautiful experience on Tuesday was like, okay, I want to trust life, right?
That's what this whole episode is about is how I have in some ways pretty intense faith in the ways in which life is love. And I was really mad at life on Tuesday. I was really mad at, you know, God's source. I was so mad. Um, and, and I wanted to trust, but like any good relationship, if you're not honest, then you can't, then you're not, it's not real.
And so how did I, how did I create for myself an experience of trusting life on Tuesday by letting myself see and then feel that I was really pissed at life.
And so trust is not a box we squeeze ourselves [01:14:00] into. It's like this, I don't know, unfolding that we allow. Yeah.
Next up on. Am I going crazy? Helen universe edition. Um, we've hinted at this, but I, we're each has spoken to our personal interior experience around this fear of being crazy. I know a huge part of this is like, well, what will other people think?
And so. We're going to go there next.
Eva: Is that where we're going? What will other people think? Are we not going there? I don't
Kyley: know.
Eva: Wait, say more. Say more. Tell me more. Tell us and the audience more.
You mean this idea of like, how do we reconcile other people think perceiving us as crazy? Is that what you mean?
Kyley: First episode was I'm afraid to go crazy. What, you know, standing almost like, almost on like the edge, right? Like, is, am I, [01:15:00] am I? Can I, is it okay if I try to go crazy? This episode I think was about like, oh we're in, I think we might be crazy. And I think next we want to talk about, all right, full send. I've committed.
I've stepped out. My foot is just landing in thin air. I am insane. What are the consequences? How do I deal with the projection and perceptions? Like what comes next?
Eva: Yes. Okay. Yes. Very well said. And I think for me, what? It feels like a juicy episode. Why this was juicy is because I'm still integrating this and this is something I'm still learning.
So I think the podcast will be just personally helpful for me as a part of my journey in accepting quote unquote craziness. Like I think what I really, what feels juicy and rich is like, what do we do about this? You know? And how do we, how do we live from this? Um, and then also as you were saying, as also as our, as Sarah asked, she, you know, this was partly prompted by a Q and [01:16:00] A from one of our guests, like, how do we deal with being perceived as crazy?
And I think how we deal with it is very much dependent on how we feel about ourselves. They're connected, like how we, yeah, how we feel about our own selves is then the answer to how it's perceived.
Kyley: Oh, and I think what we're going to talk about is, um, you mentioned this in this episode and I've mentioned it before too, right?
You're part of what holds you back from like saying everything's fucking love. Part of me, part of what holds me back is like, we can create whatever we want. Let's go. Right. Is, um, that we are really afraid of. Being the thing we judge, so I also think we're going to spend some time acknowledging how we are the thing that we judge.
Eva: Oh, my God. Yes, Kyley. Yes, yes, yes. I think that's going to be so helpful. And yes, yes, like you just nailed it. And that was actually in my notes of something that I want to talk about. So, yes, let's go there.
Kyley: Because we're only afraid of the things [01:17:00] that we're don't, you know, we're resistant to. So let's just like lean all the way in.
Eva: Oh, Gideon, I cannot wait. I'm a wide bringing hot
Kyley: manifestation coach. You're an
Eva: airy fairy, love and light.
Oh my god, I am dead and that is so good. I'm like, I'm ready to embrace it. Like, just so you say it that way, I'm ready to go all in. Let's fucking go.
Kyley: I'm dying. Listeners, please know we're like really marathoning Hello Universe recordings this week. And so I'm gonna go bring my kids to school and shower and then immediately record this episode, we're promising. And I like cannot wait for the next 45 minutes to pass already. Yes. Alright,
Eva: let's go. Okay, do we want to do Joy?
Joy? Yeah. Yeah, we can't skip Joy. Okay, yeah, we've done it for all, what, every episode, all four years. All right. Joy. Um, One thing that has been me a lot of joy is. Um, my deepening connection to nature [01:18:00] in Brazil, which is a little bit related to also this idea of going crazy. It's like, cause what's been happening is like, I do believe that there's definitely such thing as community with nature and hearing nature and, and, and being guided by nature.
And that's, I think my, those are like where my, my mystical experiences come in for me. It's very, very grounded in like the conversations and the physical feelings that I have when I'm in nature. Um, And maybe who knows, that could be like part seven of this episode or whatever. It's like, am I going crazy because nature is talking to me,
Kyley: which if you think of nature as an extension of your body, it's also really beautiful weaving of,
Eva: yes, exactly.
Kyley: Portal to mystical is to be
Eva: human. Yes. Yes. But anyway, really the joy is like, I live in a place now where I have two, like, like swimming holes half an hour away from me, like, like beautiful rivers, I could just go and swim. [01:19:00] And, and the thing is, I've realized because I think I'm an earth sign, I can't swim.
I'm much more connected to rocks and minerals than I am to water. It's not that I don't love water. I love the beach. I love a river. But what I really love is going to the river and just having my back up against like my bare skin up against a rock and like receiving rock energy and it feels so fucking grounding and so like the rock is so steady and so wise, so intelligent.
It's just like unshakable. And like, that's what I get. I think when I rub my, rub my body up against these rocks. And it's just very joyful. I get out into nature when I'm like stressed. And I just had this feeling yesterday of like, Oh, I get it. Like, thank you stress, because you're the thing that's pushing me towards getting into nature more.
And it is a bomb. And I just, it's amazing. Like how like the transformation I experienced when I spend time with. [01:20:00] With Pachimama. So that is my joy. And I can't wait to share more about that experience here too in Brazil because I think these mountains that I'm living in, I've been told her and I sense it.
They're powerful. They are powerful. Apparently they're like amethyst caves, like all in these mountains. And I just like, there's an energy here that is just like really fucking potent. And it is awesome.
Kyley: I love that. And you just gave me some, a really interesting experience, which is, um, I, you know, listeners I've shared often, like I am, I am a water girl.
I like, you know, my dad's like, I, the ocean is my place. Even now, like it's raining and I can feel the fat drops of rain on the roof. And I'm like, sued. Like, I'm not, I don't really have that much water in my, if you do an astrology, I'm not even particularly watery, but the water Like home, right? I just always want to be near her body of water.
Lake, river, brook, stream. I mean, you know, ocean gets top billing [01:21:00] as a, you know, uh, uh, as a girl who grew up on it. But, um, my, my, my profound experiences with rocks and with mountains. Always had this really cool resonance of, um,
this is not my language. And I'm being, I am being like, the rocks are showing me, I go inside this moment in Alaska, like sobbing in front of this mountain. And it was like this, I mean, the mountains there are insane, but it was like, and I have these rocks in my backyard, my whole house is on built on granite and like, similarly, I had these moments with, with both of them.
That's like, just really. Tremendous love, but sometimes it's a little confusing for me to receive it because it's such a different. It's not my first language and I never fully put it into that context till just now. And so now I'm actually really excited to go, like, chill with my granite in the backyard.
And it's like giant, giant boulder that my son [01:22:00] climbs. with the awareness that this isn't my language and therefore I can like lean further through the, not dissonance, but the like, I don't know how to describe it. Well,
Eva: I'm also hearing you say that maybe there's something there, like it's, it's not your first language.
And so there's something there, like lean into it because there's, it's there, there's something here for you to learn. It's here to teach you something, or at least because that's how I feel about water. Water is not my first language actually, but when you were talking about it, I was like, Oh, but that's not a problem.
This is a good thing. Like water is my friend because she's here to show me something.
Kyley: Yes. And I think it's I haven't always, I, because it's only first language, I don't always hear it. So I'm not always listening. And so now I'm kind of excited to go lean against my rocks in the backyard and listen.
Because I, I just, I haven't necessarily been, Oh, that's cool. Awesome. All right. My, I just want to list, I'm going to just list Joyce. Cause I feel like I have so many, I have an office now that's have Mr. My house. I've shared this before, but [01:23:00] now it is decked out and decorated. It's still a journey, but I've got a pink velvet couch.
I have got a green, also velvet chair. I have a standing desk. I have plants. My statue of Ganesh was like, could we not be in the sad bookshelf that no one pays attention to? We would like to be in your office. I have a little like tea caddy. I mean, it is like. I had a guest come and see my office yesterday.
She was like,
Eva: Oh,
Kyley: yes, that is the vibe in your
Eva: office.
Kyley: So that is one thing the rain is bringing. It's April rain, rain, rain. And it just feels so beautiful. Um, I'm going on Monday. My parents live in Maine. And if anyone's paying attention, the solar eclipse is happening in Northern Maine, like 90 minutes from them.
So I'm doing a insane Do not have time for this trip up to Maine to go see the solar eclipse with my kids. My mom is amazing. I was like, Hey, should we do the solar eclipse within 20 minutes? She's like, I bought the glasses. I picked the town. I've mapped it out. When are you coming?
Eva: Oh my God.
Kyley: Yes. Sheila
Eva: come
Kyley: through.
Yes, [01:24:00] yes, yes. Um, I have been having all these really delicious moments with my, with my, with my kids lately. Um, I almost said friends, but yes, also my friends. Um, my kids are my friends. Um, And we're going to France in like nine days, which is why I don't have time for a last minute, six hour trip.
Eva: Oh my God.
That's a nine days. Oh my God.
Kyley: We are not packed. I mean, of course, quite a bull husband has like map. I mean, he has been doing research for months. It is like the most beautifully planned trip, but also our whole plan with traveling kids is like the, the counterbalance of, uh, we have a very thoroughly researched plan and also who knows.
And we're just, of course. And we're like really together, we're like really nail that for travel with our kids. So um, I'm yeah, nine days from now I'm going to be drinking wine, eat croissants, oh my God.
Eva: Love it. Power. Awesome. That's a lot of [01:25:00] things to be listening to my kids
Kyley: speak in their cute little French accents.
Oh my God. So
Eva: birdie goes, look, it's the lock the tail. Oh, my God. Amazing. I'm so excited for you. She goes, Je m'appelle Belle D.
Kyley: Oh, cute.
Eva: Oh, my God. I'm so excited for you and also so jealous because I would love to go to France. Okay. So I'll see you. I'll see you soon, Kyley, for part three. And we love you guys.
If you like this episode, please share it, subscribe, rate, reviews. We would love a review. Do all the things. We love you. And
Kyley: send us more questions because maybe we'll give you a three part series. Yes.
Eva: Bye.